the human experience is entering the
Chapel of sacred mirrors as we speak to
my guest Alison and Alex gray Alex
Alison it’s truly an honor
welcome to hxp a thank you so much so I
just adore your work and where do I
begin
yeah where did you begin when did you
first see it do you think oh it’s been
years I mean at least a decade I mean
I’ve been following it and I just I have
so many questions for both of you let’s
just let’s just dig right in Alex Alison
and either of you can answer this how do
you define creativity I think creativity
and Ken Wilber really said this first
but i intuited it all along creativity
is evolution in our hands
creativity is the basic pulse of the
universe that is living in us as us
creativity is the spark of life and the
spirit that animates the entire cosmos
and it is the what I believe is the
force in consciousness that keeps
renewing itself moment by moment and so
this tendency toward novelty and toward
developing complexity is the
evolutionary process and it is alive in
us and that is creativity but I think
that it’s do you define it as a
masculine male or female type thing it’s
it’s universal creative energy that
means it’s all of the above and none of
the above you know it’s it’s got the
polarity the divine polarity of
masculinity and femininity but the
the creative principle I’d say is beyond
that it’s both it’s non-dual you know
it’s the sense it’s the the the pillar
and the engine of the universe it’s the
it’s what is most often identified with
God the Creator
you know the initiator and the source so
creativity is both a source a supply and
an output you know it’s the it’s the
entire thing its consciousness itself is
the creative impulse and the creative
spirit you know I feel like that’s
what’s living in everything how would
you say would you say that your art or
art evolves consciousness because it
proposes the possibility of realizing
things we may not have and in that way
it enlarges our our context for holding
our own being you can engage the next
stage of your own possibility as a kind
of a carrot on a stick that can compel
you to become a better person that’s the
the trick of really great art is to
become a better person after viewing it
or after creating it you know the kind
of I think of it as a covenant between
the creator and the viewer is this it
creates this possibility where an
energetic spark can pass
you know the divine spark of the
creative spirit alive in great works of
art is like a direct soul transmission
that’s a loop from the from the highest
source I think that’s the most beautiful
representation of what art is that I’ve
ever heard so Alex I mean your it seems
like your work goes a lot into the
spiritual the psychoenergetic the
spiritual energetic system why why
choose to move into this direction well
that is the opportunity to really look
the next stage of our evolution which
would be toward comfort with our own
psychic abilities and with our own
intuition art is it lives in the
swimming pool of the intuition you know
it is that that’s its stuff that’s the
lifeblood you know so we want to open
our third eyes we want to get beyond the
rational we don’t want to go unconscious
and dig down into the swamp of art of
our sort of shadows we want to
acknowledge and and and shine a light on
them but not live in those areas we want
to point higher and by opening our third
eye we’re seeing the possibilities that
exist for us and that it opens us to the
world of visionary light there’s a realm
of luminosity that all clairvoyance talk
about and who are clairvoyance but the
next phase of human evolution you know
these are people who developed other
capacities their visionary physiology
which is withered in most of us
become activated it’s come online and
it’s not always because they’ve become
more spiritually developed but often
times you’ll find in the the training
for a spiritual development from
monkhood of a Buddhist or Christian or
certainly the Jewish and Hindu mystics
have known the same thing that you’ve
come closer to this one source by many
different paths and it the distinctions
begin to blur between the the the one
being you know that it is all one and
it’s luminous you know God enlightens us
so our light body is where the soul kind
of seems more active it seems like
that’s that’s where the psycho plasmic
vapor is pliable it’s plastic and
sculptural we use it it’s our
imagination it’s the body of our
imagination so this body of life is what
the Mystics identify more with that’s
more close to our supreme identity
because it’s in the realm between the
transcendental and the manifest material
it’s that visionary landscape you know
that is our astral body our theory body
our acupuncture meridians and points and
the chakras and Aras and all the various
kinds of lines that move through as the
pulse of life itself you can just
imagine a toroidal field around the body
coming out of our heart you know and
coming out the top of our head and now
to our ass and it just kind of goes
around just like a invisible apple you
know it’s kind of pulses all around us
all the time you know
our hearts send off a shockwave out into
a subtle white out beyond our physical
body eight feet out around us so you
could imagine an 8-foot globe
surrounding your body at all times
that’s what the subtle pulse is sending
off is there is there something that you
would say inspires you the most
Allison and here she says no no no I
would say the same
so you inspire each other no that is my
greatest inspiration and that I probably
was his first student mr. penny I’ve
been a student of Alex for all these
years and I love hearing him talk he’s
such a genius
and thinks very differently than I do in
many ways I mean no but we’ve been
together for over 40 years
it’s Shearer in his studio we went in
art school and we fell in love over LSD
and and the spiritual side of that I
think that was really what connected us
was that we both had had a kind of a god
opening a god awakening God contact
through our sacramental soldiers and
Alex’s first soldier was in my apartment
on my couch so and we got a loft you
know to do our art in together we were
in the same gallery for years and now we
then until we had our own gallery then
we had two galleries in the city we had
Kazem the chapel sacred mirrors gallery
which was really mostly Alex’s most
beloved works and a few of mine thrown
in and then there was the gallery of the
visionary tribe you know that the great
visionary artists that are working today
and some who have passed on but we
showed some wonderful work in a rotating
shows Bridal exhibitions and
so right now we’re you know I project
now is an Theon which is to build the
sanctuary of visionary on that was a
vision that Alex and I had in 1985 on
our first MDMA experience was that we
should build this temple and so ever
since then all all our things like that
have that in mind
I mean sometimes we make art too as
commissions and to sell to people but
all proceeds go toward building this
visionary art sanctuary and now of
course we have a place for it closer
than we’ve ever been we’re here in the
Hudson Valley where we love it and it’s
gorgeous we’re like 1500 feet from
watson river
it’s amazing tidal river and we have
this great and it’s got great train
access and we’ve got this great place
that we’re building and right now we
have a Kickstarter ongoing which I’m so
glad you invited us to do a new show to
just tell people to go to build and
beyond calm it’s an easy easy access to
our Kickstarter page which is blowing up
my friend Xavier and I’m so guess who
gave us a great big tweet today Sean
Lennon and he’s you know biggest donor
he’s huge he’s loving us I wish I want
to meet Sean Lennon anyway but he gave
us a tweet today that he loves our
projects so check out build and
beyond.com
that’s really important to us that that
we finish building this exhibition you
see this is going to help us to build so
that everybody can come and the work is
on view instead of in storage
Alex’s beautiful sacred mirrors and all
those amazing works of art and the
originals by many visionary artists the
greatest originals by the greatest
visionary artists working today and have
passed will be shown in the first
gallery you walk into the Magi gallery
the mystic artists guild international
the mystic artists that the people who
bring the gifts you know they bring the
gifts to the to
to the God contact you know and that’s a
lot of people who come here to cause
them for many programs and we’ve got a
wedding this weekend we are having
Mother’s Day we always have things going
on here but anyway and you can find it
at Kazem stands for chapels sacred years
so people come here it should be
uplifted you know to be inspired by with
the art of Alex gray as a context
it just happens to draw people I mean I
really want you to tell us Xavier I’m
really serious about this do you
remember the first time you ever saw the
work of art of Alex trade you out do you
remember where it was we showed it to
you I mean it had to be in the late late
90s and I think it was unlike anything
I’ve ever seen it remains that and it’s
influenced so much of my life and just
looking at it it and it really it really
seems to capture the essence of not only
in the space but the spiritual space the
space that exists between us that we
don’t usually see well I wondered if it
was your friend do you think or do you
think it was your parents or did you
just see it sitting on a coffee table
was it a poster in somebody’s room or
you just really have no recollection of
that I honestly don’t have any records
recollection of that so interesting
because I asked a lot of people that
question it and and I often find that
the people remember where they saw it
and it was somehow a bridge it was
somehow a connector like it connected
them with something familiar something
that they felt and if somebody was
really turned off to it that said
something about them and if somebody was
really turned on to it that said
something else about them and so I feel
like that’s what Alex’s work provides
and why it’s an attractor and so in in
that we know that people really want to
see the work most people always haven’t
and asked to see it so
we thought why don’t we just offer it to
the public instead of keeping it for
them you know in private collectors
homes and things then there’s many of
those too I mean there are many of Alex
pace works things out disseminating and
seizing the world
yay so that you know people can we can
create a temple so that we can get all
back here and build a Theon so Alison
since I have your attention here I mean
you have said that your art has been
based on three root symbol systems chaos
order and secret writing all right what
what are these symbol systems and how do
they relate to your creative process
well when I was uh you know I started
tripping on it on LSD when I was 17 so
but then by the time I was uh 20 I read
ROM dasa’s be here now and I was you
know when I was tripping before that I
was going to parties and going on
bicycle trips and going walking up the
Rocky Mountains things like that and
having wonderful times apart isn’t
probably really spiritually developing
myself and growing but by the time I got
to rhom dasas book be here now he talks
about going into a dark room and lie
down peacefully with maybe some
spiritual or ambient music and going
deep inside with that experience and so
that was the first time I did that it
was before I met Alex and I saw the
secret writing and I saw the secret
writing all over the walls and all
washing over my body and over the body
of my two friends I was doing this way
and I always remembered that it was
unpronounceable and enigmatic but I knew
the meaning I had this intuitive sense
of the meaning being creative
manifestation this is the way we this is
where artists communicate they
communicate through symbols there are
symbol makers and as extension musicians
are giving a feeling or are resonating
with it with through a language that
is unpronounceable it is inexplicable we
try to put it in words maybe we write
poetry about it but it’s but it’s
inexplicable there’s something connected
about the creative process so anyway
that was the first secret writing and in
subsequent journeys I heard that all
things were chaos order and secret
writing and chaos is order plus entropy
it is the world of the material it is
the broken world where all things are
made of different things you know we’re
all made of atoms but we’re all
different there’s all these differences
between us between hardwood and my skin
and anyway and then there’s a and that’s
chaos it’s all falling apart in this
beautiful spectral way so the order is
that is a these fountains and drains the
suck holes and blow holes of the bliss
realm if we if you have ever done a
sacrament or had a mystical experience
you might have seen vistas of these
roiling unites you know universal mind
lattices as Alex paints them you know
those kinds of roiling and
interconnected light so that is my
symbol for that which is inexplicable
and that is and I call it order and
that’s my man Dalek image and sometimes
small fields of mandalas and the secret
writing is the creative manifestation we
have inner thoughts you know from the
divine I believe that they come in
through the divine and they manifest as
things out in the chaos world out in the
material world through symbols all of
them through the window of my secret
language the my mouth noises that I’m
making right now to you you can
translate them that you understand
because we understand the same symbols
if I was speaking Chinese what I was
saying would not come through as meaning
for you so this is these are all symbols
and we manifest our creativity and
communicate through symbols so that’s I
felt that the work that the
that worldview was so profoundly
download for me that I did not need to
look further than that for my content
and I’ve done work around castle or
secret writing since I met Alex 1975
when my work changed dramatically
I mean radically and how would you how
would you say that you and Alex kind of
vibe together when it comes to your
creative space you say something about
have you thought oh I think we’re it’s
so rare that we’re outside of each
other’s creative energy field actually
the in in a lot of ways whatever each
one of us is going through internally
it’s pretty often out there in our
creative plasma field you know and we
have to so we’re we’re both always
conscious of a purse of our own personal
transformation day-to-day in our
communication with each other and
learning how to become better people you
know in relation to each other I think
that’s the profound gift of relationship
and a long-term relationship is that
you’re allowed to know someone for
decades
it’s a privilege you know to maintain a
friendship and it’s also I think it
sometimes more challenging than other
times but then sometimes it’s like
you’re on a toboggan you know that is
such a thrill ride you know to be I feel
like that guy at the end of that philip
k dick you know where the things we’ve
seen together you know on other planets
like in Burning Man and
my areas gonna be a burning man this
year too so anybody who wants to come to
Burning Man and be with the cause of
camp it’s also gonna be the maps camp
yeah and it’s also going to be the
broader foam baby listen I wanted to say
something about our journey together
Alex and I we chose this path
consciously and not everybody would
choose such a path and people have
wonderful relationships in very
different ways like you know like
commuter relationships that sometimes
work perfectly for people so we’re all
about whatever works for each individual
I wanted to just tell your listeners
though that you know a young couple went
to the Buddha and they said we love each
other so much and we don’t like to even
be a part and and like we’re so scared
and worried about what’s gonna happen
one day one of us is going to die and
then the other one’s going to be left
and it concerns us and the Buddha said
to them if you walk the path in the same
way it’s a possibility then you could
come back in the next lifetime as one
person and if you came back in the next
lifetime as one person I was thinking
and Alex was thinking you know and you
loved each other as much as you know we
loved each other but both hemispheres
both hard drives were in the same body
you would love yourself like a Buddha
you would like be a burst Buddha you
would like love yourself entirely like
Buddha and Christ it and you could come
back as a Buddha so Alex and I have set
that intention that he’s look you know
the whole thing about the better half
it’s just it just true
that’s all Alex I love it
what I have to learn and I have what he
has to learn and so being together is a
not always easy but it is easy it’s so
delicious is what it really is and
you’re even going through stuff is
delicious because we get better we just
get better that’s all so yeah my friend
tell us more what do you want to know
about what I know what you want to know
that’s
no no it’s the other way around us I’m
here every day
okay so so Alex I’ve been everyone I’ve
talked to has asked me to ask you about
this if I don’t ask you about this I
don’t know what’s gonna happen to me
your your work has graced the album
covers of so many bands but especially
tool and 10,000 days album how did that
collaboration come about why do you
think that image resonates with so many
people well it’s really interesting I
think that the origins of it being on
the album were all the way back in
probably 2002 when Adam and I were
working on the parabola ending and since
I was working on that video with them
and having a lot of fun getting my first
opportunity to do storyboards and
animation and work with really talented
computer graphic artists and stuff they
gave me that opportunity early on Adam
did and so the at that time I was just
beginning the drawings the first
drawings for the painting that became
net of being and it was based on a
ayahuasca experience that I had had that
year and the lateralis had just come out
the previous year so we were still in a
kind of glowy state from that and it was
that I think big boost because look my
work is not what you’d call mainstream
in the contemporary art sense and so the
alternatives for artists who find
themselves in such a space or you know I
mean I was kind of going it on my own
and doing the
we published books you know in 1990
sacred mares came out and then other
philosophical reflections the mission of
art and then transfigurations and so
then we started working with two or more
and so then and Adam gave me the
opportunity to do stage sets and you
know just propose ideas and the ones
that he liked you know we he went with
so I showed him those early drawings
about the net of being and we both
looked at each other and thought because
we were doing the computer animation
someday we’ve got to animate this
someday we’ve got to make that space
come to life mm-hmm so it but it was
years that I’ve been painting on the
thing and so in I don’t know what was it
2006 he got ahold of me and it was we
have this concept that is these 3d
glasses that go with it’s like the
old-time kind of 3d photography and it
was something that Adam had been into
for many years like a decade or more
he’d been taking 3d photographs and so
he had this idea that he could make it
into a CD and it would be a way that you
can’t just download that they made an
object that people wanted to own and it
was ingenious really it won a Grammy
just as a package idea and and the art
was part of it too because we had a lot
of different you know like ideas he was
saying well what do you think we could
do with this thing this 3d thing so I
had a whole bunch of propositions and
then said I just showed him a picture of
what I was working on and it was the net
of being I’m forgotten I had shown him
that and he said that’s it that’s it and
so that put it on the album cover and
immediately I saw oh my god we could put
the glasses over the hand of the thing
and it had just be like it was made for
it and so
it just became the cover immediately and
it wasn’t even done it was just like
okay you know and but reduce like like
seven inches or something you can’t
really tell this and but then it got
into posters and all kinds of stuff so
it became one of the most famous
unfinished meanings of all but it will
be very much featured an NP on it’ll be
like right behind the stage it’s going
to be basically the backdrop for the
stage but an Theon is what we’re working
on now but I want to just say Alex
hasn’t done a lot of album covers
because Alex and I both I think together
are very discerning about whose work
uses you know your art and over the
years it really hasn’t been that many
and probably less now but but to have
tool involved I mean has been an
incredible experience and it’s helped to
bring Alex’s work to millions of people
and we’re very very grateful and at NC
on we’re having a tool shrine we have so
many the tool army wanted a shrine for
tools so we’re like putting one in our
reliquary room we have a reliquary room
with these psychedelic heroes and the
tool shrine and altars and things like
that so it’ll be really cool you know
we’d hope to open at like 2017 so we
have a little ways to go but we’re
giving tours at every after every Archer
we still take people into the
construction zone and show them what
everything’s gonna be we’re very excited
I think I’m gonna have to make a trip up
there I’m in Florida Central Florida
Central Florida Gainesville as we go to
Gainesville at the University of Florida
that’s you do I’m actually into quite a
bit really yes we should there they have
the art and healing center you know they
they’re medical school is one of the
earliest art therapies place mache
the Shands Hospital they are all about
art therapy and we’ve been down there
doing with our daughter when she was
young doing performances that were
commissioned by the Shands you know by
that art yelling yeah shanz is huge and
games Rockwood lame that’s her name Mary
Rockford Lane she’s she I mean if it
weren’t for these people you wouldn’t
even know about our therapy it’s it’s
amazing Hospital Gainesville
yeah and then you’ve got Mickey singer
down there he’s just like teach the a
lot in Alachua Florida uh-huh yeah I’ve
met Mickey gone to his temple the
universe and so we need to enact
obviously I need to meet you guys so
okay getting back to getting back to
some of the questions I have for this
interview Alex your work seems to have
an interest in both the scientific and
artistic side of life and your earlier
work seemed to focus more on death and
transcendence and why do you think your
early work did that it’s probably the
protracted ego death you know like the
long squeal of the pig as it dies
tendency to be depressed so I’ll just
tell you this when he first met Indiana
had a side he had made called suicide
theater and I was really worried about
what he might do to himself but he has
transcended that and has worked on that
I think it’s but it is a tendency of
yours well you know I was wondering
because that whole story with the Buddha
you know I guess what do you do with the
shadow right what are we saying about
spiritual leaders that they have no
shadow
isn’t that like unrealistic isn’t that
just completely bogus and isn’t that
what they always do is that they make
the the spiritual leader somehow in
humans somehow without a shadow
which is whatever which is what the
shadow wants you to think that II only
you have you know only you have that
anchor of depression or or psychosis or
whatever is your you know anchor oh and
so but that’s your ego that’s your
shadow and I I think that what it is is
your great teacher you know you have to
look at it as a kind of a both a teacher
but also it’s not the witness it’s not
the truly who you are it’s kind of the
reflections in the mirror and not the
mirror itself so the the sky is watching
a cloud instead of the you know the the
frantic cloud worrying because it’s
dissolving you know I think that the to
identify more with the context of cosmic
being and of being beyond time is what
spirit and the higher sacred arts have
always pointed toward so they plot they
point toward the transcendence and I
think that the I was going through the
death part probably always will part of
me you know and I I wear black all the
time you know so you could say I’m in
mourning over the web of life and all of
the the death inadvertent that’s gone to
nature and all the the kind of
unrighteous wars that the humans wage so
it’s you could also say it’s the source
of all creative light is in the
transcendent no thingness so as as a as
a creative entry point the black seems
to work but it’s you could also say it’s
the shadow that you acknowledge exists
but it doesn’t mean that your mind has
the only conditioned by that knowledge
it should be chastened by it should be
enlivened by it because it’s the
contrast to that you know it’s the we
are alive now that unites us you know
that’s a beautiful and and it’s only so
treasured because it’s so impertinent
and so because of that treasured
preciousness of each moment you know
that that music and art can excel or the
look of a beloved you know and the
compassion and a stranger’s eyes a smile
all of those things you know the sunset
these these things are the things that
God gives us as these little treasures
and little gems each day that we life’s
worth it you know life’s beautiful
life’s an affirmation and so our lives
and consciousness together are the we’re
I think real creativity and
transformation lives I mean is that why
you spent so much time at Harvard
Medical School studying cadavers well I
think that I had to understand the
substructure of consciousness which is
the vehicle the black box of the body
and because the body decays and is is
made up of composite things you know and
and deconstruct it’s it’s a kind of
mechanics but I don’t believe that
that’s what our self is limited to where
do you see the consciousness of the
planet today in society today and where
do you believe it’s going I think that
we’re at this point of the need for
breakthrough and the tremendous
frustration of massive numbers of people
and suffering
of massive numbers of people and so that
the cry of both the wife web and the
human web is a almost overwhelming pain
that most people take antidepressants
not to feel and so the the numbing of
our consciousness is the other aspect
that is kind of the collective shadow so
I feel like there are many spirits and
forces clashing as we evolve our
consciousness and part of our tribe and
especially the the 20-somethings and
even before the teens they get it
immediately there isn’t any tolerance of
it’s why bernie is so favored
by the young people there they’re
intolerant of and they want to
hear ideals articulated vision
articulated people who still are alive
to the possibility of vision that that
can help us survive the tight spots to
come because we have to plan for
overarching survival we have to get off
our addiction to oil we have to find the
new energy source and start to wind down
the outworn nuclear facilities and we
have to get independent kind of solar
and the solar technologies out as soon
as possible would you say that people
are hungry for mystical experiences I
think that it’s in all of our souls and
at this point because of our immersion
in the materialism that we yearn for
like I did that one day when I dared
God to show me a sign before I succumb
to my own you know sort of
self-destruction and I it was kind of a
dare in the same way I think that the
soul of every person that still alive to
the possibility of love they yearn for a
source of love that is infinite and is
is a source that unites all life and the
scientists are not saying it doesn’t
exist they point to the unity of things
they point to a source point and to a
United field so I think that the
intuition of the mystic and the book and
the lover is close to the pulse of life
and that that affirmation of the beauty
of life in the truth of life and
goodness of life is what art is most
righteously about and that’s how it
serves the the spirit is this why you
would say that your art is so immersive
so visceral that perhaps you’re relying
this sort of significance to the divine
and transmitting it into the people who
see it your other work is both cerebral
and ethereal it’s from another world it
comes from the inner experience and I
think that when Alex’s earliest studies
were about the body it’s true and he was
a medical illustrator for a gig solid 12
years where he supported Zenon and I as
I was not I was only working with Alex
on his work you know and so basically
was one income of medical illustration
that was doing it and then the paintings
that we were selling some of them we had
shows and things but still her good 12
15 years ago it’s studied the body and
was made
his life but you know I mean more and
more his work is more about the the
ephemeral I mean I’m looking around the
gallery in the studio right now and I
don’t see any works of art in this room
that have anatomy and anymore there’s
one and the other one the Xena vision
has Anatomy and I think it’s it’s it’s
something that you know how to to use
and and taught yourself like that like a
fabulous part of your house you know
like you know all the things that you
know how to do you know how to represent
the body accurately and if people are
gonna use the body and their art they
can use the figure in their art I think
you use the face and their art they need
to you know we have a confident approach
to that not everybody has to do it
through Anatomy not everybody has to
understand you know the anatomy to do it
but the conferring approach has to be
evident yeah well we’ve become a lot
more comfortable in seeing the sort of
underlayment of the physical body what’s
under the skin you know because of the
bodies exhibition and things like this
and so it’s more part of and even the
shows that are on television that show
us you know cadavers now we’re seeing
this and now we’re seeing surgery and
now we’re seeing more familiarity with
the body so over the years when I first
was presenting these life-sized sort of
dissections of figures before bodies and
before all those things you know there
was practically a physical discomfort
with people and seeing these large
flayed kind of figures which I think it
at this point is is not so much you know
because oh we know it’s a painting and
that’s a painting of a decent painting
of a you know our head
commercials have spinning you know
translucent people so it’s you know and
and and that just wasn’t the way it was
but but I think it it brought it out
into the open and people seeing that I
mean the ISIS is pattern light power you
know it’s it’s they can become more
removes from it as art well I think that
what what the end atomizing of the
figure does is universalize the figure
and rather than focus on what race we
are we’re saying we’re all humans we all
have bodies we all have skeletons you
know it’s why you see x-ray art all over
the world in shamanic art you see a kind
of silhouette and then inside bone like
tracings from Australia to you know the
art of the Anasazi mm-hm so this kind of
skeletor’s ation you’ll see it in
huichol our to the shamanic art is
seeing this kind of x-ray world and
that’s kind of a level of the world of
light that the visionary artists I think
are trying to bring back you know not
just me and not just house and I think
Allison’s work is about right she talks
about her languages first seeing it as
light you know it was light figures you
know but it’s all there and these in
these letters and it’s intelligent you
know that it’s just communicating
something mystery and then but it’s come
from a world of light and they the the
grids of light are you know basically
prismatic representations of what could
be white light fields of
interconnectedness you still have that
right right field because each drawing
things she doesn’t draw she doesn’t
paint every part of her paintings she
leaves a little mote of white so there’s
always a white right field connecting
everything and so there’s to that to the
world of chaos now what are we but light
itself shattered and
various ways you know we’re coming
together we’re falling apart from order
chaos chaos to order and all because
what we say you know be when we say that
we’re getting better we’re getting
better when we say things are getting
worse
its tendency just to make things worse
and to make it come true so you you you
know not that that works all the time
you know not yeah oh gee that’s around
you so that you want it you want to you
know if you want people firmly spire
right if then you have to constantly be
a farming and going forward and so but
anyway that’s just you know advice from
the old people I mean Alex would there
would you say that there was a point in
your life that was the most influential
to your work any period of of life for
you that maybe define the rest you know
I think that the 24 hours really that I
took LSD for the first time and
basically decided that there was a God
and life was worth living I decided to
live that was my rebirth in life I think
that was kind of like your second chance
if you get a if God hears your prayers
and appears to you within 24 hours and
then divine love in the flesh shows up
right there my partner for the next 40
years if you can’t see the sign if you
can’t read the tea leaves I think you’re
pretty dense you know well but let’s say
this let’s say this I think that Alex
you know was uh it gave Alex a content
for his work it gave him what his work
could be about the most important thing
like both of us felt that this was the
most important thing you know next to
fighting each other the the incident and
the what the vision was and seeing it
was the most important and
life changing vision and altered altered
our way of thinking about the world and
God and and everything’s everything
inner and outer so that it gave Alex a
direction and content for his work and
it gave it meaning but I have to say
alex was always a great artist even
before he met me he was famous in high
school he had a show at Columbus Ohio
City Hall when he was in high school a
solo show so this guy made any got a
full scholarship start school so he he
was recognized as an artist because he
is uncompromising and he is on you know
he’s just unstoppable and basically
uncompromising you know works of art
must be you know what he wants them to
be you know what I mean it’s it’s like
he’s been known to wipe out entire areas
after working on them for long periods
of time so he’s always you know always
uncompromising and and sometimes this
work takes a little bit longer because
of that but it’s very very respected
because it’s he always learns about
everything it was work to you know I
mean like everything that’s in there
every symbol it’s in there you’ve
probably read a book about he has a mode
of references around him at all times
so anyway I’m a big big fan you can tell
did you guys get a chance to meet Albert
Hoffman did he come – gasps oh and
numerous occasions we were able to our
daughter had dinner with them when she
was 9 years old and then that was an
Amsterdam and then we met him again a
couple of times but once on his
hundredth birthday yes Alex did his
portrait an important tortured a very
important piece that you could see in an
Theon when we opened it’s called
st. Albert and the LSD revelation
revolution and Albert was a hundred
years old that day 11111 we know it was
at the 11 111 a1 I don’t remember but in
any case he was 100 and he signed the
back of the painting it was on a board
so it was he could sign the back of it
and he made a picture of the molecule on
the back of it so I was no six oh six oh
six that’s when we went to Basel
Switzerland for the world psychedelic
form there’s a lot of interest in in in
this mysterious substance that we call a
sacrament and there are scientists and
sociologists and psychologists and
psychiatrists that are studying it and
now testing it for all kinds of
interesting cures people are finding
incredible success with cluster
headaches related to LSD and all kinds
of other stuff you know they’re doing
the tests of big big universities like
Johns Hopkins and Harvard and Yale and
UCLA and some other one so they’re there
they’re getting like real legit emit
about it all to find out what act what
is the potential of this very strange
and powerful substance that in a minute
and a millionth of a gram has people
feeling that they have had the
experience that is greater and more as
as important of an experience as as the
most experiences important experiences
of their life including very children
and things like that so they put it up
there with those sorts of importance and
why is that and what how can that help
us help us and so you know it can help
us by I hurt by bike by harming us right
we don’t want harm you want harm
reduction so how can we make it so that
it helps us and a lot so a lot of
research for the know about that maps is
the multidisciplinary Association for
psychedelic studies and they’re the guys
that we’re gonna be at Burning Man with
and they have a big speaker series and
in zendo we’re gonna be there this
subverting man did you ever go to
Burning Man my friends have not been to
Burning Man yet it’s on the lists on the
bucket list maybe you should come and
were there I will make a point to
eventually see you guys so we are
running out of time here I I want to ask
each of you kind of if you have one
thing that you could tell a budding
artist someone who’s getting into
drawing painting who admires your work
what would that be well draw everyday
and devote time to this you know don’t
expect a lot of rewards all at once but
really find out why you’re doing it and
do it for your own Souls reasons and if
every if anything becomes successful so
much the better you know and if you find
yourself in the realms of success you
know then you know learn to appreciate
that and Van Gogh has had a I’ve tried
to try to keep a dialogue with your your
family of artists you know like learn
who your tribe is and they may be living
or dead you know and hopefully they’re
both you know you’re part of a wave so
get in touch with the wave and get in
touch with the people who are doing work
that is similar to yours wedding artist
should check out how they can study with
Alex tonight and it’s all at Casa morg
we teach we have two classes coming up
in July and there’s lots of ways to
interact we have wonderful artists that
come here man to say just taught a
workshop here and has another one coming
up so I would just like to say one other
thing before we close that is to
everybody in this family everybody
that’s out there listening into your
savior may any merit generated by our
gather and be dedicated to the benefit
and liberation of all beings yeah I love
it
you guys are truly amazing Alison tell
us a little bit more about NT on this
project that is coming
where people can find the Kickstarter
all
nc on.com we created a special page so
that you can just go to build anything
an icon takes you right to our
Kickstarter page we are blowing right up
my friends please get joined right on
we’ve got some fantastic tool brand new
and unique exclusive rewards and and and
then when you come here you can say I
helped build this temple spot and you
can tell your children that you helped
build this temple it’s gonna be around
for a thousand years unless somebody you
know knocks it down and stand there for
a thousand years as it’s gonna be
beautiful we’re gonna get us we’re gonna
get all the way there we’re gonna get
all the sculptures on there it’s gonna
cost us though and it’s and you know
building a temple is the work of a
community so that’s why we’re doing that
because this is the visionary art tribe
and anybody who loves the vision and the
visionary art can come around and help
us even at the lowest level your
contribution really helps our campaign
because it’s like blows up more and more
people are participating and we have
some low medium and high and you know
rewards we got original art and there
people are looking for art by Alex gray
they’re you know we’re like putting it
up there so and I got some pieces and so
the visionary our tribe they’ve they’ve
been coming out they were they’re
donating their art their original art
and there’s G clays and their limited
editions they’re you know you’ll see
them there’s a whole scroll and then we
just sold a I can say this cuz it’s a
campaign we just sold and I think it was
a nineteen thousand dollar banjo no
thirteen thirteen thousand dollar banjo
functional glass baby what’s the fun
back and functional and banjo you if you
don’t know he is the biggest flash
artist functional glass artist one of
those really hot and he put his piece up
there for our Kickstarter and it just
sold today really yes indeed dude so
play play play play full out we love to
have
be part of the campaign that’s a great
meeting smaller awards and and that come
to Qasim yeah we got Mother’s Day if
you’re in the area we’ve got you know
Alex and I teaching the visionary art
intensive for the 27th summer come and
be in our class if you’re an artist Lee
you want to study with this man and his
muse come to the Omega visionary art
intensive it’s it’s a five-day
experience of fun and love with lots and
lots of visionary artists that’s where
we want you to be this July with us
so exactly that’s every well what did it
Alex is one more thing Friday Friday
we’re gonna be the alchemists kitchen if
anybody hears this before Friday Friday
night we’re gonna pounce and I are doing
our blended talk the inevitable
consequence of love and we’re talking
about it at the alchemists kitchen in
New York City it’s a great new space in
New York City and you gotta find it and
you gotta come and see us
what date is that on is that this
kitchen Savior is that the Friday the
sixth tomorrow okay tomorrow there might
be a little bit early cool I just I
really want to thank you both for your
the work all the work that you’ve done
for being here your energy is amazing
this is the most fun that I’ve had with
an episode in a long time and I just I
bow to you know kind of your legacy it
it’s truly your vibe the energy it’s
beautiful thank you guys both so much
for being here thank you so much