Episode 56 – Alex Grey & Allyson Grey

welcome to the human experience podcast the only podcast designed to fuse your left and right brain hemispheres and feed it the most entertaining and mentally engaging topics on the planet as we approach our ascent please make sure your frontal temporal and occipital lobes are in their full upright position as you take your seats consciousness relax your senses and allow us to take you on a chip we are the intimate strangers thank you

for listening the human experience is entering the Chapel of sacred mirrors as we speak to my guest Alison and Alex gray Alex Alison it’s truly an honor welcome to hxp a thank you so much so I just adore your work and where do I begin yeah where did you begin when did you first see it do you think that’s it’s been years I mean at least a decade I mean I’ve been following it and I just I have so many questions for both of you let’s just let’s just dig right in

Alex Alison and either of you can answer this how do you define creativity I think creativity and Ken Wilber really said this first but i intuited it all along creativity is evolution in our hands creativity is the basic pulse of the universe that is living in us as us creativity is the spark of life and the spirit that animates the entire cosmos and it is the what I believe is the force in consciousness that keeps renewing itself moment by moment and so

this tendency toward novelty and toward developing complexity is the evolutionary process and it is alive in us and that is creativity but I think that it’s do you define it as a masculine male or female type thing it’s it’s universal creative energy that means it’s all of the above and none of the above you know it’s it’s got the polarity the divine polarity of masculinity and femininity but the the creative principle I’d say is beyond

that it’s both it’s non dual you know it’s the sense it’s the the the pillar and the engine of the universe it’s the it’s what is most often identified with God the Creator you know the initiator and the source so creativity is both a source a supply and an output you know it’s the it’s the entire thing its consciousness itself is the creative impulse and the creative spirit you know I feel like that’s what’s living in everything now how

would you say would you say that your art or art evolves consciousness because it proposes the possibility of realizing things we may not have and in that way it enlarges our our context for holding our own being you can engage the next stage of your own possibility as a kind of a carrot on a stick that can compel you to become a better person that’s the the trick of really great art is to become a better person after viewing it

or after creating it you know the kind of I think of it as a covenant between the creator and the viewer is this it creates this possibility where an energetic spark can pass you know the divine spark of the creative spirit alive in great works of art is like a direct soul transmission that’s a loop from the from the highest source I think that’s the most beautiful representation of what art is that I’ve ever heard so Alex I mean you’re it seems like your

work goes a lot into the spiritual the psychoenergetic the spiritual energetic system why why choose to move into this direction well that is the opportunity to really look the next stage of our evolution which would be toward comfort with our own psychic abilities and with our own intuition art is it lives in the swimming pool of the intuition you know it is that that’s its stuff that’s the lifeblood you know so we want to open

our third eyes we want to get beyond the rational we don’t want to go unconscious and dig down into the swamp of art of our sort of shadows we want to acknowledge and and and shine a light on them but not live in those areas we want to point higher and by opening Arthur I we’re seeing the possibilities that exist for us and that it opens us to the world of visionary light there’s a realm of luminosity that all clairvoyance talk

about and who are clairvoyance but the next phase of human evolution you know these are people who developed other capacities their visionary physiology which is withered in most of us has become activated it’s come online and it’s not always because they’ve become more spiritually developed but oftentimes you’ll find in the the training for a spiritual development from monkhood of a Buddhist or Christian or certainly the Jewish and Hindu

mystics have known the same thing that you come closer to this one source know by many different paths and it the distinctions begin to blur between the the the one being you know that it is all one and it’s luminous you know God enlightens so our light body is where the soul kind of seems more active it seems like that’s that’s where the cytoplasmic vapor is pliable it’s plastic its sculptural we use it it’s our imagination it’s the body of our

imagination so this body of life is what the Mystics identify more with that’s more close to our supreme identity because it’s in the realm between the transcendental and the manifest material it’s that visionary a landscape you know that is our astral body our theory body our acupuncture meridians and points and the chakras and Aras and all the various kinds of lines that move through as the pulse of life itself you can just imagine a toroidal

field around the body coming out of our heart you know and coming out the top of our head and how to our ass and it just kind of goes around us like a invisible Apple you know it’s kind of pulses all around us all the time you know our hearts send off a shock wave out into a subtle white out beyond our physical body eight feet out around us so you could imagine an eight foot globe surrounding your body at all times that’s what the subtle pulse is sending

off is there is there something that you would say inspires you the most Allison and here she says no no I would say the same so you inspire each other no that is my greatest inspiration and that I probably was his first student but I’ve been a student of Alex for all these years and I love hearing him talk he’s such a genius and thinks very differently than I do in many ways I mean no but we’ve been together for over 40 years

it’s sheer in a studio we went in art school and we fell in love over LSD and and the spiritual side of that I think that was really what connected us was that we both had had a kind of a God opening a God awakening God contact his brew our sacramental our soldiers and Alex’s first sojourners in my apartment on my couch so we never parted and we got a loft you know to do our art together we were in the same gallery for years and now we

then get until we had our own gallery then we had two galleries in the city we had Kazem the chapels sacred mirrors gallery which was really mostly Alex’s most beloved works and a few of mine thrown in and then there was the gallery of the visionary tribe you know that the the great visionary artists that are working today and some who have passed on but we showed some wonderful work in a rotating shows incredible exhibitions and so right now we’re you know our

project now is anthe on which is to build the sanctuary of visionary on that was a vision that Alex and I had in 1985 on our first MDMA experience because that we should build this temple and so ever since then all all our things like that have that in mind I mean sometimes we make art too as commissions and to sell to people but all proceeds go toward building this visionary art sanctuary and now of course we have a place for it closer

than we’ve ever been we’re here in the valley where we love it and it’s gorgeous for like 1500 feet from lots of ever it’s amazing tidal river and we have this great and it’s got great train access and we’ve got this great place that we’re building and right now we have a Kickstarter ongoing which I’m so glad you invited us to do a new show to just tell people to go to build and beyond calm it’s an easy easy access to our Kickstarter page which is blowing up

my friend Xavier and I’m so guess who gave us a great big tweet today Sean Lennon and he’s you know biggest donor he’s huge he’s loving us I wish I want to meet Sean Lennon anyway but he gave us a tweet today that he loves our projects so go check out being calm that’s really important to us that that we finish building this exhibition you see this is going to help us to build so that everybody can come and the work is on view instead of in

storage Alexes beautiful sacred mirrors and all those amazing works of art and the originals by many visionary artists the greatest originals by the greatest visionary artists working today and have passed will be shown in the first gallery you walk into the Magi gallery the mystic artists guild international the mystic artists that the people who bring the gifts you know they bring the gifts to the to the to the God contact you know and that’s a lot of people who

come here to cause them for many programs and we’ve got a wedding this weekend we’re having Mother’s Day we always have things going on here but anyway and you can find it at cause and stands for chapels sacred years so people come here it should be uplifted you know to be inspired by with the art of Alex gray as a context it just happens to draw people I mean I really want you to tell us it’s Savior I’m really serious about this do you

remember the first time you ever saw the work of art of Alex trade you out do you remember where it was we showed it to you I mean it had to be in the late late 90s and I think it was unlike anything I’ve ever seen it remains that and it’s influenced so much of my life and just looking at it it and it really it really seems to capture the essence of not only in the space but the spiritual space the space that exists between us that we don’t usually see

well I wondered if it was your friend do you think or do you think it was your parents or did you just see it sitting on a coffee table was it a poster in somebody’s room or you just really have recollection I honestly don’t have any record recollection of that so interesting because I asked a lot of people that question and and I often find that the people remember where they saw it and it was somehow a bridge it was somehow a connector like it

connected them with something familiar something that they felt and if somebody was really turned off to it that said something about them and if somebody was really turned on to it that said something else about them and so I feel like that’s what Alex’s work provides and why it’s an attractor and so in in that we know that people really want to see the work cuz people always have and and asked to see it so we thought why don’t we just offer it to the public

instead of keeping it for them you know and private collectors homes and things then there’s many of those too I mean there are many of Alex pace works that things out disseminating and seizing the world yay so that you know people can we can create a temple so that we can all back here and build up beyond so Alison since I have your attention here I mean you have said that your art has been based on three root symbol systems chaos

order and secret writing alright what what are these symbol systems and how do they relate to your creative process well when I was uh you know I started tripping on it on LSD when I was 17 so but then by the time I was uh twenty I read Ron dasas be here now and I was you know when I was tripping before that I was going to parties and going on bicycle trips and going and walking up the Rocky Mountains things like that and having wonderful times of parties and

probably really spiritually developing myself and growing but by the time I got to round us his book be here now he talks about going into a dark room and lie down peacefully with maybe some spiritual or ambient music and going deep inside without experience and so that was the first time I did that it was before I met Alex and I saw the secret writing and I saw the secret writing all over the walls and all washing over my body

and over the body of my two friends I was doing this way and I always remembered that it was unpronounceable and enigmatic but I knew the meaning I had this intuitive sense of the meaning being creative manifestation this is the way we this is the way artists communicate they communicate through symbols there are symbol makers and as extension musicians are giving a feeling or are resonating with that with through a language that is unpronounceable that

is inexplicable we try to put it in words maybe we write poetry about it but it’s but it’s inexplicable there’s something connected about the the creative process so anyway that was the first secret writing and in subsequent journeys I heard that all things were chaos order and secret writing and chaos is order plus entropy it is the world of the material it is the broken world where all things are made of different things you know we’re all made of atoms

but we’re all different there’s all these differences between us between a hardwood and my skin and anyway and then there’s a and that’s chaos it’s all falling apart of this beautiful spectral way so the order is that is a these fountains and drains the suck holes and blow holes of the bliss realm if we if you have ever done a sacrament or had a mystical experience you might have seen vistas of these roiling unites you know universal mind lattices as Alex paints

them you know those kinds of roiling and interconnected light so that is my symbol for that which is inexplicable and that is and I call it order and that’s my man Dalek and sometimes small fields of mandalas and the secret writing is the creative manifestation we have inner thoughts you know from the divine I believe that they come in through the divine and they manifest as things out in the chaos world out in the material world through

symbols all of them through the window of my secret language the might my mouth noises that I’m making right now to you you can translate and that you understand because we understand the same symbols if I was speaking Chinese what I was saying would not come through as meaning for you so this is these are all symbols and we manifest our creativity and communicate through symbols so that’s I felt that the work that that worldview was so profoundly

download for me that I did not need to look further than that for my content and I’ve done work around chaos or secret writing since I met Alex 1975 when my work changed dramatically I mean radically and how would you how would you say that you and Alex kind of vibe together when it comes to your creative space you say something about have you thought oh I think we’re it’s so rare that we’re outside of each other’s creative energy field actually

that in in a lot of ways whatever each one of us is going through internally it’s pretty often out there in our creative plasma field you know and we have to so we’re we’re both always conscious of a person of our own personal transformation day to day in our communication with each other and learning how to become better people you know in relation to each other I think that’s the profound gift of relationship and a long-term

relationship is that you’re allowed to know someone for decades it’s a privilege you know to maintain a friendship and it’s also I think it sometimes more challenging than other times but then sometimes it’s like you’re on a toboggan you know that is such a thrill ride you know to be I feel like that guy at the end of that philip k dick you know where the things we’ve seen together you know on other planets like in Burning Man and that so anybody

who wants to come to Burning Man and be with the cause of camp it’s also gonna be the maps camp yeah and it’s also going to be the broader foam baby listen I wanted to say something about our journey together Alex and I we chose this path consciously and not everybody would choose such a path and people have wonderful relationships in very different ways like you know like commuter relationships that sometimes work perfectly for people so we’re all

about whatever works for each individual I wanted to just tell your listeners though that you know a young couple went to the Buddha and they said we love each other so much and we don’t like to even be apart and and like we’re so scared and worried about what’s going to happen one day one of us is going to die and then the other one’s going to be left and it concerns us and the Buddha said to them if you walk the path in the same

way it’s a possibility then you could come back in the next lifetime as one person and if you came back in the next lifetime as one person I was thinking and Alex was thinking you know and you loved each other as much as you know we loved each other but both hemispheres both hard drives were in the same body you would love yourself like a Buddha you would like be a burst boot you would like love yourself entirely like Buddha and Christ did and you could

come back as a Buddha so Alex and I have set that intention that he’s look you know the whole thing about the better half it’s just it just true that’s all I love it what I have to learn and I have what he has to learn and so being together is uh not always easy but it is easy it’s so delicious is what it really is and even going through stuff is delicious because we get better we just get better at something so my friend tell us more what do you want to know

about no no it’s the other way around actually I’m here every day okay so so Alex I’ve been everyone I’ve talked to has asked me to ask you about this if I don’t ask you about this I don’t know what’s gonna happen to me your your work has graced the album covers of so many bands but especially tool and 10,000 days problem how did that collaboration come about why do you think that image resonates with so many people well it’s really interesting I

think that the origins of it being on the album were all the way back in probably 2002 when Adam and I were working on the parabola ending and since I was working on that video with them and having a lot of fun getting my first opportunity to do storyboards and animation and work with really talented computer graphic artists and stuff they gave me that opportunity early on Adam did and so the at that time I was just beginning the drawings the first

drawings for the painting that became net of being and it was based on ayahuasca experience that I had had that year and the lateralis had just come out the previous year so we were still in a kind of glowy state from that and it was that I think big boost because look my work is not what you’d call mainstream in the contemporary art sense and so the alternatives for artists who find themselves in such a space or you know I mean I was kind of going it on my own

and doing the we published books you know in 1990 sacred mares came out and then other philosophical reflections the mission of art and then transfigurations and so then we started working with two or more and so that and Adam gave me the opportunity to do stage sets and you know just propose ideas and the ones that he liked you know we he went with so I showed him those early drawings about the net of being and we both looked at each other and thought because

we were doing the computer animation someday we’ve got to animate this someday we’ve got to make that space come to life so it but it was years that I’ve been painting on the thing and so in I don’t know what was a 2006 he got ahold of me and it was we have this concept that is these 3d glasses that go with it’s like the old-time kind of 3d photography and it was something that Adam had been into for many years like a decade or more he’d been taking 3d

photographs and so he had this idea that he could make it into a CD and it would be a way that you can’t just download that they made an object that people wanted to own and it was ingenious really it won graeme just as a package idea and and the art was part of it too because we had a lot of different you know like ideas he was saying well what do you think we could do with this thing this 3d thing so I had a whole bunch of propositions and then said I just showed

him a picture of what I was working on and it was the net of being I’m forgotten I had shown him that and he said that’s it and so that put it on the album cover and immediately I saw oh my god we could put the glasses over the head of the thing and it just feel like it was made for it and so it just became the cover immediately and it wasn’t even done it was just like okay you know and reduce like seven inches or something you can’t really tell this and but then

it got into posters and all kinds of stuff so it became one of the most famous unfinished meanings of all but it will be very much featured an NP on it’ll be like right behind the stage it’s gonna be basically the backdrop for the stage but an Theon is what we’re working on now but I want to just say Alex hasn’t done a lot of album covers because Alex and I both I think together are very discerning about whose work uses your you know your art and so over

the years it really hasn’t been that many and probably less now but but to have tool involved I mean has been an incredible experience and it’s helped to bring Alex’s work to millions of people and we’re very very grateful and at NC on were having a tool shrine we have so many the tool army wanted a shrine for tools so we’re like putting one in our reliquary room we have a reliquary room with these psychedelic heroes and and and it’s cool shrine and altars and

things like that so it’ll be really cool you know we’d hope to open like 2017 so we have a little ways to go but we’re giving tours at every after every Archer we still take people into the construction zone and show them what everything’s gonna be we’re very excited I think I’m gonna have to make a trip up there I’m in Florida Central Florida Central Florida Gainesville as we go to gauge so a lot the University of Florida that’s you do I’m actually into quite a

bit really yes we should is there they have the art and healing center you know they they’re medical school is one of the earliest art therapy place to shams the shams they are all about art therapy and we’ve been down there doing leave with our daughter when she was young doing performances that were commissioned by the Shands you know by that art yiling yeah shanz is huge and games Rockwood Lane that’s her name Mary Rockford Lane she’s she I mean if it

weren’t for these people you wouldn’t even know about our therapy it’s amazing Hospital getting to Gainesville oh yeah and then you’ve got Mickey singer down there he’s just like the a lot in Alachua Florida huh yeah I’ve met Mickey gone to his temple the universe and so we need to enact obviously I need to meet you guys so okay getting back to getting back to some of the questions I have for this interview Alex your work seems to have an interest in both the

scientific and artistic side of life and your earlier work seemed to focus more on death and transcendence and why do you think your early work did that it’s probably the protracted egodeath you know like the long squeal of the pig as it dies has a tendency to be depressed so I’ll just tell you this when he first met him he had a had a side he had made called suicide theater and I was really worried about what he might do to himself but he

has transcended that and has worked on that I think it’s but it is a tendency of yours well you know I was wondering because that whole story with the Buddha you know I guess what do you do with the shadow right what are we saying about spiritual leaders that they have no shadow isn’t that like unrealistic isn’t that just completely bogus and isn’t that what they always do is that they make the the spiritual leader somehow inhuman

somehow without a shadow which is whatever which is what the shadow wants you to think that only you have you know only you have that anchor of a depression or or psychosis or whatever is your you know anchor oh so but that’s your ego that’s your shadow and I I think that what it is is your great teacher you know you have to look at it as a kind of a both a teacher but also it’s not the witness it’s not the truly who you are it’s kind of the reflections

in the mirror and not the mirror itself so the the sky is watching a cloud instead of the you know the the frantic cloud worrying because it’s dissolving you know I think that the to identify more with the context of cosmic being and of being beyond time is what spirit and the higher sacred arts have always pointed toward so they plot they point toward the transcendence and I think that the I was going through the death part probably always will part of me you

know and I wear black all the time you know so you could say I’m in mourning over the web of life and all of the the death inadvertent that’s gone to nature and all the the kind of unrighteous wars that the humans wage so it’s you could also say it’s the source of all creative light is in the transcendent no thingness so as as a as a creative entry point the black seems to work but it’s you could also say it’s the shadow that you acknowledge exists but it doesn’t

mean that your mind has to be only conditioned by that knowledge it should be chastened bind it should be enlivened by it because it’s the contrast to that you know it’s the we are alive now that unites us you know that’s a beautiful and and it’s only so treasured because it’s so impertinent and so because of that treasured preciousness of each moment you know that that music and art can excel or the look of a beloved you know and the compassion and a stranger’s

eyes a smile all of those things you know the sunset these these things are the things that God gives us as these little treasures and little gems each day that we life’s worth it you know life’s beautiful life’s an affirmation and so our lives and consciousness together are the we’re I think real creativity and transformation lives I mean is that why you spent so much time at Harvard Medical School studying cadavers well I think that I had to

understand this structure of consciousness which is the vehicle the black box of the body and because the body decays and is is made up of composite things you know and and deconstruct it’s it’s a kind of mechanics but I don’t believe that that’s what our self is limited to where do you see the consciousness of the planet today in society today and where do you believe it’s going I think that we’re at this point of the need for

breakthrough and the tremendous frustration of massive numbers of people and suffering of massive numbers of people and so that the cry of both the life web and the human web is a almost overwhelming pain that most people take antidepressants not to feel and so the the numbing of our consciousness is the other aspect that is kind of the collective shadow so I feel like there are many spirits and forces clashing as we evolve our consciousness and part of

our tribe and especially the the 20-somethings and even before the teens they get it immediately there isn’t any tolerance of it’s why bernie is so favored by the young people there they’re intolerant of and they want to hear ideals articulated vision articulated people who still are alive to the possibility of vision that that can help us survive the types thoughts to come because we have to plan for overarching survival we have to get off our addiction to oil we

have to find the new energy source and start to wind down the outworn nuclear facilities and we have to get independent kind of solar and the solar technologies out as soon as possible would you say that people are hungry for mystical experiences I think that it’s in all of our souls and at this point because of our immersion in the materialism that we earn for like I did that one day when I dared God to show me a sign before I succumb to my own you

know sort of self-destruction and I it was kind of a dare in the same way I think that the soul of every person that still alive to the possibility of love they yearn for a source of love that is infinite and is is a source that unites all life and the scientists are not saying it doesn’t exist they point to the unity of things they point to a source point and to a United field so I think that the intuition of the mystic and the book and the lover is close to

the pulse of life and that that affirmation of the beauty of life and the truth of life and goodness of life is what art is most righteously about and that’s how it serves the spirit is this why you would say that your art is so immersive so visceral that perhaps you’re relying this sort of significance to the divine and transmitting it into the people who see it your anatomical work is visceral your other work is is both cerebral and ethereal it’s from

another world it comes from the inner experience and I think that when Alex’s earliest studies were about the body it’s true and he was a medical illustrator for a good solid 12 years where he supported Zenon and I as I was not I was only working with Alex on his work you know and so basically was one income of medical illustration that was doing and then the paintings that we were selling some of them we had shows and things but still her good 12 15

years studied the body and was you know intimated his life but you know I mean more and more as work is more about the the ephemeral I mean I’m looking around the gallery in the studio right now and I don’t see any works of art in this room that have Anatomy and many more oh there’s one and the other one is Univision has Anatomy and I think it’s it’s it’s something that you know how to to use and and taught yourself like you know like a fabulous part of your house

you know like you know of all the things that you know how to do you know how to represent the body accurately and if people are gonna use the body and their art then we use the figure in their art I think you use the face and their art they need to you know we have a confident approach to that not everybody has to do it through Natalie not everybody has to understand you know the anatomy to do it but the conferring of proto chest to be evidencing yeah well

we’ve become a lot more comfortable in seeing the sort of underlayment of the physical body what’s under the skin you know because of the bodies exhibition and things like this and so it’s more part of and even the shows that are on television that show us you know cadavers now we’re seeing this and now we’re seeing surgery and now we’re seeing more familiarity with the body so over the years when I first was presenting these life-sized sort of

dissections of figures before bodies and before all those things you know there was all practically a physical discomfort with people and seeing these large flayed kind of figures which I think it at this point is is not so much you know because oh we know it’s a painting and that’s a painting of a decent painting of a you know our headache commercials have spinning you know translucent people so it’s you know and and that just wasn’t the way it was

but but I think it it brought it out into the open and people see in that item analysis is pattern light power you know it’s it’s they can become more removes from it as art well I think that what what the end atomizing of the figure does is universalize the figure and rather than focus on what race we are we’re saying we’re all humans we all have bodies we all have skeletons you know it’s why you see x-ray art all over the world in shamanic art you see a kind

of silhouette and then inside bone like tracings from Australia to you know the art of the Anasazi so this kind of skeletal ization you’ll see it in huichol art to the shamanic art is seeing this kind of x-ray world and that’s kind of a level of the world of light that the visionary artists I think are trying to bring bad you know not just me and not just house and I think Allison’s work is about right she talks about her languages first seeing it as

light you know it was light figures you know but it’s all there and these in these letters and it’s intelligent you know that it is communicating something mystery and then but it’s come from a world of light and they the the grids of light are you know basically prismatic representations of what could be white light fields of interconnectedness you still have that right right field because each drawing things she doesn’t draw she doesn’t

paint every part of her paintings she leaves a little mote of white so there’s always a white light field connecting everything and so there’s to that to the world of chaos now what are we but light itself shattered in various ways you know we’re coming together we’re falling apart from order chaos chaos to order and all because of what we say you know be when we say that we’re getting better we’re getting better when we say things are getting worse it’s tendency

just to make things worse and to make it come true so you you you know not that that works all the time you know energy that’s around you so that you want it you want to you know if you want people firmly spire right then you have to constantly be affirming and going forward and so but anyway that’s just you know advice from the old people I mean Alex would there would you say that there is a point in your life that was the most influential to your work any

period of of life for you that maybe define the rest you know I think that the 24 hours really that I took LSD for the first time and basically decided that there was a God and life was worth living I decided to live that was my rebirth in life I think that was kind of like your second chance if you get a if God hears your prayers and appears to you within 24 hours and then divine love in the flesh shows up right my partner for the next 40 years if you

can’t see the sign if you can’t read the tea leaves I think you’re pretty dense you know well but let’s say this let’s say this I think that Alex you know was uh it gave Alex a content for his work it gave him what his work could be about the most important thing like both of us felt that this was the most important thing you know next to finding each other the the incident and the what the vision was and seeing it was the most

important and and life-changing vision and altered altered our way of thinking about the world and God and and everything’s everything inner and outer so that I gave Alex a direction and content for his work and gave it meaning but I have to say alex was always a great artist even before he met me he was famous in high school he had a show at the Columbus Ohio City Hall when he was in high school solo show so this guy may any got a full

scholarship to art school so he he was recognized as an artist because he is uncompromising and he is on you know he’s just unstoppable and basically uncompromising you know works of art must be you know what he wants them to be you know and I mean it’s it’s like he’s been known to wipe out entire areas after working on them for long periods of time so he’s always you know always uncompromising and and sometimes this work takes a little bit longer because

of that but it’s very very respected because it’s he always learns about everything in his work too you know I mean like everything that’s in there every symbol it’s in there you probably read a book about he has a mode of references around him at all times so anyway I’m a big big fan you can tell did you guys get a chance to meet Albert Hoffman did he come – gasps oh and numerous occasions we were able to our daughter had dinner with them when she

was 9 years old and then that was an am damn and then we met him again a couple of times but once on his hundredth birthday yes Alex did his portrait an important portrait a very important piece that you could see in an Theon when we opened it’s called st. Albert and the LSD revelation Revolution and Albert was a hundred years old that day 11111 we know it was at the 11one11 oh one I don’t remember but in any case he was 100 and he signed

the back of the painting it was on a board so it was he could sign the back of it and he made a picture of the molecule on the back of it so I was oh six oh six oh six that’s where we went to Basel Switzerland for the world psychedelic form there’s a lot of interest in this mysterious substance that we call a sacrament and there are scientists and sociologists and psychologists and psychiatrists that are studying it and now testing it for all

kinds of interesting cures people are finding incredible success with cluster headaches related to LSD and all kinds of other stuff you know they’re doing the tests of big big universities like Johns Hopkins and Harvard and Yale and UCLA and some other ones so they’re they’re getting like real legitimate about it all to find out what attacked what is the potential of this very strange and powerful substance that it admit and a millionth of a gram has

people feeling that they have had the experience that is greater and more as as important of an experience as as the most experiences important experiences of their life including bearing children and things like that so they put it up there with those sorts of importance and why is that and what how can that help us help us and so you know it can’t help us by I hurt by by by harming us right we don’t want harm you want harm reduction so how can we make it so that

it helps us and lets a lot of research further about that maps is the multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic studies and they’re the guys that we’re gonna be at Burning Man with and they have a big speaker series and sendo we’re gonna be there this sub Burning Man did you ever go to Burning Man myself I have not been to Burning Man yet it’s on the lists on the bucket list you should come and were there I will make a point to eventually see you

guys so we are running out of time here I I want to ask each of you kind of if you have one thing that you could tell a budding artist someone who’s getting into kind of drawing painting who admires your work what would that be well draw everyday and devote time to this you know don’t expect a lot of rewards all at once but really find out why you’re doing it and do it for your own Souls reasons and if every if anything becomes successful so much the

better you know and if you find yourself in the realms of success you you know then you know learn to appreciate that and Van Gogh has had a I’ve tried to try to keep a dialogue with your your family of artists you know like learn who your tribe is and they may be living or dead you know and hopefully they’re both you know you’re part of a wave so get in touch with the way and get in touch with the people who are doing work that is

this similar to yours wedding artists should check out how they can study with Alex tonight and it’s all at Casa morg we teach we two classes coming up in July and there’s lots of ways to interact we have wonderful artists that come here man to say just taught a workshop here and has another one coming up so I would just like to say one other thing before we close that is to everybody in this family everybody that’s out there listening into your savior may any merit

generated by our gather and be dedicated to the benefit and liberation of all beings yeah I love it you guys are truly amazing Allison tell us a little bit more about NT on this project that is coming up where people can find the Kickstarter all day on comm we created a special page so that you can just go to build anything and icon takes you right to our Kickstarter page we are blowing right up my friends please get joined right on we’ve got

some fantastic tool brand new and unique exclusive rewards and and and then when you come here you can say I helped build this temple spot and you can tell your children that you helped build this temple it’s gonna be around for a thousand years unless somebody you know knocks it down and stand there for a thousand years as it’s gonna be beautiful we’re gonna get us we’re gonna get all the way there we’re gonna get all the sculptures on there it’s gonna

cost us though and it’s and you know building a temple is the work of a community so that’s why we’re doing that because this is the visionary art tribe and anybody who loves the vision and the visionary art can come around and help us even at the lowest level your contribution really helps our campaign because it like blows up more and more people are participating and we have some low medium and high and you know rewards we got original art and there

people are looking for art by Alex gray they’re you know we’re like putting it up there so I know I’ve got some pieces and some visionary our tribe they think they’ve been coming out there they’re donating their art their original art and there’s you clays additions there you know you’ll see them there’s a hospital and then we just sold a I can say this cuz it’s a campaign we just sold and I think it was a nineteen thousand dollar banjo no thirteen

thirteen thousand dollar banjo functional blasts baby what’s the fun back in functional and banjo you if you don’t know he is the biggest blast artist functional glass artist one of those really hot and he put his piece up there for our Kickstarter and it just sold today really yes indeed daddy duty so play play play play full out we love to have you be part of the campaign that’s a great feeding small rewards and and that come to Qasim yeah we got

Mother’s Day if you’re in the area we’ve got you know Alex and I teaching the visionary art intensive for the 27th summer come and be in our class if you’re an artist and you want to study with this man and his muse come to the Omega visionary art intensive it’s it’s a five-day experience of fun and love with lots and lots of visionary artists that’s what we want you to be this July with us so it’s that good xav well wouldn’t it Alec says one more thing

Friday Friday we’re gonna be the alchemists kitchen if anybody hears this before Friday Friday night we’re gonna pounce and I are doing our blended talk the inevitable consequence of love and we’re talking about it at the alchemists kitchen in New York City it’s a great new space in New York City and you got to find it and you gotta come and see us what date is that on is that this kitchen Savior is that the Friday the 6th ok tomorrow there might be a little

bit early but in any case our kitchen is full I just I really want to thank you both for your the work all the work that you’ve done for being here your energy is amazing this is the most fun that I’ve had with an episode in a long time and I just I bow to you know kind of your legacy it it’s truly your vibe the energy it’s beautiful thank you guys both so much for for being here thank you so much