welcome to the human experience podcast

the only podcast designed to fuse your

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relax your senses and allow us to take

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we are the intimate strangers thank you

for listening the human experience is

entering the Chapel of sacred mirrors as

we speak to my guest Alison and Alex

gray Alex Alison it’s truly an honor

welcome to hxp a thank you so much so I

just adore your work and where do I

begin

yeah where did you begin when did you

first see it do you think that’s it’s

been years I mean at least a decade I

mean I’ve been following it and I just I

have so many questions for both of you

let’s just let’s just dig right in

Alex Alison and either of you can answer

this how do you define creativity I

think creativity and Ken Wilber really

said this first but i intuited it all

along creativity is evolution in our

hands creativity is the basic pulse of

the universe that is living in us as us

creativity is the spark of life and the

spirit that animates the entire cosmos

and it is the what I believe is the

force in consciousness that keeps

renewing itself moment by moment and so

this tendency toward novelty and toward

developing complexity

is the evolutionary process and it is

alive in us and that is creativity but I

think that it’s do you define it as a

masculine male or female type thing it’s

it’s universal creative energy that

means it’s all of the above and none of

the above you know it’s it’s got the

polarity the divine polarity of

masculinity and femininity but the the

creative principle I’d say is beyond

that it’s both it’s non dual you know

it’s the sense it’s the the the pillar

and the engine of the universe it’s the

it’s what is most often identified with

God the Creator

you know the initiator and the source so

creativity is both a source a supply and

an output you know it’s the it’s the

entire thing its consciousness itself is

the creative impulse and the creative

spirit you know I feel like that’s

what’s living in everything now how

would you say would you say that your

art or art evolves consciousness because

it proposes the possibility of realizing

things we may not have and in that way

it enlarges our our context for holding

our own being you can engage the next

stage of your own possibility as a kind

of a carrot on a stick that can compel

you to become a better person

that’s the

the trick of really great art is to

become a better person after viewing it

or after creating it you know the kind

of I think of it as a covenant between

the creator and the viewer is this it

creates this possibility where an

energetic spark can pass you know the

divine spark of the creative spirit

alive in great works of art is like a

direct soul transmission that’s a loop

from the from the highest source I think

that’s the most beautiful representation

of what art is that I’ve ever heard

so Alex I mean you’re it seems like your

work goes a lot into the spiritual the

psychoenergetic the spiritual energetic

system why why choose to move into this

direction well that is the opportunity

to really look the next stage of our

evolution which would be toward comfort

with our own psychic abilities and with

our own intuition art is it lives in the

swimming pool of the intuition you know

it is that that’s its stuff that’s the

lifeblood you know so we want to open

our third eyes we want to get beyond the

rational we don’t want to go unconscious

and dig down into the swamp of art of

our sort of shadows

we want to acknowledge and and and shine

a light on them but not live in those

areas we want to point higher and by

opening Arthur

I we’re seeing the possibilities that

exist for us and that it opens us to the

world of visionary light there’s a realm

of luminosity that all clairvoyance talk

about and who are clairvoyance but the

next phase of human evolution you know

these are people who developed other

capacities their visionary physiology

which is withered in most of us has

become activated it’s come online and

it’s not always because they’ve become

more spiritually developed but

oftentimes you’ll find in the the

training for a spiritual development

from monkhood of a Buddhist or Christian

or certainly the Jewish and Hindu

mystics have known the same thing that

you come closer to this one source know

by many different paths and it the

distinctions begin to blur between the

the the one being you know that it is

all one and it’s luminous you know God

enlightens so our light body is where

the soul kind of seems more active it

seems like that’s that’s where the

cytoplasmic vapor is pliable it’s

plastic its sculptural we use it it’s

our imagination it’s the body of our

imagination so this body of life is what

the Mystics identify more with that’s

more close to our supreme identity

because it’s in the realm between the

transcendental and the manifest material

it’s that visionary

a landscape you know that is our astral

body our theory body our acupuncture

meridians and points and the chakras and

Aras and all the various kinds of lines

that move through as the pulse of life

itself you can just imagine a toroidal

field around the body coming out of our

heart you know and coming out the top of

our head and how to our ass and it just

kind of goes around us like a invisible

Apple you know it’s kind of pulses all

around us all the time you know our

hearts send off a shock wave out into a

subtle white out beyond our physical

body eight feet out around us so you

could imagine an eight foot globe

surrounding your body at all times

that’s what the subtle pulse is sending

off is there is there something that you

would say inspires you the most

Allison and here she says no no I would

say the same so you inspire each other

no that is my greatest inspiration and

that I probably was his first student

but I’ve been a student of Alex for all

these years and I love hearing him talk

he’s such a genius and thinks very

differently than I do in many ways I

mean no but we’ve been together for over

40 years

it’s sheer in a studio we went in art

school and we fell in love over LSD and

and the spiritual side of that I think

that was really what connected us was

that we both had had a kind of a God

opening a God awakening God contact his

brew our sacramental our soldiers and

Alex’s first sojourners in my apartment

on my couch so we never parted and we

got a loft

you know to do our art together we were

in the same gallery for years and now we

then get until we had our own gallery

then we had two galleries in the city we

had Kazem the chapels sacred mirrors

gallery which was really mostly Alex’s

most beloved works and a few of mine

thrown in and then there was the gallery

of the visionary tribe you know that the

the great visionary artists that are

working today and some who have passed

on but we showed some wonderful work in

a rotating shows incredible exhibitions

and so right now we’re you know our

project now is anthe on which is to

build the sanctuary of visionary on that

was a vision that Alex and I had in 1985

on our first MDMA experience because

that we should build this temple and so

ever since then all all our things like

that have that in mind

I mean sometimes we make art too as

commissions and to sell to people but

all proceeds go toward building this

visionary art sanctuary and now of

course we have a place for it closer

than we’ve ever been we’re here in the

valley where we love it and it’s

gorgeous for like 1500 feet from lots of

ever

it’s amazing tidal river and we have

this great and it’s got great train

access and we’ve got this great place

that we’re building and right now we

have a Kickstarter ongoing which I’m so

glad you invited us to do a new show to

just tell people to go to build and

beyond calm it’s an easy easy access to

our Kickstarter page which is blowing up

my friend Xavier and I’m so guess who

gave us a great big tweet today Sean

Lennon and he’s you know biggest donor

he’s huge he’s loving us I wish I want

to meet Sean Lennon anyway but he gave

us a tweet today that he loves our

projects so go check out

being calm that’s really important to us

that that we finish building this

exhibition you see this is going to help

us to build so that everybody can come

and the work is on view instead of in

storage Alexes beautiful sacred mirrors

and all those amazing works of art and

the originals by many visionary artists

the greatest originals by the greatest

visionary artists working today and have

passed will be shown in the first

gallery you walk into the Magi gallery

the mystic artists guild international

the mystic artists that the people who

bring the gifts you know they bring the

gifts to the to the to the God contact

you know and that’s a lot of people who

come here to cause them for many

programs and we’ve got a wedding this

weekend we’re having Mother’s Day we

always have things going on here but

anyway and you can find it at cause and

stands for chapels sacred years so

people come here it should be uplifted

you know to be inspired by with the art

of Alex gray as a context

it just happens to draw people I mean I

really want you to tell us it’s Savior

I’m really serious about this do you

remember the first time you ever saw the

work of art of Alex trade you out do you

remember where it was

we showed it to you I mean it had to be

in the late late 90s and I think it was

unlike anything I’ve ever seen it

remains that and it’s influenced so much

of my life and just looking at it it and

it really it really seems to capture the

essence of not only in the space but the

spiritual space the space that exists

between us that we don’t usually see

well I wondered if it was your friend do

you think or do you think it was your

parents or did you just see it sitting

on a coffee table

was it a poster in somebody’s room or

you just really have

recollection I honestly don’t have any

record recollection of that so

interesting because I asked a lot of

people that question and and I often

find that the people remember where they

saw it and it was somehow a bridge it

was somehow a connector like it

connected them with something familiar

something that they felt and if somebody

was really turned off to it that said

something about them and if somebody was

really turned on to it that said

something else about them and so I feel

like that’s what Alex’s work provides

and why it’s an attractor and so in in

that we know that people really want to

see the work cuz people always have and

and asked to see it so we thought why

don’t we just offer it to the public

instead of keeping it for them you know

and private collectors homes and things

then there’s many of those too I mean

there are many of Alex pace works that

things out disseminating and seizing the

world yay so that you know people can we

can create a temple so that we can all

back here and build up beyond so Alison

since I have your attention here I mean

you have said that your art has been

based on three root symbol systems chaos

order and secret writing alright what

what are these symbol systems and how do

they relate to your creative process

well when I was uh you know I started

tripping on it on LSD when I was 17 so

but then by the time I was uh twenty I

read Ron dasas be here now and I was you

know when I was tripping before that I

was going to parties and going on

bicycle trips and going and walking up

the Rocky Mountains things like that and

having wonderful times of parties and

probably really spiritually developing

myself and growing but by the time I got

to round us his book be here now he

talks about going into a dark room and

lie down peacefully with maybe some

spiritual or

ambient music and going deep inside

without experience and so that was the

first time I did that it was before I

met Alex and I saw the secret writing

and I saw the secret writing all over

the walls and all washing over my body

and over the body of my two friends I

was doing this way and I always

remembered that it was unpronounceable

and enigmatic but I knew the meaning I

had this intuitive sense of the meaning

being creative manifestation this is the

way we this is the way artists

communicate they communicate through

symbols there are symbol makers and as

extension musicians are giving a feeling

or are resonating with that with through

a language that is unpronounceable that

is inexplicable we try to put it in

words maybe we write poetry about it but

it’s but it’s inexplicable there’s

something connected about the the

creative process so anyway that was the

first secret writing and in subsequent

journeys I heard that all things were

chaos order and secret writing and chaos

is order plus entropy it is the world of

the material it is the broken world

where all things are made of different

things you know we’re all made of atoms

but we’re all different there’s all

these differences between us between a

hardwood and my skin and anyway and then

there’s a and that’s chaos it’s all

falling apart of this beautiful spectral

way so the order is that is a these

fountains and drains the suck holes and

blow holes of the bliss realm if we if

you have ever done a sacrament or had a

mystical experience you might have seen

vistas of these roiling unites you know

universal mind lattices as Alex paints

them you know those kinds of roiling and

interconnected light so that is my

symbol for that which is inexplicable

and that is and I call it order and

that’s my man Dalek

and sometimes small fields of mandalas

and the secret writing is the creative

manifestation we have inner thoughts you

know from the divine I believe that they

come in through the divine and they

manifest as things out in the chaos

world out in the material world through

symbols all of them through the window

of my secret language the might my mouth

noises that I’m making right now to you

you can translate and that you

understand because we understand the

same symbols if I was speaking Chinese

what I was saying would not come through

as meaning for you so this is these are

all symbols and we manifest our

creativity and communicate through

symbols so that’s I felt that the work

that that worldview was so profoundly

download for me that I did not need to

look further than that for my content

and I’ve done work around chaos or

secret writing since I met Alex 1975

when my work changed dramatically

I mean radically and how would you how

would you say that you and Alex kind of

vibe together when it comes to your

creative space you say something about

have you thought oh I think we’re it’s

so rare that we’re outside of each

other’s creative energy field actually

that in in a lot of ways whatever each

one of us is going through internally

it’s pretty often out there in our

creative plasma field you know and we

have to so we’re we’re both always

conscious of a person of our own

personal transformation day to day in

our communication with each other and

learning how to become better people you

know in relation to each other

I think that’s the profound gift of

relationship and a long-term

relationship is that you’re allowed to

know someone for decades

it’s a privilege you know to maintain a

friendship and it’s also I think it

sometimes more challenging than other

times but then sometimes it’s like

you’re on a toboggan you know that is

such a thrill ride you know to be I feel

like that guy at the end of that philip

k dick you know where the things we’ve

seen together you know on other planets

like in Burning Man and that so anybody

who wants to come to Burning Man and be

with the cause of camp it’s also gonna

be the maps camp yeah and it’s also

going to be the broader foam baby listen

I wanted to say something about our

journey together Alex and I we chose

this path consciously and not everybody

would choose such a path and people have

wonderful relationships in very

different ways like you know like

commuter relationships that sometimes

work perfectly for people so we’re all

about whatever works for each individual

I wanted to just tell your listeners

though that you know a young couple went

to the Buddha and they said we love each

other so much and we don’t like to even

be apart and and like we’re so scared

and worried about what’s going to happen

one day one of us is going to die and

then the other one’s going to be left

and it concerns us and the Buddha said

to them if you walk the path in the same

way it’s a possibility then you could

come back in the next lifetime as one

person and if you came back in the next

lifetime as one person I was thinking

and Alex was thinking you know and you

loved each other as much as you know we

loved each other but both hemispheres

both hard drives were in the same body

you would love yourself like a Buddha

you would like be a burst boot

you would like love yourself entirely

like Buddha and Christ did and you could

come back as a Buddha so Alex and I have

set that intention that he’s look you

know the whole thing about the better

half it’s just it just true that’s all I

love it what I have to learn and I have

what he has to learn and so being

together is uh not always easy but it is

easy it’s so delicious is what it really

is and even going through stuff is

delicious because we get better we just

get better at something so my friend

tell us more what do you want to know

about no no it’s the other way around

actually I’m here every day

okay so so Alex I’ve been everyone I’ve

talked to has asked me to ask you about

this if I don’t ask you about this I

don’t know what’s gonna happen to me

your your work has graced the album

covers of so many bands but especially

tool and 10,000 days problem how did

that collaboration come about why do you

think that image resonates with so many

people well it’s really interesting I

think that the origins of it being on

the album were all the way back in

probably 2002 when Adam and I were

working on the parabola ending and since

I was working on that video with them

and having a lot of fun getting my first

opportunity to do storyboards and

animation and work with really talented

computer graphic artists and stuff they

gave me that opportunity early on Adam

did and so the at that time I was just

beginning the drawings the first

drawings for the painting that became

net of being and it was based on

ayahuasca experience that I had had that

year and the lateralis had just come out

the previous year so we were still in a

kind of glowy state from that and it was

that I think big boost because look my

work is not what you’d call mainstream

in the contemporary art sense and so the

alternatives for artists who find

themselves in such a space or you know I

mean I was kind of going it on my own

and doing the we published books you

know in 1990 sacred mares came out and

then other philosophical reflections the

mission of art and then transfigurations

and so then we started working with two

or more and so that and Adam gave me the

opportunity to do stage sets and you

know just propose ideas and the ones

that he liked you know we he went with

so I showed him those early drawings

about the net of being and we both

looked at each other and thought because

we were doing the computer animation

someday we’ve got to animate this

someday we’ve got to make that space

come to life so it but it was years that

I’ve been painting on the thing and so

in I don’t know what was a 2006 he got

ahold of me and it was we have this

concept that is these 3d glasses that go

with it’s like the old-time kind of 3d

photography and it was something that

Adam had been into for many years like a

decade or more he’d been taking 3d

photographs and so he had this idea that

he could make it into a CD and it would

be a way that you can’t just download

that they made an object that people

wanted to own and it was ingenious

really it won

graeme just as a package idea and and

the art was part of it too because we

had a lot of different you know like

ideas he was saying well what do you

think we could do with this thing this

3d thing so I had a whole bunch of

propositions and then said I just showed

him a picture of what I was working on

and it was the net of being I’m

forgotten I had shown him that and he

said that’s it and so that put it on the

album cover and immediately I saw oh my

god we could put the glasses over the

head of the thing and it just feel like

it was made for it and so it just became

the cover immediately and it wasn’t even

done it was just like okay you know and

reduce like seven inches or something

you can’t really tell this and but then

it got into posters and all kinds of

stuff so it became one of the most

famous unfinished meanings of all but it

will be very much featured an NP on

it’ll be like right behind the stage

it’s gonna be basically the backdrop for

the stage but an Theon is what we’re

working on now but I want to just say

Alex hasn’t done a lot of album covers

because Alex and I both I think together

are very discerning about whose work

uses your you know your art and so over

the years it really hasn’t been that

many and probably less now but but to

have tool involved I mean has been an

incredible experience and it’s helped to

bring Alex’s work to millions of people

and we’re very very grateful and at NC

on were having a tool shrine we have so

many the tool army wanted a shrine for

tools so we’re like putting one in our

reliquary room we have a reliquary room

with these psychedelic heroes and and

and it’s cool shrine and altars and

things like that so it’ll be really cool

you know we’d hope to open like 2017 so

we have a little ways to go but we’re

giving tours at every after every Archer

we still take people into the

construction zone and show them what

everything’s gonna be we’re very excited

I think I’m gonna have to make a trip up

there I’m in Florida Central Florida

Central Florida Gainesville as we go to

gauge so a lot the University of Florida

that’s you do I’m actually into quite a

bit really yes we should is there they

have the art and healing center you know

they they’re medical school is one of

the earliest art therapy place to shams

the shams they are all about art therapy

and we’ve been down there doing leave

with our daughter when she was young

doing performances that were

commissioned by the Shands you know by

that art yiling yeah shanz is huge and

games Rockwood Lane that’s her name Mary

Rockford Lane she’s she I mean if it

weren’t for these people you wouldn’t

even know about our therapy it’s amazing

Hospital getting to Gainesville oh yeah

and then you’ve got Mickey singer down

there he’s just like the a lot in

Alachua Florida huh yeah I’ve met Mickey

gone to his temple the universe and so

we need to enact obviously I need to

meet you guys so okay getting back to

getting back to some of the questions I

have for this interview Alex your work

seems to have an interest in both the

scientific and artistic side of life and

your earlier work seemed to focus more

on death and transcendence and why do

you think your early work did that it’s

probably the protracted egodeath you

know like the long squeal of the pig as

it dies

has a tendency to be depressed so I’ll

just tell you this when he first met him

he had a had a side he had made called

suicide theater and I was really worried

about what he might do to himself but he

has transcended that and has worked on

that I think it’s but it is a tendency

of yours well you know I was wondering

because that whole story with the Buddha

you know I guess what do you do with the

shadow right what are we saying about

spiritual leaders that they have no

shadow

isn’t that like unrealistic isn’t that

just completely bogus and isn’t that

what they always do is that they make

the the spiritual leader somehow inhuman

somehow without a shadow which is

whatever which is what the shadow wants

you to think that only you have

you know only you have that anchor of a

depression or or psychosis or whatever

is your you know anchor oh so but that’s

your ego that’s your shadow and I I

think that what it is is your great

teacher you know you have to look at it

as a kind of a both a teacher but also

it’s not the witness it’s not the truly

who you are it’s kind of the reflections

in the mirror and not the mirror itself

so the the sky is watching a cloud

instead of the you know the the frantic

cloud worrying because it’s dissolving

you know I think that the to identify

more with the context of cosmic being

and of being beyond time is what spirit

and the higher sacred arts have always

pointed toward so they plot they point

toward the transcendence and I think

that the I was going through the death

part probably always will part of me you

know and

I wear black all the time you know so

you could say I’m in mourning over the

web of life and all of the the death

inadvertent that’s gone to nature and

all the the kind of unrighteous wars

that the humans wage so it’s you could

also say it’s the source of all creative

light is in the transcendent no

thingness so as as a as a creative entry

point the black seems to work but it’s

you could also say it’s the shadow that

you acknowledge exists but it doesn’t

mean that your mind has to be only

conditioned by that knowledge it should

be chastened bind it should be enlivened

by it because it’s the contrast to that

you know it’s the we are alive now that

unites us you know that’s a beautiful

and and it’s only so treasured because

it’s so impertinent and so because of

that treasured preciousness of each

moment you know that that music and art

can excel or the look of a beloved you

know and the compassion and a stranger’s

eyes a smile all of those things you

know the sunset these these things are

the things that God gives us as these

little treasures and little gems each

day that we life’s worth it you know

life’s beautiful life’s an affirmation

and so our lives and consciousness

together are the we’re I think real

creativity and transformation lives I

mean is that why you spent so much time

at Harvard Medical School studying

cadavers well I think that I had to

understand this

structure of consciousness which is the

vehicle the black box of the body and

because the body decays and is is made

up of composite things you know and and

deconstruct it’s it’s a kind of

mechanics but I don’t believe that

that’s what our self is limited to where

do you see the consciousness of the

planet today in society today and where

do you believe it’s going I think that

we’re at this point of the need for

breakthrough and the tremendous

frustration of massive numbers of people

and suffering of massive numbers of

people and so that the cry of both the

life web and the human web is a almost

overwhelming pain that most people take

antidepressants not to feel and so the

the numbing of our consciousness is the

other aspect that is kind of the

collective shadow so I feel like there

are many spirits and forces clashing as

we evolve our consciousness and part of

our tribe and especially the the

20-somethings and even before the teens

they get it immediately there isn’t any

tolerance of it’s why bernie is

so favored by the young people there

they’re intolerant of and they

want to hear ideals articulated vision

articulated people who still are alive

to the possibility of vision that that

can help us survive the types thoughts

to come because we have to plan for

overarching survival we

have to get off our addiction to oil we

have to find the new energy source and

start to wind down the outworn nuclear

facilities and we have to get

independent kind of solar and the solar

technologies out as soon as possible

would you say that people are hungry for

mystical experiences I think that it’s

in all of our souls and at this point

because of our immersion in the

materialism that we earn for like I did

that one day when I dared God to show me

a sign before I succumb to my own you

know sort of self-destruction and I it

was kind of a dare in the same way I

think that the soul of every person that

still alive to the possibility of love

they yearn for a source of love that is

infinite and is is a source that unites

all life and the scientists are not

saying it doesn’t exist they point to

the unity of things they point to a

source point and to a United field so I

think that the intuition of the mystic

and the book and the lover is close to

the pulse of life and that that

affirmation of the beauty of life and

the truth of life and goodness of life

is what art is most righteously about

and that’s how it serves the spirit is

this why you would say that your art is

so immersive so visceral that perhaps

you’re relying this sort of significance

to the divine and transmitting it into

the people who see it your anatomical

work is visceral your other work is

is both cerebral and ethereal it’s from

another world it comes from the inner

experience and I think that when Alex’s

earliest studies were about the body

it’s true and he was a medical

illustrator for a good solid 12 years

where he supported Zenon and I as I was

not I was only working with Alex on his

work you know and so basically was one

income of medical illustration that was

doing and then the paintings that we

were selling some of them we had shows

and things but still her good 12 15

years studied the body and was you know

intimated his life but you know I mean

more and more as work is more about the

the ephemeral I mean I’m looking around

the gallery in the studio right now and

I don’t see any works of art in this

room that have Anatomy and many more oh

there’s one and the other one is

Univision has Anatomy and I think it’s

it’s it’s something that you know how to

to use and and taught yourself like you

know like a fabulous part of your house

you know like you know of all the things

that you know how to do you know how to

represent the body accurately and if

people are gonna use the body and their

art then we use the figure in their art

I think you use the face and their art

they need to you know we have a

confident approach to that not everybody

has to do it through Natalie not

everybody has to understand you know the

anatomy to do it but the conferring of

proto chest to be evidencing yeah well

we’ve become a lot more comfortable in

seeing the sort of underlayment of the

physical body what’s under the skin you

know because of the bodies exhibition

and things like this and so it’s more

part of and even the shows that are on

television that show us you know

cadavers now we’re seeing this

and now we’re seeing surgery and now

we’re seeing more familiarity with the

body so over the years when I first was

presenting these life-sized sort of

dissections of figures before bodies and

before all those things you know there

was all practically a physical

discomfort with people and seeing these

large flayed kind of figures which I

think it at this point is is not so much

you know because oh we know it’s a

painting and that’s a painting of a

decent painting of a you know our

headache commercials have spinning you

know translucent people so it’s you know

and and that just wasn’t the way it was

but but I think it it brought it out

into the open and people see in that

item analysis is pattern light power you

know it’s it’s they can become more

removes from it as art well I think that

what what the end atomizing of the

figure does is universalize the figure

and rather than focus on what race we

are we’re saying we’re all humans we all

have bodies we all have skeletons you

know it’s why you see x-ray art all over

the world in shamanic art you see a kind

of silhouette and then inside bone like

tracings from Australia to you know the

art of the Anasazi so this kind of

skeletal ization you’ll see it in

huichol art to the shamanic art is

seeing this kind of x-ray world and

that’s kind of a level of the world of

light that the visionary artists I think

are trying to bring bad you know not

just me and not just house and I think

Allison’s work is about right she talks

about her languages first seeing it as

light you know it was light figures you

know but it’s all there and these in

these letters and it’s intelligent

you know that it is communicating

something mystery and then but it’s come

from a world of light and they the the

grids of light are you know basically

prismatic representations of what could

be white light fields of

interconnectedness you still have that

right right field because each drawing

things she doesn’t draw she doesn’t

paint every part of her paintings she

leaves a little mote of white so there’s

always a white light field connecting

everything and so there’s to that to the

world of chaos now what are we but light

itself shattered in various ways

you know we’re coming together we’re

falling apart from order chaos chaos to

order and all because of what we say you

know be when we say that we’re getting

better we’re getting better when we say

things are getting worse it’s tendency

just to make things worse and to make it

come true so you you you know not that

that works all the time you know energy

that’s around you so that you want it

you want to you know if you want people

firmly spire right then you have to

constantly be affirming and going

forward and so but anyway that’s just

you know advice from the old people I

mean Alex would there would you say that

there is a point in your life that was

the most influential to your work any

period of of life for you that maybe

define the rest you know I think that

the 24 hours really that I took LSD for

the first time and basically decided

that there was a God and life was worth

living I decided to live that was my

rebirth in life I think that was kind of

like your second chance if you get a if

God hears your prayers and appears to

you within 24 hours and then divine love

in the flesh shows up right

my partner for the next 40 years if you

can’t see the sign if you can’t read the

tea leaves I think you’re pretty dense

you know well but let’s say this let’s

say this I think that Alex you know was

uh it gave Alex a content for his work

it gave him what his work could be about

the most important thing like both of us

felt that this was the most important

thing you know next to finding each

other the the incident and the what the

vision was and seeing it was the most

important and and life-changing vision

and altered altered our way of thinking

about the world

and God and and everything’s everything

inner and outer so that I gave Alex a

direction and content for his work and

gave it meaning but I have to say alex

was always a great artist even before he

met me he was famous in high school he

had a show at the Columbus Ohio City

Hall when he was in high school solo

show so this guy may any got a full

scholarship to art school so he he was

recognized as an artist because he is

uncompromising and he is on you know

he’s just unstoppable and basically

uncompromising you know works of art

must be you know what he wants them to

be you know and I mean it’s it’s like

he’s been known to wipe out entire areas

after working on them for long periods

of time so he’s always you know always

uncompromising and and sometimes this

work takes a little bit longer because

of that but it’s very very respected

because it’s he always learns about

everything in his work too you know I

mean like everything that’s in there

every symbol it’s in there you probably

read a book about he has a mode of

references around him at all times

so anyway I’m a big big fan you can tell

did you guys get a chance to meet Albert

Hoffman did he come – gasps oh and

numerous occasions we were able to our

daughter had dinner with them when she

was 9 years old and then that was an am

damn and then we met him again a couple

of times but once on his hundredth

birthday yes Alex did his portrait an

important portrait a very important

piece that you could see in an Theon

when we opened it’s called

st. Albert and the LSD revelation

Revolution and Albert was a hundred

years old that day 11111 we know it was

at the 11one11 oh one I don’t remember

but in any case he was 100 and he signed

the back of the painting it was on a

board so it was he could sign the back

of it and he made a picture of the

molecule on the back of it so I was oh

six oh six oh six that’s where we went

to Basel Switzerland for the world

psychedelic form there’s a lot of

interest in this mysterious substance

that we call a sacrament and there are

scientists and sociologists and

psychologists and psychiatrists that are

studying it and now testing it for all

kinds of interesting cures people are

finding incredible success with cluster

headaches related to LSD and all kinds

of other stuff you know they’re doing

the tests of big big universities like

Johns Hopkins and Harvard and Yale and

UCLA and some other ones so they’re

they’re getting like real legitimate

about it all to find out what attacked

what is the potential of this very

strange and powerful substance that it

admit and a millionth of a gram has

people feeling that they have had the

experience that is greater and more as

as important of an experience as as the

most experiences important experiences

of their life including bearing children

and things like that so they put it up

there with those sorts of importance and

why is that and what how can that help

us help us and so you know it can’t help

us by I hurt by by by harming us right

we don’t want harm you want harm

reduction so how can we make it so that

it helps us and lets a lot of research

further about that maps is the

multidisciplinary Association for

psychedelic studies and they’re the guys

that we’re gonna be at Burning Man with

and they have a big speaker series and

sendo we’re gonna be there this sub

Burning Man did you ever go to Burning

Man myself I have not been to Burning

Man yet it’s on the lists on the bucket

list you should come and were there I

will make a point to eventually see you

guys so we are running out of time here

I I want to ask each of you kind of if

you have one thing that you could tell a

budding artist someone who’s getting

into kind of drawing painting who

admires your work what would that be

well draw everyday and devote time to

this you know don’t expect a lot of

rewards all at once but really find out

why you’re doing it and do it for your

own Souls reasons and if every if

anything becomes successful so much the

better

you know and if you find yourself in the

realms of success you you know then you

know learn to appreciate that and Van

Gogh has had a I’ve tried to try to keep

a dialogue with your your family of

artists you know like learn who your

tribe is and they may be living or dead

you know and hopefully they’re both you

know you’re part of a wave so get in

touch with the way and get in touch with

the people who are doing work that is

this similar to yours wedding artists

should check out how they can study with

Alex tonight and it’s all at Casa morg

we teach we

two classes coming up in July and

there’s lots of ways to interact we have

wonderful artists that come here man to

say just taught a workshop here and has

another one coming up so I would just

like to say one other thing before we

close that is to everybody in this

family everybody that’s out there

listening into your savior may any merit

generated by our gather and be dedicated

to the benefit and liberation of all

beings yeah I love it

you guys are truly amazing Allison tell

us a little bit more about NT on this

project that is coming up where people

can find the Kickstarter all day on comm

we created a special page so that you

can just go to build anything and icon

takes you right to our Kickstarter page

we are blowing right up my friends

please get joined right on we’ve got

some fantastic tool brand new and unique

exclusive rewards and and and then when

you come here you can say I helped build

this temple spot and you can tell your

children that you helped build this

temple it’s gonna be around for a

thousand years unless somebody you know

knocks it down and stand there for a

thousand years as it’s gonna be

beautiful we’re gonna get us we’re gonna

get all the way there we’re gonna get

all the sculptures on there it’s gonna

cost us though and it’s and you know

building a temple is the work of a

community so that’s why we’re doing that

because this is the visionary art tribe

and anybody who loves the vision and the

visionary art can come around and help

us even at the lowest level your

contribution really helps our campaign

because it like blows up more and more

people are participating and we have

some low medium and high and you know

rewards we got original art and there

people are looking for art by Alex gray

they’re you know we’re like putting it

up there so I know I’ve got some pieces

and some visionary our tribe they think

they’ve been coming out there they’re

donating their art their original art

and there’s you clays

additions there you know you’ll see them

there’s a hospital and then we just sold

a I can say this cuz it’s a campaign we

just sold and I think it was a nineteen

thousand dollar banjo no thirteen

thirteen thousand dollar banjo

functional blasts baby what’s the fun

back in functional and banjo you if you

don’t know he is the biggest blast

artist functional glass artist one of

those really hot and he put his piece up

there for our Kickstarter and it just

sold today really yes indeed daddy duty

so play play play play full out we love

to have you be part of the campaign

that’s a great feeding small rewards and

and that come to Qasim yeah we got

Mother’s Day if you’re in the area we’ve

got you know Alex and I teaching the

visionary art intensive for the 27th

summer come and be in our class if

you’re an artist and you want to study

with this man and his muse come to the

Omega visionary art intensive it’s it’s

a five-day experience of fun and love

with lots and lots of visionary artists

that’s what we want you to be this July

with us so it’s that good xav well

wouldn’t it Alec says one more thing

Friday Friday we’re gonna be the

alchemists kitchen if anybody hears this

before Friday

Friday night we’re gonna pounce and I

are doing our blended talk the

inevitable consequence of love and we’re

talking about it at the alchemists

kitchen in New York City it’s a great

new space in New York City and you got

to find it and you gotta come and see us

what date is that on is that this

kitchen Savior is that the Friday the

6th ok tomorrow there might be a little

bit early but in any case our kitchen is

full I just I really want to thank you

both for your the work all the work that

you’ve done for being here your energy

is amazing this is the most fun that

I’ve had

with an episode in a long time and I

just I bow to you know kind of your

legacy it it’s truly your vibe the

energy it’s beautiful thank you guys

both so much for for being here thank

you so much