Episode 48- Transcript – Christian De Quincey



Will healing. But I’m and humane handling brain hemispheres at entertaining and mentally invented telling me right now is an excellent frontotemporal occipital I at you take you to a this episode of the human experience podcast is brought to you by find mindfulness mindfulness these days is huge mass media is starting to understand the benefits of taking time to pause and reflect have you ever been interested in mindfulness and meditation of your wanted to create a practice but you just fall off track all this is were fine mindfulness comes in the offer a community that will help you create those powerful lasting habits that keep you training your mind whether you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or a college student running a startup find mindfulness can help you find mindfulness is a 3-D program how often are you looking at yourself and just ask yourself how often you look at yourself and then tell yourself that you need to take this course mentioned human experience go and sign up right now at www.findmindfulness.com will what’s of folks this is our episode with Christian TV. We discussed consciousness and his book blind spots 21 good reasons to think before you talk and yeah it was an interesting read this actually quite challenging to get just because I usually books pretty fast with this one I took me some time I had to process what I was reading just because it really does paradigms and the things he told and so I really think you guys will enjoy this episode it is a little highbrow perhaps I wasn’t asking the right questions. Nonetheless it’s a good interview he called did drop a few times did make it a little bit difficult to sustain a sort of conversation all in all good interview good episode please make sure you check us out on YouTube Facebook Twitter at the human XP these become a member five bucks a month price of coffee it will help us sustain our server costs I would really appreciate it thank you guys so much for listening the human experiences deconstructing consciousness as we speak to my guest Christian D Quincey Christian maggots are welcome to Atrix be that the greater a very much looking forward to our conversation so Christian and your your professor of philosophy and to come consciousness studies you graduated at John F. Kennedy University your the Dean of conscious studies that of philosophical research you are and award-winning author you found the wisdom Academy you seem to them unlocked a hero level achievement in the consciousness field what sparked this interest for you and what about consciousness fascinates you so much our so well over the story goes back a long where it’s actually something I written about it one of my my other books radical knowing where I talk about when I was a child of about seven or eight years living in Ireland that it was a rainy day but nothing to do so I picked up my old my father’s old have an encyclopedia and started reading through the endemic also drawing of a dinosaur that was associated with an entry article on evolutions I started reading and the losing probably didn’t understand but I’m a student of to be surprised that will only could I come from my parent’s that they from their grandparents way back to the beginnings of humanity that humans themselves evolved from some private apelike ancestors occurring from other mammals that came from tiles the came from amphibians looking from fish whole the way back through jellyfish to what that old encyclopedia called infusing of single celled critters that we would go protozoa bacteria I was astounded a better leverage to realize that my earliest ancestors were bacteria even more than that I wondered will between bacteria and me sitting here in my parents room in the island between bacteria and children’s where diverse ability to wonder consciousness to be able to think what of that first arrives great unfolding of revolution and so I looked at my dog and most pretty sure sure dogs habits in the captain you so sure that she had to survive look to the goldfish and after a few moments of hesitation decided I guess even go fishing fish of consciousness and then I wondered about the worms on the back whether they had been stability to wonders affect the conscious and I couldn’t decide one way or the other on since I would between fishing worms I figure that consciousness had come into being that exactly where the encyclopedia didn’t answer that question and the question of where the great unfolding of evolution to consciousness first arrives stay with me in the background and then my late teens and early 20s I started reading up see if I can find an answer that question when I started by studying evolutionary biology and after a while I realized that there’s no way that biology is to be able to answer questions about consciousness so that I shifted over to psychology and I found fascinating reading about perception of the psychological phenomena I realized after a while that that actually the science of psychology had nothing to say about consciousness it back in those days still to some extent today found it was dominated by behavior is which had no room for mind the consciousness so that I thought what is really a philosophical question is a question about the nature of the relationship between consciousness and the physical world of so I then dived into philosophy but particularly philosophy of mine which was the the discipline that address this question but I soon came to realize that they were to English languages there’s the English that we all speak to members the English that philosophers think and I just had real difficulty backbend decoding the language of philosophy Western academic philosophy and so then I turned my attention to Eastern philosophies to Buddhism Hinduism thousand and particular and was delighted to find the wealth of information that was focused on consciousness worried but it had nothing to say about evolution and so my question still remain unanswered enzyme desperation I turned back to Western academic philosophy of mind this time really determined to crack the code and an idea it and along the way I rediscovered the work of the of my favorite philosopher of the British metaphysician Alfred North Whitehead and and found that the answer to my question was nowhere that consciousness didn’t arise anywhere in the great unfolding of evolution for the simple fact that it was always present the consciousness always existed wherever there was matter there is some are energy was some form of consciousness and so I then became enthralled with the philosophical position #is in which states that all matters intrinsically sentencing the consciousness does all the way down it was there not only in their fish in the worms that in the cells of the fish and then animal in the molecules of themselves and the the atoms the subatomic particles of Kwanzaa what ever lies the fundamental basis of physical reality there was some degree some trace of consciousness is the ability to feel to be aware to make choices exists at that level mean you’re connecting the items that are floating around in matter and and then you moving towards human relationships and eight I found your book challenging to read actually I usually can finish a book and in a couple days I found myself up unite I started reading this book last week and I found myself reading a few pages and scribbling a much aligns taking notes I would I would read a few pages and then can put it down and I would have to absorb what you said and I found I found the back of what it says on your book quite hilarious to read that we live in a world filled with clichés convenient assumptions and unquestioned conclusions that many of us use without giving them a second thought we all spread these thought viruses infecting everyone we come in contact with many of these blind spots and how we think about ourselves and the world do not withstand rigorous scrutiny or even casual scrutiny in some cases if they fall out of the mouths of scientists religious teachers journalists and authors with dumbfounding frequency while that’s quite statement so I was challenging the basic assumptions that we find it hard science and philosophy that most scientists and philosophers that I’m aware of just take for granted inserts it’s understandable that if the the expert so to speak take these ideas for granted without much questioning that the general public delay audience is likely to also take them for granted and so by challenging these deeply ingrained assumptions can take time can can be able to detect type of double take to find out exactly what I’m saying and and and why why people don’t notice the the absurdities of many of the position that are taken for granted and if you like it if we have time we can go into guess I would love to have constant over the course summary me let’s get into the very first one you mentioned that we think it’s the first one that we create our own reality and I’m unite I found family said intriguing that we effect don’t create reality we color art our thoughts color reality color we color the way that we perceive reality can you can you detail that can you get into that force please you I I sure cannot read about a way that that wasn’t oppressed Muslim the book we can come back to the first what if you like this everything came from nothing and enter the Big Bang and that’s that’s that it opens with that group are specific reason but the question the US I think occurs very early all of that we traded on reality couple of problems with that Festival if it were true that each of us creates or unreality then how could we ever communicate if you lived in your created self-created reality and I lived in my self-created reality what would be the common link that would enable us to communicate clearly we live in realities that overlap like value and I communicate so we obviously don’t live in our own separate self-created realities we live in a shared reality so that’s the first thing it’s we do exist on our own reality the second point is is that we certainly don’t create reality because we as a species of been around for what couple million euros give or take and clearly reality has existed for a long time even this universes been around for about 14 billion years before we can all the see the clearly reality does not depend on human consciousness or human intention for reality to exist so is the other way around us not that we create reality reality created us so neither do we create our own reality nor do we create any reality through our thoughts and and that’s that’s the third aspect of that last thought is that actually. Create anything except perhaps trouble thoughts and beliefs are just abstractions that like frozen snapshots of experience experience happens naturally and automatically from moment to moment to moment and that what folders is like freeze framing one of those moments and then putting it to one side the meanwhile and experiences keep happening and so the be the fault we had one moment is out of date by the time the next month experience arises and so on our thoughts and beliefs are made of thoughts of made of these abstractions all her thoughts relate to some kind in the past on moment ago not to the current moment of reality and whelping Bartleson talk about with my students is I asked the question when does consciousness or experience everybody says right now when I say whether this reality happen well again reality happens right now the present moment so of experience in reality coincide therefore the optimum way to know reality to know what was actually going on what is actually happening is to pay attention to our embodied experience in the moment not to the thoughts and beliefs we have about reality is they refer to a reality that no longer exists in the past and maybe just a few moments ago are needed like the way back in our childhood are indeed in some private lifetime this notion that we create our own reality has become incredibly popular it’s it’s very it’s very mainstream in New Age movements coming such as the secret a lot of people are pitching this idea I mean soon how does it this work and me are we can’t do we have our own little bubbles that we kind of interpret information with and then you as I speak to you those sort of bubbles kind of coalesce in and we exchange information that way I think I think the reason that some people have very different ideas that for example the idea that we create or unreality as I showed them in this device thoughts that that cannot be true the reason that such clichés of I spoke like that persistence because people don’t actually take the time to think through the assumptions that they hold of a just take for granted and so what this book is about in the subtitle of my mentioned is 21 good reasons to think before we talk some people actually don’t stop to think they just accept these ideas without question and so what this book is doing is stopping and asking encouraging inviting people to think a little bit deeper and to show them that actually these 21 clichés really don’t make any sense once once we decide to bookable closely they just don’t withstand close scrutiny so yes a lot of people have the idea really quick to the idea that we create or unreality but as I pointed out is that cannot be the case because if that were the case that could never communicate and clearly reality is something that we creates it’s the other way around reality creates us because it has existed long before we even involved in the unit if consciousness is subject is in the process of life is objective and how mean how does how we connect this together how do we use this in relationships if you’re married how is my consciousness affecting the consciousness of another person 12 worried effective a lot of topics there with the Watson at least implicit questions that you you began by asking how is the objective process of life related to the subject process of consciousness and so we can pick that up and then come back to the topic of relationships should in as I mentioned earlier that the worldview that seems to me to make the most sense to account for the fact that matter exists bodies exist and consciousness exist we know that the case that the big being philosophy best accounts for the existence of both of those and their relationship is have cytosine the idea that matter are energy is intrinsically sentient so every object is also the subject is no separation between them it doesn’t mean they are identical and that’s another blind spot that is very very prevalent is the people cheered that something that two things like consciousness in an embodiment might be different Mike distinct and the assume that therefore they are separate the distinction is not the same separateness so just because to realities are distinct consciousness and and embodiment of my and met it doesn’t mean they are separate love it always go together and so wherever you have that maybe this is the major point that you need to get has to be able to us, like regular codes to so much of the the alternative physicians on presenting in this book and if you if you don’t get this the rest probably will keep her strange you is that we have to give up the idea that either the basic reality is matter which is called materialism of that song Holloway that’s inexplicable mind a consciousness emerged to revolve from sure objective matter best just a nonstarter philosophically the author idea is idealism that’s common in very many spiritual traditions particularly Eastern spiritual traditions is the reverse idea is the idea that binder consciousness are spirit is the ultimate reality about what we call matter is either an illusion it doesn’t really exist else in the something that emanated from pure consciousness which are spirit that’s exactly the same inexplicable problem faced by materialism except in reverse is no way to account expand rationally logically account for the fact that something truly subjective could ever produce anything object of the pure spirit are consciousness could ever just real matter so materialism is problematic idealism is problematic in terms of being able to explain the relationship between these two realities my matter of and then if you is dualism it takes the view that both live in matter do actually exist that the existence separate domains at least acknowledges the reality of one’s is that you can’t reduce either matter to mind our minds to matter but that they existence separate domains another problem with dualism is that if mind and matter consciousness and energy exist in different domains then how come they could ever interacted nobody can even begin to explain how that could happen so we have deep problems philosophically with materialism but says that only matters ultimately real with idealism that says only kind of mind a consciousness is ultimately real and with dualism that says both matter and mind a real that exist separately separate domains all those views are deeply problematic the only view that seems to account for the reality and the existence of the relationship between matter and mind between consciousness and energy is the view called have cytosine the idea that matter energy are intrinsically sentient that subjectivity is inherent in objectivity there is no separation between the two and so therefore as life to go back your question was the relationship between the objective processes of living systems of evolution and the subjective reality of consciousness is that consciousness is always been active in evolution it’s a it’s right from the very start there has been awareness all possibilities and ability to make choices among this possibilities and bows have those aspects of reality of accounting for the progress of evolution being aware of alternative possibilities when making choices that is what accounts for evolution so we can consistency of evolution as the grand adventure on matter energy exploring its own potentials consciousness is part of the process of evolution is not something that emerged from evolution it’s always the inherent within evolution guiding that’s unfolding and that really makes sense and and mean you talk you talk about this sort of energy and you talk about how did this settle energies also content and that consciousness doesn’t create this sort of so energy can you get into that these several energy is still form of energy different something that spreads out in space and cyberspace but minor consciousness is not special it doesn’t any extension the doesn’t any longer it doesn’t exist in space at all nine location it’s it’s not even on location it’s not located it doesn’t have any existencewhatsoever and so so subtle energy is not the same as consciousness just as regular physical energy has consciousness build into its it’s intrinsically sentient so subtle energy intrinsically sentient as well as that all energy whether it’s subtle energy or gross physical energy columns with the ability to feel to be aware of to make choices and it’s that ability feel to be aware to make choices that’s what consciousness is either bopper sticker that some sums up the relationship between consciousness and and energy of it applies to whether his physical energy your are subtle energy and bumper stickers simply this consciousness knows energy flows so what that means is consciousness is the ability to know to be aware to feel existence of anything energy is what flows through existence of what is what flows through space what consciousness is not someone of his objects floating through space that’s a common blind spot common to both new agers and to materialist philosophers is that they tend to think of consciousness is as an object and try to apply the tools and ideas of objectivity to something that just doesn’t have that kind of reality it is subject to when when I’m having a deep profound conversation with someone and and I feel like I’m connecting with that men and if the phrase usually connected with them on on such a high level mean and I and I feel something happening there and at maybe when you say that energy doesn’t transmit mean there’s nothing being transmitted between me and this person as we speak actually that’s not quite what I said I’m saying that it out in that kind of essentially telepathic connection there is no energy being transmitted that accounts for the telepathic connection serving right now you are having this conversation and we are connected we are understanding each other at least to some degree but we secondly communicating were connected now in the were speaking words the words a traveling through cyberspace through it through the process of electrons moving through space and of those accounting the energy and whether or not if you if we were sitting opposite each other in a room then it wouldn’t be the energy would be to residents are electrons of the transmitted through vibrations of the air passes that’s a an exchange of energy and that certainly happens when people communicate there is a physical connection in exchange of energy that doesn’t account for the reception at meeting so right now to some extent you and I are understanding each other because were grasping the meaning of the other person is communicating that’s not contain the air vibrations are in the electrons meaning is something subjective it doesn’t exist in the objective physical world so something else is happening besides the exchange of physical energy weatherization vibrations are electrons that accounts of the fact that you and I showed me that we understand the meaning that the other is the communicating that is a consciousness to consciousness of mind to mind the telepathic communication and there’s nothing know energies transferred in that communication so yes we are speaking so for example to letters may be sitting together one sister the other I love you have a here at because that said the the the the the the sound in the room that the air the rivers vibrating that’s creating the sound so there’s a physical process taking place and so the other person hears the words but more than likely what really matters is not the fact that they hear the words I love you what the really interested in his the the sincerity the authenticity the remaining does that person really mean what he or she says that is not carried in the air vibrations these no way to analyze explore the vibrations of the air all the electrons to see if that person is really being sincere and authentic that something that occurs in in in consciousness of the mind and that’s subjective it’s not something that occurs in space there’s no instrument that could ever detect whether or not somebody is being sincere are authentic that’s so we do Telepathically that the telepathic connection is not something that involves the exchange of energy through space so we connect into waves we connect energetically through exchanges of energy that happens all the time that’s a physical processes while something objective connecting with an exchange energy with something else that subjective we also connect inter-subjectively through sharing of meaning and that’s something that doesn’t occur in space and doesn’t require any special connection at all mean would you say that that everything is connected this alert you in fact I even have a chapter in in the book blind spots on that’s know some years ago I have is hot moments like a lot of people either have these Eureka moments in the shower while and driving this particular one happen one day while I was taking a shower I was thinking about the this idea that everything is connected and it suddenly struck me when of course everything is connected it couldn’t be any other way than that think of it this way so if if you are either not connected with two things are not connected it means that there is something between them that separate them but it was something between us that separate us than whatever is between us is also connecting us if there is nothing between us than there is nothing separating us so either way we are always connected there is no way for any two items in reality to ever be unconnected they always connected in some way because if there was anything between them that whatever is between them them Them and if there was nothing between them and they would be connected anyway so the idea that everything is connected to me as kind of Mohammed’s like develop yes of course because there is really no other option the really important and intriguing question to me is not whether everything is connected in octave everything is connected to everything else the really interesting question is what is the nature of connection and we connect into ways we connect we connect physically through exchanges of energy and we also connect not physically through sharing of Maine in consciousness and the showing of media consciousness is not something that can be explained in the exchanges of energy so against effective example of two lovers communicating they say to each other I love you well there’s a connection physically through the words being spoken than the air vibrations that set up the chain reaction that ultimately government gets processed in the brain but not of that contains meaning meaning is something that it occurs in consciousness and so we connect through shared meaning which is nothing to do with the exchanges of energy through space communicate I found find all this incredibly profound and it connects it does connect with me when you put it the way you do and I remember the chapter in your book that was kind of a softball for you and you also mentioned that we we aren’t alone we are not isolated individuals that come together to form relationships made love to hear your perspective on that as well this comes back to portray rising earlier about how do people communicate in in one of my all the books a radical knowing that the theme of that book is intersubjectivity and essentially in that book the subtitle is exploring consciousness through relationship so we can explore consciousness in in three ways from what’s called the great first-person perspective which is what neuroscience does it explores the structure of the brain and the nervous system that gives us the object of call it’s a mind consciousness it doesn’t tell us anything about consciousness per se but it tells us how the brain operates when when events are going on in the body consciousness so that’s one way of your science is the third person perspective be the other one is the first-person perspective which is through which is what people do meditation and contemplation where we take the time to go deeply into our own subjectivity into pay attention to what’s happening and that those are really the to standard modes that and that people use for exploring consciousness in the long time the first-person perspective proponents would say that everything that the third person been the materialists are doing it is missing the mark of the only true way to explore consciousness is through first-person contemplation first-person investigation in in radical knowing a point out that there is a third way and that’s the second person perspective which is through intersubjectivity so Robin van just looking into our own subjective private awareness we can pay attention to what happens when we are connecting with others in relationship that is intersubjectivity that why subjectivity is in the cocreated relationship with your subjectivity that actually we are co-creating each other at every moment that that might my consciousness is not only influencing your consciousness that it is literally co-creating your consciousness that part of cool you are is created by part of who I am and vice versa that all sentient beings in the universe are contributing to the beating to the existence of all other sentient beings of the universe the Buddhist tradition is deeply aware of this and person is codependent co-origination that everything arises because of its relationships with everything else so in that sense consciousness the deepest nature of consciousness is not are individual subjective wines a consciousness that that is that that is real there is reality to our individuality with the deepest nature of who we are is not individuals the deepest nature is aware that point in that book is is interview jewels ticked not be the Buddhist sage first was interbeing the deepest nature of reality is relationship and then out of is matrix a web of relationships good picture like an ocean these waves all individuality arise out of the ocean of intersubjectivity out of the ocean relationship and the exist for the like who are 80 9000 years and then they dissolve a return back into the ocean of intersubjectivity so individuality is not the primary reality of our existence it is real but it is secondary our deepest nature are deepest reality is the connections the relationships the intersubjectivity out of which are individually arises individuality arises home while I mean to would you say that this is a process of evolution or is this intelligent design yes I I point out that’s in the advice thoughts that the the dial-in are the dichotomy of the confrontation between the intelligent design lists the the creationists and the standard view of evolution not the only two options in fact) are in some ways accurate and of the Lord some ways wrong it’s not that there is no intelligence and evolution again from the perspective of crimes like his since all matter or energy is intrinsically sentient has its own subjectivity has its own awareness is is our ability to make choices the life of the very start evolution not just hearing her but cosmic evolution has involved consciousness start directing the unfolding the flowing of energy through through the universe so there is an intelligence active within evolution but this is not a supernatural intelligence as the intelligent designers in the creationists assume not like there’s some God out there above transcendence to reality to the universe know the creative aspect of the universe is inherent is intrinsic to the universe itself that matter energy is intrinsically creative is intrinsically sentient is able to make choices and that is guiding its own unfolding and that the process of evolution is a consciousness within matter guiding the unfolding of matter into these normal call a flex forms so from single cells to be multicellular beings that we recognize his humans elephants and dolphins dogs and cats so to me had we tie all this mean how to tie this together mean we have sent hands consciousness and this is energy how it there there is this sense of for example when when I start to think of a place or when I start to focus my consciousness onto a certain think that being if I think about a white Honda I will start seeing white Honda’s everywhere why do something like that happened was certainly not because are creating is what home how does the casino thinking of that’s that’s pretty clear your sing them because you you’ve now programmed your attention to be more attentive to the observation of white halters US a classical psychological phenomenon understood nothing to do with the creation if that’s what you were thinking of implied there me why is why is our centime so important okay so… Tobacco make an important point is that that we were asking about why why word because most consider human consciousness to be more significant than say the consciousness of some other creatures I mentioned Euros but could also talk about whales are elephants whales and elephants can communicate over really long distances without the benefits of developing artificial technologies that humans do that that that we were quite communicate over these immense distances whales can do that without creating technologies that in the process of creation negatively affect the environment and and that pollute the environment lead to the current major crisis in the world today of global warming and climate change so that of course that’s not just apply to communications technologies applied to all industrial types of technology in general whales and dolphins and elephants and and other intelligent creatures don’t need to mess up environment in order to communicate long distances the human species does at least thinks it does and has done so it’s very easy to imagine some cosmic greater intelligence looking at our planet thinking the most intelligent species there are the ones that don’t mess up their environment and since humans have brought environments to what to your collapse that may not only destroy ourselves that all other species along with us that doesn’t strike me as the height of intelligence and certainly from a cosmic perspective be very easy to thing that that the that the cosmic lords would decide that the whales and dolphins the elephants were far more intelligent than humans human beings aren’t special companies in your book that’s one of the major blind spots in fact I will refer to it as they the mother of all blind spots the idea that humans are special it something that you applied implied a moment ago because we have the ability to create technologies and civilizations art and science of philosophy and religions guess we habitability and and in some ways that makes us stand out from other species of the point to realize is that every species by definition has something special that distinguishes it from other species otherwise it will be a distinct species so yes humans can do things that other species can’t but they can do things that we got to dolphins and that’s for example communicate through echolocation we can’t do that without developing technologies to augment our natural senses so every species is different from every other species in every species is unique and in that sense every species of special and we need to give up the idea that something especially special about human specialness that’s the that’s the hubris that’s the problem that lies of the of the foundation of the current ecological crisis we halves that somehow other it is assumed that because he was a special that we have rights not only the mind but also the right to exploit the natural environment to suit around desires and needs ingredients but the consequences of that you are not very pretty and are likely to lead to our own demise as well as the demise of many other species so we have to give up the idea that humans a special are It’s important to you or anybody else to cling onto the idea that there is something special about humans then need to recognize it is also something special about every species that’s what makes of the species and then to follow that up with the acknowledgment that there is nothing especially special about human specialness that’s the point so that sense humans are not special because every species of special you know when the questions that I had was reading your book and I think you answered it knew the end but the free will how does that work into all of this well that is in some ways the $64 trillion question does free will exists and I think the asked about his yes and no that to a great extent we as organisms there’s human organisms are like every other organism is it’s true that yes we are determined to a great extent by our past and that’s what the scientific establishment likes to persuade is is the is the case entire but it it’s while yes it is true that we are determined to a large extent by the laws of physics five genetics by biology number that accounts for the fact of consciousness and consciousness comes with the ability to be aware of possibilities and to then make choices among those possibilities and that’s were creativity comes into being and that’s were free will come and so we in addition to being determined to a great extent in the sufficiently clear state of awareness we can be a aware of the possibilities present to us and then choose among those possibilities something new that didn’t exist before and so we are not fully chained to the past through determinism yes to a large extent a lot of what we do is determine a lot of that’s very useful we don’t have to be aware of breathing and the beating of our heart for example of that happens deterministically but we do have the ability to interrupt the process of determinism so for example right now you and I will our breathing is happy naturally automatically we can choose to interrupt the process and stop rooting for a moment to and people who have greater psychophysical awareness and all soon do things like stopping the heart beating for a moment that he yogis can do quite amazing things with their mind-body connection so we can use choice in consciousness to interrupt the flow of determinism and that’s the point that gets overlooked inevitably within the scientific worldview because the scientific worldview doesn’t recognize that consciousness and choice are intrinsic to reality-based see consciousness is something that emerges miraculously of course from the complexity of matter and that’s one of the again one of the binds spots that are addressing this book is that the idea that brains produce consciousness is a nonstarter that you’re never going to get physical I’ve never been get nonphysical minor consciousness from purely physical ingredients like brain cells and nervous systems you would you say this is room some sort of computer simulated environment that were in no I would not why not because we can we can have the the experience of all embodiments and we can also have experience over consciousness be the embodiment is something that can move through space that’s it Indians in it again it comes back to one of the use of of of idealism as if there were two versions of idealism there’s the view that says both you say that only consciousness exists and then one of you says that the matter energies just an illusion and the other says no matter energy is real but is something that emanates from pure object of pure subject to my a consciousness that you’re never going to get anything truly material virtually all objective truly subjective ingredients that’s a nonstarter that’s just talking work out and then the other idea is that it will that matter energy is just an illusion that people who make that claim and I’ve met many of them literally just don’t live in the world in a way consistent with that claim they were close that eat food and drink liquids they avoid causing freeway of Solomon sought to everybody who claims of matter is an illusion actually lives of the world as though matter is very real and that they’ve got no other option if you want to live in stay saying you have to treat the physical world is real the physical world stubbornly insists on his own reality if you try to live any other way will quickly become very bruised her works you will die so people have to acknowledge the physical world is real is just no other options not even something that they can choose to do they might make the claim that met that matter is just an illusion that they will always act and behave and perform in the world as though matter is real every body without exception that I know who claims that matter is an illusion doesn’t treat matter as an illusion and I bet the same is true in your experience that you don’t know of anyone who claims that matter is illusion actually lives of the will in a way consistent with that claim the philosophers call that a performative contradiction that somebody makes a claim that their action the behavior of the performance contradicts what they claim to be the case some people claim that matter is just an illusion they actually go live in the world and the way consistent with that claim it’s a performance contradiction is that but there’s no way to logically refute that that’s one of the strengths of of that form of idealism because there’s no way to step outside the mind to know anything about and the extra mental reality is everything we know about the physical world we know We go through consciousness one of the strengths of idealism is that it is logically irrefutable because there’s no way to step outside consciousness to know anything about the physical world because everything we know about the physical world material world we know as something that shows up in consciousness so all knowledge necessarily occurs in the mind occurs in consciousness to everything we know about the physical world including the existence of the material physical world is an event that occurs in consciousness so that’s a pretty strong position to take and it’s logically irrefutable but the people who claim that therefore matter is just an illusion because everything we know about the physical material world is something that occurs in consciousness at engage in a performative contradiction wide it’s logically irrefutable it is pragmatically refutable it’s pragmatically problematic because people actually don’t with the world in a way consistent with the claim that matter is just an illusion everybody makes the claim treats matters so it’s real because I have no other choice if they want to stay alive as they say care enough you Krishna wanted to wrap up here you you’ve covered a lot a deftly recommend people check out the book for themselves blind spots 21 good reasons to think before you talk me dessert deserving one last thing that you want to getting here before you close out where we talked to interested earlier and I think it probably is something worth emphasizing that America I refer to lead the blind spot the idea that humans a special as the mother of all blind spots I think anybody with any sense of responsibility for the current situation of the world has to address the problem of climate change and the and the the the influence of human actions in producing global warming climate change and what I do in my work as I trace them back to the the the the the assumption the hubris that humans are special and usually that is defended on two grounds is defended by religious fundamentalists by saying that we are special because God injected the soul into humans and where the only creatures with souls and therefore withdrew consciousness withdrew intelligence that on the scientific side they say that humans are special because we have these special brains with a special neocortex that is responsible consciousness that if you don’t have a pineal cortex you don’t have consciousness that’s the scientific you and that’s justice as absurd as the fundamentalist few that says God injected solar consciousness into humans so both of these views and by the way of course these are religions and sciences developed by guest who like humans it’s it’s humans who come up with the rationale for defending the position that humans a special I don’t about aware of any complication of all the species of the planet getting together and and voting yes let’s make the humans the dominant species in on the planet are in the universe that never happen will happen though the idea that humans are special is a purely human generated ideas and very self-serving idea at least in the face of it in the end it would probably be our self-destruction so we need to give up the idea that humans a special and recognize that we are one species among all the other species of sentient beings and that was nothing particularly special about human weakness human specialness I love it Christian where can I working people find your work well thinking they can go to my website it’s my name Christian to Quincy.com and just for those who have a blind spot about the E the Quincy is felt the to you I and see me why a lot of people either that the coursework get through to my website if you don’t is that a Christian the spell whether the religionist ulcers Christian to Quincy.com got to the links to my books into videos articles from that websites because the connect with the wisdom Academy there are interested in mentorships are courses in consciousness studies and of course they can get my books through absorber in the local bookstore and they can see videos on YouTube that particularly videos and was Susan videos of it with the host of the show thinking about your thinking about your definition of said is a bunch of videos available on new thinking about channel on YouTube as well so there’s a lot out there I suppose the easiest way to find that the scope of my work is to do a lot of people just Google my name a metal bring up a lot of links just serve will I just want to thank you for your time think you so much for being here and sharing your thoughts factor to and I’m sorry we had such an interrupted communication this is the human experience and we are to get out of here thank you guys so much for listening


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