Transcript for Episode 157 – Conquering Fear, Addiction & Alcoholism, w/ Karla Juvonen


0:00:00.390,0:00:04.110
[Music]

0:00:01.429,0:00:06.690
welcome to the human experience podcast

0:00:04.110,0:00:08.760
the only podcast designed to fuse your

0:00:06.690,0:00:10.500
left and right brain hemispheres and

0:00:08.760,0:00:12.719
feed it the most entertaining and

0:00:10.500,0:00:15.240
mentally engaging topics on the planet

0:00:12.719,0:00:17.220
as we approach our ascent please make

0:00:15.240,0:00:19.439
sure your frontal temporal and occipital

0:00:17.220,0:00:22.080
lobes are in their full upright position

0:00:19.439,0:00:24.600
as you take your seat of consciousness

0:00:22.080,0:00:27.150
relax your senses and allow us to take

0:00:24.600,0:00:30.710
you on a journey we are the intimate

0:00:27.150,0:00:30.710
strangers thank you for listening

0:00:30.850,0:00:40.860
[Music]

0:00:34.579,0:00:41.969
boy this conversation the human

0:00:40.860,0:00:44.430
experiences in session

0:00:41.969,0:00:48.360
my name is Xavier katana my guest for

0:00:44.430,0:00:50.610
tonight is Karla Juve onin divine Karla

0:00:48.360,0:00:53.010
is an author and works as a physician’s

0:00:50.610,0:00:56.129
assistant Karla has written her first

0:00:53.010,0:00:57.780
book titled from the brink of the drink

0:00:56.129,0:01:01.020
which we’re gonna be covering this

0:00:57.780,0:01:03.090
evening in the book Karla bears it all

0:01:01.020,0:01:05.850
from the toll that addiction can have on

0:01:03.090,0:01:08.130
a person’s life and finally her victory

0:01:05.850,0:01:10.260
Karla’s mission is to help others

0:01:08.130,0:01:13.350
especially those who find themselves in

0:01:10.260,0:01:14.700
situations such as the one she’s lived

0:01:13.350,0:01:17.400
and survived

0:01:14.700,0:01:17.880
Karla it’s truly a pleasure welcome to

0:01:17.400,0:01:20.909
hxp

0:01:17.880,0:01:25.710
oh thank you so much Xavier for having

0:01:20.909,0:01:28.229
me I’m so excited I just it’s just such

0:01:25.710,0:01:31.280
a big problem and there’s just so much

0:01:28.229,0:01:33.740
stigma and so much hiding within

0:01:31.280,0:01:37.439
alcoholism and I think some major

0:01:33.740,0:01:39.390
misunderstanding regarding who can be an

0:01:37.439,0:01:42.630
alcoholic who looks like an alcoholic

0:01:39.390,0:01:44.820
and I assumed that most people who knew

0:01:42.630,0:01:48.810
me would never in a million years think

0:01:44.820,0:01:52.530
that I was an alcoholic and I was right

0:01:48.810,0:01:55.310
so putting my story out there that you

0:01:52.530,0:01:58.770
know what an educated successful woman

0:01:55.310,0:02:01.979
can indeed become a raging alcoholic and

0:01:58.770,0:02:04.890
lose almost everything but the most

0:02:01.979,0:02:08.340
important thing is that you can get it

0:02:04.890,0:02:10.860
all back and then some with entering

0:02:08.340,0:02:14.250
into a recovery and it’s just really

0:02:10.860,0:02:16.860
remarkable and I’m so happy to share my

0:02:14.250,0:02:19.980
I share in it all the time for this very

0:02:16.860,0:02:23.040
reason to try to inspire people to keep

0:02:19.980,0:02:26.130
trying to kick it because you can yeah

0:02:23.040,0:02:27.720
yeah I absolutely love that so much

0:02:26.130,0:02:30.690
and you know in the time that I’ve known

0:02:27.720,0:02:32.640
you you are you are one of the most

0:02:30.690,0:02:35.250
tenacious people that I’ve encountered

0:02:32.640,0:02:37.170
and you’re kind of like the little

0:02:35.250,0:02:39.390
Phoenix that could you know the rise

0:02:37.170,0:02:41.760
from the ashes and so you know let’s

0:02:39.390,0:02:43.620
talk this is your first book and you

0:02:41.760,0:02:47.130
know I love giving first-time authors a

0:02:43.620,0:02:49.590
chance to tell their story and we mean

0:02:47.130,0:02:50.880
we do cherry-pick this and what I

0:02:49.590,0:02:55.380
thought when I was looking at his book

0:02:50.880,0:02:58.200
was wow this woman has survived you know

0:02:55.380,0:03:01.830
every possible direction that you could

0:02:58.200,0:03:03.240
kind of cringe and hang on and wonder

0:03:01.830,0:03:05.550
what is gonna happen next

0:03:03.240,0:03:08.580
that’s what I was thinking when I when I

0:03:05.550,0:03:11.370
read this book so you know it being a

0:03:08.580,0:03:13.770
first-time author how what made you want

0:03:11.370,0:03:16.610
to write the book tell us a little bit

0:03:13.770,0:03:20.670
about your your writing process as well

0:03:16.610,0:03:23.160
sure so I had never really contemplating

0:03:20.670,0:03:25.440
writing a book I thought it would

0:03:23.160,0:03:29.520
probably be an undertaking that was far

0:03:25.440,0:03:31.680
too challenging for what I was skilled

0:03:29.520,0:03:33.840
with I have not done a lot of writing

0:03:31.680,0:03:35.550
other than the required writing and

0:03:33.840,0:03:40.200
coursework in undergrad and graduate

0:03:35.550,0:03:42.840
school but I had told my story at

0:03:40.200,0:03:47.040
nauseam really at many different places

0:03:42.840,0:03:49.740
and someone actually my first ex-husband

0:03:47.040,0:03:51.780
said you know you really should write

0:03:49.740,0:03:54.480
this because it really could help some

0:03:51.780,0:03:56.640
people and I just was like oh yeah yeah

0:03:54.480,0:03:58.860
well I don’t know about that that’s haha

0:03:56.640,0:04:01.290
and I started thinking about it some

0:03:58.860,0:04:03.150
more and I figured you know what Carla

0:04:01.290,0:04:06.090
if you can figure out a way to start the

0:04:03.150,0:04:08.760
book that would be interesting and and

0:04:06.090,0:04:11.250
kind of a hook to be like okay this

0:04:08.760,0:04:13.500
isn’t just gonna be your run-of-the-mill

0:04:11.250,0:04:14.880
this is what alcoholism is and this is

0:04:13.500,0:04:18.600
what you need to do and you have to jump

0:04:14.880,0:04:20.910
on this but it’s just more of a mmm okay

0:04:18.600,0:04:23.430
this is a story that I might be able to

0:04:20.910,0:04:25.950
relate to and so once I came up with the

0:04:23.430,0:04:27.420
big way to begin it then it was just a

0:04:25.950,0:04:29.730
matter of my jotted down and

0:04:27.420,0:04:31.500
line filled in the blanks and it was

0:04:29.730,0:04:34.670
written in three weeks I just came

0:04:31.500,0:04:37.500
pouring out very cathartic and actually

0:04:34.670,0:04:39.330
even if it had never gotten to anyone

0:04:37.500,0:04:43.230
else it was actually a great exercise

0:04:39.330,0:04:45.540
for myself yeah I mean it has to be that

0:04:43.230,0:04:47.520
it has to be a type of catharsis to

0:04:45.540,0:04:51.240
write that all down and look back at it

0:04:47.520,0:04:53.580
and you know just a self actualize in a

0:04:51.240,0:04:56.070
way this this sort of journey that

0:04:53.580,0:04:57.810
you’ve taken and I mean as it turns out

0:04:56.070,0:04:59.870
you’ve art you’ve already you’ve almost

0:04:57.810,0:05:02.700
captured lightning in a bottle here and

0:04:59.870,0:05:04.640
your publisher is giving you you know

0:05:02.700,0:05:07.560
you’re working on your second book now

0:05:04.640,0:05:10.800
yes it’s in editing already as we speak

0:05:07.560,0:05:14.010
actually so Wow okay okay so let’s let’s

0:05:10.800,0:05:16.290
get into from the brink of the drink you

0:05:14.010,0:05:18.210
know there’s we were talking about this

0:05:16.290,0:05:21.180
a little bit in the pre-show you know

0:05:18.210,0:05:23.730
there’s such a stigma to people who

0:05:21.180,0:05:25.800
suffer from this disease and you know

0:05:23.730,0:05:28.800
where do you think that comes from that

0:05:25.800,0:05:33.990
that’s Digman that society labels us as

0:05:28.800,0:05:35.460
I think it started simply from being

0:05:33.990,0:05:39.720
ingrained that it’s a choice that the

0:05:35.460,0:05:42.210
first that the the first drink you take

0:05:39.720,0:05:47.670
is a choice and that is true so I think

0:05:42.210,0:05:51.830
it’s just that people look at it as if

0:05:47.670,0:05:56.040
you know there’s a problem and we I

0:05:51.830,0:06:01.260
don’t know it’s a problem that was

0:05:56.040,0:06:03.240
choice be initiated so it should be a

0:06:01.260,0:06:05.430
problem that they just can just fix

0:06:03.240,0:06:07.530
right like it’s seen I don’t know it’s

0:06:05.430,0:06:09.720
hard to put into words why the stigma is

0:06:07.530,0:06:12.210
such but I really think it comes down to

0:06:09.720,0:06:14.370
the idea that it’s a moral failing that

0:06:12.210,0:06:16.590
people drink they couldn’t stop drinking

0:06:14.370,0:06:17.970
because there is somehow less then they

0:06:16.590,0:06:19.500
were a bad person

0:06:17.970,0:06:21.090
they were the grungy old guy under the

0:06:19.500,0:06:24.060
bridge with a paper bag around his

0:06:21.090,0:06:26.490
bottle you know they got on Skid Row

0:06:24.060,0:06:29.250
because of their own life choices and so

0:06:26.490,0:06:31.770
let’s cast them away we certainly don’t

0:06:29.250,0:06:34.350
want to catch what they have we don’t

0:06:31.770,0:06:35.850
want them a part of our society we

0:06:34.350,0:06:38.670
certainly wouldn’t want them practicing

0:06:35.850,0:06:40.770
medicine and I think that it just

0:06:38.670,0:06:41.139
becomes a situation where because of

0:06:40.770,0:06:46.300
that

0:06:41.139,0:06:49.090
my professionals particularly medical

0:06:46.300,0:06:51.840
professionals and pilots really are

0:06:49.090,0:06:54.779
reluctant to even seek treatment or help

0:06:51.840,0:06:57.490
because it can be career-ending

0:06:54.779,0:06:59.169
absolutely and I mean a lot of this I

0:06:57.490,0:07:01.029
think what you’re hinting at is also is

0:06:59.169,0:07:03.939
a lot of people are functional

0:07:01.029,0:07:06.219
alcoholics and you know they’re they’re

0:07:03.939,0:07:08.949
kind of taking a drink and living life

0:07:06.219,0:07:12.460
and you know they’re they’re functioning

0:07:08.949,0:07:14.229
you know every day so it’s such a

0:07:12.460,0:07:17.590
strange thing you know and I and I think

0:07:14.229,0:07:19.810
another reason that we connected was you

0:07:17.590,0:07:22.870
know of dr. Gabor Montez work and he’s

0:07:19.810,0:07:25.389
been on the show and a lot of this you

0:07:22.870,0:07:29.710
know stems from childhood which kind of

0:07:25.389,0:07:32.409
segues me into the book you know you

0:07:29.710,0:07:35.050
started this process of sort of running

0:07:32.409,0:07:38.110
away from your problems and you know

0:07:35.050,0:07:40.150
using using alcohol and very early on in

0:07:38.110,0:07:42.669
your childhood how did that start from

0:07:40.150,0:07:45.039
you for you and you know where did this

0:07:42.669,0:07:49.689
where did this process begin of using

0:07:45.039,0:07:52.060
alcohol in a destructive way for me it

0:07:49.689,0:07:54.729
was destructive from the get-go I

0:07:52.060,0:07:55.930
remember my first taste of alcohol I was

0:07:54.729,0:07:58.539
a little girl and I had the chickenpox

0:07:55.930,0:08:01.300
and I had them everywhere including in

0:07:58.539,0:08:03.839
my mouth and throat and my parents made

0:08:01.300,0:08:05.830
me and my sister

0:08:03.839,0:08:10.449
grasshoppers with you creme de menthe

0:08:05.830,0:08:14.110
the whole thing and it did help soothe

0:08:10.449,0:08:17.560
my throat but more importantly I was

0:08:14.110,0:08:19.719
able to sleep and from the get-go in my

0:08:17.560,0:08:23.589
life as an infant as a toddler and

0:08:19.719,0:08:27.009
really through till today sleep has been

0:08:23.589,0:08:29.649
a real challenge for me and so I noticed

0:08:27.009,0:08:32.469
but that really helped fast for just a

0:08:29.649,0:08:35.709
couple of years and I had really been

0:08:32.469,0:08:37.959
watching my parents they drank but they

0:08:35.709,0:08:41.140
only drank socially here and there

0:08:37.959,0:08:43.570
they’d get friends all the kids would be

0:08:41.140,0:08:45.670
involved we’d play games and have a good

0:08:43.570,0:08:47.949
time and I could totally see something

0:08:45.670,0:08:49.720
change something switching the adults

0:08:47.949,0:08:52.930
where they got a little sillier they

0:08:49.720,0:08:55.300
laughed a little loud everyone was less

0:08:52.930,0:08:57.040
uptight and I told

0:08:55.300,0:08:59.410
I noticed that because I wanted some of

0:08:57.040,0:09:02.200
that I wanted some of that piece or that

0:08:59.410,0:09:04.630
relaxed or that decreased

0:09:02.200,0:09:07.209
self-consciousness that I could see even

0:09:04.630,0:09:10.570
from a very young age that was helpful

0:09:07.209,0:09:12.160
for them and so I I kind of made a plan

0:09:10.570,0:09:13.990
and and thought well I wonder if this

0:09:12.160,0:09:17.260
will be helpful for me and it certainly

0:09:13.990,0:09:20.860
was the the first night that I decided

0:09:17.260,0:09:24.640
this is what I’m going to try I was 12

0:09:20.860,0:09:27.550
years old and my parents had a liquor

0:09:24.640,0:09:30.190
cabinet in my dad’s office and it was

0:09:27.550,0:09:31.540
actually a closet a small closet but you

0:09:30.190,0:09:34.180
could walk into it turn on the light

0:09:31.540,0:09:36.130
shut the door that kind of thing and I

0:09:34.180,0:09:36.760
had had a particularly stressful day at

0:09:36.130,0:09:38.350
school

0:09:36.760,0:09:39.790
trying to be perfect and getting

0:09:38.350,0:09:41.529
straight A’s and doing everything I was

0:09:39.790,0:09:43.839
supposed to be doing and that was my

0:09:41.529,0:09:45.610
first high school year and in my little

0:09:43.839,0:09:47.200
town seventh through twelfth grade was

0:09:45.610,0:09:49.540
high school and high school was a hard

0:09:47.200,0:09:52.329
transition I think it is for almost

0:09:49.540,0:09:54.250
every church but I was feeling pressure

0:09:52.329,0:09:56.740
and stress and so I snuck in there with

0:09:54.250,0:09:58.870
a little tiny juice glass and gin was

0:09:56.740,0:10:00.880
what they had the most of so I just

0:09:58.870,0:10:03.160
poured two ounces into my little juice

0:10:00.880,0:10:05.110
glass then I went into the kitchen and

0:10:03.160,0:10:07.510
grabbed what I could find that was sweet

0:10:05.110,0:10:12.970
and it happened to be ironically ginger

0:10:07.510,0:10:15.339
snaps and I took my my my medicine I

0:10:12.970,0:10:18.190
guess my gin and my ginger snaps down to

0:10:15.339,0:10:20.980
my room and sipped and snacked until I

0:10:18.190,0:10:24.250
fell blissfully asleep and that was how

0:10:20.980,0:10:29.680
it started the beginning of the end yes

0:10:24.250,0:10:32.410
I mean for me it isn’t for everyone some

0:10:29.680,0:10:34.149
some have issues with blackout drinking

0:10:32.410,0:10:38.020
and things you know first time they used

0:10:34.149,0:10:40.630
that wasn’t the trajectory for me uh-huh

0:10:38.020,0:10:43.779
you know it’s amazing that you know this

0:10:40.630,0:10:46.270
this compound this drug is available on

0:10:43.779,0:10:49.870
any street corner that you go to you can

0:10:46.270,0:10:52.630
go and find find this substance and you

0:10:49.870,0:10:55.089
know so it’s interesting and you know

0:10:52.630,0:10:57.220
with with prohibition that happened it

0:10:55.089,0:10:59.769
it’s I mean it’s they’ve tried to

0:10:57.220,0:11:03.910
regulate this but you know it it seems

0:10:59.769,0:11:05.800
like people use this as as a way to you

0:11:03.910,0:11:08.290
know loosen up sometimes if they’re

0:11:05.800,0:11:08.830
feeling nervous and they don’t really

0:11:08.290,0:11:10.600
recognize

0:11:08.830,0:11:12.550
you know the harm that they’re doing the

0:11:10.600,0:11:14.740
conditioning that they’re setting you

0:11:12.550,0:11:16.630
know this this substance sort of

0:11:14.740,0:11:18.870
conditioning where they need a substance

0:11:16.630,0:11:22.750
to you know function at some point and

0:11:18.870,0:11:25.750
you know when did you go from drinking I

0:11:22.750,0:11:28.930
mean you started as a kid in high school

0:11:25.750,0:11:31.480
and and that’s when and that’s when you

0:11:28.930,0:11:34.120
took that first you know drink but as

0:11:31.480,0:11:35.470
you progressed into college how how does

0:11:34.120,0:11:39.010
that work you were doing your master’s

0:11:35.470,0:11:41.920
program and you know were you drinking

0:11:39.010,0:11:46.720
by yourself again or how did it work

0:11:41.920,0:11:50.410
yeah I always drink by myself because I

0:11:46.720,0:11:52.870
found it to be safer I didn’t want the

0:11:50.410,0:11:54.399
headaches of the party at the you know

0:11:52.870,0:11:55.779
University of Minnesota with bunch of

0:11:54.399,0:11:58.269
people he didn’t know and potentially

0:11:55.779,0:12:00.399
drugs and trouble and cops and I just

0:11:58.269,0:12:02.890
know so the risk of getting a mine or

0:12:00.399,0:12:04.060
the risk of getting in trouble in one

0:12:02.890,0:12:06.250
way or another either with the police or

0:12:04.060,0:12:08.019
with my parents or with the school that

0:12:06.250,0:12:10.360
was enough of a deterrent for me to

0:12:08.019,0:12:12.279
decide this one I loved but there’s what

0:12:10.360,0:12:15.640
I’m gonna do for the most part by myself

0:12:12.279,0:12:16.779
and it was very very functional for me

0:12:15.640,0:12:20.290
for a long time

0:12:16.779,0:12:22.810
in college I I would get all my studies

0:12:20.290,0:12:25.450
done I carried two part-time jobs I go

0:12:22.810,0:12:27.250
do what I needed to do but then at night

0:12:25.450,0:12:30.040
when it was finally time to go to sleep

0:12:27.250,0:12:32.950
I had my bottle of brandy right next to

0:12:30.040,0:12:36.160
my bed kind of tucked underneath it and

0:12:32.950,0:12:39.010
I would take a few pulls off of that and

0:12:36.160,0:12:40.570
that would would do it and I would get

0:12:39.010,0:12:42.010
up get up the next morning not hungover

0:12:40.570,0:12:42.610
or anything because I hadn’t gotten

0:12:42.010,0:12:46.329
drunk

0:12:42.610,0:12:49.060
I had just relaxed and and then that’s

0:12:46.329,0:12:51.510
an insidious pattern because with

0:12:49.060,0:12:54.100
alcohol just like almost every substance

0:12:51.510,0:12:56.410
eventually you need more of it to get

0:12:54.100,0:12:58.750
that same effect and then it’s also easy

0:12:56.410,0:13:00.160
to kind of overshoot because I want to

0:12:58.750,0:13:01.990
get that relaxed and not feeling I’m

0:13:00.160,0:13:03.640
getting it fast enough and so I’ll drink

0:13:01.990,0:13:05.230
more than I did before and then tomorrow

0:13:03.640,0:13:08.260
night I might eat even a few drops more

0:13:05.230,0:13:11.620
and over year years and years that just

0:13:08.260,0:13:15.160
progresses in some people like me into a

0:13:11.620,0:13:17.949
really serious serious problem hmm yeah

0:13:15.160,0:13:20.440
I I definitely you know can understand

0:13:17.949,0:13:21.190
that but it’s it’s odd to me because

0:13:20.440,0:13:23.110
it’s

0:13:21.190,0:13:25.210
it’s kind of like a parallel you know of

0:13:23.110,0:13:28.000
other people I would think that they

0:13:25.210,0:13:30.070
start drinking socially and then move to

0:13:28.000,0:13:31.690
drinking alone when they’re trying to

0:13:30.070,0:13:33.760
cover up their problems or the way they

0:13:31.690,0:13:35.230
feel about something but you know it’s

0:13:33.760,0:13:37.030
it’s funny to me that you had this

0:13:35.230,0:13:37.690
thought well I don’t want to get in

0:13:37.030,0:13:39.640
trouble

0:13:37.690,0:13:42.760
with these other things so I’ll just

0:13:39.640,0:13:45.220
kind of drink by myself oh yeah sneaky

0:13:42.760,0:13:46.120
and sort of manipulative from the from

0:13:45.220,0:13:47.950
the get-go

0:13:46.120,0:13:50.560
it wasn’t that I really didn’t want to

0:13:47.950,0:13:54.550
be social but I just didn’t want to get

0:13:50.560,0:13:57.130
in trouble huh but I mean it did lead to

0:13:54.550,0:14:00.250
that and so just just moving forward in

0:13:57.130,0:14:03.040
the timeline a bit you you got into a

0:14:00.250,0:14:05.980
relationship and you know I want to talk

0:14:03.040,0:14:07.930
about this because I think when we are

0:14:05.980,0:14:10.900
in these types of relationships that are

0:14:07.930,0:14:14.830
mutually destructive I think it can be

0:14:10.900,0:14:17.170
hard to recognize that really so tell us

0:14:14.830,0:14:20.050
about a little bit about you know this

0:14:17.170,0:14:22.360
this relationship you were in and the

0:14:20.050,0:14:26.860
marriage and how that worked how that

0:14:22.360,0:14:31.240
dynamic works yeah yeah absolutely well

0:14:26.860,0:14:33.340
I met Jim in our graduate studies for a

0:14:31.240,0:14:37.510
physician assistant master’s degrees in

0:14:33.340,0:14:40.060
Iowa’s Iowa City and my undergrad had

0:14:37.510,0:14:43.330
been at a Christian college they were

0:14:40.060,0:14:46.930
all studying to be parochial school

0:14:43.330,0:14:50.080
teachers or pastors or whomever and who

0:14:46.930,0:14:52.000
I was the only one there that seemingly

0:14:50.080,0:14:54.400
the drink I was the only one there that

0:14:52.000,0:14:57.880
wasn’t a virgin I was the only one there

0:14:54.400,0:15:00.460
that was less than in my own mind and so

0:14:57.880,0:15:02.590
that’s another reason I kind of kept my

0:15:00.460,0:15:04.690
drinking to myself during undergrad and

0:15:02.590,0:15:07.360
I wouldn’t have chosen such a

0:15:04.690,0:15:09.130
conservative school I had I not been

0:15:07.360,0:15:11.920
given a scholarship to go there so that

0:15:09.130,0:15:14.680
sort of made the decision an easy one

0:15:11.920,0:15:17.410
but it wasn’t an easy three years of

0:15:14.680,0:15:18.760
time in fact I say three years because I

0:15:17.410,0:15:20.650
powered through it as fast as I could

0:15:18.760,0:15:22.960
because I really didn’t care for it it

0:15:20.650,0:15:24.660
wasn’t an environment that worked for me

0:15:22.960,0:15:27.280
for me I certainly couldn’t be myself

0:15:24.660,0:15:29.170
and so I was hiding for a number of

0:15:27.280,0:15:31.089
reasons but that’s but that was one of

0:15:29.170,0:15:34.060
them but when I got to the University of

0:15:31.089,0:15:34.720
Iowa that’s a big ten you know big

0:15:34.060,0:15:37.540
school

0:15:34.720,0:15:39.790
Iowa City’s college town so much fun

0:15:37.540,0:15:42.519
restaurants and bars and nightlife and

0:15:39.790,0:15:44.680
everything catering to the graduate

0:15:42.519,0:15:47.649
students and older undergraduate

0:15:44.680,0:15:51.069
students and I was struggling with our

0:15:47.649,0:15:54.519
first summer we had a really really

0:15:51.069,0:15:56.350
tricky biochemistry course and we were

0:15:54.519,0:15:59.139
going through the Krebs cycle and

0:15:56.350,0:16:01.509
diabetes and glucose and insulin and how

0:15:59.139,0:16:04.600
this all works and it was really hard

0:16:01.509,0:16:07.000
for me but I met Jim and Jim was also a

0:16:04.600,0:16:08.500
Minnesota native and at that point there

0:16:07.000,0:16:11.800
weren’t very many PA programs in the

0:16:08.500,0:16:15.100
country so people were from all over the

0:16:11.800,0:16:18.250
country so he and I sort of met and

0:16:15.100,0:16:20.470
became friends just simply because we

0:16:18.250,0:16:22.060
were both Minnesotans but then he had

0:16:20.470,0:16:25.990
recently graduated from about from a

0:16:22.060,0:16:28.660
biochemistry program so this biochem

0:16:25.990,0:16:31.000
class was his cake for him and he was

0:16:28.660,0:16:33.189
also a fantastic teacher and loved to

0:16:31.000,0:16:35.709
sit down and go through it and and share

0:16:33.189,0:16:39.509
and he teach and so that’s how it began

0:16:35.709,0:16:42.579
he agreed to kind of tutor me and we

0:16:39.509,0:16:46.620
studied hard and I got it I passed it

0:16:42.579,0:16:48.910
that type of thing but we also begin to

0:16:46.620,0:16:52.029
realize eli’s how much we had in common

0:16:48.910,0:16:55.000
we laughed a lot we studied hard and

0:16:52.029,0:16:58.360
then we drank hard and I could tell

0:16:55.000,0:17:00.670
right away that Jim was just as heavy of

0:16:58.360,0:17:04.659
a drinker as I was if not even heavier

0:17:00.670,0:17:06.459
and that was so refreshing to me it

0:17:04.659,0:17:08.650
should have been it enough but instead

0:17:06.459,0:17:11.500
it was refreshing because I felt like oh

0:17:08.650,0:17:13.959
thank god I can drink how I want it out

0:17:11.500,0:17:17.169
in the open with him and normalized it

0:17:13.959,0:17:19.299
and yes it normalized it because he was

0:17:17.169,0:17:22.929
using just as much more and people with

0:17:19.299,0:17:24.939
substance disorders tend to do that you

0:17:22.929,0:17:26.500
know that you’ll see the the ones on

0:17:24.939,0:17:29.850
Skid Row are kind of congregated

0:17:26.500,0:17:33.400
together in a drug house or whatever

0:17:29.850,0:17:35.860
like likes like it just simply does you

0:17:33.400,0:17:37.720
know a smoker will typically seek out

0:17:35.860,0:17:39.789
another smoker to be in their

0:17:37.720,0:17:43.330
relationship within their romantic

0:17:39.789,0:17:46.600
relationship with anyway because it’s

0:17:43.330,0:17:48.150
pretty challenging to have one with it

0:17:46.600,0:17:52.350
and one without

0:17:48.150,0:17:56.490
and so for for me it did it gave me sort

0:17:52.350,0:17:59.970
of a license to ha drink how I wanted to

0:17:56.490,0:18:02.100
and it gave him the same license in

0:17:59.970,0:18:04.220
Reverse and because it sort of

0:18:02.100,0:18:08.100
normalized it for us it just kept

0:18:04.220,0:18:11.070
insidiously getting to be more more

0:18:08.100,0:18:14.100
frequent we went from just in the

0:18:11.070,0:18:17.460
evenings to okay we’ll do evenings and

0:18:14.100,0:18:19.380
and Saturdays during the days because we

0:18:17.460,0:18:20.700
lived on the lake and people would come

0:18:19.380,0:18:22.350
over and go boating and whatever we

0:18:20.700,0:18:26.190
could use for an excuse to drink we’d do

0:18:22.350,0:18:27.750
it and then pretty soon it was as soon

0:18:26.190,0:18:30.180
as we walked in the door door at night

0:18:27.750,0:18:32.820
and it was all weekend long and it’s

0:18:30.180,0:18:37.560
over over time that just kind of became

0:18:32.820,0:18:40.620
this gradual march to death by alcohol

0:18:37.560,0:18:43.980
and and I just didn’t see it and I

0:18:40.620,0:18:46.500
certainly didn’t want to see it because

0:18:43.980,0:18:49.320
as as the book shows later on that

0:18:46.500,0:18:53.610
marriage fells fell apart which will

0:18:49.320,0:18:55.800
happen if there are three entities

0:18:53.610,0:18:57.810
within a union it just doesn’t work very

0:18:55.800,0:18:59.790
well Princess Diana used to say that

0:18:57.810,0:19:01.290
about Prince Charles and her marriage

0:18:59.790,0:19:03.890
that there were three of us in this

0:19:01.290,0:19:06.600
marriage because of his involvement

0:19:03.890,0:19:08.580
continuously with Camilla and I feel

0:19:06.600,0:19:10.410
like that was the case with with our

0:19:08.580,0:19:13.230
marriage there were three of us from the

0:19:10.410,0:19:17.430
get-go and really the God in our

0:19:13.230,0:19:20.010
relationship was was spoo’s and it’s

0:19:17.430,0:19:22.620
just not a very solid foundation to base

0:19:20.010,0:19:25.620
your relationship on absolutely not I

0:19:22.620,0:19:28.980
mean what a dangerous mix of different

0:19:25.620,0:19:31.860
elements that you could lead to you know

0:19:28.980,0:19:34.280
such an explosive state which it kind of

0:19:31.860,0:19:37.320
did you know moving along in the story

0:19:34.280,0:19:39.710
but you know I just want to pause here

0:19:37.320,0:19:41.580
for a second and you know see if we can

0:19:39.710,0:19:44.040
give the crowd

0:19:41.580,0:19:46.080
different ways you know to recognize

0:19:44.040,0:19:47.550
this I mean maybe there is someone out

0:19:46.080,0:19:49.410
there listening to this and perhaps

0:19:47.550,0:19:51.600
they’re in a relationship where this is

0:19:49.410,0:19:55.260
going on you know and you know I think

0:19:51.600,0:19:56.850
what you said rings so true that you

0:19:55.260,0:19:58.860
know you weren’t just in a relationship

0:19:56.850,0:20:01.260
with Jim you were also also in a

0:19:58.860,0:20:02.130
relationship with alcohol and it was

0:20:01.260,0:20:04.410
like you know

0:20:02.130,0:20:07.530
you guys had this love triangle with you

0:20:04.410,0:20:10.830
know drinking together and each other

0:20:07.530,0:20:13.710
and you know I’m just wondering was is

0:20:10.830,0:20:16.530
there anything in your mind that maybe

0:20:13.710,0:20:18.840
if you could go back and talk to your

0:20:16.530,0:20:21.450
younger self that you would tell

0:20:18.840,0:20:24.450
yourself like you know this is this is

0:20:21.450,0:20:25.820
what you need to watch out for well

0:20:24.450,0:20:28.680
absolutely

0:20:25.820,0:20:32.910
the first thing there is if you’re in a

0:20:28.680,0:20:36.390
relationship or contemplating getting

0:20:32.910,0:20:38.550
into a relationship and one of the main

0:20:36.390,0:20:40.110
reasons is that you feel relief that you

0:20:38.550,0:20:42.330
won’t have to hide something that you

0:20:40.110,0:20:46.050
otherwise do I mean that’s a giant red

0:20:42.330,0:20:48.980
flag right there but for me and anyone I

0:20:46.050,0:20:51.510
think who’s already abusing substances

0:20:48.980,0:20:53.460
you also feel pretty crappy about

0:20:51.510,0:20:57.900
yourself you feel pretty lonely and so

0:20:53.460,0:21:00.420
it’s very easy to glom on and settle for

0:20:57.900,0:21:03.210
something that isn’t necessarily right

0:21:00.420,0:21:06.870
and I ignored so many red flags Jim was

0:21:03.210,0:21:10.710
actually married to someone else when I

0:21:06.870,0:21:13.200
met him in Iowa City and we proceeded to

0:21:10.710,0:21:15.510
become friends and then more than

0:21:13.200,0:21:18.390
friends and he ultimately divorced her

0:21:15.510,0:21:20.870
and married me him being married should

0:21:18.390,0:21:24.390
have been a giant red flag right yeah

0:21:20.870,0:21:26.880
you know and and in him having

0:21:24.390,0:21:29.070
tendencies even early in our

0:21:26.880,0:21:31.740
relationship to become the angry drop

0:21:29.070,0:21:37.410
the explosive drunk the punch holes in

0:21:31.740,0:21:40.730
doors drunk I should have mmm no way but

0:21:37.410,0:21:44.310
I married him and even on our honeymoon

0:21:40.730,0:21:45.480
we we were drinking the whole time of

0:21:44.310,0:21:49.010
course many people do on their

0:21:45.480,0:21:51.510
honeymoons but for us we used it as a

0:21:49.010,0:21:53.430
reason that we should be hammered every

0:21:51.510,0:21:55.680
single day for the two weeks that we

0:21:53.430,0:21:59.760
were there and the first night very

0:21:55.680,0:22:02.850
first night we drank way too much and we

0:21:59.760,0:22:05.790
ordered room service late at night and I

0:22:02.850,0:22:09.450
passed out before the room service

0:22:05.790,0:22:13.080
showed up and he was so furious fueled

0:22:09.450,0:22:16.050
by alcohol theory this wasn’t how he

0:22:13.080,0:22:19.230
really was but you know that he ended up

0:22:16.050,0:22:20.700
waking me up by throwing all of the food

0:22:19.230,0:22:23.100
and the everything the bottles

0:22:20.700,0:22:26.130
everything all around the room so I I

0:22:23.100,0:22:27.630
took a blanket and pillow and barricaded

0:22:26.130,0:22:30.810
myself in the bathroom on the first

0:22:27.630,0:22:34.950
night of my honeymoon but instead of

0:22:30.810,0:22:36.420
yeah instead of eating crow tucking my

0:22:34.950,0:22:38.070
tail between my legs telling my folks

0:22:36.420,0:22:38.850
that yeah yeah you just spent 12 grand

0:22:38.070,0:22:41.340
for nothing

0:22:38.850,0:22:45.630
I want out which is what I should have

0:22:41.340,0:22:48.690
done I didn’t want to embarrass myself I

0:22:45.630,0:22:51.750
didn’t want them to know that I had made

0:22:48.690,0:22:56.640
a bad choice even though they already

0:22:51.750,0:22:58.860
knew it and and I mean we just kept

0:22:56.640,0:23:01.830
doing our thing and kept covering it and

0:22:58.860,0:23:06.090
kept plodding along and if it sounds

0:23:01.830,0:23:09.090
like Jim is a bad man he is not he’s

0:23:06.090,0:23:12.750
funny and he’s charismatic he’s scary

0:23:09.090,0:23:15.060
smart he can speak and he’s a professor

0:23:12.750,0:23:18.240
and he’s such a great teacher and he’s

0:23:15.060,0:23:21.660
so talented and a lot of things so I

0:23:18.240,0:23:24.630
don’t I guess I don’t regret that I know

0:23:21.660,0:23:28.260
him and that I knew him what I regret is

0:23:24.630,0:23:31.080
us not getting ourselves together before

0:23:28.260,0:23:33.660
we contemplated actually moving forward

0:23:31.080,0:23:37.140
any further in our relationship because

0:23:33.660,0:23:38.400
had we quit drinking either we would

0:23:37.140,0:23:41.280
have decided we didn’t have that much in

0:23:38.400,0:23:43.740
common or I think our relationship would

0:23:41.280,0:23:45.120
have been much better in the long run

0:23:43.740,0:23:46.910
you know we have two beautiful kids

0:23:45.120,0:23:50.280
together and now Jim has just celebrated

0:23:46.910,0:23:55.470
just about to celebrate two years of

0:23:50.280,0:23:57.150
sobriety which is fantastic and so you

0:23:55.470,0:23:59.720
know it has really come full circle and

0:23:57.150,0:24:02.490
we’re able to co-parent the kids and I

0:23:59.720,0:24:05.040
gave him his one-year chip I’ve invited

0:24:02.490,0:24:07.020
him to my meetings and talk about what

0:24:05.040,0:24:08.610
sobriety can bring if you’re out there

0:24:07.020,0:24:11.900
wondering if you’ll be better or worse

0:24:08.610,0:24:14.490
if you get sober it might take some time

0:24:11.900,0:24:18.090
to figure out what your new normal is

0:24:14.490,0:24:21.270
but it’s so possible and anything can

0:24:18.090,0:24:23.010
happen Jim and I are friends we

0:24:21.270,0:24:24.960
practically tried to kill each other

0:24:23.010,0:24:28.770
when we were getting divorce and now we

0:24:24.960,0:24:31.320
are friends because we’re both sober hmm

0:24:28.770,0:24:33.690
yeah I mean wow that’s it’s such a

0:24:31.320,0:24:35.790
powerful thing to hear about because I

0:24:33.690,0:24:38.100
think most of the time we don’t realize

0:24:35.790,0:24:41.190
like when we are when we are

0:24:38.100,0:24:44.670
subjectively in a situation that is Oh

0:24:41.190,0:24:46.800
in overall negative for us we don’t we

0:24:44.670,0:24:50.010
don’t immediately recognize that it is

0:24:46.800,0:24:51.960
that you know or if we don’t if we do we

0:24:50.010,0:24:53.280
don’t want to acknowledge that you know

0:24:51.960,0:24:57.480
we don’t want to admit it to ourselves

0:24:53.280,0:25:01.320
and so adding adding alcohol to that I

0:24:57.480,0:25:04.470
think is a very dangerous mix of you

0:25:01.320,0:25:06.780
know a very already toxic sort of

0:25:04.470,0:25:08.220
situation you know Carla I want to talk

0:25:06.780,0:25:10.470
about someone someone mentioned this in

0:25:08.220,0:25:13.620
the chat and I I want to I want to talk

0:25:10.470,0:25:15.570
about the neural chemistry of this you

0:25:13.620,0:25:17.850
know I think when when you’re in love

0:25:15.570,0:25:20.100
you know your neuro chemistry is already

0:25:17.850,0:25:23.280
sort of going you know in all directions

0:25:20.100,0:25:25.710
but you know when you add alcohol to

0:25:23.280,0:25:28.440
this what is alcohol doing to the brain

0:25:25.710,0:25:33.740
when we’re more drinking you know kind

0:25:28.440,0:25:38.280
of in this way right well exactly it’s

0:25:33.740,0:25:41.040
in most simple terms when you drink or

0:25:38.280,0:25:44.370
use any kind of substance certain

0:25:41.040,0:25:47.250
neurotransmitters in your brain are

0:25:44.370,0:25:48.900
fired up so everyone’s heard about

0:25:47.250,0:25:50.340
dopamine and serotonin and there’s also

0:25:48.900,0:25:54.230
gaba and glutamine and all these

0:25:50.340,0:25:58.050
different pathways and different

0:25:54.230,0:26:01.200
neurotransmitters that help to their

0:25:58.050,0:26:05.160
messengers so they send one message in

0:26:01.200,0:26:09.000
to another neurotransmitter in the brain

0:26:05.160,0:26:11.040
dopamine helps you with your your mood

0:26:09.000,0:26:14.390
and it helps with learning and it helps

0:26:11.040,0:26:17.100
with movement and pleasure and serotonin

0:26:14.390,0:26:19.170
increases people’s mood increases their

0:26:17.100,0:26:22.260
appetite helps with sleep all those

0:26:19.170,0:26:24.090
things and when you’re in love you’re

0:26:22.260,0:26:26.910
getting some natural surges of those

0:26:24.090,0:26:29.280
hormones or killer chemicals I should

0:26:26.910,0:26:32.100
say when you’re when you’re drinking

0:26:29.280,0:26:35.250
you’re also releasing massive amounts of

0:26:32.100,0:26:36.780
dopamine and serotonin and then of

0:26:35.250,0:26:38.850
course there’s the inevitable when you

0:26:36.780,0:26:40.769
win it you starts to wear off you have

0:26:38.850,0:26:43.179
this awful crash

0:26:40.769,0:26:47.799
we’re either you have to get through

0:26:43.179,0:26:49.720
some time without your drink or you just

0:26:47.799,0:26:52.119
say forget it and go ahead and start

0:26:49.720,0:26:54.639
drinking and decrease your standard a

0:26:52.119,0:26:56.109
little bit more okay I was gonna start

0:26:54.639,0:26:57.970
drinking only at 5:00 now I’m gonna

0:26:56.109,0:26:58.749
start at 4:00 or 55 because I just can’t

0:26:57.970,0:27:01.269
take it anymore

0:26:58.749,0:27:03.309
and you kind of change the change your

0:27:01.269,0:27:05.769
own rules based on that so basically

0:27:03.309,0:27:07.119
when you get a relationship let’s say

0:27:05.769,0:27:10.179
that’s the fire so Jim and I are earth

0:27:07.119,0:27:12.700
fire and and alcohols obviously that the

0:27:10.179,0:27:14.710
fuel when you put that on you’ll get

0:27:12.700,0:27:18.309
that surge of flame at the beginning

0:27:14.710,0:27:20.590
that is just so addictive and so amazing

0:27:18.309,0:27:22.960
and oh my god do you want more and then

0:27:20.590,0:27:25.119
when you crash it’s just like and

0:27:22.960,0:27:27.960
there’s not even embers anymore fire

0:27:25.119,0:27:29.169
just goes out it’s done it’s dead it’s

0:27:27.960,0:27:31.090
awful

0:27:29.169,0:27:33.580
so the highs and lows in a relationship

0:27:31.090,0:27:35.830
like that are addictive in themselves

0:27:33.580,0:27:38.379
but when you add alcohol to it the

0:27:35.830,0:27:41.109
swings are even greater and it’s just

0:27:38.379,0:27:43.749
nearly impossible to find a time in a

0:27:41.109,0:27:47.679
relationship like that to actually have

0:27:43.749,0:27:51.070
coherent logical conversations or to

0:27:47.679,0:27:53.409
make decisions wisely it’s just sort of

0:27:51.070,0:27:56.220
crashing through life hoping that there

0:27:53.409,0:27:59.169
isn’t an explosion at some point but

0:27:56.220,0:28:01.869
inevitably there usually is unless you

0:27:59.169,0:28:05.499
can get a hold on it Wow

0:28:01.869,0:28:07.989
I mean yeah it seems like just a series

0:28:05.499,0:28:10.269
of near escapes and you know you’re

0:28:07.989,0:28:14.859
you’re avoiding sort of inevitable

0:28:10.269,0:28:17.080
tragedy and I mean wow it’s it’s a it’s

0:28:14.859,0:28:20.739
amazing to hear about this from you know

0:28:17.080,0:28:23.649
perspective like yours in in February of

0:28:20.739,0:28:26.979
2012 there was an event in your life

0:28:23.649,0:28:29.049
that you know for most people it’s gonna

0:28:26.979,0:28:31.090
be hard to deal with an event like this

0:28:29.049,0:28:34.659
what what happened in your life in

0:28:31.090,0:28:36.700
February 2012 and how did you know the

0:28:34.659,0:28:40.149
drinking aspect of things come into play

0:28:36.700,0:28:42.159
with with what happened yeah absolutely

0:28:40.149,0:28:43.840
I’ll apologize up front if I get a

0:28:42.159,0:28:47.409
little choked up with this one it’s a

0:28:43.840,0:28:49.359
tough one for me my cousin she was four

0:28:47.409,0:28:52.149
years older than me so at the time she

0:28:49.359,0:28:54.340
was 43 I had been in her wedding you

0:28:52.149,0:28:59.470
know we we grew up together

0:28:54.340,0:29:02.560
she owned a bar and struggled with her

0:28:59.470,0:29:04.780
own alcohol use although I’m not sure to

0:29:02.560,0:29:07.900
what extent because she had sort of

0:29:04.780,0:29:10.480
begun to isolate away from the family

0:29:07.900,0:29:12.070
and had had a failed marriage and just

0:29:10.480,0:29:13.660
some things I think she was possibly

0:29:12.070,0:29:17.740
embarrassed about her anyway she just

0:29:13.660,0:29:19.750
wasn’t around much anymore which is

0:29:17.740,0:29:22.900
something something that I’ll I’ll

0:29:19.750,0:29:25.810
always regret having not taken the time

0:29:22.900,0:29:28.660
to reach out to her a little bit more

0:29:25.810,0:29:32.590
than I did not sure if she would have

0:29:28.660,0:29:36.730
taken the calls anyway but um she shot

0:29:32.590,0:29:38.980
herself in the head in her bathtub fully

0:29:36.730,0:29:40.690
closed with the curtains shut and

0:29:38.980,0:29:43.780
everything because you didn’t want to

0:29:40.690,0:29:45.220
make a mess left to left a note just

0:29:43.780,0:29:48.850
basically saying she knew she wasn’t

0:29:45.220,0:29:51.490
living the lifestyle that she should be

0:29:48.850,0:29:54.970
and sorry that she let everyone down and

0:29:51.490,0:29:58.330
that type of thing and it was

0:29:54.970,0:30:01.420
devastating I mean when I saw my aunt

0:29:58.330,0:30:03.610
draped over her casket when they were

0:30:01.420,0:30:06.610
trying to lower her into the grip you

0:30:03.610,0:30:08.290
know that’s just it should never happen

0:30:06.610,0:30:11.110
where parents have to bury their child

0:30:08.290,0:30:12.160
and when it was a self-inflicted gunshot

0:30:11.110,0:30:14.980
wound

0:30:12.160,0:30:17.200
he just had to know what pain was

0:30:14.980,0:30:19.240
involved there and I did really work

0:30:17.200,0:30:20.980
hard to help my aunt through it because

0:30:19.240,0:30:23.650
they were doing a lot of what everyone

0:30:20.980,0:30:25.720
does when there’s a suicide what if what

0:30:23.650,0:30:27.880
if I did why didn’t I you know you

0:30:25.720,0:30:30.700
should have a blame and guilt and shame

0:30:27.880,0:30:34.290
and just all of these horrible emotions

0:30:30.700,0:30:40.480
that would come into play and it’s just

0:30:34.290,0:30:43.450
it was just awful and I I could see I

0:30:40.480,0:30:47.170
could I knew that there was a lot to do

0:30:43.450,0:30:49.720
with alcohol with her and and so you’d

0:30:47.170,0:30:52.050
think huh she got so depressed because

0:30:49.720,0:30:57.880
of her alcoholism that she resorted to

0:30:52.050,0:31:04.330
to suicide and and that could be my fate

0:30:57.880,0:31:08.230
if I don’t get a hold of this but at

0:31:04.330,0:31:11.740
that time I was already kind of in

0:31:08.230,0:31:13.120
survival mode at that point I was I was

0:31:11.740,0:31:16.690
within the year of going to my first

0:31:13.120,0:31:18.909
treatment myself and so for me it

0:31:16.690,0:31:23.289
actually just increased my drinking

0:31:18.909,0:31:26.380
because I needed to mask that pain and

0:31:23.289,0:31:28.750
that loss and that sadness and that fear

0:31:26.380,0:31:31.149
that all comes with something like that

0:31:28.750,0:31:32.980
I just wanted it to go away but the

0:31:31.149,0:31:34.840
problem is is if you don’t deal with

0:31:32.980,0:31:37.480
grief you know you know the stages of

0:31:34.840,0:31:40.510
grief denial and anger and acceptance

0:31:37.480,0:31:43.600
finally if you don’t deal with with

0:31:40.510,0:31:46.240
though those and in my case has numbed

0:31:43.600,0:31:48.460
it then again every day I’d wake up and

0:31:46.240,0:31:50.350
I’d have to relive the pain because I

0:31:48.460,0:31:52.929
had numbed it enough to forget the day

0:31:50.350,0:31:53.260
before but it was still there the next

0:31:52.929,0:31:55.649
day

0:31:53.260,0:32:00.100
and I think it was much more intense

0:31:55.649,0:32:05.409
each day because I hadn’t started even

0:32:00.100,0:32:09.429
to deal with with actually grieving it’s

0:32:05.409,0:32:12.730
it’s impossible to fully accept or

0:32:09.429,0:32:15.070
griever or understand anything if you’re

0:32:12.730,0:32:20.080
drunk it just doesn’t work it’s just

0:32:15.070,0:32:22.840
impossible yeah I mean um Wow

0:32:20.080,0:32:26.799
first of all my condolences I mean what

0:32:22.840,0:32:29.320
a what a story and it you know it and

0:32:26.799,0:32:30.940
you as you said it should have scared

0:32:29.320,0:32:34.630
you straight you know it should have

0:32:30.940,0:32:37.330
woke you up in a way and it didn’t you

0:32:34.630,0:32:40.000
know and I and why I mean why do you

0:32:37.330,0:32:42.940
think you know is obviously the drinking

0:32:40.000,0:32:45.669
is directly related to this and perhaps

0:32:42.940,0:32:48.370
you know the level of the pain the

0:32:45.669,0:32:51.880
intensity of the pain want you wanted to

0:32:48.370,0:32:54.399
mask this as much as you could and so

0:32:51.880,0:32:59.740
yeah absolutely you turn to you know

0:32:54.399,0:33:02.200
alcohol to do this right and and alcohol

0:32:59.740,0:33:06.039
going back just a little bit to can the

0:33:02.200,0:33:09.010
neurobiology it rewards us in two ways

0:33:06.039,0:33:11.080
there’s a the positive reinforcement of

0:33:09.010,0:33:13.779
drinking is what you would think you

0:33:11.080,0:33:17.139
know relaxed or forget the pain or or

0:33:13.779,0:33:21.710
whatever but at that stage in my life I

0:33:17.139,0:33:23.960
was already definitely a ELCA holic

0:33:21.710,0:33:27.620
so there’s also negative reinforcement

0:33:23.960,0:33:31.220
and what that means is if I if I don’t

0:33:27.620,0:33:34.100
drink I’ll feel terrible but if I drink

0:33:31.220,0:33:35.420
I’ll feel not so bad and and so you know

0:33:34.100,0:33:36.950
that if you don’t drink that’s going to

0:33:35.420,0:33:40.280
be negative so that that that is a

0:33:36.950,0:33:41.900
reinforcement to drink more and so when

0:33:40.280,0:33:44.540
there’s a physical dependence that has

0:33:41.900,0:33:48.140
started and it had definitely started

0:33:44.540,0:33:50.270
with me by that point wait I’m so sorry

0:33:48.140,0:33:51.830
to bumpy there I there’s just there’s

0:33:50.270,0:33:53.540
just some clipping happening with Skype

0:33:51.830,0:33:56.270
and I just want to restart the call

0:33:53.540,0:33:58.840
really quick guys just hang tight for me

0:33:56.270,0:33:58.840
really fast

0:34:54.400,0:35:02.330
all right guys sorry about that we are

0:34:56.930,0:35:04.370
back Carla are you there Carla I am ok

0:35:02.330,0:35:07.250
let’s see if that fixes it hopefully it

0:35:04.370,0:35:09.770
does okay so we were talking about the

0:35:07.250,0:35:12.320
neural chemistry of the effect of this

0:35:09.770,0:35:15.470
on your brain and we were talking about

0:35:12.320,0:35:17.990
the death of your cousin in and she took

0:35:15.470,0:35:22.190
her life in the hardest way I mean it

0:35:17.990,0:35:23.660
was a suicide and this and I and the

0:35:22.190,0:35:25.790
last thing I said was that this should

0:35:23.660,0:35:28.490
have been a wake-up call for you but it

0:35:25.790,0:35:31.610
wasn’t it wasn’t and then you started to

0:35:28.490,0:35:34.900
go into the the neural chemistry of this

0:35:31.610,0:35:40.660
why you know why it didn’t happen

0:35:34.900,0:35:42.490
way for you yeah well for those of you

0:35:40.660,0:35:44.589
who already heard this I’m sorry but

0:35:42.490,0:35:48.640
there’s there’s just a couple of ways

0:35:44.589,0:35:51.789
that alcohol provides reward and if a

0:35:48.640,0:35:54.460
person like me was already into a

0:35:51.789,0:35:57.010
physical dependence that’s pretty

0:35:54.460,0:35:59.230
intense and the first is that of course

0:35:57.010,0:36:00.789
alcohol does what we’d expect it to the

0:35:59.230,0:36:04.150
reason that many people drink is to

0:36:00.789,0:36:07.569
relax is to forget and for me he at that

0:36:04.150,0:36:11.650
point it was to numb the pain of having

0:36:07.569,0:36:13.119
lost her in such a horrific way a but by

0:36:11.650,0:36:15.579
that point there’s also the negative

0:36:13.119,0:36:18.190
reinforcement and what that means is

0:36:15.579,0:36:22.630
that if I don’t drink I’ll feel like

0:36:18.190,0:36:24.670
crap and so you know that hey I’m gonna

0:36:22.630,0:36:26.950
get this crappy feeling to go away or

0:36:24.670,0:36:29.650
I’m gonna ward it off if I just drink

0:36:26.950,0:36:32.380
and and I’m also gonna have the benefit

0:36:29.650,0:36:33.880
of being able to forget this pain but

0:36:32.380,0:36:35.230
then like I mentioned earlier the

0:36:33.880,0:36:37.660
problem is is that when you wake up the

0:36:35.230,0:36:40.000
next morning here we go again the pain

0:36:37.660,0:36:41.710
is still there right I mean you have to

0:36:40.000,0:36:43.270
deal with this at some point or it’s

0:36:41.710,0:36:45.880
just going to it’s gonna haunt you until

0:36:43.270,0:36:49.270
you do it’s gonna haunt you until you

0:36:45.880,0:36:50.650
eventually do that you know I want to I

0:36:49.270,0:36:53.920
want to move forward a little bit in the

0:36:50.650,0:36:57.190
story and you you started drinking at

0:36:53.920,0:37:00.309
work right and it’s it got worse and

0:36:57.190,0:37:02.049
worse um you know what brought you to

0:37:00.309,0:37:04.480
the point where you felt like you needed

0:37:02.049,0:37:07.450
to drink at work how did you get away

0:37:04.480,0:37:09.640
with it because you know I mean wasn’t

0:37:07.450,0:37:12.849
what wasn’t there someone around that

0:37:09.640,0:37:15.539
would have seen you working and drinking

0:37:12.849,0:37:19.240
and noticed that you were doing that

0:37:15.539,0:37:22.450
tell us about that please yeah well I’m

0:37:19.240,0:37:24.520
a physician assistant and at the time I

0:37:22.450,0:37:28.900
was working family practice I had done

0:37:24.520,0:37:32.549
that for 17 years and so in family

0:37:28.900,0:37:34.900
practice I wasn’t working with a team of

0:37:32.549,0:37:38.170
because surgeons and scrub texts in the

0:37:34.900,0:37:41.200
whole deal it was just me and I had a

0:37:38.170,0:37:43.420
nurse but the nurse and I as most people

0:37:41.200,0:37:45.010
will know when you go to see the doctor

0:37:43.420,0:37:47.260
you don’t see the nurse and the doc at

0:37:45.010,0:37:48.670
the same time the nurse checks Iain and

0:37:47.260,0:37:50.890
does all that stuff and then

0:37:48.670,0:37:52.329
you kind of our two ships passing so my

0:37:50.890,0:37:53.920
nurse and I would just sort of dance

0:37:52.329,0:37:58.240
around each others so that wasn’t an

0:37:53.920,0:38:02.170
issue I had an office mate but she and I

0:37:58.240,0:38:05.109
only overlapped one day per week so I

0:38:02.170,0:38:10.269
had my personal office to myself most of

0:38:05.109,0:38:12.579
the time well but how it got started for

0:38:10.269,0:38:16.000
a long time it had been where I got home

0:38:12.579,0:38:19.240
from work and I never even took my coat

0:38:16.000,0:38:21.819
off or my shoes off and I went straight

0:38:19.240,0:38:24.099
to the liquor cabinet and I wouldn’t

0:38:21.819,0:38:27.720
even bother with that first pull with a

0:38:24.099,0:38:32.049
glass just right out of the bottle and

0:38:27.720,0:38:35.380
then I could barely wait till I got home

0:38:32.049,0:38:40.240
so I started keeping a traveller or a

0:38:35.380,0:38:43.900
flask in my car my house was two miles

0:38:40.240,0:38:46.809
from my work but I did not think I could

0:38:43.900,0:38:49.420
make it from work to home after a

0:38:46.809,0:38:51.819
stressful day without having that so I I

0:38:49.420,0:38:57.400
would start drinking in the car on the

0:38:51.819,0:39:00.369
way home and right I mean two miles

0:38:57.400,0:39:02.049
can’t make it two miles usually can wait

0:39:00.369,0:39:02.710
two miles if you gotta pee I mean this

0:39:02.049,0:39:06.400
is crazy

0:39:02.710,0:39:10.450
right but that’s the way it was and as

0:39:06.400,0:39:11.619
you can imagine the story going and the

0:39:10.450,0:39:15.700
ball rolling

0:39:11.619,0:39:18.339
pretty soon at home at night wasn’t

0:39:15.700,0:39:21.130
enough and I started going home for

0:39:18.339,0:39:24.099
quote lunch and at that point I would

0:39:21.130,0:39:26.410
take a few slugs of vodka I wouldn’t eat

0:39:24.099,0:39:28.779
anything but I’d take a few slugs of

0:39:26.410,0:39:31.900
vodka to get myself a little bit less

0:39:28.779,0:39:33.569
shaky kind of ward off the nausea and

0:39:31.900,0:39:36.069
the sweats that I’d been feeling and

0:39:33.569,0:39:38.920
that would give me the boost to get

0:39:36.069,0:39:40.779
through the afternoon and and I’d start

0:39:38.920,0:39:42.819
drinking as soon as I hit the car and as

0:39:40.779,0:39:45.640
soon as I was at home until I passed out

0:39:42.819,0:39:49.450
whether that was in my bed or on the

0:39:45.640,0:39:51.759
floor who knows it was it was always

0:39:49.450,0:39:55.599
drink to pass out that was always the

0:39:51.759,0:40:00.670
purpose but even that was not enough

0:39:55.599,0:40:01.970
after a while and I think we addicts and

0:40:00.670,0:40:05.240
alcoholics

0:40:01.970,0:40:06.590
we make little rules for ourselves like

0:40:05.240,0:40:08.060
okay I’m only gonna drink on the

0:40:06.590,0:40:09.710
weekends okay I’m only gonna drink at

0:40:08.060,0:40:11.510
the bar okay I’m only gonna drink at

0:40:09.710,0:40:14.359
home okay I’m only gonna drink beer and

0:40:11.510,0:40:15.680
not anything hard and it tends to be

0:40:14.359,0:40:17.240
that when we make these little rules

0:40:15.680,0:40:19.550
with ourselves if we’re truly an

0:40:17.240,0:40:23.780
alcoholic we blow right through you just

0:40:19.550,0:40:26.150
you just can’t it just gets worse it’s a

0:40:23.780,0:40:28.369
progressive and chronic primary brain

0:40:26.150,0:40:32.119
disease it doesn’t get better if you’re

0:40:28.369,0:40:35.030
continuing to use a substance and so my

0:40:32.119,0:40:37.099
lunchtime trips were not enough and I

0:40:35.030,0:40:38.930
just decided you know what nobody has

0:40:37.099,0:40:40.820
picked up on this I have not had a

0:40:38.930,0:40:43.480
single patient complaint I have had

0:40:40.820,0:40:46.099
nobody in the office ask me anything I

0:40:43.480,0:40:48.470
had I’m getting by with it I’m getting

0:40:46.099,0:40:51.170
away with it so I started filling my

0:40:48.470,0:40:53.300
water bottle with vodka and that way in

0:40:51.170,0:40:56.359
between each patient I could go back to

0:40:53.300,0:40:58.640
my office and take some sips and do a

0:40:56.359,0:41:01.609
note or write some orders or whatever I

0:40:58.640,0:41:05.150
needed to do and then go back and see

0:41:01.609,0:41:07.220
the next patient and so then I wasn’t in

0:41:05.150,0:41:10.700
this giant rush to get out of work

0:41:07.220,0:41:13.130
anymore cuz I was there I was I was able

0:41:10.700,0:41:16.970
to have my drink and do my work at the

0:41:13.130,0:41:19.820
same time which is crazy and took way

0:41:16.970,0:41:20.630
more effort on my part than it should

0:41:19.820,0:41:23.810
have

0:41:20.630,0:41:26.450
I could run circles around myself six

0:41:23.810,0:41:28.970
years sober now comparatively as far as

0:41:26.450,0:41:29.930
my energy levels and but I still got it

0:41:28.970,0:41:33.320
done

0:41:29.930,0:41:35.119
my uphill battle but sorry I didn’t mean

0:41:33.320,0:41:37.460
to bump you there go why do you think we

0:41:35.119,0:41:39.410
have this persistence to go back to

0:41:37.460,0:41:41.839
these things that are essentially bad

0:41:39.410,0:41:44.030
for us we know we know this is bad for

0:41:41.839,0:41:47.900
us but we continue to go back into it

0:41:44.030,0:41:49.880
and do it over and over well it kind of

0:41:47.900,0:41:52.040
depends on what exactly you’re talking

0:41:49.880,0:41:54.339
about but with substances it goes back

0:41:52.040,0:41:59.690
to the brain and we know so little about

0:41:54.339,0:42:01.280
how about the brain but we redo some of

0:41:59.690,0:42:04.310
these neurotransmitters in some of these

0:42:01.280,0:42:06.109
pathways and and it truly is your in

0:42:04.310,0:42:10.940
your brain and it’s got the compulsion

0:42:06.109,0:42:14.330
and your body’s physically addicted to

0:42:10.940,0:42:15.330
whatever it oh it’s really hard to kick

0:42:14.330,0:42:16.980
that and

0:42:15.330,0:42:19.140
so I think we keep coming back to it

0:42:16.980,0:42:21.750
because the effort required to either

0:42:19.140,0:42:25.620
avoid it or stay away from it or go cold

0:42:21.750,0:42:27.720
turkey or whatever is worse and harder

0:42:25.620,0:42:30.290
and more challenging than just staying

0:42:27.720,0:42:32.640
with the status quo and against that

0:42:30.290,0:42:33.990
adapting that you referred to earlier

0:42:32.640,0:42:36.090
when we were talking about my marriage

0:42:33.990,0:42:39.660
and in that when you’re in it you don’t

0:42:36.090,0:42:41.940
necessarily realize how bad it is you’ve

0:42:39.660,0:42:45.210
probably heard the story the boiling

0:42:41.940,0:42:47.280
frog thing but it goes that you know if

0:42:45.210,0:42:48.990
you put out a little dish of cold water

0:42:47.280,0:42:51.450
for your pet frog

0:42:48.990,0:42:52.980
she’ll frolic and she’ll play in it and

0:42:51.450,0:42:55.140
she’ll jump around it she loves frogs

0:42:52.980,0:42:56.100
love water tomorrow you make it a little

0:42:55.140,0:42:58.650
warmer

0:42:56.100,0:43:00.120
she still Daleks she still messes around

0:42:58.650,0:43:01.860
a little bit in the water but you can

0:43:00.120,0:43:03.630
tell it’s not quite as enjoyable but she

0:43:01.860,0:43:04.920
still gets used to it because she wants

0:43:03.630,0:43:07.170
to swim and she wants to drink

0:43:04.920,0:43:09.750
keep fast-forwarding every day heating

0:43:07.170,0:43:11.610
the water and that frog will jump into

0:43:09.750,0:43:13.800
that boiling water and boil herself

0:43:11.610,0:43:15.750
because she has adapted and that’s true

0:43:13.800,0:43:22.730
it’s a real real deal

0:43:15.750,0:43:25.410
but it’s a great representation

0:43:22.730,0:43:28.050
although somewhat cryptic I guess of

0:43:25.410,0:43:30.210
what we do it’s it’s we’re used to it

0:43:28.050,0:43:32.760
and even though it’s a completely messed

0:43:30.210,0:43:35.010
up normal it is still our normal and it

0:43:32.760,0:43:39.300
still feels normal and it still feels

0:43:35.010,0:43:41.220
like it’s easier than the alternative

0:43:39.300,0:43:43.260
because with the alternative there’s

0:43:41.220,0:43:45.600
also a lot of unknowns which creates

0:43:43.260,0:43:47.760
giant amount of fear Who am I going to

0:43:45.600,0:43:51.120
be without the drink will I have any fun

0:43:47.760,0:43:53.040
without the drink what am I gonna have

0:43:51.120,0:43:55.110
to lose all my friends if I quit

0:43:53.040,0:43:57.740
drinking and is my marriage gonna fail

0:43:55.110,0:44:01.560
if I drink and he doesn’t or vice versa

0:43:57.740,0:44:04.200
and what if I go get treatment and I

0:44:01.560,0:44:06.450
have to tell them at work why I’m gone

0:44:04.200,0:44:08.730
for 12 weeks or what if you know will

0:44:06.450,0:44:10.830
they take me back or I won’t be able to

0:44:08.730,0:44:13.650
pay my bills for three months QED TSA’s

0:44:10.830,0:44:17.370
for not doing something about it

0:44:13.650,0:44:20.130
our miles long hmm yeah I mean that’s so

0:44:17.370,0:44:22.440
true and I mean you nailed it I mean you

0:44:20.130,0:44:24.900
you enter the state of you know

0:44:22.440,0:44:28.400
substance dependence where you feel like

0:44:24.900,0:44:30.590
you need that to behave a certain way

0:44:28.400,0:44:33.050
and you know I think I think with all

0:44:30.590,0:44:35.510
the alcohol specifically there you know

0:44:33.050,0:44:37.850
just Nero chemically you know it’s it’s

0:44:35.510,0:44:40.520
psychologically as bad as it is

0:44:37.850,0:44:43.310
physically and that’s what’s the most

0:44:40.520,0:44:44.570
scary about being the availability of it

0:44:43.310,0:44:47.630
you know being able to go down the

0:44:44.570,0:44:49.190
street and acquire this stuff you so you

0:44:47.630,0:44:52.400
know moving forward moving along here

0:44:49.190,0:44:55.640
you you hit a point where you know you

0:44:52.400,0:44:58.160
eventually got to detox you your first

0:44:55.640,0:45:01.820
trip to detox and I mean your your

0:44:58.160,0:45:05.000
father took you to detox right yes he

0:45:01.820,0:45:08.030
did so okay so I mean there’s there’s a

0:45:05.000,0:45:11.810
few things here you you felt like it was

0:45:08.030,0:45:16.150
a jail um why why do you feel like you

0:45:11.810,0:45:19.250
had that reaction I find I find that

0:45:16.150,0:45:23.000
when I read stories about this that

0:45:19.250,0:45:25.900
people people don’t respond to you know

0:45:23.000,0:45:30.050
their first treatment well it seems like

0:45:25.900,0:45:32.570
traditional detox seems ineffective in

0:45:30.050,0:45:35.270
relationship to you know curbing these

0:45:32.570,0:45:37.760
types of addiction so you know what was

0:45:35.270,0:45:43.070
your experience like in this in the

0:45:37.760,0:45:48.980
center you call it a prison how did it

0:45:43.070,0:45:52.610
work yes lucky for me to even think

0:45:48.980,0:45:54.770
about it but first of all and we can get

0:45:52.610,0:45:58.760
into this much more as the call

0:45:54.770,0:46:01.640
progresses but detox is not a solution

0:45:58.760,0:46:03.860
it is not fixing it is very different

0:46:01.640,0:46:05.510
than rehab or a program that whatever

0:46:03.860,0:46:08.390
program you might decide to do that

0:46:05.510,0:46:11.840
whatever it is detox is getting you

0:46:08.390,0:46:14.750
stopped that’s it but you eluded to that

0:46:11.840,0:46:18.740
it’s both of psychological compulsion

0:46:14.750,0:46:21.860
and a physical one well detox gets you

0:46:18.740,0:46:24.050
out of the scary withdrawal of the

0:46:21.860,0:46:26.290
physical addiction but it does

0:46:24.050,0:46:28.810
absolutely nothing to curb that

0:46:26.290,0:46:31.790
psychological addiction that needs

0:46:28.810,0:46:36.380
months weeks years of work at least in

0:46:31.790,0:46:38.750
my experience but yeah so I went to

0:46:36.380,0:46:43.179
detox and I was going on my own accord

0:46:38.750,0:46:46.160
it wasn’t that I didn’t think I need

0:46:43.179,0:46:49.880
but once you get in there and say okay I

0:46:46.160,0:46:53.179
want I need detox and then I was very

0:46:49.880,0:46:54.979
honest with the counselors and everyone

0:46:53.179,0:47:00.469
because I thought okay here I go I’m

0:46:54.979,0:47:02.059
gonna get the help and it was really it

0:47:00.469,0:47:04.479
was really shocking what it felt like to

0:47:02.059,0:47:07.669
have my a bunch of my rights taken away

0:47:04.479,0:47:11.359
and they take away your rights as a new

0:47:07.669,0:47:13.699
detox or any detox participant because

0:47:11.359,0:47:15.589
your risk of suicide your risk of

0:47:13.699,0:47:17.359
eloping your risk of doing something

0:47:15.589,0:47:19.789
stupid is really high when you’re in a

0:47:17.359,0:47:22.669
withdrawal period as is your risk of

0:47:19.789,0:47:26.749
especially if you’re addicted to alcohol

0:47:22.669,0:47:30.259
or benzos the actual withdrawal part can

0:47:26.749,0:47:33.679
be fatal if not medically managed

0:47:30.259,0:47:35.029
because of the risk of seizures but yes

0:47:33.679,0:47:36.410
so I went in and I told him what I

0:47:35.029,0:47:38.299
needed and he told him my whole truth

0:47:36.410,0:47:40.699
and nothing but the truth and so then

0:47:38.299,0:47:42.859
what happens is you get stripped and

0:47:40.699,0:47:44.689
strip searched and they take all of your

0:47:42.859,0:47:46.699
belongings I couldn’t have makeup

0:47:44.689,0:47:48.409
because it was in a glass bottle and I

0:47:46.699,0:47:50.569
couldn’t have a compact because it had a

0:47:48.409,0:47:52.939
mirror that could be sharp we didn’t

0:47:50.569,0:47:55.939
have mirrors over our sinks or anywhere

0:47:52.939,0:47:58.729
the bathroom doors were kind of these

0:47:55.939,0:48:00.919
weird kiddy Korner with cutout on on the

0:47:58.729,0:48:04.099
top and the bottom so that you could

0:48:00.919,0:48:07.729
never lock yourself in there anything

0:48:04.099,0:48:08.900
there the water was all run on little on

0:48:07.729,0:48:11.119
those little ones you have to push a

0:48:08.900,0:48:13.099
button to get like ten-second spray they

0:48:11.119,0:48:16.369
were all like that so you couldn’t drown

0:48:13.099,0:48:18.469
yourself there were no plastic bags

0:48:16.369,0:48:20.209
allowed every the garbage cans and

0:48:18.469,0:48:23.299
things were lined with paper sacks there

0:48:20.209,0:48:25.009
was just all these things that door

0:48:23.299,0:48:27.140
handles are real weird because then you

0:48:25.009,0:48:29.359
can’t tie something to it they cut out

0:48:27.140,0:48:30.890
the strings of my sweat shirts and my

0:48:29.359,0:48:33.650
sweat pants and everything and I

0:48:30.890,0:48:34.729
couldn’t have any shoes and they take

0:48:33.650,0:48:37.189
away your phone and take away your

0:48:34.729,0:48:38.929
person take away everything and I felt

0:48:37.189,0:48:40.279
like that was overkill I felt like I

0:48:38.929,0:48:42.589
should just get in there they give me

0:48:40.279,0:48:44.509
some valium I get over it and I could

0:48:42.589,0:48:46.989
play on my phone while I got through it

0:48:44.509,0:48:51.439
nope wasn’t like that at all

0:48:46.989,0:48:54.739
mmm Wow I mean it seems like the system

0:48:51.439,0:48:55.890
is almost you know designed to kind of

0:48:54.739,0:48:58.049
push people

0:48:55.890,0:49:00.710
a from wanting to go into you know

0:48:58.049,0:49:04.619
processes like dis couple like recovery

0:49:00.710,0:49:07.019
I I want to know you know what for you

0:49:04.619,0:49:09.480
was the bottom you know something common

0:49:07.019,0:49:11.430
that we hear is you know you okay you’ll

0:49:09.480,0:49:15.170
recognize this when you hit you know

0:49:11.430,0:49:19.529
your bottom was there a bottom for you

0:49:15.170,0:49:26.089
yes there was but it was a low bottom

0:49:19.529,0:49:26.089
for me personally I had to lose my

0:49:26.779,0:49:34.500
relationships I had to lose my job and

0:49:31.440,0:49:37.410
then my medical license and then my

0:49:34.500,0:49:40.319
National Board Certification and my Drug

0:49:37.410,0:49:42.059
Enforcement Agency license sure none of

0:49:40.319,0:49:44.599
which are easy to obtain and certainly

0:49:42.059,0:49:55.500
not easy to get back if you’ve lost them

0:49:44.599,0:49:57.630
I had to go on state medical I and then

0:49:55.500,0:50:00.299
ultimately I lost the ability to even

0:49:57.630,0:50:03.029
see my children because I drank through

0:50:00.299,0:50:08.549
a paid parenting supervising time visit

0:50:03.029,0:50:10.200
and so I lost them and so the only

0:50:08.549,0:50:12.660
person who was still taking my phone

0:50:10.200,0:50:15.480
calls was my mom and even she was pretty

0:50:12.660,0:50:18.630
wary because I had manipulated and lied

0:50:15.480,0:50:21.450
and worn her out caused a rift between

0:50:18.630,0:50:26.430
her and my dad at them and my sister and

0:50:21.450,0:50:29.849
it was it was just a mess and I had to I

0:50:26.430,0:50:33.329
had to lose all of that before I

0:50:29.849,0:50:36.829
realized okay now what am I going to do

0:50:33.329,0:50:44.759
about this and that is where I got to on

0:50:36.829,0:50:49.109
one February morning where I had already

0:50:44.759,0:50:52.049
been in detox twice and Rehab twice in

0:50:49.109,0:50:53.579
that ten month period of time and I had

0:50:52.049,0:50:56.660
continued to drink through it and I had

0:50:53.579,0:51:00.230
continued to just lose more and more and

0:50:56.660,0:51:03.900
there I was in my walk-in closet I had a

0:51:00.230,0:51:06.569
mansion really at the time 6000 square

0:51:03.900,0:51:08.490
feet and Thera was in my closet you know

0:51:06.569,0:51:09.330
they joke about closet drinkers that was

0:51:08.490,0:51:11.880
me I really

0:51:09.330,0:51:14.340
was a closet drinker because I had begun

0:51:11.880,0:51:16.830
to hide it in there for so long and so

0:51:14.340,0:51:19.230
there I was me and every pill in the

0:51:16.830,0:51:21.030
house that I had left over from years

0:51:19.230,0:51:23.220
and years of you know how you keep

0:51:21.030,0:51:25.770
leftover prescriptions and I had all

0:51:23.220,0:51:28.350
that and my laptop and my phone and my

0:51:25.770,0:51:32.040
vodka and I was in my closet and I was

0:51:28.350,0:51:33.900
researching online how do you kill

0:51:32.040,0:51:36.720
yourself with pills what concoction of

0:51:33.900,0:51:41.040
what I had would do it because I was

0:51:36.720,0:51:43.890
done I knew that it was over and of all

0:51:41.040,0:51:46.200
things one of those annoying pop-ups I

0:51:43.890,0:51:51.090
usually hate and ignore came up on my

0:51:46.200,0:51:58.050
computer screen I’m sorry this is hard

0:51:51.090,0:52:00.930
and it said do you need help and for

0:51:58.050,0:52:02.790
some reason I called the number Wow and

0:52:00.930,0:52:05.250
the guy on the other other guy on the

0:52:02.790,0:52:08.100
other end was his name was Phil I never

0:52:05.250,0:52:10.910
knew his last name I wish I did Phil if

0:52:08.100,0:52:13.950
you’re out there I owe you in my life

0:52:10.910,0:52:15.960
and here he’s a rehab broker he’s just

0:52:13.950,0:52:17.610
trying to find placement for people at

0:52:15.960,0:52:20.700
rehabs and Phil rehabs and get a

0:52:17.610,0:52:22.710
commission right but he spent two hours

0:52:20.700,0:52:25.610
on the phone with me really turned into

0:52:22.710,0:52:29.520
a suicide mission for suicide prevention

0:52:25.610,0:52:33.360
mission and before the phone call was

0:52:29.520,0:52:36.540
out he had got me hooked up with a rehab

0:52:33.360,0:52:39.330
in Florida that would accept the crappy

0:52:36.540,0:52:42.300
insurance I had at the time a plane

0:52:39.330,0:52:44.430
ticket a cab ride coming and he kept on

0:52:42.300,0:52:47.820
the phone with me until all of this was

0:52:44.430,0:52:50.040
in place I think partially so I wouldn’t

0:52:47.820,0:52:53.640
back out but partially I think I scared

0:52:50.040,0:52:56.970
him and he wanted to stay on there with

0:52:53.640,0:52:59.070
me until you knew I was safe it’s pretty

0:52:56.970,0:53:00.660
remarkable good samaritan duty there I

0:52:59.070,0:53:04.650
wonder if he quit the job the next day I

0:53:00.660,0:53:06.870
don’t know it sounds like you have your

0:53:04.650,0:53:08.730
own angel that day and you know it’s

0:53:06.870,0:53:13.590
like the pop up that saved your life

0:53:08.730,0:53:15.030
basically oh for sure I smile every time

0:53:13.590,0:53:18.780
I see pop ups now because you just never

0:53:15.030,0:53:21.900
know oh my god Wow you know Carla we’re

0:53:18.780,0:53:22.589
running out of time here quickly but I I

0:53:21.900,0:53:25.079
want to

0:53:22.589,0:53:26.670
– you know the twelve-step say there’s a

0:53:25.079,0:53:28.219
bunch of stuff that I didn’t cover here

0:53:26.670,0:53:31.410
I

0:53:28.219,0:53:34.349
what is your regard to the the 12 steps

0:53:31.410,0:53:36.390
because I know that you you know you

0:53:34.349,0:53:38.700
you’ve connected with that and you write

0:53:36.390,0:53:41.130
about this and so you know what is your

0:53:38.700,0:53:43.170
experience with this and and the

0:53:41.130,0:53:44.729
experience of other alcoholics I mean do

0:53:43.170,0:53:47.779
you do you feel like the twelve steps

0:53:44.729,0:53:51.479
work did they work for you

0:53:47.779,0:53:54.450
they absolutely 100% worked and work for

0:53:51.479,0:53:57.029
me it’s not something that much to my

0:53:54.450,0:53:59.549
chagrin as a list writer and checker

0:53:57.029,0:54:00.749
offer of busses it’s not something that

0:53:59.549,0:54:02.130
you do the twelve steps and then you’re

0:54:00.749,0:54:03.239
done and you graduate you get your

0:54:02.130,0:54:04.680
little card – putting your wallet and

0:54:03.239,0:54:07.799
your good to go that’s not at all the

0:54:04.680,0:54:10.289
case it’s a lifelong thing but that is

0:54:07.799,0:54:12.119
not to say that a 12-step program is the

0:54:10.289,0:54:14.069
only way that people get to drinking

0:54:12.119,0:54:15.390
under control there’s smart recovery

0:54:14.069,0:54:17.670
there’s harms reduction there’s

0:54:15.390,0:54:20.670
medication assisted treatment there’s oh

0:54:17.670,0:54:22.140
a plethora of other ways and and I

0:54:20.670,0:54:24.680
honestly am of the school of thought

0:54:22.140,0:54:27.390
that I do not care how you get sober if

0:54:24.680,0:54:30.269
just do whatever you can to get there

0:54:27.390,0:54:32.219
but for me that the 12 steps really

0:54:30.269,0:54:35.729
resonated probably again because I am a

0:54:32.219,0:54:38.069
list keeper and Anna in a box checker

0:54:35.729,0:54:39.809
and I like that kind of structure it’s

0:54:38.069,0:54:41.130
really good for me and I had lost a

0:54:39.809,0:54:43.789
great deal structure during my

0:54:41.130,0:54:45.599
alcoholism as all substance abusers do

0:54:43.789,0:54:50.549
structure becomes a thing of the past

0:54:45.599,0:54:52.559
but it was really really good for me the

0:54:50.549,0:54:53.609
first step is the most important one and

0:54:52.559,0:54:55.349
the only one that you need to do

0:54:53.609,0:54:58.469
perfectly and basically that’s admitting

0:54:55.349,0:55:01.670
I got a major problem here and and it’s

0:54:58.469,0:55:03.900
wrecking my life and that’s it with any

0:55:01.670,0:55:05.729
addiction if you can fill in the blank

0:55:03.900,0:55:06.960
there with you know I’m eating too much

0:55:05.729,0:55:09.509
and it’s ruining my life I’m gambling

0:55:06.960,0:55:12.299
too much I’m watching porn or whatever

0:55:09.509,0:55:14.009
it is you just fill in the blank and so

0:55:12.299,0:55:16.349
any of these 12-step programs that you

0:55:14.009,0:55:18.900
attend kind of use the same premise so

0:55:16.349,0:55:22.259
I’m not ascribing to a specific program

0:55:18.900,0:55:24.479
by any means nor should i if I if I were

0:55:22.259,0:55:26.700
because I I think that that’s not

0:55:24.479,0:55:28.650
helpful to say there’s only one way I

0:55:26.700,0:55:30.509
think that everybody’s recovery is a

0:55:28.650,0:55:33.410
little bit different but for me getting

0:55:30.509,0:55:36.390
step one right was perf was really

0:55:33.410,0:55:37.920
important and by doing that

0:55:36.390,0:55:40.799
my counselor had me write out an

0:55:37.920,0:55:44.250
exhaustive list of what happens to me

0:55:40.799,0:55:47.460
when I drink and and on the flip side

0:55:44.250,0:55:50.789
you know he also had me write a letter

0:55:47.460,0:55:53.220
like a like a longing goodbye letter

0:55:50.789,0:55:55.410
what is it you love about alcohol what

0:55:53.220,0:55:57.930
is it that you can miss about alcohol

0:55:55.410,0:55:59.609
and I really wrote it as if I was

0:55:57.930,0:56:01.500
writing to a lover because honestly at

0:55:59.609,0:56:02.910
the end that was my lover it was my best

0:56:01.500,0:56:04.619
friend my lover my partner it slept in

0:56:02.910,0:56:07.440
my bed with me you know it was really

0:56:04.619,0:56:11.150
all I had left so step one was

0:56:07.440,0:56:14.400
incredibly important except for is when

0:56:11.150,0:56:17.970
they typically ask you to search through

0:56:14.400,0:56:20.190
your past what kind of things did you do

0:56:17.970,0:56:22.140
that hurt people what kind of things

0:56:20.190,0:56:24.000
were done to you that hurt you what kind

0:56:22.140,0:56:26.519
of resentments do you hold what kind of

0:56:24.000,0:56:28.710
sexual indiscretions have you been

0:56:26.519,0:56:31.769
involved with in your life and basically

0:56:28.710,0:56:33.750
writing it all down and for me a person

0:56:31.769,0:56:36.480
who always thought that I’m a really

0:56:33.750,0:56:38.970
good person I’m a really nice person in

0:56:36.480,0:56:41.849
that hundred and six pages that I wrote

0:56:38.970,0:56:43.319
of my fourth step I really couldn’t find

0:56:41.849,0:56:44.519
a whole lot of evidence to support that

0:56:43.319,0:56:48.750
I was a good person

0:56:44.519,0:56:50.250
not not much at all and I it was really

0:56:48.750,0:56:52.529
helpful for me to look at all that

0:56:50.250,0:56:55.230
because I was like God good god I do not

0:56:52.529,0:56:56.730
want a sequel to this I don’t want to

0:56:55.230,0:56:59.430
have to write this all out again in

0:56:56.730,0:57:01.680
another 20 years that oh look at all the

0:56:59.430,0:57:03.630
crap I’ve done now so that was really

0:57:01.680,0:57:08.160
helpful but the letter was also helpful

0:57:03.630,0:57:08.940
to me because I hadn’t realized how much

0:57:08.160,0:57:12.119
I loved it

0:57:08.940,0:57:13.710
and that was I had to grieve even though

0:57:12.119,0:57:18.720
it was killing me I had to grieve that

0:57:13.710,0:57:21.960
loss yeah I actually bookmarked the list

0:57:18.720,0:57:24.890
and the letter just because it’s so

0:57:21.960,0:57:28.380
cringy you know to be honest just

0:57:24.890,0:57:30.210
reading it it made me feel like oh my

0:57:28.380,0:57:31.759
god you know wow you know I’m never

0:57:30.210,0:57:36.299
drinking again

0:57:31.759,0:57:38.099
so you know I just moving along here

0:57:36.299,0:57:40.650
right you know what I think this is

0:57:38.099,0:57:44.759
important I think the spirituality part

0:57:40.650,0:57:46.470
of this is crucial and how did that take

0:57:44.759,0:57:49.320
place for you how did that come into

0:57:46.470,0:57:51.369
play for you

0:57:49.320,0:57:54.190
that’s a great question and it was

0:57:51.369,0:57:58.030
pretty easy for me personally because I

0:57:54.190,0:58:00.880
had been raised Lutheran Christian and I

0:57:58.030,0:58:04.270
believed I had a God that I believed in

0:58:00.880,0:58:06.310
and I was pretty solid in my faith so

0:58:04.270,0:58:08.140
much so that I had really distanced

0:58:06.310,0:58:11.170
myself from anything God anything church

0:58:08.140,0:58:13.420
I had even stopped praying unless it was

0:58:11.170,0:58:15.850
a really particularly bad bender and I

0:58:13.420,0:58:17.980
was praying to die because I didn’t feel

0:58:15.850,0:58:20.080
like I was the I didn’t feel like God

0:58:17.980,0:58:21.820
would want me I was a piece of crap and

0:58:20.080,0:58:24.880
I knew it he knew it everyone knew it

0:58:21.820,0:58:30.010
and so I had really veered away from

0:58:24.880,0:58:33.730
that but the 12-step program step two in

0:58:30.010,0:58:34.960
Step three do get into spirituality and

0:58:33.730,0:58:36.790
and this actually hangs up a lot of

0:58:34.960,0:58:38.350
people it’s like I’m not joining 12-step

0:58:36.790,0:58:40.180
program I don’t believe in God I’m an

0:58:38.350,0:58:42.040
atheist I’m agnostic I don’t there’s no

0:58:40.180,0:58:43.780
way I can get any spiritual and that’s

0:58:42.040,0:58:46.420
okay you still can totally do the

0:58:43.780,0:58:49.840
program even a 12-step program if that’s

0:58:46.420,0:58:52.450
not your thing what spirituality is is

0:58:49.840,0:58:55.180
getting to is that connectedness that

0:58:52.450,0:58:59.350
being whole in bond body and mind and

0:58:55.180,0:59:02.050
most importantly realizing that we are

0:58:59.350,0:59:06.430
but a speck each one of us in this great

0:59:02.050,0:59:09.400
universe and that we don’t have control

0:59:06.430,0:59:11.290
over very much and that we don’t have

0:59:09.400,0:59:13.810
control over this either and we need

0:59:11.290,0:59:15.670
some help and that is so hard especially

0:59:13.810,0:59:18.460
for professionals I think with

0:59:15.670,0:59:19.960
alcoholism to ask for help because we’ve

0:59:18.460,0:59:21.580
been independent and we’ve been well

0:59:19.960,0:59:23.920
educated and we’ve cared for ourselves

0:59:21.580,0:59:26.380
and others for as long as we can

0:59:23.920,0:59:28.000
remember and now all of a sudden we’re

0:59:26.380,0:59:29.560
supposed to be asking for help we’re

0:59:28.000,0:59:31.240
supposed to be reaching out to others

0:59:29.560,0:59:33.460
when we have a craving to drink we’re

0:59:31.240,0:59:36.310
supposed to be sharing that hundred and

0:59:33.460,0:59:39.250
six page fourth step with another human

0:59:36.310,0:59:41.650
being are you kidding me but that all

0:59:39.250,0:59:43.420
ties in to the spiritual component I’ve

0:59:41.650,0:59:45.580
got a lot of friends in my health care

0:59:43.420,0:59:48.280
recovery meeting who just they’re just

0:59:45.580,0:59:50.380
that group is their higher power they

0:59:48.280,0:59:52.660
know that if they need help if they need

0:59:50.380,0:59:54.400
to run something by people bring it to

0:59:52.660,0:59:57.310
the group and we’re all in their corner

0:59:54.400,0:59:59.590
and if anyone has a crisis there’d be

0:59:57.310,1:00:01.870
half a dozen people like at least

0:59:59.590,1:00:04.780
showing up to help them

1:00:01.870,1:00:06.880
that is a that’s a pretty spiritual

1:00:04.780,1:00:09.160
experience in itself of feeling that

1:00:06.880,1:00:10.660
sense of belonging that a lot of times

1:00:09.160,1:00:13.270
many of us started drinking to try to

1:00:10.660,1:00:16.090
belong or to try to feel better about

1:00:13.270,1:00:18.100
ourselves socially and so that find that

1:00:16.090,1:00:20.470
type of connection with people a real

1:00:18.100,1:00:21.700
genuine authentic connection that

1:00:20.470,1:00:24.430
doesn’t have anything to do with alcohol

1:00:21.700,1:00:27.370
that’s new for a lot of us and it’s just

1:00:24.430,1:00:29.890
an incredible it I cannot say enough for

1:00:27.370,1:00:32.050
the fellowship of any type of support

1:00:29.890,1:00:35.170
group because nobody’s going to be able

1:00:32.050,1:00:37.210
to help a person the same way that

1:00:35.170,1:00:39.880
someone can who’s been there who’s done

1:00:37.210,1:00:41.860
it and gotten through it is more

1:00:39.880,1:00:44.200
important you know we share these

1:00:41.860,1:00:46.600
stories I go to treatment centers and

1:00:44.200,1:00:49.150
the jail and meet with these women who

1:00:46.600,1:00:51.460
are kind of brand-new and gosh that’s so

1:00:49.150,1:00:53.200
important for me to look back and see oh

1:00:51.460,1:00:55.270
yeah that’s where I don’t wanna be again

1:00:53.200,1:00:56.650
I remember that I remember that but then

1:00:55.270,1:00:58.300
on the flip side they can hopefully look

1:00:56.650,1:01:00.970
at me and my story and what I was able

1:00:58.300,1:01:03.790
to get through and how I’m able to do

1:01:00.970,1:01:06.010
good now and find that inspirational

1:01:03.790,1:01:09.610
that even if someone is bottom barrel as

1:01:06.010,1:01:11.470
me made it that they can too and and

1:01:09.610,1:01:13.960
your listeners out there I know it can

1:01:11.470,1:01:16.750
seem awful and you’ve got an intelligent

1:01:13.960,1:01:20.290
base that listens to you and that

1:01:16.750,1:01:23.290
actually is a detriment because we tend

1:01:20.290,1:01:28.210
to think this is 12-step thing that’s

1:01:23.290,1:01:31.270
way too simple or we can outsmart it we

1:01:28.210,1:01:33.400
we got master’s degrees PhDs or whatever

1:01:31.270,1:01:36.490
right and we should be able to be

1:01:33.400,1:01:39.430
smarter than this but it has nothing to

1:01:36.490,1:01:42.490
do with brain power it’s it’s it’s not

1:01:39.430,1:01:43.870
that at all so making those little deals

1:01:42.490,1:01:45.820
with yourself or trying to figure out

1:01:43.870,1:01:47.500
how you can use parts of what’s

1:01:45.820,1:01:49.420
recommended to you in rehab and not

1:01:47.500,1:01:52.180
other parts that’s a recipe for disaster

1:01:49.420,1:01:56.140
I know this because I did it I lived it

1:01:52.180,1:01:57.940
and I know it yeah you know I think the

1:01:56.140,1:01:59.890
most powerful aspect of this book was

1:01:57.940,1:02:02.800
that I felt like I was with you through

1:01:59.890,1:02:05.080
the journey of it you know and as I was

1:02:02.800,1:02:08.920
reading it I felt like I was connected

1:02:05.080,1:02:12.640
to your struggle with it and I think the

1:02:08.920,1:02:14.970
first time that I felt like as a reader

1:02:12.640,1:02:18.210
reading it I felt you

1:02:14.970,1:02:20.400
the first time that you kind of there

1:02:18.210,1:02:22.740
was a light at the end of the tunnel so

1:02:20.400,1:02:24.690
to speak was the moment where you you

1:02:22.740,1:02:27.390
know sort of recognized that you’re in

1:02:24.690,1:02:30.990
fact blessed that you know you you

1:02:27.390,1:02:34.109
started to have gratitude for you know

1:02:30.990,1:02:35.640
your life and who you are and I think I

1:02:34.109,1:02:38.160
think that was the first time unless I’m

1:02:35.640,1:02:40.890
mistaken that you know there was this

1:02:38.160,1:02:43.950
positive acknowledgment from from you

1:02:40.890,1:02:48.990
you know about yourself and I think that

1:02:43.950,1:02:51.329
that’s so important yes and I think that

1:02:48.990,1:02:54.599
that removing the substance and starting

1:02:51.329,1:02:59.190
to get a hold of what it had done to me

1:02:54.599,1:03:03.210
how it hurt me and realizing that again

1:02:59.190,1:03:06.000
that step one work just admitting holy

1:03:03.210,1:03:09.089
cow this has caused this and then doing

1:03:06.000,1:03:11.310
something about it and feeling like as I

1:03:09.089,1:03:13.079
was learning from these people who had a

1:03:11.310,1:03:15.060
couple years or eight years or however

1:03:13.079,1:03:18.810
many years of sobriety and looking at

1:03:15.060,1:03:20.550
them and be like oh oh I I think I can

1:03:18.810,1:03:22.829
do this I think I want what she has or

1:03:20.550,1:03:26.819
he has and they’re not drinking and that

1:03:22.829,1:03:29.180
gave me inspiration and my sponsor and

1:03:26.819,1:03:32.579
my counselors and anyone in the program

1:03:29.180,1:03:34.260
continually stress gratitude and so at

1:03:32.579,1:03:35.069
first you know my gratitude list was

1:03:34.260,1:03:39.329
fairly small

1:03:35.069,1:03:43.730
I had my health back I had plenty to eat

1:03:39.329,1:03:46.920
I was warm I you know those those basics

1:03:43.730,1:03:49.079
so already out of the gate fresh in

1:03:46.920,1:03:52.200
rehab I was better off than half of the

1:03:49.079,1:03:54.240
world’s population and so it was really

1:03:52.200,1:03:57.180
important for me to look at it that way

1:03:54.240,1:03:59.069
and then as time passed I start adding

1:03:57.180,1:04:01.260
to that gratitude list and little things

1:03:59.069,1:04:04.230
that I had taken for granted before I

1:04:01.260,1:04:07.460
got to add back on that list I tell you

1:04:04.230,1:04:10.020
that’s a pretty cool thing when amazing

1:04:07.460,1:04:11.910
relationship with your kids gets to be

1:04:10.020,1:04:14.819
added back to a list that it had

1:04:11.910,1:04:16.980
previously disappeared from that’s

1:04:14.819,1:04:20.599
that’s what this is all about is

1:04:16.980,1:04:24.000
regaining some things and and and

1:04:20.599,1:04:27.780
getting a life that’s authentic genuine

1:04:24.000,1:04:28.410
real and meaningful that that I never

1:04:27.780,1:04:30.600
imagined

1:04:28.410,1:04:31.530
as possible so am i grateful recovering

1:04:30.600,1:04:33.120
alcoholic

1:04:31.530,1:04:35.850
absolutely when people used to say that

1:04:33.120,1:04:38.850
my first meetings I would be so upset

1:04:35.850,1:04:41.340
like seriously grateful recovering

1:04:38.850,1:04:42.990
alcoholic there there is nothing to be

1:04:41.340,1:04:44.460
grateful about here this sucks I don’t

1:04:42.990,1:04:47.850
want it I don’t want to be it I don’t

1:04:44.460,1:04:51.600
want to be in this group but eventually

1:04:47.850,1:04:55.350
over time you start to see that oh wait

1:04:51.600,1:04:58.530
a minute I’ve gotten some pretty cool

1:04:55.350,1:05:01.290
things happen because because of my

1:04:58.530,1:05:08.130
alcoholism not in spite of but because

1:05:01.290,1:05:10.530
of and I am indeed grateful every single

1:05:08.130,1:05:13.500
day that I get to wake up and get to be

1:05:10.530,1:05:16.080
sober and get to do it another day I’m

1:05:13.500,1:05:19.230
not cured I’ll never be cured and every

1:05:16.080,1:05:21.470
day’s but a reprieve from the addiction

1:05:19.230,1:05:24.390
and if I were to pick up today I’d be

1:05:21.470,1:05:26.370
worse off than I was the last time I

1:05:24.390,1:05:29.430
drank in that airport toilet stall back

1:05:26.370,1:05:31.020
before I got sober because it progresses

1:05:29.430,1:05:34.470
even if you’re not actively drinking it

1:05:31.020,1:05:36.660
gets worse it’s just waiting for you and

1:05:34.470,1:05:39.030
a lot of us including myself had to test

1:05:36.660,1:05:41.730
out that theory there’s no way this

1:05:39.030,1:05:44.400
disease gets worse if I’ve been away

1:05:41.730,1:05:46.470
from booze for three months it should be

1:05:44.400,1:05:50.430
much easier for me to control it now

1:05:46.470,1:05:52.110
right not at all it does those those

1:05:50.430,1:05:53.610
neurotransmitters start doing the exact

1:05:52.110,1:05:57.150
same thing they were doing before and

1:05:53.610,1:06:00.810
it’s you need more you need it more

1:05:57.150,1:06:02.940
often it’s it’s confounding I mean ahead

1:06:00.810,1:06:05.010
I think another reason that this story

1:06:02.940,1:06:07.470
is so resounding is that it’s just it’s

1:06:05.010,1:06:10.200
just real you know it’s it’s just raw

1:06:07.470,1:06:12.450
and real and that’s the way life is you

1:06:10.200,1:06:15.090
know it’s not it’s not pretty it’s

1:06:12.450,1:06:17.700
actually quite ugly and it that’s

1:06:15.090,1:06:20.970
sometimes that’s that’s exactly how life

1:06:17.700,1:06:23.310
is you know and yeah but you know I I

1:06:20.970,1:06:26.490
want to give you a chance to address you

1:06:23.310,1:06:28.170
know the the audience and if if anyone’s

1:06:26.490,1:06:30.900
out there and they’re hearing this

1:06:28.170,1:06:32.910
message and you know here you are you

1:06:30.900,1:06:35.820
are you know in every way a success

1:06:32.910,1:06:38.400
story you’re still alive and you have

1:06:35.820,1:06:41.349
this opportunity to you know write about

1:06:38.400,1:06:44.049
write about this experience that you’ve

1:06:41.349,1:06:45.670
that you’ve in a way you conquered you

1:06:44.049,1:06:49.029
know you didn’t let it conquer you you

1:06:45.670,1:06:51.430
conquered it and you know here you are

1:06:49.029,1:06:52.809
on this show writing a book about it

1:06:51.430,1:06:54.400
what about you know what about the

1:06:52.809,1:06:56.739
people that are alone out there and

1:06:54.400,1:06:59.430
they’re struggling what what can you say

1:06:56.739,1:07:03.339
to them what can how can we reach them

1:06:59.430,1:07:04.599
yeah well it’s so hard because often

1:07:03.339,1:07:06.190
when you’re in the throes of the

1:07:04.599,1:07:10.359
addiction you you don’t want to be

1:07:06.190,1:07:12.549
reached and and usually there’s very

1:07:10.359,1:07:15.549
little that anyone else out there can

1:07:12.549,1:07:18.219
say to make someone want to get better

1:07:15.549,1:07:20.289
or to fix their problem for them or to

1:07:18.219,1:07:24.849
push them into rehab I know for me I

1:07:20.289,1:07:29.609
couldn’t truly get better until it was

1:07:24.849,1:07:32.469
my idea but I would encourage

1:07:29.609,1:07:34.809
particularly you chronic relapsing out

1:07:32.469,1:07:38.619
there who think you’re lost cause

1:07:34.809,1:07:43.660
you’ve been in 30 treatment centers and

1:07:38.619,1:07:46.089
it you just can’t can’t get it you keep

1:07:43.660,1:07:48.069
trying I’ve seen that I’ve seen people

1:07:46.089,1:07:50.650
go through that many rehabs and detoxes

1:07:48.069,1:07:52.779
and centers and finally finally

1:07:50.650,1:07:54.130
something happens and they get it but

1:07:52.779,1:07:55.650
that’s because they kept trying and they

1:07:54.130,1:08:00.489
didn’t give up and let it kill them

1:07:55.650,1:08:03.400
because that is what’s gonna happen you

1:08:00.489,1:08:07.449
end up if you’re a chronic serious

1:08:03.400,1:08:11.259
alcoholic it just leads to jails

1:08:07.449,1:08:14.920
institutions and death it’s a very grim

1:08:11.259,1:08:18.069
prospect that starts from a few sips of

1:08:14.920,1:08:21.130
alcohol so it’s very dangerous and I

1:08:18.069,1:08:22.750
would implore you to keep trying to read

1:08:21.130,1:08:25.210
everything you can get to join some

1:08:22.750,1:08:27.040
online support groups to find websites

1:08:25.210,1:08:29.920
and blogs where you connect with

1:08:27.040,1:08:31.839
somebody go on Twitter there’s recovery

1:08:29.920,1:08:35.049
Posse there’s all these different groups

1:08:31.839,1:08:38.230
on on Twitter where it’s you don’t have

1:08:35.049,1:08:40.900
to even tell who you really are but you

1:08:38.230,1:08:44.589
can get some major support that way and

1:08:40.900,1:08:47.489
that can help you feel not so alone but

1:08:44.589,1:08:50.409
yet in somewhat of a safe anonymous way

1:08:47.489,1:08:52.540
get out there somebody has gone through

1:08:50.409,1:08:54.850
what you’re going through and they can

1:08:52.540,1:08:57.220
be able to tell you their story

1:08:54.850,1:08:59.020
how they got there and how they got

1:08:57.220,1:09:00.520
better it’s all about experience

1:08:59.020,1:09:03.250
strength and hope in this program it’s

1:09:00.520,1:09:07.030
why it works that you know no matter

1:09:03.250,1:09:08.890
what your program is the people who’ve

1:09:07.030,1:09:10.330
been in it for a while helps newcomers

1:09:08.890,1:09:13.000
and that’s the way it should be in life

1:09:10.330,1:09:14.950
don’t you think for sure

1:09:13.000,1:09:16.810
I mean Karla this is I mean I’m so glad

1:09:14.950,1:09:19.270
that you are here still with us today

1:09:16.810,1:09:21.340
and that you’ve written this story and

1:09:19.270,1:09:24.160
done this and it’s such a as I said it’s

1:09:21.340,1:09:26.650
such a resounding just realness to this

1:09:24.160,1:09:28.180
where can people go to pick up this book

1:09:26.650,1:09:33.550
is there a website that they can go to

1:09:28.180,1:09:36.250
to find this book yep absolutely of

1:09:33.550,1:09:38.920
course you can get it on Amazon and

1:09:36.250,1:09:41.470
Goodreads and Barnes & Noble Target

1:09:38.920,1:09:45.880
anyplace books are sold as far as

1:09:41.470,1:09:48.880
reaching me which I invite and love you

1:09:45.880,1:09:52.020
can reach me at from the brink at

1:09:48.880,1:09:55.120
yahoo.com that’s my personal email and

1:09:52.020,1:09:57.850
also I have a website of the same title

1:09:55.120,1:10:00.340
from the brink org and there you’ll find

1:09:57.850,1:10:04.680
some blog posts and some connections and

1:10:00.340,1:10:09.340
a link to the book there are two but

1:10:04.680,1:10:12.660
hopefully with those types of not just

1:10:09.340,1:10:15.610
my links with all of the different

1:10:12.660,1:10:17.890
supports available up there your

1:10:15.610,1:10:21.000
listeners have a lot to choose from and

1:10:17.890,1:10:24.460
and you can do it guys you really can

1:10:21.000,1:10:27.340
Wow guys I mean what a story

1:10:24.460,1:10:29.800
and Carla I just thank you so much for

1:10:27.340,1:10:32.890
being here guys we’re gonna get out of

1:10:29.800,1:10:34.740
here the book is called from the brink

1:10:32.890,1:10:37.890
of the drink

1:10:34.740,1:10:42.270
Kylee recommend this read my guest

1:10:37.890,1:10:47.370
Carla Giovanni they’ll get that

1:10:42.270,1:10:49.080
eventually but you guys can find this

1:10:47.370,1:10:52.830
book from the brink of the drink online

1:10:49.080,1:10:54.690
as Carla said and you may have this far

1:10:52.830,1:10:58.220
thank you so much for listening we will

1:10:54.690,1:11:01.550
be back next week with another episode

1:10:58.220,1:11:01.550
have a good night

Share Button