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us the only podcast designed to fuse
0:00:02.580,0:00:06.480
your left and right brain hemispheres
0:00:04.560,0:00:08.790
and feed it the most entertaining and
0:00:06.480,0:00:11.309
mentally engaging topics on the planet
0:00:08.790,0:00:13.230
as we approach our ascent please make
0:00:11.309,0:00:15.509
sure your frontal temporal and occipital
0:00:13.230,0:00:18.150
lobes are in their full upright position
0:00:15.509,0:00:20.609
as you take your seat consciousness
0:00:18.150,0:00:23.189
relax your senses and allow us to take
0:00:20.609,0:00:33.120
you on a journey we are the intimate
0:00:23.189,0:00:35.010
strangers thank you for listening the
0:00:33.120,0:00:37.500
human experiences in session my name is
0:00:35.010,0:00:40.350
Xavier katana my guest for tonight is
0:00:37.500,0:00:44.070
Matthew Cale matt is a US military
0:00:40.350,0:00:46.170
combat veteran PTSD survivor and founder
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matt has been on the frontlines of drug
0:00:46.170,0:00:51.930
policy advocacy and reform in regards to
0:00:49.230,0:00:54.000
plant medicine and using unorthodox
0:00:51.930,0:00:55.800
treatment methods to treat PTSD and
0:00:54.000,0:00:58.590
trauma since 2013
0:00:55.800,0:01:01.170
Matt served in the hundred and first
0:00:58.590,0:01:04.860
Airborne Division in Afghanistan where
0:01:01.170,0:01:07.950
an accident sent him home sent him sent
0:01:04.860,0:01:10.890
him home injured traumatized and
0:01:07.950,0:01:13.110
suffering from crippling PTSD Matt is
0:01:10.890,0:01:15.150
the founder of veterans for natural
0:01:13.110,0:01:17.820
rights and organization that aims to
0:01:15.150,0:01:19.770
build community support and resources
0:01:17.820,0:01:22.470
for veterans that are suffering with
0:01:19.770,0:01:25.229
PTSD and trauma he is also the president
0:01:22.470,0:01:28.080
of we the weed for warriors project in
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Colorado and host of the 1620 show on
0:01:28.080,0:01:32.189
the veterans Channel he is one of the
0:01:30.600,0:01:33.750
people featured in the documentary we’re
0:01:32.189,0:01:36.540
gonna be talking about tonight from
0:01:33.750,0:01:40.400
shock to aw Matt it’s such a pleasure
0:01:36.540,0:01:43.049
welcome to hxp thank you for having me
0:01:40.400,0:01:45.030
so Matt I mean where do we begin
0:01:43.049,0:01:47.159
let’s let’s tie mean I love the
0:01:45.030,0:01:50.820
documentary I watched I got a chance to
0:01:47.159,0:01:52.259
watch it a couple times and I mean let’s
0:01:50.820,0:01:55.549
let’s start with a little bit of your
0:01:52.259,0:01:58.219
background what what led you to choose
0:01:55.549,0:02:01.619
military service why did you decide to
0:01:58.219,0:02:05.119
do that with your life oh wow
0:02:01.619,0:02:08.520
that is a whole can of worms right there
0:02:05.119,0:02:11.099
it’s actually not clear at what drove me
0:02:08.520,0:02:12.980
to military service I grew up with a
0:02:11.099,0:02:15.830
father who was
0:02:12.980,0:02:17.720
colonel in the Marine Corps and he’s
0:02:15.830,0:02:19.819
pretty authoritarian and his parenting
0:02:17.720,0:02:21.980
style and we just didn’t really get
0:02:19.819,0:02:25.190
along so I kind of swore off military
0:02:21.980,0:02:28.940
service early on in my life but by the
0:02:25.190,0:02:34.790
time I had a son of my own I was working
0:02:28.940,0:02:37.430
in I was working in a music recording
0:02:34.790,0:02:39.950
studio as an audio engineer and the
0:02:37.430,0:02:42.709
money was good but it was intermittent
0:02:39.950,0:02:44.870
I’d get a contract and it’d be great for
0:02:42.709,0:02:46.579
a little while and then you know there’d
0:02:44.870,0:02:50.560
be a month or two where I didn’t have
0:02:46.579,0:02:53.239
any work and that that kind of lifestyle
0:02:50.560,0:02:55.970
works well for a single guy but not so
0:02:53.239,0:02:59.840
well for people with dependents so I
0:02:55.970,0:03:02.239
started examining other options and one
0:02:59.840,0:03:04.519
of the things that has been constant in
0:03:02.239,0:03:07.519
my life is pushing my own boundaries and
0:03:04.519,0:03:11.890
doing things that I never thought that I
0:03:07.519,0:03:14.599
would do and one of those things was
0:03:11.890,0:03:17.209
kicking down doors blowing stuff up and
0:03:14.599,0:03:20.090
and unfortunately part of the job is
0:03:17.209,0:03:23.030
killing people and I really didn’t know
0:03:20.090,0:03:24.470
if I was up to the task but I was
0:03:23.030,0:03:28.160
willing to challenge myself to see if I
0:03:24.470,0:03:30.319
was so I signed on the dotted line and I
0:03:28.160,0:03:32.239
raised my hand and I swore to support
0:03:30.319,0:03:35.239
and defend the Constitution of the
0:03:32.239,0:03:38.599
United States and was deployed shortly
0:03:35.239,0:03:42.109
after but unfortunately it turns out
0:03:38.599,0:03:43.669
that not many military people are really
0:03:42.109,0:03:45.230
charged with supporting and defending
0:03:43.669,0:03:48.190
the Constitution of the United States
0:03:45.230,0:03:51.669
and the oath of enlistment is all but
0:03:48.190,0:03:56.329
bankrupt in its meaning these days so
0:03:51.669,0:03:59.870
there’s a definite sense of moral injury
0:03:56.329,0:04:02.959
when someone who signs up for all the
0:03:59.870,0:04:05.840
right reasons ends up being a
0:04:02.959,0:04:11.629
stormtrooper for the empire essentially
0:04:05.840,0:04:14.150
yeah you know and so moral injury actual
0:04:11.629,0:04:16.099
trauma and then survivor’s guilt
0:04:14.150,0:04:18.949
I really characterizes three separate
0:04:16.099,0:04:21.950
things but they’re all very comorbid and
0:04:18.949,0:04:23.570
they have a lot of the same symptoms but
0:04:21.950,0:04:25.640
the three are very different but I have
0:04:23.570,0:04:26.670
all three definitely from both of my
0:04:25.640,0:04:28.980
deployments
0:04:26.670,0:04:31.950
it’s incredible and you know let me just
0:04:28.980,0:04:34.590
thank you for your service because it’s
0:04:31.950,0:04:38.520
important I think to cover you know this
0:04:34.590,0:04:39.870
and it led you to exploring plant
0:04:38.520,0:04:40.710
medicine because Western medicine had
0:04:39.870,0:04:42.480
failed you
0:04:40.710,0:04:47.270
you know you had tried to commit suicide
0:04:42.480,0:04:50.940
and you you were you lost all hope right
0:04:47.270,0:04:51.840
absolutely I was completely at below
0:04:50.940,0:04:53.820
rock bottom
0:04:51.840,0:04:55.500
there was no bottom to this this whole
0:04:53.820,0:05:00.050
that what I was in it just kept going
0:04:55.500,0:05:05.880
down and I was completely hopeless
0:05:00.050,0:05:07.470
bereft of any kind of idea of a normal
0:05:05.880,0:05:10.920
life that there was there was not even
0:05:07.470,0:05:14.160
the the inkling of a normal life in in
0:05:10.920,0:05:17.490
my head I believed that I was a murderer
0:05:14.160,0:05:20.160
and that I deserved die
0:05:17.490,0:05:22.680
you know I don’t I don’t think that the
0:05:20.160,0:05:25.230
human brain and psychologically I don’t
0:05:22.680,0:05:28.410
think the human brain is wired to take
0:05:25.230,0:05:30.450
another life you know and so when when
0:05:28.410,0:05:32.190
soldiers come back from combat they’re
0:05:30.450,0:05:34.050
they’re mostly forgotten about you know
0:05:32.190,0:05:37.460
we forget about you know our combat
0:05:34.050,0:05:40.590
veterans and and there’s so many
0:05:37.460,0:05:42.480
suicides that happen and it’s horrifying
0:05:40.590,0:05:45.450
you know what happens to these people
0:05:42.480,0:05:47.490
that serve our country and like you said
0:05:45.450,0:05:50.430
I mean it’s it’s morally bankrupt
0:05:47.490,0:05:52.890
so eventually you came to a point where
0:05:50.430,0:05:55.650
I mean how did you hear about ayahuasca
0:05:52.890,0:05:58.230
how did you find out about this
0:05:55.650,0:06:00.540
believe it or not I actually studied all
0:05:58.230,0:06:04.320
of the Indo alkyl amine hallucinogens
0:06:00.540,0:06:08.460
slash entheogens in college back in the
0:06:04.320,0:06:10.020
late 90s I was a behavioral neuroscience
0:06:08.460,0:06:13.350
student at Appalachian State University
0:06:10.020,0:06:16.380
and I did a lot of my work on the
0:06:13.350,0:06:18.930
anatomy and how it corresponds to the
0:06:16.380,0:06:21.800
function of the brain but I spent all of
0:06:18.930,0:06:24.390
my spare time researching the
0:06:21.800,0:06:27.780
psychopharmacology of endo kill amines
0:06:24.390,0:06:32.130
and cannabinoids so I was kind of well
0:06:27.780,0:06:36.060
prepared for my life after the service
0:06:32.130,0:06:39.510
but but I had to overcome my hasn’t my
0:06:36.060,0:06:40.529
hesitancy to re-engage these substances
0:06:39.510,0:06:43.079
again
0:06:40.529,0:06:46.229
I mean a when you first get out of the
0:06:43.079,0:06:48.749
military its transition is very
0:06:46.229,0:06:51.179
difficult for almost everyone they spend
0:06:48.749,0:06:52.679
so much time teaching you to be a killer
0:06:51.179,0:06:56.339
but they don’t spend any time to
0:06:52.679,0:06:58.499
deprogram that killer and so when I got
0:06:56.339,0:07:00.029
back to the civilian arena you know I
0:06:58.499,0:07:02.069
was still trying to be the good soldier
0:07:00.029,0:07:04.319
and still trying to do everything that I
0:07:02.069,0:07:08.149
was told everything I was ordered to
0:07:04.319,0:07:10.979
which included taking this massive and
0:07:08.149,0:07:16.469
debilitating regimen of pharmaceutical
0:07:10.979,0:07:19.319
pills so this this constant stuffing my
0:07:16.469,0:07:22.709
face full of pills really kept me in a
0:07:19.319,0:07:25.559
sort of psychological stasis and I
0:07:22.709,0:07:27.839
wasn’t able to address the trauma or
0:07:25.559,0:07:30.479
even recognize the trauma that I had
0:07:27.839,0:07:33.289
undergone not just in the military but
0:07:30.479,0:07:36.869
in my childhood too believe it or not
0:07:33.289,0:07:40.679
that the common thread for all of this
0:07:36.869,0:07:45.149
stuff whether it’s PTSD suicide or
0:07:40.679,0:07:48.899
addiction is childhood trauma dr. Gabor
0:07:45.149,0:07:51.959
Monta does an amazing piece about how
0:07:48.899,0:07:54.299
the the roots of addiction are based in
0:07:51.959,0:07:58.769
childhood trauma and people are trying
0:07:54.299,0:08:02.069
to medicate the pain away and they use
0:07:58.769,0:08:04.860
all of the the tools that are readily
0:08:02.069,0:08:06.479
available but extremely harmful you know
0:08:04.860,0:08:10.229
things like cocaine heroin
0:08:06.479,0:08:13.139
methamphetamine or in my case it was the
0:08:10.229,0:08:17.639
opiate pills and the benzodiazepine
0:08:13.139,0:08:21.419
pills and all of these other substances
0:08:17.639,0:08:24.499
that kind of numbed me to the pain but
0:08:21.419,0:08:27.719
it also numbed me to the variations and
0:08:24.499,0:08:31.769
the goods and Bad’s in life so I was
0:08:27.719,0:08:33.509
just completely destroyed I mean my body
0:08:31.769,0:08:38.429
was starting to fall apart
0:08:33.509,0:08:41.579
I gained massive amounts of weight I was
0:08:38.429,0:08:43.589
a zombie in every sense of the word I
0:08:41.579,0:08:46.589
would fall asleep in the middle of my
0:08:43.589,0:08:49.379
sentences I wasn’t able to carry a
0:08:46.589,0:08:51.269
conversation it was it was horrible the
0:08:49.379,0:08:54.370
the quality of life was absolutely
0:08:51.269,0:08:56.350
terrible and eventually I had to
0:08:54.370,0:08:58.600
start looking for other options and
0:08:56.350,0:09:02.200
that’s really when I stepped outside the
0:08:58.600,0:09:05.230
VA system and their method of trying to
0:09:02.200,0:09:08.830
treat these illnesses which falls far
0:09:05.230,0:09:12.160
short but that the plant medicines are
0:09:08.830,0:09:14.470
particularly good at treating yeah yeah
0:09:12.160,0:09:16.690
I mean we’ve had dr. Korb or amante on
0:09:14.470,0:09:18.640
the show several times and I mean I’ve
0:09:16.690,0:09:21.970
I’ve been such a huge proponent of of
0:09:18.640,0:09:23.680
this research for so long you know Rick
0:09:21.970,0:09:26.650
Doblin has been on the show Rick
0:09:23.680,0:09:29.710
Strassman Dennis McKenna so I mean this
0:09:26.650,0:09:31.990
is right down our alley and everything
0:09:29.710,0:09:33.910
you’re doing with from shock to odd and
0:09:31.990,0:09:36.490
like I said I’d love the documentary
0:09:33.910,0:09:41.140
because in the beginning it really kind
0:09:36.490,0:09:43.300
of showcases the the I mean the the pure
0:09:41.140,0:09:46.360
pain of coming back and trying to
0:09:43.300,0:09:49.390
reassimilate and being unable to and and
0:09:46.360,0:09:51.220
then you know it changes its shifts I
0:09:49.390,0:09:54.580
mean you can feel this perceptual shift
0:09:51.220,0:09:58.089
when you get to a point where you drink
0:09:54.580,0:10:00.040
the tea and I mean I want to get into
0:09:58.089,0:10:01.780
that you know there you know Western
0:10:00.040,0:10:04.210
medicine has failed you you’ve tried to
0:10:01.780,0:10:06.850
commit suicide nothing is working for
0:10:04.210,0:10:08.710
you whatsoever you get to this place and
0:10:06.850,0:10:10.180
you’re about to drink this
0:10:08.710,0:10:10.960
hallucinogenic tea which you’ve
0:10:10.180,0:10:13.780
researched
0:10:10.960,0:10:15.870
I mean neurologically tell me about that
0:10:13.780,0:10:17.530
first session how did it go for you oh
0:10:15.870,0:10:21.310
wow
0:10:17.530,0:10:23.710
it was absolutely revelatory I mean it
0:10:21.310,0:10:25.600
changed everything the first session
0:10:23.710,0:10:29.589
just in itself and it seemed actually
0:10:25.600,0:10:33.070
pretty simple at the time but in
0:10:29.589,0:10:34.570
actuality I I was sitting there and you
0:10:33.070,0:10:36.430
know that he kept coming around with the
0:10:34.570,0:10:39.280
cups of tea and I kept drinking every
0:10:36.430,0:10:44.140
booster that was offered and I think I
0:10:39.280,0:10:46.510
got up two to four cups and I was
0:10:44.140,0:10:50.230
sitting there and my I keep you know
0:10:46.510,0:10:52.270
making these faces he’s trying to like
0:10:50.230,0:10:54.220
kind of contain my stomach because my
0:10:52.270,0:10:56.830
stomach started acting up and it was
0:10:54.220,0:11:00.700
just like okay shut up stomach that we
0:10:56.830,0:11:04.089
got this hold it together and so you
0:11:00.700,0:11:06.880
know I was kind of like you know just
0:11:04.089,0:11:08.140
making faces in an attempt to kind of
0:11:06.880,0:11:11.770
keep it down
0:11:08.140,0:11:13.360
and the the facilitator there came by
0:11:11.770,0:11:17.200
and he said hey how you doing man
0:11:13.360,0:11:18.640
and I said well you know I’m a little
0:11:17.200,0:11:21.040
bit uncomfortable but I’m not really
0:11:18.640,0:11:23.050
entirely sure I don’t know what I’m
0:11:21.040,0:11:26.070
supposed to be feeling really I don’t
0:11:23.050,0:11:28.420
know what’s supposed to be different and
0:11:26.070,0:11:31.000
and he said okay we’ll try a few more
0:11:28.420,0:11:32.980
things and he came around with these
0:11:31.000,0:11:37.540
little kichaka’s they’re they’re like
0:11:32.980,0:11:40.810
palm fronds sort of rattles and he would
0:11:37.540,0:11:44.610
he spread this like flowery water onto
0:11:40.810,0:11:48.970
the the kichaka’s and shake them around
0:11:44.610,0:11:55.000
your head and um there was something
0:11:48.970,0:11:56.830
about that sound that set me off and I
0:11:55.000,0:11:59.710
just couldn’t contain it anymore it just
0:11:56.830,0:12:02.890
started coming up and I grabbed the the
0:11:59.710,0:12:05.830
bucket really quickly and I just started
0:12:02.890,0:12:09.360
hurling as hard as I could into that
0:12:05.830,0:12:12.220
bucket and I puked up everything it was
0:12:09.360,0:12:14.950
not just the contents of my stomach
0:12:12.220,0:12:18.310
it was the contents of my soul for the
0:12:14.950,0:12:25.390
previous couple years and what I found
0:12:18.310,0:12:27.940
is is I I was I was purging out a kind
0:12:25.390,0:12:31.330
of a demon almost it I looked at the
0:12:27.940,0:12:37.180
bottom I could see through my white
0:12:31.330,0:12:39.190
plastic bucket I could see the the vomit
0:12:37.180,0:12:42.550
at the bottom of the bucket and it was
0:12:39.190,0:12:44.500
dark black and it just looked like demon
0:12:42.550,0:12:49.260
to me so I kind of personified it that
0:12:44.500,0:12:52.840
way and I realized oh man I just I just
0:12:49.260,0:12:55.680
expelled a demon out of me how the hell
0:12:52.840,0:12:59.470
did that demon get in there and then I
0:12:55.680,0:13:03.010
realized oh wait a second you put that
0:12:59.470,0:13:07.120
demon in there so you have wronged
0:13:03.010,0:13:09.490
yourself by putting this demon in there
0:13:07.120,0:13:11.710
and then your entire struggle over the
0:13:09.490,0:13:14.140
previous couple years has all been an
0:13:11.710,0:13:17.560
attempt to control this thing that is
0:13:14.140,0:13:19.090
now imprisoned inside of you and I keep
0:13:17.560,0:13:20.560
pushing it back down and pushing it back
0:13:19.090,0:13:21.880
down and pushing it back down and
0:13:20.560,0:13:24.810
holding on to it
0:13:21.880,0:13:27.850
trying to control it but it kept
0:13:24.810,0:13:30.700
bothering me it kept screwing up my life
0:13:27.850,0:13:35.710
and getting in the way of a true
0:13:30.700,0:13:38.170
experience of existence and once I let
0:13:35.710,0:13:40.240
it out and into the bucket then I
0:13:38.170,0:13:41.260
realized oh my god you didn’t just do
0:13:40.240,0:13:44.320
this to yourself
0:13:41.260,0:13:46.090
you did that to the demon – you took
0:13:44.320,0:13:49.870
this thing that was just like flying out
0:13:46.090,0:13:52.810
here in the ether and you imprison it in
0:13:49.870,0:13:55.060
your own body you have violated not just
0:13:52.810,0:13:58.360
your body but you have violated the
0:13:55.060,0:14:02.800
demons freedom also and I had to
0:13:58.360,0:14:07.360
apologize to the demon and I I I did I
0:14:02.800,0:14:09.940
cried and I said god I’m so sorry how
0:14:07.360,0:14:12.520
could I have done this and and what do I
0:14:09.940,0:14:14.980
have to do what what how can i how can I
0:14:12.520,0:14:18.100
make this up to you and the demon just
0:14:14.980,0:14:20.050
said just let it go just let it go and I
0:14:18.100,0:14:22.540
said it’s not that easy
0:14:20.050,0:14:26.590
I can’t just let it go I can’t just do
0:14:22.540,0:14:31.000
that and he said back to me yeah it is
0:14:26.590,0:14:34.180
just let go and at that moment it just
0:14:31.000,0:14:37.600
made a lot of sense to me and I let go
0:14:34.180,0:14:40.090
and at that moment is where you see me
0:14:37.600,0:14:46.990
stand up and raise my arms to the sky
0:14:40.090,0:14:49.720
and I’ve had never felt freer man Wow
0:14:46.990,0:14:52.530
it’s incredible I mean that there is a
0:14:49.720,0:14:55.060
compound on this planet that you know
0:14:52.530,0:14:57.370
possibly hypothetically theoretically
0:14:55.060,0:14:59.410
that you know indigenous populations
0:14:57.370,0:15:02.350
have been using for thousands of years
0:14:59.410,0:15:05.080
you know these shamans drink this herbal
0:15:02.350,0:15:07.060
tea and you know maybe the they have
0:15:05.080,0:15:09.370
these vision quests and and go and they
0:15:07.060,0:15:11.500
can you know diagnose like what’s going
0:15:09.370,0:15:14.830
on with with these people spiritually
0:15:11.500,0:15:16.930
and then you know somehow it infiltrates
0:15:14.830,0:15:19.540
you know Western culture there’s this
0:15:16.930,0:15:21.880
psychedelic Renaissance that’s happening
0:15:19.540,0:15:25.390
with plant medicine ayahuasca namely
0:15:21.880,0:15:27.070
ayahuasca maps the multiple in area
0:15:25.390,0:15:28.810
Association for psychedelic studies were
0:15:27.070,0:15:30.490
at doblin I mean they’re there at the
0:15:28.810,0:15:32.770
forefront of this and I mean this is why
0:15:30.490,0:15:34.710
I love the documentary from shock to all
0:15:32.770,0:15:37.140
so much is because
0:15:34.710,0:15:40.620
you know we’ve like I said we’ve had so
0:15:37.140,0:15:41.670
many of these these shows now over the
0:15:40.620,0:15:45.030
six years that we’ve been doing this
0:15:41.670,0:15:47.610
this this broadcast and I remember there
0:15:45.030,0:15:51.720
was a service woman that emailed me once
0:15:47.610,0:15:53.730
and she said and she said Xavier you
0:15:51.720,0:15:56.460
know I’ve I’ve never really considered
0:15:53.730,0:15:59.220
this ever you know but after listening
0:15:56.460,0:16:02.520
to the show you know I’m changing my
0:15:59.220,0:16:04.860
mind about this and it really struck me
0:16:02.520,0:16:09.720
you know it really struck me that you
0:16:04.860,0:16:14.250
know it it it is possible for this this
0:16:09.720,0:16:15.860
plant to help people right and you know
0:16:14.250,0:16:18.090
I want to talk to you about
0:16:15.860,0:16:21.090
neurologically you know I’m sure you
0:16:18.090,0:16:22.950
know what neurogenesis is and there are
0:16:21.090,0:16:24.510
only three four or five compounds
0:16:22.950,0:16:26.550
handful of compounds that do this in the
0:16:24.510,0:16:28.110
brain – tell us about neurogenesis and
0:16:26.550,0:16:30.980
what’s going on in the brain when a
0:16:28.110,0:16:38.870
person drinks this tea are you Oscar
0:16:30.980,0:16:38.870
well both the beta-carboline switch
0:16:38.900,0:16:47.100
inhibit monoamine oxidase and also DMT
0:16:44.340,0:16:50.340
they both stimulate neurogenesis in the
0:16:47.100,0:16:53.060
brain and it’s actually true of most of
0:16:50.340,0:16:56.490
the Indo alkyl amines almost every
0:16:53.060,0:16:58.890
entheogen out there will stimulate new
0:16:56.490,0:17:03.290
connections and new neuron growth in the
0:16:58.890,0:17:09.000
brain so these substances are really
0:17:03.290,0:17:11.040
taking advantage of a route of healing
0:17:09.000,0:17:13.080
that has kind of been known to
0:17:11.040,0:17:16.440
psychology for some time there’s a
0:17:13.080,0:17:18.209
reason why the SSRIs and the SNRIs they
0:17:16.440,0:17:21.180
say that you have to take them for 30
0:17:18.209,0:17:23.010
days before you start to feel the
0:17:21.180,0:17:25.110
effects of it and that’s because it
0:17:23.010,0:17:27.510
takes about 30 days for those substances
0:17:25.110,0:17:31.560
to generate new neurons and new neuronal
0:17:27.510,0:17:33.000
connections mm-hmm so these substances
0:17:31.560,0:17:36.300
especially the tryptamines
0:17:33.000,0:17:39.030
they tend to jumpstart the process and
0:17:36.300,0:17:41.100
you start having massive amounts of
0:17:39.030,0:17:43.700
neural connection between areas of the
0:17:41.100,0:17:45.570
brain that are formerly unconnected and
0:17:43.700,0:17:48.210
neurogenesis between all of these
0:17:45.570,0:17:52.649
disparate sections of the brain all
0:17:48.210,0:17:55.559
almost immediately so ayahuasca having
0:17:52.649,0:18:00.510
the dual components of the
0:17:55.559,0:18:03.899
beta-carbolines that inhibit Mao and the
0:18:00.510,0:18:06.330
DMT which is a straight tryptamine that
0:18:03.899,0:18:07.770
stimulates your brain to connect in all
0:18:06.330,0:18:11.360
kinds of different ways it normally
0:18:07.770,0:18:13.559
doesn’t these two substances together
0:18:11.360,0:18:15.450
probably with a number of other
0:18:13.559,0:18:18.539
substances that are also in the plants
0:18:15.450,0:18:20.399
they serve together in order to create a
0:18:18.539,0:18:22.880
one-two punch to your brain to really
0:18:20.399,0:18:26.159
kick it out of all of those bad and
0:18:22.880,0:18:30.380
negative thought loops that you have
0:18:26.159,0:18:34.140
become so accustomed to that your ego
0:18:30.380,0:18:36.990
continually beats you up with so these
0:18:34.140,0:18:41.640
things can really change your mind about
0:18:36.990,0:18:45.480
how you are in relation to your trauma
0:18:41.640,0:18:47.850
how your trauma defines you most people
0:18:45.480,0:18:50.159
when they’re really deep in that dark
0:18:47.850,0:18:52.860
hole their trauma completely defines
0:18:50.159,0:18:56.460
them but when you step outside of
0:18:52.860,0:18:58.950
yourself with this ego reduction that
0:18:56.460,0:19:02.370
the tryptamines bring you can finally
0:18:58.950,0:19:04.740
see that your trauma doesn’t really have
0:19:02.370,0:19:07.230
much to do with you it made you who you
0:19:04.740,0:19:10.710
are but it does not have to determine
0:19:07.230,0:19:13.830
who you will be and you can heal from
0:19:10.710,0:19:17.659
these things that’s my lesson from the
0:19:13.830,0:19:24.330
use of all things and Thea genic is that
0:19:17.659,0:19:26.850
PTSD trauma it’s curable mmm yeah I mean
0:19:24.330,0:19:28.200
it’s so powerful and I think I think
0:19:26.850,0:19:31.289
probably your you know your first
0:19:28.200,0:19:33.659
session with the tea could probably be
0:19:31.289,0:19:37.169
branded the I Love You session do you
0:19:33.659,0:19:39.529
know in all regards and I think that’s a
0:19:37.169,0:19:43.169
huge part of it is just remembering that
0:19:39.529,0:19:46.289
we you know there’s there’s love it is
0:19:43.169,0:19:48.179
love and it’s it’s capable you know it’s
0:19:46.289,0:19:51.000
it’s there we’re capable of reaching it
0:19:48.179,0:19:54.390
within ourselves and you know so so
0:19:51.000,0:19:56.340
ayahuasca is made of two plants that
0:19:54.390,0:19:58.980
it’s the vine and the leaf right and the
0:19:56.340,0:20:00.570
the the vine is the mo I and the leaf is
0:19:58.980,0:20:02.280
it has the DMT
0:20:00.570,0:20:05.130
uh-huh but there are all kinds of
0:20:02.280,0:20:08.610
alkaloids that are that are in the plant
0:20:05.130,0:20:12.570
themselves yeah correct especially in
0:20:08.610,0:20:14.190
the vine the vine itself is the maoi so
0:20:12.570,0:20:16.950
there’s all kinds of beta-carboline in
0:20:14.190,0:20:18.510
there there is harming there’s harm main
0:20:16.950,0:20:20.520
there’s harm of law
0:20:18.510,0:20:24.600
there’s tetrahydroharmine there’s
0:20:20.520,0:20:27.000
tetrahedra harm of all there are dozens
0:20:24.600,0:20:29.040
of different entourage elements in this
0:20:27.000,0:20:32.910
plant and they all add up to some kind
0:20:29.040,0:20:36.300
of mono amine urge ik inhibition and
0:20:32.910,0:20:38.010
they just they simply take your enzyme
0:20:36.300,0:20:39.930
that normally breaks down things like
0:20:38.010,0:20:44.280
serotonin or anything that looks like it
0:20:39.930,0:20:46.830
and it inhibits that enzyme then in the
0:20:44.280,0:20:50.280
chacruna chacruna is the leaf and it’s
0:20:46.830,0:20:53.910
from a different bush in the Amazon and
0:20:50.280,0:20:56.670
chacruna has dimethyltryptamine in it it
0:20:53.910,0:20:58.770
also has n methyl tryptamine and a
0:20:56.670,0:21:01.230
number of other entourage elements in
0:20:58.770,0:21:05.130
there with it that are similar to DMT it
0:21:01.230,0:21:07.980
but DMT is the primary alkaloid DMT is
0:21:05.130,0:21:10.670
possibly one of the most visual
0:21:07.980,0:21:15.180
hallucinogens on the face of the planet
0:21:10.670,0:21:18.150
it is an extremely potent experience
0:21:15.180,0:21:19.740
especially by itself too but it’s very
0:21:18.150,0:21:24.960
short-lived because of the monoamine
0:21:19.740,0:21:28.530
oxidase enzyme if some people have been
0:21:24.960,0:21:31.830
known to extract DMT from either
0:21:28.530,0:21:33.720
chacruna or mimosa hostilius there’s
0:21:31.830,0:21:36.810
several other plants acacia confuse a
0:21:33.720,0:21:39.840
that all have high levels of DMT so this
0:21:36.810,0:21:41.940
this is everywhere in nature DMT is one
0:21:39.840,0:21:43.800
of the most ubiquitous chemical
0:21:41.940,0:21:46.290
substances on the face of planet Earth
0:21:43.800,0:21:48.450
it’s present in so many species hundreds
0:21:46.290,0:21:52.860
and hundreds of plants in in at least
0:21:48.450,0:21:55.140
dozens of animals so we take these two
0:21:52.860,0:21:59.610
substances that shook the the chacruna
0:21:55.140,0:22:04.430
the bush in the Amazon and then the vine
0:21:59.610,0:22:09.330
the ayahuasca vine and right yeah
0:22:04.430,0:22:11.160
Banat been a stereoscopic yeah so you
0:22:09.330,0:22:14.250
you could combine these two ingredients
0:22:11.160,0:22:14.400
and the copy inhibits your enzymes of
0:22:14.250,0:22:16.830
the
0:22:14.400,0:22:19.020
dmt can actually reach your bloodstream
0:22:16.830,0:22:23.370
and then you have a relatively
0:22:19.020,0:22:27.900
long-lasting DMT experience so the DMT
0:22:23.370,0:22:29.910
whereas normally if smoked can go to
0:22:27.900,0:22:34.620
your brain and disappear in a matter of
0:22:29.910,0:22:36.660
15 20 minutes the MA Aoi allows it to
0:22:34.620,0:22:40.260
persist in your bloodstream for two to
0:22:36.660,0:22:42.330
three hours so you have a lot more time
0:22:40.260,0:22:46.760
to sort of interface with the chemical
0:22:42.330,0:22:49.650
and go to this place where you
0:22:46.760,0:22:52.410
renegotiate your relationship to your
0:22:49.650,0:22:54.990
ego and renegotiate your relationship to
0:22:52.410,0:22:57.120
your trauma and then bring something
0:22:54.990,0:23:00.330
back that you can apply to your everyday
0:22:57.120,0:23:03.420
life that will then change you forever
0:23:00.330,0:23:05.490
more it’s so incredible to me Matt like
0:23:03.420,0:23:08.370
this that this exists and we have access
0:23:05.490,0:23:11.490
to it you know the only problem is it
0:23:08.370,0:23:14.160
seems like you know these pharmaceutical
0:23:11.490,0:23:17.610
companies and drug policy is completely
0:23:14.160,0:23:20.820
backwards I mean this is illegal by law
0:23:17.610,0:23:23.520
and you know most people are you know
0:23:20.820,0:23:26.130
flying to down to South America just to
0:23:23.520,0:23:26.880
access this they’re you know struggling
0:23:26.130,0:23:29.340
to find it
0:23:26.880,0:23:31.680
what’s going on with drug policy right
0:23:29.340,0:23:33.840
now is it just you know this corporate
0:23:31.680,0:23:36.930
banker thing or they’re just trying to
0:23:33.840,0:23:39.630
farm humans farm are suffering keep us
0:23:36.930,0:23:42.060
sort of addicted to these pharmaceutical
0:23:39.630,0:23:44.640
drugs what you know what’s going on with
0:23:42.060,0:23:46.740
with drug policy and it’s reforming
0:23:44.640,0:23:50.130
we’re starting to see a bit of reform
0:23:46.740,0:23:52.790
very slowly but it seems to me the drug
0:23:50.130,0:23:54.720
war is an abject failure would you agree
0:23:52.790,0:23:56.730
absolutely
0:23:54.720,0:23:58.440
I mean it does nothing but criminalize
0:23:56.730,0:24:00.420
the population in the United States and
0:23:58.440,0:24:03.690
indeed the population of the entire
0:24:00.420,0:24:05.820
world I mean if you are guilty of using
0:24:03.690,0:24:07.380
the substance it doesn’t happen to be on
0:24:05.820,0:24:09.510
the approved list in order to improve
0:24:07.380,0:24:12.300
your life then you’re a criminal
0:24:09.510,0:24:14.280
period so it’s not really a war on drugs
0:24:12.300,0:24:16.500
it’s a war on people it’s a war on the
0:24:14.280,0:24:20.100
citizens of the United States and of the
0:24:16.500,0:24:23.550
world yeah and I mean I think it was the
0:24:20.100,0:24:27.299
Controlled Substances Act 1971 Richard
0:24:23.550,0:24:31.499
Nixon and then the Reagan administration
0:24:27.299,0:24:33.659
and and their campaign just say no you
0:24:31.499,0:24:35.610
know it’s it’s amazing where we have
0:24:33.659,0:24:37.470
sort of ended up and you know I’m so
0:24:35.610,0:24:38.970
glad there are organizations such as
0:24:37.470,0:24:41.639
yours and what you guys are doing
0:24:38.970,0:24:44.610
especially for veterans because I mean
0:24:41.639,0:24:47.220
here are people that go you know to
0:24:44.610,0:24:48.210
serve our country and you know perhaps
0:24:47.220,0:24:48.840
they don’t know what they’re getting
0:24:48.210,0:24:49.950
into
0:24:48.840,0:24:52.559
you know perhaps they’re going over
0:24:49.950,0:24:55.289
there because out of necessity perhaps
0:24:52.559,0:24:57.090
you know they they just can’t afford to
0:24:55.289,0:24:59.129
do anything else they can’t afford to go
0:24:57.090,0:25:00.989
to college you know yet unless until
0:24:59.129,0:25:04.590
they serve and they come back and
0:25:00.989,0:25:06.659
they’re broken in pieces and you know it
0:25:04.590,0:25:09.269
doesn’t just have to be veterans it many
0:25:06.659,0:25:11.399
people go through this many people are
0:25:09.269,0:25:14.940
walking around with trauma and as you
0:25:11.399,0:25:17.690
said absolutely the work of dr. Gabor
0:25:14.940,0:25:20.429
Monta you know we carry around this
0:25:17.690,0:25:23.279
childhood you know trauma for our whole
0:25:20.429,0:25:25.919
lives and you know it seems like we’re
0:25:23.279,0:25:29.429
just searching for something anything
0:25:25.919,0:25:34.289
and I you ask a plant medicine seems to
0:25:29.429,0:25:38.100
be that thing right now I think that
0:25:34.289,0:25:41.340
especially you hit on an amazing point
0:25:38.100,0:25:43.879
there the fact that trauma is the one
0:25:41.340,0:25:46.470
thing that really ties us all together
0:25:43.879,0:25:47.850
it doesn’t really matter who you are
0:25:46.470,0:25:49.799
there’s some kind of traumatic
0:25:47.850,0:25:52.889
experience in your past that you could
0:25:49.799,0:25:57.049
benefit from facing feeling and then
0:25:52.889,0:25:59.700
moving through so combat veterans
0:25:57.049,0:26:01.769
universally they tend to also have a
0:25:59.700,0:26:03.869
little bit of childhood trauma that’s
0:26:01.769,0:26:06.029
usually the predictor for what adult
0:26:03.869,0:26:08.070
PTSD is so if you have a little bit of
0:26:06.029,0:26:09.809
childhood trauma and then you have the
0:26:08.070,0:26:11.789
military trauma on top of it the
0:26:09.809,0:26:14.129
military trauma is really just the thing
0:26:11.789,0:26:18.539
that cracks the egg open and then once
0:26:14.129,0:26:22.379
the egg is open the yogic flying it all
0:26:18.539,0:26:25.019
back inside so that’s what I found with
0:26:22.379,0:26:29.369
my own trauma is the fact that the
0:26:25.019,0:26:31.830
military trauma just really I found that
0:26:29.369,0:26:35.669
the the the veins and the roots of it
0:26:31.830,0:26:37.619
went so deep into my being that they
0:26:35.669,0:26:40.620
didn’t just stop with the military it
0:26:37.619,0:26:42.720
went all the way back to early childhood
0:26:40.620,0:26:45.480
I think that that’s something that we
0:26:42.720,0:26:48.630
all feel to some degree or another we
0:26:45.480,0:26:50.370
have 22 veterans at the upper end that
0:26:48.630,0:26:53.910
are committing suicide every day and
0:26:50.370,0:26:54.330
maybe about 39 who are overdosing every
0:26:53.910,0:26:57.300
day
0:26:54.330,0:27:00.150
and dying from as a result of the
0:26:57.300,0:27:02.130
overdose but if you look at the larger
0:27:00.150,0:27:05.580
numbers it’s about a hundred and twenty
0:27:02.130,0:27:08.430
one individuals in America today that
0:27:05.580,0:27:11.580
are committing suicide every day 22 is a
0:27:08.430,0:27:13.470
my normal ready give that and granted
0:27:11.580,0:27:15.179
veterans are a tiny minority the
0:27:13.470,0:27:17.550
population we definitely have an
0:27:15.179,0:27:19.350
outsized influence on that number but
0:27:17.550,0:27:21.590
the fact is is the vast majority of
0:27:19.350,0:27:24.960
trauma is in the civilian population and
0:27:21.590,0:27:26.429
with addiction and overdose you’re
0:27:24.960,0:27:27.830
talking about a hundred and ninety-eight
0:27:26.429,0:27:34.080
people dying
0:27:27.830,0:27:38.700
that’s ridiculous every single day 121
0:27:34.080,0:27:41.250
from suicide and 198 from addiction and
0:27:38.700,0:27:44.040
overdose so that total you’re getting
0:27:41.250,0:27:47.820
about 320 people a day who are dying
0:27:44.040,0:27:48.690
from untreated trauma that’s it that’s
0:27:47.820,0:27:51.290
the bottom line
0:27:48.690,0:27:56.790
untreated trauma is what is causing this
0:27:51.290,0:27:59.520
massive not only human toll but societal
0:27:56.790,0:28:01.890
toll an economic toll how many days are
0:27:59.520,0:28:03.600
lost because somebody just can’t pull it
0:28:01.890,0:28:06.480
together enough in order to go to work
0:28:03.600,0:28:08.370
how many days are lost how many how much
0:28:06.480,0:28:10.410
productivity is lost because somebody
0:28:08.370,0:28:12.390
loses a job because they keep screwing
0:28:10.410,0:28:16.559
it up because they just can’t handle it
0:28:12.390,0:28:19.710
because of their trauma how much of the
0:28:16.559,0:28:21.630
crime in America is actually caused by
0:28:19.710,0:28:23.070
criminals who are simply acting out the
0:28:21.630,0:28:26.610
trauma that was done to them at a very
0:28:23.070,0:28:28.950
early age what kind of economic and
0:28:26.610,0:28:31.530
social impact could we have if we
0:28:28.950,0:28:33.840
started opening these medicines up to
0:28:31.530,0:28:36.059
all people regardless of what their
0:28:33.840,0:28:38.130
background is veterans you know we’re
0:28:36.059,0:28:40.710
the poster boys for PTSD right now but
0:28:38.130,0:28:43.950
it’s our job to call attention the fact
0:28:40.710,0:28:47.160
that the main repository of trauma in
0:28:43.950,0:28:51.390
our society is in the civilian side and
0:28:47.160,0:28:54.419
we all deserve recognition for our pain
0:28:51.390,0:28:56.960
and nobody’s pain is
0:28:54.419,0:29:00.119
any more important than anybody else’s
0:28:56.960,0:29:01.859
Wow such a powerful statement you know I
0:29:00.119,0:29:04.529
think you mentioned it a little bit
0:29:01.859,0:29:06.779
earlier when you were talking about your
0:29:04.529,0:29:08.669
journey and you you know you said there
0:29:06.779,0:29:10.859
was there was something about using the
0:29:08.669,0:29:12.840
opiates that numbed the pain for you and
0:29:10.859,0:29:15.029
you know I’ve been there I’ve you know
0:29:12.840,0:29:19.019
I’ve I remember after my first session
0:29:15.029,0:29:22.289
and I I never drank again you know but
0:29:19.019,0:29:25.559
in a world where alcohol is available on
0:29:22.289,0:29:29.039
every street corner you know and it just
0:29:25.559,0:29:31.590
seems like it’s it’s resistant to this
0:29:29.039,0:29:34.080
healing aspect of things and you know I
0:29:31.590,0:29:36.289
think it’s so important that we we
0:29:34.080,0:29:38.970
recognize we change the perception of
0:29:36.289,0:29:41.269
these compounds because I think some
0:29:38.970,0:29:43.470
people you know they hear ayahuasca or
0:29:41.269,0:29:45.690
psychedelics which I’m not really fond
0:29:43.470,0:29:47.639
of that word but you know they hear
0:29:45.690,0:29:49.049
about this and they just they just do
0:29:47.639,0:29:52.139
they turn off you know it’s like a
0:29:49.049,0:29:54.989
switch but I mean it’s it’s obvious that
0:29:52.139,0:29:56.999
this is helping people and you know like
0:29:54.989,0:29:59.129
you said this this comes to it’s not
0:29:56.999,0:30:02.100
just your service that that you looked
0:29:59.129,0:30:04.169
back at and and you know saw that
0:30:02.100,0:30:06.899
there’s trauma here it went back all the
0:30:04.169,0:30:11.759
way to your childhood and it affected
0:30:06.899,0:30:14.850
something deep down in in your soul yeah
0:30:11.759,0:30:19.649
and I really think that that’s sort of
0:30:14.850,0:30:21.629
the the crux of it veterans you know
0:30:19.649,0:30:24.359
like I said we are the poster boys with
0:30:21.629,0:30:27.720
PTSD right now and love us or hate us
0:30:24.359,0:30:29.580
we’re natural leaders so we get back to
0:30:27.720,0:30:31.980
civilian life and if we find something
0:30:29.580,0:30:34.710
that works for us there’s not many
0:30:31.980,0:30:37.409
veterans that are gonna just shut up and
0:30:34.710,0:30:39.239
like go melt away into a corner we’re
0:30:37.409,0:30:41.879
gonna start speaking up about it because
0:30:39.239,0:30:44.700
hey this works guys I don’t want another
0:30:41.879,0:30:47.580
one of my brothers or sisters to die so
0:30:44.700,0:30:50.480
please please please listen and take
0:30:47.580,0:30:53.879
advantage of these methods of healing so
0:30:50.480,0:30:56.759
that is really where the veteran kind of
0:30:53.879,0:31:00.600
fits into the whole drug war agenda is
0:30:56.759,0:31:03.299
the fact that we have a unique voice and
0:31:00.600,0:31:05.669
we can speak to a certain segment of the
0:31:03.299,0:31:08.280
population that normally is completely
0:31:05.669,0:31:12.840
unfazed by any sort of
0:31:08.280,0:31:15.270
argument Pro psychedelics namely the the
0:31:12.840,0:31:18.500
it’s it’s the conservative side of the
0:31:15.270,0:31:22.260
spectrum the fact remains is that
0:31:18.500,0:31:25.020
veterans we yes we have raised our hand
0:31:22.260,0:31:27.360
and we have pledged our life to the
0:31:25.020,0:31:29.190
support and defense of the Constitution
0:31:27.360,0:31:31.740
of the United States and also to the
0:31:29.190,0:31:35.370
people of America and there are not many
0:31:31.740,0:31:37.710
conservatives out there who will deny
0:31:35.370,0:31:40.230
that and they will even if they disagree
0:31:37.710,0:31:42.240
they’re at least gonna listen they’re
0:31:40.230,0:31:45.240
gonna give us a chance to say our piece
0:31:42.240,0:31:50.360
and I’ve really taken advantage of that
0:31:45.240,0:31:52.740
by going into the capitals of state
0:31:50.360,0:31:55.980
governments and also national
0:31:52.740,0:31:59.040
governments I actually held a
0:31:55.980,0:32:02.450
congressional brief in the US Capitol in
0:31:59.040,0:32:04.640
DC on December 12th where I talked about
0:32:02.450,0:32:07.440
psychedelics as treatment for PTSD
0:32:04.640,0:32:09.480
myself and another veteran – his name is
0:32:07.440,0:32:13.860
Jonathan lieu Becky and he was part of
0:32:09.480,0:32:16.980
the MDMA trials so you know there is
0:32:13.860,0:32:19.560
some small change happening but I really
0:32:16.980,0:32:21.480
believe that veterans are going to be
0:32:19.560,0:32:25.620
the linchpin we’re really the tip of the
0:32:21.480,0:32:28.620
spear on this we are pushing the idea of
0:32:25.620,0:32:31.140
plant medicine right up into the centers
0:32:28.620,0:32:33.240
of power in Washington DC and every
0:32:31.140,0:32:35.580
State Capitol across the nation yeah
0:32:33.240,0:32:37.560
it’s it’s amazing and and I applaud you
0:32:35.580,0:32:40.080
for your work and doing this and
0:32:37.560,0:32:42.750
bringing it to the mainstream as it were
0:32:40.080,0:32:45.660
you know can you imagine can you imagine
0:32:42.750,0:32:47.490
if there were you know ayahuasca centers
0:32:45.660,0:32:50.310
on every street corner instead of
0:32:47.490,0:32:53.100
alcohol just available freely I mean and
0:32:50.310,0:32:55.320
and people could access this and maybe
0:32:53.100,0:32:57.660
treat you know some of that that
0:32:55.320,0:33:00.300
struggle and find you know healing true
0:32:57.660,0:33:03.120
healing and it wasn’t just you know you
0:33:00.300,0:33:05.490
found you found healing in the family
0:33:03.120,0:33:08.100
aspect as well can you talk a little bit
0:33:05.490,0:33:11.250
about you know how it helped you in your
0:33:08.100,0:33:13.380
connection to your family and your your
0:33:11.250,0:33:15.020
sort of everyday life and your your
0:33:13.380,0:33:16.830
connection to your wife and your kids
0:33:15.020,0:33:20.460
yeah absolutely
0:33:16.830,0:33:21.900
um so when you have a psychedelic
0:33:20.460,0:33:23.970
experience or an
0:33:21.900,0:33:28.020
anthea genex experience however you want
0:33:23.970,0:33:31.230
to term it um you are basically shown an
0:33:28.020,0:33:35.340
open door which leads you to a vision of
0:33:31.230,0:33:36.680
how things could be but psychedelics
0:33:35.340,0:33:39.450
themselves aren’t the answer
0:33:36.680,0:33:42.030
psychedelics can show you the way but
0:33:39.450,0:33:45.240
really the work has to be done in your
0:33:42.030,0:33:47.220
everyday life you have to start making
0:33:45.240,0:33:49.380
changes in the way you actually live
0:33:47.220,0:33:51.390
your life the way you think from moments
0:33:49.380,0:33:54.420
a moment the way you react to certain
0:33:51.390,0:33:56.700
triggers and stimuli you have to change
0:33:54.420,0:33:59.940
that on a basic fundamental level in
0:33:56.700,0:34:02.490
order for you to get better and that’s
0:33:59.940,0:34:04.260
what they talk about quote doing the
0:34:02.490,0:34:06.090
work you know there’s a lot of people
0:34:04.260,0:34:08.220
that go to the psychedelics and then
0:34:06.090,0:34:10.890
afterwards they have to do the work and
0:34:08.220,0:34:12.510
doing the work involves changing the way
0:34:10.890,0:34:14.810
you interact with your experience
0:34:12.510,0:34:20.220
interact with reality interact with life
0:34:14.810,0:34:23.280
so I had to immediately start reviewing
0:34:20.220,0:34:25.080
almost everything that I did in life and
0:34:23.280,0:34:27.450
and believe it or not it wasn’t just
0:34:25.080,0:34:30.360
ayahuasca that I pursued as soon as I
0:34:27.450,0:34:33.360
tried ayahuasca I realized that these
0:34:30.360,0:34:35.669
things can really work and I determined
0:34:33.360,0:34:38.220
that I need to know everything there is
0:34:35.669,0:34:43.530
to know about all of the indle alkyl
0:34:38.220,0:34:46.020
amine entheogens and so a month after I
0:34:43.530,0:34:48.510
took ayahuasca on from Choctaw I went
0:34:46.020,0:34:50.399
down to Peru and I recorded a movie
0:34:48.510,0:34:54.810
called soldiers of the vine which is
0:34:50.399,0:34:57.120
available for free on YouTube and then a
0:34:54.810,0:35:00.840
month after that I went down to Mexico
0:34:57.120,0:35:03.600
and I took ibogaine and also toad which
0:35:00.840,0:35:06.630
is five methoxy DMT a month after that I
0:35:03.600,0:35:09.330
was exploring peyote here in the States
0:35:06.630,0:35:13.730
and a month after that I was trying
0:35:09.330,0:35:17.550
mushrooms under the guidance of a gringo
0:35:13.730,0:35:21.440
so uhm 2016 was a bit of a crazy year
0:35:17.550,0:35:23.640
for me but I emerged from 2016 a
0:35:21.440,0:35:25.710
completely different person with a
0:35:23.640,0:35:28.140
completely different relationship to my
0:35:25.710,0:35:31.590
trauma my trauma no longer determined
0:35:28.140,0:35:35.609
who I was as a person it was simply
0:35:31.590,0:35:41.130
something that was a part
0:35:35.609,0:35:43.829
of the greater whole yeah so yeah anyway
0:35:41.130,0:35:46.220
so the the point being is is that these
0:35:43.829,0:35:48.869
these substances can can really catalyze
0:35:46.220,0:35:50.789
profound changes in your life but you
0:35:48.869,0:35:53.009
have to be willing to do the work in
0:35:50.789,0:35:56.539
between you can’t just go back to your
0:35:53.009,0:35:59.220
old habits and your old ways of
0:35:56.539,0:36:01.349
interacting with with the universe
0:35:59.220,0:36:02.819
around you you have to actually change
0:36:01.349,0:36:05.039
and one of the ways that I started
0:36:02.819,0:36:08.130
changing is I started rien gauging my
0:36:05.039,0:36:11.160
family in a huge way my son was born
0:36:08.130,0:36:12.989
just before military service and then
0:36:11.160,0:36:16.529
when I got in the military I was never
0:36:12.989,0:36:19.079
there I was gone from sunup sundown
0:36:16.529,0:36:22.589
training and then a few months after
0:36:19.079,0:36:26.369
that I was deployed for almost you know
0:36:22.589,0:36:27.960
a year and a quarter and then I was home
0:36:26.369,0:36:30.630
for a few months and then I deployed
0:36:27.960,0:36:32.660
again for another year except that time
0:36:30.630,0:36:36.450
I got medevac’d and when I got medevac’d
0:36:32.660,0:36:38.489
it was even worse because I was home but
0:36:36.450,0:36:40.940
I was on all these medications so I was
0:36:38.489,0:36:43.499
really truly absent I was completely
0:36:40.940,0:36:45.420
messed up in the head and I was a zombie
0:36:43.499,0:36:47.460
I was drooling on myself I couldn’t hold
0:36:45.420,0:36:49.920
a conversation there was no way that I
0:36:47.460,0:36:52.079
could actually father my children you
0:36:49.920,0:36:53.880
know I couldn’t be there for them so I
0:36:52.079,0:36:57.749
was absent for their entire childhood
0:36:53.880,0:36:59.849
and it really really messed with me and
0:36:57.749,0:37:03.960
I talked about it a lot in in the film
0:36:59.849,0:37:06.569
but what the medicine led me back to is
0:37:03.960,0:37:10.619
the fact that I needed to rebuild my
0:37:06.569,0:37:13.950
relationship with them and I needed to
0:37:10.619,0:37:17.579
start from ground one like the ground
0:37:13.950,0:37:19.890
level you know and so the first thing I
0:37:17.579,0:37:23.220
started to do was re-engage with my wife
0:37:19.890,0:37:26.460
and even though I was reengaged my wife
0:37:23.220,0:37:28.019
I was still doing all of these other
0:37:26.460,0:37:30.239
things that had been important to my
0:37:28.019,0:37:32.999
healing up to that point which is like
0:37:30.239,0:37:35.190
helping other veterans and it’s really
0:37:32.999,0:37:38.489
just recently just within the past year
0:37:35.190,0:37:43.380
that I decided that I needed to really
0:37:38.489,0:37:46.980
start fixing all the lack of attention
0:37:43.380,0:37:49.140
that my kids had gotten from me so in
0:37:46.980,0:37:51.390
August of last year I
0:37:49.140,0:37:54.089
actually pulled my oldest son out of
0:37:51.390,0:37:57.599
school and I started homeschooling him
0:37:54.089,0:37:59.730
and I have actually I’ve believe it or
0:37:57.599,0:38:02.069
not I have complete completely
0:37:59.730,0:38:04.829
rearranged our relationship and I have a
0:38:02.069,0:38:06.990
completely new understanding and
0:38:04.829,0:38:09.809
appreciation for who he is as a human
0:38:06.990,0:38:11.910
being I don’t yell at him anymore we
0:38:09.809,0:38:16.279
just talk and we talk about everything
0:38:11.910,0:38:19.019
we talk about school and we talk about
0:38:16.279,0:38:21.119
friends and we talk about girls and we
0:38:19.019,0:38:23.279
talk about hopes and dreams and we talk
0:38:21.119,0:38:26.900
about the future we talk about College
0:38:23.279,0:38:31.319
we talk about life and it’s wonderful
0:38:26.900,0:38:32.130
it’s completely changed my own feeling
0:38:31.319,0:38:33.900
about myself
0:38:32.130,0:38:37.079
and my feeling about myself in
0:38:33.900,0:38:39.299
relationship to my family – yeah I mean
0:38:37.079,0:38:41.519
that’s so powerful man I love your words
0:38:39.299,0:38:44.220
I love that I love what you said about
0:38:41.519,0:38:46.200
not you can’t be lazy about this you
0:38:44.220,0:38:48.059
know it’s not like it’s not like this
0:38:46.200,0:38:50.160
cure-all there is no magic pill you
0:38:48.059,0:38:52.500
don’t show up to a session and suddenly
0:38:50.160,0:38:54.269
you’re just sort of healed and you know
0:38:52.500,0:38:56.490
you kind of move around and that’s it
0:38:54.269,0:38:59.130
it you have to as you said you have to
0:38:56.490,0:39:01.650
do the work you have to take it very
0:38:59.130,0:39:05.039
seriously I mean it is very serious and
0:39:01.650,0:39:07.490
and I think for me you know the tea
0:39:05.039,0:39:11.190
showed me so much and I would classify
0:39:07.490,0:39:14.819
my life as you know pre ayahuasca and
0:39:11.190,0:39:16.799
post ayahuasca just flat-out and you
0:39:14.819,0:39:18.930
know it took me a long time just to be
0:39:16.799,0:39:22.890
able to talk about some of the things
0:39:18.930,0:39:25.710
and I I don’t remember you know when I
0:39:22.890,0:39:29.039
cried the last time that I had cried and
0:39:25.710,0:39:32.609
my first session it was like I was my
0:39:29.039,0:39:35.160
face was you know wet sloppy mess and
0:39:32.609,0:39:37.470
you know and what you said about purging
0:39:35.160,0:39:39.720
I think is so on point you know there’s
0:39:37.470,0:39:42.750
something about it that is almost
0:39:39.720,0:39:45.240
spiritual you know I think maybe it does
0:39:42.750,0:39:48.630
go in there you know if your cells store
0:39:45.240,0:39:50.700
memory Faced or trauma maybe it kind of
0:39:48.630,0:39:54.299
finds those things those attachments
0:39:50.700,0:39:57.690
those demons and and then it’s it’s out
0:39:54.299,0:40:00.329
its out of you you know and as such it’s
0:39:57.690,0:40:02.730
such a powerful experience you know in
0:40:00.329,0:40:04.650
every angle and every facet
0:40:02.730,0:40:06.720
but you know as you said you know I I
0:40:04.650,0:40:10.079
think we have to be ready to do the work
0:40:06.720,0:40:12.390
within ourselves and and I’m so glad for
0:40:10.079,0:40:15.690
you that the relationship between you
0:40:12.390,0:40:17.490
and your son has evolved and you know I
0:40:15.690,0:40:19.530
think it’s about the collective it’s
0:40:17.490,0:40:21.960
it’s about the network that we create
0:40:19.530,0:40:24.329
around us it’s not just about the the
0:40:21.960,0:40:26.280
just individually us and our own
0:40:24.329,0:40:28.230
evolution but it’s also the evolution of
0:40:26.280,0:40:30.089
you know our family and the people that
0:40:28.230,0:40:31.829
we care about and our friends and and
0:40:30.089,0:40:35.280
the reason that I do this show to be
0:40:31.829,0:40:37.050
honest yeah it’s the evolution of
0:40:35.280,0:40:39.839
everyone that you come into contact with
0:40:37.050,0:40:42.240
because each time that you take a step
0:40:39.839,0:40:45.500
forward you’re kind of pulling along
0:40:42.240,0:40:47.849
everyone that is on the ride with you
0:40:45.500,0:40:50.970
there’s there’s no other way to really
0:40:47.849,0:40:55.170
describe it but you know the fact that I
0:40:50.970,0:40:59.240
have found this way out of a deep dark
0:40:55.170,0:41:02.510
hole this horrible horrific trauma has
0:40:59.240,0:41:04.829
basically created a roadmap by which
0:41:02.510,0:41:06.900
hundreds maybe thousands of other people
0:41:04.829,0:41:10.380
are now first starting to take their own
0:41:06.900,0:41:12.839
steps on that path I love it man and
0:41:10.380,0:41:14.190
there’s a quote there’s a quote that of
0:41:12.839,0:41:18.630
yours that I’ve really liked that I
0:41:14.190,0:41:21.119
found it no one in no one is free in
0:41:18.630,0:41:25.349
America so long as nature is illegal and
0:41:21.119,0:41:29.700
it’s so true you know absolutely because
0:41:25.349,0:41:32.190
if nature is illegal then what what the
0:41:29.700,0:41:34.020
heck is read them to us like if I can’t
0:41:32.190,0:41:36.420
plant a seed in the ground watch it grow
0:41:34.020,0:41:40.680
and then use it in order to feed clothe
0:41:36.420,0:41:45.480
or medicate myself then I am NOT free
0:41:40.680,0:41:47.760
period there is no no kind of reality in
0:41:45.480,0:41:51.569
which a person is free who can’t simply
0:41:47.760,0:41:55.760
put a seed into the ground that’s we are
0:41:51.569,0:41:59.990
under a completely backward and
0:41:55.760,0:42:03.720
totalitarian and tyrannical edict and
0:41:59.990,0:42:07.260
regime that creates these restrictions
0:42:03.720,0:42:09.810
upon us we are living in a jail in which
0:42:07.260,0:42:12.930
were not allowed to touch certain parts
0:42:09.810,0:42:16.200
of nature and I cannot abide by that
0:42:12.930,0:42:16.560
period I was I swore to support and
0:42:16.200,0:42:18.930
defend
0:42:16.560,0:42:20.190
the United States Constitution and when
0:42:18.930,0:42:23.370
I read through the United States
0:42:20.190,0:42:26.160
Constitution what it tells me is that it
0:42:23.370,0:42:29.760
was created to restrict powers of
0:42:26.160,0:42:32.430
government and not the people it was
0:42:29.760,0:42:35.580
designed to protect the rights of the
0:42:32.430,0:42:39.270
people to do anything they want so long
0:42:35.580,0:42:42.510
as they hurt no one else so if I decide
0:42:39.270,0:42:46.710
to drink a tea from an Amazonian jungle
0:42:42.510,0:42:49.230
plant so be it that should be completely
0:42:46.710,0:42:51.150
within our rights and priorities as
0:42:49.230,0:42:52.620
individual human beings and there is
0:42:51.150,0:42:55.980
nothing in the world that should come
0:42:52.620,0:42:57.990
between us and nature I love it I had
0:42:55.980,0:43:00.480
loved it so much and I couldn’t agree
0:42:57.990,0:43:04.050
more I think it the the current system
0:43:00.480,0:43:06.960
is absolutely archaic and I can’t see a
0:43:04.050,0:43:11.340
reason for it to exist the way it does
0:43:06.960,0:43:12.930
other than to enslave humanity and you
0:43:11.340,0:43:16.320
know it’s it’s time for us to do
0:43:12.930,0:43:19.410
something about that you know Matt we’ve
0:43:16.320,0:43:22.470
got about 15 minutes left and you know I
0:43:19.410,0:43:24.240
really want to reach out to you know the
0:43:22.470,0:43:26.310
people that maybe there’s a veteran
0:43:24.240,0:43:28.590
that’s gonna hear this and maybe they’re
0:43:26.310,0:43:32.220
on the fence about this you know or
0:43:28.590,0:43:36.210
there’s a person that is struggling from
0:43:32.220,0:43:38.370
this internal pain what’s your what’s
0:43:36.210,0:43:40.200
your sort of take away from this whole
0:43:38.370,0:43:41.970
journey that you’ve been on and what do
0:43:40.200,0:43:44.490
you do I mean what do you say to that
0:43:41.970,0:43:46.740
that veteran your brother or sister you
0:43:44.490,0:43:48.840
know whatever it may be what do you save
0:43:46.740,0:43:50.340
these people that are suffering out
0:43:48.840,0:43:52.590
there and they they just can’t seem to
0:43:50.340,0:43:55.860
find you know that thing that works for
0:43:52.590,0:43:57.270
them I think I would say you need to
0:43:55.860,0:44:00.090
live for yourself and not for other
0:43:57.270,0:44:02.820
people because so many of us are stuck
0:44:00.090,0:44:05.100
within the prison bars that society and
0:44:02.820,0:44:07.830
other people have created around us in
0:44:05.100,0:44:11.880
our own minds and you need to step
0:44:07.830,0:44:15.330
outside that box that box it was made by
0:44:11.880,0:44:19.020
other people for you but it’s not your
0:44:15.330,0:44:22.620
box you need to find out where you
0:44:19.020,0:44:27.030
actually live where you can actually go
0:44:22.620,0:44:30.440
as a human being not just bodily but
0:44:27.030,0:44:33.349
mentally – if cognitive freed
0:44:30.440,0:44:37.400
is not a right guaranteed by the
0:44:33.349,0:44:37.849
Constitution then I think Terence
0:44:37.400,0:44:41.180
Mckenna
0:44:37.849,0:44:43.130
said it that it’s not worth the hip that
0:44:41.180,0:44:44.869
it was written on its right the
0:44:43.130,0:44:48.380
Constitution is not worth the hemp it
0:44:44.869,0:44:50.299
was written on so I think that if you
0:44:48.380,0:44:53.150
were on the fence about these treatments
0:44:50.299,0:44:56.980
you don’t need to be I know
0:44:53.150,0:45:01.039
Green Berets I know SEAL Team six
0:44:56.980,0:45:03.710
members who are using endo alkyl amine
0:45:01.039,0:45:05.660
entheogens to improve their lives and to
0:45:03.710,0:45:09.349
get over trauma that they have incurred
0:45:05.660,0:45:11.270
as a result of service and as a result
0:45:09.349,0:45:15.579
of their childhood I know people in
0:45:11.270,0:45:18.260
Delta Force people in CAG who are
0:45:15.579,0:45:20.990
actually exploring their own minds and
0:45:18.260,0:45:25.819
their own souls with the help of these
0:45:20.990,0:45:28.339
plants and these substances so if you’re
0:45:25.819,0:45:30.680
on the fence about it don’t be these
0:45:28.339,0:45:33.500
things are very well proven with
0:45:30.680,0:45:37.359
thousands of years of use and the fact
0:45:33.500,0:45:40.789
is is Western medicine it’s like a child
0:45:37.359,0:45:43.279
it’s like a screaming baby and it has no
0:45:40.789,0:45:47.210
idea how to use all of these appendages
0:45:43.279,0:45:50.089
that are given to it there is so much
0:45:47.210,0:45:51.829
more that your mind is capable of and
0:45:50.089,0:45:54.020
there’s so much more that your body is
0:45:51.829,0:45:59.690
capable of there’s so much more that you
0:45:54.020,0:46:01.700
are capable of and these plants they’re
0:45:59.690,0:46:03.500
simply the beginning of it they will
0:46:01.700,0:46:07.220
show you the way but you have to walk
0:46:03.500,0:46:10.640
that path yourself indeed indeed my
0:46:07.220,0:46:12.770
friend um you know and what about what
0:46:10.640,0:46:14.839
about the people who you know haven’t
0:46:12.770,0:46:16.760
served at all the the you know people
0:46:14.839,0:46:18.680
who haven’t served in the military and
0:46:16.760,0:46:20.809
perhaps they’re they’re suffering you
0:46:18.680,0:46:22.460
know as he as you noted in your story
0:46:20.809,0:46:24.950
you know this this goes back to
0:46:22.460,0:46:26.720
childhood and youth you know dr. Gabor
0:46:24.950,0:46:29.000
motty’s work which i think is
0:46:26.720,0:46:32.240
revolutionary and he he talks about how
0:46:29.000,0:46:34.609
we carry around these traumas for our
0:46:32.240,0:46:37.130
whole lives and we never truly face them
0:46:34.609,0:46:39.770
you know whether they’re abandonment
0:46:37.130,0:46:41.160
issues or something else we never really
0:46:39.770,0:46:44.640
addressed them no one really
0:46:41.160,0:46:48.299
asks us what happened to you as a child
0:46:44.640,0:46:49.829
what happened to you you know and so
0:46:48.299,0:46:52.859
let’s let’s talk about that a little bit
0:46:49.829,0:46:54.240
and then we’ll wrap up but you know what
0:46:52.859,0:46:57.990
do you what do you say to someone who
0:46:54.240,0:46:59.910
hasn’t served at all yeah I mean we we
0:46:57.990,0:47:02.490
spend our whole lives of voiding these
0:46:59.910,0:47:04.260
topics I mean if something bad happened
0:47:02.490,0:47:05.789
to you when you’re a kid and somebody
0:47:04.260,0:47:07.230
asks you about it when you’re adult are
0:47:05.789,0:47:09.240
you totally gloss over it you’re like
0:47:07.230,0:47:13.289
yeah man it was a messed up thing and
0:47:09.240,0:47:17.760
you know my dad was totally absent or
0:47:13.289,0:47:21.000
angry and he hit me or my uncle touched
0:47:17.760,0:47:23.220
me wrong it there’s all these different
0:47:21.000,0:47:25.650
things that happen to us but that we
0:47:23.220,0:47:27.690
don’t really incorporate we don’t we
0:47:25.650,0:47:29.549
don’t actually integrate them into our
0:47:27.690,0:47:31.770
personality we push them away and we
0:47:29.549,0:47:33.750
lock them into a deep dark closet
0:47:31.770,0:47:35.609
somewhere and we use all kinds of
0:47:33.750,0:47:37.910
defense mechanisms in order to avoid
0:47:35.609,0:47:42.270
talking about these things whether it’s
0:47:37.910,0:47:44.910
self-deprecating humor or it is a simple
0:47:42.270,0:47:47.849
avoidance there are so many different
0:47:44.910,0:47:50.549
tactics that we use to try to erase
0:47:47.849,0:47:53.069
these things out of our history but the
0:47:50.549,0:47:55.170
only way to really truly reconcile these
0:47:53.069,0:47:59.220
things and reintegrate them into the
0:47:55.170,0:48:01.829
whole of your being is to truly sit
0:47:59.220,0:48:04.650
there and delve into them experience
0:48:01.829,0:48:08.220
them fully and then just like the rain
0:48:04.650,0:48:11.430
clouds come and go so will these
0:48:08.220,0:48:15.599
memories and so will these traumas so
0:48:11.430,0:48:18.809
the the clouds may come and obscure the
0:48:15.599,0:48:20.400
Sun for a brief moment but you know that
0:48:18.809,0:48:24.900
eventually the clouds will go away and
0:48:20.400,0:48:26.549
the Sun will shine again I’m sorry dude
0:48:24.900,0:48:30.000
sorry too bumpy there go ahead
0:48:26.549,0:48:33.180
no but another thing I would like to
0:48:30.000,0:48:36.720
tell the people who have never been to
0:48:33.180,0:48:38.250
combat listen I have when I first got
0:48:36.720,0:48:40.710
out of the military I had a very common
0:48:38.250,0:48:42.750
prejudice that is present in a lot of
0:48:40.710,0:48:44.369
infantryman I mean our job is a kick
0:48:42.750,0:48:48.650
down doors blow stuff up and kill people
0:48:44.369,0:48:54.870
straight up this is like trauma 101 and
0:48:48.650,0:48:56.760
I started realizing I got out of the sir
0:48:54.870,0:48:59.820
and I was really mad at the people who
0:48:56.760,0:49:02.250
claim to have PTSD but never really did
0:48:59.820,0:49:05.400
any of the stuff that I did and I had a
0:49:02.250,0:49:07.530
prejudice against them but gradually in
0:49:05.400,0:49:09.150
the process of my advocacy I would sit
0:49:07.530,0:49:11.820
down with some of these people and I
0:49:09.150,0:49:14.820
would say all right man like what what
0:49:11.820,0:49:17.250
really happened to you and they would
0:49:14.820,0:49:19.140
say things like listen nothing I didn’t
0:49:17.250,0:49:22.110
really do anything like you did I can’t
0:49:19.140,0:49:24.240
even imagine what it’s like being you
0:49:22.110,0:49:25.740
let me tell you what happened to me
0:49:24.240,0:49:28.770
and then they would tell me this story
0:49:25.740,0:49:30.660
and half the time my job would hit the
0:49:28.770,0:49:33.960
floor and I would come out of that
0:49:30.660,0:49:36.990
conversation thinking to myself how the
0:49:33.960,0:49:41.010
heck did you deal with that I have no
0:49:36.990,0:49:43.020
experience in being able to try to pull
0:49:41.010,0:49:45.540
myself together after an experience like
0:49:43.020,0:49:48.600
that some of these are horrific horrific
0:49:45.540,0:49:51.620
trauma it could be being kidnapped and
0:49:48.600,0:49:58.440
systematically tortured it could be a
0:49:51.620,0:50:01.650
ace a rape or a number of rapes over a
0:49:58.440,0:50:03.780
long period of time this betrayal by
0:50:01.650,0:50:06.540
authority figures and people that you’re
0:50:03.780,0:50:08.400
supposed to trust I have no idea how
0:50:06.540,0:50:11.820
some of these people pull themselves
0:50:08.400,0:50:13.800
together after this and so I still have
0:50:11.820,0:50:15.690
to tell people yeah you may not have
0:50:13.800,0:50:19.320
kicked down some doors and blowing stuff
0:50:15.690,0:50:21.630
up and killed people but your trauma is
0:50:19.320,0:50:24.450
just as important as mine is and don’t
0:50:21.630,0:50:28.620
ever ever ever let anyone tell you
0:50:24.450,0:50:30.180
anything different yeah for sure
0:50:28.620,0:50:33.150
Matt there’s there’s a question that I
0:50:30.180,0:50:37.080
really really like and it’s from cosmos
0:50:33.150,0:50:39.900
of compassion and they asked if one has
0:50:37.080,0:50:42.360
a rough mental history psychotic breaks
0:50:39.900,0:50:45.180
is there ever ever a chance for such
0:50:42.360,0:50:46.290
people to use plant medicine having such
0:50:45.180,0:50:49.820
a bad history
0:50:46.290,0:50:53.190
will I ever be approved plant medicine
0:50:49.820,0:50:56.790
if you have genuine psychosis in your
0:50:53.190,0:50:58.230
background like psychotic breaks I think
0:50:56.790,0:51:01.410
that the chances that you would
0:50:58.230,0:51:03.210
experience a a psychotic break under the
0:51:01.410,0:51:05.040
influence of some of these substances
0:51:03.210,0:51:08.460
might be slightly higher
0:51:05.040,0:51:10.770
so definitely proceed with caution
0:51:08.460,0:51:14.160
I think that there are a lot of people
0:51:10.770,0:51:16.349
who advise those with histories with
0:51:14.160,0:51:19.020
psychosis to never engage in any of
0:51:16.349,0:51:22.200
these substances but personally I have
0:51:19.020,0:51:24.930
had a psychotic break I there was a
0:51:22.200,0:51:28.500
period of time where I didn’t sleep for
0:51:24.930,0:51:31.589
over a week in Fort Campbell Kentucky
0:51:28.500,0:51:33.119
and I was imagining Taliban outside my
0:51:31.589,0:51:36.390
window flitting around in the shadows
0:51:33.119,0:51:39.210
and I would routinely go and clear my
0:51:36.390,0:51:41.910
house with a firearm and then clear the
0:51:39.210,0:51:45.660
outside of my house with that same
0:51:41.910,0:51:47.430
firearm and I was I was not right in the
0:51:45.660,0:51:50.609
head I was imagining things
0:51:47.430,0:51:54.240
I was I was legitimate
0:51:50.609,0:51:58.290
I think psychotic I it felt like I was
0:51:54.240,0:52:00.119
going crazy so the fact that I have been
0:51:58.290,0:52:01.170
able to at least come to a different
0:52:00.119,0:52:04.290
portion of my life
0:52:01.170,0:52:07.650
all of those incidences are way far in
0:52:04.290,0:52:10.470
the past I have been able to use these
0:52:07.650,0:52:13.250
medicines to help fix myself so that
0:52:10.470,0:52:16.589
that kind of thing never happens again I
0:52:13.250,0:52:18.900
think it depends on the person really
0:52:16.589,0:52:20.760
and you really have to proceed with
0:52:18.900,0:52:24.330
caution if you are prone to psychotic
0:52:20.760,0:52:26.790
breaks and there are no substances
0:52:24.330,0:52:30.170
involved like let’s say you turned 18
0:52:26.790,0:52:32.310
and you just had a schizophrenic attack
0:52:30.170,0:52:33.900
and you weren’t on any sort of
0:52:32.310,0:52:39.359
medications or drugs or anything like
0:52:33.900,0:52:40.950
that you are at risk for being for
0:52:39.359,0:52:42.990
undergoing a psychotic rape while
0:52:40.950,0:52:47.849
underneath the influence of these
0:52:42.990,0:52:50.820
substances but if you had some kind of
0:52:47.849,0:52:53.010
incident in your past in which you may
0:52:50.820,0:52:54.960
have imagined things or heard voices or
0:52:53.010,0:52:58.080
something like that especially it under
0:52:54.960,0:53:00.089
the influence of medication then if you
0:52:58.080,0:53:01.260
eliminate the medication then more than
0:53:00.089,0:53:03.900
likely you’re going to be able to
0:53:01.260,0:53:05.820
eliminate the psychotic symptoms and you
0:53:03.900,0:53:08.240
can then re-engage with some of these
0:53:05.820,0:53:11.310
tryptamine substances in a safe manner
0:53:08.240,0:53:13.020
yeah I mean I I like that answer and in
0:53:11.310,0:53:16.290
a proceed with caution I think is that
0:53:13.020,0:53:18.420
the general rule and you know we we are
0:53:16.290,0:53:22.230
not medical professionals and we’re not
0:53:18.420,0:53:24.810
pretending to be so you know constitutes
0:53:22.230,0:53:26.609
medical advice here so this is for
0:53:24.810,0:53:29.250
entertainment purposes only and your
0:53:26.609,0:53:31.590
information so please you know proceed
0:53:29.250,0:53:33.660
with caution and make sure that you know
0:53:31.590,0:53:36.630
you’re making wise choices and decisions
0:53:33.660,0:53:40.590
with your mental health and and what you
0:53:36.630,0:53:41.970
decide to do with with your body you
0:53:40.590,0:53:44.850
know Matt I I think one of the most
0:53:41.970,0:53:47.670
important things also is to have someone
0:53:44.850,0:53:50.400
around that you trust that can monitor
0:53:47.670,0:53:52.200
you for these kinds of symptoms so if
0:53:50.400,0:53:54.150
you are undergoing a psychedelic
0:53:52.200,0:53:56.400
experience having someone that you know
0:53:54.150,0:53:58.890
love and trust that is close to you that
0:53:56.400,0:54:01.260
can help you through these things and
0:53:58.890,0:54:04.290
then also tell you if you’re starting to
0:54:01.260,0:54:08.070
slip and having them available is
0:54:04.290,0:54:10.230
extremely important yeah yeah and you
0:54:08.070,0:54:12.420
know if these compounds weren’t illegal
0:54:10.230,0:54:14.790
people wouldn’t you know be trying to
0:54:12.420,0:54:17.010
order them on the internet and cooking
0:54:14.790,0:54:18.240
them in their kitchens and then you know
0:54:17.010,0:54:19.920
maybe jumping out of windows or
0:54:18.240,0:54:23.940
something because they’re you know like
0:54:19.920,0:54:25.440
they’re not guided by a shaman or you
0:54:23.940,0:54:27.630
know someone trained to do this do not
0:54:25.440,0:54:30.780
do this by yourself you know I think
0:54:27.630,0:54:33.000
people ask me you know they they they
0:54:30.780,0:54:34.859
think you know it’s something that they
0:54:33.000,0:54:36.840
can do just sitting alone in their
0:54:34.859,0:54:39.030
living room I do not recommend this
0:54:36.840,0:54:41.730
whatsoever do not order it on the
0:54:39.030,0:54:44.520
internet go to someone that is trained
0:54:41.730,0:54:48.060
in guiding you through a session because
0:54:44.520,0:54:50.460
there there is an an integration period
0:54:48.060,0:54:53.340
that that you need you need to be able
0:54:50.460,0:54:57.180
to talk about your experience is so
0:54:53.340,0:54:58.500
important a friend of mine tried to cook
0:54:57.180,0:55:01.530
it in his kitchen and he was like
0:54:58.500,0:55:04.650
burning incense like drawing like war
0:55:01.530,0:55:06.480
paint on his body he it was not it was
0:55:04.650,0:55:10.800
not a healthy thing for him to go
0:55:06.480,0:55:13.020
through that yeah I think um the vast
0:55:10.800,0:55:17.220
majority of people could benefit from
0:55:13.020,0:55:20.490
having either a trip sitter or a trusted
0:55:17.220,0:55:22.859
friend together or both honestly I think
0:55:20.490,0:55:25.910
that these things can work in concert
0:55:22.859,0:55:28.440
and provide layers of protection for you
0:55:25.910,0:55:31.260
there’s another thing that you really
0:55:28.440,0:55:32.670
need to do when undergoing any sort of
0:55:31.260,0:55:34.740
psychedelic experience to sort of
0:55:32.670,0:55:36.240
develop a spiritual practice of your own
0:55:34.740,0:55:38.520
it doesn’t need to be
0:55:36.240,0:55:40.740
anything from any major religion it can
0:55:38.520,0:55:42.480
just be stuff that you pull from several
0:55:40.740,0:55:44.970
different religions things that resonate
0:55:42.480,0:55:47.010
with you things that make sense and they
0:55:44.970,0:55:50.940
make you feel good and they ground you
0:55:47.010,0:55:55.680
so having this sort of ritualized
0:55:50.940,0:55:59.040
approach to entheogenic exploration can
0:55:55.680,0:56:03.300
be extremely valuable but I also want to
0:55:59.040,0:56:07.830
say that there is so much focus these
0:56:03.300,0:56:11.790
days on integration and having a proper
0:56:07.830,0:56:14.070
shaman and all this stuff and you know
0:56:11.790,0:56:15.990
believe it or not all of the best
0:56:14.070,0:56:20.430
shamans that I have ever come across
0:56:15.990,0:56:26.600
have said I don’t do anything the
0:56:20.430,0:56:28.920
medicine does it in concert with you and
0:56:26.600,0:56:31.070
actually they’re just providing the safe
0:56:28.920,0:56:34.440
space they’re just they’re just simply
0:56:31.070,0:56:39.030
containing the area and letting whatever
0:56:34.440,0:56:42.150
comes out come out and I think that
0:56:39.030,0:56:46.220
there is intrinsic value to these
0:56:42.150,0:56:49.830
substances whether it’s ayahuasca or
0:56:46.220,0:56:54.770
even just plain DNT or v methoxy DMT
0:56:49.830,0:56:55.920
toad Bufo mescaline with a San Pedro and
0:56:54.770,0:56:58.470
peyote
0:56:55.920,0:57:01.200
I think there’s intrinsic value to
0:56:58.470,0:57:03.210
mushrooms and psilocybin I think there’s
0:57:01.200,0:57:05.820
intrinsic value to all kinds of
0:57:03.210,0:57:08.940
different plant medicines you can do
0:57:05.820,0:57:13.400
these things yes alone but those things
0:57:08.940,0:57:18.780
are for the advanced practitioner only
0:57:13.400,0:57:20.760
very very important I think that the
0:57:18.780,0:57:23.280
vast majority of people could benefit
0:57:20.760,0:57:25.740
from using some kind of support system
0:57:23.280,0:57:28.710
whether it’s a shaman and a trusted
0:57:25.740,0:57:30.690
friend or a shaman a trusted friend a
0:57:28.710,0:57:33.000
psychotherapist to talk about all of
0:57:30.690,0:57:34.860
your experiences with afterwards because
0:57:33.000,0:57:37.110
you’ve got to unpack everything you know
0:57:34.860,0:57:39.060
your shaman is gonna be there or your
0:57:37.110,0:57:40.860
your facilitator is gonna be there
0:57:39.060,0:57:42.450
through the experience and they’re gonna
0:57:40.860,0:57:44.760
let you talk about it a little bit
0:57:42.450,0:57:48.120
afterwards but really you’re gonna
0:57:44.760,0:57:50.099
really start unpacking everything that
0:57:48.120,0:57:54.150
just happened to you over the MA
0:57:50.099,0:57:58.019
and years after your experience not in
0:57:54.150,0:58:00.599
the 24 hours afterwards so it will
0:57:58.019,0:58:04.259
continue to develop layers of meaning as
0:58:00.599,0:58:06.029
you go on and and you experience more of
0:58:04.259,0:58:08.729
life you’ll start to realize how
0:58:06.029,0:58:11.640
different things that you learned are
0:58:08.729,0:58:14.970
more applicable to each individual
0:58:11.640,0:58:16.559
situation indeed indeed and you know I I
0:58:14.970,0:58:19.410
think I’ve heard you know something like
0:58:16.559,0:58:21.720
it’s years of therapy in one sitting one
0:58:19.410,0:58:23.609
session and I would agree with that so
0:58:21.720,0:58:28.109
you know I think there’s a there’s a lot
0:58:23.609,0:58:31.109
to unpack there Nomad I think we’re out
0:58:28.109,0:58:32.999
of time man where can people find you
0:58:31.109,0:58:35.819
know you your work where can people find
0:58:32.999,0:58:37.769
from shock to all tell us how we can get
0:58:35.819,0:58:43.579
there and and watch the documentary
0:58:37.769,0:58:46.380
please you can find a link to all of the
0:58:43.579,0:58:51.539
ancillary materials for from shock to
0:58:46.380,0:58:55.440
odd at from shock to a calm and you can
0:58:51.539,0:58:59.640
actually rent the movie itself from
0:58:55.440,0:59:02.670
Amazon Prime from Google Play and I
0:58:59.640,0:59:06.809
think you can also do it from iTunes so
0:59:02.670,0:59:09.930
you can actually watch the full hour and
0:59:06.809,0:59:14.519
a half two hour movie if you’d like for
0:59:09.930,0:59:17.549
a nominal fee and you can find me at
0:59:14.519,0:59:21.539
least online I’ve actually divorced
0:59:17.549,0:59:23.640
myself from Facebook recently but I I
0:59:21.539,0:59:25.380
still run the organization called
0:59:23.640,0:59:27.630
veterans for natural rights and it’s
0:59:25.380,0:59:29.249
it’s found on Facebook it’s found on
0:59:27.630,0:59:33.210
Instagram it’s found on a bunch of
0:59:29.249,0:59:38.940
different platforms you can follow me
0:59:33.210,0:59:41.309
and my activities there you can also go
0:59:38.940,0:59:46.789
to the website veterans for natural
0:59:41.309,0:59:50.249
rights dot org and there you’ll find
0:59:46.789,0:59:52.380
trailers for the 16:20 series which is
0:59:50.249,0:59:54.900
more about cannabis and how it helps
0:59:52.380,0:59:57.839
pull us out of the pharmaceutical health
0:59:54.900,1:00:01.079
and also you’ll find links to from
0:59:57.839,1:00:03.930
Choctaw trailers there and and soldiers
1:00:01.079,1:00:07.200
of the vine which is a full hour and
1:00:03.930,1:00:11.549
minute movie about ayahuasca as healing
1:00:07.200,1:00:14.369
for PTSD yeah Wow Matt you know I really
1:00:11.549,1:00:16.109
want to thank you for your service in on
1:00:14.369,1:00:17.130
all levels I mean there’s it’s so
1:00:16.109,1:00:20.549
important the work that you’re doing
1:00:17.130,1:00:23.099
here guys that’s gonna do it for us I
1:00:20.549,1:00:25.380
mean what a show what an amazing you
1:00:23.099,1:00:26.849
know thing to learn about ayahuasca and
1:00:25.380,1:00:29.130
plant medicine is something very close
1:00:26.849,1:00:31.740
to my heart and I truly believe if
1:00:29.130,1:00:33.529
there’s anything that’s going to turn
1:00:31.740,1:00:37.079
things around here on the planet
1:00:33.529,1:00:38.970
probably gonna be plant medicine so I
1:00:37.079,1:00:43.230
hope you guys enjoyed this in this
1:00:38.970,1:00:46.470
broadcast we will be back next week with
1:00:43.230,1:00:50.339
yet another show if you are subscribed
1:00:46.470,1:00:53.460
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1:00:53.460,1:00:58.950
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1:00:58.950,1:01:03.049
sure you share this broadcast with your
1:01:00.510,1:01:05.339
friends family people you care about
1:01:03.049,1:01:08.930
thank you so much for listening we will
1:01:05.339,1:01:08.930
be back next week
1:01:35.410,1:01:43.370
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