Transcript for Tucker Max – Book in a Box

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up guys welcome to another episode of

the human experience this is your host

Xavier katana in this episode we

featured mr. Tucker max a truly

interesting figure we really just dough

through what it means to be an

entrepreneur we talk about mentorship

and how to go about finding a mentor

hugely interesting episode make sure

that you grab a copy of Tucker’s book in

a box method find us on Facebook Twitter

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is without much further ado mr. Tucker

max thank you guys so much for listening

the human experience is diving into the

book in a box method with our guest

tucker max Tucker welcome to HX p Thank

You Man thanks Rodney so Tucker I mean

you you I’m just gonna dive in here man

you are such a polarized figure and then

there’s people who either like you or

just don’t like you putting it lightly I

mean how do you how do you deal with

criticism and you know based on your

your early successes and who you are now

how do you deal with that that criticism

that you get from people it’s not

something I worry about you know I mean

I i doubt i don’t know any other way to

put it it’s it’s kind of funny you ask

this because I’m I’m actually giving a

speech about this and like a huge

conference in a month about how to have

the freedom to say what whatever you

want right whatever you feel and and I’m

actually having the it’s one of those

things but you know we’re like some if

you’re really good at something and you

you’re so good you’ve never kind of

really had to practice or focus on it

you actually have to get help to

deconstruct how you do it versus if

you’re bad at something and you have to

teach yourself how to do it then you

really kind of know exactly how you

learned this is one of those things that

I’m really good at and I’m not exactly

sure why or what I’m doing differently

than other people it’s a super normal

question I get this all the time how do

you deal with this and I’m always

confused that like my response is always

I don’t understand what there is to deal

with you know like at least up all I’ve

been able to kind of construct and pull

apart so far is that um the thing that I

do really well that I think a lot of

shape this is what it is I think a lot

of people mess up is a lot of people I

only care about what specific people who

are close to me and meaningful to me

sink right like a lot of people think oh

you just don’t care what anyone thinks

that’s nonsense that you

be a human a fully functioning

emotionally connected human and not care

what anyone thinks the only way to not

care what anyone at all thinks is to

either be a robot or so see about I care

what people think the only I think the

main difference between me and most

people is that I only focus on the

people that I actually care about and I

don’t have like a vague notion in my

head of like Oh what do people in cold

think you know like you’re never gonna

hear me say well what will people say

what do you mean what people who what

are they gonna say about what you know

my step mother used to always say that

what are people gonna say and I’ll

always look at her and say who and she’d

say well people what people tell me

exactly who you’re talking about and

then I can tell you what they’re gonna

say and whether I will care or not based

on the person yeah you know I mean I

mean there must be a sense of freedom

for you since it doesn’t really bother

you that people are criticizing you or

hating on you or whatever it may be I

mean that that must be incredibly

freeing sort of so yes no yes it’s very

freeing that I don’t have a vague notion

my head of people and I and I like I’m

not controlled by like some general

notion but at the same time I’m not you

know if if my wife doesn’t like

something i do or whatever that impacts

me deeply you know so it’s not i go

through the same range of emotions and

have the same cares and fears that

everyone does i think the key is that I

just restrict the input to only the

people that actually matter to me in my

life you know at what point did you

shift from these books that you’re

writing about your book mate was what

seemed like a really interesting read on

how to instruct people on finding

relationships that serve them in win-win

situations right so how have you evolved

from I hope they serve beer in hell to

book in a box well the first thing

actually I want to say is that I’ve

always been about relationships that

serves both people like even when I was

just drinking and hooking up it’s not

like I was going after girls who were

looking for husbands she felt I mean

that would be a huge awful waste of time

why would I do that the only real

difference between who I was in my 20s

and mate is that I focused a lot more I

focus a lot of that book on sort of how

do the fundamentals of how any guy can

sort of build the attributes they need

to get the relationship they want right

that’s kind of the real difference for

me personally the transition I went

through was it was mostly about I think

my might be a little bit different than

most people like I didn’t need help

meeting women I didn’t need help with

any stuff like that I needed help I

needed help connecting to myself and I

needed help growing in the ways that I

wanted to grow but I didn’t know how to

grow if that makes sense so for me

there’s a lot of ways to kind of to grow

and a lot of them work for you know

differently for different people the the

kind of package of things that worked

really well for me were a combination of

psychoanalysis and then meditation the

combination of those two things which

are kind of diametrically opposite ways

of approaching the exact same problem

really helped me kind of connect to

myself and face a lot of issues that I

hadn’t been facing that we’re kind of

driving some underlying behaviors that I

just didn’t want anymore that’s kind of

the high level and I happy to dive into

details if you want yeah we can we can

go further into the interview and then

we can see where it leads I actually

want to get into there was something

there was something that you said in an

interview that i was listening to for

the research for the show regarding

success that i found incredibly

impactful and powerful you said you said

that early in your early stages when you

were when you were moving from your

first book to Hollywood and creating

this this Hollywood career did you make

a mistake there that’s what I got from

what you were saying was that you should

have if i’m quoting you correctly

should have built the foundations of

what you were where you were successful

instead of jumping into something where

it was completely new for you yeah yeah

I made so many mistakes in in my first

sort of if you call like the sort of

frat tire that you know the drinking

hook up stories that that was my first

career ah so many mistakes I made almost

every mistake you can make um like III

don’t know how much I made in that

ten-year career let’s just call it

whatever five or six million I should

have made ten times that that’s how many

mistakes I made and and not that money

is the only thing that matters i’m just

using money as a proxy for sort of the

not just the value create but the value

you capture i created way less than i

captured by less than I should have and

the reason is because one of the big

reasons is as soon as I had any success

with writing my immediate sort of

instinct was oh let’s go do TV and

movies right it’s sort of like um I max

I I see this all the time now and I

understand the motivation but you’ll see

someone succeed with something and like

oh yeah that like that’s that’s what I

want to do so I can go do something else

I’m passionate about or I’m good at and

I’m just like what are you doing but I

made the same mistake man like I wrote

in a really good book that really

captured a certain voice and a certain

sort of perspective at a certain moment

in time and sort of all art is pretty

much all art is um uh it’s it’s time

contextual you know I mean there’s

something Michelangelo’s David you know

whatever which are sort of timeless but

that’s very rare to have timeless art

the vast majority is is contextual and

and I hit something I hit it right but

instead of writing all of my books right

when I was sort of in when I was

personally living those stories and the

time was right society is culturally I

kind of tried to move away from that

immediately to something else something

bigger you know and what I what I didn’t

understand is that the bigger things are

always almost always going to be there

what’s not going to be there is is sort

of the you only have a certain time to

capture certain things in your life you

know you can only be 16 when you’re 16

you’d only be 26 when you’re 26 you know

that leads I mean leads me back to that

that initial question of you know where

where are you now so how have you gained

from those those failures like what have

you what have you really truly learned

from I mean what how would you do it

differently now versus back then if you

could go back and tell yourself you know

okay look this is this is how i should

have transitioned what would you have

done differently I mean a lot of it’s

hard for me to answer that question

because even I could lay out exactly

what I should have done the problem is

when i was at age I never would have

done it no like I since I’m 40 now 40

year old Tucker could literally get into

a time capsule and go back and tell 29

year old 30 year old Tucker that he

needs to do XY and Z and 29 year old

talk over a argued with him cuz

he was an idiot I really would have and

so uh I mean the big thing I would have

done is as soon as i finish i hope they

serve beer in hell I would have written

all the sequels that I knew were there

and I had in my head and it took me like

four years to actually get to them and

by then I was such a different person

the book was technically better my

second and third books are technically

much better than my first but they don’t

have that that energy and that joy to be

that my first one had its kind of

missing that that energy because I just

wasn’t in that headspace anymore and so

I like I had great art idol I had a

certain amount of great art in me and I

got a lot less out of me than I could

have because I was so focused on I was

so focused on the prizes and the rewards

that I didn’t hit the target you know

there’s the old Zen koan if you want the

reward focus on the target and you’ll

hit it and get the reward but if you

focus on the reward you’ll miss the

target and get nothing you know it seems

like you’ve almost become this sort of

marketing genius i mean like you you

nailed to you’ve had to at least two

bestsellers right three number one there

yes sir I don’t be silly short there um

but okay so three number one bestsellers

in regards to the media space and

working with with people and and your

the content that you create what are you

doing differently that you think people

are drawn to so I I think what I do it’s

sort of what I’m giving what I talk

about the very beginning what I’m giving

my speech on if I have one real skill

that a lot of other people don’t have

it’s that I’m truly willing I’m willing

to be honest in a way that most people

aren’t and I don’t want to say truthful

because then it sounds like I have some

monopoly on truth which obviously i

don’t but everyone can have them and I

mean no one knows what do we what do we

r any of us really know about objective

in quotes truth nothing but all of us

know what we think and feel and I have

always been willing to say that I have

always been willing to come out and say

in face the hard truths whether about

myself or other people or whatever and

that’s why my writing did so well if you

go read I hope they serve beer and how

my first book no one is going to hold

that book up as some technical master

piece of writing but it sold two million

copies today just that one single book

because it’s so honest and it’s so raw

and it’s so authentic when you read it

you feel if in any way shape or form it

relates to any experiences you’ve had

you connect with it deeply you know and

obviously not everyone does because not

everyone acts like a drunken fool in

their 20s and throws up on themselves

whatever but a lot of people do and

those people really connect it with that

and so that’s really what art is man all

art is about it’s about helping people

connect to themselves and the only way

to do that is to reflect who they really

are back on themselves and that’s what I

did for a certain group of people yeah

yeah I really connect with that I mean I

really just want to move forward with

this and kind of dig into this

look where you’re now you know you’ve

done the best sellers and now you’re

you’re kind of teaching people how to

write their own book yeah more than more

than teaching and then also helping them

do it too our company is more of a

service company than an information

company but it’s a little bit of both

yes so so my company’s help book in a

box basically it’s kind of funny man the

company was born out of my own arrogance

except the differences ten years ago I

would have been too arrogant to even see

my arrogance I think maybe that’s that’s

the real change in me is that now at

least I’m I’m aware enough to see my own

hubris and arrogance and how it’s

holding me back it’s not gone I’m just

seeing it a little bit more so what

happened was I was at an entrepreneur

dinner and this woman melissa gonzalez

came up to me and she said look I’ve had

this book in my head for a decade people

would ask me to write it for a decade

but I have a family and a business she’s

like this ball or entrepreneur and she’s

like I don’t have time I cannot sit at a

keyboard for a year and and write it and

navigate the publishing process so but

she’s like but I need this out of me

people want it I wanted out of me how

can I do this how can I get this idea

out of my head and into a book without

having to go through the the process and

I kind of looked at her I’m like are you

asking me how to write without writing

and she’s like yeah I kind of am and so

then of course I make fun of her right

and I like you can’t write without

writing its little right is literally in

the word etc etc and she wolves rising

me and she says Tucker are you an

entrepreneur and I’m like yeah of course

you know I’d like to think so she’s like

well I’m not sure because entrepreneurs

I’m an entrepreneur and entrepreneurs

help people solve problems you’re not

helping me solve anything you’re just

lecturing me about hard work that’s like

okay hold on a minute because she froze

up she was totally right it was a gut

punch call out and she was a hundred

percent right I was just being an

elitist writer snob prick and so of

course I became obsessed with this idea

how do I get how do i get an idea out of

her head and into a book without her

touching a keyboard and and it all came

to me one day duh Socrates never wrote a

word down

jesus never wrote a word down Buddha

never wrote a word down but we all read

their books that you know they’re the

most important books in Western culture

how did they get into books scribes

someone else wrote down their words well

I was like well Jesus can do it why not

Melissa and so I wrote down every single

step that can you know because I know

how to structure a book how to

everything about books I know so I wrote

down every single thing I do when I go

from idea to finish book and instead of

telling Melissa what to do I just got on

the phone with her every time I needed

her for her book right and because I

didn’t know anything about her subject

it’s pop-up retail right and she didn’t

want a ghost writer and I wasn’t in the

business to be a ghostwriter I had no

business no desire to learn what she was

talking about I just wanted her ideas in

a book in her voice so every time I

needed her i would get on the phone I

would interview her until I feel like I

got everything out of her head then um

long long story short we ended up with

this amazing book and from that as a can

on my co-founder we developed a process

to a structured interview process that

clarifies the idea you know structures

the the content outlines it does

interviews to get everything out of

their head we recorded we transcribe it

and we edit it into book pros Wow yeah

and it’s it’s done amazing well the

company is about two years old we’ve

done about 300 books a couple

bestsellers some some really amazing

books it’s been pretty cool man we’ve

really helped a lot of people get their

ideas and the books and some of those

books are amazing yeah I love it I think

it’s a fascinating idea you fired

yourself as a CEO though what do you

just feel like you you could you didn’t

want to be in that position or how did

that that go about quite frankly I

wasn’t doing a good job so so so it’s

kind of funny man it’s like all right so

I reckon I was arrogant and elitist with

Melissa she calls me out and and the I

recognize it and then kind of I get

humble and I go back to sort of you know

first principles and beginner’s mind and

and I look at the book process again and

this amazing idea comes out of it that

works right and so you know for the

first six months a year the company was

doing me we’re growing so fast we’re

doing it like it seemed like everything

just came to us without even having to

do anything because there was a huge

demand for this and we really did kind

of come up with a process that not only

solved that problem but and met that

demand but was genuinely like unique and

useful and then it’s like I kind of got

back in the same problem like it’s one

of those things you know sometimes you

get you’re good at something at the

beginning so you think well I’m just

awesome you know and so I was like oh

I’m amazing lunch preneur look at this

company I created look how good I am at

all these things well it turns out i had

one in sight and that was it and i

actually didn’t know how to run and

scale a company not a mature company

what I was good at was working solving

one problem that but scaling a business

and creating a business are totally

different skills and the the months 12

through 18 the company started we’re

still growing but it’s like I could feel

I could feel it coming apart at the

seams you know and and so we basically

long story short had to go find someone

he was a client of ours he was doing a

book with us and um he was amazed he

built a hundred-million-dollar software

company he was like employee number five

there and he became the CEO or president

scaled it all the way up and and he done

something else similar for wachovia and

he’s like look you guys had this

incredible company in this incredible

process but you’re just all screwed up

all over the place all the details and

I’m like I know and why don’t you like

help me and I was like kind he was kind

of coaching me and it was like it was

clear I couldn’t even learn fast enough

to keep up with the company so I kind of

had to come to a decision point what’s

more important me and my ego and my

sense of self or the company and this

success in its mission and I it was it

was hard for me at first man because

it’s hard to admit that you’re not good

at something you’re not who you think

you are or whatever but eventually I

just I face the music and he came home I


myself a CEO and brought him on board

and now we’re you know we’re back to

growing crazy you know amounts and doing

amazing because I have found someone

better than me to do the job that the

company needed yeah that I’m sure it

must have been hugely difficult i mean

it i think there’s there’s an old saying

if you’re if you’re not intelligent

surround yourself by intelligent people

it looks like that’s what you’re doing

when you look at someone who is in the

entrepreneurial space and there’s and

they’re starting out I mean what is what

is something that that you see that is a

failure that they’re making something

something common that that you that you

notice with with people that they’re

just failing at they could be doing

better yeah so that it’s a great

question it’s a subset of the problem

but my problem the exact problem i just

described so many entrepreneurs forget

that being an entrepreneur is not about

you it’s about the the problem that

you’re solving for people like here’s

the thing that I think people forget

about with all an economy is is a way to

allocate resources right if I have money

and someone else has an orange and I’m

hungry then we trade and we’re both

better off you know like they’ve solved

my problem I solved Aires that’s all an

economy is and in firms and companies

and people and workers everything all of

it is coordinating effort to solve

problems that people have to create on

you at being on but so many people who

become an entrepreneur do it because

they think it’s an identity or a

lifestyle oh I can sit on a beach and I

can take selfies and I can look cool or

or I can tell people at cocktail parties

that i started i would start up or

whatever I mean that stuff is perfectly

fine but it’ll it’s only a meaningful if

you’re doing it because you actually are

solving real problems that real people

have that they’re willing to pay for if

you’re not doing that you I don’t even

mean this is a moral statement you’re

not gonna have a company you know

there’s nothing for you to sell there’s

nowhere for it to go

you’ve got to at your core realize the

only point of business is either solving

someone’s problem or giving them

something they want but they don’t have

which are not the exact same thing

solving a problem is like like booking a

box is solving a problem for people like

they want they want to turn their ideas

into a book but but it’s too hard the

normal method that’s solving a very

clear problem the iPhone the iPhone did

now actually solve a problem no one

thought in 2004 that they needed an

iphone but now in 2016 like who can live

without an iphone right what the iphone

did is it gave you a bunch of things

that you wanted but didn’t have but

they’re similar enough though you can

think of them both as creating value if

you are not creating meaningful

authentic value for people that they

will pay for then you don’t have a

business and you are an entrepreneur

you’re just acting it seems like

creating the key relationships is also

quite integral to just running a

business that is aiming leaning towards

success is that something that that

you’re talented at I mean how are you

developing these key relationships like

what is what is something that you’re

doing differently that maybe other

people aren’t doing so you know what’s

funny i would say yes no I would say

creating relationships is super

important for most people to succeed in

life but not everyone has to be good at

that I mean you know there’s plenty of

autistic programmers who literally can’t

talk to people but they can they can

create massive value in the world you

know so I don’t want to be here say our

relationships or everything because

there’s just evident a lot of evidence

to the contrary but at the same time I

would actually even go further than you

I would tell you that that’s the entire

meaning of life that there is nothing in

life that matters more than the

relationships you have with the people

you care about and I know for me

personally especially now that I have a

wife and kids and and that kind of stuff

it’s like you don’t even at least I

didn’t son

people might be no actually a lot of

people more mature than me I didn’t

realize before I had wife and kids what

how much I was missing out on and how

different like the world looks when you

focus on relationships first and not

yourself first but yes absolutely i

think if you if you are good at

relationships and you can kind of

leverage that you can use that I think

you are so far ahead of almost anybody

else because most people don’t think

about that even though it’s the most

important thing in life most people

don’t think that way and they don’t look

at relationships that way I think that’s

fundamentally changing now I think we’re

seeing a massive shift in in our economy

I mean dude i think i think in 20 years

at most pretty much all work is going to

be automated and i think well we’ll

probably end up having a basic income

for people and the only people who are

rich basically income will be more than

enough to satisfy material needs and

rich people are going to be the only

ones the the people that are rich will

be the ones that create additional value

who are amazing artists or entertainer

or amazing relationships they’re amazing

and connecting with other human beings

you know what I’m saying I think that’s

our economy used to be based on scarcity

but I think we’re moving to a world

where material resources are not going

to be scarce I know it sounds crazy but

it’s actually like I think I think we’re

getting super close and in that world I

think you’re absolutely right i think

you’ve nailed it that that the ability

to connect with other people and relate

to them will be one of the highest if

not the highest value there is was there

was is there has there been a specific

relationship for you that that has

changed your life outside of your

immediate family and your wife and your

kids and that’s a tough question um I my

first instinct right now is to tell you

my CEO that I hired he’s just such an

amazing dude and he’s he’s only five

years older than me so he’s not like

some old guy but um

it’s weird we have very similar we’re so

similar in so many ways but he has this

skill set that I don’t at all like and I

have a different skill set that he

doesn’t it’s like it’s sort of like if

you could combine the two of us we’d be

like the like a successful businessman

CEO creator or whatever but like he’s

the i would say him right now today for

my whole life ah man that’s a hard

question i would probably say maybe my

friend i have a friend aaron Tyler who’s

an amazing artist she’s got a book

that’s going to come out soon that I

think is going to become a massive

runaway hit she probably maybe more than

anyone hurt or my other friend Niels

Parker in terms of it impact of my life

Niels has been my kind of creative

partner for years he helped edit all my

books I he wrote the screenplay with me

based on my movie he’s done up he’s out

in Hollywood now he’s not a bunch of

screenplays and TV shows on his own

those two people I think probably more

than it anyone so there wasn’t there

wasn’t a mentor type figure in your life

where you were kind of down you never

had that now it’s one of them I mean

it’s kind of I don’t know if it this was

just instinct on your party or you did

really did your research but it’s one of

the I would say one of the both defining

aspects of who I am and one of the most

sort of sad for me aspects is that um I

knew I didn’t have really parents

growing up I I mean I wasn’t an orphan

so I don’t mean to be like that but like

my mother was a flighted center for pain

and was always gone and my dad and mom

got divorced when I was like a year or

something and so I basically spent no

time around him either so in effect I

kind of grew up alone and and I never

really either had other mentors either I

just never and it’s like kind of by the

time I that leaves kind of a hole in you

you know and

and by the time I was at the point where

I realized man I should really get a

mentor or find someone whatever I was

kind of too old you know and to both

tooled into prot proud I think I’ve

never which is the irony is man I’ve

been that guy for so many people I mean

I could name ten people a few of whom

were kind of famous I mean Ryan Holliday

has gone on do all kinds of crazy stuff

and I I mean no one’s mentored him more

than me you know and a bunch of other

people charlie hall and Jeff Waldman and

we get on the list yeah it’s sort of

like I’ve spent a lot of time giving

away what I never got but I’ve never

gone out to get that myself you know

which might be it might be one of the

reasons why you know like I kind of fail

part of the reason I got talked about

like I kind of made a lot of wrong

decisions in my first career I think I

didn’t have anyone around me who was

like being like dude like kind of an

older brother mentor uncle type who’s

like don’t do that that’s stupid but

part of the reason I didn’t honestly is

because I was too arrogant and two full

of hubris I wouldn’t listen to anyone

you know which was my fault my flaw it’s

not anyone elses I appreciate your your

openness and honesty with that question

so I want to touch on something that you

mentioned though within that answer you

you mentioned that you know you’ve

you’ve served as the sort of mentor for

all these people and how do you see how

do how did you kind of place yourself in

a position where you’re mentoring a

person like Ryan Holliday who is making

a lot of waves right now they they all

came to me it’s not like I I’m not a

shingle you know mentor for hire I mean

I think Ryan and Charlie hone both at

home is HOH in it for your listeners

both of those two have written pretty

good pieces on how to find mentors and

how to approach them and the basic gist

is very simple pic people who seem to be

at a place where you want to get who

have skills that you want to develop and

who seem to be you know kind of giving

and good people and then go work for


whatever capacity you can whether it’s

paid or unpaid and if it’s unpaid just

keep doing amazing stuff for them until

they have to hire you which is what

happened with Charlie in line both like

they just were so amazing kept doing

amazing stuff over and over it’s like

all right like these guys are are great

um that’s basically what they did you

have to turn into a conscious process if

you just hope someone comes along it’s

like it’s not going to happen you got to

go find that person and the key is don’t

if you go after really famous people

like if you go after like like I’m

friends with him if you got for Tim

Ferriss good luck everyone tries to get

Tim to mentor him you know and it’s a

huge waste of time because Tim’s not

gonna mentor anyone that’s not who he is

he’s never mentored anyone it’s just not

his style you know but there are some

people who love mentoring and some

people who don’t so find the people who

do and the ones who kind of fit with you

and meet a bunch of them and then the

ones you really connect with make a

conscious effort you know give us the

step-by-step for cuz I know anyone who’s

listening right now about what you just

said they’re gonna want to know how you

know what do i do how do I all right so

to find it to find it an attractive

mentor a little step by step so let’s

pretend i’m looking for a mentor let’s

say like I don’t know for let’s say I’m

looking for a guy like me as a mentor a

writer online marketer like smart

strategy like you know just kind of a

hot a general overall hustler let’s so

let’s say i’m 19 i’m looking for someone

like me or even someone like ryan right

okay fine so first what i do is i think

who do I want to be right like what type

of person do I want to be and so I make

a list of all the people that are like

that you know so like Tucker max Ryan

holiday bowl o Allah like like every

name and if you can’t come up with like

20 or 30 names you’re thinking way too

narrow you’re thinking about like a job

as opposed to a type of person so think

what type of person do I want to be and

who’s already there so come up with list

let’s say you come up with 20 people

okay great now of those 20 people uh


learn about them do some research right

look for who has ever had a mentee

before who’s ever talked about mentoring

before who has in sports they call it a

coaching tree you know some coaches

develop coaches like John Calipari has

dozens of guys all over the country

coaching that have coached under him

whereas like you know Mike sous-chef ski

only has like two or three right some

people have some guys have big coaching

tree some guys don’t because some guys

developed how long and some guys make it

all about them so you want to find

people with with coaching trees right

someone who’s shown a propensity in the

past to directly mentor someone then so

let’s say that narrows it down to maybe

10 of the 20 have mentees right or you

think would even consider it do your

research on those 10 even more looking

what do they like what are they not like

what are they interested in right now

write what you know what could they use

help with and so of those 10 if you can

find something you’re interested in and

something they could use help with then

either start sending them stuff they’re

interested in or start start helping

them in a way that they could use help

and don’t ask for anything say hey

listen I’ve read all your stuff I love

what you’re doing I thought you might be

interested in this and this or I thought

you maybe could use this so I just did

it right see who respond don’t say hey

will you be my mentor no one’s gonna say

yes we’ll just show them why they would

want to work with you in any degree

shape or form absolutely right so then

basically give to them without expecting

back and then of those 10 if you’re

lucky three of them will respond okay if

you’re lucky so okay three respond then

keep engaging those three keep giving to

them you keep exploring hey you know I’m

looking for XYZ do you know anyone who

needs that right do you know anyone who

would value that like right now I mean

where my company we’re looking for a ton

of of really town we’re hiring and we’re

looking for a ton of talented people but

quite honestly we’re not looking for

like hustling 21 year olds we’re looking

for people with skills

we got to go ahead and get them right

but if some kid came to me and he’s like

and he like figured out what we’re

looking for or asked me and I told him

and he went and connected me to like

we’re looking face of her chief

marketing officer right now someone with

like a real growth hacker chops not sort

of creative marketing like Ryan I do

more sort of analytical so if he went

out and found three great candidates and

connected them to us I’d be like holy

this dude is a baller and i would

start talking to him to understand him

and see maybe if either if he wanted a

job or if he wanted to work with me on

some side project I had you know why

would I do that because the kid showed

me that he can think independently that

he can get things done that he’s

self-motivated that he’s empathetic he

is all these traits already right it’s

better than any job interview in a job

interview I’m trying to guess if

someone’s going to be good this kids

already shown me that he or she are good

you know they’ve already shown me by

doing it right so so those are kind of

the steps I would do it again the

problem is you can’t just lay out

specific i can add general steps but

specific the specifics are going to

change based on the type of person

you’re going after and what you’re

looking for from them yeah yeah I mean I

think that’s gold man I don’t think

there’s anyone really clarifying the

step-by-step instructions on how to

develop a relationship with someone that

you admire and are looking to be

mentored by so I really I really

appreciate your answer on that I kind of

want to talk about your your angel

investing venture and what what happened

there so I spent for you after I kind of

retired from flat tire I spent four

years angel investing and you know I

invested in about 80 companies I’m

somewhere between a million two million

dollars and I did pretty well like I’ve

already had a couple of good exits I’m

already you know sort of in the black

and I expect two or three more major

exits so I did I did well not as well as

like Chris soccer or something that I

did very well I I ended up quitting

angel investing for two main reasons i

guess the week

one is that there’s just so many people

doing it now that there’s so many

amateurs in the space it’s really driven

up prices and it’s made it really hard

to source deals and i feei feel like

entrepreneurship is so hot and so many

people want to start a company because

it’s the it thing and most of them are

just terrible and they just should be

working for somebody else because they

don’t understand exactly what i talked

about earlier what you asked me about

what entrepreneurs need to know you need

to know that you’re in business serving

other people’s needs and creating

something the value and and I would say

maybe twenty-five percent of the deals I

was seen were people who actually

understood that was the core essence of

what they were doing like most most

others think oh I’m making a cool

product or I’m doing whatever no you’re

not it’s not cool if it doesn’t serve

anyone’s needs and that’s kind of what

so does give that was getting very

frustrating and then the other thing was

once I started booking a box it’s like

you can’t be great at two things you can

be great at one thing and at a time at

least you know there’s no one’s a

world-class pole vaulter and a

world-class novelist it just doesn’t

happen but Ted Williams was a

world-class baseball player and then a

world-class fisherman but not at the

same time and so angel investing is one

of those things if you’re not dedicated

to it you’re going to lose money because

it’s just impossible to be good at that

casually so I decided to dedicate all my

time to book in a box I admire that

you’ve in the last 10-15 years I would

be shocked if you didn’t go through all

these sort of phase shifts in your life

you know like you’ve you’ve gone from

this sort of fraternal writing this sort

of jokester stuff to actually serving

people and creating a company that that

can you know help others people that

that that don’t know where to begin

maybe and and and and launch them into

something that they’ve always wanted is

you know is is there something that you

would give to budding authors or people


are looking to become authors there a

piece of advice that you would give

someone that doesn’t know where to start

or is is trying to publish but just just

just isn’t you know isn’t it isn’t

happening for them um well I think I

would have would say you need start

asking questions why are you writing a

book what are you hoping to get from it

if you’re not able to start or finish a

book you probably don’t know the answers

to those questions um and and then I

would even go further why are you

writing a book what audience are you

trying to write for and what do you know

that’s relevant to that and interesting

to that audience if you can’t answer

those questions I would say there’s

about a hundred percent overlap with

people who cannot move forward as a

writer and people who cannot answer

those questions hmm Wow okay you know

Tucker what is what is what has it been

the biggest challenge for you like what

is what is something that you deal with

even now I’m at the point in my life

dude where I don’t have competition

anymore my only competition of myself

and I mean that are bit my companies

like that and personally I’m like that

and um it’s weird if it’s it’s a hard

having external competition is so great

because it’s so clarifying you know if

there’s an enemy then it’s it’s just

this point point me in that in the

enemy’s direction you know it’s so easy

but when the enemy is you it’s so hard

it’s so hard and I feel like uh this

maybe this has been true my whole life

but maybe I just now have understood it

fully I feel like the only enemy at this

point I have in my life is me like my

anger I still I’ve such an anger problem

sometimes and i’ll tell you you see that

super acutely when you have a kid like

you can’t be yelling at your kid

you see it in their face you know I’m

two-year-old son

like I mean it’s not like I’m screaming

and we’re hitting in there anything but

even just a little bit a tight what I

think is just like not even anger it

impacts him a lot and so like and I

don’t want that I don’t want it in any

way shape or form be like that you know

and so like I’m same with my wife sale

everything dude I mean it’s like what

you poor talk a lot earlier with

relationships I feel like every

impediment in my life to great

relationships for the most part is me

are things I bring to the table and

that’s it’s tough man it’s tough when

the enemy or things inside you and

you’ve got to turn you’ve got to really

examine yourself and face hard truths

and face painful realities um but that’s

that’s the only place left for me to

grow you know for better for worse you

know I don’t maybe it’s because I have

so many problems I don’t know I don’t

know I think that is a one of the most

honest answers that we’ve gotten on the

show I appreciate that man um so to

Tucker what is what is your next step in

what is the next thing for you do right

now man my life is a family and booking

a box business that’s it you know I am

yourself i guess i include maybe self

and family but like um next step is

famiiy I have a daughter do December

15th so obviously like family family

stuff is like me working through

whatever issues I have that that aren’t

working in the context of the family

because my my wife’s not perfect but

she’s awesome and my kid is

great and the kid coming I assume you

know healthy so she should be fine so

almost if the product family ever has

problems it’s going to be because I

don’t fix my stuff where I’m not dealing

with my stuff and then business-wise um

we have a gold mine we have an amazing

gold line on our hands and it and as

long as we just work the process every

single day we’re going to not just

create a huge company but a company

helps thousands if not hundreds of

thousands if not potentially millions of

people write their books and share their

knowledge and wisdom and that I mean you

know we might not be the ones changing

the world but those books will and if we

can you know if we can do that like

that’s there’s nothing there’s not much

bigger impact than that you know yeah

well what a profound statement man love

it Tucker where can where can people

find your work sir oh so Booker box com

it’s my company and then you know you

can find me the normal places Twitter

Facebook whatever I have a site tucker

max top me which is sort of like my

personal writing I don’t put a lot of

stuff up there anymore because I have to

work you know but I mean that’s what you

read the the piece about me firing

myself a CEO and stuff so there’s some

good stuff on there guys you have been

listening to the human experience my

guest tucker max the book is called book

in a box method make sure you go pick

that up we will see you guys next week

thank you guys so much for listening

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