Transcript for Randall Carlson – Catastrophe, Cosmic Cycles, Human Origins

welcome to the human experience podcast

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you on a chip we are the intimate

strangers thank you for listening the

human experiences in session my name is

Xavier katana

we’ve got an incredible program planned

for you guys today so sit back have a

drink and enjoy this conversation our

guest for today is mr. Randall Carlson

Randall is a master builder an

architectural designer he has over 40

years of experience as a researcher of

ancient mysteries and as a geological

Explorer by way of sacred geometry

international and the Cosmo graphic

Research Institute Randall investigates

and documents the catastrophic a tossed

rafi Laden history of the world and also

how earlier cultures were likely more

advanced than previously thought in

attempt to unlock the mysteries of the

true origins of us as a species

Randall wow what a mouthful welcome it’s

a pleasure to have you here sir welcome

to hxp

well thanks for having me yeah I’ve been

trying to get this conversation set up

I’m so glad that we were finally able to

put it together so why don’t why don’t

we kick this off with an introduction

tell us you know for the people that

don’t know tell us who you are what you

do and how you got to doing what you do

please oh well Xavier that’s a an

interesting question it’s just something

that I got interested in science you

know is at a very early age I grew up in

rural Minnesota where the effects of the

great Ice Age were everywhere about us

and so early on I just got interested in

nature the natural world I read a lot so

I was always reading things about

geology geography the weather you know

mass extinctions I was very very

interested in dinosaurs of course

there’s a lot of boys and kids in

general were back in the 50s and 60s

so one thing kind of led to another and

it was just a lifelong interest that

I’ve kept up for for many decades now

and once I kind of launched my business

in the 80s and got to where I could

actually afford to do some traveling I

have been traveling oh typically three

or four times a year to investigate

various sites of interest to me these

could be geological sites they could be

archeological sites or paleontological

sites so in a very abbreviated version

of it that’s kind of how it all came to


I majored in geology in college with a

minor in astronomy so I had those two

things kind of in my academic background

although I’ve not been a practicing

professional geologist I’ve it’s been an

avocation of mine now literally for

about 35 years so I don’t take normal

vacation sightseeing vacations I do you

might say research trips and I’ll

usually go with them several like-minded

people who are interested in the same

kind of things and we’ll go spend

anywhere from one to two weeks two and a

half weeks exploring various sites that

are interesting to me that I feel that

are important in trying to you know shed

light on this shifting paradigm that

were in the middle of right now the

realization that there’s a whole lot

more to our history than had been

previously recognized so that’s a big

part and now it’s gotten to the point

where I’m kind of I’ve accumulated

enough mass of material and information

that it seems like the next logical

thing to do is to try to share this

because I know there’s a lot of people

out there that are interested in the

same kinds of things and

perhaps in some of these areas I’ve got

a bit of a head start so I can save

people some time so yeah so I’m doing

these podcasts and this is our first one

so it’s that’s great to be here first of

many hopefully well I mean I I heard

about you through Joe show when you were

on with Graham and Graham has been on

the show a bunch of times as well and

you know I there is something about

these questions that sort of I mean for

those that of us that are seekers we’re

looking for the answers to these

questions who are we you are here is

there God I mean these are big questions

what are the origins of our species

because it seems like the the origin of

how humans came to this current point is

is very concealed it’s very hidden from

you know the purview of mainstream

history so you know I want to set the

the stage as it were let’s let’s paint a

picture for our audience and maybe maybe

we can start with what is the current

geological standing that historians have

for the human species as it as it were

now well of course geological sciences

in the midst of an a major upheaval

right now but for most of the 20th

century the dominant paradigm was one of

gradualism a very strict gradualism the

the term that has been used it’s a

mouthful it’s uniformitarianism which

basically extrapolates into the past by

looking at things that are going on

today and it was always considered to be

pseudo-scientific to begin to try to

look at forces or effects that we can’t

see going on around us today so the

uniformitarian method it is very

powerful because obviously by making

observations of processes that are

currently underway and then

extrapolating into the past we can learn

a lot however when it becomes dogmatic

then it becomes very limited because

it’s apparent now that

yeah there are things that have

transpired in Earth history that do not

have a modern analogue and so what

uniformitarian perspective gives us is

the realization that yes there have been

things that we can’t explain in terms of

modern processes so you know this all

began to shift back in 1980 was a major

turning point when three separate teams

all proposed that a major asteroid or

comet impact had been responsible for

the cretaceous-tertiary mass extinction

that killed off the dinosaurs and this

kind of began to open the door for

scientists to reconsider catastrophism

in earth history because prior to that

anybody who invoked anything that was

you know unlike modern processes was

considered to be a fringe you know

pseudoscience all of that so you had you

know what’s called the Velikovsky effect

back in the 1950s when Immanuel

Velikovsky wrote a series of books about

Earth’s cataclysmic past and he he wrote

several books that were really have

stood the test of time the main one

being earth in upheaval where he you

know in the mid-1950s there was a lot of

anomalous information and data out there

that did not fit into the uniformitarian

paradigm and this came from multiple

venues such as hard geological science

observations within nature but it also

came and this was what he was open to

was the traditions of mythology and

legends and folklore that seemed to have

this catastrophic implications to them

you know stories about the great floods

about fires from space great upheavals

in nature so what he did in the mid-50s

was he collected all of this stuff

together that was pretty much available

at that time well so far so good but

then what he did was he attempted to

explain it and interpret it and this is

where he got attacked because

he came up with a theory that you know

there are people who follow Velikovsky

today who will kind of religiously hold

to his his his theories of origin but he

came up with an astrophysics that

basically got savaged by the scientific

community because you know he theorized

that Mars and Venus were ejected from

Jupiter and came very very close to the

earth and it was these close passages of

Mars and Venus that triggered the

catastrophes the great floods and he had

discussed a pole shift in there and and

then of course the astronomers went

crazy over that idea

however while in fact they then wrote a

book called scientists confront

Velikovsky where basically the whole

book was a refutation of Velikovsky’s

astrophysics however what they didn’t

touch was his catastrophism research

that came through unscathed

nobody even attempted to refute some of

the the the evidence for great

catastrophes well fast-forward about 20

years and in the mid-70s Charles Hapgood

came out with a work called path of the

pole where he essentially kind of did a

Velikovsky approach and he collected

together all of the evidence that had

accrued in the interim that pointed to

catastrophes in earth history and then

his his attempt to explain that was

through pole shifts and he theorized

that perhaps there were triggers that

could cause the the crust of the earth

to slip over the mantle and that this

crustal slippage is what had triggered

the catastrophes and again that got

attacked in the end Hapgood sort of

pulled back on that idea interestingly

said well it definitely appears that

great catastrophes have happened in

Earth history I’m not sure if a pole

shift was the cause of it and that was

like I said I think that was 76 or 77

when he came out with that with path of

the pole and then of course a few years

later you get the the the extra

really impact hypothesis of of like I

said multiple scientific teams Walter

Alvarez was probably the most well known

they were the ones who discovered the

iridium layer at the KT or

cretaceous-tertiary boundary over in

Gubbio Italy and once they discovered

that array diem they knew that a radium

was essentially a cosmic material that

it it was a it’s a side euro file which

means that it likes iron and it binds to

iron so if the assumption was in the

early days of the earth all the iridium

that would have been at the surface of

the earth bound to iron and then as the

iron subsided into towards the the core

of the earth that took all the iridium

with it

which left the crust of the earth

deficient in iridium

however it’s known from the study of

meteorites that they are very rich in

iridium so when they found this iridium

layer right there at the the what they

call it the magic boundary layer which

is only a few inches thick and they knew

that below that the dinosaurs had

existed but up that above that there

were no more dinosaurs it was like the

end of the Mesozoic era which was the

great era of middle life so they found

this iridium layer and they said well

could this possibly be the result of

some kind of a cosmic impact so they

began to contact colleagues around the

world who subsequently began to look at

other Cretaceous tertiary boundary

outcrops and that everyone they looked

at they found this iridium layer so from

the amount of iridium that they could

now estimate had been deposited

worldwide knowing the percentage of

iridium that would be in an asteroid for

example they were able to calculate that

that it would require an asteroid about

six miles in diameter to distribute this

much iridium around the globe and then

from that they were able to determine

that well if a six mile asteroid hit the

earth what size of a crater would it

would it create so they then

extrapolated and and and estimated that

a crater of maybe somewhere a hundred to

150 miles in diameter

this is all in the early 80s okay then

we get to the early 90s and lo and

behold they discover the cheek Shalhoub

crater buried under the northern yucatán

Peninsula of Mexico and it dates to

exactly the cretaceous-tertiary boundary

so there we go

so that pretty much shut up all the

doubters and the skeptics who are trying

to say oh no it was a much longer

process a slow you know much more

protracted you know an impact would be

all of a sudden right but you also had

paleontologists taking a much closer

look at the layers going right up to the

boundary and what they discovered was

that yeah it does appear that that the

dinosaurs were prolific right up to the

boundary and then boom they were gone so

when I followed all that you know I

followed all that and you know it just

it intensified my interest in

catastrophes what I got more interested

in though was was the ice ages and

because I grew up in in in a landscape

that had pretty much been sculpted by

the great glaciers because right where

we lived was near the margin of this

what’s called the Laurentide Ice Sheet

this massive five thousand five million

square mile Ice Sheet that covered

three-quarters of Canada down till you

know twelve eleven twelve thirteen

thousand years ago so right there where

we lived was on the fluctuating margin

of that Ice Sheet so what it did was it

created all kinds of unique interesting

landscapes and you know I used to get

this impression even as a small boy that

there was something there there was

something hiding in the landscape some

kind of story

and so only later when I grew up you

know did I begin to understand that yes


there’s a there’s a very profound story

whose it’s being preserved in these

landscapes and so that’s came how it

went I mean like as I think about I’m

sure there’d be many other points along

the way that I would say yes that was a

seminal point where I really got

interested in this sort of thing

it’s fascinating I mean the research

you’re doing it’s uncovering so much and

there’s so much information to pack

in what you just said but I’m sure you

heard about this on Wednesday last week

I think it was on there was an asteroid

that narrowly quote missed earth

overnight and these astronomers had no

idea that it was right next to our earth

so it seems that maybe these

catastrophes are more common than we

would generally think that they are

that’s one of the things I’ve been

arguing now for years Xavier

interestingly maybe by coincidence

several weeks before I was I did an

interview on Russia today actually it

was it was around asteroid day which is

June 30th and I’m there I basically said

you know we can expect these things are

now coming by us about once a month so

you know and I made the point that a lot

of times they’re coming by us and we

don’t know that they’re that they’re

right on us until boom we see them

flying by out there that’s what that’s a

scary concept yes yes and you know this

one was estimated to be as possibly as

big as excuse me 400 feet in diameter

now you’ve probably heard of the

Tunguska event of 1908 in Siberia have

not ok Tunguska in 1908 Siberia very

very important event for people to know

about okay this was a probably a piece

of the comet Encke II which is a member

of the torrid meteor stream came in flew

into the atmosphere early on the morning

of June 30th 1908 near just north of

Lake Baikal in Siberia and it was a

lower density object so like I said it

was about 150 feet in diameter and what

happens when a lower density object

comes into the Earth’s atmosphere it the

atmosphere tends to pile up in front of

it if you will and create so much

pressure that the object will actually

explode before it hits the ground so

this is exactly what happened with this

Tunguska event of 1908 it exploded the

estimate is up about five miles in the

atmosphere and the blast wave radiated


and it flattened where where it exploded

was over old-growth taiga forest so

we’re talking about forests of trees

that are two and three feet in diameter

but eight hundred and twenty or thirty

miles square miles of that old-growth

taiga forest was completely flattened

and and when you look at the the aerial

diagrams of it what happened is that

there was the epicenter of the blast the

shockwave came down and was so hot about

two hundred miles directly below the

epicenter got incinerated to almost

nothing then as you go outside of that

the trees are broken off and splayed

over in a radiating pattern from the

epicenter so by studying the pattern of

tree destruction the the geologists were

able to contend astronomers and other

scientists who are looking at this we’re

able to calculate the intensity of the

blast wave how much pressure it was the

pressure wave from that last actually

encompassed the planet twice and berra

berra graphs which our atmospheric

pressure devices had just been installed

like a couple of years before in England

so they were able to in unbeknownst to

them see that’s the thing when this

event happened nobody really knew but in

England the they were monitoring these

Barrow graphs and they saw that a

pressure wave passed over England and

nobody knew what it was and then 11

hours later a second one passed over

England they still didn’t know what it

was but they made you know notes and

records of this and it was only like

20-some years later after Russian

scientists got to the site of the

Tunguska blast that they were able to

put two and two together and realize

well that pressure wave passed over

England something like an hour after the

blast in Siberia a couple that maybe it

was a couple of hours so then they

realized and from that they were then

able to conclude or derive considerably

more information about the nature of the


now that the intensity or energy

released during that atmospheric blast

has been estimated to be around the

equivalent of a 15 Megaton hydrogen bomb

explosion Wow now 15 Megaton hydrogen

bomb is about the size that is the size

of the largest nuclear warheads in the

American arsenal back in the 60s and 70s

during the peak of the Cold War and

basically a 15 Megaton bomb could wipe

out any sizable metropolitan area on

earth because they were they were a bomb

of that size was known as a city buster

because basically you drop it on any

major city

you know I’m near Atlanta but could be

Washington DC it could be LA it could be

Chicago doesn’t matter you’ve pretty

much destroyed the whole city it’s for

sure yeah and and if the object that

came by the earth last week was

estimated to have been possibly up to

427 feet in diameter

yeah well because assuming it is that

it’s a roughly very roughly circular

object volume scales as the cube of the

radius so what that means is that you

you look at an object to get its volume

like with Tunguska you would go the

radius which say is 75 feet that cubed

then that times basically 4/3 so the

formulas 4/3 R to the third power and

then that gives you the volume so if you

take the volume of this object using

that formula it’s about 18 times larger

actually than the Tunguska so you can

think of it essentially as being in the

ballpark of 18 times more powerful than

the Tunguska blast if that thing had

struck the earth Wow now a blast of that

power that’s not only a city buster that

could take and that could pretty much

like wipe out an entire state well what

what state are you and Xavier where are

you looking like I’m on the East Coast

okay well yeah so I mean it’s gone and

I am it it’s gone if something like that

happens for sure yes they think of the

state of Virginia something the size of

the state of Virginia you would pretty

much have total devastation and it would

be even worse if the object fragmented

into multiple pieces and and again one

of the things that happens is that you

know when when they drop the bomb on

here it bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

back in 1945 you know most people think

they imagine a bomb falling and then

hits the ground and it explodes well

that’s not how this was done this thing

was detonated those those atomic bombs

were detonated in the atmosphere because

what happens is if it hits the ground

then the ground absorbs a lot of the of

the energy they wanted to release as

much energy into the atmosphere as

possible because that increases the

radius of destruction see so an object

that that let’s say the size of the of

the asteroid last week if it comes by

and hit fragments as it’s coming into

the atmosphere it would actually turn

into more like a shotgun blast you see

you might have you could have half a

dozen or ten or twenty pieces of that

coming in and that would spread out as

its as its penetrating the atmosphere

and really create a tremendous amount of

surface destruction I mean and when we

look at you know how many times this has

happened in in the history of

civilization I mean how many times do

you think that this has happened this

has occurred on earth I mean hey it

seems like I mean this happens over and

over but does do in your research do you

get to a point where you see humans

build up to a certain point in

technological advancement and then

there’s a cataclysm followed by a flood

or is there a pattern that we can look

at well yeah it seems of course one of

the things that’s coming from these

studies is that yeah these kinds of

cosmic encounters happen with much

greater frequency than anybody was

imagining even a few decades ago um and

you see here’s the thing about Xavier to

think about with with Tunguska there was

no crater

you know cratering like I don’t know if

you know meteor crator the famous crater

in Arizona heard it’s okay there’s

there’s um there’s a crater in Arizona

near near Winslow and it’s about a

kilometer wide and 600 feet deep and it

was it was caused by the impact into the

ground of an iron asteroid now it was

estimated to be roughly in the ballpark

of the same size as the Tunguska event

here’s the difference though tangu ski

event is a much lower density object it

was you know it was almost certainly a

piece of a comet

so therefore its density is not going to

be you know the dead density is is based

upon the density of water which is one

gram per cubic centimeter right if you

go out and you pick up an average rock

next to a creek or river that’s going to

be around three grams per cubic

centimeter a piece of cast iron is going

to be about double that see now when an

object let’s picture an object 100 150

feet in diameter

if it’s low-density like 10 gusto it

will explode in the atmosphere but if

it’s a higher density if it’s more like

an iron asteroid which would be you can

imagine imagine if the objects that the

earth might encounter run the gamut from

on one end you might have an object

that’s no more dense than a snowball on

the other end you might have an object

that’s the same density as a piece of

cast iron and then you’ve got everything

in between there’s a whole continuum and

snowball cast iron those are kind of you

know oversimplified terms those are the

end points of that continuum so the

object in Arizona was primarily iron an

iron based meteorite and this is known

because you can find pieces of the of

the meteorite that are distributed all

around the the impact crater so that’s

the difference if you have an iron

object or a higher density object it

will tend to penetrate the atmosphere

strike the earth and leave an impact

crater eventually the impact crater will

get obscured by erosion and set

entry infield and things like that and

then it becomes what’s called an astral

gleam which means star wound and it’s

maybe not necessarily an obvious hole in

the ground if you pull up pictures

savior of meteor crater Arizona you’ll

see pictures and it’s a big obvious ball

shaped hole in the ground okay okay if

you’re following this so far here’s the

significance the lower density objects

like Tengu sky are five to ten times

more prevalent than the higher density

objects that leave observable impact

scars in the earth so the significance

of that is is when we start crater

counting that will not necessarily give

us an accurate assessment of how many

times we’re encountering things from

space right because the estimates are

that the the meteor crater in Arizona

happened somewhere from 25 to 50

thousand years ago so let’s say it

happened you know 30 or 40 thousand

years ago the hole is still there right

with Tunguska what you had was you had

forest blowdown and within another

century or two there won’t be really any

obvious evidence that this tremendously

destructive thing happened there see now

when you consider that the Tunguska type

encounters might be as much as ten times

more frequent than a meteor crater type

encounter now you begin to realize well

yes so we’re realizing that these kinds

of encounters could be way more abundant

than anybody had imagined and and again

you know and one that one day I’ll say

that’s one of the other things that that

has emerging from from modern research

about the structure of meteor showers

and so on and which are all generated

from the disintegration of comets is

that there could perhaps be clustered

impacts periods of of higher higher than


encounters between earth and this cosmic

debris and that’s a very interesting

idea so there may be periods of

clustered bombardment

in fact going back to the KT boundary of

66 million years ago when the dinosaurs

disappeared it now appears that there

was maybe a half a dozen impacts

clustered around that boundary and one

of the reasons that some of the early

critics said well there’s evidence that

the dinosaurs were already on the way

out before the big impact well that was

probably true but there were three or

four smaller impacts leading up to the

big one and then there were several more

after the big ones so what you had was a

period of clustered bombardment and by

the time it was all over yeah the entire

biosphere had been completely remodeled

and dinosaurs were no longer part of it

absolutely incredible Wow just to hear

you speak about all this I mean it it’s

it’s amazing to me just to think at how

frequent this is and not as a matter of

you know if but more of a matter of when

this is going to occur I mean it and it

makes me it makes me wonder you know

what what is the solution for something

like this I mean let’s say that I mean

would would an early warning system even

be something that I don’t know

mainstream the powers that be would

release to us because it would just

create a panic around Earth right if

this was there was an asteroid coming at

us I mean most likely you’re going to

want to be subdued you know you’re not

gonna want to know about this I mean

leave that’s what they’re going to think

right so I mean is there any viable

solution to this event that seems to be

happening quite often yes well step

number one which has been advocated for

a couple of decades now by you know the

astronomers and scientists that have

been following this is that we need to

begin counting we we need a census of

the things that are in space because and

that have the potential to become earth

crossers because because you have to

understand it you’ve got two types of

trajectories out there that could

potentially involved impacts with earth

one is you’ve got a hyperbolic orbit the

geometry of the orbits hyperbolic

a hyperbolic geometry is open-ended so

if an object comes in and it’s in it’s

determined to be on a hyperbolic orbit

what that means is it’s gonna come in

make a passage around the Sun and then

it’s gonna head back out into space and

it’s never coming back again but then

you’ve got elliptical orbits and they’re

usually you can almost think of like a

ping-pong game between the Sun and

Jupiter you can have these long-term

orbits that are hyperbolic if they come

close enough to planets the

gravitational effects of the planets and

prepare because that’s that’s the big

boy of the of the of the bunch there the

geometry of their orbit can be altered

and what is an open-ended hyperbola can

become a closed ellipse now once it

becomes a closed ellipse it’s gonna stay

in this cosmic ping-pong game between

Jupiter and the Sun back and forth

okay now that comet is going to then

begin to undergo a process because when

a comet is in deep space out the way out

there it is going to be essentially in

deep freeze right there’s going to be

something that occurs probably on the

stellar or galactic level that upsets

the reservoirs of comets that exist out

beyond the orbit of Neptune and there

are these hypothetical reservoirs one is

called the Kuiper disc and the other

one’s called a word cloud and they

contain potentially billions of comets

now if you have an event that that

occurs on the Galactic level and this is

all still theoretical but something

apparently will cause the dislodging of

comets from this very delicate orbit

that they’re in way out there and it can

send them this cascading event into the

inner solar system and it turns out that

the planets the outer planets happened

to be spaced just exactly what they

would need to be in order to basically

draw these comets in Neptune for example

if Neptune captures a comet Neptune can

then hand that comet off to your

– Uranus can hand that off to Jupiter

then Jupiter which is like the big boy

of the system will do one of two things

it will gravitationally accelerate that

comet which means that then heads back

out into space or it will decelerate the

comet which means it begins to drop in

towards the Sun at that point it can

become an earth crosser meaning that its

orbit can intersect the orbit of the

earth now once that object comes into

that orbit between Jupiter and Earth it

will begin to it will become active

because comets are loaded with volatile

for example so once they begin to heat

up and once they come into the

gravitational force fields of the inner

planets in the Sun they will become

active and they they will start

outgassing and then they will start

actually disintegrating and one comet

nucleus can become multiple nuclei we

saw this actually happened back in 1994

when comet shoemaker-levy 9 made a very

close pass by Jupiter and a single comet

nucleus was ripped into 21 separate

pieces and so what you now had was a

single large comet nucleus gave birth to

21 smaller nuclei once the the

astronomers were able to track the the

geometric shape and the velocity of

those pieces they’re able to now predict

where it’s going to be and when and

that’s when they realized that 12 months

later it was going to impact Jupiter and

sure enough it did in in the summer of

1994 you had 21 impacts into into the

Jovian atmosphere and so what we learned

from that was a number of things is that

that it’s very typical for one comet

nucleus once it comes into the inner

solar system and becomes active it can

begin to undergo a hierarchy of

disintegrations so what that then means

is that now its orbit its orbital path

begins to becomes littered with that

debris of the disintegrating comet and

each year when we have media streams

like we just experienced the the

Orionids right

so when you have meteor streams whether

it’s the Leonids of the torrents and the

Dragon Age or the Perseids each of these

meteor streams is associated with the

disintegrating comet now the idea is

that when the comet initially begins to

disintegrate there will be areas within

its within its orbital pathway if you

want where this material is byproduct of

its of its disintegration it’s going to

be more densely clustered and in other

places where it might be much less

frequent lots more sparse if you follow

what I’m saying so if those orbits

intersect the Earth’s orbit then the

critical issue is is the earth passing

through that orbit when the density of

material is relatively low meaning the

probabilities of an impact on Earth are

relatively low or is the earth passing

through the stream at a point where the

material in the stream is much more

dense imagine this is a view you’re

driving along this is the analogy I use

you’re driving along a country road and

you’re there’s nobody else on the road

except you so you can kick back you know

you can listen to tunes you know you can

you know look at your iPhone or whatever

but now you’re coming up to an

intersection right now that intersection

is a major highway now when you’re

crossing that intersection that’s when

you’ve got to be careful because now

suddenly the potential for a catastrophe

is increasing and the other factor is is

that you know if it’s a major roadway

you know like any roadways around any

urban area and in in the u.s. you know

that if you’re out there driving at 5 or

6 p.m. there’s gonna be a whole lot more

traffic than if you’re driving it at 5

a.m. or 4 a.m. or 3 a.m. in the morning

right well the same analogy holds it

depends on you’re not only crossing the

stream or crossing the highway it’s also

how much traffic is there at the time

you’re crossing so we cross the the

torrid meteor stream twice each year

right most of the time we pass through

it and what we get is a is a fairly

impressive meteor shower meaning that

the material that we’re encountering is

just small it might be this

of a fingernail up to a few feet in

diameter if you got a an object that’s a

few feet in diameter coming into the

atmosphere it creates a magnificent

fireball but so excuse me so the the

idea here is that the Tunguska object

was June thirtieth which is the peak of

the summer time towards it it also came

from the direction of the Sun well

because this toward MediaStream picture

it’s going out not quite to Jupiter it

turns around and it comes back and as

it’s coming down towards the Sun it’s

accelerating in its velocity

it sort of slingshots around the Sun in

what’s called its perihelion passage it

comes back from around the Sun and then

begins to head back out towards Jupiter

so when we cross the stream in midsummer

around June 30th if you’re looking up

the stream from the direction that these

meteors are coming from you’re looking

towards the Sun so they tend to be

invisible and and what happened was on

an early morning of June 30th you know

people didn’t see this thing till the

last minute it was already in the

atmosphere coming through the atmosphere

when people began to see it now the

other peak when we’re crossing the

stream the second time is centered right

around Halloween in fact the torrents

have been sometimes referred to as the

Halloween meteors now at this point

we’re crossing the stream but the stream

is coming from the direction of Jupiter

so you’re looking out into space away

from the Sun so now you can actually see

the meteor stream you can see the

meteors coming in some but but again the

whole point I’m trying to make see is

that the two torrid meteor stream

probably originated from a giant comet

that came into the solar system between

25 and 30 thousand years ago begin to

undergo this hierarchy of

disintegrations littered near-earth

space with the byproducts of its of its

disintegration and earth has from time

to time encountered this stuff and the

last time it happened on a major scale

was 1908

although right after seismometers were

placed on the moon during the Apollo

program I think it was they were still

operating I think it was 1976 on June

29th or 30th there was a clustered

bombardment on the moon that was almost

certainly torrid meteor stream in in

origin and there’s been a number of

other interesting encounters that were

likely torrid meteor stream related so

that’s a little bit how it works it’s

you know it’s it’s a complex system and

it’s not you know a lot of the critics

early on were imagining that well if you

had a mass extinction event it was

caused by an impact that should have

just been one event clean it’s done it’s

over with

right because what they’re imagining is

a single impact that and they’re and

they’re also doing crater counting so

right there if you’re only relying on

crater counting you’re not gonna get an

accurate determination of how many times

earth encounters cosmic it’s long to

breathe yeah right so what they were

doing was they were crater counting and

saying well based on this we know that

it’s you know major impacts that we need

to worry about only happened say every

million years right well this this is

really what is done is created a false

sense of security because that’s not the

case at all and and and the big impacts

like the dinosaur impact yes that these

things are very infrequent but you know

a dinosaur scale impact is basically

going to wipe out civilization

completely probably cause the extinction

of the human species because if you look

at what’s now known about that KT impact

I mean it was pretty pretty wild stuff I

mean you had global fire storms you had

you know you had acid rain with a pH of

one that you know on large parts of the

planet now pH of 1 that’s battery acid

you know try to imagine a global rain

storm a battery acid you know how did

anything survive you know seismologists

have looked at it and said well with an

impact of that intensity you probably

had fair

of every fault lion on earth you also

had gigantic volcanism going on the

Deccan Traps of India seemed to Corin

side with the impact they may have

actually been triggered by the force of

the impact that in turn then began to

eject billions of tons of sulfuric

aerosols into the into the atmosphere

which then would have added to the chaos

of that time so but the thing is my

point is an event like that is not

really the thing that we need to be

concerned about in my opinion what we

need to be concerned about is the

smaller stuff that could perhaps take

out the east coast of the United States

not cause a mass extinction of the human

species but could cause economic

destruction that would take literally

decades to recover from yeah I mean the

the system as it is seems to be built on

toothpicks I mean you you move one

toothpick around even a little bit and

suddenly you find you know this this

havoc I mean just for an example I I was

I was traveling a couple weekends ago

and striving up on the highway and there

was an incident reported a little bit

north and there was traffic backed up

for miles miles and miles miles so I

mean if if there if there’s an event

that maybe isn’t as big as something

that that caused the dinosaurs to be

extinct but small enough that it could

take out something like a major city

then I mean it’s it’s definitely

something that we need to be aware of

and conscious of I mean uh it seems like

it seems like that that mainstream media

has sort of prepared us in a way for

these types of events I mean there’s

there’s a lot of apocalyptic type P

Matic movies that are coming out in the

mainstream do you think that there’s any

correlation or connection do you think

that humans just have some sort of

fascination with this this type of thing

this type of theme or is it something


well I think that you know we carry this

imprint you know our ancestors suffered

through huge catastrophes you know the

the could not the cretaceous-tertiary

but the Younger Dryas catastrophe of

twelve thousand eight hundred to 13,000

years ago was a major global event and

it did cause a mass extinction a mass

extinction of about half of the great

megafauna species of Earth it caused the

sudden extinction of the Clovis culture

that was very prevalent in North America

so we do have in our immediate past a

global event

that was not as severe as the

cretaceous-tertiary boundary but in its

own way was probably when you go back

and you begin to look at the evidence

for catastrophic events in Earth history

it’s pretty safe to say that the Younger

Dryas boundary catastrophe may have been

the most severe event in somewhere

between 3 & 5 million years and so

really our modern history emerges out of

that event you know we the human

population I think the evidence is now

pretty overwhelming that the human

population took a major hit you know

when you when you start thinking about

the the amazing megafauna that was

living throughout the the ice ages you

know the the mastodons and the four

species of mammoths and the giant ground

sloths and the cave bears and the huge

camels and I mean you got a list of

about a hundred and twenty of these

amazing mega mammals that roamed the

earth and right around the time of the

Younger Dryas pounder II they went

extinct and you know there been various

theories as to what caused this

extinction and the dominant one really

since the fifties and sixties has been

that human hunting was to blame human

predation but for many many reasons and

we could do a whole conversation just on

this for many reasons that idea is now


because the extinction happened too fast

the the the estimates for the number of

people on the earth during the latter

stages of the of the Ice Age let’s say

fourteen to fifteen to sixteen thousand

years ago was less than the number of of

woolly mammoths so you know then you

from that you’re going to surmise that

paleo-indian hunters on foot using

Spears were able to exterminate

somewhere around 10 million woolly

mammoths worldwide so quick that they

weren’t able to reproduce the species

you know the idea just really becomes

almost laughable what do you think about

it but but that was the dominant idea

and you know that idea has now been

challenged it’s been challenged all the

way along but but it seemed to fit the

narrative because the idea now is man is

destroying nature on earth and anything

that can now be invoked to support the

contention that that humans are bad for

the planet is given a lot of press and

so you know this is not to say that we

you know don’t have a have a bad imprint

in a lot of ways we do but in some ways

you know we may actually end up being

the salvation for the planet because the

human species are the one species out of

all of the species on earth now that can

anticipate the next impact and what we

realize now is that impacts like you

even said earlier much more frequent

than anybody he’d even imagined and you

know there are five great mass

extinctions in Earth history the the the

terminal Ordovician the late devonian

the Jurassic Triassic the Cretaceous

tertiary all of these extinction events

are associated with either gigantic

volcanism or impacts and so and there

may be a connection between these

large-scale volcanic events and impacts

there may be a connection between

collapses and reversals of the

geomagnetic field and cosmic impacts and

there certainly is a direct connection


extinction of species and cosmic impacts

were to me this thing now gets really

interesting is now when we start talking

about the extinction of human

civilizations in the past because we may

be looking at the same mechanism there

will be times when nature just convulses

and I think that the that the most

evidence is now pointing for a cosmic

trigger behind these convulsions of

terrestrial nature that have led to mass

extinctions and complete complete

reorganizations of the biosphere I mean

yeah think about this as Avior you know

up until about thirteen thousand years

ago half over half of North America had

a climate like the South Pole and you

had these massive ice sheets you had the

Laurentide ice sheet that was sent out

over Hudson Bay it may have been as much

as two miles thick then you had to

Cordilleran ice sheet that covered all

of the Canadian Rockies and up into

Alaska and between those two you had

somewhere between six and seven million

square miles of the Earth’s surface

buried under ice right when all of that

ice accumulated what that meant was that

ocean levels had to go down

correspondingly in other words you’ve

now taken six or seven million cubic

miles of water out of the ocean basins

frozen it as glacial ice and accumulated

on the continents right so now when

ocean levels go down 400 feet you’re

exposing most of the continental shelves

that RIM every continent on Earth right

so now during the Ice Age you’ve got

this whole ecosystem that emerges on

these continental shelves right and if

you had humans during that time the most

benign place to live the best the most

favorable real estate would have been

coastlines of the earth because the

oceans would have helped to moderate the

the severe cold of the of the Ice Age

and so if you had human cultures

evolving during the Ice Age just like

when you look at the the origin of

modern human culture into into this you

know global culture that we’ve got now

it starts with port cities

in those port cities become places of

trade they become part of a network of

economic exchange and just as we see

civilization forming on coastlines in

the last three to five hundred years it

would have been natural for villages and

communities of people even if there were

cities for them to form on the

coastlines well those coastlines now

Xavier four hundred feet under ocean

water so you know that’s part of the

reason why I say it’s premature to close

the book and say well we know that

thirteen fourteen fifteen thousand years

ago the only thing people were doing was

leading a hunter-gatherer existence and

they never got beyond that until the

Industrial Revolution or whatever see

because once you begin to understand how

how extremely this planet has been

remodeled over and over again you

realize well whatever existed here

before we shouldn’t be surprised that

we’re not finding much evidence of

something you know so the thing we got

to do is I think is first of all is to

begin to Counting these though try to

locate you mean the estimates are now

that we maybe know ten percent of the

potential earth impactors out there so

the key to surviving an event like that

is how much mean time do we have you

know what we learned from this event

last week was zero lead time right now

if that thing had come into the

atmosphere we’d be picking up the pieces

for years to come and we would have and

if it had happened over a populated area

there could have potentially been

millions of casualties the economic

consequences of that would have like I

said would have been felt for years and

and see that thing Xavier is just a

small object you know if an object a

thousand feet in diameter now you’re

looking at something you know a hundred


Tunguska and and that would that an

object of that size could take out the

entire East Coast if it hit the oceans

it would generate huge tsunamis that

making landfall might have been two to

three hundred feet

you know there been an order of

magnitude beyond the the the big

tsunamis that we saw hit Japan and

Indonesia in the last couple of decades

so that the consequences of it would be

severe it wouldn’t cause a mass

extinction like the KT but it would

cause economic repercussions and huge

mortality events locally it could cause

mass extinctions so what we need to be

doing is we need we need a census of

these things and this is why I’m a firm

believer that we need to move forward

with it with a vigorous space program

because right now basically we’re

sitting ducks and and if we have a

vigorous space program you know we’re in

a position to react to it to respond to

it and and you know really if we if we

detect an earth impact or early enough

mm-hmm really all you got to do is nudge

the darn thing you know and then a

direct impact can become a why miss just

with a nudge see so you know there’s any

number of proposals on the drawing

boards for asteroid impact mitigation

Rindell all that would be yeah go ahead

I mean let me bump in for a second here

you know I’m curious about all this you

know because if if you’re anything like

me you know there’s your your senses are

kind of in tune to this this vibration

or frequency or whatever is going on

here not exactly sure how to define it

but it feels like my antenna is up for

these events when when they’re happening

when they’re coming worldwide events you

could see the work of dr. Roger Nelson

the global consciousness project it

seems like humans are linked into a

global network of consciousness where

they’re communicating in some way about

you know what’s going to happen so you

know today I was reading something that

was trending on Twitter today that the

Greenland ice sheet braces for record

single day meltdown after Europe heat

wave moves north I mean there’s there

seems to be so

drastic climate change that we’re

encountering this freak weather it’s

Brecker breaking weather I mean would

you you’ve written on the effects of co2

and you’ve talked about how carbon is

there is there’s a demonization of that

you know what do you think is happening

when we’re looking at these these

extreme weather phenomenon well I’m kind

of glad you brought that up because you

know I’ve been studying weather and

extreme weather for years and years it’s

part of the thing that I look at and you

know I’ve cataloged these extraordinary

events that have have occurred over and

over and over again on any timescale you

can look at and you know again this

would be something that would be

probably the subject of a whole

discussion in itself but compared to

some of the things that we’ve looked at

in the recent past I personally I don’t

think we see anything that’s that

unprecedented now if you want to talk

about droughts yeah we’ve had droughts

that are way way more severe than

anything we’ve seen in the last 50 years

if you want to talk about floods yeah

we’ve had these enormous floods that

have you know wiped out entire

watersheds we’ve you know forest fires

you know one of the things that I’ve

studied and written considerably about

is some of the great forest fires of the

19th century and these forest fires were

just phenomenal and they were just on a

scale that makes them almost

unbelievable you know there was a the

Peshtigo fire of 1871

one of the interesting coincidences

bizarre coincidences probably

everybody’s heard of the Great Chicago

Fire right mrs. O’Leary’s cow kicking

over the lantern you ever heard of that

sure yeah sure

the Great Chicago Fire well if you as I

have done I’ve gone through the

literature and read over and over the

the the eyewitness accounts and the the

write-ups about the Chicago Fire and it

basically started at nine

clock on Sunday evening October 8 1871

and Chicago Fire to this day is still

the the most devastating urban fire in

American history the most devastating

forest fire in terms of sheer mortality

was the Peshtigo Wisconsin fire and

here’s what’s interesting you read the

accounts about that the eyewitness

accounts and and so forth they’re able

to pinpoint the inception of that fire

and guess what 9 9 o’clock p.m. Sunday

October 8 1871 in other words that the

most devastating urban fire and the most

devastating forest fire in American

history started simultaneously right in

both cases what you see is that in terms

of Peshtigo people described how the

fire came out of the sky and it lit the

treetops on fire first

just like in Chicago they’re describing

how the fire is coming out of the sky

and sets the tops of buildings and

church steeples and things like that on

fire first

now the Peshtigo fire basically was like

a cyclone of fire that wiped out

thousands of square miles within a day

within a day then there was the Hinkley

fire of 1883 same thing it was a

cyclonic firestorm that consumed a swath

of a forest that was about 20 to 30

miles wide and 50 miles long and it did

this literally in a matter of a few

hours and the flame column was so high

that it could be seen from Duluth which

is a city up on the shore of Lake

Superior well the distance between

Hinkley Minnesota and Duluth is far

enough that if you were able to see the

flame column it means that the flame

column had to be at least five miles

high so I could go through this whole

litany of hurricanes of tornado spells

forest fires floods and by the droughts

and by the end of this you’d go oh my

god this stuff is what we’re

experiencing in the last decade or two

really isn’t worse than than that and as

far as the global warming

you know when you look at it carbon

dioxide carbon dioxide is very very

critically important as a greenhouse gas

in the first fifty two hundred parts per

million but it’s thermal capture ability

drops off very rapidly after about a

hundred parts per million so that the

the curve that it actually describes in

terms of thermal capture is a

logarithmic curve so that means it’s

it’s diminishing almost like in a

reverse exponential curve so each

incremental increase in carbon dioxide

is doing less and less in terms of

capturing long wave solar radiation

emanating from the earth and the way

that computer models are structured in

order to ramp up the effects of carbon

dioxide is to introduce positive feed

feedback amplification primarily through

water vapor and so the idea is that

you’re going to get this runaway

positive feedback amplification because

the even though the carbon dioxide is

acknowledged to not really have much

additional thermal capture it has enough

that it increases the water vapor in

water vapor of course is the primary

greenhouse gas that far and away over

dominates carbon dioxide but then that

uptick in in in water vapor now then

causes this feedback that causes more

emission of carbon dioxide presumably

from the soil from from the oceans from

peat bogs and so on then that causes

more water vapor to go into the

atmosphere which causes more outgassing

of carbon dioxide but the point is is

that without those positive feedback

amplifications the thermal capture

ability of carbon dioxide is by the time

it hits 400 parts per million is pretty

much exhausted because it only deals

it’s only interested carbon dioxide is

only interested in that wavelength of

say about 14 to 16 micrometers

micrometer Zoar microns right and that

is pretty much that little window is

pretty much already saturated so it’s

just like if you had a sponge and you

put it on the tape

it’s a dry sponge and you start pouring

water on it that sponge is gonna suck up

the water suck up the water it’s gonna

keep doing it until the Sun till it gets

saturated the point gets saturated you

add more water but the water is now

gonna just run out of the sponge it’s

gonna leak right so in a sense that’s

what’s happening once that 14 to 16

micron window wavelength micron window

gets saturated now it’s just leaking out

into space so I think from my own

studies I think the Sun is a much bigger

factor and we again we could do a whole

discussion about the Sun and what we now

know about the Sun and it’s it’s a much

more dynamic you see for most of the

20th century the the assumption was of

the solar constant and the idea that the

the radiant output of the Sun didn’t

very enough to even bother with and so

when the IPCC was launched in early 90s

all the computer modelers ignored the

role of the Sun because they were still

believing this this model of the so

called solar constant and therefore

because the Sun is invariable we do not

need even bother with it in our in our

models but as it turns out every tons of

research since then have shown that oh

no the Sun is actually considerably more

dynamic and variable than was being

assumed 30 or 40 years ago so and so

sorry no let me just be really quick

we’ve got our first super chat thank you

so much for $2 never so clever as this

if you’d like a question for Randall

please do send a super chats to help us

keep this going here but he never so

clever as this asks for you Randall our

preventive force fires a realistic task

burning off the underbrush yes I would

say it is and I think the Native

Americans understood that and that’s why

they deliberately set forest fires

because what has happened is because of

our environmental policies over the last

30 or 40 years it’s it’s allowed the

accumulation of a huge fuel load on the

forest floors and these field

catastrophic fires you know in

California has had one of the most

draconian hands-off policies you know

there are going to be there’s going to

be natural mortality of forests that

that have nothing to do with with human

activity so at some point you know trees

do die and you know back fifty years ago

you had the Forest Service stratagem was

to create firebreaks you know they had

roads that they would maintain at that

firefighting equipment could get into

well a lot of those roads have been

closed down I mean I I traveled through

the western states all the time and I

can I can testify that roads that were

accessible even in the 90s are now gated

you can’t get in and the roads are

basically growing back there’s now trees

and stuff even if they open the gates

you couldn’t drive on them now because

you’ve got saplings and things that are

you know ten and twenty and thirty feet

high growing where you used to be roads

well when you have a forest fire you

want to get the forest fire fighting

equipment in there but you see that the

that’s been compromised by the hands-off

policy and you know Native Americans

didn’t have a hands-off policy they

regularly this is well known now they

regularly set forest fires because what

they would do is they would be non

catastrophic they would basically burn

off the the dead debris and the fuel

load that was accumulating on the forest

floor and the large trees would come

through unscathed but now we’ve got

these crown fires because there’s so

much fuel load I mean there are millions

and millions of dead trees in in in

California forests right now and they

finally begun to change their policy a

little bit and say well yeah we could go

and we can begin to harvest some of that

dead timber well they’re forced to

because that dead timber is what leads

to these catastrophic fires but even

even the catastrophic fires in

California last year year before when

you look at some of the the fires we

were talking about the past you go fire

the Hinkley fire or the the the grape

the big burn of 1910 and I and Idaho or

the New Brunswick fires that happened in

the early part of the nineteenth century

these are fire storms that are in a

category all by themselves and they are

so extreme that that they’re almost

impossible to comprehend I mean think

about that you know pietà the five-mile

flame column for the Hinkley fire of

1883 what does that mean I mean you’re

talking about trees that are one hundred

and hundred and fifty feet high right

how the hell do you get a five mile

flame column out of that so there’s

there’s something else going on there

that we haven’t figured out yet and I’ve

got some theories on that and I’ve

written on it and there’s a couple of

videos up online where I am talking

about that in more detail these

catastrophic fires but I guess the point

is when you immerse yourself in the

study of global change you realize that

yeah there have been freakish things

going on all along and you can’t go you

know think about this Xavier the big

witch pogroms of the 1600s fifteen and


most of those tens of thousands of wise

women that were in a lot of cases burned

at the stake or hung or or or you know

kicked out of the the in most cases they

were actually they were killed but they

were basically if you look what you see

happening every time you’ve got one of

these increases in the frequency of

which pogroms it’s after a freakish

weather because they’re getting blamed

for you know there’ll be some

extraordinarily cold summer so the crops

die in the field and people get hungry

so they’re looking for a scapegoat so

what they now do is they burn a thousand

witches at the stake and that the in

their minds they now believe that

they’ve addressed the problem I kind of

look at carbon dioxide as being like our

modern which we want to blame everything

on carbon dioxide when in fact I think

that the really the big factor affecting

the warming of the last century is the

Sun because you got to keep in mind as a

viewer that that you know we came out of

three to four hundred years of a period

called the Little Ice Age now the Little

Ice Age is considered to have been one

of the cold

episodes of the entire Holocene the

Holocene is 11600 years old we’re in the

Holocene now it’s the geological epoch

that followed in the wake of the great

Ice Age right so when the ice sheets

melted you know 11 to 13 thousand years

ago melted away it completely changed

the the the the biosphere of the planet

like you know we were talking about sea

levels coming up drowning those

continental shelves millions of square

miles of continental shelf that were

exposed during the late glacial maximum

with a lowered 400-foot lowered sea

level all that all those ecosystems they

were drowned so all of that was lost

right so think about the the change that

would be involved if we were to somehow

able to turn Antarctica the South Pole

into a climate like North America how

would we do it

how would nature do it nobody has any

idea but that’s what happened I mean you

don’t have an ice sheet that’s you know

a mile to two miles thick covering 7

million square miles of land without

having a polar climate and yet within a

few thousand years the ice sheets were

gone the polar climate had shifted to

the modern temperate climate of Canada

in the northern United States today how

do you explain that nobody has an

explanation for that

at this point but it was it was orders

of magnitude greater in severity than

anything we’ve experienced in our

lifetimes so it’s all a matter of

perspective I guess is what I’m getting

to I mean it it seems like there’s many

of these events that you you are finding

through your research and they’re

they’re happening all over the world

there are these impacts and some that

don’t leave these impacts at all and so

you know I think and the awareness of of

this topic is the the first step but yes

also in mainstream science there seems

to be this this very widely held

opposition to these ideas it’s as if

they just don’t want to accept

reality I mean I don’t know what it is

but it seems like you’ve been you know

held back from pursuing this I mean many

of the people that we’ve had on the show

that address what some would call

counterculture issues have you know been

threatened with their tenure I mean

there’s there’s many many ways that they

have been threatened from pursuing their

research further just so that we can

understand better who we are as a human

species why why do you think there’s so

much pushback in the memes well I think

there’s a lot of politics are involved

you know money money is a big part of it

money power politics yeah I mean you

know the whole I think I think of it as

the global warming juggernaut I mean

right from the outset you got to

understand that the Mandate of the IPCC

was to make the case that humans are

mainly responsible for climate change so

in that case you know with that mindset

right from the outset we’re we’re not

going to look at the Sun we’re not going

to look at changes in the jus magnetic

field that could be a big factor we’re

not going to look at the amount of of

dust or in the atmosphere that is a

consequence of volcanism or even the

result of encounters with you know

getting back to the meteor stream model

you know the end result of this process

of disintegration basically is cosmic

dust and you know Fred Hoyle and Chandra


saying did a lot of work on this back in

the 70s and 80s showing what would

happen in terms of global cooling with

the in the the accretion of cosmic dust

and nobody’s ever really refuted it it’s

basically just been ignored and what was

happening I think is that you know we

started sending up solar satellites and

observing the Sun like within the last

quarter century twenty last twenty to

thirty years right until we had those

satellites in place and really started

making detailed studies of the Sun

nobody could say for sure that the Sun

was a major player in global climate

change well now in tandem with the

scenarios emerging about global warming

we’re learning about the Sun and that

it’s a much bigger player in global

change than anybody had imagined but

it’s still being basically ignored to

this to this day and so everything

that’s basically happening now the

attempt is to lay it at the feet of

human activity and you know we hear

about the green New Deal and that we’re

gonna have you know catastrophe you know

in less than 12 years somebody came out

recently saying well we only have 18

months well I’m old enough to remember

that we’ve had these predictions now

going on for 30 years and they’ve never

happened yet and I think that the reason

they haven’t happened is because the

science is flawed and you can’t get a an

accurate assessment of climate change or

global change or environmental change if

you’re ignoring the natural factors that

we know have been operational on any

timescale we can look at since the world

began and they’re not going to stop

they’re not going to stop influencing

the climate they’re not going to stop

influencing the environment they’re

gonna keep right on and here’s my point

is there’s going to be global warming

and global cooling you could take every

human on earth and we could go extinct

and the climate is still gonna change

it’s sometimes there’s going to be

global warming where it’s warmer than

now and other times it’s going to be

global cooling and and you know since

since the turn of the 19th century the

estimate is that we’ve global average

temperatures raised raised by about one

degree right about one degree and it has

because we were in like I was saying

before the Little Ice Age was probably

almost certainly the coldest three or

four centuries of the entire ten twelve

thousand years of the Holocene right

during the Little Ice Age glaciers

worldwide grew to their greatest extent

that they had been in 10,000 years so

the end of the Little Ice Age coincides

exactly with the beginning of us

monitoring global temperature so it’s

almost like saying okay well we started

monitoring the global temperature in

February and now in June it’s warmer way

warmer than it was three months ago


you have to look again at the context

see well of course it’s going to be

warmer on average if it’s going to be

May or June and it is in February or

March but that’s natural see we’re

looking at such a small slice of time

it’s not really accurate for us to

extrapolate from looking at a hundred

years of climate data to know what’s

going on so we have to resort to paleo

climatological data the proxies that

Nature has provided for us to understand

global change in the past and when we do

that and we have a context for

understanding what’s going on now we

realize that ok so mmm it’s not as

extreme or freakish as I thought it was

you know I mean we’re talking you know

California’s had droughts that have

lasted for 20 years 30 years and this

was long before the Industrial

Revolution and in every one of those we

could we could address in the same way

so I think that you know big mistake to

ignore the Sun big mistake to ignore the

the natural factors that we now know

cause climate change and this is not to

say that humans are not a factor because

we are and we certainly do need to get

our act in order but I’m more concerned

with a particulate pollution which is

not carbon dioxide I’m more concerned

with plastics in the ocean things that

you can actually see and that we could

address and do something about if the

resources and the incentive was there

and I’m all for protecting endangered

species which mostly is due to habitat

loss rather than climate change so you

know we need to figure out ways to

create safe havens for species and

realize that you know habitat loss is

the biggest contributing factor to the

extinction of species so if we can begin

to set aside reserves places where

species can thrive but we also have to

bear in mind that it’s natural for

species to go extinct

they do that no matter what we do some

species are gonna go extinct and most of

the extinctions of the last hundred to

200 years that could be have been Island

extinctions because Island Ecology’s are

they don’t have the diversity that helps

one you know the diversified system that

contributes to survival and most of the

extinctions that have taken place on

islands was the result of invasive

species and it was not and enough really

nothing to do with climate change it had

more to do with with species that came

in the displaced existing species and

those Island extinction events they’re

pretty much historical now I mean

they’re done with so we’re not gonna

really run into that anymore so the main

concern would be habitat loss and far

far more of a factor than then a half a

degree or a one degree warming and

average global temperature but even

there see what I’m getting at is that

there are studies and I have dozens and

dozens as these studies in my collection

looking that the Sun may have

contributed half a conservatively half

of the warming of the last hundred years

then on the other hand you’ve also got

the urban heat island effect and this

was another factor that’s been ignored

into computer models the the fact that

you know when we started most

temperature data collection stations in

the early or late nineteenth early late

1800s Early 1900s were rural based most

of them are at airports and those

airports generally were rural well in

the ensuing development of a hundred

hundred and twenty years those of course

we didn’t have Airport – till the 1920s

and 30s but even before that they were

still mostly rural and so the cities

have grown you know the amount of

asphalt and concrete and heat trapping

materials has grown exponentially and

there has not been adequate accounting

for the amount of warming that would

occur in the record based upon the earth

in Thailand effect and in fact some

studies have suggested it could be a

third to half of the one degree increase

in average global temperature of the

last hundred years could be blamed on

the urban heat island effect because you

know yourself I mean you can start

looking at them like weather reports and

depending on a lot of factors quite

often you will see that the major urban

areas are two three four degrees warmer

than the surrounding rural areas and

that’s because the concrete the

machinery the asphalt all of that is

absorbing heat and then that heat is are

irradiated at night and that will cause

a it’ll contaminate the purity of the

temperature data that you’re looking at

see so they’re they’re attempting to

correct for that right now but what it

seems to be showing up is it may be one

third to one half of the warming

increase of the last hundred years might

be it’s real but it’s urban heat island

rather than carbon dioxide so as soon as

you get away from the urban areas and

the masses of concrete you know in my

building business one of the things we

do is we design structures to take

advantage of the of the thermal capacity

of various materials such as concrete

and stone when we design a building or a

house we want to get solar gain during

the day when the Sun is accessible and

then at night when the Sun is not there

the the thermal energy that has been

absorbed into the stone or the concrete

or whatever the thermal mass is now

reradiating into the space so it’s it’s

the same concept Wow Randall I mean what

an amazing interview

I mean you are loaded with research and

it’s clear that you know people such as

yourself are trailblazing this path for

others and I mean you’ve got quite the

following many of your fans in the chat

tonight talking about your work very

enthusiastic about what you’re doing and

they love you know absorbing all this

information you’ve clearly done the

research and the work and you know

hopefully and there’s it seems like

there’s a lot of work for us as humans

to do to better understand the the

cycles of our planet and you know maybe

if we were lucky enough to have the

support of the mainstream and science

maybe that process would speed up but

you know maybe we just need a close call

for that to happen a closer call you

know you know yeah that I’ve said the

same thing for at least a decade now a

close call or even I hate to say it in a

strike you know a repeat of 1908 I think

would be a big wake-up call because I

really do think that you know we’re

spending so much time now especially you

know with the confrontational

geopolitics you know warfare you know

preparation for war and and all the

saber rattling that’s going on I look at

all of that as being just basically

contrived differences and we’re really

all on the same planet we’re all in the

same boat and really the big issues

affect all of us and I think we’re

wasting a lot of time and effort and

attention on these you know these made

up conflicts when really you know what

I’d like to see is an international

program to you know offload our

industrial civilization from the planet

which we could essentially do that the

the engineers have had plans on the

under drawing board since the 1970s you

know once you get outside the atmosphere

solar energy becomes really a viable way

of powering systems of powering

factories and we could see it happening

you know a lot of the it’s it’s really

an encouraging thing to me that a lot of

the private billionaires from Elon Musk

to Richard Branson and Oh

Amazon Jeff Bezos they’re all very

interested now in the the private

exploration and economic development of

this resources of space and I’m all for


because I tend to think that human

beings our ultimate vindication is that

we will become guardians of this planet

and we have we have had 10,000 years now

where we’ve been between major global

catastrophes right but when we look back

at the record of the last quarter

million to half million years what we

see is over and over again there have

been these enormous extreme spasms

within the natural order any one of

which could cause major havoc with

species habitat loss could pull the plug

on modern civilization could literally

lead to a billion or more deaths and

basically what we’re seeing within the

context of the bigger picture is that

we’ve had the longest period of

generally stable climate that we can see

in the last quarter million years and

it’s given us the opportunity to evolve

as a culture and a civilization a

technologically based civilization as we

have and so now we’re in a position

where we can we have the technologies to

understand the cretaceous-tertiary

events to understand the Younger Dryas

events to understand the Tunguska event

and reconstruct it

a hundred years ago we didn’t see right

now we have the technology to understand

yeah the Sun is a variable star and

sometimes it gets hyperactive and when

it does the consequences to our

civilization could be profound see so

it’s it’s like we need to be taking all

of this into account and realizing that

yeah if there’s even a small impact it

could be ecologically devastating to the

biosphere and we have the ability to

prevent that now does that put a moral

mandate honest I kind of think it does

and this is why I would oppose any

effort to scale back our industrial

civilization i I think we need to move

forward and by moving forward you know

if we look since you know I’m old enough

now to remember when you know living up

in the Midwest well you can’t swim in

Lake Michigan because it’s too polluted

or Lake Huron especially well it’s

now the fish are back you know we we

evolved culturally to where we could now

we because we weren’t preoccupied on a

day-to-day business of survival we were

able to now turn our attention to the

larger environment and say yeah it’s not

good to Lake Huron is poison it’s not

good that there’s we’re dumping this

crap into there the rivers let’s fix

that and we have been fixing it and we

need to continue fixing it but going

back to the Stone Age is not going to be

or going back to a feudal system it’s

not going to be the answer because

basically at that point now we are

vulnerable our civilization is

vulnerable and the planet is involved is

vulnerable and like you said the next

impact is inevitable it’s just a matter

of when and the magnitude of it yeah

Randall I mean you you said it here man

it it really does seem that you know

technology if P if people just spent

less time you know on their phones

looking down at them and maybe I started

looking around at what was going on

around them as well that that maybe we

would I mean but there is something to

be said for you know conversations like

this and the ability to communicate with

someone across the world

I mean it’s allowing us to generate

information collections of information

that we would have never been able to to

collect before at the rate at which

we’re doing it and it’s it’s virtually

Lightspeed so you know there’s there’s a

lot happening there’s a lot changing and

it’s time that we grow up as a species

time that we start looking at this as a

responsibility that we have well said

for you know for the sake of our

children’s children that you know we

hand them a world that is habitable and

I wonder about that sometimes but

Randall I mean this is there’s been such

a amazing interview I you know I we that

we’ve gone over a bunch of different

things is there anything that I could

have asked you that you want to talk

about that but I haven’t mentioned or

brought up yet Oh save you there’s lots

of things okay maybe maybe one would be

the the legacy of traditions that we’ve


from the past from the people our

ancestors that have have lived and died

and experienced things that we’re

talking about there’s a whole legacy of

of traditions mythology and legends and

folklore symbolic systems that have been

preserved in various venues through oral

traditions through architecture through

sacred writings that can be to me is

kind of like the other dimension of this

is that we turn from you know the modern

technological perspective and we see

that we have this traditional

perspective that can so powerfully

complement and enhance the scientific

worldview and and that would be again a

subject for a whole other conversation

we could get into talking about the

various myths the stories of the great

deluge the stories of the the

alternating destruction of the world by

fire and water the stories about you

know some advanced civilization

whether it’s hyperborea or Atlantis or

any of the number of names that that

have been given to it you know the

Garden of Eden

there are many of these themes that have

come down to us this is not to say I’m

not saying oh you know if we go back

they were you know driving cars and

flying airplanes and doing all of this

kind of stuff because we could be

talking about technological advancements

here that wouldn’t look anything at all

like our modern industrially made

civilization and and and so I’ve done a

considerable amount of research into

what that kind of a civilization could

possibly look like

and of course in the aftermath of a

global catastrophe or or cataclysmic

event it would be very difficult to find

the hard evidence you know you could

have an advanced civilization that is

not producing plastics right that’s not

building automobiles although you know

if you take an automobile put it out in

you know in a field and sits there you

know 200 years from now you wouldn’t

find anything of that

automobile you know it’s gonna brushed

it away so you know you could take in

fact there’s not much within within

10,000 years if if we just walked away

from our modern civilization and just

left it to the vicissitudes of nature

what would we see in 10,000 years to

tell us that we had existed and and

built this amazing civilization with our

great cities and airports and you know

highway systems on what would remain

nothing nothing you could see except a

few isolated examples such as the Great

Pyramids of Egypt possibly probably

Mount Rushmore as long as there was no

seismic shaking of that area that caused

the collapse of the rock faces you would

still have Mount Rushmore there but see

and that’s without even a catastrophe

intervening you start throwing

catastrophes into the mix like I’ve been

studying and you realize how much

geomorphic remodeling takes place during

some of these I mean yeah there are

whole landscapes that are buried under

thousands of miles of sediment there are

other and that sediment was other

landscapes that got stripped away and

eroded by these intensely erosive events

see people don’t understand it you know

we’re talking about for example floods

from twelve or thirteen thousand

fourteen thousand years ago that were

that are measured in hundreds of

millions of cubic feet per second even

some of those smaller floods are on a

scale where you couldn’t reproduce them

today because they would require every

single River Creek and stream on earth

all flowing together times 10 or 20 so I

mean this is the scale I mean we’re

talking about you know floods that would

wash away any urban area that existed on

earth were they struck by such a flood

you you know you can’t even imagine a

flow of water that’s a thousand or 1500

feet or even 2,000 feet deep moving at

50 or 60 or 70 miles an hour in the

aftermath of a flood like that nothing

is going to remain and what I’m

describing is not

science fiction it’s real it’s


and this is something you know they did

you a cosmic Rex website we’ve got a lot

of videos and graphics Cameron on the

sacred geometry website has quite a bit

of that stuff to show that yeah these

outsized events have been a part of

Earth history and we need to understand

why and we need to you know address that

too you know with the question of could

such a thing happen again now as far as

those particular floods it’s not likely

that would happen again because those

floods were generated by the rapid

catastrophic melting of the great ice

sheets but how you would have gigantic

floods like that is a small asteroid

falling into one of the world’s oceans

producing a tsunami that makes landfall

and it’s two or three hundred feet high

or higher Wow Randall thank you so much

why don’t you give us you know where

where people can find your work the

website are you doing any conferences

where can people find your work in any

conferences that you might yeah there’s

a couple of things coming up and I don’t

have this dates or time but this fall

I’ve got several things that I’m going

to be doing one in Minnesota and one in

Arkansas at Little Rock I may be doing

some more tours I did a tour I led a

tour I took about 75 people out into the

field for over ten days in Colorado in

May and we mostly were exploring

geological features and archeological

features so we were looking at the The

Lost Chaco and culture of northern New

Mexico and southern Colorado I might be

doing a field trip this fall we’ll just

have to see how the time works out I

what happens is you know I’ve been doing

a lot of writing and I’ve been working

for what three or four years now in a

book and it’s just trying to get this

book finished but I keep doing too many

things I keep going places and you know

doing podcasts and things instead of

finishing my book so oh well okay so

guys we’re gonna get out of here what we

went super late we were late to arrive

so we we let it go a little bit longer

so you guys could hear it

that’s gonna do it for us thank you so

much for listening if you’re listening

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of of the show one of the most common

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probably the biggest compliment that you

can give us is a review on iTunes so

thank you so much for listening my guest

Randall Carlson tonight what a pleasure

and we’re gonna get out of here we’ll

see you guys next week

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