welcome to the human experience podcast
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you on a journey we are the intimate
strangers thank you for listening I had
a lot of time alone to ponder how is the
natural world occurring and how did I
end up in the middle of it like the
strange thing for me that all of a
sudden we arrive here and we have this
thing we call consciousness and if we
were to tap just one billionth of a
percent of what’s in a centimeter cube
of space we could run our planet for
thousands of years the next step in the
human evolution I believe very strongly
is to actually learn the more
fundamentally what gravity is and learn
to control it and then free humanity
from being stuck on only one planet it’s
very difficult to bring new ideas to
this world much of my work has been
censored it’s extremely difficult for me
to publish because it was right along
the lines of what I was thinking earlier
that maybe the space is responsible for
matter not matter defining the space
[Music]what’s up folks
Xavier katana here you are listening to
the human experience our guest for today
mr. Nassif
and we get into wow the interconnected
nature of the universe and the work that
he’s doing over at the resonance
foundation very interesting episode I
think you guys will really enjoy this
one thank you so much for listening the
human experiences in session my guest
for today is mr. Nasim Hermann Nasim
it’s a pleasure sir thank you for making
the time welcome to hxp thank you thank
you for having me Seema I’ve been
following your work for a long time but
many people might not know who you are
can you just give us an introduction of
who you are Who I am is a very deep
question I think that most people
contemplate throughout their lives but I
have been doing physics for some thirty
years I wrote I think significant
physics theory that have a deep impact
on the standing of ourselves the world
around us and our relationship to the
universe
some of these theories are now confirmed
by experiments and it’s a theory that
unifies quantum physics with relativity
that unifies gravity with the quantum
world of subatomic particles and atoms
so this was something that I instant
worked on for a good portion of his life
after he wrote relativity because there
was this chasm that was generated as a
result of his equations between the
physics we use for the big stuff like
planets and stars and galaxies and and
all this stuff and the atomic structure
you know electrons protons and subatomic
particles so after all this kind of came
to bear Einstein worked literally till
the day he died like he was working on
net lay in to the last minute trying to
find a solution
that would unify those two physics hmm
very interesting so I mean this has been
a problem in Western physics for a very
long time
a sort of gap in understanding between
the macrocosm and the microcosm exactly
and you know the two views don’t agree
with each other one says that space-time
is smooth Einstein field equations says
space-time is smooth it’s curving and
the curvature of space-time produce
gravity but these equations
Einstein field equations don’t actually
define exactly what is space-time you
know and then quantum theory says it’s
not smooth it says that it’s quantized
that it’s discrete that is it’s little
bits
little particle and so the two don’t
agree and that makes it so that we can’t
find a way or so far it hasn’t been
found either than what I wrote a way in
which gravity which is Einstein field
equations can be applied at the quantum
level of the subatomic particles and the
particles that makes up the material
world but the thing is is that the big
things that Einstein field equations
deal with like planets and stars and all
this stuff is all made out of small
stuff you know like particles that makes
the quantum world and so really it’s a
deeper question and it is a question of
how is the quantum world able to
organize to make what’s called a
classical world or the larger microcosm
that we experience every day and that
leads to even deeper questions which is
what is the source of organization how
does things know to come together in
certain ways that make it possible for
us to even be here and
to be able to ponder the question in the
first place you know right and so that
is very profound and you would expect a
theory that would unify the fields of
relativity and quantum physics would
answer some of those deeper questions
about transcends biology how does
biological system all of a sudden
self-organized it’s very it’s a big
mystery
you know biological systems are very
complex and for them to occur on the
random function is very unlikely
extremely unlikely and so what is the
source of their organization how do cell
know to divide in livers and hearts and
everything else to produce an organism
with a hundred trillion cells like a
human being with a thousand billion
billion chemical change every second
that makes everything work just fine you
know all these things are unanswered
questions that you would expect a
unified view of physics would start to
answer it would start to tell us what is
the source at the very profound at a
very fundamental level how did you get
into solving this equation like why did
you feel this draw towards solving this
equation
early on when I was a kid I didn’t fit
in very well into the educational system
into society in general I was kind of an
odd kid I was in Canada I was odd in the
way that the color of my skin and my
name was odd relative to the people
there you know I have a Persian name you
know Iran at the time was unknown almost
me most people there didn’t even know
there was a country with that name I was
born in Switzerland I was never in Iran
but you know even being from Switzerland
I had a different culture at home and I
thought differently I was very
interested in nature and because I
didn’t have much interaction with the
external world I develop a sense of my
internal self in relationship to nature
in which I wandered a lot I had a lot of
time alone to ponder how is the natural
world occurring and how did I end up in
the middle of it like the strange thing
for me that all of a sudden we arrive
here and we have this thing we call
consciousness and we’re able to you know
interact with this world and it’s like
how did this all happen how did I get
here
what is this thing I called my
consciousness and how is this world
coming together and so I I sat in
meditation thinking about those things a
lot and when I did you know when I
observed nature or even when I observed
people I could see there was pattern
this one thing I could see that was seem
to be everywhere is that there was
pattern that they you know like the
patterns that the branches of a tree
that the the patterns that makes the
leaves of a flower you know the way
people interact when they walk together
you know I could see all kinds of
patterns and I thought well these
patterns must emerge from somewhere I
mean took me years before I realize yeah
those patterns are actually based on
mathematical constants that that you
find in nature like the way branches
divide the way roots divides the way
your fingers grow the way you know your
arms relative to your body are very
specific ratios like all these ratios
that nature seemed to use points to a
some kind of fundamental geometry that
must be present right you know to
produce those patterns and that
intrigued me and I wanted to understand
it I wanted to know and those questions
were not the typical questions that
ten-year-old asked and so I you know I
wasn’t getting answers to some of these
questions and I was really inquisitive
brain that launched me into really kind
of examining some of the fundamental
assumptions we make about reality and to
think that there may be places where we
missed important actions that makes up
the way we write math the way we write
physics if we modify those axioms a
little bit to actually match better what
we observe in nature we would get to
different conclusions and so I explored
that and that
you know why not pursue this through a
traditional course why not pursue a PhD
with a university or something like that
because I didn’t fit in very well in the
educational system and funny enough my
father is a child psychologist that you
know was very much involved with the
director of the child psychology section
at the University of Montreal for years
he was he did his PhD under Piaget which
is the father of child psychology I was
the perfect case study case because I
just didn’t fit in well
I eventually early on had to leave the
educational system I got into the ski
industry I was a professional skier for
many years of professional climber you
know I was backcountry guide and all
this and now you know and because I love
nature and I loved being in nature all
through those years I continued pursuing
this lifelong quest to understand the
basis of reality the basis of nature I
realized when I finally you know choose
to dedicate my life fully to that
endeavor I realized that if I were to go
back to the educational system I would
have to accept very specific ways of
thinking very specific ways of thinking
about the world that I was not willing
to compromise you know I wanted to learn
but I wanted to learn in a way in which
I could make my own opinion about what
was being taught okay and I didn’t feel
like the educational the the standard
educational system was gonna allow me
that latitude that that freedom because
the the search was was mainly for
self-satisfaction that I was not even
thinking that I would ever publicize it
or you know talk about it in the public
or anything
it was from my own self-satisfaction so
I so instead I decided to study in the
pan
I used the university libraries and the
university resources that I could get to
to learn so I sold all my equipment I
let go of all my sponsorships I mean I
had rosin two fairly high levels of
proficiency in the ski industry I was
one of the top-rated skier in Canada you
know and I I let it all go and I moved
into a van and I spent five years in a
van you know traveling around mostly
staying put in desert area and mountain
areas and studying some 15 to 20 hours a
day it was very very intense seven days
a week five years non-stop to catch up
on all the physics and all the math and
all the ancient civilization that I was
studying as well and everything I needed
to study and be able to move as fast as
I could
in trying to elucidate this great
mystery to see my you know I really want
to get into what we call reality the
nature of reality I got a chance to
watch the connect Universe last night
and something that you talk about in
that documentary that you produced was
how empty our reality how space makes up
most of what we see in the observable
world is that accurate yeah exactly that
was one thing that had shocked me the
most when that was in high school before
I dropped out was that I asked I think
it was my chemistry teacher at the time
you know what is matter made of and what
is the percentage of space in matter and
I was very very much shocked to find
that the material world everything we
the chair you’re sitting on the desk
everything the walls everything is made
out of 99.99999% space and and the
things that we’re saying is not space is
not really anything like physical it’s
actually electrostatic fields that
and interacting with each other and
because they interact with each other
it appears solid to us so we call it
matter but it’s not actually stuff it’s
actually just charge or fields in the
space and so I start to think even at
the time when I was about 13 or 14 I
started to think that maybe we should
study the space
maybe the 99.999999% that makes up the
space that’s providing the energy for
the rest of stuff that we call matter
and so that was really kind of a launch
point for me I started to think maybe
space is not empty
maybe space is full full of energy okay
and you’re talking about the vacuum is
that that we were referring to yeah so
eventually in physics I realized that
the fullness of space the energy in the
vacuum was discovered almost a hundred
years ago and that space in quantum
theory in quantum field theory is not
empty at all it’s full of energy and not
a little bit full it’s extremely full of
energy so people might have a hard time
visualizing that so for the listeners
I’m gonna give you a visual you know the
space you’re in right now for instance
is full of electromagnetic field
it’s got radio waves it’s got infrared
it’s got galactic cosmic rays it has all
kinds of stuff happening in it and
because your senses are not necessarily
tuned to those frequencies you don’t
realize that there’s all this stuff
going on in the space around you or even
in the space inside you now you know
since atoms are 99.99999% space you know
like you’re made out of that space too
and you gotta remember that now if you
think about all these electromagnetic
waves that are going on in the space
around you you can imagine that there’s
higher and higher and higher and higher
frequencies where the wavelength
is getting shorter and shorter and
shorter and the energy levels are going
you know is getting higher and higher
and higher right you can imagine that so
it was found in quantum field theory
that actually you can’t get space to
stop oscillating meaning if you try to
get rid of all the electromagnetic
fluctuation and cool the area even to
absolute zero you still have oscillation
called plunk oscillations
they’re called plumb because they have
the plunk link in in wavelength and and
it’s a very very small value meaning
it’s it’s a very very high frequency if
you if you were to take a little clock
oscillator and you grew it to the size
of a grain of sand then the proton which
is teeny in the middle of an atom would
be from here to Alpha Centauri in
diameters so you can imagine it’s
happening these oscillation of the
electromagnetic field is happening in
the structure of space-time at the
quantum level that billions of times
smaller than an atom so we generally
don’t know it’s there but they were
predicted by theory a long time ago and
it’s been ignored largely because the
number is insanely large meaning the
amount of energy in the semi cube of
space because of these little
oscillations exceeds the mass of the
universe by 39 orders of magnitude it’s
it’s huge it’s the amount of energy in
space in the structure space in terms of
electromagnetic plant fluctuations is
huge but it’s critical to quantum theory
and they can’t get rid of that number
and so that really intrigued me because
it was right along the lines of what I
was thinking earlier that maybe the
space is responsible for matter not
matter defining the space
David Bohm was responsible for coining
the holographic universe right mm-hmm
okay so I was just gonna ask why is
there such a big gap in our
understanding of I mean how can we
harness this empty
that’s the thing is so the equations you
know first of all I was very intrigued
because I thought wow if we could have
the energy available in the structure of
space and and I’m gonna correct your
terminology there again you know we have
a tendency to say empty space and what
I’m telling you is that there is no such
thing so the structure of space it’s
called vacuum fluctuation or quantum
vacuum fluctuation and in physics if we
were to tap just one billionth of a
percent of what’s in a centimeter cube
of space we could run our planet for
thousands of years so it was very
appealing but more importantly what it
was leading to and eventually what it
said when I started to write the math
and write the physics and all this for
that is that all of the material world
is actually a function of that energy in
space of that information network that’s
in space you can think of every little
oscillator a little every little plunk
oscillator has a little bit of
information and that’s where it it
starts to relate to bombs idea of a
holographic universe and eventually the
holographic principle that was point by
doof and such skin which is very
accurate to describe the surface of
black holes and their energy level and
their temperature and this holographic
view has been growing quite a bit it you
might have seen on covers of magazine do
we live on in a holographic universe is
our universe a holographic projection
we’re starting to discover that the
interest maybe this information network
that’s occurring at the very fine level
at the very fine-grain of space-time so
it’s saying that Einstein was right
space-time curves but if you get really
really close to space-time if you look
at the very very small level of
space-time it’s actually not smooth by
its dragger
in little bits of information of a plant
link and so I used that I eventually you
know it took me some twenty five years
to get there you know all the complexity
of physics is it’s hard to write a
unified view of physics because you have
to study many different fields of
physics that usually don’t get studied
together you know because it takes a
lifetime to study only one so I was
fortunate that by studying independently
I could study much faster I didn’t have
any exams of function you know so I
could study much faster but eventually I
realized maybe this information
structure of space-time is the source of
what we call the material world and of
course if we understood these
mathematics if we understood these
physics it would change everything we do
everything we know in technology in the
way we interact with the world and how
we produce energy how we how we
transport ourselves you know I mean
we’re talking space drives your
teleportation I mean all these things
became possible if this was true so I
pursued it and eventually I realized
that I could write equation which led to
the holographic math solution where I
just looked at the information and how
it behaved in the structure of space and
I couldn’t output exactly the mass of
protons the mass of electrons the way
atoms produce forces and all this all
this to spell out of it and it was very
very precise and now it’s been verified
in laboratory so many questions there as
painting why is spins entry in force
mean I’ve seen you cover this several
times why spin so II to all
okay well think about it this way so
imagine that base is full of these
little plonk oscillators and we’re gonna
equate that to the water in your bath
and so you’re in your bath you’ve got
water in there and you pull the plug
okay and you have a rubber ducky right
and you have the rubber ducky on one end
of the bath far away from the plug and
it’s not doing anything
it’s just bopping along over there it
doesn’t have any coherency it’s not
doing anything you could know this for
predict you know it’s just going up and
down and and bopping but if you bring it
close to the drain all of a sudden is
gonna start orbiting right it’s gonna
start orbiting the brain because water
is going down the drain and the surface
of the water is curving and in that
region of the bath all the molecules are
spinning together comoving together
producing coherency and so that
coherency is not present on the other
side of the bath so you’re not seeing
the rubber ducky spinning you’re not
seeing the rubber ducky being attracted
to anything so you think there’s no
gravity in that region right but in the
region where all the little particles
are Co moving they’re spinning together
there you see that the rubber ducky
seems to be attracted to the center of
the orbitals right and you would say oh
there’s a gravitational force there
right there’s a mass there so imagine
the same thing in the structure of space
managing that the structure of space is
all these bits of information
oscillating and imagine that like only
in the region where they’re coherently
cool moving then you experience them as
there’s something there all of a sudden
there’s a master you’re calling it a
proton you’re calling it an atom you’re
calling it you know a star you’re
calling it a galaxy right like a galaxy
is a good example that people can
visualize
like a huge smoothie you can imagine
that the smoothie is occurring in the
structure of space itself like a
hurricane right but you’re seeing the
stuff that stuck in the hurricane that’s
stuck in in the spinning but what is
actually spinning is that field of
information in the structure of
space-time
not sure if I understand that the field
of structure of space-time you lose a
little bit more so imagine that
space-time is like a superfluid like the
water in your back right and so where
space-time is spinning like this it’s
coherent like all the bits of
information are coherently Co moving in
that region of space dare you see it as
a gravitational field you see it as like
oh yeah if I put a rubber ducky here if
I put a star here it’s gonna orbit and
it’s gonna feel like it’s being
attracted to the center of the galaxy
you see what I’m saying okay if you put
the same star in between two galaxies
you don’t see that right gravity is not
pulling on it anywhere there because
base time in that region is not orbiting
it’s not spinning it’s not coherent hmm
so where spin is present is because this
coherency in the structure of space-time
this there’s a vortex there if you’d
like that is what we call gravity so
Einstein was correct in his equation
that gravity is like the water surface
curving in your bath going towards the
drain and that’s what he described it
described as space-time as a surface
curving space-time curvature it’s called
but he didn’t describe space-time so so
eventually you didn’t realize that it’s
curving because the bits that makes up
space-time are spinning in that region
that’s what’s making it curved hmm
interesting interesting so that’s why
spin is so critical because if you
understand that all of a sudden you have
a very important key this is very very
important if this is true that means
that if you succeed in spinning
space-time you can create gravitational
fields you can create mass you can
create curvature in space-time which
means that of a sudden you can produce
space
drives or you know you can make things
that would allow us to produce
artificial gravitational field or
control gravitational field and that
would lead to a very different
civilization than the one we have today
you know we’ve evolved the level of
civilization we have today because we
eventually learned about electromagnetic
fields magnetic fields we figured out
how to interact with them how to control
them to make electricity to make
everything we see in our modern society
the next step in the human evolution I
believe very strongly is to actually
learn the more fundamentally what
gravity is and learn to control it and
then free humanity from being stuck on
only one planet you have been listening
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[Music]you