Transcript for Medicinal Mycology, Psychedelics, Kundalini Awakening, Spirituality w/ Clinton Ginn SRT

tonight is mr. Clinton again Clint is an

entrepreneur mushroom farmer and my

ecology lab tech he is the director of a

commercial spawn and research laboratory

Clint acquired his degree in psychology

from Arizona State University and he

worked as a counselor with at-risk youth

which after six years convinced him of

the futility of the current paradigm of

mental health care he went on to become

a medicinal mycologist in 2009 and has

spent more than ten years using what he

learned to ready some of the pain he

witnessed in the mental health fields

Clint it’s a pleasure welcome to hxp hi

thanks for having me it’s pleasure to be

here so Clint I mean you’ve got some

really amazing story and an amazing

beard which I’ve got on the screen that

people can see let’s I mean the world

seems like it’s in complete chaos right

now but let’s let’s talk a little bit

about your history how you got to where

you are your experience with psychology

and you know what was the turning point

for you that turned the corner and how

did you get into medicinal mycology

specifically please so my entire life

coming up as a teenager and going into

university was bent on how can I help

how can I serve and through

circumstances of different anthea epi in

genic plants and my experience is

working in the mental health field

eventually came to medicinal mycology at

the age of essentially 28 so there’s old

10 years before that of how I got to

become so dedicated to psychedelic

medicine and the mushrooms in general

okay and so what were some of the things

that you were seeing in the mental

health field with Western medicine where

you felt like okay this is this is wrong

you know what where did you how did you

feel you know how did you start

Seve that with the work that you were

doing the people that you were working

with who were you working with kids

right yeah so I ended up working with

the younger set of kids generally just

naturally having a general gentle way

about me so I was working with children

young boys is at the age of six and a

lot of these people young men came from

horrible traumatic columns and

experiences and I realized that a lot of

what we were doing was warehousing and

feeding you know pharmaceuticals in a

maintenance level thing and there’s a

lot of compassion in that and that but

if that does take a toll on you because

you ought to be making you know the

world a better place you wanted to be

making a difference in people’s lives

but you find that what the situation is

in the current paradigm is really just a

warehousing and institutionalization of

these young Souls yeah I mean there’s

something about Western medicine that is

so robotic and you know it it seems like

what Western medicine seeks to do is

treat symptoms they’re not looking at

the root causes of what is causing

mental illness or and or any of this

dysfunction you know it’s about sort of

treating the symptoms and you know

mandating it as much as possible and

then just sending you on your way until

next month

right so fundamentally we’re working on

a cognitive behavioral therapy program

where you know it’s a five star program

it’s the field as you can imagine you

get so many stars for doing X tasks and

you get you know an A and you get you

know so many goodie points but what

you’re talking about when it comes to it

an actual human being is their emotional

well-being and their their experience of

life and have found that the

pharmaceutical route and the cognitive

behavioral therapy Rob in the sense of

how it’s being implemented in these

institutional grade halfway houses or

what have you for these children is it’s

just it’s lacking and it’s really not

something to say that it’s not given

that the people that work there aren’t

don’t have hearts of gold and then the

the finest effort is being made but me

personally needed to look for something

more and the emotional trauma and how do

you heal that and how do you go back

into that that’s something that isn’t

inside the paradigm of Western medicine

that’s where you look into an Theo

botany and entheogens and essentially

the psilocybin mushroom to find how can

we go into an experience that allows you

to explore these things from the

different perspectives and potentially

have some really breakthrough healing

and that’s where what’s really been

driving me over the last 10 years all

right I love that I love that Segway

let’s get into that let’s let’s get into

mushrooms okay so you know psilocybin is

I’ve heard it being used in micro dosing

quite a bit and there are some


studies I mean I know that it creates

something called neurogenesis in the

brain so let’s let’s talk about that a

little bit I mean why did you pick

psilocybin and mushrooms specifically

why not I you asked I went on DMT why

not something else well the beauty of


is that it is a very low-cost option and

very amenable to an average person

growing their own medicine

it doesn’t emit require an admixture it

doesn’t require a laboratory also it’s

very healing and natural the compound

psilocybin and the way that it breaks

down in the body is very much close to

the actual human biochemistry so it’s

not something in the realm of a research

chemical or pharmaceutical it’s actually

something it’s just quite natural and

easy so it lends itself fairly easily to

these types of applications now the

mental health aspect or the different

things these are a little bit more

deeper contexts that we can go into

mm-hmm okay okay so let’s say you know

let’s say that I come to you and I say

hey Clint you know I’m I feel like I’d

like to explore this as an avenue that I

want to go down as far as

using psychedelics using mush

psychedelic mushrooms to help me cope

with a trauma that that I’ve had in my

life where where would we go from that

point well right now these substances

are all Schedule one and prohibited

through the war on drugs but I do work

for as a chief operating officer for a

nonprofit called pledge which does

provide sponsorship to people for people

to attend legal and safe and supportive

retreats where they can do psilocybin

assisted therapy so that’s a good place

to start is pledged org and what I would

recommend is that if you are very much

committed to doing the healing because

you can’t save a drowning person

regardless of the addiction or the

trauma or what have you

person that has to personally hit their

own rock bottom admit that they want to

do the work to do that like that’s the

thing that I mmm is the issue with all

treatments and with all mental health

applications be the pharmaceutical talk

therapy psilocybin what have you is that

the willingness of the participant to

get better and to do their own journey

of healing is absolutely paramount so if

you did come to me and you were

consistent and and really wanting to see

this through because it is not the

easiest way to go about it I think that

the limit ating limitation filter on

psilocybin assisted therapy is people’s

willingness to actually doing the work

beyond that if you are willing to come

in and do the work the trauma was so bad

the pain was so fronting the depression

the anxiety it was hitting you at such a

hard point then I would absolutely

recommend you to several the retreats

that we work with worldwide where we can

help you get into the place where you

need to be to have a supportive set and

setting with the right organic mushroom

type material for you to do not have the

experience and potentially have some

breakthrough insights okay and you know

yeah I agree I agree with you I think

it’s important

to be at a certain point where you’re

willing to do the work there’s no magic

pill or magic bullet or magic mushroom

that will you know automatically fix

things for you you know in your brain

you have to be willing to sort of go to

the gym and lift the weights you know in

your mind and so you know but but I you

know how do we how do we start to

understand the grips of trauma I mean

what is the mushroom doing that

traditional psychology that traditional

medicine Western medicine where is it

failing that the mushroom is succeeding

the how is beyond me but the what it is

and how it works in the sense of how you

experience it the human mind the human

psyche has an ability to bury Trung we

all know this and accept this this is

like essentially a scientific

psychological fact that a certain level

of trauma becomes too much for the

organism to maintain in their conscious

awareness so it’s suppressed into the

subconscious now what happens in a

psilocybin assistive therapy session

where the psilocybin activates the 5-htt

to a 5ht – hey receptors and starts to

really activate that prefrontal cortex

essentially taking psilocybin is a lot

like turning up the volume on your your

mental device from about 75 to about 95

98 I’m not gonna say it’s a hundred

because that would be essentially

approaching infinity but if it takes you

to the point of maximum awareness and a

lot of times if the sentence setting in

the context and the intention is to

approach that awareness into your own

personal evolution of who you are and

why you are sitting where you are

emotionally or addictively or life

circumstance the ability of the mind to

experience and remember and the

perspective change that that allows it’s

kind of like viewing your life from a

hundred feet up or a thousand feet up


balloon and saying there’s a level of

things that I hadn’t seen before and so

oftentimes people have traumatic

memories that you know they repress that

come back up and then they’re able to

look at them at the same time that same

perspective allows you to look at the

perpetrator or the situation or whatever

you are in and realize that that was

also those people working on that same

level so it has this wonderful ability

of giving you the perspective to say

there’s not so much blame and anger

there either there’s just a situation

that happened and then there’s the

healing that needs to happen in response

and that’s the next stage of it when you

come out of the therapy when you’re done

with the afterglow because psilocybin

and the psychedelics are one of the most

potent denta anti-inflammatories known

to science so a lot of the afterglow a

lot of the positive effects that are

experienced in the realms of depression

and mood altering things are the

anti-inflammatory compounds so if you

imagine your inflammation response being

brought down to close to zero the

feelings are amazing particularly for

older individuals like myself I mean I’m

not too old I’m 40 but I do deal with

chronic inflammatory conditions and so

the feeling of being 1415 physically and

that afterglow well that feels wonderful

but that does fade and so what then is

left is the psychological care is the

mental health aspect is what we call

integration psychedelic integration okay

that’s that’s fascinating so it so

there’s a process of making the

experience somewhat neutral in the mind

but also there is an aspect of kind of

opening a closet door where we buried

our trauma and then turning on the light

and maybe taking out one piece of trauma

at a time so that you can look at it

from you know 360 degrees 100 feet up

and you’re examining it in a way that

you know is is a way that you can

process more clearly better in a higher

perspective maybe so that you’re not

taking on this victim role you know this

happened to me and you know poor me kind

of thing sure you know therapies like

the Maps protocol on the MDMA do a

really good strong response on the

amygdala to remove fear response for

particularly things like PTSD but I feel

and it’s been my experience that also

psilocybin and these other hallucinogens

ayahuasca LSD you name it these classic

ones can also be effective in similar

roles as far as getting different

perspective getting a higher perspective

so yeah okay so I mean there’s there’s

five that I know about on the planet

that are capable of neurogenesis and

amongst other things that happen within

the synapses in the brain there’s

there’s a osku LSD i boga psilocybin I’m

not sure if I’m missing DMT ayahuasca

same I mean pretty much the same thing

I’m not sure if I’m missing one in there

somewhere but there’s only a few of

these compounds that exist on the planet

I mean I’m not sure I mean you’ve

probably heard of this before but in the

1990s you know there was just campaigns

just say no to drugs and as you know the

war on drugs abject failure and there

was these scientists these neuro

scientists are pitching this idea of the

brain being this static thing that once

you eliminated you know these brain

cells gray matter whatever once you

killed these neuro transmitters they

would never go back you know it was very

scary phenomena there is I don’t know if

you remember the commercials like there

they had this chick with cooking eggs

she’s like slamming the oven I don’t

know if you remember that I had police

officers in my classroom you know with

the DARE program and all of that

screaming us you know wearing their full

gear with you know weapons and it’s very

intimidating and it’s it’s very

inappropriate to have

an armed officer in your classroom I

don’t care what the context is but yes

absolutely the complete opposite is

actually actually true in that

psilocybin mushrooms plus these other

compounds ayahuasca not to denigrate or

take away from any of them but

particularly psilocybin because it is so

natural and goes through the system in

such a clear way it’s very similar to

DMT in ayahuasca is also a dying novel

tryptamine no carrying the thing so it

does stimulate neurogenesis and then

there is the Stamets tak which is a you

know a catchphrase that is catched on

because her aciem and these Lions Mane’s

type mushrooms also have these nerve

growth factors so you can do certain


mushroom stacks and adaptogens to

actually stimulate neurogenesis which is

growing of your brain and and the

different nerve cells and this is

treating things even into things like MS

and people that are having nerve growth

problems throughout their entire body so

yes this is absolutely a revelation that

is happening over the last couple years

and thank God for it so I took my hat to

all of the institutions that have been

doing their work at John Hopkins and why

you you know UCLA at AG nauseam yeah

because they have definitely shown us

unequivocally with functional MRIs and

what-have-you the to the general

population that yes this does work these

things that people have been talking

about in the realms of creativity in the

realms of micro dosing and you know

creativity and business ideas like in

the realms like Apple and jobs in

Silicon Valley now we have the

scientific fact and protocol to back

that up and so it’s on the onus of the

producers of these materials these

things to produce a good product and so

we’re just getting into that we’re just

exploring that space right now as we

speak yeah I mean this this has become

sort of an echo

on this show is because I believe so

much in psychedelic medicine that you

know I bring on guests after guests that

preaches this at this point and you know

we’ve had Rick Doblin on the show Rick

Strassman we’ve had all these people on

the show and you know rick has as you

know I mean he’s got a really

fascinating story where he was down at

New College in Florida and he said

regardless of you know what the law says

or regardless of what happens to us we

are going to do this work we’re going to

make sure that this work happens and

that humanity has access to this so you

know in my own personal belief I feel

that you know psychedelics are not for

everyone I mean I don’t think any

everyone should just be doing it and

going out and looking for this as a

cure-all as I said and let’s I think we

should clarify this I think that you

know I think the correct setting having

you know a licensed therapist with you

is so crucial to this process being in

the right setting and around the right

people that know how to hold that space

for you is so important yes

that’s been one of the most beautiful

revelations that’s happened in the last

I’d say really only the last two or

three years has been they focus on

having someone there with you who’s

either experienced or has the right

ability to deal with the situation an

absolutely experience is is a

prerequisite so the thing that I work on

is on the people’s aspect the people’s

healing movement I call it the right to

heal movement I say when we’re talking

about plant medicines be they fungal or

ayahuasca or what have you this these

are natural compounds that the earth is

freely provided for the legal structure

to have put them in the category of

verboten and prohibited is absolutely

insane so the decriminalized nature

movement is something I am a thousand

percent high

the decriminalized Denver situation

really was a nuclear explosion that

rounded throughout the universe it was

such a massive breakthrough so my hats

are off to all of the people involved

with that and they are building upon

that but we can come back to that the

issue is that these things are natural

and something that as Terence Mckenna

would say are something that has been in

our diet for as long as humans have been

on this planet and it’s something that

really when you talk into micro dosing

when you talk into the psychedelic

experience of going deeper and as we

know as being experienced there are

different levels of how you can use this

so the lab coat medicalization model of

psychedelic therapy is absolutely

beautiful and warranted and they are

paving the road for the regular human

common person to have access but what I

and others are very much considered

concerned with is the ability for people

to have low-cost access to you know I’m

not going to name prices or get into it

but essentially what we’re talking about

is a generational healing that is a

potential in that that has ripple

effects that can go beyond what we could

even imagine

so if you look at the generational

trauma you know Gavin mate’ who I

believe you’ve had on your show Zoomers

times yeah has been wonderfully

expounding that the relationships of

emotional trauma and how that compounds

generationally and transforms into

addictions and maladaptive behaviors and

so well we have to do I

I strongly believe is allow people to

get into the emotional trauma healing

space and the only way to do that that

I’ve experienced and I’ve been doing

this for 20 years I’ve been looking I’ve

been searching of them doing what I can

is through the entheogens and it’s right

there it’s right there and it’s free

nature provides it lovingly and

beautifully it does need to be curated

as much as I am for people having open

access and then living their lives and

going to festivals and enjoying

themselves that’s absolutely a part of

the beautiful existence that we live

there is a therapeutic aspect where it

does need to be tightly controlled and

if do and so as much as we need licensed

social workers and PhDs to be working

with the hardest of the hard cases we

also need open access to where people

can go where people have that right

vision I mean there is not a degree

problem I know that they do exist and

they are being built right now but this

is a paradigm that is a people’s healing

movement and so if you have a

quote-unquote grandmotherly way about

you and you are able to deal and process

and sit with someone then you are

qualified to be doing psilocybin

assisted therapy to a certain degree

with a certain amount of training with a

short amount of experience yeah I mean

there was a guest that we had on the

show and he he I mean he one of his

quotes is as as long as nature is

illegal humans will never be free I

could not agree more than that Clinton I

want to switch gears a little bit I mean

in the in the title for this show I put

community awakening I I want to talk

about this because in my in Mike onik

personal experience this is something

that I I would say suffered from I think

you would have a different perspective

but you know I did have a spontaneous

Kundalini awakening in my 20s I’m in my

30s now and so I mean it was it was it

changed the trajectory of my life

forever I mean I can feel it now sort of

resonating in my back and I mean it

opened these channels that I never even

knew really existed I was just you know

sort of meditating quite a bit and so

this is something that you list

like sort of in your bio it’s a feature

it’s listed there so I wanna I want to

cover it you know I want to cover

Kundalini you have a different

perspective right so what you know why

don’t you tell us when you share about

your perspective on Kundalini yeah thank

you I mean it’s something that happened

to me when I was 23 years old I am 39

now so this was something that I have

lived with and moved through and Beyond

but I wouldn’t say that it was a

negative experience at all so I was

absolutely looking for a Kundalini

awakening I had only been studying yoga

and meditation for about four to six

months when it happened so there are

certain hacks and things that you can do

to create this process and I’m more than

happy to talk about that personally

maybe not something that I want to

broadcast online but the experience

itself as far as raising your kundalini

energy through your crown chakra and and

dispelling all disbelief that you

possibly had about the potential of this

human experience is something that I

would never give back regardless of

whatever else happened so you know to be

fair I felt like a flower blooming in

the desert because as it as a matter of

fact this occurred in a strip mall in

Mesa Arizona which is the East Valley

Phoenix which is essentially a strip

mall at the strip mall it’s dusty and

it’s hot and it’s not exactly like the

most aesthetic little beatific

mountainside that you would imagine this

happening so when I looked around and I

looked to my community there was no

community and to be fair that was my own

experience and there are people in

Phoenix and there are people that hold

this that space and that have that

experience but when I was there and when

that happened I would I felt very much

alone and so it was very scary

and given that I was born in a Western

philosophical context in the sense of

the judeo-christian religion I did go

through a sense of megalomania I thought

like well well here we are this is

enlightenment and I guess I’m like you

know the neck the noon coming which was

hilarious you know in retrospect but for

about a couple weeks there I really had

to deal with grapple with that and so

that brings me to you know where I come

at this point at the age of almost forty

looking at the teachings of Alan Watts

or around us or Krishnamurti are all

these beautiful teachers that are all

available to us at any time to say yeah

well actually that happens quite a bit I

mean quite a bit meaning probably less

than 1% of the average population but it

what my message in my experience is that

it’s actually quite easy and it’s it’s

quite a beautiful experience that anyone

should have so I mean feel free to give

me some feedback on that to have your

experience because you know there are a

lot of details and intricacies so I’ll

I’ll lead out from Seco

I mean I do my best to not make the show

about me but I mean I’ll share this

story which I wouldn’t ever think to

share you know in a live broadcast but

for me I was just meditating you know

very very heavily just asking really big

questions like why are we here is there

a god what happens when we die just

meditating every single day you know

sometimes I would come home from class

and just met go into my room and

meditate meditate meditate every single

day I did this and I remember one day I

was I was I was living at my parents

place at the time and I was walking into

my bedroom and I my whole body just

locked up like it was just completely

locked up and I fell and luckily my bed

was right there to my left and I and I

fell to my left and when I hit the bed I

shot out of my body like

completely out of my body and I’m sort I

start feeling this like sort of like I’m

going up you know and I mean I’m this

sort of newb I’ve never studied this I

had never heard the term Kundalini

before I didn’t even know what that was

so to me I’m like losing my mind you

know while this is happening and as as

I’m sort of ascending I mean that’s what

was happening I was feeling this rising

sensation I’m seeing these little

bubbles all around me and I recognized

them as my other incarnations and

they’re telling me you know

congratulations welcome and above me I

see this larger sort of bubble this

higher self bubble I guess and and I

eventually sort of rise all the way up

until I merge into the bubble and it

starts showing me these different

visions I’m seeing like this geometry in

my mind and it was bananas in my

experience and one of the things that it

showed me it was odd we won’t go there

but you know for me it was it was pretty

traumatizing just because I didn’t know

how to process any of that and you know

there was no literature online at the

time there was nothing I didn’t have any

frame of reference of okay like this is

what happened to you so this is what you

should look for I just thought I was

going insane

so you know it took me a long time just

to get to a point where I understood

what was going on and you know so it it

I think you know I meet a lot of people

in my line of work and just running this

show and I think maybe I’ve met you know

11 or 12 people not even that that say

that they you know their Kundalini is

awake and they have had a you know

either spontaneous or purposeful

awakening yeah Wow

that’s beautiful

and yes it is quite rare and that is the

question that I’ve always asked myself

is that if it’s so spontaneous and for

me I wouldn’t say I mean easy is such a

catch-all phrase I had started

meditating at the age of 13 under to the

direction of my stepfather and he had a

guru and I was listening to the Grateful

Dead at the age of 8 so that a huge

influence I joke but you know I had

prepared myself and always looked in

that realm of way things would go and I

read autobiography of a yogi’ and that

influenced me as a young man and all

these things but what I realized was

that the the paradigm is supreme effort

with ultimate release and you can do the

yoga I mean for instance I was

practicing Kundalini Yoga which was

brought to the US by yogi bhajan yogi

bhajan and he came to America under

death threats from the people that he

essentially quote-unquote stole these


kriyas and or practices from to bring

them to the United States and so when I

actually raised my Kundalini using the

set and the setting and the indoctrinate

indoctrination the the instructions of

this yoga it was quite alarming to me

because again I had grown up in a

judeo-christian mindset where this is

not actually something that we deal with

because in the way that is talked

biblically currently in the realm of

modern Christianity in America is that

Jesus is pedestal eyes and that these

types of experiences are not really for

the common human so that’s why the

experience immediately catapulted me

into a sense of megalomania rather than

into a sense of in the Eastern tradition

of saying yes congratulations welcome to

the team

right as something along the lines of

what Alan Watts would say so my

experience in the sense was very much

along the lines of Alex gray in when I

pulled my Kundalini you know

purposefully meditatively through my

crown chakra I got to follow it it came

up through each one on my chakras it’s

at sat in my heart for a long time and

had to work with all kinds of problems

in their itch which continues to this

day and we could talk about that because

I feel that psilocybin is absolutely

something that is a heart opener that is

something that is absolutely required

for us to move forward but I did bring

it up my crown chakra and through all of

the central channels through my third

eye and then it raised up through the

front of my head and up through the top

of my head and into a basically a

beatific geometric vision of a bunch of

orange and yellow colored eyeballs and

this was this is a closed eye vision to

which I completely at that moment stop

the process so I do not continue and go

off into Samadhi or into some Satori

realms I’d rather just opened the gate

and looked inside and as a skittish

young man with no ones no concept

basically shut the door but that has

lived with me and I have to continue to

develop that relationship for the last

you know 15 plus years huh Wow

amazing amazing story I you know I would

just say for anyone listening to this I

do not recommend purposely awakening

your Kundalini until you turn 50 or 60

years old just wait you have to learn to

become enlightened there’s no rush

you don’t need to run and chase that it

ends wakening your Kundalini will not

bring you closer to that so yeah so

that’s like let me just love that topic

like spiritual bypass spiritual

materialism right so as a 23 year old

and I’m sure

you’re young men as well like it doesn’t

necessarily serve you if you don’t have

the integration it’s a lot like

psilocybin and sister therapy you can

have these peak experiences but what you

really need to do is be a good person

and make sure your garbage gets taken

out on time and your bills are paid and

then you show up to work and then you’re

friendly and because that’s the day to

day life and that is the spiritual life

like ultimately they’re all one in the

same but it absolutely is and contradict

you I would say it is absolutely

critical critical in to that you do have

those experiences that you do realize

that there is a higher perspective

because otherwise you’re going with the

mainstream ideation of what life is

without any actual perception of the

other realms and so does it matter that

you’ve had that like no you shouldn’t be

walking around with this chip on your


you shouldn’t be at the age I if I was

to go found an ashram at the age of 24

following that I would have been a

complete massive and ridiculous I would

have you know fallen into the traps that

so many spiritual teachers have have

done where they have harems and Rolls

Royces and all kinds of different

profiles and weird things I mean that’s

absolutely not what you should be doing

but creating perspective you know

looking at the different variations of

what your consciousness can be and where

you can hold it and where you can be

looking at life it’s absolutely

necessary and critically necessary to

what is ailing us in the modern context

I mean let’s get let’s connect it

together let’s connect the dots together

a bit how do you find that the

psilocybin effects your spiritual

process and the Kundalini itself

so the Kundalini is the spiritual energy

of the body

it’s a spiritual energy of the soul and

these are all words that don’t really

mean much but it is a real it’s a

realistic energy and it does have a

vibration it feels like an electric

current the the mushrooms and things do

a certain D filter ization of the mind

the default mode network they open you

up to the possibility of perceiving Li

smoke these energies that are constantly

already flowing through your body so in

conjunction yes this to my mind in some

kind of kung-fu ancient history path

mountaintop experience fantasy is where

you have your sweepingly ashram and you

are learning the yoga and you’re

learning the crias and you’re learning

the ancient ways and the the the Tai Chi

and the different ways of moving

energies and the modalities the final

final task is to take an entheogen

be it a mushroom or something along

those lines because it becomes this

complete activator it causes and this

enzyme to your ego that allows you to

see the energies that you’ve been

cultivating this whole life and so the

discipline becomes part of how you have

to work with this and this is where we

come into the problems of the 60s is

that in their mindset these things these

compounds were not illegal I mean

absolutely they were fully legal this

was we had made it

we’ve been practicing yoga we’ve

realized these things now we’ve got

these compounds we are going to be a

spacefaring race we are going to end all

war and poverty all we have to do is

climb onto these things but there was no

discipline and so what you’re seeing now

literally 50 60 years later is the

maturation where it says perhaps we have

forgotten how to deal with things things

but there is a discipline that is

required absolutely required because you

mind Unleashed can be a beatific or

hellacious thing to deal with

okay okay I mean I I know I know my

audience and so I just want to say I

just want to say for anyone out there

listening to this and thinking you know

you’re gonna combine psilocybin and then

try to have a Kundalini awakening

there’s an old saying you know that I

want to repeat to you there’s an old

Buddhist saying and it goes something

like before enlightenment chop wood

carry water after enlightenment chop

wood carry water I mean it it’s hold so

true but you know I sorry

so the gate was Kate yeah absolutely so

I mean Clint you know your work with

these two things I think are so huge I

mean here you’re dealing with I mean I

guess you I mean I guess maybe your

answer would be is that they’re not so

different you know they’re they’re one

of the same yeah they they collaborate

and that’s something that I’ve been

looking there’s a synergy there there’s

a synergy to spiritual evolution and

there’s a synergy with anti entheogenic

plants and there’s a synergy with the

human experience and the plan to

experience the fungal experience that

can be created I mean everyone from for

the last few years and I hesitate to get

into this but they have spoken that

psilocybin has a voice and there is a

communication that encouraged in that

space and so we are talking about

synergies and we are talking about

discipline and guidance and how do you

use these things in in a social context

that is beneficial right because one

thing that the sixties taught us is that

you can throw a compound like LSD into

the mix and it will almost completely

obliterate the standards of what was you

know conservatively progressing now what

we’re looking at here

in essentially the third wave of

psychedelic revolution is you know a

maturation how does it how does it bind

into how does it collaborate how does it

coalesce into and not to be careful to

bring it into a macro capitalist model

of feel-good and don’t worry about the

future right we don’t lock that Huxley

in the future but what we do want is the

people’s version of healing recognizing

the trauma and using these compounds and

the disciplines of alternative medicine

into something that’s really integrated

into a holistic lifestyle yeah okay I

mean it’s definitely an interesting

perspective and you know I think I think

some purists would say you know you

either have cannellini or you have

psychedelics but you don’t mix the two

you know and and so it’s it’s

interesting to hear you know a

combination of those two things and

especially since this is your profession

and this is what you do especially in

regards to healing trauma and and

working with people who are seeking to

heal trauma so Clint we’ve got about 17

minutes give or take I mean the world is

in pandemonium it seems it there’s it’s

so chaotic

everyone is operating on fear and you

know I I just is there a way we can wrap

this together this conversation this

beautiful conversation we’ve had is

there a way that we can wrap this

together somehow to those people that

are listening to us tonight right now

and you know something that we can offer

to them in the midst of what looks like

the beginning of something that is going

to change our society for a very very

long time

well obviously if speaking about the

current pandemic of the coronavirus and

you know these things are going to

happen there was the SARS outbreak in

2003 and it seems to be escalating one

of the things that seems to be effective

is you know for boosting the immune

system is medicinal mushrooms and that’s

something that I’ve been working my

entire life on our entire life but it

feels like such for the last 10 years so

not necessarily the psilocybin mushrooms

or any of those classic psychedelics and

getting a totally away from that but

rather boosting the human immune system

through the natural pharmaceutical

factories that are sitio Corpse

medicinal mushrooms

you mean like lion’s mane and stuff like

that yes reishi chaga even something as

simple as shiitake I mean you can buy

shiitake at your local market and it has

some of the most immune stimulating

boosting compounds there we are working

with I was working with a company

recently and we were having amazing

results just dealing with shiitake as

far as battling cancer as far as immune

response and all these things and if you

go to Japan or China these places

particularly Japan they will treat you

with any kind of immunological or cancer

disease particularly first and foremost

with these compounds that are

pharmaceutically extracted from

medicinal mushrooms so we in the West in

America and in Europe have a lot to

learn from the medicinal mushroom aspect

so traditional Chinese medicine has

brought us to that there’s a lot of

aspects of traditional Chinese medicine

that we probably should let go of and as

far as poaching in these different

aspects but clearly the realm of

mycology which is its own Kingdom I mean

to call me a mycologist it’s like call

me a botanist is to say there’s someone

who studies plants we have a a complete

Kingdom of things that needs to be

explored and they

absolutely a wealth of young mycologists

that are burgeoning in north america

with entrepreneurial businesses with

creating realistic medicines and

extractions that you should look into I

mean if in your local area I can almost

guarantee you there’s someone struggling

to bring you the best medicine that the

Mushroom Kingdom can provide so look at

I didn’t encourage your listeners to

look into you know what’s locally

sourced what’s grown organically there’s

something beautiful about the way that

these exotic mushrooms and medicinal

mushrooms are grown the requires the

highest standards so you guess these

young people who are working out of

greenhouses and sheds can’t access

exactly afford organic certification and

all of these things but the mushroom

make sure that you provide that or it

will not grow so a lot of times what

you’re getting at your local farmers

market is the best medicine you could

possibly take for any type of virus

bacterial issue that you could actually

think very nice very nice so is there a

specific stack or different species that

you would recommend to the listeners

like that they can order no actually I’m

not gonna go there you know

I’d advise everyone to do their own due

diligence there is a particular

compounds and things in the fungal

medicine I’d say the freshest the best

so go to your local farmers market if

you’re worried about coronavirus what

are you look like a farmers market bison

lions maybe some shiitake some reishi or

some local teen chosen and find it

online most that the people that are

genuinely interested in my ecology

because it is a tiny tiny field are

people that are completely invested in

heart and mind into producing really

good medicines if you go into the larger

higher name stacks and things a lot of

this is brought in from China and a lot

of this is done and on industrial scale

and not to say that it’s not valid I

mean if if your only option is to go

into Whole Foods or sprouts or what have

you any your local stores and get what’s

on the shelf you know that’s going to

serve you

I absolutely believe it will serve you

but know that it was only to be taken

under certain conditions in the sense of

you wanting to actually excite your

immune system and potentially not

something you want to be taking every

day I love that love that answer

shop locally organically it’s it’s the

best way to go especially now and you

know this special you’re exactly with

Sarge yeah no no absolutely I mean if

we’re supposed to be staying luckily and

and not inviting all of those things

from overseas then exactly I mean yeah

so let’s let’s talk a little bit about

pledge and hi because I love the hive

defense fund I would like you to just

tell us more about that please yeah so

the hive Defense Fund is a soon-to-be

nonprofit essentially what it stands

right now is this an open association of

Concerned individuals inside the right

to heal plant medicine psychedelic

Renaissance community so that’s a big

net but it’s what I want to talk about

when it comes to the hive is that we

need to have the education and the

backbone to stand behind our

practitioners who are actually working

in the healing capacity with these

medicines and there are other funds and

organizations such as ICS or the

ayahuasca Defense Fund that work

specifically with ayahuasca and they’ve

had several if not into the hundreds of

cases of persecution for their

practitioners so looking at the other

medicines particularly mushrooms in the

United States if there are people that

are working for the healing aspect then

we want to support them because my

experience I’ve had some legal issues is

that you know pretty much everyone in

America doesn’t want anything to do with


you become a ten-foot pole type person

and so I’ve created the hive to say

let’s protect the community let’s serve

the people that are serving the people

and make sure that

if they do get indicated in you know and

if it’s legitimate I’m not interested in

supporting people that are dealing meth

or heroin or these other compounds only

plant medicines then we’re gonna be

there to support you

legally explain to the prosecution

exactly why we’re happening in and in

the realm of these messages being put

out on 60 minutes and thank God for John

Hopkins for all the beautiful things

there is a lot of traction there with

people they realized that the opioid

epidemic and the meth epidemic and these

things are problems I work with sheriff

in los horsemen on this task in lawyers

and they are very much pleased to have

us on board in the sense of just a sober

straight education of of what is going

on here in the streets they all know

that psilocybin mushrooms or LSD are not

the cause of these social issues these

are actually things under the right

proper set and setting in context or

actually working against them to make

their lives better so that’s essentially

the mission of what the HDF stands for

the hive defense fund I love it I love

it I really truly hope you all the

success in the world for what you’re

doing I think it’s so so needed i I

think it’s I mean it feels like it’s in

the early stages but I feel like as

things evolve and people are waking up

people are waking up to the truth of

what’s going on around them they’re

waking up to the idea that Western

medicine has failed them completely and

you know shows like this and and

hopefully you get more exposure with the

work that you’re doing and we can bring

more awareness into this field and it’s

no longer I mean places like Oakland in

California have legalized you know

anything that’s plant related including

solid psilocybin so why not everywhere

what I mean why are we so why is the

system so archaic and why are we

punishing people that are growing plants

I mean what it makes no sense whatsoever

right so the the decriminalize nature

movement is pushing forward there based


decriminalised Denver and decriminalized

nature’s run in all the plants and they

are essentially saying that same thing

is that realistically the the impetus of

all of this is the right to heal and so

it’s just a paradigm shift as I say

there’s a liminal period and that’s what

the HDF serves is that there is going to

be a time where the public consciousness

moves into the new paradigm yet the

institutions are still working that and

we are living hopefully my my prayer

sincerely is that we are living on the

shoulder of the drug war and then we can

get into more of a treatment style

paradigm and I don’t support any type of

narcotics situations or any of those

things I think it’s deplorable and

horrible but I recognize as a mental

health practitioner that the drug lords

are not the problem is the traumatized

children that are the problem and we

need to help them first and foremost to

you know heal what is going on what that

need to remove reality from so the

psychedelic compounds truthfully in my

experience cold-heartedly

our anti-drug position they fulfill the

neurotransmitters in a way they put they

positively put into those receptors

without the dopant dopaminergic effects

and all these addictive behaviors and

they can do wonders micro dosing macro

dosing the cognitive behavioral therapy

the talk therapy that exists after the

fact is is absolutely nothing short of

revolutionary to what we can be doing so

that’s actually a huge threat to the

current paradigm pharmaceutical and

provide in things so it’s going to be a

long long journey and so that’s why when

I talk to people in the mint when I talk

to yourself and I very much appreciate

you taking the time to speak with me is

that we need to have even though there’s

been this gigantic leap out of the gate

we need to build on that and we need you

to have continued to have a khole

collaborative 20

30 year effect because this is something

that is absolutely transformational for

the entire humanity I mean there’s

nothing that I could say that would be I

could put my 100% you know heart behind

besides that is that this is what it is

this was a when they you know dropped

the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima and then

we’re doing all these tests you know

that’s when they discovered the mushroom

in the 50s that was at the height of the

Cold War’s all of this things so there

is this certain mentality that these

entheogens have come through to suppress

the dominator culture to let us

experience ourselves to let us heal from

some of the generational trauma from

World War well you know over one World

War two I myself am a descendant of

World War two veterans and I have gone

into psilocybin assisted therapy

sessions where I’ve expressly

experienced that actual connection and

the reasons of why I’m addicted to

alcohol or nicotine or these certain

variations of my personal problems so I

don’t claim sainthood I don’t claim

spiritual materialism activating my

Kundalini was part of the process for me

to become a person who found freedom and

then turn that freedom into service and

so service without freedom is slavery

right so get to a point of freedom and I

would tell you it’s like a peak it’s

like when you jump out of a rock you

know I don’t know you jump up into this

complete stall right and you’re just

going straight up in a rocket you feel

alternate freedom the next thought that

hits you is service as you as you we you

know bring yourself back into what it is

that you are here to do let me let me

let’s expand on that a little bit I want

to ask you just cuz you opened a new

thread there I don’t want to leave it

that it what do you mean I mean by

freedom like you you mean this inner

sense of freedom that you feel within

yourself or what do you mean by that

yeah I mean I think a lot of us work

inside of freedom concepts and there’s

emotional freedom there’s financial

freedom there’s all these things the

sense of freedom is different for

everyone but for me the personal

experience of evolution of going through

spiritual evolution has been a focus on

freedom I mean that’s always been my

Drive was why is this pain so so vibrant

for me or why is the do I feel oppressed

in this way and if I could just be free

from that then I would be able to decide

a different path and my own experience

is that when I did achieve that freedom

the first thing I wanted to do is turn

around and provide service

so maybe I’m repeating myself but I

think its individual okay all right um

Clint I mean I love this conversation is

is there is there something that we

should have covered something that I

should have asked you about that I

didn’t ask you about that you’d like to

talk about tonight no I mean this has

been wonderful and I hope that I haven’t

been too rambly with you know I don’t

know I think when we’re talking about

plant medicine and the psychedelic

Renaissance let’s one thing that I have

been contemplating is the role that

psychedelics have played in all of these

traditional movements from the 60s

forward so if you’re talking about civil

rights movement the LGBTQ movement

environmentalism the anti-war

I question whether or not there hasn’t

been some entheogenic presence in all of

those movements in that level of

awareness and I don’t want to like go to

go to the stake on that one per se but I

think that it’s time for the psychedelic

plants to be you know liberated to be

decriminalize to allow people to heal

and that the dominator culture that has

come across the crossed oceans and

continents to be here has found the

backboard in the mountains of central

Mexico and the jungles of Peru on the

new world of these psychedelic compounds

and say hey let’s turn around let’s push

back let’s give back let’s create a more

collaborative incorporating you know

beatific world Clint what a conversation

this was amazing I loved it loved your

words I love the the warmness in your

voice I love your beard at love what

you’re doing where can people find your

work where can people go to find out

more about hive the Defense Fund how can

people find pledge how can people find

out more about what you’re doing yeah so

first and foremost go to pledge done or

check out what we’re doing consider

donating consider applying get in

contact with us we really are in a

building stage of building a new

paradigm for psychedelic assisted

therapy which is inclusive and provides

access an ongoing holistic integration

into the whole thing so we’re looking at

the larger paradigm and we want to build

that so yes also hive defense fund it is

my own personal category you can read

about me you can read about people like

William Leonard Picard

is providing amazing

authorship and potentially life-changing

compounds depending on your perspective

and other things and people that we are

supporting so if you want to get behind

people that are supporting their First

Amendment rights there’s their rights to

heal people that are really working on

that we’d love your support and hear

from you and we’re looking to build team

and all this stuff is just as we go we

are putting one step in front of the

other because this is a brand new

paradigm not that it hasn’t been

building for 50 years but the the

floodgates are open so thank you for the

opportunity to share the message with

you xavier and it’s been a wonderful


perfect friends you here to hurt here

first I mean this if you feel passionate

about this this is definitely where you

need to go to get involved especially if

you connect with you know what Clinton

is saying and and psychedelic medicine

and I really think those are a couple

different avenues that you can go down

and you know lend yourself to service if

that is the direction that you want to

go but thank you guys so much for

listening I know we took a week off

there was some personal stuff that I was

dealing with but we’re we’re back we got

there’s an amazing show next week with

Richard Hoagland that I’m really looking

forward to so don’t bite the hype with

the coronavirus don’t bite into the fear

so much and thank you guys so much for

listening and being part of this show I

really appreciate each and every one of

you goodnight

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