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stranger thank you for listening
[Music]Xavier katana here with the human
experience guys wow what an absolutely
profound magical game-changing episode
we have here with mastery Geoffrey
Rothman Geoffrey was the president of
EDD in the United States from the early
1990s to 2005 he was also instrumental
in spearheading the legislation in the
Supreme Court case granting us the
freedom to drink rasca otherwise known
as ayahuasca I want to sincerely thank
Geoffrey for not only lending me his
time but trusting me with doing this
episode and giving hxp the exclusive you
will not hear this anywhere else he was
asked by time ABC NBC Larry King and
other major networks to do an interview
and he trusted us for human experience
with this recording I must also thank a
very good friend of mine who was
instrumental in setting this episode up
I’m certain he will be listening if
you’re interested in communing with the
divine with connecting with divine
intelligence realigning with your
purpose your bones spiritual evolution
and if you’re interested in learning
about using these plant medicine
from healing us to connecting us back to
the source before the modern advent of
pharmacology and chemical substances was
the plant realm Tamils access this true
medicine is one of the greatest gifts we
as human beings experiencing life on
this planet have so I’m beyond thankful
and grateful to have had the opportunity
to speak with Geoffrey one-on-one to
really dig into the story of what
happens to him during the DEA raid on
Jeffrey’s property in this episode we
lay out that story in detail this
episode was seamless and there’s a very
potent wise lucid understanding that
comes with Geoffrey’s words which I’m
certain that you will pick up on if you
enjoy this episode help us cover server
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the human XP guys as always thank you so
much for listening this episode makes my
job 100% worth it thank you guys the
human experience is in session my guest
today is mr. Jeffrey Bronfman Jeffrey my
good sir it’s an honor thank you so much
for being here thank you for the
privilege of communicating with you and
through this conversation reaching out
to others so Jeffrey we we were talking
about the UTV today I before we get to
that I would like to do TV in the
Supreme Court legislation I would like
to
I’d like to know a little bit more about
who you are for anyone listening that
might not know who who you are can you
just tell us briefly about yourself and
your background please sure I was born
in a Jewish family both of my father of
my mother’s side in Canada and I was
influenced in my youth from the sense of
being part of a people with a long
history going back thousands of years
and the sense of culture and identity
that comes from that and as I grew up I
that there was more of a sense of a
universal understanding about myself and
my path and my what it means to be human
and I began a search that led me to many
different cultural traditions really in
it began with with teachings from from
India’s I think it began for for many
people and then I started to appreciate
the wisdom traditions from the this
hemisphere in in terms of the native
populations and Central and South
America and studying within different
indigenous and shamanic traditions and
appreciating the awareness that they had
about the nature of the human experience
and the nature of our consciousness and
and what the responsibilities of being
human were and how to care for our
community the land our families and I
came aware that within the wisdom
traditions of the Americas there were
traditions that were based on the use of
sacred plants and plants that could
assist us in communing more fully with
the natural world and gain a greater
inside an understanding of ourselves and
so that began a process for me of
learning more about that dimension of
the human experience and that’s what
ultimately brought me over a period of
years to where I encountered the the
tradition that I follow today which we
speak of as the UDV the wing of the
bishop tile working with the sacred
plants of the Amazon yeah intriguing so
so therefore you you first became
interested in
the UDV in 1990 when you went into the
Amazon to create a conservation preserve
that correct that’s correct
and but let’s I mean that’s it let’s
fast forward a bit and when you embrace
the religion 1990 to 1999 a shipment of
the tea was seized this was the the
foundation for the legal battle that
subsequently followed what happened in
1999 and what was what was the trigger
event that that led to the tea being
seized and and what was your reaction to
that well some of these things I think
happened within a mystery and and their
dimensions are that I’m not sure that
we’ll ever really know fully how and why
and and the mystery of how it happened I
I established the UDV in the United
States after my first trips to Brazil in
in the early 1990s I established it in
1993 and we had been organized and were
realizing ceremonies over a period of
years when knowing that eventually there
would likely be some questioning on the
part of the government of the United
States with respect to what we were
doing because it was somewhat unusual
and and because we were aware of the
fact that what the the tea that we were
utilizing is a central sacrament of our
religious practice of our spiritual work
if chemically analyzed could be found to
contain what would be considered a
controlled substance
there are alkaloids or products of
natural origin with enmity that when
synthesized can be utilized in ways that
the Drug Enforcement Administration in
the United States and the laws of the
United States could understandably have
some questions about and so while we
felt that what we were doing was
protected constitutionally and was
protected under the principles of basic
human rights of freedom of religion we
recognized that it was an unusual
practice and was not common in in the
modern world for people to actively be
coming together in a rich
setting and and drinking a sacrament
that had a psychoactive effect a way of
enhancing our consciousness and our
awareness so I new freely from the very
beginning that there would come a point
where there would be some question
possibly that could be raised about this
practice and then the way the BET
question came was in an unexpectedly
strong form where I was as you indicated
prepared to receive the shipment of our
sacrament that was being shipped to us
from Brazil and when I came to the door
there were armed federal agents from the
FBI and and the Customs Service who were
there having accompanied the shipment
determined that it contained something
that they were concerned about and
allowed me to receive the delivery and
then came in and began a process that
led to our going to court so that that
is is what’s known as a controlled drop
correct that’s correct it’s where there
is a shipment that they’ve determined
has some element to it that they’re
concerned about legally they arranged
for the shipment to be delivered someone
signs and takes responsibility for it
and then the federal authorities that
administer that area of the law can come
in and take a legal action because
someone’s taken responsibility to the
shipment and I mean there were although
there were no arrests made the UDV had
to stop using the tea right well I I we
made the conscious decision to stop for
a number of different reasons it wasn’t
that we were ordered to by indicating
that they believed that what we were
doing was not a legal activity we if we
continued risk the threat of some kind
of legal action or prosecution so
although they didn’t prosecute anybody
initially there was the threat that a
process that a prosecution could happen
subsequently and so we made the decision
to suspend our works in order to be able
to enter into a process of engaging with
authorities of the United States to be
able to show them the beneficent nature
of our practice and to show that we were
people who respected the law and
respected the the order within our
society
an incredibly stressful event right I
mean it’s it’s the federal agents come
and you’re doing this very you’re
practicing this very peaceful event and
you’re enhancing your consciousness and
was proven that there is no harm to the
health with with this with this tea and
and yet these federal agents are coming
down knocking down your door and raiding
this area so that they can seize the tea
from you
yeah unquestionably it stirred up a lot
of different feelings in me at the time
and it’s very different looking back on
it now some you know some years later
after all the process that we went
through of clarifying our position and
clarifying our right to the courts but
at that moment it was it was stressful
and there was a lot of concern I had for
myself for my family for my future for
my well-being because in in their eyes
the question was was I a criminal
importer of a dangerous drug and that
was the way that I could see some of
them were viewing me and the notion of
there being a legitimate religious and
spiritual use for these plants was not
something that was part of the
understanding at that time within the
legal system or within the political
system and so that was the work that we
had to do was to educate there were
conditions there are certain substances
that have over the period of of recent
history I think was beginning in 1961
came under international control because
they had certain properties where there
was a concern about them being abused
and in 1961 under a convention a treaty
that was signed by countries all over
the world the cannabis plant the the
coca plant and the the poppy straw from
which opium is derived on became subject
to international control and that was
the beginning of the formation of a body
international coordinated body that
related to the control of plants and
psychoactive substances that previously
hadn’t existed before and so there were
histories of of use of different kinds
of psychoactive
materials within cultural traditions all
over the world going back for thousands
of years but in the modern era there was
more of a sense of ways that these
substances these plants could be abused
than could be misused and so the system
developed that was treating them as if
they were dangerous narcotics or toxic
substances that needed to be restricted
prohibited and controlled and so it was
within that paradigm that I was
encountering the authorities of the
federal government who had been within
this paradigm of misunderstanding about
the nature of of these very vitally
important elements of our experience of
nature they thought of it as something
that needed to be criminalized and
people prosecuted for it was label to
Schedule one substance which is by
definition has no currently accepted
medical use and high potential for abuse
well it’s it’s interesting that you
mentioned that actually our position was
that the tea itself wasn’t listed as a
controlled substance
there was a compound that had been found
within the tea called dimethyltryptamine
that was listed as a controlled
substance as a chemical but the natural
occurring element of of this alkaloid of
this molecule that is pervasive in many
different plants in nature we felt was
not specifically controlled and that was
one of the the arguments that we made
but interestingly the this idea of no
known medical use in truth the tea that
we use within our religious tradition
has been used for healing purposes and
for medicinal purposes among traditional
societies and shamanic cultures for four
centuries so while the laws were
claiming that there was no known medical
use and reality there had been medical
uses health uses beneficent uses that
had gone on for centuries it was just
not properly understood yeah and and
this is something that comes around
later which we will get to I I want to
go through this this timeline may 1999
the tea is seized
mm this is 18 months later the UDV is
unsuccessful in negotiating a settlement
allowing the continuation of the
religious practices with the velasca
yeah we from the time that they seized
the tea there were some lawyers who came
forward to a system defend us and we
threw them try to have a number of
different interfaces with the federal
government explaining to them that it
would serve everyone’s best interest if
we could reach an agreement around how
our practice could be registered and and
allowed rather than having to go through
a process where we were living in fear
of our freedom and and the the whole
situation was not clear in relationship
to the legal status of the of our
practice right so then a beauty we filed
a lawsuit in federal court against the
DEA the US Customs Service the United
States Department of Justice for
violations of the First Amendment to the
US Constitution and the Religious
Freedom Restoration Act what element of
the First Amendment did the UDV used to
defend itself
the most important element was that the
First Amendment Constitution allows for
the free exercise of religion it’s
considered the most basic of all human
rights and in reality the the origin of
the the American Society was born of
people who were fleeing a different
degree of religious persecution that was
going on in in England and created a
society here that was open to different
forms of freedom of religion you know
there’s many countries in the world
today still where the freedom of
religion is the freedom to follow the
religion that is the state-sponsored
religion as it was in the Church of
England in the 1700s and 1600s when
people start to emigrate to the Western
world so in the formation of the
American society it was based upon this
principle of free exercise of religion
that the government should not be
involved in the business of religion it
shouldn’t be legislating and prohibiting
religion nor should it be sponsoring
and determining what kind of religions
people could follow it was meant to be
an area that was reserved in the bill of
rights for people to have this most
fundamental freedom of of expression of
coming to know their their own spiritual
origin and connect to the sacred connect
to the divine so that’s the the first
freedom that’s enunciated in the Bill of
Rights is is this free exercise of
religion and prohibiting the government
from were restricting the government
from prohibiting this free expression in
any way so that was the basic principle
yeah and is incredibly fascinating so
what was it what was the history behind
there were Native American organizations
that were using peyote as a sacrament so
I mean this was this was key in the
Supreme Court case what was the history
that you found that you ended up kind of
researching and finding other religions
other organizations using sacraments
within their practice that ended up
being a key element in winning this case
well there was this important precedent
in terms of the existence of an
organization called the Native American
church and when the these international
treaties that I was speaking of before
were implemented in terms of the laws of
the United States there was a an
accommodation that was made to the
existence of this organization called
the Native American church that had been
founded in the late 1800s where they
were you allowed to utilize peyote
within their religious rituals and the
Native American church is a diverse
organization that has many thousands of
practitioners not all of them Indian
actually there are many Native American
church members who are who have come to
the Native American church and found
meaning in that spiritual practice who
also use peyote in individuals who are
not Indian racially but have accepted
that is their spiritual practice and way
of life so in the controlled substance
laws that the government was claiming
applied to our religious practice
we were aware of the fact that there was
an exemption for the religious use of
peyote within the Native American church
and this went back to another
constitutional principle which is equal
justice under the law that where the
government has made an accommodation for
one kind of activity it can’t restrict
it somewhere else without a compelling
reason to do so it has to treat people
equally under the law
and so because there was a tradition
that specifically under the laws had
been allowed the right to use plants
within a spiritual context for their
religious work our claim was that they
couldn’t denies that freedom that it
would be unconstitutional and just there
were there were a process of Appeals and
then it eventually led to being a
Supreme Court case that was a precedent
it allowed us to express the freedom of
religion and drink the tea today in the
United States what was what was the
timeline how how long did this take for
it to move into the Supreme Court so
that it could be declared by these these
judges now that’s it’s a long story and
and there’s many phases along the way
you know we we ended up filing the
lawsuit in November of nineteen of 2000
and then there was different stages of
the litigation
first stage was in front of a single
district court judge where we were
asking for a preliminary injunction were
based upon a case that we were prepared
to present that we could be allowed our
spiritual practice on the basis of the
different arguments that we were making
and and the government very strongly
tried to repose that and the the judge
ended up making a decision in our favor
that ended up getting appealed by the
government to the Tenth Circuit Court of
Appeals and the Tenth Circuit Court of
Appeals is the United States judicial
system has is is the appeals come from
the states to different regions of or
what are called circuits and the
legal terminology and so the the
district court of New Mexico is in the
same circuit as the district court in
appeals court for Colorado and Montana
and other states in kind of the Central
West United States and so the case was
appealed to that Court it was first
heard by a three-judge panel that
three-judge panel after a year of
deliberation ruled in our favor the
government then appealed to a full
hearing of all the judges of this Tenth
Circuit Court they agreed to hear the
case there was another period of
briefing and rural arguments another
period of months that went by and they
ruled in our favor again by a majority
of eight to five I believe and then the
government appealed it to the Supreme
Court of the United States from the time
that we first filed the lawsuit in
November of 2000 till the time that our
case was heard by the Supreme Court of
the United States was in November of
2005 so there was five years in active
litigation from the time we first filed
to the time that the Supreme Court heard
our case and then there was another
several months after that before they
wrote their ruling Wow really such an
incredibly long drawn-out process
Jeffrey I’d really like to talk about
some of the foundations of the UDV and
how this T’s affecting consciousness
because for me personally I mean after
my first session with the T it it
completely changed my life I used to
drink alcohol I used to do drugs and
after a single session with the tea I
have not had a drink since that was
approximately two years ago I am a
completely reformed completely different
human being because of this tea how do
you see these types of changes within
the organization that you are part of
it’s very personal and and it’s an
encounter that we make with our own true
self our own higher self our own spirit
our own essential nature and I think
that
as somebody finds greater awareness
naturally there are things that perhaps
were things that we were unconsciously
utilizing to to help us deal with some
of the challenges of life or the pain or
some sense of dissatisfaction that that
people are subject to feeling as we
become more and more and more aware of
who we truly are in our nature and
connection to something superior
something spiritual something sacred
something divine more and more these are
the way of life changes how we are
within our body how we are within our
word how we are within our consciousness
how we are within our practice starts to
change as we gain awareness of who we
really are so that’s how I see it
working is that the the tea serves as a
way of amplifying consciousness so that
we become more aware of our thoughts
more aware of our feelings more aware of
our tendencies more aware of our habits
and more consciously able to see the
consequences of our choices in
relationship to how we choose to use our
word how we what we choose to take into
our bodies how we choose to relate to
other people we gain more awareness and
our life starts to transform as we
become more conscious because we start
to see certain things that maybe we did
habitually or maybe we did out of a
sense of emptiness before we come to a
point where we see we no longer need
that we no longer want that we have a
different way of moving through life
from a different sense of a different
sensibility different awareness so it’s
not uncommon what you describe for
people who have had challenges with with
substance abuse to come and drink this
tea which is made just from two plants
part of the natural world without any
fermentation without any form of
corruption and take it into yourself and
have it invigorate and illuminate and
then and and awaken and inspire your
your true self your consciousness yeah
such a powerful thing to connect back
into a person
self and go through this process of you
know drinking the tea and it seems to be
a very mysterious thing it seems that it
is the only true medicine it is one of
the only true medicines when in a world
of pharmacology where you’re taking a
pill to address symptoms here is
something that is is so life changing so
life altering that after only one
session you’re reconnecting with
yourself you’re reconnecting with your
own body your own spirituality your own
consciousness well one thing that’s also
true is is that it really is very
individual and very personal not
everybody who comes has the same
experience not everybody who comes has
the same powerful sense of
transformation happen right away you
know there was somebody I knew for
example who came to rituals for a year
before they actually experienced what
they’d heard other people describing but
they could tell that there was something
very dynamic going on they just had to
work through certain things before they
could receive what was possible for them
but in the way that I look at medicine I
really believe that there’s a divine
intelligence that is responsible for the
creation and the sustenance of the world
that we live in and that intelligence
created this world for a purpose which
relates to our spiritual evolution or
spiritual development and on this earth
the power that intelligence that divine
architect put plants that could serve a
variety of different purposes from
healing us from nurturing us from
providing shelter for us but also
certain plants that have the capacity to
connect us back to the source and so the
the real source of most medicine before
this modern advent of pharmacology and
and you know pharmaceutical chemical
substances was the Platinum was where
people would come to look for healing to
look for health and so this to be able
to I agree with you I think that the the
true medicine the true healing comes
from plants and there are many many
different kinds of
should address many different dimensions
of healing what’s unique about these two
plants which are united in a ritual way
is that they work on our consciousness
and they work on our spirit it’s like a
medicine for the spirit a medicine for
the part of us that has been feeling
separate from from life itself and it
restores that sense of connection to to
let yeah I make a small joke to my
friends I say that instead of a bank on
every street corner we should have a UTV
Center on history corner I feel it’s so
integral to connect with these compounds
that do seem to serve as this true
medicine if we could just explore what
what is happening in a ritual setting
within a UTV when when a person comes to
the UTV what what is happening there
well they would encounter a very simply
designed room where there is a simple
altar and a simple photograph of the
founder of our religion mesti Gabrielle
and a place where the sacrament is held
and people come up and receive it one by
one we drink all together at the same
time we sit in comfortable chairs that
support us and people concentrate within
themselves we we drink this tea for the
purposes of mental concentration to help
us have greater facility for inner
reflection for inner contemplation to be
able to have greater awareness of our
own self and it also animates and
elevates our awareness of our own vital
energy of our own spirit as I was saying
before and so the rituals are
contemplatives they’re instructive
within the the rituals their teachings
that are given orientations given people
have the opportunity to to ask questions
and to study within the answers that are
given to find greater awareness around
the things that perhaps or challenges
for them in life and so this that’s what
the UDV rituals are for to help instruct
to help orient to help guide and to help
give people the experience of a greater
connection to go
and and this is why as you were drinking
this tea through the 90s this is why it
was so important to you to see that this
legislation worked in your favor that
the court decided in your favor because
of the mutual benefit for humanity for
human beings to have access to something
that helped them heal themselves no
absolutely I mean it was a very I knew
that there was a lot at stake I mean
there was my personal freedom that was
at stake because if the decision had
gone a different way or conceivably
could have been found to have violated a
law and and you know punished within the
the rules of law in our society for
having done that fortunately I was
guarded throughout the whole process and
no harm came to me at any moment but
there was the awareness that I had but
this wasn’t just for me that I really
was struggling for a possibility for the
people in the United States and a
possibility really for people around the
world to have this way of communing with
the divine this way of reconnecting with
nature this way of gaining greater
spiritual awareness validated and
affirmed and guarded within the law and
so I knew that there was more this was
more than a personal struggle I really
wanted this possibility for humanity to
be affirmed and to be confirmed legal
Wow yeah in more than a 10-year legal
struggle the the UDV did end up securing
the right to use rasca as a tea as a
religious sacrament in the United States
yeah we were able to and it resulted
from a lot of very conscientious work
you know one thing that the dudv teaches
relates to the importance of our word
and literally in the process of arriving
at the decision of receiving the word of
the Supreme Court confirming that we had
the legal right that we were seeking
them to affirm we prepared thousands of
pages of documents to present telling
our story giving testimony having
medical experts having legal scholars
having treaty scholars
having scientists having doctors having
different people come forward to give
their testimony about the validation the
validity of our religious practice in
order to be able to have the cord with
full awareness confirm it and the
decision was unanimous and that was
something that I wasn’t expecting but it
was something that it was apparently so
clear to the judges from the time we
began till the time that we completed
the presentation of our case that we had
a unanimous decision from the Supreme
Court that is rarely unanimous about
anything in this you know current era
but it was something that they could see
and it was very powerful I remember the
day that the oral arguments were were
being presented and this was people with
a lot of authority legal authority
judicial authority political authority a
lot of power in relationship to
government authority that we were coming
before with the government of the United
States as to asking them to deny us
rights that we felt were inherent within
the Constitution and inherent within the
law and so they on the one side had very
experienced and powerful powerfully
situated government lawyers who were
asking the Supreme Court to reverse the
decisions that the judges in the courts
below had already affirmed and there was
you know 14 different judges that had
already reviewed the case and referred
it and then they were asking these nine
judges to change the decision that these
lower court judges had reached and so it
was a powerful moment to come before
this Tribunal and and in the Supreme
Court chambers there these images of
different lawgivers images of different
people who brought the law and the light
through the law to humanity and so these
people were there sitting in
consideration of the right of people to
unite with the sacred the right of
people to know our own origin the right
of people to connect and commune and
there was you know the authority the
political authority was with
coming and presenting all the arguments
that they could to try to claim why this
shouldn’t be allowed unfortunately the
Supreme Court found more righteousness
and more truth and more justice and the
arguments that we were presenting and
that and the testimony that we were
giving and they affirm that ret Wow
yeah I mean I there’s so much thanks and
just the work that you have spearheaded
and the team of people that have secured
this right for us to drink in the United
States and this precedent case I read
this this quote that you you said this
has been a time of indescribable stress
and sadness for me the effect of all
this has produced tremendous strain on
my family my personal health and to some
degree my religious faith it’s it it’s
war you know it really seems like award
I mean we won local s so Jeffrey I
really want to know for you and in your
own personal experience and how long
have you been drinking Cetina my first
case of the UDV in July of 1990 we’re
now October of 2016 so I’ve been at this
for over 26 years yeah what is something
that you’ve has been shown to you or
that you have realized through drinking
the tea for as long as you have been
drinking what I noticed at the beginning
and I think in some ways that’s a very
important time as we come out of one
stage of life and into what will be the
the next developing stages of our life
was an increase of my own intuition and
increase of my own sensibility and
sensitivity I I believe in the UDV
teaches that each one of us have a
conscience and within our conscience is
a connection to a higher intelligence a
higher sense of order a higher awareness
and so I felt my intuition growing as a
result of my early experiences drinking
the tea and over the 26 years that
because that has become something that I
aspire to live with is the awareness of
my awakened sensitivity to the world
around me
conversations with people and the work
that I choose to do in what I call to do
every day from the moment I opened my
eyes in the morning until I go to rest
at night and then even in my dreams
sometimes to work within this awareness
of maintaining my connection to the
sacred to this higher consciousness and
bringing it into into practice into
action in my life so over 26 years it’s
it’s hard to distinguish you know one
thing or another finger then so so so
many things that have happened to me but
the general progression has been one of
greater connectivity greater happiness
more friends more ease and more peace in
my life and more joy so Jeffrey it’s not
just about the tea it’s also about this
community and these people who actually
love and care for you I remember I
remember my first session with the tea
and I showed up at this church and I
have never been greeted with so much
kindness and love and affection from
complete strangers I immediately felt
more at ease than I ever had in my life
it was so life-altering for me to
experience that to connect with these
people who at the time didn’t know me
and yet had their arms wide open and
just so much love so much outpouring of
support and family soul family I’m so
happy that it was that way for you and I
really hope it’s that way for anybody
who would find their way to come to know
this and I think it’s part of in this
process of awakening and coming to
greater understanding of what it means
to be human and greater understanding of
the laws that govern the human
experience I believe that the awareness
comes that the fundamental principle of
life is that we’re here to love we’re
here to love we’re here to serve we’re
here to care for one another and the
more spiritually awakened the person
becomes the more that becomes the
fundamental mandate of their life and I
was talking about this the other day we
were talking about the evolution from
Judaism into Christianity which which
Jesus
as a guide to to take people into the
next level of the human awareness and in
that era and at that time there were
hundreds of laws and regulations that
were practiced within the you know the
the religion the face of that time and
Jesus came in a sense to to clarify to
simplify that and and he said that the
the essence of the lies is one you know
and I guess it became known as the
golden rule to love God above all things
and to love the other if you love
yourself and that simple practice is
something that the more awakened we
become the more that imperative to love
I think starts to guide us and so you
can encounter that with people who are
genuinely and sincerely interested in
you and caring about you and wanting to
welcome you because they want to extend
to you the care and the love that
they’ve been treated with in their walk
in their practice as well that’s very
profound what you’re everything you’re
saying and is there something that you
know there I noticed with with the show
and we do cover
whoahhh sky and we do cover this type of
topic so I get many messages where
people are seeking the tea they’re
looking for the tea and there has almost
been a sort of migration that has
happened towards an actual medicine
outside of the Western medical systems
that where people can they feel that
this this tea can change their lives and
I think every story that I’ve heard
about someone traveling to brew and
spending you know four or five thousand
dollars to go there and drink with a
shaman there there there seems to it’s
almost becoming sort of a trend for
people of my generation that that are
are seeking something more than than
just the ordinary and and the same
answers that we’ve we’ve always gotten
and we’re just searching for more we’re
searching for the truth and so my
question to anyone listening to this
this show and listening to us how can we
become more in tune with our
consciousness and our own desires and
our own needs and what we need to do for
ourselves and for Humanity oh that’s a
huge question I mean I feel that the
there’s a universal truth that has
reflected in in so many of the religions
of the world and so many spiritual
practices of the world and I think
people who find that truth find
resonance with people from different
faiths or from very different cultures
because we live according to the same
basic principles when we come to
understand the the purpose of life when
we come to understand the essence of
life and the meaning of life and so I
think that this quest that has been
evolving where people have been called
to now that the awareness that this
possibility exists has been brought to
greater awareness I mean I was in a
conference in Spain in 2014 that was
centered around the use of this key was
called the globalization of ayahuasca
conference the first international
conference on this topic and there were
people from over 70 countries there
hundreds of people who are interested in
learning more about this tea and I’m
going to be in a couple of weeks going
down to Rio Branco Brazil where there’s
going to be the second conference and
people again from all over the world in
different cultures coming and because
where this conference is occurring it’s
actually taking place in the Amazon
region there are people from tribal
cultures and shamanic healers and people
from different ways of working with this
sacred tea who are going to be coming
and and presenting at the conference and
and I think that the repercussions of
that are going to be very powerful and
many more people are going to learn
about this and as often happens with our
tendencies which sometimes are needing
to improve and that they’re they’re not
everybody who works with the tea does it
the same degree of integrity does with
the same degree of care does it with the
same degree of consciousness and so it’s
not just the tea itself that brings
about the transformation and this is a
point
we we really but I hope people can
understand and that I always try to
strive to clarify the T itself is a tool
but it’s a tool or a key shall we say
that could open many different doors and
it’s it’s which doors get opened and how
a person is directed and conducted
within the ritual that really brings
about the change of life so what we
teach about in the UDV is it’s the T
it’s the teachings to come from the
mastery and from the masteries that he
taught who have taught other masters who
today carry these teachings forward the
doctrine which is about the changes that
we need to make in our life to have
greater equilibrium to have greater
health to have greater harmony in our
lives and then there’s what you spoke of
before the the friendship the community
of love where we live these principles
and when we make these practice and all
of those elements are vital so it’s not
just drinking the tea itself and there
been unfortunate incidences where people
spend a lot of money and they’ve
traveled down to the Amazon and they’ve
had an experience that was not positive
for them and and I know people who have
returned very disoriented from that so
the tea in and of itself is not a
cure-all it is something that has the
potential to bring great goodness and
great benefit but it depends where you
receive it and one context you receive
it and how you’re instructed to work
with it that brings about the real
change hmm yeah Wow such a powerful
powerful tool such a powerful thing such
a powerful organization Geoffrey I think
I could sit here all day and and kind of
inquire more and more about what’s going
on with you and the tea and and
consciousness I feel very honored to I
don’t think that you give many of these
interviews so I’m very very honored to
have you here and to discuss the case
and and what the UDV is doing as a
community and and for humanity and and
for consciousness and I feel that it’s
very early in these stages as an
organization it is still quite quite
young so we have we have a long road
ahead and I believe that this
organization can help many many people
Jeffrey it’s truly an honor sir I mean
is there anything that you would like to
give to anyone listening advice and
anything that you would like to kind of
have a moment to say to anyone that
might be listening to thank you you know
for the opportunity to to offer
something in this way and I just really
want to say that for people to recognize
that the privilege of being alive is a
sacred gift that has come to each one of
us from the divine intelligence and that
our life is filled with meaning and that
we each have a purpose that we have come
on to this earth in order to realize
ultimately that purpose being to awaken
spiritually and come to understand our
relationship to this infinite divine
power which is filled with light which
is light which is peace which is love
and this is our destiny this is our
inheritance and so if people are finding
that their experiences is unsatisfying
or hard or they’re finding they’re in a
time of uncertainty I just want to offer
the reassurance that there is great hope
and great reason for for for knowing
that there’s something awaiting you
something that can fulfill you something
that will be the answer to your prayers
something that will teach you how to
live in harmony with the beauty that’s
all around us and that this this is
really what awaits each one of us and I
just can offer this with certainty and
and reassurance that we were on a
journey that will take us to a place of
more beauty and more happiness than we
could ever know ever imagined and that
this is what what awaits us in this
rising new day of humanity that’s begun
Jeffrey there’s there’s such an amazing
potency to your words and I I’m I’m at a
loss for them actually I’m so thankful
for your presence here for the work that
you’ve done and for for fighting this
battle for us so that we we do have this
opportunity to express religious freedom
and take part in this in this sacrament
Jeffrey where can where can people find
more about the UDV
if they’re interested in
when listening to this conversation
we’ll be interested in finding more
about beauty D yeah there’s a website
that’s UDV cambiar and that’s where you
could find out more information and then
there’s also a UDV usa.com website that
explains about some of our work in the
United States so there’s that’s where
the information I think is for people to
come and and find and then if there’s a
place in the local community where
people live there’s information about
that where the communities are where the
groups are that they could find on the
website amazing Jeffrey my good sir it’s
really been a pleasure and honor I can’t
thank you enough for for being here
being open with this whole story it’s
very remarkable and again thank you for
the work you’ve done you continue to do
and your presence today it’s my pleasure
and and I it’s part of my joy to be able
to share this I’ve benefited so much
I’ve learned so much and to be able to
share this with other people and open
this possibility for others is really my
happiness we worked really hard to be
able to have this right to secure this
right but as I was saying before it
wasn’t just for us it’s to make it
possible to bring about a change in
humanity because we really need this we
need reorientation we need to have
better understanding about how to live
well on this earth and I’m grateful to
be part of this movement of awakening
that’s happening and honored to be able
to do in some small way to tell people
about this practice and and extend
shared my experience love it I have a
big big smile on my face Jeffrey thank
you again
this is the human experience guys we
will see you guys next week thank you
guys so much for listening