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[Music]

Xavier katana here with the human

experience guys wow what an absolutely

profound magical game-changing episode

we have here with mastery Geoffrey

Rothman Geoffrey was the president of

EDD in the United States from the early

1990s to 2005 he was also instrumental

in spearheading the legislation in the

Supreme Court case granting us the

freedom to drink rasca otherwise known

as ayahuasca I want to sincerely thank

Geoffrey for not only lending me his

time but trusting me with doing this

episode and giving hxp the exclusive you

will not hear this anywhere else he was

asked by time ABC NBC Larry King and

other major networks to do an interview

and he trusted us for human experience

with this recording I must also thank a

very good friend of mine who was

instrumental in setting this episode up

I’m certain he will be listening if

you’re interested in communing with the

divine with connecting with divine

intelligence realigning with your

purpose your bones spiritual evolution

and if you’re interested in learning

about using these plant medicine

from healing us to connecting us back to

the source before the modern advent of

pharmacology and chemical substances was

the plant realm Tamils access this true

medicine is one of the greatest gifts we

as human beings experiencing life on

this planet have so I’m beyond thankful

and grateful to have had the opportunity

to speak with Geoffrey one-on-one to

really dig into the story of what

happens to him during the DEA raid on

Jeffrey’s property in this episode we

lay out that story in detail this

episode was seamless and there’s a very

potent wise lucid understanding that

comes with Geoffrey’s words which I’m

certain that you will pick up on if you

enjoy this episode help us cover server

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the human XP guys as always thank you so

much for listening this episode makes my

job 100% worth it thank you guys the

human experience is in session my guest

today is mr. Jeffrey Bronfman Jeffrey my

good sir it’s an honor thank you so much

for being here thank you for the

privilege of communicating with you and

through this conversation reaching out

to others so Jeffrey we we were talking

about the UTV today I before we get to

that I would like to do TV in the

Supreme Court legislation I would like

to

I’d like to know a little bit more about

who you are for anyone listening that

might not know who who you are can you

just tell us briefly about yourself and

your background please sure I was born

in a Jewish family both of my father of

my mother’s side in Canada and I was

influenced in my youth from the sense of

being part of a people with a long

history going back thousands of years

and the sense of culture and identity

that comes from that and as I grew up I

that there was more of a sense of a

universal understanding about myself and

my path and my what it means to be human

and I began a search that led me to many

different cultural traditions really in

it began with with teachings from from

India’s I think it began for for many

people and then I started to appreciate

the wisdom traditions from the this

hemisphere in in terms of the native

populations and Central and South

America and studying within different

indigenous and shamanic traditions and

appreciating the awareness that they had

about the nature of the human experience

and the nature of our consciousness and

and what the responsibilities of being

human were and how to care for our

community the land our families and I

came aware that within the wisdom

traditions of the Americas there were

traditions that were based on the use of

sacred plants and plants that could

assist us in communing more fully with

the natural world and gain a greater

inside an understanding of ourselves and

so that began a process for me of

learning more about that dimension of

the human experience and that’s what

ultimately brought me over a period of

years to where I encountered the the

tradition that I follow today which we

speak of as the UDV the wing of the

bishop tile working with the sacred

plants of the Amazon yeah intriguing so

so therefore you you first became

interested in

the UDV in 1990 when you went into the

Amazon to create a conservation preserve

that correct that’s correct

and but let’s I mean that’s it let’s

fast forward a bit and when you embrace

the religion 1990 to 1999 a shipment of

the tea was seized this was the the

foundation for the legal battle that

subsequently followed what happened in

1999 and what was what was the trigger

event that that led to the tea being

seized and and what was your reaction to

that well some of these things I think

happened within a mystery and and their

dimensions are that I’m not sure that

we’ll ever really know fully how and why

and and the mystery of how it happened I

I established the UDV in the United

States after my first trips to Brazil in

in the early 1990s I established it in

1993 and we had been organized and were

realizing ceremonies over a period of

years when knowing that eventually there

would likely be some questioning on the

part of the government of the United

States with respect to what we were

doing because it was somewhat unusual

and and because we were aware of the

fact that what the the tea that we were

utilizing is a central sacrament of our

religious practice of our spiritual work

if chemically analyzed could be found to

contain what would be considered a

controlled substance

there are alkaloids or products of

natural origin with enmity that when

synthesized can be utilized in ways that

the Drug Enforcement Administration in

the United States and the laws of the

United States could understandably have

some questions about and so while we

felt that what we were doing was

protected constitutionally and was

protected under the principles of basic

human rights of freedom of religion we

recognized that it was an unusual

practice and was not common in in the

modern world for people to actively be

coming together in a rich

setting and and drinking a sacrament

that had a psychoactive effect a way of

enhancing our consciousness and our

awareness so I new freely from the very

beginning that there would come a point

where there would be some question

possibly that could be raised about this

practice and then the way the BET

question came was in an unexpectedly

strong form where I was as you indicated

prepared to receive the shipment of our

sacrament that was being shipped to us

from Brazil and when I came to the door

there were armed federal agents from the

FBI and and the Customs Service who were

there having accompanied the shipment

determined that it contained something

that they were concerned about and

allowed me to receive the delivery and

then came in and began a process that

led to our going to court so that that

is is what’s known as a controlled drop

correct that’s correct it’s where there

is a shipment that they’ve determined

has some element to it that they’re

concerned about legally they arranged

for the shipment to be delivered someone

signs and takes responsibility for it

and then the federal authorities that

administer that area of the law can come

in and take a legal action because

someone’s taken responsibility to the

shipment and I mean there were although

there were no arrests made the UDV had

to stop using the tea right well I I we

made the conscious decision to stop for

a number of different reasons it wasn’t

that we were ordered to by indicating

that they believed that what we were

doing was not a legal activity we if we

continued risk the threat of some kind

of legal action or prosecution so

although they didn’t prosecute anybody

initially there was the threat that a

process that a prosecution could happen

subsequently and so we made the decision

to suspend our works in order to be able

to enter into a process of engaging with

authorities of the United States to be

able to show them the beneficent nature

of our practice and to show that we were

people who respected the law and

respected the the order within our

society

an incredibly stressful event right I

mean it’s it’s the federal agents come

and you’re doing this very you’re

practicing this very peaceful event and

you’re enhancing your consciousness and

was proven that there is no harm to the

health with with this with this tea and

and yet these federal agents are coming

down knocking down your door and raiding

this area so that they can seize the tea

from you

yeah unquestionably it stirred up a lot

of different feelings in me at the time

and it’s very different looking back on

it now some you know some years later

after all the process that we went

through of clarifying our position and

clarifying our right to the courts but

at that moment it was it was stressful

and there was a lot of concern I had for

myself for my family for my future for

my well-being because in in their eyes

the question was was I a criminal

importer of a dangerous drug and that

was the way that I could see some of

them were viewing me and the notion of

there being a legitimate religious and

spiritual use for these plants was not

something that was part of the

understanding at that time within the

legal system or within the political

system and so that was the work that we

had to do was to educate there were

conditions there are certain substances

that have over the period of of recent

history I think was beginning in 1961

came under international control because

they had certain properties where there

was a concern about them being abused

and in 1961 under a convention a treaty

that was signed by countries all over

the world the cannabis plant the the

coca plant and the the poppy straw from

which opium is derived on became subject

to international control and that was

the beginning of the formation of a body

international coordinated body that

related to the control of plants and

psychoactive substances that previously

hadn’t existed before and so there were

histories of of use of different kinds

of psychoactive

materials within cultural traditions all

over the world going back for thousands

of years but in the modern era there was

more of a sense of ways that these

substances these plants could be abused

than could be misused and so the system

developed that was treating them as if

they were dangerous narcotics or toxic

substances that needed to be restricted

prohibited and controlled and so it was

within that paradigm that I was

encountering the authorities of the

federal government who had been within

this paradigm of misunderstanding about

the nature of of these very vitally

important elements of our experience of

nature they thought of it as something

that needed to be criminalized and

people prosecuted for it was label to

Schedule one substance which is by

definition has no currently accepted

medical use and high potential for abuse

well it’s it’s interesting that you

mentioned that actually our position was

that the tea itself wasn’t listed as a

controlled substance

there was a compound that had been found

within the tea called dimethyltryptamine

that was listed as a controlled

substance as a chemical but the natural

occurring element of of this alkaloid of

this molecule that is pervasive in many

different plants in nature we felt was

not specifically controlled and that was

one of the the arguments that we made

but interestingly the this idea of no

known medical use in truth the tea that

we use within our religious tradition

has been used for healing purposes and

for medicinal purposes among traditional

societies and shamanic cultures for four

centuries so while the laws were

claiming that there was no known medical

use and reality there had been medical

uses health uses beneficent uses that

had gone on for centuries it was just

not properly understood yeah and and

this is something that comes around

later which we will get to I I want to

go through this this timeline may 1999

the tea is seized

mm this is 18 months later the UDV is

unsuccessful in negotiating a settlement

allowing the continuation of the

religious practices with the velasca

yeah we from the time that they seized

the tea there were some lawyers who came

forward to a system defend us and we

threw them try to have a number of

different interfaces with the federal

government explaining to them that it

would serve everyone’s best interest if

we could reach an agreement around how

our practice could be registered and and

allowed rather than having to go through

a process where we were living in fear

of our freedom and and the the whole

situation was not clear in relationship

to the legal status of the of our

practice right so then a beauty we filed

a lawsuit in federal court against the

DEA the US Customs Service the United

States Department of Justice for

violations of the First Amendment to the

US Constitution and the Religious

Freedom Restoration Act what element of

the First Amendment did the UDV used to

defend itself

the most important element was that the

First Amendment Constitution allows for

the free exercise of religion it’s

considered the most basic of all human

rights and in reality the the origin of

the the American Society was born of

people who were fleeing a different

degree of religious persecution that was

going on in in England and created a

society here that was open to different

forms of freedom of religion you know

there’s many countries in the world

today still where the freedom of

religion is the freedom to follow the

religion that is the state-sponsored

religion as it was in the Church of

England in the 1700s and 1600s when

people start to emigrate to the Western

world so in the formation of the

American society it was based upon this

principle of free exercise of religion

that the government should not be

involved in the business of religion it

shouldn’t be legislating and prohibiting

religion nor should it be sponsoring

and determining what kind of religions

people could follow it was meant to be

an area that was reserved in the bill of

rights for people to have this most

fundamental freedom of of expression of

coming to know their their own spiritual

origin and connect to the sacred connect

to the divine so that’s the the first

freedom that’s enunciated in the Bill of

Rights is is this free exercise of

religion and prohibiting the government

from were restricting the government

from prohibiting this free expression in

any way so that was the basic principle

yeah and is incredibly fascinating so

what was it what was the history behind

there were Native American organizations

that were using peyote as a sacrament so

I mean this was this was key in the

Supreme Court case what was the history

that you found that you ended up kind of

researching and finding other religions

other organizations using sacraments

within their practice that ended up

being a key element in winning this case

well there was this important precedent

in terms of the existence of an

organization called the Native American

church and when the these international

treaties that I was speaking of before

were implemented in terms of the laws of

the United States there was a an

accommodation that was made to the

existence of this organization called

the Native American church that had been

founded in the late 1800s where they

were you allowed to utilize peyote

within their religious rituals and the

Native American church is a diverse

organization that has many thousands of

practitioners not all of them Indian

actually there are many Native American

church members who are who have come to

the Native American church and found

meaning in that spiritual practice who

also use peyote in individuals who are

not Indian racially but have accepted

that is their spiritual practice and way

of life so in the controlled substance

laws that the government was claiming

applied to our religious practice

we were aware of the fact that there was

an exemption for the religious use of

peyote within the Native American church

and this went back to another

constitutional principle which is equal

justice under the law that where the

government has made an accommodation for

one kind of activity it can’t restrict

it somewhere else without a compelling

reason to do so it has to treat people

equally under the law

and so because there was a tradition

that specifically under the laws had

been allowed the right to use plants

within a spiritual context for their

religious work our claim was that they

couldn’t denies that freedom that it

would be unconstitutional and just there

were there were a process of Appeals and

then it eventually led to being a

Supreme Court case that was a precedent

it allowed us to express the freedom of

religion and drink the tea today in the

United States what was what was the

timeline how how long did this take for

it to move into the Supreme Court so

that it could be declared by these these

judges now that’s it’s a long story and

and there’s many phases along the way

you know we we ended up filing the

lawsuit in November of nineteen of 2000

and then there was different stages of

the litigation

first stage was in front of a single

district court judge where we were

asking for a preliminary injunction were

based upon a case that we were prepared

to present that we could be allowed our

spiritual practice on the basis of the

different arguments that we were making

and and the government very strongly

tried to repose that and the the judge

ended up making a decision in our favor

that ended up getting appealed by the

government to the Tenth Circuit Court of

Appeals and the Tenth Circuit Court of

Appeals is the United States judicial

system has is is the appeals come from

the states to different regions of or

what are called circuits and the

legal terminology and so the the

district court of New Mexico is in the

same circuit as the district court in

appeals court for Colorado and Montana

and other states in kind of the Central

West United States and so the case was

appealed to that Court it was first

heard by a three-judge panel that

three-judge panel after a year of

deliberation ruled in our favor the

government then appealed to a full

hearing of all the judges of this Tenth

Circuit Court they agreed to hear the

case there was another period of

briefing and rural arguments another

period of months that went by and they

ruled in our favor again by a majority

of eight to five I believe and then the

government appealed it to the Supreme

Court of the United States from the time

that we first filed the lawsuit in

November of 2000 till the time that our

case was heard by the Supreme Court of

the United States was in November of

2005 so there was five years in active

litigation from the time we first filed

to the time that the Supreme Court heard

our case and then there was another

several months after that before they

wrote their ruling Wow really such an

incredibly long drawn-out process

Jeffrey I’d really like to talk about

some of the foundations of the UDV and

how this T’s affecting consciousness

because for me personally I mean after

my first session with the T it it

completely changed my life I used to

drink alcohol I used to do drugs and

after a single session with the tea I

have not had a drink since that was

approximately two years ago I am a

completely reformed completely different

human being because of this tea how do

you see these types of changes within

the organization that you are part of

it’s very personal and and it’s an

encounter that we make with our own true

self our own higher self our own spirit

our own essential nature and I think

that

as somebody finds greater awareness

naturally there are things that perhaps

were things that we were unconsciously

utilizing to to help us deal with some

of the challenges of life or the pain or

some sense of dissatisfaction that that

people are subject to feeling as we

become more and more and more aware of

who we truly are in our nature and

connection to something superior

something spiritual something sacred

something divine more and more these are

the way of life changes how we are

within our body how we are within our

word how we are within our consciousness

how we are within our practice starts to

change as we gain awareness of who we

really are so that’s how I see it

working is that the the tea serves as a

way of amplifying consciousness so that

we become more aware of our thoughts

more aware of our feelings more aware of

our tendencies more aware of our habits

and more consciously able to see the

consequences of our choices in

relationship to how we choose to use our

word how we what we choose to take into

our bodies how we choose to relate to

other people we gain more awareness and

our life starts to transform as we

become more conscious because we start

to see certain things that maybe we did

habitually or maybe we did out of a

sense of emptiness before we come to a

point where we see we no longer need

that we no longer want that we have a

different way of moving through life

from a different sense of a different

sensibility different awareness so it’s

not uncommon what you describe for

people who have had challenges with with

substance abuse to come and drink this

tea which is made just from two plants

part of the natural world without any

fermentation without any form of

corruption and take it into yourself and

have it invigorate and illuminate and

then and and awaken and inspire your

your true self your consciousness yeah

such a powerful thing to connect back

into a person

self and go through this process of you

know drinking the tea and it seems to be

a very mysterious thing it seems that it

is the only true medicine it is one of

the only true medicines when in a world

of pharmacology where you’re taking a

pill to address symptoms here is

something that is is so life changing so

life altering that after only one

session you’re reconnecting with

yourself you’re reconnecting with your

own body your own spirituality your own

consciousness well one thing that’s also

true is is that it really is very

individual and very personal not

everybody who comes has the same

experience not everybody who comes has

the same powerful sense of

transformation happen right away you

know there was somebody I knew for

example who came to rituals for a year

before they actually experienced what

they’d heard other people describing but

they could tell that there was something

very dynamic going on they just had to

work through certain things before they

could receive what was possible for them

but in the way that I look at medicine I

really believe that there’s a divine

intelligence that is responsible for the

creation and the sustenance of the world

that we live in and that intelligence

created this world for a purpose which

relates to our spiritual evolution or

spiritual development and on this earth

the power that intelligence that divine

architect put plants that could serve a

variety of different purposes from

healing us from nurturing us from

providing shelter for us but also

certain plants that have the capacity to

connect us back to the source and so the

the real source of most medicine before

this modern advent of pharmacology and

and you know pharmaceutical chemical

substances was the Platinum was where

people would come to look for healing to

look for health and so this to be able

to I agree with you I think that the the

true medicine the true healing comes

from plants and there are many many

different kinds of

should address many different dimensions

of healing what’s unique about these two

plants which are united in a ritual way

is that they work on our consciousness

and they work on our spirit it’s like a

medicine for the spirit a medicine for

the part of us that has been feeling

separate from from life itself and it

restores that sense of connection to to

let yeah I make a small joke to my

friends I say that instead of a bank on

every street corner we should have a UTV

Center on history corner I feel it’s so

integral to connect with these compounds

that do seem to serve as this true

medicine if we could just explore what

what is happening in a ritual setting

within a UTV when when a person comes to

the UTV what what is happening there

well they would encounter a very simply

designed room where there is a simple

altar and a simple photograph of the

founder of our religion mesti Gabrielle

and a place where the sacrament is held

and people come up and receive it one by

one we drink all together at the same

time we sit in comfortable chairs that

support us and people concentrate within

themselves we we drink this tea for the

purposes of mental concentration to help

us have greater facility for inner

reflection for inner contemplation to be

able to have greater awareness of our

own self and it also animates and

elevates our awareness of our own vital

energy of our own spirit as I was saying

before and so the rituals are

contemplatives they’re instructive

within the the rituals their teachings

that are given orientations given people

have the opportunity to to ask questions

and to study within the answers that are

given to find greater awareness around

the things that perhaps or challenges

for them in life and so this that’s what

the UDV rituals are for to help instruct

to help orient to help guide and to help

give people the experience of a greater

connection to go

and and this is why as you were drinking

this tea through the 90s this is why it

was so important to you to see that this

legislation worked in your favor that

the court decided in your favor because

of the mutual benefit for humanity for

human beings to have access to something

that helped them heal themselves no

absolutely I mean it was a very I knew

that there was a lot at stake I mean

there was my personal freedom that was

at stake because if the decision had

gone a different way or conceivably

could have been found to have violated a

law and and you know punished within the

the rules of law in our society for

having done that fortunately I was

guarded throughout the whole process and

no harm came to me at any moment but

there was the awareness that I had but

this wasn’t just for me that I really

was struggling for a possibility for the

people in the United States and a

possibility really for people around the

world to have this way of communing with

the divine this way of reconnecting with

nature this way of gaining greater

spiritual awareness validated and

affirmed and guarded within the law and

so I knew that there was more this was

more than a personal struggle I really

wanted this possibility for humanity to

be affirmed and to be confirmed legal

Wow yeah in more than a 10-year legal

struggle the the UDV did end up securing

the right to use rasca as a tea as a

religious sacrament in the United States

yeah we were able to and it resulted

from a lot of very conscientious work

you know one thing that the dudv teaches

relates to the importance of our word

and literally in the process of arriving

at the decision of receiving the word of

the Supreme Court confirming that we had

the legal right that we were seeking

them to affirm we prepared thousands of

pages of documents to present telling

our story giving testimony having

medical experts having legal scholars

having treaty scholars

having scientists having doctors having

different people come forward to give

their testimony about the validation the

validity of our religious practice in

order to be able to have the cord with

full awareness confirm it and the

decision was unanimous and that was

something that I wasn’t expecting but it

was something that it was apparently so

clear to the judges from the time we

began till the time that we completed

the presentation of our case that we had

a unanimous decision from the Supreme

Court that is rarely unanimous about

anything in this you know current era

but it was something that they could see

and it was very powerful I remember the

day that the oral arguments were were

being presented and this was people with

a lot of authority legal authority

judicial authority political authority a

lot of power in relationship to

government authority that we were coming

before with the government of the United

States as to asking them to deny us

rights that we felt were inherent within

the Constitution and inherent within the

law and so they on the one side had very

experienced and powerful powerfully

situated government lawyers who were

asking the Supreme Court to reverse the

decisions that the judges in the courts

below had already affirmed and there was

you know 14 different judges that had

already reviewed the case and referred

it and then they were asking these nine

judges to change the decision that these

lower court judges had reached and so it

was a powerful moment to come before

this Tribunal and and in the Supreme

Court chambers there these images of

different lawgivers images of different

people who brought the law and the light

through the law to humanity and so these

people were there sitting in

consideration of the right of people to

unite with the sacred the right of

people to know our own origin the right

of people to connect and commune and

there was you know the authority the

political authority was with

coming and presenting all the arguments

that they could to try to claim why this

shouldn’t be allowed unfortunately the

Supreme Court found more righteousness

and more truth and more justice and the

arguments that we were presenting and

that and the testimony that we were

giving and they affirm that ret Wow

yeah I mean I there’s so much thanks and

just the work that you have spearheaded

and the team of people that have secured

this right for us to drink in the United

States and this precedent case I read

this this quote that you you said this

has been a time of indescribable stress

and sadness for me the effect of all

this has produced tremendous strain on

my family my personal health and to some

degree my religious faith it’s it it’s

war you know it really seems like award

I mean we won local s so Jeffrey I

really want to know for you and in your

own personal experience and how long

have you been drinking Cetina my first

case of the UDV in July of 1990 we’re

now October of 2016 so I’ve been at this

for over 26 years yeah what is something

that you’ve has been shown to you or

that you have realized through drinking

the tea for as long as you have been

drinking what I noticed at the beginning

and I think in some ways that’s a very

important time as we come out of one

stage of life and into what will be the

the next developing stages of our life

was an increase of my own intuition and

increase of my own sensibility and

sensitivity I I believe in the UDV

teaches that each one of us have a

conscience and within our conscience is

a connection to a higher intelligence a

higher sense of order a higher awareness

and so I felt my intuition growing as a

result of my early experiences drinking

the tea and over the 26 years that

because that has become something that I

aspire to live with is the awareness of

my awakened sensitivity to the world

around me

conversations with people and the work

that I choose to do in what I call to do

every day from the moment I opened my

eyes in the morning until I go to rest

at night and then even in my dreams

sometimes to work within this awareness

of maintaining my connection to the

sacred to this higher consciousness and

bringing it into into practice into

action in my life so over 26 years it’s

it’s hard to distinguish you know one

thing or another finger then so so so

many things that have happened to me but

the general progression has been one of

greater connectivity greater happiness

more friends more ease and more peace in

my life and more joy so Jeffrey it’s not

just about the tea it’s also about this

community and these people who actually

love and care for you I remember I

remember my first session with the tea

and I showed up at this church and I

have never been greeted with so much

kindness and love and affection from

complete strangers I immediately felt

more at ease than I ever had in my life

it was so life-altering for me to

experience that to connect with these

people who at the time didn’t know me

and yet had their arms wide open and

just so much love so much outpouring of

support and family soul family I’m so

happy that it was that way for you and I

really hope it’s that way for anybody

who would find their way to come to know

this and I think it’s part of in this

process of awakening and coming to

greater understanding of what it means

to be human and greater understanding of

the laws that govern the human

experience I believe that the awareness

comes that the fundamental principle of

life is that we’re here to love we’re

here to love we’re here to serve we’re

here to care for one another and the

more spiritually awakened the person

becomes the more that becomes the

fundamental mandate of their life and I

was talking about this the other day we

were talking about the evolution from

Judaism into Christianity which which

Jesus

as a guide to to take people into the

next level of the human awareness and in

that era and at that time there were

hundreds of laws and regulations that

were practiced within the you know the

the religion the face of that time and

Jesus came in a sense to to clarify to

simplify that and and he said that the

the essence of the lies is one you know

and I guess it became known as the

golden rule to love God above all things

and to love the other if you love

yourself and that simple practice is

something that the more awakened we

become the more that imperative to love

I think starts to guide us and so you

can encounter that with people who are

genuinely and sincerely interested in

you and caring about you and wanting to

welcome you because they want to extend

to you the care and the love that

they’ve been treated with in their walk

in their practice as well that’s very

profound what you’re everything you’re

saying and is there something that you

know there I noticed with with the show

and we do cover

whoahhh sky and we do cover this type of

topic so I get many messages where

people are seeking the tea they’re

looking for the tea and there has almost

been a sort of migration that has

happened towards an actual medicine

outside of the Western medical systems

that where people can they feel that

this this tea can change their lives and

I think every story that I’ve heard

about someone traveling to brew and

spending you know four or five thousand

dollars to go there and drink with a

shaman there there there seems to it’s

almost becoming sort of a trend for

people of my generation that that are

are seeking something more than than

just the ordinary and and the same

answers that we’ve we’ve always gotten

and we’re just searching for more we’re

searching for the truth and so my

question to anyone listening to this

this show and listening to us how can we

become more in tune with our

consciousness and our own desires and

our own needs and what we need to do for

ourselves and for Humanity oh that’s a

huge question I mean I feel that the

there’s a universal truth that has

reflected in in so many of the religions

of the world and so many spiritual

practices of the world and I think

people who find that truth find

resonance with people from different

faiths or from very different cultures

because we live according to the same

basic principles when we come to

understand the the purpose of life when

we come to understand the essence of

life and the meaning of life and so I

think that this quest that has been

evolving where people have been called

to now that the awareness that this

possibility exists has been brought to

greater awareness I mean I was in a

conference in Spain in 2014 that was

centered around the use of this key was

called the globalization of ayahuasca

conference the first international

conference on this topic and there were

people from over 70 countries there

hundreds of people who are interested in

learning more about this tea and I’m

going to be in a couple of weeks going

down to Rio Branco Brazil where there’s

going to be the second conference and

people again from all over the world in

different cultures coming and because

where this conference is occurring it’s

actually taking place in the Amazon

region there are people from tribal

cultures and shamanic healers and people

from different ways of working with this

sacred tea who are going to be coming

and and presenting at the conference and

and I think that the repercussions of

that are going to be very powerful and

many more people are going to learn

about this and as often happens with our

tendencies which sometimes are needing

to improve and that they’re they’re not

everybody who works with the tea does it

the same degree of integrity does with

the same degree of care does it with the

same degree of consciousness and so it’s

not just the tea itself that brings

about the transformation and this is a

point

we we really but I hope people can

understand and that I always try to

strive to clarify the T itself is a tool

but it’s a tool or a key shall we say

that could open many different doors and

it’s it’s which doors get opened and how

a person is directed and conducted

within the ritual that really brings

about the change of life so what we

teach about in the UDV is it’s the T

it’s the teachings to come from the

mastery and from the masteries that he

taught who have taught other masters who

today carry these teachings forward the

doctrine which is about the changes that

we need to make in our life to have

greater equilibrium to have greater

health to have greater harmony in our

lives and then there’s what you spoke of

before the the friendship the community

of love where we live these principles

and when we make these practice and all

of those elements are vital so it’s not

just drinking the tea itself and there

been unfortunate incidences where people

spend a lot of money and they’ve

traveled down to the Amazon and they’ve

had an experience that was not positive

for them and and I know people who have

returned very disoriented from that so

the tea in and of itself is not a

cure-all it is something that has the

potential to bring great goodness and

great benefit but it depends where you

receive it and one context you receive

it and how you’re instructed to work

with it that brings about the real

change hmm yeah Wow such a powerful

powerful tool such a powerful thing such

a powerful organization Geoffrey I think

I could sit here all day and and kind of

inquire more and more about what’s going

on with you and the tea and and

consciousness I feel very honored to I

don’t think that you give many of these

interviews so I’m very very honored to

have you here and to discuss the case

and and what the UDV is doing as a

community and and for humanity and and

for consciousness and I feel that it’s

very early in these stages as an

organization it is still quite quite

young so we have we have a long road

ahead and I believe that this

organization can help many many people

Jeffrey it’s truly an honor sir I mean

is there anything that you would like to

give to anyone listening advice and

anything that you would like to kind of

have a moment to say to anyone that

might be listening to thank you you know

for the opportunity to to offer

something in this way and I just really

want to say that for people to recognize

that the privilege of being alive is a

sacred gift that has come to each one of

us from the divine intelligence and that

our life is filled with meaning and that

we each have a purpose that we have come

on to this earth in order to realize

ultimately that purpose being to awaken

spiritually and come to understand our

relationship to this infinite divine

power which is filled with light which

is light which is peace which is love

and this is our destiny this is our

inheritance and so if people are finding

that their experiences is unsatisfying

or hard or they’re finding they’re in a

time of uncertainty I just want to offer

the reassurance that there is great hope

and great reason for for for knowing

that there’s something awaiting you

something that can fulfill you something

that will be the answer to your prayers

something that will teach you how to

live in harmony with the beauty that’s

all around us and that this this is

really what awaits each one of us and I

just can offer this with certainty and

and reassurance that we were on a

journey that will take us to a place of

more beauty and more happiness than we

could ever know ever imagined and that

this is what what awaits us in this

rising new day of humanity that’s begun

Jeffrey there’s there’s such an amazing

potency to your words and I I’m I’m at a

loss for them actually I’m so thankful

for your presence here for the work that

you’ve done and for for fighting this

battle for us so that we we do have this

opportunity to express religious freedom

and take part in this in this sacrament

Jeffrey where can where can people find

more about the UDV

if they’re interested in

when listening to this conversation

we’ll be interested in finding more

about beauty D yeah there’s a website

that’s UDV cambiar and that’s where you

could find out more information and then

there’s also a UDV usa.com website that

explains about some of our work in the

United States so there’s that’s where

the information I think is for people to

come and and find and then if there’s a

place in the local community where

people live there’s information about

that where the communities are where the

groups are that they could find on the

website amazing Jeffrey my good sir it’s

really been a pleasure and honor I can’t

thank you enough for for being here

being open with this whole story it’s

very remarkable and again thank you for

the work you’ve done you continue to do

and your presence today it’s my pleasure

and and I it’s part of my joy to be able

to share this I’ve benefited so much

I’ve learned so much and to be able to

share this with other people and open

this possibility for others is really my

happiness we worked really hard to be

able to have this right to secure this

right but as I was saying before it

wasn’t just for us it’s to make it

possible to bring about a change in

humanity because we really need this we

need reorientation we need to have

better understanding about how to live

well on this earth and I’m grateful to

be part of this movement of awakening

that’s happening and honored to be able

to do in some small way to tell people

about this practice and and extend

shared my experience love it I have a

big big smile on my face Jeffrey thank

you again

this is the human experience guys we

will see you guys next week thank you

guys so much for listening