research I like to get out in the field
roll my sleeves up if I need to go scuba
diving for seven years I’ll do that as I
did from my book underworld and in this
case I needed to go and take
psychedelics in the Amazon jungle course
it took me to the Pyramids of Giza and I
found myself one one morning standing in
front of the Great Pyramid of Giza this
gigantic structure looming above me 480
feet high you know 13 acre footprint 6
million tons of incredibly precisely
engineered stone and I just thought wow
you know what the hell is this and with
my non-fiction works for which I’m best
known I’ve also written a number of
novels really in the fantasy adventure
genre which combined my interests in
altered states of consciousness and in
historical mystery look at what they do
look at what they actually do look at
the burnings at the stake looking at
look at the stoning to death of of women
look at the the behavior that is
encouraged look at the division to
hatred the fear a suspicion that
multipliers around the world connected
to these three religions and you might
begin to wonder whether the Gnostics
aren’t in fact right and whether we’ve
been misled by some demonic force for
the last 2,000 years that has cleverly
more than 2000 years this is the God of
Abraham we’re talking about here that
has cleverly convinced us that it is God
when in fact it’s a it’s a demon and how
more effectively could a demon operate
than that
what’s up folks
Xavier katana here you are listening to
the human experience podcast we’re gonna
try something a little bit different
we’re going to dig into the treasure
chest the archives and we’re gonna play
a gem one of our earlier episodes that
you may or may not have heard yet and
the episode that we have chosen to do
this with is mr. Granville if you don’t
know who Graham Hancock is you are about
to find out as someone once told me the
true test of anything is time and this
episode ladies and gentlemen is timeless
you are really going to enjoy this one
this is one of our favorite favorite
episodes please get to us on Twitter at
the human XP we post some of the most
amazing content you have ever seen thank
you so much for listening ladies and
gentlemen here is mr. grant Hancock
[Music]the human experience is examining the
antiquity of civilization as we welcome
my guest mr. Graham Hancock mr. Hancock
it is truly an honor sir welcome to hxp
thanks good to be with you mr. Hancock
you are the John Luke Picard of
archaeology and the Graham Hancock of
psychedelics and consciousness
exploration but for the people that may
not know that already can you very
briefly introduce who you are and what
you do please okay well I am Graham
Hancock I am a writer
I’ve been writing books for many many
many years I used to be a journalist I
was involved in current affairs for a
long time but back in the 1980s I
stumbled across an archaeological
mystery while reporting on current
events in Ethiopia and that mystery
concerned the Ark of the Covenant which
as in Raiders of the Lost Ark which
Ethiopia claims to possess and a
scholars at the time dismissed the whole
Ethiopian claim to possess the ark but I
kept coming across pieces of information
that lent support to it and gradually I
got drawn into an investigation of this
mystery which were decidedly had nothing
to do with current affairs and was all
to do with the ancient past and that
ended up in 1992 with my first book of
historical mystery called the sign and
the seal a quest for the Lost Ark of the
Covenant and by then I was disenchanted
with the present and intrigued by the
past and by the untold stories of the
past and I went on to write what is
probably my best known book a book
called fingerprints of the guards was
published in 1995 and much to my
surprise it was a huge worldwide
sensation and it sold me
of copies I hadn’t expected this to
happen at all and it resulted in a
ferocious academic backlash how dare
this journalist claim that there might
be a forgotten episode in human history
how dare he suggests that there might
have been a lost civilization
more than 12,000 years ago historians
and archaeologists were outraged I think
not so much that I had written the book
but that the book had been a success and
had attracted public attention so I had
to deal with that backlash which was as
unexpected as the success of the book
itself but it taught me a thing or two
about this game and about how ferocious
academics are independent defending
their turf and in how difficult it is to
propose effectively a new paradigm in
any area of of science Maureen and I was
proposing a new paradigm about the past
and following on from that I did write a
series of further books exploring and
elaborating on the lost civilization
issue in the early 2000s I became
interested in the mysteries of
consciousness and particularly shamanism
and and the the fundamental mystery of
the book that became supernatural
meetings with the ancient teachers of
mankind which was published in 2005 the
fundamental mystery was incredible
similarities in rock and cave art going
back tens of thousands of years all
around the world amongst cultures that
were not supposed to have been in
contact with one another and as I
investigated the matter it became clear
that I was looking at shamanistic art
that this was the work of ancient
shamans shamanism the essence of
shamanism is the trance state altered
deeply altered states of consciousness
and in these deeply altered states of
consciousness shamans in remote
antiquity were experiencing visions
which they depicted on the cave walls
and I I then realized that I could get
out of my armchair I hate armchair
research I like to get out in the field
roll my sleeves up if I need to go scuba
diving for seven years I’ll do that as I
did from my book underworld and in this
case I needed to go and take
psychedelics in the Amazon jungle and so
I went down to the Amazon jungle and had
my first eleven experiences with
ayahuasca the vine of souls the sacred
brew of the Amazon and I immediately
understood exactly where those Upper
Paleolithic artists were coming from
because I was seeing the kind of things
that they depicted and and then the
mystery just got deeper and deeper it be
I began to wonder whether whether these
visions these experiences were just you
know quote-unquote
hallucinations or whether there was
something much more substantial to them
some really deep mystery of human
consciousness here and the possibility
that we might be retuning the receiver
wavelength of the brain and encountering
other levels of reality and the
intelligence conscious entities that
that inhabit them and so this has been a
parallel interest of mine for many years
since 2005 and then last but not least
since I do regard myself fundamentally
as a writer in in tandem with my
non-fiction works for which I’m best
known I’ve also written a number of
novels really in the fantasy adventure
genre which combined my interests in
altered states of consciousness and in
historical mystery yeah yeah do you
think that something has been guiding
this process for you and perhaps maybe
this is a mission that you’re on no I I
don’t I don’t feel I’m guided I feel
that I I feel that I have a natural
curiosity and I have the opportunity
because some of my books have been
successful to choose to investigate the
areas in which my curiosity sends me I
don’t feel I’m on a mission I I feel
it’s it’s it’s it’s my job to raise
questions to look at alternative
of you seriously not in a not in a in a
flimsy
you you know naive kind of way but but
thoroughly and in-depth and to consider
whether these alternative points of view
have merit we live in a society that’s
actually it appears to be very free and
open but in fact in many ways it’s very
structured and controlled there is a
there is a kind of mind control that
operates in our society and that mind
control is based around certain
paradigms of what reality is what the
past is what the human purpose is and I
think I my my job I don’t see it as a
mission but my job is to is to offer a
coherently argued thoroughly documented
alternative point of view and if that
helps to shake other people up and and
get people thinking then it means I’m
doing my my job well yeah you know when
I started this podcast about a year ago
I wrote down three names or so that
would be in the realm of dream guests
for me and you were at the top of that
list so if I sit to say I’m pretty happy
to have you here so let’s back up a
little bit let’s rewind the first time
that you were in Egypt that was for
writing sign in the seal right yes yes
it was I needed to go to Egypt see the
story of the sign and the seal which was
the quest for the Lost Ark of the
Covenant began for me in Ethiopia which
as I told you was a country that I was
initially traveling in as a as a
journalist as a current affairs reporter
it began for me there but with Ethiopian
claimed to possess the Ark and the
specific claim that the Ark of the
Covenant rests in the little sanctuary
chapel beside the Cathedral of Saint
Mary of Zion in Axum in Tigre province
in northern Ethiopia once I began to
investigate this thoroughly it became
necessary to go to two other countries
as well as Ethier it became necessary to
go to Israel of course since the Ark of
the Covenant you know ended up and
finally disappeared from the Temple of
Solomon in Israel and it became
necessary to go to Egypt why because the
Ark of the Covenant cannot
be separated from the figure of Moses
the Old Testament a figure of Moses and
Moses as we know was according to the
Bible at any rate was reared in the
household of the Pharaoh in Egypt that
Pharaoh was probably ramses ii and and
therefore i needed to understand the
egyptian background to moses and whether
that had had any effect on the mysteries
of the Ark of the Covenant and that’s
what first took me to Egypt and took me
to places in Egypt for example the
Temple of Karnak in Upper Egypt where
you can see processions of priests
carrying ark like objects on their
shoulders it took me to the island of
elephant tena near aswan further south
in Egypt where at one point there was a
fully fledged
Jewish temple and this is a mystery
because it was ran in parallel to the
temple of Solomon it wasn’t later than
the Temple of Solomon and and of course
it took me to the Pyramids of Giza and
and I found myself one one morning
standing in front of the Great Pyramid
of Giza this gigantic structure looming
above me 480 feet high you know 13 acre
footprint 6 million tons of incredibly
precisely engineered stone and and I
just thought wow you know what the hell
is this and and when I started to you
know my curiosity was was tickled and I
began to say well what are academics
saying about this and I felt that what
they were saying about it was just
incredibly dismissive and stupid and
didn’t do justice to the power and that
and the majesty and the difficulty of
this thing I mean creating something
like that is not easy and they were you
know they were saying this is what one
of the very first gigantic structures
ever created in Egypt so where was the
background to it where did they where
did these guys learn to do this and
that’s really what set me off on the the
track of
considering the possibility that there
might have been a lost civilization that
we might be seeing a legacy of high
wisdom and knowledge preserved in Egypt
and manifested in the pyramids so I mean
this is by no means an easy topic to
tackle the origins of civilization and
perhaps this this myth but your your
theories start with this flood myth and
it’s highly centric around your work and
you’ve researched many aspects of these
historic floods they’re masking effects
of hiding these civilizations what was
the result of that research and locating
these underwater or civilizations well
okay I mean if if you beginning to
consider the possibility of a lost
civilization before history began you
have to consider the agency by which
that civilization became lost and that
inevitably puts you in evitable puts you
in cataclysmic territory you you you
don’t a civilization doesn’t simply
disappear something has to happen to it
and and I began to look at at the
there’s a lot of information anyway even
in ancient Egypt for example which
points back to a remote period thousands
of years earlier and that’s how I found
myself looking at the Ice Age which set
in 125,000 years ago and reached its
maximum extent about 21,000 years ago
it’s difficult for people to dated to
conceive of how different the world was
you had ice caps that were two miles
deep covering almost the whole of the
northern half of North America
stretching as far south as New York
State and and covering most of northern
Europe mountain high ice caps in areas
that are densely populated and
productive today they’re they were
completely uninhabited at the time they
were ice deserts and there was two miles
of ice sitting on top of the land sea
level as a result was massively lower
sea level was four
hundred feet lower and it is today why
because all the water in those ice caps
had evaporated up out of the oceans
fallen and rain and as as rain and
frozen as as ice the global climate was
very different than from the climate we
have today so so the world looked very
different and huge areas that are now
under water because when all that ice
melted the water went back into the
oceans and sea levels rose by 400 feet
huge areas that are now under water were
above water then and would furthermore
the coastal areas have been the most
desirable lands on earth and it seemed
to me absurd that archeology was forming
a picture of the human past without
really taking account of the ten million
square miles of land about the size of
Europe and China added together that
were flooded at the end of the Ice Age
it did and furthermore the meltdown of
the Ice Age was cataclysmic there was a
slow process between about twenty one
thousand and twelve thousand years ago
twelve thousand eight hundred twelve
thousand nine hundred years ago and then
we have a we have a series of
cataclysmic events that occur and
there’s a particular window between
twelve thousand eight hundred and eleven
thousand six hundred years ago when the
earth just goes into a kind of paroxysm
of extinction level event really and
this was not being taken into account by
historians at all they all felt that
this was prior to the story of human
civilization that all human
civilizations had begun to emerge after
that and and I was contemplating the
possibility that as all the legends and
myths of the world suggest that there
was an episode of high civilization
before that and that therefore it it had
been wiped from human memory during
those cataclysms around 12,000 years ago
so this ultimately took me on seven
years of scuba diving expeditions
looking at structures an underwater down
to a hundred and twenty feet underwater
we need to go deeper but a hundred and
twenty feet is about as far as you can
go with normal scuba gear otherwise
you’d have to get into technical diving
I never did that I became pretty good
scuba diving but I never went below 120
feet in in depth with mixed gases and
technical diving equipment and so on but
but again it was it was a matter of
putting myself into the subject taking
taking the risks and going to see
whether there was indeed anything
mysterious underwater and you can be
absolutely sure there is there is a
great deal of mysterious structures
under water and often local fishing
communities and local divers know about
them so I had local people in India in
Japan in the Bahamas in the
Mediterranean in the Pacific who helped
me find the structures that I was
looking for what did you what did you
find out there um well off the northwest
coast of India there’s two huge cities
underwater in the Gulf of Cambay at a
depth of 40 meters at more than 120 feet
southeast coast of india Mahabalipuram
and kandahar again down 100 to 110 feet
underwater enormous man-made structures
Japan Yonaguni a whole area of
structures cut from solid rock which
will last above water more than 12,000
years ago further north in Japan off
Okinawa giant stone circles 110 feet
under water off of karamja particularly
an island called akka Jima in the mid
Pacific in Micronesia you have a
mysterious structure above water called
nan Madol but if you go underwater there
you find that it continues down and it
just goes all the way down to the bottom
of the bay and then there are huge
columns some standing some fall and none
of this has been taken account of by
archeology we found structures in Malta
Malta is famous for its megalithic
monuments there are huge megalithic
temples and I think those temples which
archaeology likes to date to five or six
thousand years ago are in fact much
older because we found
are there such structures underwater in
areas that were last above water more
than 12,000 years ago
there’s a famous phenomenon in Malta
called the cart ruts of course they’re
not cart ruts but there are parallel we
like grooves cut into the rock of the
island of Malta and these sometimes just
stop at the edge of cliffs but if you
then go underwater there you find that
they continue on the other side they
continue underwater and again they go
down to the maximum depth that we were
able to dive as scuba divers and
probably a good deal beyond that so it’s
really all over the world this is this
phenomenon and eventually I wrote a book
about it called underworld flooded
kingdoms of the Ice Age that was
published in 2002 you’ve talked about a
numeric code that coincides with the
longitudinal axis and the number of lost
civilizations around the world and this
code seems to be scattered through
religious myth and lore where does this
code come from and was it pointing to
well there there is a phenomenon as an
astronomical phenomenon actually called
the precession of the equinoxes there’s
something else that my research has
forced me to do because the ancients did
it is to come to terms with astronomy
and to begin to understand the apparent
motions of the of the heavens what the
theory is this may not be the causative
agent but the theory is that there is a
wobble on the axis of the earth it’s
rather like if you set a top spinning
and leave it to spin for a while the
spin will begin to decay and the top
begins to wobble can you envisage that
and that the the top part of the top
begins to transcriber
a circle in its own right it seems that
the earth does this and the theory is
that it’s caused by the opposite
gravitational pulls of the Sun and the
moon on the earth there may be a whole
other explanation for it but in a sense
that doesn’t matter what matters is the
observation and the observation because
the earth is the viewing platform from
which we observe the Stars
changes in the orientation of the
viewing platform will result in changes
in the rising and setting times of stars
at particular times of year and indeed
in the orientations of the stars in the
sky it’s not the stars that are moving
it’s the earth that’s moving but it
gives the illusion of the stars moving
of course all the stars are moving as
well they have their own proper motion
but they’re so distant from us that
those movements are really unfold over
periods of hundreds of thousands or
millions of years precession the the
wobble on the Earth’s axis creates
changes in the star field in the
observed star field in in a much shorter
time but in every 72 years you complete
a one degree shift and when you multiply
this by three the 360 degrees in a full
circle you get twenty five thousand nine
hundred and twenty years this is the
that what is what the ancients called
the great year the the period in which
the star patterns revert to their
starting point so you’ve got a grand
cycle of change in the heavens that
operates at a very specific rate which
is one degree every 72 years now that’s
quite hard to observe one degree is
about the width of your finger held up
to the horizon so you know you really
need many human lifetimes and accurate
records to be kept to really notice this
and to realize that some kind of process
is going on and then to go further from
that and to be able to predict how the
star field will look thousands of years
in the future or how it looked as of
years in the past
you need a lot more observation you need
science actually and and this is the
puzzle because the numbers related to
the pre-sesh what’s called the
precession of the equinoxes based on the
number 72 a whole sequence of numbers
for example 72 plus 36 is a hundred and
eight half of 108 is 54 72 times 30
gives you two thousand one hundred and
sixty it takes two thousand one hundred
and sixty for the Sun on the equinoxes
to pass through
one complete sign of the zodiac the 12
constellations of the zodiac I in a belt
around the path of the Sun and and all
these numbers based on the heart the
heartbeat of the system is the number 72
all these numbers crop up in very
ancient myths from all around the world
and the myths themselves frequently
described in symbolic terms a process
that is unmistakably precession this
this phenomenon that we call precession
and a really fantastic study was done of
this by two really top-grade scholars
Georgia Toussaint Indiana who was the
professor of the history of science at
the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology through into the 1960s and
hearth of on desh and who was a
professor of the history of science at
Frankfurt University the book is called
Hamlet’s mill and it finally came to the
conclusion that what they described as
some almost unbelievable ancestor
civilization thousands and thousands of
years in the past had scientifically
observed and recorded the precession had
felt that it was important for some
reason and had devised stories that
would be passed down by word of mouth
from generation to generation which
incorporated accurate scientific
knowledge of this phenomenon and and
they made the point that it really
didn’t matter whether the storyteller
knew what he or she was passing on so
long as they told the story true and
repeated the sequence of numbers that
was within the story then the
information would be passed on until
such a time as another civilization
could arise which would be able to
decode this information and that’s why
it’s interesting that the same sequence
of numbers that we find in ancient myths
appears in ancient monuments for example
2160 years is the time it takes for the
equinoxes sun to precess through one
house of the zodiac two houses of the
zodiac is four thousand three hundred
and twenty years multiply four thousand
three hundred and twenty by 10 and you
get forty three thousand
200 so we have to ask ourselves whether
it’s a coincidence or whether there’s
something extraordinary going on that
the Great Pyramid is a scale model of a
hemisphere of the earth on the scale of
one to 43,200 in other words if you take
the height of the Great Pyramid and
multiply it by forty three thousand two
hundred you get the polar radius of the
earth you get a printout an exact
precise scientific printout of a key
dimension of our planet which was not
supposed to even be known until
relatively recent times and if you
measure the base perimeter of the Great
Pyramid and multiply it by the same
number forty-three thousand two hundred
which is one of those numbers found in
ancient myth all around the world you
get the equatorial circumference of the
earth it appears that the Great Pyramid
one of the things it is is a scale model
of a northern hemisphere of the earth on
a scale of one to forty two thousand two
hundred and therefore if that’s so and I
believe it is then it’s telling us
absolutely that we are looking at the
work of a high civilization so so the
I’m glad you brought it back to the
pyramids because the Robert Bauval
discovery was incredibly important in
Egypt the Giza pyramids line up with
Ryan and they line up with a Ryan
although that does happen it’s a very
Roberto Val’s discovery the Orion
correlation theory is is I believe one
of the most important discoveries in the
study of ancient Egypt that has ever
been made it’s it’s it’s almost as
valuable as the Rosetta Stone and the
deciphering of the ancient Egyptian
hieroglyphs because suddenly we can
begin to understand what is going on
first of all it’s important to know that
the constellation of Orion mattered to
the ancient Egyptians this was not just
any random constellation when the
ancient Egyptians looked at the
constellation of Orion which they called
Saru they envisaged it as the celestial
figure of their deity Osiris and there’s
a whole
raft of Mythology about Osiris who is a
bringer of civilization to Egypt in a
remote period that they call Zep tepi
the first time thousands of years in the
in the past and and Osiris the whole
mythology of Osiris becomes linked to
the to the story of the ancient Egyptian
pharaohs so that each pharaoh on his
death became identified with Osiris
Orion with the constellation of Orion in
the sky and and therefore if if we’re
saying as Robert does that the Egyptian
pyramids have an intimate connection
with the constellation of Orion this
actually makes perfect sense because the
constellation of Orion was the single
most important constellation in the
ancient Egyptian sky secondly the
relationship is complicated there are
four narrow shafts that cut up through
the body of the Great Pyramid to from
the King’s Chamber and to from the
Queen’s Chamber and the two one from the
King’s Chamber the southern shaft from
the King’s Chamber targets the lowest of
the three stars of the belt of Orion and
the southern shaft of the Queen’s
Chamber targets the star Sirius which
the ancient Egyptians associated with
the goddess Isis the consort of Osiris
but the interesting thing is that that
targeting of those stars once we can we
can look at ancient skies now with
modern computer programs we can see
exactly how they looked exactly the
height and declension of each of the
stars in the sky at any period in the
past we wish and that alignment of the
shafts of the Great Pyramid with Sirius
and with the stars of Orion’s belt is
very firmly set in the epoch of around
2500 BC which is exactly the e-book that
Egyptologists say the pyramids were
built so it’s intriguing but that in
itself does not rewrite history but
there’s a second observation that Robert
made and that Robert and I went on to
refine together in a book called the
of the Sphinx which which is different
and this is that when you look at the
pattern of the three pyramids on the
ground and their relationship to north
and south they are actually imaging on
the ground in three dimensions the three
belt stars of the constellation of Orion
not as they looked in 2500 BC and as
they looked in 10500 BC twelve and a
half thousand years ago right back in
that cataclysmic episode when the ice
age was melting down and then the the
project that we went on to explore
together concerns the Great Sphinx of
Giza which stands very close to the
Great Pyramid the Great Sphinx is
oriented perfectly Jew East it’s in the
shape of a lion with a human head we
think that the human head was a result
of a recurving in historical times of
what had once been a layer nine head and
the Great Sphinx looks at the
constellation of Leo the Lion its own
celestial counterpart the resemblance is
uncanny again in that remote epoch of
10,500 BC at the spring equinox when the
Sun rises perfectly juist in line with
the gaze of the Sphinx so two messages
appear to being to be being sent by the
Giza Monument one monuments one speaks
of the epoch of 2500 BC which is
interesting but not controversial and
the other speaks of the epoch an epoch
much earlier 8,000 years earlier
10500 BC twelve and a half thousand
years ago and we think this is the epoch
that the ancient Egyptians called Zep
tepi the first time and and so we have a
nuanced site here there is much about
the sited Giza that can reliably and
consistently be attributed to the
Pharaohs of historical Egypt but there
are structures on that site we think the
base the base platforms of the three
pyramids over which the pyramids were
later built and completed we think the
megalithic temples at Giza the so-called
valley and mortuary temples and of
course we think the Great Sphinx and
here Robert shox work on the geology of
the Sphinx and on the weathering
patterns of the Sphinx which show that
it was exposed to thousands of years of
heavy rainfall comes into play that
these factors suggest to us that some of
the monuments on the Giza Plateau
not only commemorate a date that is 12
and a half thousand years in the past
but actually were created there and if
they were created then then a history
really has a problem because that is not
supposed at that time twelve and a half
thousand years ago our ancestors are
supposed to have been simple
hunter-gatherers without the competence
or the will or the motivation to create
gigantic megalithic architectural
structures and and when these two ideas
are brought together the the idea of the
precipitation induced weathering of the
Sphinx that was put forward by John
Anthony West initially and then by
professor Robert Schoch at Boston
University and the idea of the stellar
alignments of the as above so below
pattern that is being replicated by the
monuments on the ground which also
speaks of a remotely but when these two
ideas are brought together you begin to
you begin to sense that something about
Giza is fantastically old and deeply
deeply mysterious and this troubled
Egyptologists a lot they didn’t like it
because it was a well argued thoroughly
presented a group of theories and they
they sought to dismiss it and they said
you know how could that how could the
Sphinx possibly be twelve and a half
thousand years old
our ancestors were hunter-gatherers then
you notice the kind of circular logic
that they go into they take their
reference frame as though it’s a fact
and then use it to throw away any
contradictory evidence how could the
Sphinx possibly be twelve and a half
thousand years old there’s no other
large scale monument any anywhere in the
world that that’s that is that old and
and that’s why the much more recent
discovery of a gigantic megalithic site
in Turkey called gobekli tepe which was
deliberately buried by whichever
mysterious people made it that sealed
like a time capsule and left untouched
for more than 10,000 years that’s why
the discovery of Gobekli Tepe is so
important because the
of that site is absolutely reliable it
has been done by the German
archaeological Institute there is no
question of the intrusion of later
organic materials you can’t date stone
you can only date organic materials with
carpeting that site is definitively in
the range of 12,000 years old it’s 7,000
years older than Stonehenge and the
whole site so far only a tiny fraction
of it has been excavated the rest has
been imaged by ground-penetrating radar
the whole site is about 50 times larger
than Stonehenge it’s astonishingly
sophisticated it is 12,000 years old and
now the argument about the Sphinx has to
be taken up again
Egyptology cannot dismiss it because
there are other sites now in the world
there’s another one in Indonesia that
I’ve done a couple of research visits to
called good and Padang which again looks
like it’s 12,000 or more years old and I
think we are poised on the edge of a
paradigm shift where more and more new
evidence comes into play which cannot be
explained by the previous theory of
history and which requires a new theory
of history requires us to recognize the
possibility that there has actually been
a lost civilization that its
disappearance is connected to the
cataclysms at the end of the last ice
age that there were survivors and that
they sought to pass down their knowledge
to the future and that’s why I’ve just
spent the last three years researching
and writing a completely new book called
magicians of the gods which is the
sequel to fingerprints of the gods it’s
not a revised edition of fingerprints of
the gods it’s a completely new book 500
pages long filled with new information
from front to back because what’s
happened in the last 20 years and
fingerprints was published 20 years ago
is that just a mass of exciting new
information as emerged much of which is
not yet in the public domain and in
magicians of the gods I seek to put this
in the public domain and there is some
information on magician’s of the gods on
my website if you go to WWE my anchor
dot-com you’ll see from the opening page
and immediate link to magicians of the
gods it’s being published in Britain on
the 10th of September in America the
publication date is presently listed as
February 2016 but I’m optimistic that
the publishers will bring that forward
to November and that book is already
available for pre-order on amazon.com
and my feeling is that you know Robert
Schoch and and Robert Bauval are also
working on a book looking specifically
at the Sphinx and I think that what what
is happening is that the whole group of
us who worked in this field 20 years ago
and who were radically attacked for
considering this extraordinary
possibility that we are now reaching a
point where our the case that we may
which was ridiculed at the time is being
vindicated by my new evidence so I think
it’s a very exciting moment I think it
raises questions over everything that we
imagine human civilization to be about
when we acknowledge that either through
misinformation misdirection the history
of our species has been either hidden
from us through stupidity or you know
whatever it is it can you say that this
is some level of spiritual warfare well
I have to consider that possibility
because of my other interests which are
my interests in shamanism and an altered
states of consciousness which have have
convinced me that reality is much more
complicated than you know our five
senses might lead us to believe that we
are immersed in an invisible reality and
that reality has an impact and an
influence upon us whether we like it or
not this is the whole essence of
shamanism the notion of a spirit world
which which influences and impacts the
human race and shamans are those amongst
us who seek to be proactive about this
and to and to enter into the realm of
spirits and negotiate with spirits on
their own on their own terms and just as
there is good and evil in the material
realm in the physical world the
you know you and I live our daily lives
in the whole framework of shamanism
we’ll also tell you that there is good
and evil in the in the spiritual realm
and that that there are dark and
negative entities out there whose sole
purpose is to delude and mislead the
human race and moving away from from
shamanism if you go back to the ancient
system called Gnosticism you will find
that the same idea prevails there now
the Gnosticism was stamped out by the
Christian Church in the early centuries
of the Christian era horrendous
persecutions were unleashed upon those
who called themselves Gnostics who
believed in a revealed knowledge that
that came through visionary experience
the Gnostics absolutely made use of
psychedelic mushrooms in their
investigations of the nature of of
reality but enough of the Gnostic
material has survived thanks largely to
a library of Gnostic texts in fact
they’re referred to you can buy you can
buy the Gnostic texts on Amazon it’s
called the NAG Hammadi library edited by
James n M Robinson then the NAG Hammadi
texts at the time of the persecution of
the Gnostics
a group of Gnostics who lived in
southern Egypt near the temple of
dendara took the decision to bury an
entire library of their texts in pottery
jars in the sand and they remained
hidden there from the fourth century AD
until 1945 when they were found by
chance and they’ve since since been
translated and I would urge anybody
who’s interested in the mysteries of
existence to go and get the NAG Hammadi
library James and Robinson Edition the
full translation of the Gnostic texts
and it’s an utter revelation they turn
everything upside down I mean from the
Gnostic point of view we had been
deluded for the last 2,000 years the
entity that we have been taught to
worshippers as God Christians Muslims
Jews the the God of Abraham we all
supposedly are taught to worship the
same entity with
call him different names from the
Gnostic point of view this entity this
creature is not a God at all he’s a he’s
a demon he’s the the he’s a pretender
he’s an impostor
he’s persuaded us to believe that he is
God and to worship Him he’s got a huge
overblown ego
he’s extremely jealous he persuades
human beings constantly to harm and hurt
one another his whole purpose is to keep
us in darkness and prevent us from
realizing the divine spark within us so
you know this is a profoundly
revolutionary system of ideas and you
can understand why the Christians
particularly in the form of the Roman
Catholic Church were so vigorous in
their persecution of the Gnostics and
sought to stamp them out because once
you really start to think about Gnostic
ideas because what the Gnostics are
saying don’t look at what these guys say
you know Christianity Judaism Islam they
all talk the talk of peace and love look
at what they do look at what they
actually do look at the burnings at a
stake looking at look at the stoning to
death of of women look at the the
behavior that is encouraged look at the
division the hatred the fear a suspicion
that multipliers around the world
connected to these three religions and
you might begin to wonder whether the
Gnostics aren’t in fact right and
whether we’ve been misled by some
demonic force for the last two thousand
years that has cleverly more than two
thousand years this is the God of
Abraham we’re talking about here that
has cleverly convinced us that it is God
when in fact it’s a it’s a demon and how
more effectively could a demon operate
than that and this is not me saying this
this is the whole essence of Gnosticism
and of the revelation of Gnosticism and
it’s really worth looking into now I’m
not saying whether they’re right or
wrong I leave that up to two others to
decide each of us in our own way looking
at the story of the world but the notion
that there might be dark spiritual
forces at work there the Gnostics
envisage evil angels that
call archons witch mingle amongst men
and mislead us into all manner of crimes
and actions that are hostile to the
nature of the soul they even look like
human beings they might be some of our
politicians actually and you know it’s a
framework of analysis of the human
condition that certainly is worth
considering and taking seriously given
the state of the world that we find
ourselves in today
yeah Wow mr. Hancock truly an honor to
speak with you but I mean what do you
feel a shift in our in consciousness or
of this paradigm within a culture that
subsist with materialism television
drunkenness
what would a shift in consciousness look
like how how can we recognize that this
is occurring often when you’re in the
middle of something is difficult to see
it but I would say we’re in the middle
of a shift in consciousness right now I
think it’s happening all around the
world the old paradigm of which the
historical paradigm is a part is still
very powerful but it isn’t any longer it
doesn’t any longer have a monopoly there
is such a spread of information now the
the Internet has had an unforeseen
consequences people are able to
communicate with one another directly
without going through the the medium of
the big media you know we can be in
direct contact with one another we can
form communities of ideas in
increasingly notions that we are we are
taught to honor and revere such as
patriotism seem to become absurd but
patriotism is indeed the last refuge of
the scoundrel after all why should we
feel especially loyal to a fellow human
being just because they happen to be
born under the same bloody government or
on the same piece of land as us what’s
so special about that an accident of
birth why should we why should we pin
our loyalty on that why are we not
willing to recognize that we are all
members of the human family that we owe
that patriotic loyalty to the whole
human race
not to just a tiny segmented you know
sectored part of it this this idea is
coming with the internet because
communities of ideas are forming around
the world regardless of the color of
your skin or the religion into which you
were born or the political system into
which by accident you were born or the
land on which biased and you were born
the old paradigm says those things are
really important that new paradigm says
what’s important is the ideas we share
and our common and our shared humanity
that we are actually all brothers and
sisters and that we will not be divided
by these these malicious malign notions
that limit our humanity and that limit
the capacity of love so the old paradigm
operates on fear it seeks to make people
fearful and suspicious of one another
and it uses knee-jerk mechanisms like
patriotism or this is your religion why
should anybody actually accept a
religion just because they happen to be
born into it you know if there is a God
he gave us a brain why don’t we use it
you know why do we just this our parents
told us that something is so and we just
have to we just accept that as though
it’s so we don’t ask any questions about
it I think the new paradigm is asking a
lot of questions and people are all
around the world developing a new kind
of spirituality which is much more
individualistic but at the same time
respects and honors the spirituality of
others so I think we are in the middle
of a dramatic shift in consciousness and
I think two three hundred years from now
when historians look back on this epoch
that we are privileged to live through
they will realize that it was a moment
of incredible importance in the story of
the human race it’s not certain what the
outcome is going to be the old negative
forces are still very powerful but the
light is growing amongst humanity and we
are waking up all around the world and
we are refusing to put up with that
bullshit any longer that has been
stuffed into our ears and down our
throats for centuries the Internet’s
playing a huge role in this and
psychedelics are also playing a huge
role in it and that’s why psychedelics
are illegal and
in psychedelics are really not dangerous
they can be misused of course and I’m
not advocating that the irresponsible
use of psychedelics but but by
comparison with pharmaceutical drugs the
number of deaths caused by psychedelics
is tiny miniscule almost unmeasurable
you know whereas the the antidepressants
and and and indeed acetaminophen you
know pet painkiller kills thousands of
people every every year even in tiny
Britain 3,000 people a year are killed
by a set of mean ofin that’s not illegal
you know but but alcohol glorified by
our society widely available advertised
promoted kills thousands of people every
year not just cirrhosis of the liver but
considered the road accidents so the
arguments that you know we are being
protected from ourselves by our
governments who tell us that we may not
take psychedelics and if they do they
will send us to prison and ruin our
lives is absurd hypocritical argument
it’s it’s a crazy argument the real
reason that psychedelics are are so
demonized in Western society is because
somebody up there in the power
structures know that these ancient
natural allies of humanity lead us to
ask deep searching questions about the
kind of society we live in and that
controlling powers the dominated powers
that run our societies do not want us
asking questions about anything they
don’t want us asking questions about the
nature of reality they don’t want us
asking questions about spirituality they
don’t want us asking questions about
materialism they just want us to go on
mindlessly like robots uncomplaining
robots producing and consuming producing
and consuming feeding the machine
instead of realizing our humanity and
that’s what’s that’s what’s changing
that’s where the great hope lies in the
future and it’s up to us the choices the
choice is ours we actually don’t have to
put up with that shit any longer you
know we can make change but it takes it
takes courage and and and and it takes a
sharing of information love it man love
it we are we’re running out of time here
miss Hancock I have one more question
for you
if and you answered a bunch of my
questions was scrolling through health
and would love it if you could go back
20 years and tell your younger self one
thing what would it be
um don’t be afraid you know don’t be
don’t be afraid don’t let don’t let fear
govern your decisions that would be that
would be one important thing and another
important thing is to remember that love
is the opposite of fear and but that’s
that is what we are really here to do
we’re here to to give and to share love
and and that means considering the needs
of other people and and considering them
carefully not being totally out for
oneself but but looking to be a
nurturing and positive influence on
others in our immediate circle I I think
these are the most important messages
send away fear and manifest love and the
world will become a better place mr.
Hancock sir thank you so much for being
here where can people find your work
your book pre-order it where can they
get that Amazon well yeah I mean it’s
it’s it’s up for the new book is that
for pre-order on amazon.com and Amazon
UK but the access the quickest access to
that is through my website which is
Graham Hancock dot-com and then I’m also
so go to that and you’ll see immediately
a link to the some information about the
new book magicians of the Gods but I’m
also quite active on on Facebook I find
I find Facebook a very important and
effective means to communicate with
like-minded individuals I have two
Facebook pages I have a personal page
which has got 5,000 friends and about
30,000 followers but my author page is
really the most effective and there
that’s got I don’t know two hundred and
twenty-two thousand followers that’s how
likes that’s how to recognize it’s great
I can’t remember how it is but actually
there’s a link to it on the front page
of my website and I actually post the
same information on both my Facebook
pages and I communicate quite actively
on those pages and I’ve found it a very
very
an effective way to share ideas we will
make sure that people get to your book
and your Facebook page sir any any final
comments here any last bit of
information we got a few minutes well I
think I just think the most important
thing is to you know is to keep an open
mind it’s a very mysterious matter to be
alive at all
you know we’re we’re taught to just like
take it for granted like but again this
is when I speak of materialism I’m not
only speaking of the economic side that
it teaches us to produce and consume and
seeks to persuade us that that’s all
there is to life there’s a much deeper
aspect of materialism and this is the
notion that there is nothing more to
reality than the material realm you know
if you can’t weigh it measure it and
touch it then it doesn’t exist this is
this is the idea of many you know really
intelligent scientists are absolutely
committed to the notion of materialism
such scientists for example Richard
Dawkins the author of the book called
The God Delusion and also the book
called The Selfish Gene
Dawkins will tell you straight face that
there is no such thing as life after
death and many people are inclined to
believe him they think Oh God well he’s
a highly qualified scientist so he must
know that about these things he must be
right but actually what does he know you
know has he died and and conducted
experiments and then come back no he
hasn’t this is not a fact this is not a
scientific fact that there’s no life
after death this is a this is a
reference frame it’s a it’s it’s
actually a religious belief because it’s
not based on any evidence whatsoever and
and you know many scientists will tell
you there’s no such thing as spirit the
horrible idea of materialist science is
that consciousness is what they call an
epiphenomenon of brain activity that
consciousness is a kind of accident and
we have these big brains they’ve evolved
to enable us to survive in the jungle of
human competition and as an accidental
byproduct of that we’ve got this thing
called consciousness and again it’s
important to be clear that is not a fact
consciousness is the greatest mystery of
science we don’t know we know that
there’s a connection
between consciousness and the brain but
the exact nature of the connection
between consciousness and the brain is
not at all clear and it may be that the
ancients were right that consciousness
is fundamental to the universe and that
it is essentially non-physical in
character but that in our realm at our
level of existence consciousness
manifests in physical entities so so the
the in a sense the relationship of the
consciousness to the brain is more like
the relationship of the you know the TV
signal to the TV set but the you can
destroy the TV set but the TV signal is
still is still there this I think this
notion that consciousness is primary and
that the realm of matter comes second
that we are spirits we are souls having
a human experience which is a very
ancient idea I think that idea is going
to turn out to be correct and the modern
scientific idea that matter is
everything and that consciousness is
just an accidental byproduct of matter
will turn out to be very foolish and
wrong and again I think people all
around the world are waking up to this
as well it’s a incredible gift to be
born in a human body to have the
experiences that we can have as human
beings and I think that this world I
described it so often as a theater of
experience it’s a place where we come to
learn and to grow and to develop and and
anything that doesn’t serve that process
and the whole structure of Western
society right now does not serve that
process is Majerus and wrong we we need
to understand that we’ve been given an
incredible opportunity to live in a
human body and to make the choices the
fine choices between right and wrong
between good and evil that all of us
have to make every day sometimes at very
small levels sometimes at very high
levels and that we’re here to learn from
making those choices and that we are the
product of our choices let’s not allow
ourselves to be deluded into the belief
that we are just an accidental
combination of molecules and that’s all
there is to us yes our bodies are a
combination of molecules but the
consciousness that’s embedded in those
bodies is
greatest mystery of science and it’s
never been explained mr. Hancock it’s
truly a pleasure to know you sir thank
you so much for being here this is the
human experience thank you guys for
listening we will be back next week