research I like to get out in the field

roll my sleeves up if I need to go scuba

diving for seven years I’ll do that as I

did from my book underworld and in this

case I needed to go and take

psychedelics in the Amazon jungle course

it took me to the Pyramids of Giza and I

found myself one one morning standing in

front of the Great Pyramid of Giza this

gigantic structure looming above me 480

feet high you know 13 acre footprint 6

million tons of incredibly precisely

engineered stone and I just thought wow

you know what the hell is this and with

my non-fiction works for which I’m best

known I’ve also written a number of

novels really in the fantasy adventure

genre which combined my interests in

altered states of consciousness and in

historical mystery look at what they do

look at what they actually do look at

the burnings at the stake looking at

look at the stoning to death of of women

look at the the behavior that is

encouraged look at the division to

hatred the fear a suspicion that

multipliers around the world connected

to these three religions and you might

begin to wonder whether the Gnostics

aren’t in fact right and whether we’ve

been misled by some demonic force for

the last 2,000 years that has cleverly

more than 2000 years this is the God of

Abraham we’re talking about here that

has cleverly convinced us that it is God

when in fact it’s a it’s a demon and how

more effectively could a demon operate

than that

what’s up folks

Xavier katana here you are listening to

the human experience podcast we’re gonna

try something a little bit different

we’re going to dig into the treasure

chest the archives and we’re gonna play

a gem one of our earlier episodes that

you may or may not have heard yet and

the episode that we have chosen to do

this with is mr. Granville if you don’t

know who Graham Hancock is you are about

to find out as someone once told me the

true test of anything is time and this

episode ladies and gentlemen is timeless

you are really going to enjoy this one

this is one of our favorite favorite

episodes please get to us on Twitter at

the human XP we post some of the most

amazing content you have ever seen thank

you so much for listening ladies and

gentlemen here is mr. grant Hancock

[Music]

the human experience is examining the

antiquity of civilization as we welcome

my guest mr. Graham Hancock mr. Hancock

it is truly an honor sir welcome to hxp

thanks good to be with you mr. Hancock

you are the John Luke Picard of

archaeology and the Graham Hancock of

psychedelics and consciousness

exploration but for the people that may

not know that already can you very

briefly introduce who you are and what

you do please okay well I am Graham

Hancock I am a writer

I’ve been writing books for many many

many years I used to be a journalist I

was involved in current affairs for a

long time but back in the 1980s I

stumbled across an archaeological

mystery while reporting on current

events in Ethiopia and that mystery

concerned the Ark of the Covenant which

as in Raiders of the Lost Ark which

Ethiopia claims to possess and a

scholars at the time dismissed the whole

Ethiopian claim to possess the ark but I

kept coming across pieces of information

that lent support to it and gradually I

got drawn into an investigation of this

mystery which were decidedly had nothing

to do with current affairs and was all

to do with the ancient past and that

ended up in 1992 with my first book of

historical mystery called the sign and

the seal a quest for the Lost Ark of the

Covenant and by then I was disenchanted

with the present and intrigued by the

past and by the untold stories of the

past and I went on to write what is

probably my best known book a book

called fingerprints of the guards was

published in 1995 and much to my

surprise it was a huge worldwide

sensation and it sold me

of copies I hadn’t expected this to

happen at all and it resulted in a

ferocious academic backlash how dare

this journalist claim that there might

be a forgotten episode in human history

how dare he suggests that there might

have been a lost civilization

more than 12,000 years ago historians

and archaeologists were outraged I think

not so much that I had written the book

but that the book had been a success and

had attracted public attention so I had

to deal with that backlash which was as

unexpected as the success of the book

itself but it taught me a thing or two

about this game and about how ferocious

academics are independent defending

their turf and in how difficult it is to

propose effectively a new paradigm in

any area of of science Maureen and I was

proposing a new paradigm about the past

and following on from that I did write a

series of further books exploring and

elaborating on the lost civilization

issue in the early 2000s I became

interested in the mysteries of

consciousness and particularly shamanism

and and the the fundamental mystery of

the book that became supernatural

meetings with the ancient teachers of

mankind which was published in 2005 the

fundamental mystery was incredible

similarities in rock and cave art going

back tens of thousands of years all

around the world amongst cultures that

were not supposed to have been in

contact with one another and as I

investigated the matter it became clear

that I was looking at shamanistic art

that this was the work of ancient

shamans shamanism the essence of

shamanism is the trance state altered

deeply altered states of consciousness

and in these deeply altered states of

consciousness shamans in remote

antiquity were experiencing visions

which they depicted on the cave walls

and I I then realized that I could get

out of my armchair I hate armchair

research I like to get out in the field

roll my sleeves up if I need to go scuba

diving for seven years I’ll do that as I

did from my book underworld and in this

case I needed to go and take

psychedelics in the Amazon jungle and so

I went down to the Amazon jungle and had

my first eleven experiences with

ayahuasca the vine of souls the sacred

brew of the Amazon and I immediately

understood exactly where those Upper

Paleolithic artists were coming from

because I was seeing the kind of things

that they depicted and and then the

mystery just got deeper and deeper it be

I began to wonder whether whether these

visions these experiences were just you

know quote-unquote

hallucinations or whether there was

something much more substantial to them

some really deep mystery of human

consciousness here and the possibility

that we might be retuning the receiver

wavelength of the brain and encountering

other levels of reality and the

intelligence conscious entities that

that inhabit them and so this has been a

parallel interest of mine for many years

since 2005 and then last but not least

since I do regard myself fundamentally

as a writer in in tandem with my

non-fiction works for which I’m best

known I’ve also written a number of

novels really in the fantasy adventure

genre which combined my interests in

altered states of consciousness and in

historical mystery yeah yeah do you

think that something has been guiding

this process for you and perhaps maybe

this is a mission that you’re on no I I

don’t I don’t feel I’m guided I feel

that I I feel that I have a natural

curiosity and I have the opportunity

because some of my books have been

successful to choose to investigate the

areas in which my curiosity sends me I

don’t feel I’m on a mission I I feel

it’s it’s it’s it’s my job to raise

questions to look at alternative

of you seriously not in a not in a in a

flimsy

you you know naive kind of way but but

thoroughly and in-depth and to consider

whether these alternative points of view

have merit we live in a society that’s

actually it appears to be very free and

open but in fact in many ways it’s very

structured and controlled there is a

there is a kind of mind control that

operates in our society and that mind

control is based around certain

paradigms of what reality is what the

past is what the human purpose is and I

think I my my job I don’t see it as a

mission but my job is to is to offer a

coherently argued thoroughly documented

alternative point of view and if that

helps to shake other people up and and

get people thinking then it means I’m

doing my my job well yeah you know when

I started this podcast about a year ago

I wrote down three names or so that

would be in the realm of dream guests

for me and you were at the top of that

list so if I sit to say I’m pretty happy

to have you here so let’s back up a

little bit let’s rewind the first time

that you were in Egypt that was for

writing sign in the seal right yes yes

it was I needed to go to Egypt see the

story of the sign and the seal which was

the quest for the Lost Ark of the

Covenant began for me in Ethiopia which

as I told you was a country that I was

initially traveling in as a as a

journalist as a current affairs reporter

it began for me there but with Ethiopian

claimed to possess the Ark and the

specific claim that the Ark of the

Covenant rests in the little sanctuary

chapel beside the Cathedral of Saint

Mary of Zion in Axum in Tigre province

in northern Ethiopia once I began to

investigate this thoroughly it became

necessary to go to two other countries

as well as Ethier it became necessary to

go to Israel of course since the Ark of

the Covenant you know ended up and

finally disappeared from the Temple of

Solomon in Israel and it became

necessary to go to Egypt why because the

Ark of the Covenant cannot

be separated from the figure of Moses

the Old Testament a figure of Moses and

Moses as we know was according to the

Bible at any rate was reared in the

household of the Pharaoh in Egypt that

Pharaoh was probably ramses ii and and

therefore i needed to understand the

egyptian background to moses and whether

that had had any effect on the mysteries

of the Ark of the Covenant and that’s

what first took me to Egypt and took me

to places in Egypt for example the

Temple of Karnak in Upper Egypt where

you can see processions of priests

carrying ark like objects on their

shoulders it took me to the island of

elephant tena near aswan further south

in Egypt where at one point there was a

fully fledged

Jewish temple and this is a mystery

because it was ran in parallel to the

temple of Solomon it wasn’t later than

the Temple of Solomon and and of course

it took me to the Pyramids of Giza and

and I found myself one one morning

standing in front of the Great Pyramid

of Giza this gigantic structure looming

above me 480 feet high you know 13 acre

footprint 6 million tons of incredibly

precisely engineered stone and and I

just thought wow you know what the hell

is this and and when I started to you

know my curiosity was was tickled and I

began to say well what are academics

saying about this and I felt that what

they were saying about it was just

incredibly dismissive and stupid and

didn’t do justice to the power and that

and the majesty and the difficulty of

this thing I mean creating something

like that is not easy and they were you

know they were saying this is what one

of the very first gigantic structures

ever created in Egypt so where was the

background to it where did they where

did these guys learn to do this and

that’s really what set me off on the the

track of

considering the possibility that there

might have been a lost civilization that

we might be seeing a legacy of high

wisdom and knowledge preserved in Egypt

and manifested in the pyramids so I mean

this is by no means an easy topic to

tackle the origins of civilization and

perhaps this this myth but your your

theories start with this flood myth and

it’s highly centric around your work and

you’ve researched many aspects of these

historic floods they’re masking effects

of hiding these civilizations what was

the result of that research and locating

these underwater or civilizations well

okay I mean if if you beginning to

consider the possibility of a lost

civilization before history began you

have to consider the agency by which

that civilization became lost and that

inevitably puts you in evitable puts you

in cataclysmic territory you you you

don’t a civilization doesn’t simply

disappear something has to happen to it

and and I began to look at at the

there’s a lot of information anyway even

in ancient Egypt for example which

points back to a remote period thousands

of years earlier and that’s how I found

myself looking at the Ice Age which set

in 125,000 years ago and reached its

maximum extent about 21,000 years ago

it’s difficult for people to dated to

conceive of how different the world was

you had ice caps that were two miles

deep covering almost the whole of the

northern half of North America

stretching as far south as New York

State and and covering most of northern

Europe mountain high ice caps in areas

that are densely populated and

productive today they’re they were

completely uninhabited at the time they

were ice deserts and there was two miles

of ice sitting on top of the land sea

level as a result was massively lower

sea level was four

hundred feet lower and it is today why

because all the water in those ice caps

had evaporated up out of the oceans

fallen and rain and as as rain and

frozen as as ice the global climate was

very different than from the climate we

have today so so the world looked very

different and huge areas that are now

under water because when all that ice

melted the water went back into the

oceans and sea levels rose by 400 feet

huge areas that are now under water were

above water then and would furthermore

the coastal areas have been the most

desirable lands on earth and it seemed

to me absurd that archeology was forming

a picture of the human past without

really taking account of the ten million

square miles of land about the size of

Europe and China added together that

were flooded at the end of the Ice Age

it did and furthermore the meltdown of

the Ice Age was cataclysmic there was a

slow process between about twenty one

thousand and twelve thousand years ago

twelve thousand eight hundred twelve

thousand nine hundred years ago and then

we have a we have a series of

cataclysmic events that occur and

there’s a particular window between

twelve thousand eight hundred and eleven

thousand six hundred years ago when the

earth just goes into a kind of paroxysm

of extinction level event really and

this was not being taken into account by

historians at all they all felt that

this was prior to the story of human

civilization that all human

civilizations had begun to emerge after

that and and I was contemplating the

possibility that as all the legends and

myths of the world suggest that there

was an episode of high civilization

before that and that therefore it it had

been wiped from human memory during

those cataclysms around 12,000 years ago

so this ultimately took me on seven

years of scuba diving expeditions

looking at structures an underwater down

to a hundred and twenty feet underwater

we need to go deeper but a hundred and

twenty feet is about as far as you can

go with normal scuba gear otherwise

you’d have to get into technical diving

I never did that I became pretty good

scuba diving but I never went below 120

feet in in depth with mixed gases and

technical diving equipment and so on but

but again it was it was a matter of

putting myself into the subject taking

taking the risks and going to see

whether there was indeed anything

mysterious underwater and you can be

absolutely sure there is there is a

great deal of mysterious structures

under water and often local fishing

communities and local divers know about

them so I had local people in India in

Japan in the Bahamas in the

Mediterranean in the Pacific who helped

me find the structures that I was

looking for what did you what did you

find out there um well off the northwest

coast of India there’s two huge cities

underwater in the Gulf of Cambay at a

depth of 40 meters at more than 120 feet

southeast coast of india Mahabalipuram

and kandahar again down 100 to 110 feet

underwater enormous man-made structures

Japan Yonaguni a whole area of

structures cut from solid rock which

will last above water more than 12,000

years ago further north in Japan off

Okinawa giant stone circles 110 feet

under water off of karamja particularly

an island called akka Jima in the mid

Pacific in Micronesia you have a

mysterious structure above water called

nan Madol but if you go underwater there

you find that it continues down and it

just goes all the way down to the bottom

of the bay and then there are huge

columns some standing some fall and none

of this has been taken account of by

archeology we found structures in Malta

Malta is famous for its megalithic

monuments there are huge megalithic

temples and I think those temples which

archaeology likes to date to five or six

thousand years ago are in fact much

older because we found

are there such structures underwater in

areas that were last above water more

than 12,000 years ago

there’s a famous phenomenon in Malta

called the cart ruts of course they’re

not cart ruts but there are parallel we

like grooves cut into the rock of the

island of Malta and these sometimes just

stop at the edge of cliffs but if you

then go underwater there you find that

they continue on the other side they

continue underwater and again they go

down to the maximum depth that we were

able to dive as scuba divers and

probably a good deal beyond that so it’s

really all over the world this is this

phenomenon and eventually I wrote a book

about it called underworld flooded

kingdoms of the Ice Age that was

published in 2002 you’ve talked about a

numeric code that coincides with the

longitudinal axis and the number of lost

civilizations around the world and this

code seems to be scattered through

religious myth and lore where does this

code come from and was it pointing to

well there there is a phenomenon as an

astronomical phenomenon actually called

the precession of the equinoxes there’s

something else that my research has

forced me to do because the ancients did

it is to come to terms with astronomy

and to begin to understand the apparent

motions of the of the heavens what the

theory is this may not be the causative

agent but the theory is that there is a

wobble on the axis of the earth it’s

rather like if you set a top spinning

and leave it to spin for a while the

spin will begin to decay and the top

begins to wobble can you envisage that

and that the the top part of the top

begins to transcriber

a circle in its own right it seems that

the earth does this and the theory is

that it’s caused by the opposite

gravitational pulls of the Sun and the

moon on the earth there may be a whole

other explanation for it but in a sense

that doesn’t matter what matters is the

observation and the observation because

the earth is the viewing platform from

which we observe the Stars

changes in the orientation of the

viewing platform will result in changes

in the rising and setting times of stars

at particular times of year and indeed

in the orientations of the stars in the

sky it’s not the stars that are moving

it’s the earth that’s moving but it

gives the illusion of the stars moving

of course all the stars are moving as

well they have their own proper motion

but they’re so distant from us that

those movements are really unfold over

periods of hundreds of thousands or

millions of years precession the the

wobble on the Earth’s axis creates

changes in the star field in the

observed star field in in a much shorter

time but in every 72 years you complete

a one degree shift and when you multiply

this by three the 360 degrees in a full

circle you get twenty five thousand nine

hundred and twenty years this is the

that what is what the ancients called

the great year the the period in which

the star patterns revert to their

starting point so you’ve got a grand

cycle of change in the heavens that

operates at a very specific rate which

is one degree every 72 years now that’s

quite hard to observe one degree is

about the width of your finger held up

to the horizon so you know you really

need many human lifetimes and accurate

records to be kept to really notice this

and to realize that some kind of process

is going on and then to go further from

that and to be able to predict how the

star field will look thousands of years

in the future or how it looked as of

years in the past

you need a lot more observation you need

science actually and and this is the

puzzle because the numbers related to

the pre-sesh what’s called the

precession of the equinoxes based on the

number 72 a whole sequence of numbers

for example 72 plus 36 is a hundred and

eight half of 108 is 54 72 times 30

gives you two thousand one hundred and

sixty it takes two thousand one hundred

and sixty for the Sun on the equinoxes

to pass through

one complete sign of the zodiac the 12

constellations of the zodiac I in a belt

around the path of the Sun and and all

these numbers based on the heart the

heartbeat of the system is the number 72

all these numbers crop up in very

ancient myths from all around the world

and the myths themselves frequently

described in symbolic terms a process

that is unmistakably precession this

this phenomenon that we call precession

and a really fantastic study was done of

this by two really top-grade scholars

Georgia Toussaint Indiana who was the

professor of the history of science at

the Massachusetts Institute of

Technology through into the 1960s and

hearth of on desh and who was a

professor of the history of science at

Frankfurt University the book is called

Hamlet’s mill and it finally came to the

conclusion that what they described as

some almost unbelievable ancestor

civilization thousands and thousands of

years in the past had scientifically

observed and recorded the precession had

felt that it was important for some

reason and had devised stories that

would be passed down by word of mouth

from generation to generation which

incorporated accurate scientific

knowledge of this phenomenon and and

they made the point that it really

didn’t matter whether the storyteller

knew what he or she was passing on so

long as they told the story true and

repeated the sequence of numbers that

was within the story then the

information would be passed on until

such a time as another civilization

could arise which would be able to

decode this information and that’s why

it’s interesting that the same sequence

of numbers that we find in ancient myths

appears in ancient monuments for example

2160 years is the time it takes for the

equinoxes sun to precess through one

house of the zodiac two houses of the

zodiac is four thousand three hundred

and twenty years multiply four thousand

three hundred and twenty by 10 and you

get forty three thousand

200 so we have to ask ourselves whether

it’s a coincidence or whether there’s

something extraordinary going on that

the Great Pyramid is a scale model of a

hemisphere of the earth on the scale of

one to 43,200 in other words if you take

the height of the Great Pyramid and

multiply it by forty three thousand two

hundred you get the polar radius of the

earth you get a printout an exact

precise scientific printout of a key

dimension of our planet which was not

supposed to even be known until

relatively recent times and if you

measure the base perimeter of the Great

Pyramid and multiply it by the same

number forty-three thousand two hundred

which is one of those numbers found in

ancient myth all around the world you

get the equatorial circumference of the

earth it appears that the Great Pyramid

one of the things it is is a scale model

of a northern hemisphere of the earth on

a scale of one to forty two thousand two

hundred and therefore if that’s so and I

believe it is then it’s telling us

absolutely that we are looking at the

work of a high civilization so so the

I’m glad you brought it back to the

pyramids because the Robert Bauval

discovery was incredibly important in

Egypt the Giza pyramids line up with

Ryan and they line up with a Ryan

although that does happen it’s a very

Roberto Val’s discovery the Orion

correlation theory is is I believe one

of the most important discoveries in the

study of ancient Egypt that has ever

been made it’s it’s it’s almost as

valuable as the Rosetta Stone and the

deciphering of the ancient Egyptian

hieroglyphs because suddenly we can

begin to understand what is going on

first of all it’s important to know that

the constellation of Orion mattered to

the ancient Egyptians this was not just

any random constellation when the

ancient Egyptians looked at the

constellation of Orion which they called

Saru they envisaged it as the celestial

figure of their deity Osiris and there’s

a whole

raft of Mythology about Osiris who is a

bringer of civilization to Egypt in a

remote period that they call Zep tepi

the first time thousands of years in the

in the past and and Osiris the whole

mythology of Osiris becomes linked to

the to the story of the ancient Egyptian

pharaohs so that each pharaoh on his

death became identified with Osiris

Orion with the constellation of Orion in

the sky and and therefore if if we’re

saying as Robert does that the Egyptian

pyramids have an intimate connection

with the constellation of Orion this

actually makes perfect sense because the

constellation of Orion was the single

most important constellation in the

ancient Egyptian sky secondly the

relationship is complicated there are

four narrow shafts that cut up through

the body of the Great Pyramid to from

the King’s Chamber and to from the

Queen’s Chamber and the two one from the

King’s Chamber the southern shaft from

the King’s Chamber targets the lowest of

the three stars of the belt of Orion and

the southern shaft of the Queen’s

Chamber targets the star Sirius which

the ancient Egyptians associated with

the goddess Isis the consort of Osiris

but the interesting thing is that that

targeting of those stars once we can we

can look at ancient skies now with

modern computer programs we can see

exactly how they looked exactly the

height and declension of each of the

stars in the sky at any period in the

past we wish and that alignment of the

shafts of the Great Pyramid with Sirius

and with the stars of Orion’s belt is

very firmly set in the epoch of around

2500 BC which is exactly the e-book that

Egyptologists say the pyramids were

built so it’s intriguing but that in

itself does not rewrite history but

there’s a second observation that Robert

made and that Robert and I went on to

refine together in a book called the

of the Sphinx which which is different

and this is that when you look at the

pattern of the three pyramids on the

ground and their relationship to north

and south they are actually imaging on

the ground in three dimensions the three

belt stars of the constellation of Orion

not as they looked in 2500 BC and as

they looked in 10500 BC twelve and a

half thousand years ago right back in

that cataclysmic episode when the ice

age was melting down and then the the

project that we went on to explore

together concerns the Great Sphinx of

Giza which stands very close to the

Great Pyramid the Great Sphinx is

oriented perfectly Jew East it’s in the

shape of a lion with a human head we

think that the human head was a result

of a recurving in historical times of

what had once been a layer nine head and

the Great Sphinx looks at the

constellation of Leo the Lion its own

celestial counterpart the resemblance is

uncanny again in that remote epoch of

10,500 BC at the spring equinox when the

Sun rises perfectly juist in line with

the gaze of the Sphinx so two messages

appear to being to be being sent by the

Giza Monument one monuments one speaks

of the epoch of 2500 BC which is

interesting but not controversial and

the other speaks of the epoch an epoch

much earlier 8,000 years earlier

10500 BC twelve and a half thousand

years ago and we think this is the epoch

that the ancient Egyptians called Zep

tepi the first time and and so we have a

nuanced site here there is much about

the sited Giza that can reliably and

consistently be attributed to the

Pharaohs of historical Egypt but there

are structures on that site we think the

base the base platforms of the three

pyramids over which the pyramids were

later built and completed we think the

megalithic temples at Giza the so-called

valley and mortuary temples and of

course we think the Great Sphinx and

here Robert shox work on the geology of

the Sphinx and on the weathering

patterns of the Sphinx which show that

it was exposed to thousands of years of

heavy rainfall comes into play that

these factors suggest to us that some of

the monuments on the Giza Plateau

not only commemorate a date that is 12

and a half thousand years in the past

but actually were created there and if

they were created then then a history

really has a problem because that is not

supposed at that time twelve and a half

thousand years ago our ancestors are

supposed to have been simple

hunter-gatherers without the competence

or the will or the motivation to create

gigantic megalithic architectural

structures and and when these two ideas

are brought together the the idea of the

precipitation induced weathering of the

Sphinx that was put forward by John

Anthony West initially and then by

professor Robert Schoch at Boston

University and the idea of the stellar

alignments of the as above so below

pattern that is being replicated by the

monuments on the ground which also

speaks of a remotely but when these two

ideas are brought together you begin to

you begin to sense that something about

Giza is fantastically old and deeply

deeply mysterious and this troubled

Egyptologists a lot they didn’t like it

because it was a well argued thoroughly

presented a group of theories and they

they sought to dismiss it and they said

you know how could that how could the

Sphinx possibly be twelve and a half

thousand years old

our ancestors were hunter-gatherers then

you notice the kind of circular logic

that they go into they take their

reference frame as though it’s a fact

and then use it to throw away any

contradictory evidence how could the

Sphinx possibly be twelve and a half

thousand years old there’s no other

large scale monument any anywhere in the

world that that’s that is that old and

and that’s why the much more recent

discovery of a gigantic megalithic site

in Turkey called gobekli tepe which was

deliberately buried by whichever

mysterious people made it that sealed

like a time capsule and left untouched

for more than 10,000 years that’s why

the discovery of Gobekli Tepe is so

important because the

of that site is absolutely reliable it

has been done by the German

archaeological Institute there is no

question of the intrusion of later

organic materials you can’t date stone

you can only date organic materials with

carpeting that site is definitively in

the range of 12,000 years old it’s 7,000

years older than Stonehenge and the

whole site so far only a tiny fraction

of it has been excavated the rest has

been imaged by ground-penetrating radar

the whole site is about 50 times larger

than Stonehenge it’s astonishingly

sophisticated it is 12,000 years old and

now the argument about the Sphinx has to

be taken up again

Egyptology cannot dismiss it because

there are other sites now in the world

there’s another one in Indonesia that

I’ve done a couple of research visits to

called good and Padang which again looks

like it’s 12,000 or more years old and I

think we are poised on the edge of a

paradigm shift where more and more new

evidence comes into play which cannot be

explained by the previous theory of

history and which requires a new theory

of history requires us to recognize the

possibility that there has actually been

a lost civilization that its

disappearance is connected to the

cataclysms at the end of the last ice

age that there were survivors and that

they sought to pass down their knowledge

to the future and that’s why I’ve just

spent the last three years researching

and writing a completely new book called

magicians of the gods which is the

sequel to fingerprints of the gods it’s

not a revised edition of fingerprints of

the gods it’s a completely new book 500

pages long filled with new information

from front to back because what’s

happened in the last 20 years and

fingerprints was published 20 years ago

is that just a mass of exciting new

information as emerged much of which is

not yet in the public domain and in

magicians of the gods I seek to put this

in the public domain and there is some

information on magician’s of the gods on

my website if you go to WWE my anchor

dot-com you’ll see from the opening page

and immediate link to magicians of the

gods it’s being published in Britain on

the 10th of September in America the

publication date is presently listed as

February 2016 but I’m optimistic that

the publishers will bring that forward

to November and that book is already

available for pre-order on amazon.com

and my feeling is that you know Robert

Schoch and and Robert Bauval are also

working on a book looking specifically

at the Sphinx and I think that what what

is happening is that the whole group of

us who worked in this field 20 years ago

and who were radically attacked for

considering this extraordinary

possibility that we are now reaching a

point where our the case that we may

which was ridiculed at the time is being

vindicated by my new evidence so I think

it’s a very exciting moment I think it

raises questions over everything that we

imagine human civilization to be about

when we acknowledge that either through

misinformation misdirection the history

of our species has been either hidden

from us through stupidity or you know

whatever it is it can you say that this

is some level of spiritual warfare well

I have to consider that possibility

because of my other interests which are

my interests in shamanism and an altered

states of consciousness which have have

convinced me that reality is much more

complicated than you know our five

senses might lead us to believe that we

are immersed in an invisible reality and

that reality has an impact and an

influence upon us whether we like it or

not this is the whole essence of

shamanism the notion of a spirit world

which which influences and impacts the

human race and shamans are those amongst

us who seek to be proactive about this

and to and to enter into the realm of

spirits and negotiate with spirits on

their own on their own terms and just as

there is good and evil in the material

realm in the physical world the

you know you and I live our daily lives

in the whole framework of shamanism

we’ll also tell you that there is good

and evil in the in the spiritual realm

and that that there are dark and

negative entities out there whose sole

purpose is to delude and mislead the

human race and moving away from from

shamanism if you go back to the ancient

system called Gnosticism you will find

that the same idea prevails there now

the Gnosticism was stamped out by the

Christian Church in the early centuries

of the Christian era horrendous

persecutions were unleashed upon those

who called themselves Gnostics who

believed in a revealed knowledge that

that came through visionary experience

the Gnostics absolutely made use of

psychedelic mushrooms in their

investigations of the nature of of

reality but enough of the Gnostic

material has survived thanks largely to

a library of Gnostic texts in fact

they’re referred to you can buy you can

buy the Gnostic texts on Amazon it’s

called the NAG Hammadi library edited by

James n M Robinson then the NAG Hammadi

texts at the time of the persecution of

the Gnostics

a group of Gnostics who lived in

southern Egypt near the temple of

dendara took the decision to bury an

entire library of their texts in pottery

jars in the sand and they remained

hidden there from the fourth century AD

until 1945 when they were found by

chance and they’ve since since been

translated and I would urge anybody

who’s interested in the mysteries of

existence to go and get the NAG Hammadi

library James and Robinson Edition the

full translation of the Gnostic texts

and it’s an utter revelation they turn

everything upside down I mean from the

Gnostic point of view we had been

deluded for the last 2,000 years the

entity that we have been taught to

worshippers as God Christians Muslims

Jews the the God of Abraham we all

supposedly are taught to worship the

same entity with

call him different names from the

Gnostic point of view this entity this

creature is not a God at all he’s a he’s

a demon he’s the the he’s a pretender

he’s an impostor

he’s persuaded us to believe that he is

God and to worship Him he’s got a huge

overblown ego

he’s extremely jealous he persuades

human beings constantly to harm and hurt

one another his whole purpose is to keep

us in darkness and prevent us from

realizing the divine spark within us so

you know this is a profoundly

revolutionary system of ideas and you

can understand why the Christians

particularly in the form of the Roman

Catholic Church were so vigorous in

their persecution of the Gnostics and

sought to stamp them out because once

you really start to think about Gnostic

ideas because what the Gnostics are

saying don’t look at what these guys say

you know Christianity Judaism Islam they

all talk the talk of peace and love look

at what they do look at what they

actually do look at the burnings at a

stake looking at look at the stoning to

death of of women look at the the

behavior that is encouraged look at the

division the hatred the fear a suspicion

that multipliers around the world

connected to these three religions and

you might begin to wonder whether the

Gnostics aren’t in fact right and

whether we’ve been misled by some

demonic force for the last two thousand

years that has cleverly more than two

thousand years this is the God of

Abraham we’re talking about here that

has cleverly convinced us that it is God

when in fact it’s a it’s a demon and how

more effectively could a demon operate

than that and this is not me saying this

this is the whole essence of Gnosticism

and of the revelation of Gnosticism and

it’s really worth looking into now I’m

not saying whether they’re right or

wrong I leave that up to two others to

decide each of us in our own way looking

at the story of the world but the notion

that there might be dark spiritual

forces at work there the Gnostics

envisage evil angels that

call archons witch mingle amongst men

and mislead us into all manner of crimes

and actions that are hostile to the

nature of the soul they even look like

human beings they might be some of our

politicians actually and you know it’s a

framework of analysis of the human

condition that certainly is worth

considering and taking seriously given

the state of the world that we find

ourselves in today

yeah Wow mr. Hancock truly an honor to

speak with you but I mean what do you

feel a shift in our in consciousness or

of this paradigm within a culture that

subsist with materialism television

drunkenness

what would a shift in consciousness look

like how how can we recognize that this

is occurring often when you’re in the

middle of something is difficult to see

it but I would say we’re in the middle

of a shift in consciousness right now I

think it’s happening all around the

world the old paradigm of which the

historical paradigm is a part is still

very powerful but it isn’t any longer it

doesn’t any longer have a monopoly there

is such a spread of information now the

the Internet has had an unforeseen

consequences people are able to

communicate with one another directly

without going through the the medium of

the big media you know we can be in

direct contact with one another we can

form communities of ideas in

increasingly notions that we are we are

taught to honor and revere such as

patriotism seem to become absurd but

patriotism is indeed the last refuge of

the scoundrel after all why should we

feel especially loyal to a fellow human

being just because they happen to be

born under the same bloody government or

on the same piece of land as us what’s

so special about that an accident of

birth why should we why should we pin

our loyalty on that why are we not

willing to recognize that we are all

members of the human family that we owe

that patriotic loyalty to the whole

human race

not to just a tiny segmented you know

sectored part of it this this idea is

coming with the internet because

communities of ideas are forming around

the world regardless of the color of

your skin or the religion into which you

were born or the political system into

which by accident you were born or the

land on which biased and you were born

the old paradigm says those things are

really important that new paradigm says

what’s important is the ideas we share

and our common and our shared humanity

that we are actually all brothers and

sisters and that we will not be divided

by these these malicious malign notions

that limit our humanity and that limit

the capacity of love so the old paradigm

operates on fear it seeks to make people

fearful and suspicious of one another

and it uses knee-jerk mechanisms like

patriotism or this is your religion why

should anybody actually accept a

religion just because they happen to be

born into it you know if there is a God

he gave us a brain why don’t we use it

you know why do we just this our parents

told us that something is so and we just

have to we just accept that as though

it’s so we don’t ask any questions about

it I think the new paradigm is asking a

lot of questions and people are all

around the world developing a new kind

of spirituality which is much more

individualistic but at the same time

respects and honors the spirituality of

others so I think we are in the middle

of a dramatic shift in consciousness and

I think two three hundred years from now

when historians look back on this epoch

that we are privileged to live through

they will realize that it was a moment

of incredible importance in the story of

the human race it’s not certain what the

outcome is going to be the old negative

forces are still very powerful but the

light is growing amongst humanity and we

are waking up all around the world and

we are refusing to put up with that

bullshit any longer that has been

stuffed into our ears and down our

throats for centuries the Internet’s

playing a huge role in this and

psychedelics are also playing a huge

role in it and that’s why psychedelics

are illegal and

in psychedelics are really not dangerous

they can be misused of course and I’m

not advocating that the irresponsible

use of psychedelics but but by

comparison with pharmaceutical drugs the

number of deaths caused by psychedelics

is tiny miniscule almost unmeasurable

you know whereas the the antidepressants

and and and indeed acetaminophen you

know pet painkiller kills thousands of

people every every year even in tiny

Britain 3,000 people a year are killed

by a set of mean ofin that’s not illegal

you know but but alcohol glorified by

our society widely available advertised

promoted kills thousands of people every

year not just cirrhosis of the liver but

considered the road accidents so the

arguments that you know we are being

protected from ourselves by our

governments who tell us that we may not

take psychedelics and if they do they

will send us to prison and ruin our

lives is absurd hypocritical argument

it’s it’s a crazy argument the real

reason that psychedelics are are so

demonized in Western society is because

somebody up there in the power

structures know that these ancient

natural allies of humanity lead us to

ask deep searching questions about the

kind of society we live in and that

controlling powers the dominated powers

that run our societies do not want us

asking questions about anything they

don’t want us asking questions about the

nature of reality they don’t want us

asking questions about spirituality they

don’t want us asking questions about

materialism they just want us to go on

mindlessly like robots uncomplaining

robots producing and consuming producing

and consuming feeding the machine

instead of realizing our humanity and

that’s what’s that’s what’s changing

that’s where the great hope lies in the

future and it’s up to us the choices the

choice is ours we actually don’t have to

put up with that shit any longer you

know we can make change but it takes it

takes courage and and and and it takes a

sharing of information love it man love

it we are we’re running out of time here

miss Hancock I have one more question

for you

if and you answered a bunch of my

questions was scrolling through health

and would love it if you could go back

20 years and tell your younger self one

thing what would it be

um don’t be afraid you know don’t be

don’t be afraid don’t let don’t let fear

govern your decisions that would be that

would be one important thing and another

important thing is to remember that love

is the opposite of fear and but that’s

that is what we are really here to do

we’re here to to give and to share love

and and that means considering the needs

of other people and and considering them

carefully not being totally out for

oneself but but looking to be a

nurturing and positive influence on

others in our immediate circle I I think

these are the most important messages

send away fear and manifest love and the

world will become a better place mr.

Hancock sir thank you so much for being

here where can people find your work

your book pre-order it where can they

get that Amazon well yeah I mean it’s

it’s it’s up for the new book is that

for pre-order on amazon.com and Amazon

UK but the access the quickest access to

that is through my website which is

Graham Hancock dot-com and then I’m also

so go to that and you’ll see immediately

a link to the some information about the

new book magicians of the Gods but I’m

also quite active on on Facebook I find

I find Facebook a very important and

effective means to communicate with

like-minded individuals I have two

Facebook pages I have a personal page

which has got 5,000 friends and about

30,000 followers but my author page is

really the most effective and there

that’s got I don’t know two hundred and

twenty-two thousand followers that’s how

likes that’s how to recognize it’s great

I can’t remember how it is but actually

there’s a link to it on the front page

of my website and I actually post the

same information on both my Facebook

pages and I communicate quite actively

on those pages and I’ve found it a very

very

an effective way to share ideas we will

make sure that people get to your book

and your Facebook page sir any any final

comments here any last bit of

information we got a few minutes well I

think I just think the most important

thing is to you know is to keep an open

mind it’s a very mysterious matter to be

alive at all

you know we’re we’re taught to just like

take it for granted like but again this

is when I speak of materialism I’m not

only speaking of the economic side that

it teaches us to produce and consume and

seeks to persuade us that that’s all

there is to life there’s a much deeper

aspect of materialism and this is the

notion that there is nothing more to

reality than the material realm you know

if you can’t weigh it measure it and

touch it then it doesn’t exist this is

this is the idea of many you know really

intelligent scientists are absolutely

committed to the notion of materialism

such scientists for example Richard

Dawkins the author of the book called

The God Delusion and also the book

called The Selfish Gene

Dawkins will tell you straight face that

there is no such thing as life after

death and many people are inclined to

believe him they think Oh God well he’s

a highly qualified scientist so he must

know that about these things he must be

right but actually what does he know you

know has he died and and conducted

experiments and then come back no he

hasn’t this is not a fact this is not a

scientific fact that there’s no life

after death this is a this is a

reference frame it’s a it’s it’s

actually a religious belief because it’s

not based on any evidence whatsoever and

and you know many scientists will tell

you there’s no such thing as spirit the

horrible idea of materialist science is

that consciousness is what they call an

epiphenomenon of brain activity that

consciousness is a kind of accident and

we have these big brains they’ve evolved

to enable us to survive in the jungle of

human competition and as an accidental

byproduct of that we’ve got this thing

called consciousness and again it’s

important to be clear that is not a fact

consciousness is the greatest mystery of

science we don’t know we know that

there’s a connection

between consciousness and the brain but

the exact nature of the connection

between consciousness and the brain is

not at all clear and it may be that the

ancients were right that consciousness

is fundamental to the universe and that

it is essentially non-physical in

character but that in our realm at our

level of existence consciousness

manifests in physical entities so so the

the in a sense the relationship of the

consciousness to the brain is more like

the relationship of the you know the TV

signal to the TV set but the you can

destroy the TV set but the TV signal is

still is still there this I think this

notion that consciousness is primary and

that the realm of matter comes second

that we are spirits we are souls having

a human experience which is a very

ancient idea I think that idea is going

to turn out to be correct and the modern

scientific idea that matter is

everything and that consciousness is

just an accidental byproduct of matter

will turn out to be very foolish and

wrong and again I think people all

around the world are waking up to this

as well it’s a incredible gift to be

born in a human body to have the

experiences that we can have as human

beings and I think that this world I

described it so often as a theater of

experience it’s a place where we come to

learn and to grow and to develop and and

anything that doesn’t serve that process

and the whole structure of Western

society right now does not serve that

process is Majerus and wrong we we need

to understand that we’ve been given an

incredible opportunity to live in a

human body and to make the choices the

fine choices between right and wrong

between good and evil that all of us

have to make every day sometimes at very

small levels sometimes at very high

levels and that we’re here to learn from

making those choices and that we are the

product of our choices let’s not allow

ourselves to be deluded into the belief

that we are just an accidental

combination of molecules and that’s all

there is to us yes our bodies are a

combination of molecules but the

consciousness that’s embedded in those

bodies is

greatest mystery of science and it’s

never been explained mr. Hancock it’s

truly a pleasure to know you sir thank

you so much for being here this is the

human experience thank you guys for

listening we will be back next week