Transcript for Graham Hancock – America Before

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you are listening to the human

experience podcast

my name is Xavier katana we’ve got such

an amazing show for you guys today

a lot of preparation behind this show my

guest today is mr. Graham Hancock he is

the investigative author of a number of

best-selling books that look at a range

of topics from the Ark of the Covenant

to the very origins of civilization

Graham it’s a pleasure pleasure to

welcome welcome you back to hxp my

friend thank you so much for being here

nice to be with you say be a nice to be

back so so Graham I mean you’ve got this

new book here we’re definitely to get

into that but first before we do that I

want to talk about some of the the

health issues that you’ve been going

through you were in the hospital for a

little bit right yeah well okay so the

new the whilst researching the new book

which is called America before I was

traveling all over North America and

with my wife Santa who’s a photographer

and and she and I had a particularly

arduous trip in the southwest in Arizona

and New Mexico in May 2017 getting baked

every day in the Sun out looking at

those extraordinary ancient sites in the

southwest and one night it during during

May in New Mexico I kind of felt unwell

when I went to bed late at night and

then I what I remember is waking up

during the night thinking I was going to

throw up

going to the bathroom and then that’s

the last thing I remember and then the

next information comes from my wife

Santa who finds me writhing on the floor

out she notices I’m missing from the bed

she finds me right writhing on the floor

between the bathroom and the hallway

unconscious blood pouring from my mouth

quite a dramatic scene she turns my head

on the side so I don’t choke on my own

blood and then calls the cause the calls

at nine nine one one the ambulance

service and and the paramedics

and I’m rushed to rush to hospital about

20 miles away from where we were staying

and I don’t remember any of this about

about 24 hours later I come back to I

come back to consciousness and nobody

really understands what’s happened to me

initially the diagnosis actually that I

was given was was wrong but

understandable they discovered that I

have a condition called atrial

fibrillation which is an irregular beat

of the heart that can cause strokes and

the initial conclusion was that I’d had

some sort of mini stroke this was not

the case in fact what I’d had was an

epileptic seizure and this became much

clearer at two months or three months

later in England in August 2017 when

again the same precursors feeling

slightly nausea s– occurred and then

suddenly I I had a root rouille massive

series of seizures which were completely

unstoppable it took to ambulance crews

to get me into the ambulance again I

don’t remember apparently I was roaring

and shouting the ambulance was bouncing

from side to side with me inside it I

was writhing and in a state of constant

convulsion they take me to the hospital

the convulsions get worse they try all

kinds of interventions they can’t reduce

the convulsions Santa’s taken aside by

the medics and told look this is really

bad news we think you’re going to lose

your husband he’s almost certainly going

to die if he lives he’s going to be

severely brain-damaged compulsions go on

finally they put me into a an induced

coma they they put a ventilator down my

throat again I remember nothing of this

they put a ventilator down my throat put

me into a deep induced coma total

blackness just no no memory of it just

darkness and 48 hours later they bring

me out of the coma and I don’t know

where the hell I am and I wake up in

hospital I still got the ventilator down

my throat I think what the is this

you know I don’t understand I feel like

I’ve been violated I look around I see I

see my children my children who who

traveled all the way from America you

know my son Sean who lives in Los

Angeles my daughter Shanti who was then

in New York there by my bedside I can’t

understand why my other kids are there

the ones who live in the UK are there as

well it’s it’s is this a complete

mystery to me what’s what’s going on and

then gradually the fog begins to clear

they take the ventilator out I’m

breathing for myself and and the whole

story is told to me that I’ve had this

this massive set of epileptic seizures

grand mal seizures and but it was a

closed thing well that’s a lesson for me

you know I brings home to me how how

flimsy the veil is between life and

death how we’re all living on borrowed

time whether we like it or not

and and at any moment we can we can we

can leave this beautiful garden of a

planet and find ourselves well who knows

where that’s one of the mysteries I

addressed in the new book is the mystery

of life after death

but it also it also said to me value

this life loved every minute of it

appreciate every moment of it learn

everything you can try to contribute in

whatever way you can to making things

better rather but rather than worse it

was it was a profound it was a profound

lesson for me and and I’m still at risk

of seizures I did have a minor seizure

this year knocked me out only for a few

minutes and that was that was my own

stupid fault because I’d stopped I’d

reduced my dose of anticonvulsant

medication on just on a whim I felt I

was taking too much of it and I reduced

the dose and within three days I had

another seizure so needless to say I’m

back on the meds now and keeping myself

as fit as I can trying to avoid stress

where possible although it’s very

difficult to avoid stress on an

extremely long eight-week book tour

across the United States which I’m in

the middle of at the moment yes so no I

mean there’s only there’s only one

Graham Hancock on the planet we we can’t

lose you I mean you’ve pioneered a lot

of this work that it’s true but I mean

you’ve done so much we all have we all

have our part to play in our role our

role to play on this planet and yeah III

you know I’ve got my thing and I do my

thing but I don’t think it makes me

special it’s just the same

everybody else humble I like that I mean

and we were talking about this a little

bit in the pre-show I mean you’ve your

perspective has changed in in my regards

of my experience of you you’re you’ve

always been a fierce person you’ve

always been highly intense charged and

kind of like a Raging Bull

okay you know like you just sort of

attack things and now something I’ve

noticed in you is there’s a little bit

more of a patient or give just it’s an

understanding it seems of the human

condition you know the human body thank

you for that maybe it’s just getting

older you know and having haven’t gone

through having gone through these

experiences yes you’re right I have been

I have been very intense all through my

writing career but particularly since

the late 1980s early 1990s when I got

into this whole mystery of a lost

civilization struck me as an intriguing

fascinating mystery from our from our

past and and I was I was initially

surprised at the amount of vitriol and

hatred that my idea stirred up amongst

archaeologists and amongst their friends

in the media and generally amongst

mainstream Orthodox thinkers in general

I was treated from the outset like an

enemy I was treated like a pariah I was

I was attacked

I was vilified ideas were attributed to

me that I never held and then those

ideas were attacked as though I did hold

them and I guess it made me very

defensive and I began to feel I began to

feel that I’m in some kind of I’m in

some kind of battle here this is not

just this is not just an exchange of

ideas this is not this is not simply me

trying to contribute what I think might

be useful to a to an intelligent and

constructive debate this is actually an

ideological war where I’m up against

where I’m up against people who wish to

misrepresent me in any in any possible

way in order to diminish the impact of

the ideas that I’m that I’m putting

forward so I I really took my cue from

that I felt attacked and and I guess I

went into attack mode myself maybe

philosophically that was a mistake I was

a younger man there

but that’s that’s how III took it if

people if people are gonna fight me I’m

gonna fight them back that was the kind

of attitude that I took and I guess I

did become you know a bit of a bit of a

fighter in this field and I’m sure I’ve

said some harsh words and you know maybe

I should reflect on on all of that just

because you know some asshole in some

University says harsh words about me it

doesn’t mean I have to say harsh words

back though perhaps these are the

lessons that I’m learning yeah I mean it

Graham so it’s a perfect segue into your

work and the the nature of the the

mystery behind some some of the history

that that is part of the human story and

why do you think why do you think that

your work has been vilified why why do

you think that just the the sort of

exploration of these ideas is is such a

subject of such controversy I think I

think there’s a complicated set of

reasons for that and part of it is to do

with this the way that science and

within science as a sub-discipline of

science archaeology defined itself in

the in the 19th century there were a lot

of very sloppy ideas in around in the

19th century people bought fully into

the biblical narrative there was a lot

of superstition people believed that the

earth was only 6,000 years old and you

know like that and and science

actually did need to get rid of all that

baggage it did need to get rid of the

the superstitions and the uh thought-out

arguments and the UH Neva dense claims

and it did need to replace them with

solid evidence but in the in the process

I think that science through the baby

out with the bathwater and it became a

very very narrow focused field which was

based on weighing and measuring and

Counting and in the case of archeology

of interpreting often very thin and

limited quantities of of data however

the role of the archaeologists may seem

obscure but it is in fact extremely

important because ha what archaeologists


they’re the profession they’re the

so-called experts who we have entrusted

with the role of interpreting our own

past to us we have handed that role over

to them just like we hand over to the

surgeon the role of removing our

appendix because the surgeon is an

expert in removing appendices so also we

we hand over the role of interpreting

our past to the archaeologists because

they’re supposed to be the experts in in

our past but you know an appendix is a

little bit different from the human past

an appendix there are our appendix or

any other organ of the body does not

cause us to define ourselves in certain

ways whereas our notion of our past is

fundamental to our understanding of our

present and to our definition of who we

are and and if we’ve got the past

radically wrong then that is a that is a

very serious error which which is not

simply academic but but impacts our

whole notion of what the human adventure

is about and what we’re doing here and

what our what our story really is and I

think that this is where ideology enters

into the picture and where someone such

as myself or or colleagues like John and

the late great John Anthony West or

Robert Bauval ended up getting attacked

was because we were we were offering an

alternative view of the human past and

we were not doing so in the way that

archaeologists would have liked us to do

so archaeologists would have liked us to

do so with flimsy arguments with on

evidenced speculations fantasy and and

woowoo whereas actually what we did was

we presented solidly documented evidence

we backed up our our findings in our

research well and and this is this has

been my project from from the beginning

is to present a thorough coherently

argued alternative view of the human

past which leaves room for an

extraordinary possibility and that is

that we may be a species with amnesia

that we may have lost a whole chapter of

the human story and that in losing that

whole chapter of the human story art

geologists are implicated because of

their approach and their research

methods and they’re rather dogmatic

insistence that the past is a certain

way and cannot be any other way

really the whole archaeological

profession will without really thinking

about the matter just as an automatic

knee-jerk reaction will reject and

despise and pour scorn upon the notion

of a lost civilization of the Ice Age

because if that notion is correct then

the whole foundations of the

archeological profession and much more

importantly the whole foundations of our

understanding of our past as the human

species are wrong and archaeology bears

a heavy responsibility for that so

rather than and I think it’s perfectly

understandable but but it’s just that

it’s just the way things are people do

defend their territory rather than

saying ok well let’s look at these ideas

let’s see if there’s something to them

from the very beginning those

professional interpreters of our past

who we call archaeologists have reacted

to my work by saying even though they

often have not read a word of it have

reacted to my work by saying this is

complete rubbish this man is trying to

mislead the public he’s a fantasised

he’s a liar he’s he’s making things up

and obviously when you’re at the

receiving end of that kind of after

a while it makes you it makes you angry

especially when as is as is the case

with me as was the case with John

Anthony West as is the case with with

Robert Bauval we are honestly and

genuinely trying to give the public our

take on the past we’re not trying to

delude anybody or mislead anybody we’re

saying that there may be serious

problems with the archaeological

representation of the past this is what

we think the problems are here and here

is the documentary evidence to prove it

take this away go think about it and

maybe what you’ve been taught in school

is not something that you will just

accept at face value any longer yes yes

I feel that feel that so Graham okay so

now let’s move into America before I’ve

got this book in my hand right now I

mean it’s a dense read it’s not your

casual everyday I mean it’s it’s packed

full of information you talk about so

much you talk about this idea that

perhaps America was you know also

related to the Pyramids of Giza you

mentioned the the site and Mount

villainville Alabama where you point to

similarities between this Native

Americans site and you know something

that that Giza is pointing to what was

what was that simulator what’s the

connection this is clear about this

firstly as to the density of the book

which which I hope is also nonetheless

makes a good read because it’s my

personal story and it’s my my adventure

through the through the Americas but but

I feel it again it’s important not to be

flimsy my project is to in my most

ambitious moments I would say that my

project is ultimately perhaps not in my

lifetime but through through the ideas

that my work and the work of others have

contributed is to bring about a

rewriting of the prehistory of the human

species and since we are dealing with a

prehistory of the human species that has

pretty much been set in stone for the

last hundred and fifty years and that is

defended by a powerful group of

so-called experts named archaeologists

in order to do that it’s essential to

put forward solid thoroughly based

evidence based arguments which which can

which can weigh in on that on that

battlefield so I don’t shy away from

that it’s necessary I do and I don’t

patronize my readers either I think that

I think that my readers are intelligent

questioning people and that they’re and

that they’re capable of working through

the evidence as I as I present it and

that’s why that’s why the book is is

thoroughly documented has 1500 footnotes

and and includes interviews and many

encounters with mainstream scientists

from many different fields not just

archaeologists but also for example

geneticists and then secondly the the

the the situation in the in the Americas

is particularly dire as regards

archaeology nobody

until very recently and perhaps perhaps

I’m perhaps I’m amongst the first has

really seriously considered the

possibility that the origins of

civilization may actually be in the

Americas in the so called new world

rather than in the so called old world

it’s something that we almost take in

with our mother’s milk we’re taught this

outlook from from childhood in school

and on through university wherever we

live in the world we are taught that

civilization is an old world invention

that it began somewhere in the Fertile

Crescent typically the ancient

civilization of the Sumerians is cited

as the origins of civilization there’s

even a book called history begins at

Sumer and it’s thought that about 6,000

years ago after 4,000 or so four or five

thousand years of gradual preparation of

developing agriculture of developing

stable communities that about 6,000

years ago the first real cities emerged

in Mesopotamia between the Tigris and

the Euphrates rivers and this became the

Sumerian civilization and it was

supposedly the first civilization of

history and then civilizations spread

out across the old world but the fixed

and firm view is that there was no such

thing as a great city based civilization

in the Americas until much much much

much much later than that this this was

the fixed view and the notion that the

notion that actually the whole idea of

civilization could have originated in

the Americas has been completely

rejected by archaeology and regards it

totally as old world property and what

I’ve set out to do in America before is

to show that that is not correct and

that the Americas have been particularly

badly served by archaeology American

American archaeology is a sub-discipline

within the global discipline of

archaeology and of course archaeology

largely deals with prehistory when we’re

dealing with written documents

it’s more a matter to do with history

rather than archaeology but when we’re

dealing with interpretation of artifacts

and of and of for example megalithic

sites around the world where there are

no written documents that that tends to

be the discipline of archeology and of

course archeology is a subject that’s

studied in virtually every country in

the world but in the Americas there has

there has for a very long time been a

very rigid fixed and firm view about the

origins of civilization and American

archaeologists have simply refused

adamantly refused to consider the

possibility that civilization might have

had much more ancient origins and then

they suppose and furthermore that those

origins might not have been in the

so-called old world but might have been

in the new world and see this that we

can see underlying this a kind of dogma

admittedly now within the last within

the last seven or eight years

archaeologists American archaeologists

have begun to fess up and to and to

admit to the public even you know

prestigious institutions like the the

Smithsonian have now put this in writing

that unfortunately unintentionally

without it being deliberately so

archaeology archaeology American

archaeology has grotesquely misled the

public about the story of the peopling

of the Americas once you start talking

about civilization you must first ask

yourself when did people arrived in the

Americas that’s the fundamental question

kind of any kind of civilization until

you have people living in the Americas

and right through into the 21st century

it’s only they’ve only really begun to

admit that they got it all wrong since

about 2009 2010 right through into the

21st century it was the firmly held view

of archaeologists this view took root

round about the 1960s and it held for 50

years for half a century that there had

been no human beings in the Americas


thirteen thousand four hundred years ago

a very specific date there and that date

connects to a culture that

archaeologists call the

Clovis culture we don’t know what the

people of the Clovis culture called

themselves that’s a name that

archeologists have given to that culture

which we know almost everything we know

about them we know from their stone

tools that they left behind the reason

why they’re called the Clovis culture is

very very simple and and and worth

bearing in mind because because it

indicates the UM the unstated things

about our past we here the Clovis

culture a lot of us think oh that’s what

they call themselves no it’s not what

they call themselves

it’s what archeologists call them and

the reason that archeologists call them

the Clovis culture is that the first

major Clovis so-called type site to be

excavated was Blackwater draw in new

mexico and the archaeologists there back

in the 60s who were excavating that site

they couldn’t get beer at Blackwater

draw but 20 miles down the road at

Clovis New Mexico they could get beer

and that’s why we now call this culture

who were supposedly the first Americans

we call them the Clovis culture and

round this evolved a Dogma called Clovis

first which adamantly claimed that the

Clovis culture were the first Americans

they arrived thirteen thousand four

hundred years ago there were no human

beings in the Americas before that I

mean if you pause to think about it

that’s such a weird idea because the

because the large animal species the

megafauna that are found in in Northeast

Asia in Siberia for example our walls

were also found in in the Americas for

hundreds of thousands of years before

that obviously animal species were going

back and forward but somehow

archaeologists became convinced that

human beings weren’t doing so so it

became the and I will use that word

quite deliberately and specifically

without any apology it became a dogma of

archeology as powerful as any of the

dogmas of the Catholic Church it became

a dogma of archaeology that there were

no human beings in the Americas before

thirteen thousand four hundred years ago

and any archaeologists who dared to

question that Dogma who had the

misfortune to stump

across a site with evidence that human

beings had been present there much

earlier for example Jacque sank Mars a

Canadian archaeologist at bluefish caves

in the Yukon finding evidence of human

beings there 24,000 years ago for

example our Goodyear who’s professor of

archaeology at the University of South

Carolina excavating the topper site in

South Carolina finding evidence that

humans had been there 50,000 years ago

for example dr. Tom Desmarais who’s the

chief paleontologist at the San Diego

Natural History Museum who published a

major paper in the rigorous

peer-reviewed journal Nature on the 26th

of April 2017 concerning the excavation

of a site called the cerruti mastodon

site evidencing human presence in the

americas 130,000 years ago all of these

individuals who were proposing a notion

that was not accepted by archaeological

dogma have found themselves under

massive attack from the rest of the

archaeological profession so not only

not only was there a dogma that there

were no human beings here before

thirteen thousand four hundred years ago

but there was also a kind of Clovis

police which ideologically policed

evidence and ideas in this area and

thoroughly worked to expunge and destroy

any ideas that question the dogma and

this went on for far too long it’s a

shame to the archaeological profession

some of them are now denying that it

even happened but it happened and

prestigious institutions such as nature

such as the Smithsonian Institution have

at least had the honesty to admit this

in the last in the last ten years you

know it’s it’s often the case with with

archaeology when they get things wrong

that they kind of try to rewrite the

story later and say wow this is what we

believed all the time and some of them

are saying it now but the record is

clear and I document that record

thoroughly in America before this is a

shame to the world of archaeology that

this dogma was allowed to hold in place

for so long in the Americas and it has

held back grievously our understanding

of the human path because the result was

that no funding was available for

archaeologists who wished

to look in older deposits you know in

our key ology where the the closer

something is surface the younger it is

and the deeper down you dig the the

older it is because because these strata

are laid down in layers on the on the

Earth’s surface and for a long time it

was it was held to be ridiculous that

any archaeologist would risk would seek

research funding to dig beneath the

clovis layer because archaeology

supposedly had already established that

Clovis were the first Americans and

therefore what was the point of spending

money looking deeper well the answer is

now we have the evidence from all over

the Americas of vastly more ancient

sites not only in North America but also

in Central America and in South America

evidence of sites going back tens of

thousands of years and for so long this

evidence was missed or minimized or

shoved off to the side simply because of

that almost fanatical religious dogma

called cold Clovis first and I’ll call

it as I see it archaeology has failed

the world public when it comes to the

story of the peopling of the Americas

and it is only now waking up to the

absolute magnitude and depth of that

failure but the implications about

failure don’t only concern the issue of

when people first came to the Americas

and now the evidence is very strong that

that was at least 130 thousand years ago

which is twice as long as human beings

were present in Europe for example and

twice as long as they seem to have been

present in Australia we have a human

presence in the Americas twice as long

as that ten times as old as Clovis what

was happening during those hundred and

thirty thousand years where adamantly

for so long archaeologists simply

refused to look and it’s my case that

we’ve missed a really important part of

the human story in the Americas as a

result of that archaeological dogma but

also there’s more to it than that the

Americas did suffer a gigantic Cataclysm

between twelve thousand eight hundred

and eleven thousand six hundred years

ago and that Cataclysm too played a part

in sweeping the record clean

Wow it’s it’s a lot it’s a lot of

information to take in grandma now you

know I appreciate your thoroughness

I appreciate your your Ament the immense

amount of research and collection of

information that you’ve connected the

dots for us you know so I want I really

want to bring up this the relationship

between the Giza site in Egypt and the

The Book of the Dead the Duat and the C

I’m recalling now but it all it all it

all ties together in a certain way yes

as I was researching America before I

was I was very surprised to discover

that certain really fundamental and very

distinctive and idiosyncratic ideas that

are part of the ancient Egyptian

spiritual system are also found in

almost identical form amongst the

ancient cultures of the Mississippi

Valley in in North America and and as I

was as I dug deeper in this and again

the full reasoning behind this and the

evidence behind this is given in the

book as I as I dug deeper into this it

became clear to me that this was not


nor was it evidence of some kind of

ancient Egyptian missionary expedition

to North America in ancient historical

times or vice versa

nor was it evidence of an ancient

American missionary expedition to the

Nile Valley in ancient historical times

this is evidence that goes back deep

into prehistory this evidence goes back

to the last ice age the reason for these

similarities and I’ll go into some of

them in a moment

reason for these similarities is that

both the cultures of the Mississippi

Valley and the culture of ancient Egypt

inherited a shared legacy from a remote

common ancestor just as to individuals

today who don’t actually know they’re

related in any way if their DNA testing

is done it can be found that 50

generations back actually they did have

a common ancestor the signal is still

there in the DNA so it is with cultural

material and and and in the cultural DNA

of the ancient Egyptians and

in the cultural DNA of the Mississippi

Valley are certain distinctive ideas and

the only way that those ideas can be

explained is that both of these widely

separated cultures received them as a

legacy from a much earlier culture that

influenced both regions and that must

have done so before 12,000 years ago in

other words during the last ice age so

we’re looking at a legacy here and that

and that legacy just to give you a few

examples which you find both in the

Mississippi Valley and in ancient Egypt

appears to be the legacy of a very

ancient religion and I believe that this

was a it’s not the only aspect of the

legacy geometry astronomy all kinds of

Sciences are part of that that as well

but this was a this was I believe the

religion of the lost civilization and it

concerned a deep investigation into the

mystery of life after death so both in

ancient Egypt and in the ancient

Mississippi Valley the the constellation

of Orion was incredibly important the

ancient the ancient Egyptians saw Orion

as the celestial excuse me as the

celestial figure of the god Osiris the

god of resurrection and rebirth and for

the ancient Egyptians the notion was

that the soul of the deceased would make

a kind of leap to the heavens would rise

up to the sky after death and would

would enter a kind of portal in the

constellation of Orion and would pass

through that portal to the Milky Way

where it would then make a journey along

the Milky Way which was in the heart of

what the ancient Egyptians called the do

earth the afterlife Kingdom and on that

journey along the Milky Way the soul

would be held to account for the life

that he or she had lived and would face

challenges and ordeals that were

appropriate to the good things or the

bad things that had been done during the

course of the life that was given to

that to that soul so I was very


when I came to Moundville in Alabama

with no prior knowledge of this to find

exactly the same set of ideas there and

anybody who cares to go to Marvel can

see all this written up in great detail

on noticeboards around the site and and

in the museum where certain artifacts

are shown again the constellation of

Orion plays a key role in the

Mississippi Valley it’s not represented

as a man in the sky it’s represented as

a hand and forearm in the sky the three

stars of Orion’s belt form the wrist of

the hand other stars form the thumb and

the fingers and there is a portal in the

palm of that hand which corresponds with

the Orion Nebula that lies in the sky

directly beneath the three stars of

Orion’s belt and again just as in

ancient Egypt there’s this concept of a

of a leap a soaring leap to the sky

passing through that portal in Orion and

then making a journey along the banks of

the Milky Way where the soul will be

held to account and faced with

challenges and ordeals generated by the


that that individual has lived on earth

and and that there are many many many

remarkable similarities between the

ancient Egyptian afterlife realm and the

Mississippi Valley afterlife realm for

example both of those afterlife realms

are filled with gigantic winged serpents

in both cases there is a feline creature

it’s called the underwater panther in

the Native American tradition it’s

called the Sphinx in in in Egypt we

still have of course a giant Sphinx on

the Giza Plateau it has a human head now

but when it was originally made more

than 12,000 years ago as I and my

colleagues have long argued it had also

the head of a lion that head was heavily

eroded over thousands of years and was

carved down into a human head wearing

the classic Nemus headdress of the

ancient egyptian pharaohs in historical

times around about 4,500 years ago

because the exist the previous lion head

had been so badly damaged by erosion

it’s very curious that on the path of

souls in the Native American tradition

the underwater pan that we have

surviving representations of the

underwater panther and it looks exactly

like the great sphinx of giza right down

to intimate details like the positions

of its paws and the way that its tail

curves curves around its curves around

its back and and there are many many

many more examples of this sort that I

go into in great detail you know one or

two of them could be a coincidence

but when you start adding them all

together I’ll give you another another

example a match concerns the the entity

called the Birdman in Native American

tradition the bird man is a hero deity

in the Mississippian religious system he

represents the triumph of life over

death and he is depicted as a man with

with a human body but with the head of a

hawk and we have an identical figure

playing an identical role in ancient

Egypt and he’s the god Horus he’s the

hero deity he represents the triumph of

life after death and he also of life

over death and he also is represented

with a figure that the body of a man and

the and the head of a hawk and I could

go on endlessly about this but that’s

why I wrote the book and those who want

the detail on this and why I must

conclude that this is the result of a

legacy that’s more than 12,000 years old

rather than any kind of missionary

expedition during historical periods the

evidence for that is is set out in

detail in America before yes yes yes

it’s in the book we’re in but grandma I

really want to ask you you know these

are these are cultures that are

separated by both geography and time but

yet the end you mentioned it just now

there are these coincidences that come

up over and over and over and it seems

like there is some sort of message that

we’re being indicated towards or led to

and perhaps even you know based on

corporate interest or something else you

know based on maybe the conditions of

the system here the earth life system

but this information is kept from us so

that there almost seems to be two groups

of people people who are in the know

people who know about this and people

who don’t

about this so you know how how can all

these different cultures be pointing at

the same thing at different points in

time separated by thousands of years and

that’s precisely why I argue that it’s a

legacy rather than the result of direct

contact I mean there couldn’t possibly

have been direct contact between

Moundville in Alabama which is a

thousand years old and the ancient

Egyptian civilization which vanished

from history at the end of the Roman

period about 600 years before Marvel was

even created if we if we find as we do

and again it’s thoroughly documented in

the book if we find these astonishing

range of similarities that cannot be a

coincidence then we have to explain it

and we can’t explain it by direct

contact we the only way to explain it is

that both of these cultures inherited a

legacy which was passed down culturally

over hundreds and thousands of

generations which manifested in Egypt in

a certain way which manifested in North

America in a certain way there are many

differences between these cultures and

those differences makes sense when you

realize that these cultures have been

evolving separately for tens of

thousands of years but there are many

many striking similarities as well and

those are what I call the cultural DNA

that these cultures share that they

inherited from a remote common ancestor

that was carefully preserved and passed

down and then was brought into play in

symbolism in architecture in in great

earthworks or or all over the world was

was manifested it was always waiting

there to be manifested and at different

times in different places

it was manifested when you get to grips

with it when you get right down to the

details you find that the shared

cultural DNA is there that the same

fundamental ideas the same fundamental

mysteries are being are being explored

in the same way using the same

iconography and this simply cannot be a

coincidence the best explanation is that

what we’re looking at is a global legacy

it wasn’t only passed down in the mists

bevarly and in ancient Egypt it was

passed down in many many other parts of

the world as well it was passed down in

South America and I go into that in

detail there it’s it’s integrated with

the consumption of the mysterious

visionary brew called ayahuasca and it’s

not accidental that ayahuasca means the

vine of the Dead or the vine of souls it

was passed down in Mesopotamia

Mesopotamia was not the origin ancient

Sumer was not the originator of

civilization it also was a recipient of

this legacy from a civilization that was

destroyed at the at the end of the last

ice age but nonetheless a civilization

from which there were survivors in that

Cataclysm that unfolded on the earth

between twelve thousand eight hundred

and eleven thousand six hundred years

ago geologists call that Cataclysm the

Younger Dryas there were survivors yes

their civilization was destroyed but

there were survivors and they made it

their business to wonder the world and

to seek to restart civilization and to

implant their fundamental ideas amongst

the then hunter-gatherer cultures with

whom they settled and took refuge and

this legacy once being passed on then

came to fruition at different times in

different places the the manifestation

of the legacy did not always occur at

the same time everywhere around the

world although I have to say there is a

striking manifestation that does occur

between five and six thousand years ago

we see it in Sumer we see it in ancient

Egypt and we see it in South America for

example with the civilization of corral

that great complex of pyramids that lies

about 60 miles to the north of Lima in

in Peru which also dates to around five

thousand years ago so it seems that

there was some there was some guiding

force behind the scenes in history that

shows certain moments to manifest this

legacy and in quite a number of parts of

the world that legacy manifests between

6,000 and 5,000 years ago but in other

parts of the world it takes longer to

manifest I believe it manifested in

North America earlier earlier as well

you can trace back the origins of the

so-called mound builder cultures way

beyond Moundville in Alabama you can

trace them back at Poverty Point in

Louisiana to 2500 years ago you can

trace them back to watson break in

Louisiana to 5,500 years ago and other

other sites in the lower Mississippi

Valley going back eight 9,000 years all

sharing the same geometry and the same

system of ideas and if only North

America had not been so intent on

destroying the Native American legacy

which unfortunately is the case the

Native American legacy of great sites

and earthworks and structures in North

America was subjected to terrible

destruction in the 19th century and

through into the 20th century so just

while archeologists were seeking to

destroy the cultural ideas by giving

only minimal importance to Native

American cultures in the 19th and early

20th centuries I’m not saying that’s

what archaeology are doing now they’re

much more enlightened now and they

recognized the value of ancient American

civilizations but in the 19th and 20th

20th centuries the whole project was to

justify the anglo-saxon conquest of

North America and the land grab that

that was part of it they’re taking away

of the lands from the indigenous

inhabitants also included destroying all

traces that those indigenous inhabitants

were in fact highly civilized and that’s

why 90% of the mound builder and

earthworks sites that have that were

documented in the 19th century are now

completely gone

they’ve been plowed under for

agricultural land they’ve been replaced

with housing estates or with industrial

parks the site’s themselves many of them

documented in the 19th century are now

just completely gone there’s nothing

there for archaeologists to work with at

all you know and no wonder we’re a

species with amnesia if we’re so willing

to wipe out our past and no matter how

much we regret it now the fact is in

North America that so much of that past

was deliberately swept away and

destroyed and we’re left with really a

tiny remnant to work with today

yeah it’s so profound your words Graham

I really find the potent potency of them

so accurate and you mentioned something

that I really wanted to touch on because

I find I osku you I find that you know

your work dovetails this it’s it’s as if

you you know you explore these two

things in your work ayahuasca and these

ancient civilizations but in in America

before you use you could start to

connect these dots for for this ancient

brew or this brew medicine of the soul

and these ancient civilizations what

what is the connection there between

this this vine and and this leaf being

combined together and these ancient

civilizations can you connect that for

us there’s a lot of points to make here

the first is the first the first is a

point concerning the character of the

lost civilization that I’ve made it my

my project to to attempt to bring back

to public attention over the last

quarter of a century or so and I believe

that that civilization had a very

different character from our own that it

was less focused on material things more

focused on on what our real purpose is

on this planet I can’t prove that this

is the case but I I think our real

purpose on this planet is to grow and

develop and nurture the soul so that we

pass through the experience of life this

an incarnation in a human body and we

learn and grow and develop from it and

are able to move on to another level

perhaps after many different lifetimes

that’s my personal belief system but it

also appears to have been the belief

system of a civilization of remote

antiquity and a belief system that was

as I said passed down as a legacy in in

many different parts of the world and

one of the things that was different

about this civilization from our own was

that is that it made use of visionary

experiences our civilization rejects

visionary experiences we despise and I

mean you know if you want to insult

somebody mildly you might call that

person a dreamer well frankly speaking

in the ancient world

to be a dreamer was a really good thing

because because dreaming was regarded as

one of the valid gateways to true

knowledge if we understood and explored

our dreams carefully we would learn very

important truths in the modern world

that’s completely despised and dreams

are regarded as just completely

meaningless fictions of knowing of no

importance whatsoever and and also in

the modern world again there’s a new

awakening now the younger generation is

waking up and are changing things but

for most of the 20th century and well

into the 21st psychedelics were

demonized by our society and those who

chose to exercise their sovereign right

as adults to explore their own

consciousness or to or to manage their

own health through using these ancient

medicinal teacher plants that profoundly

alter our state of consciousness anybody

who sought to do that risked a jail term

risked imprisonment risked having their

lives ruined by the authorities the lost

civilization I’m in visiting will had a

completely different focus it regarded

these experiences in altered states of

consciousness as absolutely fundamental

to the human project and that if we cut

ourselves off from these experiences and

deny these experiences to ourselves

we’re going to lose track of a very

important part of what of what we are

and we’re also going to fail to benefit

from the insights and the creative

understandings that come in altered

states of consciousness yes the state of

consciousness our society values which I

call the alert problem-solving state of

consciousness does have a role it’s an

important state of consciousness I’ve

said this many times before and I’ll say

it again when I get on an airplane I

would like the pilot to be in an alert

problem-solving state of consciousness

and I would like he or she to remain in

that elite problem-solving state of

consciousness until they land me safely

at the airport I’m going to after that I

don’t care what they do with their

consciousness but the alert

problem-solving state of consciousness

is appropriate to certain human

activities but the mistake is to believe

it’s the only valuable state of

consciousness whereas in fact we are


diverse creatures with enormous

potential and that potential can be

realized through exploring other states

of consciousness either through

meditation either through fasting either

through the use of the teacher plants

like like ayahuasca or the fungi like

psilocybin or the cacti like peyote or

San Pedro using these using these plants

brings us into a different state of

consciousness which is not the alert

problem-solving state of consciousness

but which is a state of consciousness in

which we may have fundamental insights

and fundamental creative discoveries

that we would not make otherwise and

which is also a state of consciousness

in which healing becomes possible

self-healing becomes possible you know I

mean I’ll give you an example it’s not

an accident that Steve Jobs and and and

what was niak who founded Apple regarded

LSD is very fundamental to their project

that Apple probably would never have

been started without LSD that’s enough

proof proof alone that that that these

altered states of consciousness can

result in extraordinarily important

creative insights and for a society to

deny itself that based on some kind of

ideological dogma which which elevates

the alert problem-solving state of

consciousness to a kind of monopoly

that’s a that’s a huge mistake and I

think the lost civilization that I’ve

been trying to bring back into public

consciousness was it was a civilization

that valued and nurtured altered states

of consciousness and understood how to

amplify and magnify those for the

benefit of the whole population so the

Great Pyramid of Giza is not the tomb of

a Pharaoh the Great Pyramid of Giza is a

consciousness amplifying engine and

anybody who has the opportunity to spend

time alone inside the Great Pyramid even

thousands of years after it’s built will

will realize that’s the case sorry I’m

going on at great length but there was

another aspect to your question and that

concerned the ayahuasca brew hmm and the

fact that it has more than one

ingredient mm-hmm this is extremely

important because it’s proof of an

ancient science in the Amazon a science

that’s extremely old

it’s a simple fact that there’s about a

hundred and fifty thousand different

species of plants and trees and vines in

the Amazon but if you want to make

ayahuasca you’re going to have to select

just two of them neither of which is

psychoactive on its own one of them is

the bush that but botanists call

psychotria viridis it’s called


in the amazon its eaves contain

dimethyltryptamine and the other

ingredient is the ayahuasca vine now

many in the West and the game there’s a

resurgence and interest in this have

experienced dimethyltryptamine DMT many

in the in the modern world have have

experienced this mysterious substance

called DMT arguably the most powerful

hallucinogen known to science and and

typically in Western industrialized

societies this is experienced through

smoking or vaping DMT and when that

happens I guess I’ve had maybe fifteen

or sixteen trips with vaped DMT when you

hit the right dose you are you are taken

out of your body

there’s no argument there’s no

discussion if you hit the right dose you

are you’re your consciousness is just

ripped out of your body and you’re taken

off to a seamlessly convincing utterly

overwhelming parallel realm where things

happen very fast although consciously

they may seem to be very slow and and

the overwhelming deluge of impressions

is so much that it’s often difficult to

remember anything that happened you know

that you had a profound experience you

have the sense that you downloaded

something of great importance but you

don’t really know what it is you come

out of it often in a state of confusion

I’m not saying everybody does but it’s

very very commonly the case so this the

vaped DMT trip is a really is in fact in

in terms of real minutes a very short

journey it’s eight to twelve minutes

that you’re in there and then you’re out

and back back into your everyday state

of consciousness and wondering actually

what the hell happened to you it’s so

rapid so overwhelming it’s very

difficult to integrate the experiences

so what you’d like is a way to make the

power of DMT last longer for it to be

more accessible and perhaps a little

more gentle with you than the vaped DMT

is and that’s what they’ve discovered in

the Amazon by making the DMT in the

leaves of the shekinah plant orally

active if you take if you made a tea out

of hundreds of Shakuni leaves and drank

all of it yes you’d be drinking a lot of

DMT but it would have no effect on you

because there’s an enzyme in the gut

mono a mean oxidase switches off DMT on

contact what you need to make it orally

active is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor

and that is found in the ayahuasca vine

so go figure how that was done by trial

and error

neither the vine nor the leaf are

psychoactive on their own but bring them

together and you get an orally active

brew that sends you on a journey that is

in some ways similar to the DMT journey

and in some ways radically different

because the the the mother vine

ayahuasca is also bringing something

incredibly important to the experience

but the most important thing is that it

unfolds over four or five hours it

unfolds more slowly more gently it’s

very organic you have you have the

opportunity to really think about what

you’re experiencing and to remember it

and to integrate it and you emerge you

emerge from the journey with profound

teachings that it then becomes your next

project is to integrate those teachings

into into your daily life well I would

call this science in the Amazon to to

put these two plants together which

don’t work on their own but only work in

combination and to create this brew

which is honestly changing the world all

over the world today the ayahuasca the

the ayahuasca experience is no longer

limited to the Amazon jungle it’s come

out of the rainforest it’s spread all

around the world you can drink ayahuasca

in Tokyo or London or New York or

Chicago or wherever you happen to be you

can drink it in Cairo

you can you can drink it in Istanbul you

know it’s it’s available everywhere

under the radar illegal but available

because there’s something in it that

calls to people that people realize

there’s an important experience

that they have been denied by their

societies which they need to have and in

this sense the teacher plant ayahuasca

the teacher brew ayahuasca which is as I

said a mixture of two plants is having

an impact all around the world at the

moment and I would say again we’re

looking at a legacy here this is

knowledge from a lost civilization of

prehistoric antiquity and it’s not by

the way the only evidence of science in

the Amazon there’s a great more mmm-hmm

yeah indeed I mean it’s anyone who

explores this Avenue of thought I think

will be very surprised at how much

information there is around this plant

and the usage of it you know how far it

goes back and how much it can change

your life but moving forward and I just

want to remind everyone we’re about an

hour deep we have about 30 minutes left

with grams so if you want to ask your

question we’re taking text questions you

can join the discord server you’ll see

that link at the bottom of your screen

and and Graham I do have some questions

here for you have one more of my own

okay so you know something that I

noticed Graham in your work and I’ve

been reading your work for more than

five years is that there seems to be you

know between your fiction and nonfiction

because you’re you write in both of

these styles and it seems if I could

just jump in okay yes I do write novels

but almost nobody reads them they are


I’ve written a series of three novels

about the Spanish conquest of Mexico

called war God and I’ve written the

first of two novels of a time slit novel

called entangled and for me this is a

it’s a fascinating writing exercise my

my main writing project is my nonfiction

work books like fingerprints of the gods

books like magicians of the gods and my

latest book America before these are all

non-fiction factual books but as a

writer I found it challenging and

interesting to also dabble in fiction on

the side because for example when I came

to tell the story of the Spanish

conquest of Mexico in my war god series

it was very important for me to get

inside the heads of those real

historical character

and I found that in writing in that way

I was able to understand more about the

historical events than if I’d approached

them solely as a nonfiction writer but I

am fundamentally a writer of factual

non-fiction books and I’m just blessed

that I’ve had the opportunity from time

to time to write some novels as well I

mean it near the end grandma of the of

America before that you tie in ESP and

the possible use of telekinesis to move

around these these large blocks and what

I noticed in your in your fiction work

is it does get you know somewhat sci-fi

in in your book so I’m just I’m

wondering you know if there’s something

you might be holding back you know from

obviously since I’ve been since I’ve

been on a kind of quest for a lost

civilization of prehistoric antiquity

for more than 25 years now I have I have

developed some ideas and some notion of

of what the what the character of that

civilization was and as I said earlier I

think it was very different from our own

I think it did enshrine the use of

psychedelics sort of the teacher plants

as a fundamental part of the character

of that civilization but I also think it

did tech it did technology in a very

different way from the way we do it and

I’ve cut I’ve received a lot of sneering

and dismissive criticism from the

mainstream for even contemplating that

there may be innate and untapped human

abilities which we in modern society are

not using but which ancient

civilizations and particularly the lost

civilization that I address myself to

had mastered fully we have gone down a

particular technological Road with

modern industrial civilization and

that’s what I call the Road of leverage

and mechanical advantage if we want to

get stuff done

we invent machines to do it on our

behalf we divest the direct manipulation

of matter to mechanical devices and

we’re very very good at that particular

kind of tech

of developing and deploying mechanical

devices and we’re we’re so confident of

their utility and so satisfied with what

they do for us that we invest all our

efforts and ingenuity and intelligence

in making ever better more sophisticated

cleverer machines and there’s there’s

nothing wrong with that but I would

suggest that in the process because we

have become we have come to rely on

machinery as the intervention between us

and the world of matter we may have

allowed other innate faculties of the

human creature to lapse or to go dormant

and I although I will be despised for

saying this and although there will be

many of a materialist frame of mind who

will simply mock me without considering

further for saying this I think that

powers such as telepathy touches such as

telekinesis which we have much anecdotal

evidence of today and which are utterly

despised and rejected by the mainstream

I think they’re part of the human legacy

too just as just as we have the ability

to turn our brains to making very clever

machines to manipulate matter so it may

also have been in the past that we were

able to manipulate matter directly

through the power of the mind and as I

say this I can just see the sneering and

rejecting comments that come up but

these are matters that we should

investigate and where you have for

example the the Institute of noetic

science is looking into issues like this

in a serious way Graham we lost you

there for a second I think you might be

covering your microphone okay you’re

back I’m just saying that rather than

reject and despise the notion that human

beings may have psychic powers may have

telepathic powers may have the ability

to manipulate matter as in telekinesis

through the power of the mind we should

we should look more seriously into that

rather than just automatically knee-jerk

rejecting it and my suggestion is that

the lost civilization I’m interested in

had amplified those kind of powers to a

high degree so that

those who were confronted by them would

almost feel they were confronted by

magic but it’s not magic it’s an innate

human faculty that unfortunately in the

modern world we have allowed to lapse

mm-hmm Oh Graham we’ve got we’ve got a

bunch of questions that I want to get to

I promised everyone listening that we

would get to these questions so this one

the first one comes from Enki he asks or

he or she asks in your research did you

come across the haplogroup X to a

subject and if you did what were your

thoughts group XTA to be honest is

something I don’t know that much about

okay fair enough

moving forward Starchild asks hello mr.


I am Starchild the comic-book hero you

met in Seattle could you talk about the

significance of the pinecone in ancient

history slash American history well the

argument is that the the pinecone

represents the pineal gland which is

regarded as the third eye in many

different cultures around the world the

third eye which gives us a sixth sense

if you were that integrates us with the

universe beyond this universe and and

it’s interesting that that very


dimethyltryptamine DMT that is

fundamental to the ayahuasca experience

is a natural brain hormone all human

beings have DMT usually in sub

psychedelic quantities in their bodies

and while it would be premature to claim

that DMT is actually made in the pineal

gland there’s evidence that it’s that

lungs also play a part in the generation

of DMT in the human body it’s certainly

found in the pineal gland and the

suggestion is that the pinecone

represents this power of insight into

realms beyond this realm hmm thank you

thanks Graham for answering that Sean

asked what are your thoughts on the work

at structure in Mauritania

rishaad structure is is a structure of

circular rings in West Africa in

Mauritania it’s a very interesting

structure there’s been a lot of good

material put out about this on the

internet in in recent months pay tribute

tour to a YouTube channel called bright

insight who I think were the first to

really draw attention to the research

structure what’s interesting about it

when you view it from from aerial

imagery is the this series of circular

concentric rings which of course are

exactly how Plato described the lost

city of Atlantis and this is why the

site has attracted so much attention I

think the site is interesting I think

the evidence that has been put forward

for it is at least justifies a thorough

excavation and investigation of that

site the very first thing we have to do

is to rule out weird geology geology is

an amazing thing you know the the

Earth’s natural features often have a

way of presenting themselves as though

they are man-made when they are not so

we need to be sure that that’s not the

case with the Rochette structure and

we’ll only be sure of that with boots on

the ground and an excavation if it is

not weird geology if it is archaeology

and we’re not there yet but if it is our

key ology then it has the potential to

rewrite human history it’s a fascinating

fascinating site and I’m certainly

keeping an eye on it and seeing what’s

developing there ok addy Craig asks hi

Graham are you familiar with the work of

Chan Thomas specifically the Adam and

Eve story yeah people keep kept drawing

this to my attention while I’ve been on

the road in America no the answer is I’m

not familiar with that I’m only one

person and I’m not familiar with

everything I I do I do the best the best

that I can to document what I know but

this Adam and Eve story seems to be a

YouTube channel and perhaps there’s a

book behind it somewhere this is what

this is what I’ve been told is something

that I intend to investigate when I get

home to England after this this long

tour around America okay interesting

someone asks mr. Hancock what kind of

experience have you had with salvia

divinorum if any I’ve had experience

with savvy salvia divinorum I’ve had a

couple of smoked journeys with with

salvia in both of them an intense sense

of disassociation of entering another

realm of sitting on a sort of pinnacle

with vast drops beneath me as though I’m

as I’m sitting on a barstool that’s 20

miles high and I’m looking down at the

earth below most of all the feeling of

disassociation and of being of

encountering a parallel realm that I

don’t fully understand

I’ve only as I say had a couple of

experiences with with salvia it’s

certainly very intriguing I would say

it’s another one of those teacher plants

that that that Nature has kindly gifted

us indeed tripped here’s an interesting

one he asks he or she or they ask what

what do you think about the modern

religions all the modern religions being

connected or interpreted as the same

flood survivors knowledge I think that’s

I think that’s a very reasonable

speculation the the way that the notion

of a global flood is most widely known

still in in the world today is through

the biblical story there which has been

preserved by the Abrahamic religions

Christianity Judaism and Islam the story

of the flood of Noah and and poorly

worked out big big big biblical

chronologies you know used to put that

event at just a few thousand years ago

but there was no global flood a few

thousand years ago but there was a

massive global flood both at the

beginning and at the end of the Younger

Dryas and this is the Cataclysm that I

go into in great depth in America before

between twelve thousand eight hundred

and eleven thousand six hundred years

ago eleven thousand six hundred years

ago you have what geologists call

meltwater pulse one B

it’s when the last of the North American

and European ice caps just collapse into

the sea and massively raise sea level

and if we’re looking for a moment in

history that can be described as the

global flood it would be then it would

be eleven thousand six hundred years ago

it would be meltwater pulse one B and

it’s not an accident that eleven

thousand six hundred years ago is

exactly the date that Plato gives us for

the destruction and submergence of the

lost civilization of Atlantis Plato is

often accused of making Atlantis up by

archaeologists they say he fabricated

fabricated the whole story for a

political motive Plato is the earliest

surviving source of the Atlantis

tradition but if you go into the

dialogues of Timaeus and Critias and the

back story you’ll find that Plato is

telling us that Atlantis was destroyed

and submerged by flood eleven thousand

six hundred years ago from our time a

date that we would call 9600 BC which

was 9,000 years before the time of the

Greek lawmaker Solon who visited Egypt

in 600 BC and first received the story

of Atlantis which was then passed down

in the family line to Plato so if Plato

made the whole thing up he was

astonishingly on the money with the

latest geological information about

massive sea level rise eleven thousand

six hundred years ago and I think that

there the more than 2,000 so-called

flood myths that we find around the

world are all memories of this

cataclysmic event that brought the last

ice age suddenly and dramatically to an

end last one from the audience guys if

if I miss your question I apologize the

remaining that came through mark-ass

grandma have you have you seen the very

unique and widely unknown pyramids ruin

ruins above tonalá Chiapas Mexico no I’m

only one person I stretched myself

pretty thin I’ve seen a lot of the world

I’ve seen some amazing and majestic and

mysterious pyramid sites all around the

world but I haven’t seen those ones they

think you know everything I mean the

earth you’re here I just know a little

and I tried to put it together and to

back it up with evidence yeah I mean

you’ve done that in a mirror

before and I mean it’s it was such a

great read to go through how to had some

help going through it I mean it it’s a

lot of material I was actually in the

jungle and looking through the book so

it was really surprising that you know

you connected these dots about this sort

of migration into North America and and

then also you know this somebody

somebody asked earlier about about

haplogroups and this is this is the

language of genetics okay

I do actually go into genetic issues in

in great detail in America before just

not to bring this up yet start into

haplogroup x2a but what is what what

particularly intrigues me about new

evidence from the science of genetics

and the study of ancient DNA is a very

curious DNA signal that is found only in

two parts of the world one part of the

world is Australasia Papua New Guinea

the Melanesian peoples of Papua New

Guinea and Australian Aborigines and the

other part of the world is right in the

heart of the Amazon jungle where you

this same DNA signal rings out very very

loudly and we know it’s been in the

Amazon jungle from the discovery of

ancient skeletal remains that have been

DNA tested we know it’s been there since

the end of the last ice age is extremely

ancient and it implies that somebody was

capable of crossing the Pacific Ocean

and bringing a reproductively viable

population from Australasia to the

Amazon jungle during the last ice age

this is really intriguing because it

completely contradicts again than the

mainstream view that our ancestors

during the Ice Age were not capable of

crossing a ocean if if they had come by

land you would find that DNA signal in

North America and in Central America as


but the fact that you only find it in

South America and in Australasia

indicates that an oceanic voyage of a

reproductively viable population was

undertaken and furthermore it indicates

that that voyage was from Australasia to

South America because the signal is much

stronger in Australasia than it isn’t

South America mm-hmm yeah I mean this is

this question is in my list and it’s

like you’re reading my mind’s amazing so

so there was a the DNA signal can you be

a little bit more precise what does the

signal mean what does it tell people

well what it tells what it tells people

again it’s this issue of a of a legacy

and in this case a very specific genetic

legacy very a very specific cluster of

DNA that is only found in Australasia

and in the Amazon jungle the the the you

should find it all the way through the

Americas if the the traditional story of

the peopling of the Americas were

correct and the traditional story of the

peopling of the Americas is that it all

came overland through a lot from Siberia

across the Bering Straits when the

Bering Straits were a land bridge

through an ice-free corridor between the

North American ice caps down into North

America thence onwards into Central

America thence onwards into South

America if that were the only story then

this same very distinctive Australasia

DNA signal would be found all over the

Americas but to find it only in South

America and only amongst certain tribes

in the Amazon jungle is indicative that

it must have resulted from an oceanic

voyage during the Ice Age and not only a

voyage but a voyage of a reproductively

viable population who were settled in

the Amazon and oddly enough the Takano

who are an ayahuasca drinking culture of

the Amazon have an origin myth which

speaks of exactly such a settlement

mission they tell of how their ancestors

in the remotest past were not originally

from the Amazon that they were brought

to the Amazon by a group of

quote-unquote superhumans who included

the daughter of the son who taught them

the use of fire and who taught them

horticulture and the a superhuman

helmsman who steered the serpent shaped

canoe with which their ancestors were

ushered into the Amazon River system and

shown which were the best places for

them to settle and to plant their fields

and to make their villages and to and to


and then those so-called superhumans

left the ancestors of the Takano there

and they’re still there to this day and

their culture that their descendants are

still there to this day and their

culture revolves around the use of

ayahuasca and they preserve this memory

of having been settled in the Amazon a

very long time ago and on the other side

of the world in in Egypt there’s a very

similar story in the Ed foo building

texts which also speak of that which

speaks specifically of the destruction

of a former civilization of its

survivors and of how they tried to

restart the civilization by wandering

the world and bringing their ideas to

many different cultures around the world

it’s fascinating that there’s this such

a huge tie-in to this Sankar T that I

mean and and also that you know so much

of this history has been erased it’s

it’s as if you know there’s there’s some

sort of I don’t know I hate to point in

the direction of some large massive

conspiracy but maybe even a cover-up of

you know what’s really truly going on

because it seems as if these ancient

civilizations that were probably as

advanced if not more advanced than we

are today they were pointing at some

macro cosmic perspective of the journey

of the soul what’s happening here in the

human experience as we sort of evolve

and grow very much so you know I mean

what is that what is the purpose of life

is there a purpose at all the many

mainstream scientists who are very much

of the materialist frame of mind and who

seek to reduce everything to matter who

even regard consciousness as

quote-unquote an epiphenomenon of brain

activity in other words that there’s a

materialist base to consciousness

individuals like that for example

Professor Richard Dawkins who’s the

author of The Selfish Gene and of and of

The God Delusion

they will seek to persuade us that there

is no meaning or purpose to human life

at all

that we are simply accidents of biology

and chemistry that it’s entirely random

and that there is no

there’s no purpose whatsoever and you

know they could be right I I can’t prove

them wrong but my strong gut instinct

and the legacy that we’ve received from

many ancient civilizations see like the

ancient Egyptians they they put their

best minds to work for thousands of

years on what happens to us when we die

our our civilization tries to avoid that

Richard Dawkins and his like will tell

you that nothing happens to us when we

die we’re just gone and that’s the end

of an heir story but the vast testimony

of the ancient world is that we are in

can’t we are souls incarnated in these

material bodies and that we’re here to

learn and to grow and to develop if

that’s the case then our mission here on

earth is not simply to accumulate

material goods not simply to increase

our wealth not simply to compete with

and and out-compete others not to define

ourselves in terms of what we own but to

define ourselves in terms of who we are

and of what we do with this life and

with this what is regarded in the eighth

by the ancients as this incredible

opportunity to have been born in a human

body there are certain experiences at

this level of vibration that can only be

had at this level of vibration where

there are direct physical consequences

and once you start taking all of this on

board and open yourself to the

possibility that our life on Earth may

be a theater of experience that our

particular purpose here is to learn and

to grow and to develop and to manifest

love rather than hatred and fear and

suspicion then you begin to realize that

the whole ethic of the modern world may

be misleading us may be taking us down a

track that isn’t helpful to us

that Professor Richard Dawkins when the

time comes

may find himself confronted by an

extraordinary mystery that he’s

completely unprepared for because his

whole life experience has persuaded him

that there’s no meaning to life may

suddenly find himself having to account

for every second of the life that he has

that he has lived if that were the case

and the testimony of the ancients is

that it

is the case then perhaps we would be

living life in a different way on this

planet we would not be defining our

worth in terms of our economic value in

terms of how much we earn or what kind

of motorcar we own or what sort of

washing machine we own the tendency of

the modern world is to persuade us to

define ourselves purely in those

material terms if there’s so much more

to life than that if we’re really here

to learn and to grow and develop

then those material things well they

have their place but fundamentally if we

focus too much upon them they’re gonna

get in the way of our journey and

they’re going to prevent us from doing

what we came here to do so that we have

to keep on coming back and doing it

again and again and again until we get

the lesson and that’s where you where

you begin to realize that ancient

teachings such as Gnosticism which which

argue that that there are entities on

this planet that the whole purpose of

which is to mislead us and to divert us

from our true course the Gnostics called

them the archons who served the Demiurge

who’s whose project is to snuff out the

divine spark in inhumanity you begin to

realize that that maybe maybe possible

and when we look around the modern world

we can see those archons at work and we

can see them at work in the advertising

industry seeking to persuade us that the

whole purpose of our lives is how much

material stuff we can accumulate and

seeking us to pursue aid us to

congratulate ourselves because we have

more material stuff than our neighbour

what a trivial waste of the glorious

experience of life on this majestic

beautiful garden of a planet what a

waste we are being seduced into wasting

the opportunities we’ve been given and

the ancients would say we are being

seduced by negative entities such as the

archons who are jealous of the divine

spark within us and wished to shut it

down and my goodness unfortunately

they’re doing a very good job but on the

other side they are shutting down the

divine spark in humanity you see it

happening all around the world the

mainstream religions are implicated in

this as well it’s not just commerce but

on the other side of the story you have

an awakening and I’m aware of this

awakening taking place particularly

amongst the younger

who I have the privilege of meeting very

often at the events and talks that I

give and awakening a refusal to put up

with the any longer a refusal

to accept voices of authority that tell

us what to think and a willingness to

think for ourselves this is growing in

the world it’s a small flame right now

and the archons the iconic forces are

seeking in every possible way to shut it

down but people are waking up they are

resisting this and at the leading edge

of this resistance and again the

mainstream would seek to present this as

trivial whereas in fact it’s incredibly

important at the leading edge of this

resistance is our relationship with

plants that alter consciousness you know

with plants and fungi that alter

consciousness proves for too long we

just bought into the mainstream

narrative that these teacher plants are

negative and unhelpful but people are

finding out for themselves that

ayahuasca psilocybin peyote a San Pedro

and other other teacher plants and fungi

are incredibly positive and very helpful

for our personal development and that’s

why I celebrate what’s happening in

America where there has been this

overarching governmental control of the

war on drugs and which young people in

state after state are rejecting and

turning over and saying we will not

accept what these Authority the false

lies that these authority figures give

to us we will not accept them any longer

and the latest development of that is

the decriminalization of psilocybin in

Denver which resulted from from a

citizen’s initiative III it’s

encouraging to me when I see citizens

taking power into their own hands and

refusing to be told what to think and

what to do with their own bodies and

with their own consciousness by some you

know governmental authority they

have no right to tell us what to think

and what to do with our own bodies and

our own consciousness and that that’s

reassertion of individual sovereignty

over consciousness is a very healthy

development we’re seeing it happening

state-by-state in America with the the

growing legalization movement for

Cannabis all of the arguments from

making cannabis illegal are based on

lies and falsehoods that were

deliberately spread to mislead the

population and I’m encouraged in America

that step-by-step state-by-state people

are taking the matter into their own

hands sticking one finger up to

government and saying what we do with

our bodies and our consciousness while

we do no harm to others is entirely our

business this is a hugely important

development in the human story and I’m

pleased that the people of America are

at the spearhead of this change even

though the government the federal

government America is still trying to

keep it suppressed hmm so it’s so

profound grandma you’re such a wonderful

guest to have on because we touch on so

much of this and it’s it’s so profound

to hear you speak because it’s it’s

poetic the way you put this I mean

there’s nothing better than a Graham

Hancock rant it’s perfect

yes and and Graham I mean we want you to

be healthy we want you to take care of

yourself so you know we’re so where are

you now you’re in Chicago and in Chicago

flying – flying to Phoenix tomorrow for

a series of events that I have in Sedona

I’m giving a big talk in Sedona

on the 16th about America before the

details are up on my website Graham

Hancock comm go to the talks and events

page and you’ll see all my events both

the ones that I’ve now completed in

North America and the ones that still

remain after Sedona we’re going to go to

a very amazing place in Utah Boulder

Utah not Boulder Colorado

but Boulder Utah where I’m going to be

giving a seminar a discussion with quite

a small group of people and then onwards

from there to Massachusetts I’m doing an

event up in Massachusetts I’m then going

to be doing a couple of events in New

York and then finally back to back to

the west coast

and before returning to England on I

think the fourth of June so all the

details are up there on the talks and

events page

my website and I hope people will will

join I’ve had some amazing events in

America great audiences wonderful

questions and a lot of love and support

which makes me which makes me feel very

grateful because I have been a

controversial figure I have taken a lot

of flack from the archaeologists and

their buddies in the media but I’m also

aware that I am given a lot of love and

a lot of support by my readers and I’m

enormous ly grateful for that and I need

to say this as a writer I would be

nowhere without my readers writing has

no impact unless it’s read and unless

those readers then take the ideas out

there and work with them themselves and

do their own thing with them and I’m

pleased to say that seems to be what’s

happening with my work and I I’m just

grateful gratitude to my readers indeed

indeed and I mean I think you mentioned

I’m wrapping this up but in I think you

mentioned that some of your like after

after lecture signings are taking up to

seven hours and you stay with your

readers to make sure that every single

one of them gets a chance to you know

get your signature maybe even shake your


absolutely and take and take photographs

I I still don’t understand why anybody

would want to take a photograph with

this old man but I’m very willing to

stand up and take photographs this is my

opportunity to give back I owe

everything to my readers I will never

leave an event until the last of my

readers and the last of those attending

the event have left I will always stay

there it’s run me down I’ve got I’ve got

very exhausted physically it’s very

demanding but emotionally it’s very

satisfying to be able to it makes it

real for me

to talk to talk to those who read my

work to spend time with them to honor

them and to respect them and and I

commit to always doing that because I

always have to keep this in perspective

I’m just a writer the writing doesn’t

matter unless it’s read and unless those

readers then take action and talk to

others about what they’ve what they’ve

read in my books I owe everything to my

readers and and I want to give back and

that’s what I’m here to do indeed indeed

my friend thank you so much Graham the

guys the book is called America before

Graham Hancock is my guest

America before the key to Earth’s

lost civilization it’s on shelves you

can go and get the book I highly

recommend this I recommend reading it

more than once there’s a lot of

information here if you enjoyed this

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like this show buy us a coffee that

would be great otherwise Graham any

closing statements here man I think I

think the only closing statement I have

is to say this life is a mystery we are

immersed in a mystery we live in an

enchanted realm let’s remember that the

enchantment and the mystery and the

magic that’s what it’s all about it’s

not about material possessions and

wealth and power it’s about recognising

the magic of being alive at all and of

having this opportunity to live however

many years we give it in a human body

with the capacity to learn and to grow

and to develop indeed Graham thank you

so much so much for your time my friend

guys we’re gonna get out of here you

we’re back on Thursday this week with

our guest Kostas danzo’s and here we go

see you later this week

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