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[Music]you are listening to the human
experience podcast
my name is Xavier katana we’ve got such
an amazing show for you guys today
a lot of preparation behind this show my
guest today is mr. Graham Hancock he is
the investigative author of a number of
best-selling books that look at a range
of topics from the Ark of the Covenant
to the very origins of civilization
Graham it’s a pleasure pleasure to
welcome welcome you back to hxp my
friend thank you so much for being here
nice to be with you say be a nice to be
back so so Graham I mean you’ve got this
new book here we’re definitely to get
into that but first before we do that I
want to talk about some of the the
health issues that you’ve been going
through you were in the hospital for a
little bit right yeah well okay so the
new the whilst researching the new book
which is called America before I was
traveling all over North America and
with my wife Santa who’s a photographer
and and she and I had a particularly
arduous trip in the southwest in Arizona
and New Mexico in May 2017 getting baked
every day in the Sun out looking at
those extraordinary ancient sites in the
southwest and one night it during during
May in New Mexico I kind of felt unwell
when I went to bed late at night and
then I what I remember is waking up
during the night thinking I was going to
throw up
going to the bathroom and then that’s
the last thing I remember and then the
next information comes from my wife
Santa who finds me writhing on the floor
out she notices I’m missing from the bed
she finds me right writhing on the floor
between the bathroom and the hallway
unconscious blood pouring from my mouth
quite a dramatic scene she turns my head
on the side so I don’t choke on my own
blood and then calls the cause the calls
at nine nine one one the ambulance
service and and the paramedics
and I’m rushed to rush to hospital about
20 miles away from where we were staying
and I don’t remember any of this about
about 24 hours later I come back to I
come back to consciousness and nobody
really understands what’s happened to me
initially the diagnosis actually that I
was given was was wrong but
understandable they discovered that I
have a condition called atrial
fibrillation which is an irregular beat
of the heart that can cause strokes and
the initial conclusion was that I’d had
some sort of mini stroke this was not
the case in fact what I’d had was an
epileptic seizure and this became much
clearer at two months or three months
later in England in August 2017 when
again the same precursors feeling
slightly nausea s– occurred and then
suddenly I I had a root rouille massive
series of seizures which were completely
unstoppable it took to ambulance crews
to get me into the ambulance again I
don’t remember apparently I was roaring
and shouting the ambulance was bouncing
from side to side with me inside it I
was writhing and in a state of constant
convulsion they take me to the hospital
the convulsions get worse they try all
kinds of interventions they can’t reduce
the convulsions Santa’s taken aside by
the medics and told look this is really
bad news we think you’re going to lose
your husband he’s almost certainly going
to die if he lives he’s going to be
severely brain-damaged compulsions go on
finally they put me into a an induced
coma they they put a ventilator down my
throat again I remember nothing of this
they put a ventilator down my throat put
me into a deep induced coma total
blackness just no no memory of it just
darkness and 48 hours later they bring
me out of the coma and I don’t know
where the hell I am and I wake up in
hospital I still got the ventilator down
my throat I think what the is this
you know I don’t understand I feel like
I’ve been violated I look around I see I
see my children my children who who
traveled all the way from America you
know my son Sean who lives in Los
Angeles my daughter Shanti who was then
in New York there by my bedside I can’t
understand why my other kids are there
the ones who live in the UK are there as
well it’s it’s is this a complete
mystery to me what’s what’s going on and
then gradually the fog begins to clear
they take the ventilator out I’m
breathing for myself and and the whole
story is told to me that I’ve had this
this massive set of epileptic seizures
grand mal seizures and but it was a
closed thing well that’s a lesson for me
you know I brings home to me how how
flimsy the veil is between life and
death how we’re all living on borrowed
time whether we like it or not
and and at any moment we can we can we
can leave this beautiful garden of a
planet and find ourselves well who knows
where that’s one of the mysteries I
addressed in the new book is the mystery
of life after death
but it also it also said to me value
this life loved every minute of it
appreciate every moment of it learn
everything you can try to contribute in
whatever way you can to making things
better rather but rather than worse it
was it was a profound it was a profound
lesson for me and and I’m still at risk
of seizures I did have a minor seizure
this year knocked me out only for a few
minutes and that was that was my own
stupid fault because I’d stopped I’d
reduced my dose of anticonvulsant
medication on just on a whim I felt I
was taking too much of it and I reduced
the dose and within three days I had
another seizure so needless to say I’m
back on the meds now and keeping myself
as fit as I can trying to avoid stress
where possible although it’s very
difficult to avoid stress on an
extremely long eight-week book tour
across the United States which I’m in
the middle of at the moment yes so no I
mean there’s only there’s only one
Graham Hancock on the planet we we can’t
lose you I mean you’ve pioneered a lot
of this work that it’s true but I mean
you’ve done so much we all have we all
have our part to play in our role our
role to play on this planet and yeah III
you know I’ve got my thing and I do my
thing but I don’t think it makes me
special it’s just the same
everybody else humble I like that I mean
and we were talking about this a little
bit in the pre-show I mean you’ve your
perspective has changed in in my regards
of my experience of you you’re you’ve
always been a fierce person you’ve
always been highly intense charged and
kind of like a Raging Bull
okay you know like you just sort of
attack things and now something I’ve
noticed in you is there’s a little bit
more of a patient or give just it’s an
understanding it seems of the human
condition you know the human body thank
you for that maybe it’s just getting
older you know and having haven’t gone
through having gone through these
experiences yes you’re right I have been
I have been very intense all through my
writing career but particularly since
the late 1980s early 1990s when I got
into this whole mystery of a lost
civilization struck me as an intriguing
fascinating mystery from our from our
past and and I was I was initially
surprised at the amount of vitriol and
hatred that my idea stirred up amongst
archaeologists and amongst their friends
in the media and generally amongst
mainstream Orthodox thinkers in general
I was treated from the outset like an
enemy I was treated like a pariah I was
I was attacked
I was vilified ideas were attributed to
me that I never held and then those
ideas were attacked as though I did hold
them and I guess it made me very
defensive and I began to feel I began to
feel that I’m in some kind of I’m in
some kind of battle here this is not
just this is not just an exchange of
ideas this is not this is not simply me
trying to contribute what I think might
be useful to a to an intelligent and
constructive debate this is actually an
ideological war where I’m up against
where I’m up against people who wish to
misrepresent me in any in any possible
way in order to diminish the impact of
the ideas that I’m that I’m putting
forward so I I really took my cue from
that I felt attacked and and I guess I
went into attack mode myself maybe
philosophically that was a mistake I was
a younger man there
but that’s that’s how III took it if
people if people are gonna fight me I’m
gonna fight them back that was the kind
of attitude that I took and I guess I
did become you know a bit of a bit of a
fighter in this field and I’m sure I’ve
said some harsh words and you know maybe
I should reflect on on all of that just
because you know some asshole in some
University says harsh words about me it
doesn’t mean I have to say harsh words
back though perhaps these are the
lessons that I’m learning yeah I mean it
Graham so it’s a perfect segue into your
work and the the nature of the the
mystery behind some some of the history
that that is part of the human story and
why do you think why do you think that
your work has been vilified why why do
you think that just the the sort of
exploration of these ideas is is such a
subject of such controversy I think I
think there’s a complicated set of
reasons for that and part of it is to do
with this the way that science and
within science as a sub-discipline of
science archaeology defined itself in
the in the 19th century there were a lot
of very sloppy ideas in around in the
19th century people bought fully into
the biblical narrative there was a lot
of superstition people believed that the
earth was only 6,000 years old and you
know like that and and science
actually did need to get rid of all that
baggage it did need to get rid of the
the superstitions and the uh thought-out
arguments and the UH Neva dense claims
and it did need to replace them with
solid evidence but in the in the process
I think that science through the baby
out with the bathwater and it became a
very very narrow focused field which was
based on weighing and measuring and
Counting and in the case of archeology
of interpreting often very thin and
limited quantities of of data however
the role of the archaeologists may seem
obscure but it is in fact extremely
important because ha what archaeologists
are
they’re the profession they’re the
so-called experts who we have entrusted
with the role of interpreting our own
past to us we have handed that role over
to them just like we hand over to the
surgeon the role of removing our
appendix because the surgeon is an
expert in removing appendices so also we
we hand over the role of interpreting
our past to the archaeologists because
they’re supposed to be the experts in in
our past but you know an appendix is a
little bit different from the human past
an appendix there are our appendix or
any other organ of the body does not
cause us to define ourselves in certain
ways whereas our notion of our past is
fundamental to our understanding of our
present and to our definition of who we
are and and if we’ve got the past
radically wrong then that is a that is a
very serious error which which is not
simply academic but but impacts our
whole notion of what the human adventure
is about and what we’re doing here and
what our what our story really is and I
think that this is where ideology enters
into the picture and where someone such
as myself or or colleagues like John and
the late great John Anthony West or
Robert Bauval ended up getting attacked
was because we were we were offering an
alternative view of the human past and
we were not doing so in the way that
archaeologists would have liked us to do
so archaeologists would have liked us to
do so with flimsy arguments with on
evidenced speculations fantasy and and
woowoo whereas actually what we did was
we presented solidly documented evidence
we backed up our our findings in our
research well and and this is this has
been my project from from the beginning
is to present a thorough coherently
argued alternative view of the human
past which leaves room for an
extraordinary possibility and that is
that we may be a species with amnesia
that we may have lost a whole chapter of
the human story and that in losing that
whole chapter of the human story art
geologists are implicated because of
their approach and their research
methods and they’re rather dogmatic
insistence that the past is a certain
way and cannot be any other way
really the whole archaeological
profession will without really thinking
about the matter just as an automatic
knee-jerk reaction will reject and
despise and pour scorn upon the notion
of a lost civilization of the Ice Age
because if that notion is correct then
the whole foundations of the
archeological profession and much more
importantly the whole foundations of our
understanding of our past as the human
species are wrong and archaeology bears
a heavy responsibility for that so
rather than and I think it’s perfectly
understandable but but it’s just that
it’s just the way things are people do
defend their territory rather than
saying ok well let’s look at these ideas
let’s see if there’s something to them
from the very beginning those
professional interpreters of our past
who we call archaeologists have reacted
to my work by saying even though they
often have not read a word of it have
reacted to my work by saying this is
complete rubbish this man is trying to
mislead the public he’s a fantasised
he’s a liar he’s he’s making things up
and obviously when you’re at the
receiving end of that kind of after
a while it makes you it makes you angry
especially when as is as is the case
with me as was the case with John
Anthony West as is the case with with
Robert Bauval we are honestly and
genuinely trying to give the public our
take on the past we’re not trying to
delude anybody or mislead anybody we’re
saying that there may be serious
problems with the archaeological
representation of the past this is what
we think the problems are here and here
is the documentary evidence to prove it
take this away go think about it and
maybe what you’ve been taught in school
is not something that you will just
accept at face value any longer yes yes
I feel that feel that so Graham okay so
now let’s move into America before I’ve
got this book in my hand right now I
mean it’s a dense read it’s not your
casual everyday I mean it’s it’s packed
full of information you talk about so
much you talk about this idea that
perhaps America was you know also
related to the Pyramids of Giza you
mentioned the the site and Mount
villainville Alabama where you point to
similarities between this Native
Americans site and you know something
that that Giza is pointing to what was
what was that simulator what’s the
connection this is clear about this
firstly as to the density of the book
which which I hope is also nonetheless
makes a good read because it’s my
personal story and it’s my my adventure
through the through the Americas but but
I feel it again it’s important not to be
flimsy my project is to in my most
ambitious moments I would say that my
project is ultimately perhaps not in my
lifetime but through through the ideas
that my work and the work of others have
contributed is to bring about a
rewriting of the prehistory of the human
species and since we are dealing with a
prehistory of the human species that has
pretty much been set in stone for the
last hundred and fifty years and that is
defended by a powerful group of
so-called experts named archaeologists
in order to do that it’s essential to
put forward solid thoroughly based
evidence based arguments which which can
which can weigh in on that on that
battlefield so I don’t shy away from
that it’s necessary I do and I don’t
patronize my readers either I think that
I think that my readers are intelligent
questioning people and that they’re and
that they’re capable of working through
the evidence as I as I present it and
that’s why that’s why the book is is
thoroughly documented has 1500 footnotes
and and includes interviews and many
encounters with mainstream scientists
from many different fields not just
archaeologists but also for example
geneticists and then secondly the the
the the situation in the in the Americas
is particularly dire as regards
archaeology nobody
until very recently and perhaps perhaps
I’m perhaps I’m amongst the first has
really seriously considered the
possibility that the origins of
civilization may actually be in the
Americas in the so called new world
rather than in the so called old world
it’s something that we almost take in
with our mother’s milk we’re taught this
outlook from from childhood in school
and on through university wherever we
live in the world we are taught that
civilization is an old world invention
that it began somewhere in the Fertile
Crescent typically the ancient
civilization of the Sumerians is cited
as the origins of civilization there’s
even a book called history begins at
Sumer and it’s thought that about 6,000
years ago after 4,000 or so four or five
thousand years of gradual preparation of
developing agriculture of developing
stable communities that about 6,000
years ago the first real cities emerged
in Mesopotamia between the Tigris and
the Euphrates rivers and this became the
Sumerian civilization and it was
supposedly the first civilization of
history and then civilizations spread
out across the old world but the fixed
and firm view is that there was no such
thing as a great city based civilization
in the Americas until much much much
much much later than that this this was
the fixed view and the notion that the
notion that actually the whole idea of
civilization could have originated in
the Americas has been completely
rejected by archaeology and regards it
totally as old world property and what
I’ve set out to do in America before is
to show that that is not correct and
that the Americas have been particularly
badly served by archaeology American
American archaeology is a sub-discipline
within the global discipline of
archaeology and of course archaeology
largely deals with prehistory when we’re
dealing with written documents
it’s more a matter to do with history
rather than archaeology but when we’re
dealing with interpretation of artifacts
and of and of for example megalithic
sites around the world where there are
no written documents that that tends to
be the discipline of archeology and of
course archeology is a subject that’s
studied in virtually every country in
the world but in the Americas there has
there has for a very long time been a
very rigid fixed and firm view about the
origins of civilization and American
archaeologists have simply refused
adamantly refused to consider the
possibility that civilization might have
had much more ancient origins and then
they suppose and furthermore that those
origins might not have been in the
so-called old world but might have been
in the new world and see this that we
can see underlying this a kind of dogma
admittedly now within the last within
the last seven or eight years
archaeologists American archaeologists
have begun to fess up and to and to
admit to the public even you know
prestigious institutions like the the
Smithsonian have now put this in writing
that unfortunately unintentionally
without it being deliberately so
archaeology archaeology American
archaeology has grotesquely misled the
public about the story of the peopling
of the Americas once you start talking
about civilization you must first ask
yourself when did people arrived in the
Americas that’s the fundamental question
kind of any kind of civilization until
you have people living in the Americas
and right through into the 21st century
it’s only they’ve only really begun to
admit that they got it all wrong since
about 2009 2010 right through into the
21st century it was the firmly held view
of archaeologists this view took root
round about the 1960s and it held for 50
years for half a century that there had
been no human beings in the Americas
before
thirteen thousand four hundred years ago
a very specific date there and that date
connects to a culture that
archaeologists call the
Clovis culture we don’t know what the
people of the Clovis culture called
themselves that’s a name that
archeologists have given to that culture
which we know almost everything we know
about them we know from their stone
tools that they left behind the reason
why they’re called the Clovis culture is
very very simple and and and worth
bearing in mind because because it
indicates the UM the unstated things
about our past we here the Clovis
culture a lot of us think oh that’s what
they call themselves no it’s not what
they call themselves
it’s what archeologists call them and
the reason that archeologists call them
the Clovis culture is that the first
major Clovis so-called type site to be
excavated was Blackwater draw in new
mexico and the archaeologists there back
in the 60s who were excavating that site
they couldn’t get beer at Blackwater
draw but 20 miles down the road at
Clovis New Mexico they could get beer
and that’s why we now call this culture
who were supposedly the first Americans
we call them the Clovis culture and
round this evolved a Dogma called Clovis
first which adamantly claimed that the
Clovis culture were the first Americans
they arrived thirteen thousand four
hundred years ago there were no human
beings in the Americas before that I
mean if you pause to think about it
that’s such a weird idea because the
because the large animal species the
megafauna that are found in in Northeast
Asia in Siberia for example our walls
were also found in in the Americas for
hundreds of thousands of years before
that obviously animal species were going
back and forward but somehow
archaeologists became convinced that
human beings weren’t doing so so it
became the and I will use that word
quite deliberately and specifically
without any apology it became a dogma of
archeology as powerful as any of the
dogmas of the Catholic Church it became
a dogma of archaeology that there were
no human beings in the Americas before
thirteen thousand four hundred years ago
and any archaeologists who dared to
question that Dogma who had the
misfortune to stump
across a site with evidence that human
beings had been present there much
earlier for example Jacque sank Mars a
Canadian archaeologist at bluefish caves
in the Yukon finding evidence of human
beings there 24,000 years ago for
example our Goodyear who’s professor of
archaeology at the University of South
Carolina excavating the topper site in
South Carolina finding evidence that
humans had been there 50,000 years ago
for example dr. Tom Desmarais who’s the
chief paleontologist at the San Diego
Natural History Museum who published a
major paper in the rigorous
peer-reviewed journal Nature on the 26th
of April 2017 concerning the excavation
of a site called the cerruti mastodon
site evidencing human presence in the
americas 130,000 years ago all of these
individuals who were proposing a notion
that was not accepted by archaeological
dogma have found themselves under
massive attack from the rest of the
archaeological profession so not only
not only was there a dogma that there
were no human beings here before
thirteen thousand four hundred years ago
but there was also a kind of Clovis
police which ideologically policed
evidence and ideas in this area and
thoroughly worked to expunge and destroy
any ideas that question the dogma and
this went on for far too long it’s a
shame to the archaeological profession
some of them are now denying that it
even happened but it happened and
prestigious institutions such as nature
such as the Smithsonian Institution have
at least had the honesty to admit this
in the last in the last ten years you
know it’s it’s often the case with with
archaeology when they get things wrong
that they kind of try to rewrite the
story later and say wow this is what we
believed all the time and some of them
are saying it now but the record is
clear and I document that record
thoroughly in America before this is a
shame to the world of archaeology that
this dogma was allowed to hold in place
for so long in the Americas and it has
held back grievously our understanding
of the human path because the result was
that no funding was available for
archaeologists who wished
to look in older deposits you know in
our key ology where the the closer
something is surface the younger it is
and the deeper down you dig the the
older it is because because these strata
are laid down in layers on the on the
Earth’s surface and for a long time it
was it was held to be ridiculous that
any archaeologist would risk would seek
research funding to dig beneath the
clovis layer because archaeology
supposedly had already established that
Clovis were the first Americans and
therefore what was the point of spending
money looking deeper well the answer is
now we have the evidence from all over
the Americas of vastly more ancient
sites not only in North America but also
in Central America and in South America
evidence of sites going back tens of
thousands of years and for so long this
evidence was missed or minimized or
shoved off to the side simply because of
that almost fanatical religious dogma
called cold Clovis first and I’ll call
it as I see it archaeology has failed
the world public when it comes to the
story of the peopling of the Americas
and it is only now waking up to the
absolute magnitude and depth of that
failure but the implications about
failure don’t only concern the issue of
when people first came to the Americas
and now the evidence is very strong that
that was at least 130 thousand years ago
which is twice as long as human beings
were present in Europe for example and
twice as long as they seem to have been
present in Australia we have a human
presence in the Americas twice as long
as that ten times as old as Clovis what
was happening during those hundred and
thirty thousand years where adamantly
for so long archaeologists simply
refused to look and it’s my case that
we’ve missed a really important part of
the human story in the Americas as a
result of that archaeological dogma but
also there’s more to it than that the
Americas did suffer a gigantic Cataclysm
between twelve thousand eight hundred
and eleven thousand six hundred years
ago and that Cataclysm too played a part
in sweeping the record clean
Wow it’s it’s a lot it’s a lot of
information to take in grandma now you
know I appreciate your thoroughness
I appreciate your your Ament the immense
amount of research and collection of
information that you’ve connected the
dots for us you know so I want I really
want to bring up this the relationship
between the Giza site in Egypt and the
The Book of the Dead the Duat and the C
I’m recalling now but it all it all it
all ties together in a certain way yes
as I was researching America before I
was I was very surprised to discover
that certain really fundamental and very
distinctive and idiosyncratic ideas that
are part of the ancient Egyptian
spiritual system are also found in
almost identical form amongst the
ancient cultures of the Mississippi
Valley in in North America and and as I
was as I dug deeper in this and again
the full reasoning behind this and the
evidence behind this is given in the
book as I as I dug deeper into this it
became clear to me that this was not
coincidence
nor was it evidence of some kind of
ancient Egyptian missionary expedition
to North America in ancient historical
times or vice versa
nor was it evidence of an ancient
American missionary expedition to the
Nile Valley in ancient historical times
this is evidence that goes back deep
into prehistory this evidence goes back
to the last ice age the reason for these
similarities and I’ll go into some of
them in a moment
reason for these similarities is that
both the cultures of the Mississippi
Valley and the culture of ancient Egypt
inherited a shared legacy from a remote
common ancestor just as to individuals
today who don’t actually know they’re
related in any way if their DNA testing
is done it can be found that 50
generations back actually they did have
a common ancestor the signal is still
there in the DNA so it is with cultural
material and and and in the cultural DNA
of the ancient Egyptians and
in the cultural DNA of the Mississippi
Valley are certain distinctive ideas and
the only way that those ideas can be
explained is that both of these widely
separated cultures received them as a
legacy from a much earlier culture that
influenced both regions and that must
have done so before 12,000 years ago in
other words during the last ice age so
we’re looking at a legacy here and that
and that legacy just to give you a few
examples which you find both in the
Mississippi Valley and in ancient Egypt
appears to be the legacy of a very
ancient religion and I believe that this
was a it’s not the only aspect of the
legacy geometry astronomy all kinds of
Sciences are part of that that as well
but this was a this was I believe the
religion of the lost civilization and it
concerned a deep investigation into the
mystery of life after death so both in
ancient Egypt and in the ancient
Mississippi Valley the the constellation
of Orion was incredibly important the
ancient the ancient Egyptians saw Orion
as the celestial excuse me as the
celestial figure of the god Osiris the
god of resurrection and rebirth and for
the ancient Egyptians the notion was
that the soul of the deceased would make
a kind of leap to the heavens would rise
up to the sky after death and would
would enter a kind of portal in the
constellation of Orion and would pass
through that portal to the Milky Way
where it would then make a journey along
the Milky Way which was in the heart of
what the ancient Egyptians called the do
earth the afterlife Kingdom and on that
journey along the Milky Way the soul
would be held to account for the life
that he or she had lived and would face
challenges and ordeals that were
appropriate to the good things or the
bad things that had been done during the
course of the life that was given to
that to that soul so I was very
surprised
when I came to Moundville in Alabama
with no prior knowledge of this to find
exactly the same set of ideas there and
anybody who cares to go to Marvel can
see all this written up in great detail
on noticeboards around the site and and
in the museum where certain artifacts
are shown again the constellation of
Orion plays a key role in the
Mississippi Valley it’s not represented
as a man in the sky it’s represented as
a hand and forearm in the sky the three
stars of Orion’s belt form the wrist of
the hand other stars form the thumb and
the fingers and there is a portal in the
palm of that hand which corresponds with
the Orion Nebula that lies in the sky
directly beneath the three stars of
Orion’s belt and again just as in
ancient Egypt there’s this concept of a
of a leap a soaring leap to the sky
passing through that portal in Orion and
then making a journey along the banks of
the Milky Way where the soul will be
held to account and faced with
challenges and ordeals generated by the
life
that that individual has lived on earth
and and that there are many many many
remarkable similarities between the
ancient Egyptian afterlife realm and the
Mississippi Valley afterlife realm for
example both of those afterlife realms
are filled with gigantic winged serpents
in both cases there is a feline creature
it’s called the underwater panther in
the Native American tradition it’s
called the Sphinx in in in Egypt we
still have of course a giant Sphinx on
the Giza Plateau it has a human head now
but when it was originally made more
than 12,000 years ago as I and my
colleagues have long argued it had also
the head of a lion that head was heavily
eroded over thousands of years and was
carved down into a human head wearing
the classic Nemus headdress of the
ancient egyptian pharaohs in historical
times around about 4,500 years ago
because the exist the previous lion head
had been so badly damaged by erosion
it’s very curious that on the path of
souls in the Native American tradition
the underwater pan that we have
surviving representations of the
underwater panther and it looks exactly
like the great sphinx of giza right down
to intimate details like the positions
of its paws and the way that its tail
curves curves around its curves around
its back and and there are many many
many more examples of this sort that I
go into in great detail you know one or
two of them could be a coincidence
but when you start adding them all
together I’ll give you another another
example a match concerns the the entity
called the Birdman in Native American
tradition the bird man is a hero deity
in the Mississippian religious system he
represents the triumph of life over
death and he is depicted as a man with
with a human body but with the head of a
hawk and we have an identical figure
playing an identical role in ancient
Egypt and he’s the god Horus he’s the
hero deity he represents the triumph of
life after death and he also of life
over death and he also is represented
with a figure that the body of a man and
the and the head of a hawk and I could
go on endlessly about this but that’s
why I wrote the book and those who want
the detail on this and why I must
conclude that this is the result of a
legacy that’s more than 12,000 years old
rather than any kind of missionary
expedition during historical periods the
evidence for that is is set out in
detail in America before yes yes yes
it’s in the book we’re in but grandma I
really want to ask you you know these
are these are cultures that are
separated by both geography and time but
yet the end you mentioned it just now
there are these coincidences that come
up over and over and over and it seems
like there is some sort of message that
we’re being indicated towards or led to
and perhaps even you know based on
corporate interest or something else you
know based on maybe the conditions of
the system here the earth life system
but this information is kept from us so
that there almost seems to be two groups
of people people who are in the know
people who know about this and people
who don’t
about this so you know how how can all
these different cultures be pointing at
the same thing at different points in
time separated by thousands of years and
that’s precisely why I argue that it’s a
legacy rather than the result of direct
contact I mean there couldn’t possibly
have been direct contact between
Moundville in Alabama which is a
thousand years old and the ancient
Egyptian civilization which vanished
from history at the end of the Roman
period about 600 years before Marvel was
even created if we if we find as we do
and again it’s thoroughly documented in
the book if we find these astonishing
range of similarities that cannot be a
coincidence then we have to explain it
and we can’t explain it by direct
contact we the only way to explain it is
that both of these cultures inherited a
legacy which was passed down culturally
over hundreds and thousands of
generations which manifested in Egypt in
a certain way which manifested in North
America in a certain way there are many
differences between these cultures and
those differences makes sense when you
realize that these cultures have been
evolving separately for tens of
thousands of years but there are many
many striking similarities as well and
those are what I call the cultural DNA
that these cultures share that they
inherited from a remote common ancestor
that was carefully preserved and passed
down and then was brought into play in
symbolism in architecture in in great
earthworks or or all over the world was
was manifested it was always waiting
there to be manifested and at different
times in different places
it was manifested when you get to grips
with it when you get right down to the
details you find that the shared
cultural DNA is there that the same
fundamental ideas the same fundamental
mysteries are being are being explored
in the same way using the same
iconography and this simply cannot be a
coincidence the best explanation is that
what we’re looking at is a global legacy
it wasn’t only passed down in the mists
bevarly and in ancient Egypt it was
passed down in many many other parts of
the world as well it was passed down in
South America and I go into that in
detail there it’s it’s integrated with
the consumption of the mysterious
visionary brew called ayahuasca and it’s
not accidental that ayahuasca means the
vine of the Dead or the vine of souls it
was passed down in Mesopotamia
Mesopotamia was not the origin ancient
Sumer was not the originator of
civilization it also was a recipient of
this legacy from a civilization that was
destroyed at the at the end of the last
ice age but nonetheless a civilization
from which there were survivors in that
Cataclysm that unfolded on the earth
between twelve thousand eight hundred
and eleven thousand six hundred years
ago geologists call that Cataclysm the
Younger Dryas there were survivors yes
their civilization was destroyed but
there were survivors and they made it
their business to wonder the world and
to seek to restart civilization and to
implant their fundamental ideas amongst
the then hunter-gatherer cultures with
whom they settled and took refuge and
this legacy once being passed on then
came to fruition at different times in
different places the the manifestation
of the legacy did not always occur at
the same time everywhere around the
world although I have to say there is a
striking manifestation that does occur
between five and six thousand years ago
we see it in Sumer we see it in ancient
Egypt and we see it in South America for
example with the civilization of corral
that great complex of pyramids that lies
about 60 miles to the north of Lima in
in Peru which also dates to around five
thousand years ago so it seems that
there was some there was some guiding
force behind the scenes in history that
shows certain moments to manifest this
legacy and in quite a number of parts of
the world that legacy manifests between
6,000 and 5,000 years ago but in other
parts of the world it takes longer to
manifest I believe it manifested in
North America earlier earlier as well
you can trace back the origins of the
so-called mound builder cultures way
beyond Moundville in Alabama you can
trace them back at Poverty Point in
Louisiana to 2500 years ago you can
trace them back to watson break in
Louisiana to 5,500 years ago and other
other sites in the lower Mississippi
Valley going back eight 9,000 years all
sharing the same geometry and the same
system of ideas and if only North
America had not been so intent on
destroying the Native American legacy
which unfortunately is the case the
Native American legacy of great sites
and earthworks and structures in North
America was subjected to terrible
destruction in the 19th century and
through into the 20th century so just
while archeologists were seeking to
destroy the cultural ideas by giving
only minimal importance to Native
American cultures in the 19th and early
20th centuries I’m not saying that’s
what archaeology are doing now they’re
much more enlightened now and they
recognized the value of ancient American
civilizations but in the 19th and 20th
20th centuries the whole project was to
justify the anglo-saxon conquest of
North America and the land grab that
that was part of it they’re taking away
of the lands from the indigenous
inhabitants also included destroying all
traces that those indigenous inhabitants
were in fact highly civilized and that’s
why 90% of the mound builder and
earthworks sites that have that were
documented in the 19th century are now
completely gone
they’ve been plowed under for
agricultural land they’ve been replaced
with housing estates or with industrial
parks the site’s themselves many of them
documented in the 19th century are now
just completely gone there’s nothing
there for archaeologists to work with at
all you know and no wonder we’re a
species with amnesia if we’re so willing
to wipe out our past and no matter how
much we regret it now the fact is in
North America that so much of that past
was deliberately swept away and
destroyed and we’re left with really a
tiny remnant to work with today
yeah it’s so profound your words Graham
I really find the potent potency of them
so accurate and you mentioned something
that I really wanted to touch on because
I find I osku you I find that you know
your work dovetails this it’s it’s as if
you you know you explore these two
things in your work ayahuasca and these
ancient civilizations but in in America
before you use you could start to
connect these dots for for this ancient
brew or this brew medicine of the soul
and these ancient civilizations what
what is the connection there between
this this vine and and this leaf being
combined together and these ancient
civilizations can you connect that for
us there’s a lot of points to make here
the first is the first the first is a
point concerning the character of the
lost civilization that I’ve made it my
my project to to attempt to bring back
to public attention over the last
quarter of a century or so and I believe
that that civilization had a very
different character from our own that it
was less focused on material things more
focused on on what our real purpose is
on this planet I can’t prove that this
is the case but I I think our real
purpose on this planet is to grow and
develop and nurture the soul so that we
pass through the experience of life this
an incarnation in a human body and we
learn and grow and develop from it and
are able to move on to another level
perhaps after many different lifetimes
that’s my personal belief system but it
also appears to have been the belief
system of a civilization of remote
antiquity and a belief system that was
as I said passed down as a legacy in in
many different parts of the world and
one of the things that was different
about this civilization from our own was
that is that it made use of visionary
experiences our civilization rejects
visionary experiences we despise and I
mean you know if you want to insult
somebody mildly you might call that
person a dreamer well frankly speaking
in the ancient world
to be a dreamer was a really good thing
because because dreaming was regarded as
one of the valid gateways to true
knowledge if we understood and explored
our dreams carefully we would learn very
important truths in the modern world
that’s completely despised and dreams
are regarded as just completely
meaningless fictions of knowing of no
importance whatsoever and and also in
the modern world again there’s a new
awakening now the younger generation is
waking up and are changing things but
for most of the 20th century and well
into the 21st psychedelics were
demonized by our society and those who
chose to exercise their sovereign right
as adults to explore their own
consciousness or to or to manage their
own health through using these ancient
medicinal teacher plants that profoundly
alter our state of consciousness anybody
who sought to do that risked a jail term
risked imprisonment risked having their
lives ruined by the authorities the lost
civilization I’m in visiting will had a
completely different focus it regarded
these experiences in altered states of
consciousness as absolutely fundamental
to the human project and that if we cut
ourselves off from these experiences and
deny these experiences to ourselves
we’re going to lose track of a very
important part of what of what we are
and we’re also going to fail to benefit
from the insights and the creative
understandings that come in altered
states of consciousness yes the state of
consciousness our society values which I
call the alert problem-solving state of
consciousness does have a role it’s an
important state of consciousness I’ve
said this many times before and I’ll say
it again when I get on an airplane I
would like the pilot to be in an alert
problem-solving state of consciousness
and I would like he or she to remain in
that elite problem-solving state of
consciousness until they land me safely
at the airport I’m going to after that I
don’t care what they do with their
consciousness but the alert
problem-solving state of consciousness
is appropriate to certain human
activities but the mistake is to believe
it’s the only valuable state of
consciousness whereas in fact we are
vastly
diverse creatures with enormous
potential and that potential can be
realized through exploring other states
of consciousness either through
meditation either through fasting either
through the use of the teacher plants
like like ayahuasca or the fungi like
psilocybin or the cacti like peyote or
San Pedro using these using these plants
brings us into a different state of
consciousness which is not the alert
problem-solving state of consciousness
but which is a state of consciousness in
which we may have fundamental insights
and fundamental creative discoveries
that we would not make otherwise and
which is also a state of consciousness
in which healing becomes possible
self-healing becomes possible you know I
mean I’ll give you an example it’s not
an accident that Steve Jobs and and and
what was niak who founded Apple regarded
LSD is very fundamental to their project
that Apple probably would never have
been started without LSD that’s enough
proof proof alone that that that these
altered states of consciousness can
result in extraordinarily important
creative insights and for a society to
deny itself that based on some kind of
ideological dogma which which elevates
the alert problem-solving state of
consciousness to a kind of monopoly
that’s a that’s a huge mistake and I
think the lost civilization that I’ve
been trying to bring back into public
consciousness was it was a civilization
that valued and nurtured altered states
of consciousness and understood how to
amplify and magnify those for the
benefit of the whole population so the
Great Pyramid of Giza is not the tomb of
a Pharaoh the Great Pyramid of Giza is a
consciousness amplifying engine and
anybody who has the opportunity to spend
time alone inside the Great Pyramid even
thousands of years after it’s built will
will realize that’s the case sorry I’m
going on at great length but there was
another aspect to your question and that
concerned the ayahuasca brew hmm and the
fact that it has more than one
ingredient mm-hmm this is extremely
important because it’s proof of an
ancient science in the Amazon a science
that’s extremely old
it’s a simple fact that there’s about a
hundred and fifty thousand different
species of plants and trees and vines in
the Amazon but if you want to make
ayahuasca you’re going to have to select
just two of them neither of which is
psychoactive on its own one of them is
the bush that but botanists call
psychotria viridis it’s called
Shatrughna
in the amazon its eaves contain
dimethyltryptamine and the other
ingredient is the ayahuasca vine now
many in the West and the game there’s a
resurgence and interest in this have
experienced dimethyltryptamine DMT many
in the in the modern world have have
experienced this mysterious substance
called DMT arguably the most powerful
hallucinogen known to science and and
typically in Western industrialized
societies this is experienced through
smoking or vaping DMT and when that
happens I guess I’ve had maybe fifteen
or sixteen trips with vaped DMT when you
hit the right dose you are you are taken
out of your body
there’s no argument there’s no
discussion if you hit the right dose you
are you’re your consciousness is just
ripped out of your body and you’re taken
off to a seamlessly convincing utterly
overwhelming parallel realm where things
happen very fast although consciously
they may seem to be very slow and and
the overwhelming deluge of impressions
is so much that it’s often difficult to
remember anything that happened you know
that you had a profound experience you
have the sense that you downloaded
something of great importance but you
don’t really know what it is you come
out of it often in a state of confusion
I’m not saying everybody does but it’s
very very commonly the case so this the
vaped DMT trip is a really is in fact in
in terms of real minutes a very short
journey it’s eight to twelve minutes
that you’re in there and then you’re out
and back back into your everyday state
of consciousness and wondering actually
what the hell happened to you it’s so
rapid so overwhelming it’s very
difficult to integrate the experiences
so what you’d like is a way to make the
power of DMT last longer for it to be
more accessible and perhaps a little
more gentle with you than the vaped DMT
is and that’s what they’ve discovered in
the Amazon by making the DMT in the
leaves of the shekinah plant orally
active if you take if you made a tea out
of hundreds of Shakuni leaves and drank
all of it yes you’d be drinking a lot of
DMT but it would have no effect on you
because there’s an enzyme in the gut
mono a mean oxidase switches off DMT on
contact what you need to make it orally
active is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor
and that is found in the ayahuasca vine
so go figure how that was done by trial
and error
neither the vine nor the leaf are
psychoactive on their own but bring them
together and you get an orally active
brew that sends you on a journey that is
in some ways similar to the DMT journey
and in some ways radically different
because the the the mother vine
ayahuasca is also bringing something
incredibly important to the experience
but the most important thing is that it
unfolds over four or five hours it
unfolds more slowly more gently it’s
very organic you have you have the
opportunity to really think about what
you’re experiencing and to remember it
and to integrate it and you emerge you
emerge from the journey with profound
teachings that it then becomes your next
project is to integrate those teachings
into into your daily life well I would
call this science in the Amazon to to
put these two plants together which
don’t work on their own but only work in
combination and to create this brew
which is honestly changing the world all
over the world today the ayahuasca the
the ayahuasca experience is no longer
limited to the Amazon jungle it’s come
out of the rainforest it’s spread all
around the world you can drink ayahuasca
in Tokyo or London or New York or
Chicago or wherever you happen to be you
can drink it in Cairo
you can you can drink it in Istanbul you
know it’s it’s available everywhere
under the radar illegal but available
because there’s something in it that
calls to people that people realize
there’s an important experience
that they have been denied by their
societies which they need to have and in
this sense the teacher plant ayahuasca
the teacher brew ayahuasca which is as I
said a mixture of two plants is having
an impact all around the world at the
moment and I would say again we’re
looking at a legacy here this is
knowledge from a lost civilization of
prehistoric antiquity and it’s not by
the way the only evidence of science in
the Amazon there’s a great more mmm-hmm
yeah indeed I mean it’s anyone who
explores this Avenue of thought I think
will be very surprised at how much
information there is around this plant
and the usage of it you know how far it
goes back and how much it can change
your life but moving forward and I just
want to remind everyone we’re about an
hour deep we have about 30 minutes left
with grams so if you want to ask your
question we’re taking text questions you
can join the discord server you’ll see
that link at the bottom of your screen
and and Graham I do have some questions
here for you have one more of my own
okay so you know something that I
noticed Graham in your work and I’ve
been reading your work for more than
five years is that there seems to be you
know between your fiction and nonfiction
because you’re you write in both of
these styles and it seems if I could
just jump in okay yes I do write novels
but almost nobody reads them they are
published
I’ve written a series of three novels
about the Spanish conquest of Mexico
called war God and I’ve written the
first of two novels of a time slit novel
called entangled and for me this is a
it’s a fascinating writing exercise my
my main writing project is my nonfiction
work books like fingerprints of the gods
books like magicians of the gods and my
latest book America before these are all
non-fiction factual books but as a
writer I found it challenging and
interesting to also dabble in fiction on
the side because for example when I came
to tell the story of the Spanish
conquest of Mexico in my war god series
it was very important for me to get
inside the heads of those real
historical character
and I found that in writing in that way
I was able to understand more about the
historical events than if I’d approached
them solely as a nonfiction writer but I
am fundamentally a writer of factual
non-fiction books and I’m just blessed
that I’ve had the opportunity from time
to time to write some novels as well I
mean it near the end grandma of the of
America before that you tie in ESP and
the possible use of telekinesis to move
around these these large blocks and what
I noticed in your in your fiction work
is it does get you know somewhat sci-fi
in in your book so I’m just I’m
wondering you know if there’s something
you might be holding back you know from
obviously since I’ve been since I’ve
been on a kind of quest for a lost
civilization of prehistoric antiquity
for more than 25 years now I have I have
developed some ideas and some notion of
of what the what the character of that
civilization was and as I said earlier I
think it was very different from our own
I think it did enshrine the use of
psychedelics sort of the teacher plants
as a fundamental part of the character
of that civilization but I also think it
did tech it did technology in a very
different way from the way we do it and
I’ve cut I’ve received a lot of sneering
and dismissive criticism from the
mainstream for even contemplating that
there may be innate and untapped human
abilities which we in modern society are
not using but which ancient
civilizations and particularly the lost
civilization that I address myself to
had mastered fully we have gone down a
particular technological Road with
modern industrial civilization and
that’s what I call the Road of leverage
and mechanical advantage if we want to
get stuff done
we invent machines to do it on our
behalf we divest the direct manipulation
of matter to mechanical devices and
we’re very very good at that particular
kind of tech
of developing and deploying mechanical
devices and we’re we’re so confident of
their utility and so satisfied with what
they do for us that we invest all our
efforts and ingenuity and intelligence
in making ever better more sophisticated
cleverer machines and there’s there’s
nothing wrong with that but I would
suggest that in the process because we
have become we have come to rely on
machinery as the intervention between us
and the world of matter we may have
allowed other innate faculties of the
human creature to lapse or to go dormant
and I although I will be despised for
saying this and although there will be
many of a materialist frame of mind who
will simply mock me without considering
further for saying this I think that
powers such as telepathy touches such as
telekinesis which we have much anecdotal
evidence of today and which are utterly
despised and rejected by the mainstream
I think they’re part of the human legacy
too just as just as we have the ability
to turn our brains to making very clever
machines to manipulate matter so it may
also have been in the past that we were
able to manipulate matter directly
through the power of the mind and as I
say this I can just see the sneering and
rejecting comments that come up but
these are matters that we should
investigate and where you have for
example the the Institute of noetic
science is looking into issues like this
in a serious way Graham we lost you
there for a second I think you might be
covering your microphone okay you’re
back I’m just saying that rather than
reject and despise the notion that human
beings may have psychic powers may have
telepathic powers may have the ability
to manipulate matter as in telekinesis
through the power of the mind we should
we should look more seriously into that
rather than just automatically knee-jerk
rejecting it and my suggestion is that
the lost civilization I’m interested in
had amplified those kind of powers to a
high degree so that
those who were confronted by them would
almost feel they were confronted by
magic but it’s not magic it’s an innate
human faculty that unfortunately in the
modern world we have allowed to lapse
mm-hmm Oh Graham we’ve got we’ve got a
bunch of questions that I want to get to
I promised everyone listening that we
would get to these questions so this one
the first one comes from Enki he asks or
he or she asks in your research did you
come across the haplogroup X to a
subject and if you did what were your
thoughts group XTA to be honest is
something I don’t know that much about
okay fair enough
moving forward Starchild asks hello mr.
Hancock
I am Starchild the comic-book hero you
met in Seattle could you talk about the
significance of the pinecone in ancient
history slash American history well the
argument is that the the pinecone
represents the pineal gland which is
regarded as the third eye in many
different cultures around the world the
third eye which gives us a sixth sense
if you were that integrates us with the
universe beyond this universe and and
it’s interesting that that very
substance
dimethyltryptamine DMT that is
fundamental to the ayahuasca experience
is a natural brain hormone all human
beings have DMT usually in sub
psychedelic quantities in their bodies
and while it would be premature to claim
that DMT is actually made in the pineal
gland there’s evidence that it’s that
lungs also play a part in the generation
of DMT in the human body it’s certainly
found in the pineal gland and the
suggestion is that the pinecone
represents this power of insight into
realms beyond this realm hmm thank you
thanks Graham for answering that Sean
asked what are your thoughts on the work
at structure in Mauritania
rishaad structure is is a structure of
circular rings in West Africa in
Mauritania it’s a very interesting
structure there’s been a lot of good
material put out about this on the
internet in in recent months pay tribute
tour to a YouTube channel called bright
insight who I think were the first to
really draw attention to the research
structure what’s interesting about it
when you view it from from aerial
imagery is the this series of circular
concentric rings which of course are
exactly how Plato described the lost
city of Atlantis and this is why the
site has attracted so much attention I
think the site is interesting I think
the evidence that has been put forward
for it is at least justifies a thorough
excavation and investigation of that
site the very first thing we have to do
is to rule out weird geology geology is
an amazing thing you know the the
Earth’s natural features often have a
way of presenting themselves as though
they are man-made when they are not so
we need to be sure that that’s not the
case with the Rochette structure and
we’ll only be sure of that with boots on
the ground and an excavation if it is
not weird geology if it is archaeology
and we’re not there yet but if it is our
key ology then it has the potential to
rewrite human history it’s a fascinating
fascinating site and I’m certainly
keeping an eye on it and seeing what’s
developing there ok addy Craig asks hi
Graham are you familiar with the work of
Chan Thomas specifically the Adam and
Eve story yeah people keep kept drawing
this to my attention while I’ve been on
the road in America no the answer is I’m
not familiar with that I’m only one
person and I’m not familiar with
everything I I do I do the best the best
that I can to document what I know but
this Adam and Eve story seems to be a
YouTube channel and perhaps there’s a
book behind it somewhere this is what
this is what I’ve been told is something
that I intend to investigate when I get
home to England after this this long
tour around America okay interesting
someone asks mr. Hancock what kind of
experience have you had with salvia
divinorum if any I’ve had experience
with savvy salvia divinorum I’ve had a
couple of smoked journeys with with
salvia in both of them an intense sense
of disassociation of entering another
realm of sitting on a sort of pinnacle
with vast drops beneath me as though I’m
as I’m sitting on a barstool that’s 20
miles high and I’m looking down at the
earth below most of all the feeling of
disassociation and of being of
encountering a parallel realm that I
don’t fully understand
I’ve only as I say had a couple of
experiences with with salvia it’s
certainly very intriguing I would say
it’s another one of those teacher plants
that that that Nature has kindly gifted
us indeed tripped here’s an interesting
one he asks he or she or they ask what
what do you think about the modern
religions all the modern religions being
connected or interpreted as the same
flood survivors knowledge I think that’s
I think that’s a very reasonable
speculation the the way that the notion
of a global flood is most widely known
still in in the world today is through
the biblical story there which has been
preserved by the Abrahamic religions
Christianity Judaism and Islam the story
of the flood of Noah and and poorly
worked out big big big biblical
chronologies you know used to put that
event at just a few thousand years ago
but there was no global flood a few
thousand years ago but there was a
massive global flood both at the
beginning and at the end of the Younger
Dryas and this is the Cataclysm that I
go into in great depth in America before
between twelve thousand eight hundred
and eleven thousand six hundred years
ago eleven thousand six hundred years
ago you have what geologists call
meltwater pulse one B
it’s when the last of the North American
and European ice caps just collapse into
the sea and massively raise sea level
and if we’re looking for a moment in
history that can be described as the
global flood it would be then it would
be eleven thousand six hundred years ago
it would be meltwater pulse one B and
it’s not an accident that eleven
thousand six hundred years ago is
exactly the date that Plato gives us for
the destruction and submergence of the
lost civilization of Atlantis Plato is
often accused of making Atlantis up by
archaeologists they say he fabricated
fabricated the whole story for a
political motive Plato is the earliest
surviving source of the Atlantis
tradition but if you go into the
dialogues of Timaeus and Critias and the
back story you’ll find that Plato is
telling us that Atlantis was destroyed
and submerged by flood eleven thousand
six hundred years ago from our time a
date that we would call 9600 BC which
was 9,000 years before the time of the
Greek lawmaker Solon who visited Egypt
in 600 BC and first received the story
of Atlantis which was then passed down
in the family line to Plato so if Plato
made the whole thing up he was
astonishingly on the money with the
latest geological information about
massive sea level rise eleven thousand
six hundred years ago and I think that
there the more than 2,000 so-called
flood myths that we find around the
world are all memories of this
cataclysmic event that brought the last
ice age suddenly and dramatically to an
end last one from the audience guys if
if I miss your question I apologize the
remaining that came through mark-ass
grandma have you have you seen the very
unique and widely unknown pyramids ruin
ruins above tonalá Chiapas Mexico no I’m
only one person I stretched myself
pretty thin I’ve seen a lot of the world
I’ve seen some amazing and majestic and
mysterious pyramid sites all around the
world but I haven’t seen those ones they
think you know everything I mean the
earth you’re here I just know a little
and I tried to put it together and to
back it up with evidence yeah I mean
you’ve done that in a mirror
before and I mean it’s it was such a
great read to go through how to had some
help going through it I mean it it’s a
lot of material I was actually in the
jungle and looking through the book so
it was really surprising that you know
you connected these dots about this sort
of migration into North America and and
then also you know this somebody
somebody asked earlier about about
haplogroups and this is this is the
language of genetics okay
I do actually go into genetic issues in
in great detail in America before just
not to bring this up yet start into
haplogroup x2a but what is what what
particularly intrigues me about new
evidence from the science of genetics
and the study of ancient DNA is a very
curious DNA signal that is found only in
two parts of the world one part of the
world is Australasia Papua New Guinea
the Melanesian peoples of Papua New
Guinea and Australian Aborigines and the
other part of the world is right in the
heart of the Amazon jungle where you
this same DNA signal rings out very very
loudly and we know it’s been in the
Amazon jungle from the discovery of
ancient skeletal remains that have been
DNA tested we know it’s been there since
the end of the last ice age is extremely
ancient and it implies that somebody was
capable of crossing the Pacific Ocean
and bringing a reproductively viable
population from Australasia to the
Amazon jungle during the last ice age
this is really intriguing because it
completely contradicts again than the
mainstream view that our ancestors
during the Ice Age were not capable of
crossing a ocean if if they had come by
land you would find that DNA signal in
North America and in Central America as
well
but the fact that you only find it in
South America and in Australasia
indicates that an oceanic voyage of a
reproductively viable population was
undertaken and furthermore it indicates
that that voyage was from Australasia to
South America because the signal is much
stronger in Australasia than it isn’t
South America mm-hmm yeah I mean this is
this question is in my list and it’s
like you’re reading my mind’s amazing so
so there was a the DNA signal can you be
a little bit more precise what does the
signal mean what does it tell people
well what it tells what it tells people
again it’s this issue of a of a legacy
and in this case a very specific genetic
legacy very a very specific cluster of
DNA that is only found in Australasia
and in the Amazon jungle the the the you
should find it all the way through the
Americas if the the traditional story of
the peopling of the Americas were
correct and the traditional story of the
peopling of the Americas is that it all
came overland through a lot from Siberia
across the Bering Straits when the
Bering Straits were a land bridge
through an ice-free corridor between the
North American ice caps down into North
America thence onwards into Central
America thence onwards into South
America if that were the only story then
this same very distinctive Australasia
DNA signal would be found all over the
Americas but to find it only in South
America and only amongst certain tribes
in the Amazon jungle is indicative that
it must have resulted from an oceanic
voyage during the Ice Age and not only a
voyage but a voyage of a reproductively
viable population who were settled in
the Amazon and oddly enough the Takano
who are an ayahuasca drinking culture of
the Amazon have an origin myth which
speaks of exactly such a settlement
mission they tell of how their ancestors
in the remotest past were not originally
from the Amazon that they were brought
to the Amazon by a group of
quote-unquote superhumans who included
the daughter of the son who taught them
the use of fire and who taught them
horticulture and the a superhuman
helmsman who steered the serpent shaped
canoe with which their ancestors were
ushered into the Amazon River system and
shown which were the best places for
them to settle and to plant their fields
and to make their villages and to and to
hunt
and then those so-called superhumans
left the ancestors of the Takano there
and they’re still there to this day and
their culture that their descendants are
still there to this day and their
culture revolves around the use of
ayahuasca and they preserve this memory
of having been settled in the Amazon a
very long time ago and on the other side
of the world in in Egypt there’s a very
similar story in the Ed foo building
texts which also speak of that which
speaks specifically of the destruction
of a former civilization of its
survivors and of how they tried to
restart the civilization by wandering
the world and bringing their ideas to
many different cultures around the world
it’s fascinating that there’s this such
a huge tie-in to this Sankar T that I
mean and and also that you know so much
of this history has been erased it’s
it’s as if you know there’s there’s some
sort of I don’t know I hate to point in
the direction of some large massive
conspiracy but maybe even a cover-up of
you know what’s really truly going on
because it seems as if these ancient
civilizations that were probably as
advanced if not more advanced than we
are today they were pointing at some
macro cosmic perspective of the journey
of the soul what’s happening here in the
human experience as we sort of evolve
and grow very much so you know I mean
what is that what is the purpose of life
is there a purpose at all the many
mainstream scientists who are very much
of the materialist frame of mind and who
seek to reduce everything to matter who
even regard consciousness as
quote-unquote an epiphenomenon of brain
activity in other words that there’s a
materialist base to consciousness
individuals like that for example
Professor Richard Dawkins who’s the
author of The Selfish Gene and of and of
The God Delusion
they will seek to persuade us that there
is no meaning or purpose to human life
at all
that we are simply accidents of biology
and chemistry that it’s entirely random
and that there is no
there’s no purpose whatsoever and you
know they could be right I I can’t prove
them wrong but my strong gut instinct
and the legacy that we’ve received from
many ancient civilizations see like the
ancient Egyptians they they put their
best minds to work for thousands of
years on what happens to us when we die
our our civilization tries to avoid that
Richard Dawkins and his like will tell
you that nothing happens to us when we
die we’re just gone and that’s the end
of an heir story but the vast testimony
of the ancient world is that we are in
can’t we are souls incarnated in these
material bodies and that we’re here to
learn and to grow and to develop if
that’s the case then our mission here on
earth is not simply to accumulate
material goods not simply to increase
our wealth not simply to compete with
and and out-compete others not to define
ourselves in terms of what we own but to
define ourselves in terms of who we are
and of what we do with this life and
with this what is regarded in the eighth
by the ancients as this incredible
opportunity to have been born in a human
body there are certain experiences at
this level of vibration that can only be
had at this level of vibration where
there are direct physical consequences
and once you start taking all of this on
board and open yourself to the
possibility that our life on Earth may
be a theater of experience that our
particular purpose here is to learn and
to grow and to develop and to manifest
love rather than hatred and fear and
suspicion then you begin to realize that
the whole ethic of the modern world may
be misleading us may be taking us down a
track that isn’t helpful to us
that Professor Richard Dawkins when the
time comes
may find himself confronted by an
extraordinary mystery that he’s
completely unprepared for because his
whole life experience has persuaded him
that there’s no meaning to life may
suddenly find himself having to account
for every second of the life that he has
that he has lived if that were the case
and the testimony of the ancients is
that it
is the case then perhaps we would be
living life in a different way on this
planet we would not be defining our
worth in terms of our economic value in
terms of how much we earn or what kind
of motorcar we own or what sort of
washing machine we own the tendency of
the modern world is to persuade us to
define ourselves purely in those
material terms if there’s so much more
to life than that if we’re really here
to learn and to grow and develop
then those material things well they
have their place but fundamentally if we
focus too much upon them they’re gonna
get in the way of our journey and
they’re going to prevent us from doing
what we came here to do so that we have
to keep on coming back and doing it
again and again and again until we get
the lesson and that’s where you where
you begin to realize that ancient
teachings such as Gnosticism which which
argue that that there are entities on
this planet that the whole purpose of
which is to mislead us and to divert us
from our true course the Gnostics called
them the archons who served the Demiurge
who’s whose project is to snuff out the
divine spark in inhumanity you begin to
realize that that maybe maybe possible
and when we look around the modern world
we can see those archons at work and we
can see them at work in the advertising
industry seeking to persuade us that the
whole purpose of our lives is how much
material stuff we can accumulate and
seeking us to pursue aid us to
congratulate ourselves because we have
more material stuff than our neighbour
what a trivial waste of the glorious
experience of life on this majestic
beautiful garden of a planet what a
waste we are being seduced into wasting
the opportunities we’ve been given and
the ancients would say we are being
seduced by negative entities such as the
archons who are jealous of the divine
spark within us and wished to shut it
down and my goodness unfortunately
they’re doing a very good job but on the
other side they are shutting down the
divine spark in humanity you see it
happening all around the world the
mainstream religions are implicated in
this as well it’s not just commerce but
on the other side of the story you have
an awakening and I’m aware of this
awakening taking place particularly
amongst the younger
who I have the privilege of meeting very
often at the events and talks that I
give and awakening a refusal to put up
with the any longer a refusal
to accept voices of authority that tell
us what to think and a willingness to
think for ourselves this is growing in
the world it’s a small flame right now
and the archons the iconic forces are
seeking in every possible way to shut it
down but people are waking up they are
resisting this and at the leading edge
of this resistance and again the
mainstream would seek to present this as
trivial whereas in fact it’s incredibly
important at the leading edge of this
resistance is our relationship with
plants that alter consciousness you know
with plants and fungi that alter
consciousness proves for too long we
just bought into the mainstream
narrative that these teacher plants are
negative and unhelpful but people are
finding out for themselves that
ayahuasca psilocybin peyote a San Pedro
and other other teacher plants and fungi
are incredibly positive and very helpful
for our personal development and that’s
why I celebrate what’s happening in
America where there has been this
overarching governmental control of the
war on drugs and which young people in
state after state are rejecting and
turning over and saying we will not
accept what these Authority the false
lies that these authority figures give
to us we will not accept them any longer
and the latest development of that is
the decriminalization of psilocybin in
Denver which resulted from from a
citizen’s initiative III it’s
encouraging to me when I see citizens
taking power into their own hands and
refusing to be told what to think and
what to do with their own bodies and
with their own consciousness by some you
know governmental authority they
have no right to tell us what to think
and what to do with our own bodies and
our own consciousness and that that’s
reassertion of individual sovereignty
over consciousness is a very healthy
development we’re seeing it happening
state-by-state in America with the the
growing legalization movement for
Cannabis all of the arguments from
making cannabis illegal are based on
lies and falsehoods that were
deliberately spread to mislead the
population and I’m encouraged in America
that step-by-step state-by-state people
are taking the matter into their own
hands sticking one finger up to
government and saying what we do with
our bodies and our consciousness while
we do no harm to others is entirely our
business this is a hugely important
development in the human story and I’m
pleased that the people of America are
at the spearhead of this change even
though the government the federal
government America is still trying to
keep it suppressed hmm so it’s so
profound grandma you’re such a wonderful
guest to have on because we touch on so
much of this and it’s it’s so profound
to hear you speak because it’s it’s
poetic the way you put this I mean
there’s nothing better than a Graham
Hancock rant it’s perfect
yes and and Graham I mean we want you to
be healthy we want you to take care of
yourself so you know we’re so where are
you now you’re in Chicago and in Chicago
flying – flying to Phoenix tomorrow for
a series of events that I have in Sedona
I’m giving a big talk in Sedona
on the 16th about America before the
details are up on my website Graham
Hancock comm go to the talks and events
page and you’ll see all my events both
the ones that I’ve now completed in
North America and the ones that still
remain after Sedona we’re going to go to
a very amazing place in Utah Boulder
Utah not Boulder Colorado
but Boulder Utah where I’m going to be
giving a seminar a discussion with quite
a small group of people and then onwards
from there to Massachusetts I’m doing an
event up in Massachusetts I’m then going
to be doing a couple of events in New
York and then finally back to back to
the west coast
and before returning to England on I
think the fourth of June so all the
details are up there on the talks and
events page
my website and I hope people will will
join I’ve had some amazing events in
America great audiences wonderful
questions and a lot of love and support
which makes me which makes me feel very
grateful because I have been a
controversial figure I have taken a lot
of flack from the archaeologists and
their buddies in the media but I’m also
aware that I am given a lot of love and
a lot of support by my readers and I’m
enormous ly grateful for that and I need
to say this as a writer I would be
nowhere without my readers writing has
no impact unless it’s read and unless
those readers then take the ideas out
there and work with them themselves and
do their own thing with them and I’m
pleased to say that seems to be what’s
happening with my work and I I’m just
grateful gratitude to my readers indeed
indeed and I mean I think you mentioned
I’m wrapping this up but in I think you
mentioned that some of your like after
after lecture signings are taking up to
seven hours and you stay with your
readers to make sure that every single
one of them gets a chance to you know
get your signature maybe even shake your
hand
absolutely and take and take photographs
I I still don’t understand why anybody
would want to take a photograph with
this old man but I’m very willing to
stand up and take photographs this is my
opportunity to give back I owe
everything to my readers I will never
leave an event until the last of my
readers and the last of those attending
the event have left I will always stay
there it’s run me down I’ve got I’ve got
very exhausted physically it’s very
demanding but emotionally it’s very
satisfying to be able to it makes it
real for me
to talk to talk to those who read my
work to spend time with them to honor
them and to respect them and and I
commit to always doing that because I
always have to keep this in perspective
I’m just a writer the writing doesn’t
matter unless it’s read and unless those
readers then take action and talk to
others about what they’ve what they’ve
read in my books I owe everything to my
readers and and I want to give back and
that’s what I’m here to do indeed indeed
my friend thank you so much Graham the
guys the book is called America before
Graham Hancock is my guest
America before the key to Earth’s
lost civilization it’s on shelves you
can go and get the book I highly
recommend this I recommend reading it
more than once there’s a lot of
information here if you enjoyed this
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would be great otherwise Graham any
closing statements here man I think I
think the only closing statement I have
is to say this life is a mystery we are
immersed in a mystery we live in an
enchanted realm let’s remember that the
enchantment and the mystery and the
magic that’s what it’s all about it’s
not about material possessions and
wealth and power it’s about recognising
the magic of being alive at all and of
having this opportunity to live however
many years we give it in a human body
with the capacity to learn and to grow
and to develop indeed Graham thank you
so much so much for your time my friend
guys we’re gonna get out of here you
we’re back on Thursday this week with
our guest Kostas danzo’s and here we go
see you later this week
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