Transcript for Episode 5 – Dr. Roger Nelson – Global Consciousness Project

if we can really understand what dr.

Nelson is telling us I think that this

episode would have delivered the message

that mitosis but due to sound

difficulties and everything involved

with reconstructing the audio I really

did we did have some issues and some

problems with that so hopefully you guys

enjoy what we’ve done here and dr.

Nelson was very gracious at this time

and this was a really fun episode to do

so thank you and enjoy this one dr.

Roger Nelson is the director of the

global consciousness project an

international multilateral collaboration

founded in 1997 to study collective

consciousness from 1980 to 2000 – he was

the coordinator of research at Princeton

in engineering anomalies research

laboratory at Princeton University his

professional focus is the study of

consciousness and intention and the role

of the mind in the physical world his

work integrate science spirituality and

includes research that is directly

focused on numinous communal experiences

Roger welcome to the human experience

and honored to have you here thank you

very much the human experience is where

it’s where it’s really at right yeah

that’s that’s what we try to do here

anyway I think that I’ve been following

the global consciousness dot for for a

while and I think it’s really

interesting what you guys are doing but

let’s let’s start with you know you how

did you how did you get into this how I

mean where did you how did you decide to

follow you know consciousness and how it

affects our lives I think it’s really

probably best regarded as it kind of as

a series of what some people call

coincidences or and others call

synchronicities I’ve been lucky to to be

able to work that questions and issues

and tasks that I find personally very

interesting which means I’ve never had

to work they say yeah I started out as a

teenager looking for books on martial

arts but it was in Nebraska where there

were no books on martial arts but I

found one on yoga and that got me

started it was many years before I

really got into the research that I’m

now doing but I have to say I think

there’s a kind of a series of meaningful

meetings and serendipitous occasions

that led me to be engaged in what I

personally think is about the most

interesting kind of work you can imagine

I am a conventionally trained

psychologist with its specializations

and so neural physiology and perception

and that sort of thing but yeah I don’t

want to demean or denigrate that stuff

but it’s no longer interesting to me

because I think human consciousness has

so much that we don’t understand and so

much that’s important for us to

understand that it’s nice to be able to

work at the edges of what we know huh

very very interesting so I mean just

looking at your your sort of your page

or landing page the behavior of our

network of random sources is correlated

with interconnected human consciousness

on a global scale what is this what does

this mean so we have we have you have

these random event sort of the random

number generators sort of all over the

planet and I mean how do they how do

they work well I can I should give you a

brief description of how the physical

random number generator works but

they’re probably the more important

thing is what it means to have

interconnected consciousness okay

start with the the physical devices

they’re baked they’re electronic and

they’re based on a quantum process this

called tunneling tunneling amounts to

electrons passing through barriers that

they’re not expected to they’re kind of

what we do is set it up things like

diodes and transistors which are

switches that allow the electrons to

flow one direction we set it up with the

reverse bias on the and the current flow

in other words we set it up so there’s

pressure against the barrier where the

electrons should not be able to flow

we’re trying to send them backwards

through this Junction that allows them

to go only forward and what happens is

that by some process that’s called

tunneling electron tunneling a few of

them wind up on the other side of the

barrier and a fashion is completely

unpredictable and that provides us with

a tiny voltage that we amplify and

sample and when we discover that tiny

voltage is a little higher meaning more

electrons penetrated we call that a 1

and if it’s lower we call it a zero and

that produces ultimately of quite fast

relative to how I’m describing it that

produces a completely unpredictable

sequence of ones and zeros and we gather

those in batches of in the global

consciousness project we gather them in

batches of 200 as if you were throwing

coins 200 at a time and Counting how

many heads there are so we write down in

the computer files the sum of the 200

bits that are gathered every second at

each of the nodes all around the world

so you’re basically flipping at a went

on an elemental level it sounds like

that’s right the coin is being flipped

on a completely unpredictable elemental

level and what computer scientists refer

to in

the result of this quantum coin flip is

a bit it’s either a 1 or a 0 and there

every call that everything the whole

system is designed so that there will be

50/50 ones and zeroes exactly half on

average so there’s a nice distribution

and we try to push that distribution in

the laboratory experiments and in the

global consciousness experiment we are

actually asking the question if just

plain consciousness when it’s integrated

coherent when large numbers of people

are sharing a moment in history I’m an

emotional event see if you present this

information with through with a dot and

the dog has different colors ok and it

measures the coherence in so so people

are say that people are thinking or

feeling does it measure what they’re

like how they’re feeling if it is

connected in some way is that is that a

good question no I mean in the physical

sense there’s no connection that anybody

can just describe well we have is a

correlation between moments historically

important moments where a lot of people

are paying attention and changes in the

data in the in the network of you know

200 bit samples that were taking from

this random data stream this is a

correlation between the emotion on the

part of the large numbers of humans in a

coherent state sharing their reactions

the correlation between that and some

changes in our data which happened also

there’d be correlations between these

the behavior of devices that are

separated by thousands of miles so

you’ve seen there’s some kind of

correlation trends personally almost

between the collective intention of all

this emotional or whatever consciousness

in output there is going to have an

effect on this diode

that’s the prediction that we make and

that’s and the evidence suggests that

that is indeed happening well you think

about it in very personal very small

scale terms if you meet somebody who is

just you might say your soul mate and

you have an immediate kind of connection

it doesn’t take long before you’ve got

what a match to kind of coherent

resonant connection and we call that

love so people fall in love and they

create something new which is a kind of

combination the two people and I think

what we’re seeing in the in you know the

mass consciousness in the world is

something similar that but on a grand

scale where millions of people are are

participating in a kind of connection

driven by something from outside like an

emergency or tragedy or a giant

celebration they’re driven to share in a

synchronized way the same kinds of

emotions so it’s like we all fall in

love with with each other without

knowing that it’s completely unplanned

well so we are sort of all connected is

what we are Westham is representing

let’s go let’s go back to what the

random event generators look like are

they just computers or their little

boxes or how does that work yeah they’re

little boxes that are connected to

computers that are oh they in the old

days I don’t know if people still say

this it’s smaller than a pack of

cigarettes sometimes I’m pretty much

happier than a breadbox a breadbox

unless that’s weak in tiny lobes so no

it’s about two inches one of them that

we use a lot is two inches square and

about five eighths of an inch thick it

connects through a serial port to a

computer that runs special software

custom software that just collects the

data that we’re the bits that we were

talking about forms them into trials of

and writes the sum of 200 bits every

second to a computer file that computer

is connected to the Internet and every

five minutes after it’s gathered a batch

of five minutes worth of data it sends a

packet those data to Princeton where

they gets recorded in or archived on our

main you know server and the data then

from all of the we call them eggs by the

way Hey it’s leftover from my son

calling this network we’re building a

kind of electoral diagram like a EEG for

the earth all right yeah guy yet instead

of a human we called an electric diagram

and that acronym is eg G right well I

mean I may accidentally say egg in any

case all the devices report their data

from wherever in the world and it’s time

synchronized so the same second the data

from the same second are lined up in the

archive of data so we can pull out data

anytime and it distributed the project

to compare with what’s going on in the

world without without getting too messy

on the science side of things how did

you guys go about jumping from the

conception of this or how you had the

initial conception of this idea and then

breaking it down to actually involve the

diodes or is that kind of just a

standard for random generation how did

this whole process start as far as

getting to the point is right now from

its conception if you’re talking about

the random number generators that’s a

fairly important technology and computer

science and lots of applications are in

in cryptography or in you know

cryptographic encoding of material so

nobody can read it that depends on

having true random

curved random hips great sequences

issues for a lot of other I’m getting

back from itself

yeah the connections a bit choppy let’s

just we’ll move through it and I’ll edit

out whatever I can or all cleaned up so

much done Kent okay so these random

number generators are used also in like

if you wanted to test the then test a

car frame yeah this is actually a true

application you even might want and you

know don’t want to put wheels on it and

a motor in it and drive it around what

you want to do is put it in a shaker

that has kind of random shaking so they

use ready enough for all kinds of things

like that and it’s used for a lot of

purposes in science and we just use it

because we believe and we’re not with at

Princeton we’re not the first to do this

kind of thing but for any generation

well you know we set a standard for

engineering approach to it yeah we so we

ask whether people intentionally can

change the behavior of a random number

generator reasonably wanted to use a

random number generator was because it

is yes by definition something whose

future isn’t known the future is simply

not predictable or not known and that

means it could be changed from what it

might have been does that make sense yes

yeah so the since we’re dealing with

something subtle the interaction of

human consciousness with physical

systems this seemed like a very good way

of approaching the problem we set up

situations where this unpredictable

sequence was on full unrolling in time

and ask people to change the expected

average from to something a little bit

different to higher numbers or lower

numbers so honey how many trials have

you guys actually conducted like with

these experiments that you guys are


if we’re talking about the intention

experiments I guess it would be in many

millions in in the global consciousness

project which is a little different

because it doesn’t have somebody trying

to change the thing address this

correlation with big events in the world

there are I think now something like 30

gigabytes of data which is 200 bits

every second for across like 50 or 60

and nodes for 15 years I mean how many

gigabytes it’s like yeah I guess we can

think of it it’s like 30 billion 200 bit

trials time so it’s 30 billion times 200

that’s a lot of trials you might say so

I mean Princeton is it seems like a

pretty prestigious place to to do this

stuff at I guess you were working with

the anomaly’s research pair what were

you what were you guys doing over there

you guys were doing the remote

perception research we were doing

basically three things the remote

perception research which we referred to

some you often as Precog and it remote

perception because we actually set it up

so the target that a person was trying

to the sky the tribe wasn’t even picked

yet but that’s a little bit of detail so

remote viewing the yeah the remote is

same as what people refer to as a remote

viewing basically and we just can’t

focused a lot of attention on doing it

pre cognitively so that didn’t work

oh yeah surprising so – you were able to

see you were able to assign these random

kind of people – how do I even explain

as I were you I can sorry you have a

volunteer generally speaking there are

people who are interested so they’re not

just completely random people

a volunteer comes in and says I’d like

to try the experiment your remote

perception experiment and we say okay

you can sit down in this room and

describe what you envision there’s a

little bit more lead up to it than that

relax and just allow yourself to

envision where this other person it’s

somebody that is known but we tried both

with known partners and not known so you

didn’t try to envision where that person

is tomorrow at 2:00 o’clock p.m. and so

just lean back relax and describe that

and and then after you’ve done that make

some sketches talk into a tape recorder

or whatever answer this series of 30 yes

or no questions and the question would

be something like is it outside is it


are there sharp corners there people and

and so on and we use the answers to

that’s what we call binary descriptor

list to calculate a score or against

what a random score would be and we were

able to show that people produce much

better descriptions and including in

this descriptor list then they should be

able to write something so did you get

any kind of feedback from Princeton like

how did they take to all this stuff I

mean as far as coming from and they say

and you hear about all the different

right it’s a it’s an interesting

question and the truth is that there was

a kind of a variety of responses there

were people who thought it was a

terrible thing that the university would

allow such work to be done on the

premises and it was blemishing the name

and so forth and there other people are


Bravo it’s nice to push the envelope and

it’s a and I regarded Princeton

University as being you know a place

where academic freedom and you know a

kind of respect for the integrity of

people or doing research and so forth

and that that was a prominent part of

the place and it was I mean we we had we

had to fend off some attack from from

critics and naysayers but the the guy

who actually set this up and gets a

tremendous amount of credit for putting

what I personally think was way too much

of his valuable time into defending

against those kinds of attack so in

other words we it was there was some of

each and I would like to add one note to

that it turns out that the the higher

the the level of standing you might say

people like Nobel Prize winners were

likely to come in and say that’s pretty

interesting that’s more where as kind of

run-of-the-mill guys that are trying to

be fair you know there is there’s a guy

named Milton Rothman he wrote wrote an

article in this skeptical Inquirer and

he said that the pair the parents too

was and it considered an embarrassment

to science I mean that’s the I couldn’t

I couldn’t believe that he said that but

it is I mean I guess it is this

skeptical inquirer so look dr. Nelson

this is the the the this goes to an

interesting point is you’ve seen this

firsthand is where you have the

old-school materialist Sciences butting

heads with the emerging informations

coming out of quantum physics that says

that there’s you know likely more to

reality on a hyperdimensional level and

how do you see this kind of amalgamation

of the hard and now it seems like almost

spiritual aspects to quantum physics now

that they’re gonna converge you know

with the data that you guys are even put

forth I think there is a there’s a clear

movement and the

direction of who integrating across

disciplines and across territories that

used to be forbidden in other words

there are more people now and the bright

ones they’re really good ones are the

ones that are you know leading the pack

anyway they’re the ones that are opening

up or I think then the pedestrian people

over I don’t want to be mean but the

truth is that the people with really a

creative imagination can see first that

if we’re not destroying science than

when it’s not an embarrassment to any

institution to allow creative well-done

scientific research in an area that

hasn’t been done before very well it’s

not an embarrassment instead it’s a

credit to an institution and I think you

know honestly I think probably more

people are looking at it that way now

and people like what was his name

Rothman Milton like Milton Rothman yeah

I don’t know him or or his work but it’s

I think he’s talking about his own

feelings not about a fact in the in a

gritty institution like Princeton

University so so just some people that

would I mean it did receive a lot of

criticism it like it is called

pseudoscience I mean I don’t want to

spend too much time like criticizing it

but there was you know there was a lot

of criticism that was going towards the

the pair is that why it closed is that

why you moved over to the the GCP or no

no I retired in 2002 but I had started

the GCP in 1997 so and I like doing it

so I kept on doing that my wife says

you’re not retired because there’s a

fair amount of interest in in this

material but yeah there was there there

has been and if you look in certain

places like skeptical inquirer you’re

going to find nothing but negativity

right and if

at Wikipedia and freeze on anything

related anomalies research

parapsychology psychic research

near-death experiences any of that stuff

that’s at the edge they there is a

dedicated cadre of editors so-called

who know it’s all who dedicate their

lives and they’re apparently

considerable amount of free time to

trashing anything that gets written

about people or projects in these what

they think of as fringe areas I think

we’ll see and you know in another five

or ten years or maybe it’ll be fifty

years but we’ll see that it’ll shift

it’s sorry some kind of a noticeable

shift will definitely occurring it seems

I think so it but it’s real slow when

you have people with a very strong

commitment to a point of view it’s

really hard to change them

so there are aphorisms about that dr.

Nelson I have I have to ask you you know

another another researcher out in

Cambridge Rupert Sheldrake and his work

with Norfolk residents concepts of you

guys collaborate at all with the global

consciousness project or how does how do

you feel that if you are familiar with

those works I am yeah how does this fit

into a bigger picture because it seems

like these are almost the this melting

pot of the two ideas is just astounding

rooper is a friend of mine so you have

to take that into consideration but I I

have I I really I think he’s one of the

most creative and productive and

scientist researchers on the planet yeah

he gets a lot of criticism too but he

doesn’t back off from what he thinks is

a is the right way to go and no we

haven’t done what you’ve much normally

called collaboration but we talk about

and this the kinds of things that

interest us both and there’s a

tremendous amount of parallel I a long

time ago I said Rupert yeah I think I

kind of think we need something like

morphic resonance to explain this like

thinner connection that’s happening at

an unconscious level among humans and

and he said well I’m not sure I see a

biological imperative

which add I was a really cool answer but

I suspect you might say well maybe there

may were beginning to see a biological

imperative because I think at some level

we have recognized that what’s happening

on this planet is being pushed in

certain directions by human beings

whether the climate deniers wish to

believe it or not we have a tremendous

influence and and not only I have to say

a great part of it is destructive and so

we really need we have a biological

imperative if we want to survive and

have any elephants left on the planet in

you know in the in the near future we

have to come to kind of you know an

ability to respect each other and

collaborate rather than try to steal

everybody’s stuff well even from like a

development or you know inheritance type

of aspect you see books like the 99 to

100 monkey and these different effects

are being happened that are that are

occurring on non-physical reality that

seems like and there seems to be some

kind of purpose for this linkage on

perhaps an unconscious level in the logo

so to speak and we’re seeing in these

biological models with these these

monkeys that were transferring skills

from different islands after a certain

amount of resident monkey yeah I yeah I

hate to say this but there’s there

that’s been criticized to that research

nevertheless it’s a trick terrific

metaphor and it may be true and the but

the more basic truth that you speak is


there is a change in what’s happening on

this planet talk about some of the Paris

psychological exercises that you guys

were conducting I think that would be

interesting like telekinesis and like

kind of changing stuff with your mind

which which sounds intriguing to me yeah

you have a specific question I just want

me to go I I would just would like to

know like what do you guys were doing

over at you know pair I guess it was we

that was part of pear pears research

right yes the part the first major

experiment was we won we called an RTG

experiment it’s insane it uses a random

number generator we call it a random

event generator it basically the

experiment for an individual was to sit

down with the machine on the table no

wires or any other kind of connections

and numbers come up and which were

numbers that were sums of two hundred

bits in other words numbers like 100 107

94 101 and so forth with an instruction

to try to get more high numbers in one

condition or low numbers in a different

condition and then in a third condition

they should let the machine do what it

does normally we call that high low and

baseline and over years and years

probably I think 12 years was the last

summary paper we found we you know

gathered strong evidence in statistical

terms that well it was not a large

effect people could do this and

completely control they can experiment

and environment so in other words the

intentions that people had registered

somehow in the data produced by these

random number devices there was a

connection between the mind and the

material the mind and the machine and it

was like I said it was

a small effect so small that I’d like to

make sure people know that we don’t

expect it anytime soon to be using it

for changing your television channel

open your garage doors yeah until a

little more about what what you guys

would consider just statistically

significant as far as just like a

certain p-value or what was the actual

and bio stats behind it well there is a

kind of widely accepted so-called

statistical significant p-value which is

0.05 now there’s five-and-twenty but our

experiment was designed more by doing

more so we aggregated many dozens and

altom utley hundreds of replications of

a basic permit some of them would have a

significant deviation some of them would

not some one would go backwards but the

bottom line was an accumulation at

something on the order of depending on

which subset you’re looking at anywhere

from three or four Sigma meaning

probabilities like one in 10,000 up to

10 to the minus 10 which is billion won

in the billion probability that would be

happening by chance so in other words

I’m not really trying to you know claim

claim significance on the basis of one

experiment but on a long series of

repetitions of the same experiment with

modifications to learn more about things

like distance whether people were doing

it remotely or in the same room with the

machine gender whether women do it

better than men and groups whether two

could do it better than one and a lot of

other questions like that some physical

some psychological it turns out the

physical things don’t matter much but if

a psychological things do and you know

so I’m you know it’s a long longer

answer to the question well how did we

decide on significance it’s basically

we’re trying to learn something

then just prove something we didn’t

wanted to yeah there is there was an

article that while I was doing the

research for this conversation that I

found it was conducted through

Washington State University where they

had they had two people sitting in

different rooms one of them was wearing

like a sort of helmet with wires in it

and the other person was using a remote

control to play a video game one person

the other person in the other room was

watching the video game take place the

other person was in the other room with

watching nothing he just had the kind of

controller and so the two people the the

person watching the game was supposed to

send the other person a sort of mental

intention thought of what to do next in

the game and it kind of proved it kind

of proved that there was this sort of

morphogenetic field connection some some

sort of something that was happening

between these two people yeah i’m i

think those experiments are brilliant

there’s several different investigations

have been done of that kind of thing and

what it amounts to is is remote

correlation of brain activity and it

it’s been demonstrated and i’d say

something like a half a dozen different

laboratories it’s quite remarkable and

it’s a-you know it’s one of the many

other pieces of evidence that human

consciousness does not live inside the

skull it lives in the world in a larger

world like a receiver for some kind of

transmission well some people would say

it’s a mean that’s a model that you know

it’s it’s a sort of nice description but

it probably isn’t what’s really


probably like for example some of the

more recent sophisticated modeling has

is based on something a little bit like

quantum entanglement where basically

there’s no

Oh separation in the first place of the

of the minds that are involved in an

experiment like that so what they are

doing is always correlated in some sense

and but the experimental situation is

designed to let us see the correlation

is designed in a sense to amplify a

certain aspect of the correlation the so

it becomes visible that’s what we do in

the global consciousness project – I

think people human beings are all over

the world are always interacting at some

very deep level it’s quite profound but

there’s basically very little

synchronization of that most of the time

and consequently it’s not visible

doesn’t have much of a effect but if we

all are you know listening the terrible

news of 9/11 or if we’re all waiting for

midnight five minutes away to lift the

glass or grab our honey and give a hug

you know that that is a that’s a

powerful synchronizer these kinds of

events celebrations and things that

people have is there good good doctrine

what what is considered of this

significant event you know that I know

that um we kind of talked about having

the time wave zero and he was basing off

the II Ching and he was basing off

novelty but what is what is novelty what

is this significant event like what is

the barometer for the specific or what

is the what is what is this you have an

event are you asking how do I choose or

how does the global consciousness choose

an event to analyze yeah and is there

almost like a severity to an event

perhaps on the significance of it does

that get demonstrated within the models

sometimes there’s two or thereabouts the

most important ones are that a very

large number of people be involved be

engaged by whatever the event is and it

can be either by positive kind of event

like New Year’s or the comb mail

in India where 20 million people come to

bathe in the Ganges awful at once or it

can be a tragedy like the bombing of

just a few days ago in Nigeria a suicide

bomber blew himself up with in a class

in a you know an assembly hall with

hundreds of kids around and that killed

maybe 50 or 60 of the kids and and

damaged more that kind of event may not

be known to huge numbers of people in

the world but it becomes known by way of

you know a meeting internet right in the

internet and I think it it causes it

brings a whole lot of people into a

feeling of something like compassion for

and sadness and maybe anger but it

there’s a lot of shared emotion so lots

of people if there’s millions of people

involved I think we’re likely to it’s

something we’re likely to consider to be

a global event and we’ll set a formal

prediction for that event and then do

the analysis later when the data come in

obviously appreciate or is it at the

same time or is it after the fact

sometimes well well for things like

bombings we don’t we can’t make any

prediction about we don’t know anything

about it until it happens and so the the

event is identified and said after the

event occurred but the analysis is done

that is the data are examined only after

that hypothesis test has been registered

in our you know you know what we call

the hypothesis ridges registry is there

is there a sort of trend that you guys

have have noticed that the the GCP is

there more coherence than normal or is

it getting worse or a you know it’s it’s

a I love the question I don’t have a

very good answer for but I I can tell

you a couple of things that you know

from the data one is that there are

long-term trends in the data without

regard to their it to any events and and

I don’t know whether this is a fair

characterization but it could be that

something about the way the world is

that corresponds or maybe are correlates

with long-term trends in a positive

direction or negative direction for

example we started in 1997 and there

were deaths two or three 1998 really I’m

sorry and really not until the beginning

of 1999 with a stable network so there

was a and learn my colleagues did a

comparison or kind of correlation

between presidential approval ratings

and the long-term trends and GCP data so

it was kind of flat and wandering in a

random way for a couple of years and

then around that I was in one for late

2001 and it started a downward trend

that continued for I think um

pretty close to eight years seven or

eight years and then it did a reverse

and started an upward trend and by the

way that downward trend it’s not so easy

to do this kind of analysis that can be

done it was a it had a significant slope

was significantly persistent and steep

yeah it was the trend and these there

may have been things in the world at

first under that then presidential

approval rating happened to be

corresponding that long downward trend

was during one presidential to terms and

then the upswing

was in the first part of well might as

well name names Obama’s presidency but

I’m not saying that we should atribute

it there because another person did a

similar kind of analysis and found that


a DOL the dollar index is a measure of

how the dollar is you know monetarily

ranked against other currencies right

that is a trends which correspond very

nicely also to the global consciousness

project trends so take your pick and now

you know there could be a dozen other

thing or maybe combinations of many

things that could that could be found to

correlate and might actually have

something to do with it I wouldn’t be

yes quite so interested in this work if

I weren’t willing to speculate there is

such a thing as a global consciousness

you know something that we we have no

way of communicating with or or even

perceiving but we might be able to see

some effects of it and if if there were

such a thing I think it might delight in

and you know like a fan what baffling us

with trends that we don’t understand you

know like oh and then another way to

think of that is maybe it believes like

the rest of us like all of us do in

changing environments and changing

attitudes and moods and so forth so it

might feel real good sometimes and not

so great sometimes what do you feel is

gonna happen though in the near future

when it let’s say the data from the

global consciousness project comes out

and it’s it’s even satisfying just from

pure numbers like if the validity is

there on a scientific basis quantum

physics continues basically showcases

that there is some kind of transpersonal

Norfolk resident field what do you

anticipate happening in the future

becoming commonplace yeah yeah I wish I

could say I think it will so that’s

something really positive will and will

happen in my lifetime but I’m pretty old

so you guys are hopefully very young and

you will see some very you will see some

gathering of intelligence on the planet


notion when I started this project 15

years ago was that there is there should

be something like TRD Shannon’s notion

would not a sphere yeah which is the

sheath of intelligence for the earth we

very desperately need a kind of

protective shell or surround of

intelligence for this planet because

we’re wearing it as it is we need to

govern ourselves and we need to

collaborate and I and coalesce as a kind

of intelligence for the earth which is

what and they are said poetically but

also persuasively I think is the destiny

of human evolution you know we’ve gone

you know from single cells to

complicated you know insects and birds

and animals to humans that think and he

said that while we imagine sometimes

were the pinnacle of evolution there is

another stage that’s easy to envision

and that of combination humans into a

larger scale working and definitely does

kind of manage things so that we have we

have safe and beautiful productive home

on this planet Wow very interesting

can we can we just talk about white Hawk

eco-village because it I just want a

piece of land there it seems like a

pretty cool place um is this something

you started just a bunch of people kind

of living together or it was actually

started by not by me but I guess I could

say that my son Greg was one of the

people who started he and another yeah

he worked together with several people

some there’s a

who owned the land and inherited the

farm 120 acres and rather than have it

having it built into a shopping center

he wanted to build something like an eco

village and got together with others and

ready much time I was blown another bat

and so they proceeded to build begin an

eco village that’s called white Hawk and

I don’t know how you came across it but

I am actually building a house there too

oh cool

yeah just digging into the research and

I saw that you were affiliated with it

or I wasn’t sure and looks like a really

cool place to kind of be so other than

having a really cool beard and probably

one of the coolest jobs on the planet

dr. Nelson I think you’re a pretty

interesting character you have a really

really cool story and I know I know that

your your your use in your words you’re

old but um I mean we yeah I mean I think

I definitely think that this work it has

a long way to go and we I mean this and

we’re just kind of touching it and I

think it’s apparent from all the critics

and the naysayers and and people who

kind of you know like talk badly about

what’s going on I think that you know

after sometime it’ll become self

apparent that we are connected that we

do experience things on a global scale

so that’s that’s kind of what we’re

trying to do here at the human

experience we’re trying to bring

awareness to that so there’s like a

birthing process going on right now it

seems I really think that that’s right

that’s a beautiful metaphor for what’s

happening because because you know there

there’s always something new coming on

anybody who believes that we’ve reached

the end of the trail is just wrong and

and I think I’d like to also say people

that don’t actually know what they’re

talking about typically are wrong a lot

of the people

who are critical of research like

happens in professional parapsychology

don’t do their homework and it’s it’s

kind of a sad thing that they

nevertheless wind up being listened to

by people I had like the editors at

Wikipedia but I don’t want to complain

about that I’d rather just get on with

the business of learning as much as we

can while we’re able to you know keep on

doing these kinds of experiments I think

we are it’s a gift that we are able in

in this day and age and this is by the

way only possible in the last two or

three decades they have to do something

like the global consciousness project it

required the internet and you guys may

be too young to even know we’re not that

young no it’s okay no no yeah I had the

the privilege of watching this birth i

watch the internet evil I was at

Princeton University which is one of the

original artha knowed a lot of that was

going on I watched the first connections

between Firestone library and the

compare what was called the computer

center happening you know it’s like now

I can go to the library and log into my

my accounts at the computer center and

crank up the APL and some analysis Wow

that’s that was like in the late

eighties and early nineties but anyway

it’s it is really the we talk about

exponential growth there is no telling

what will be what it will look like in

even five years you know how long ago

did the iPod iPhone take storm the

planet you know yeah you know places in

Africa which where there is no internet

connection but you can you can connect

anyway because you got a phone

it’s really complexity upon complexity

it seems yeah it’s beautiful

so we have I think you said it very well

we’ve got a long way to go there’s a

tremendous amount to learn you scratch

the surface and and hope to I guess one

of the things I personally am you know

one of the things I try to do is present

a enough material to interest some other

people in doing the same kind of work

and and there are there are people all

around I’m also very much interested in

fostering as much as I can the kind of

interconnection of interconnections you

guys are a group I don’t know how many

people are in that are already you know

connected to the human XP act but it’s

probably a large number on the other

hand there are a bunch of organization

you’ve never heard of who also have a

large number of people were doing that

they were working there in the same you

know it’s fields plowing the same fields

planning the same seeds and then

nurturing the growth so we’re just

waiting for that can learn in some of us

yeah one of my pet notions is and it

seems I’m too out straight to do this

myself is to find a little you know

somehow foster a group whose mission is

to connect all the groups you know

provide information to everybody about

everybody else that’s it that’s a very

important role that you know if you look

through different types of the more

hermetic hermetic aspects of society

from previous ages and they talk about

different archetypes and there’s there’s

something to be said for that that

archetype or that that that pinpoint

linchpin connector that gets all these

different pieces together you know I

wish I had enough time and energy to do

more with it but I am GCP I have a I get

a lot of incoming from people like you


people like the circle of life in Italy

and the in the Hungarian group doing the

same kind of things there’s just there

there we are all over the place and

pretty soon I think this will happen

within I think within a few years that

there will be just a kind of coalescence

tremendous growth toward each other

where people are no longer thinking only

in terms of what I’m doing and how I

want to be first or I think my poor my

project is very important to realizing

that I don’t need to be first I just

need to be there and connect with the

other folks who are on the same path

doctor doctor else can I give you an

idea for one of these first convergences

last week we had two weeks ago our last

kiss we had Tom Schroeder and he was

working with Rick Doblin from the Maps

Institute and they seem to be going kind

of on this fringe that fringe but that

you know they’re going on from the

psychedelic standpoint exploring that

kind of realm and do you think that’s a

convergence that perhaps the global

consciousness project and people

studying perhaps psychedelics and

getting people to actually getting

scientists almost to perhaps use

substances to explore these spaces and

these ideas in a scientific manner do do

I think that’s possible or desirable yes

there there’s a long and honorable

history in spite of what some of the

historians say too that you know people

like Terrence Terrence McKenna Baba Ram

Dass and you know less both all kinds of

hippies they started making connections

that other people weren’t doing I think

it was partly driven by some of the you

know the psychedelic experiences so dr.

Nelson last one last question and and

we’ll wrap this up

have you other than this product I know

that you’re kind of strictly a scientist

and you like the order and things but

have you personally experienced anything

spiritual or like an out-of-body

experience or anything like that have

you had anything like that happen to you

oh never no no I’m I have I I mentioned

this series of meaningful coincidences I

actually have a chapter in a book that I

am writing this called design by

coincidence what I mean by that is that

lots of what happens in my life and I

think it may be more true of others than

they are able to see is a lot of what

happens is driven by really what what

from another perspective should be

called chance but when you have one

after another after another chance

occurrences that you know come together

in such a way that it’s unavoidable that

you make a certain decision or go in a

certain direction then there’s something

in spiritual about that I think and I’ve

heard I’ve experienced a tremendous

amount of that yeah what I am and I am

where I am exactly because of that

there’s a profound understanding that I

have within my personal history you know

I’ve had all kinds of little littler

incidents – like driving down a snowy

road and hearing on the radio a song

that was telling me she’s alright

there’s no problem it looked like there

was difficulty but it’s overcome it it’s


and then finding out later that a friend

of mine had skidded off the road into

the ditch didn’t get hurt and and so

forth I mean the song was telling me

just don’t don’t

word and that sounds kind of mundane but

it’s not mundane when you experience it

yeah yeah

doctor do you have any questions to wrap

this up or yeah is there what’s going on

next for the global consciousness

project there’s anything else we can

look forward to or perhaps I can say we

can direct our listeners to well the

shameless plug in yeah that’s the site

that people should use is HTTP colon

slash slash global – mind dot org there

are other addresses that will get you

there but most of them wind up going to

the primary server which is on a slow a

low bandwidth connection and so people

get disappointed and and also that a

overload night my the primary server so

global my dashboard I think I global –

mind org or they can just Google a

global consciousness project and they

will land on your pages all right they

will land on my page but probably the

primer server or the slow one okay yeah

we had just a quick anecdote here if we

close off we had our last interview I

got I got a email noticed that the

server was overloaded because 70,000

people were clicking our podcast link

and so so thanks guys for for you know

putting me in that situation it’s

definitely one of those it’s a good

problem so dr. Nelson and it’s is really

you’re a really cool guy man I

definitely want to buy you a beer or

whatever it is you’re drinking on these

days but thank you

yeah I think that would be really cool

thank you some locally but thank you for

lending us you know your time and

and your knowledge and very very cool to

have you on here really enjoy that yeah

thank you it’s a very great pleasure to

talk with you guys for a number of

reasons one you you’re prepared you

actually paid attention to it you know

what the questions might be number two

you are obviously in the business of

bringing people together and informing

people about in a sense who we are

there’s a lot to be known and we need

people like you to you know spread the

words spread the actually beautiful

understanding and what I what means to

be human

well that actually that means allows I

don’t want to belabor everything but I’m

they remind me of a Terence Mckenna

podcast I was listening to recently

retox but you need civilization needs

Scouts and every every generation the

civilization and the status quo they

come against these Scouts who are

supposed to look over the right to say

that we’re Scouts but there there seems

to be a role for this specific type what

you’re doing in your field and what

other people are doing in their fields

and you know this isn’t this is an

important task the hand and just because

the the the general population doesn’t

see it that way we got at this point

because of it so for sure Terence

Mckenna was a scout and so you got thank


I’ll definitely take that compliment any

day thank you so much this is this has

been the human experience I’m Xavier and

dr. G thank you thanks so much guys for


we will catch you guys next time

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