Transcript for Episode 158 – Dr. Bernard Beitman Synchronicity

my guest for tonight is dr. Bernard bite
man dr. Brightman is a psychiatrist
author and researcher he is widely
regarded as the first psychiatrist since
Carl Jung to systemize the study of
coincidences and add scientific rigor to
this term synchronicity he developed the
first valid scale to measure point
coincidence sensitivity dr. Bernard has
written several books one of which
received two national awards he’s
internationally known for his research
in panic disorder he attended Yale
Medical School and completed his
residency at the University of Stanford
dr. Bernard it’s such a pleasure to have
you on the program sir welcome to hxp
thank you very much the Savior thank you
very much
so dr. Bernard I mean I love this book
you know I’ve heard so much about
synchronicities especially in the last
you know several years or so I think
this has become more of a meme you know
as it were but I know the term comes
from Carl Jung Carl Jung termed this
phrase so if you would you know if you
would just give us a little bit of a
background of how you got into this work
because you’re a psychiatrist you’re a
practicing psychiatrist and and also the
definition of synchronicity for any
anyone that doesn’t know what that means
please it’s an important question what
we mean by several of the terms first of
all we can start with the word
coincidence what do we mean by the word
coincidence becomes our first question
and what we’re studying is meaningful
coincidences ones that somehow seem to
have some meaning to the purpose to the
person who is experiencing them the
there’s three to other words or really
three other words to pay attention to
synchronicity serendipity and the lesser
known word called see reality well go
I’ll go through all of those because I
I’m glad you start with how we define
these because that’s where we should
I’m a coincidence by itself a remarkable
concurrence of events without apparent
causal connection in other words there
might be a cause but it is not apparent
and that’s that’s a kind of a teasing
definition of the word there there are
other ways people use the term sometimes
they they add they add adjectives that
make a difference in the way the person
thinks about it but the adjectives can
be coincidental mere only pure true and
just and these suggest that the
coincidence should be disregarded
remember the dictionary definition says
we don’t know what the cause is no
apparent cause implying that there might
be and I have been drawn by wondering
well what might have made them happen
and for those that we want to pay
attention to and suggest there might be
something to them we call them
meaningful remarkable and amazing and
those adjectives draw our attention to
them from from the word coincidence
comes some come funny phrases there are
no coincidences say some people sure and
what does that mean I mean it’s a kind
of a a tantalizing phrase that’s almost
as ambiguous as the definition I read
about whether there’s a cause or not
when you say there are no coincidences
you may mean one you may mean that you
know the cause again remember the
definition said no apparent cause so now
you know the cause because you can say
there are no coincidences when you sweat
you know the cause there are no
coincidences and what are the two major
beliefs about cause of coincidence
Savior well
one is God and that’s the most popular
one because a lot of people like to say
quote Einstein but I’m not sure that was
who started it
coincidences are God’s Way of remaining
anonymous when you when you when you
look at that phrase coincidences are
God’s Way of remaining anonymous God is
no longer anonymous right and I mean you
could even say that God speaks in
synchronicity right people say that
people say that God is speaking to you
through coincidences the Bible both the
Old Testament and the Hebrew Bible and
the New Testament have lots of
coincidences in them and so do the
world’s major religions have lots of
coincidences in them they are part of
religious lore so God is often invoked
as having something to do with making
them happen if you believe in God God is
the final cause and there is no argument
about the cause because God in the way
this way of thinking is the final cause
and that may be I think there are lots
of questions for us to answer about the
nature of reality and some of them are
like why are we here what’s going on
around here
how did we get here what is my purpose
in life why are human beings around you
well coincidences give us clues to all
of those once you say God does it all it
stops there but I am interested in the
variables that get to that final cause
if that’s where it is because there are
many variables that influence what what
is I call coincidentally that is the
predisposition to experience
now let’s go back to the original
question of like what do we mean by
these terms meaningful coincidence and
the other the other words that I bring
in and there are four words that
coincidentally I’ll be thank you I’ll
begin with an S and end in an ity for
key words revolving around meaningful
coincidences all beginning with an S and
ending with an ity the first one is
synchronicity right the second is
serendipity third is see reality that’s
from Paul camera or 1919 okay and the
fourth is a word I made up called
simulpast II ah okay and words I’m
opacity is based on the experience of
many people happened to me once and
that’s got me started and in this or
really going in coincidences Sam opacity
refers to the experience of the pain of
a loved one at a distance hmm hmm okay
so go ahead so someone so someone that
you love or care about is going through
some sort of emotional trauma and you
for some unknown reason you feel it you
pick up on it it’s like you’re your
antenna is ringing and and you you call
you reach out to them and you confirm
that there is Aires in fact something
going on right right and you can feel it
in lots of different ways in your body
is mostly where simulpast he comes but
you can also feel it in your mind you
may be experiencing as I did the pain of
the loved one that the loved one is
experiencing what happened to me was
that I was standing over a sink in San
Francisco on Hayes Street in the
Fillmore district if you know San
Francisco in an old Victorian at the
kitchen sink and I was
choking uncontrollably and it was 11
p.m. on February 26 1972 Oh No and and
1971 and I couldn’t stop something was
in my throat
I couldn’t stop I couldn’t stop
I I co-wrote a song about this called
the Carl was choking on his was choking
on his own blood as the title which is
what happened because my father 3,000
miles away at 2 a.m. in Wilmington
Delaware was choking on his own blood
and dying oh my god that’s the kind of
thing that gets one’s attention yeah my
brother called me the next day and told
me and and it turned out the next day
was February 27th which also happened to
be my birthday Wow it’s a it’s a it’s a
sort of thing that you want to look into
if you’re curious like I was and it
stayed with me all these years and was
one of the drivers for writing the book
connecting with coincidence it’s it’s
it’s one of the drivers that keeps me
interested in all this trying to
understand how these things happen
yeah I mean I think it’s I think it’s a
great line of you know questioning and
and thought and my condolences you know
but it woke you up to this this notion
that things are connected people are
connected perhaps everything is
connected perhaps you know God and I
refer to God as a sort of intelligence I
don’t view God as this person in the sky
that’s judging you know what we’re doing
it’s more of I don’t I don’t know it’s
it’s more of the moment here now the
space between me and you you you know
and me speaking right now God is
everything right so when we when we sort
of open our eyes to the reality in front
of us it’s almost like a feedback loop
of information that you can use as you
said to gain clues
about your life about which choices to
make about which directions to go and
it’s amazing how those kind of play out
and you know it’s it’s really mysterious
and that’s that’s why I think it’s so
amazing that you’ve written this book
and sort of followed in the path of Carl
Jung I don’t think anyone else has has
taken this path so I’m really glad that
you you know I’ve done this but tell us
more um you know so when you know you
talk it let’s move into love you talk
you talk about love it’s it’s the first
chapter in your book right romance let’s
say that you encounter someone that you
feel a mysterious connection to you’re
just magnetically pulled towards this
person you don’t know why you don’t know
why and you know in the book you have
several different examples I think I
think there’s one please forgive me if I
butcher this but I think in in one of
the examples there’s a guy he doesn’t
know why and he just goes up to this
woman and he says I think I might know
you please give me your number she does
and they end up you know falling in love
how does it work I mean why why do we
feel connected to certain people why do
we feel this magnetic resonance to
people maybe you know the the musical
whole musical South Pacific you don’t
well there’s a song in there that goes
some enchanted evening you will see a
stranger you will see a stranger across
a crowded room and somehow you’ll know
you’ll know even then that’s the kind of
thing that happens with people why it
happens is it becomes a mystery in
itself that you recognize it becomes
what’s so important that there is
someone there that you need to be with
the story you might have been talking
about was a woman a man was in the
airport and saw a woman
walking by him and somehow he asked her
just like that just like the song and
they stayed married for 20 years but
they didn’t stay married forever they
were in their lives together help each
other a lot and that was that there that
they they each went on their separate
ways and this this challenges the notion
of like we’re meant to be that and we’re
meant to be means forever forever is a
long long time and and people hold on to
what happened as something that means
they have to keep going and it really
isn’t the case anymore particularly as
people live longer but why it happens
how they’re brought together I mean I
love the story of some of of a guy
riding around on his motorcycle and I’m
you know in a Caribbean island he was
bored with all the jobs he was doing in
a hotel were a lot of women liked him
but he didn’t like them and he just went
for a motorcycle ride in there and the
beach was a woman all by herself and he
rode up there in blah blah you know
that’s how it happened I don’t know the
mechanics of it and people talk about
past lives and stuff I I think it’s a
worthy of a scientific experiment
because first we have to establish that
this happens and the song I sang and all
the stories suggest yes it definitely
happens and the problem is what do we do
with it once it happens right right and
I’ve had stories of people just relying
on the coincidences between them to keep
them together but that ain’t gonna work
that ain’t gonna be the way it’s gonna
happen you got then do if any of our
listeners are married you know it’s work
work you got it you got a you got to
learn something called tolerance each
other and you got to learn something
when she says recess we gotta talk honey
you can’t run away you’ve you’ve gotta
talk things out and these people I’m
talking about lasted for ten years maybe
which is pretty good but they never
bothered to do the things I just
mentioned you know it’s it’s amazing I
think I think that’s really important I
think you nailed it
you know these coincidences these
synchronicities can bring us attract
these specific people into our lives and
great perhaps they create this
environment in which these connections
happen but you know at the end of the
day there’s this old Buddhist you know
quote before enlightenment chop wood
carry water after enlightenment chop
wood carry water same exact thing when
you you know it’s not like this magical
journey that happens when you when you
find you know say you know what’s your
soulmate or the love of your life you’re
going to have to do that work chop wood
and carry water perhaps even together
you know maybe well maybe one of you
chopping wood
if you don’t carry water hopefully
that’s gonna have to happen either way
right so something else that you
mentioned in the book is that sometimes
these types of coincidences line up and
these people enter your life
for a specific purpose and then they
exit your life right why does that take
place well when you ask why why do birds
saying so sweet and lovers await the
break of day I mean why do people fall
in love you want we don’t know why why
is one of those why is the sky blue
questions why is it tough one but I
think it’s an important question and I
want to try to answer it because it has
to do with why are we here Xavier why
are you here
what is your purpose on being in this
planet on this planet what is my purpose
mine is I got it now I got an
established coincidence study so I’m
really glad that you just invited me be
on the show because that’s my job I’ve
got to get coincident studies going in a
way that brings people together
I understand this stuff these
synchronicities these serendipities try
to be able to figure out how they work
and how you can use them that’s my job
your job includes what you’re doing now
with your with this this show so much
appreciate being on it and then hearing
your questions
when you ask why are people brought into
your lives I have a radio show myself
called connecting with coincidence and
this morning when I was interviewing
someone it happened again that she
teaches me things about myself she
teaches me things about how the world
works and she made it clear to me today
for example that anger if you get angry
look at the possibility there has been a
boundary violation in you with my the
other person and think of intuition as
something that’s there to help you and
these were clarifications to me that I
could use at this time and this happens
to me with people on the radio show what
happens with some of my patients where
they teach me things that I need to know
at this time I’m a little bit of a
little bit of them weirdo in a lot of
ways but maybe I’m not so weird and
that’s what I want to hear it from you
is that I think there’s there is this
earth University that we are here to
learn about this reality and our place
in it so when people come into our lives
my view is they’re here to help you
learn become more spiritually and
psychologically developed what do you
think yeah yeah yeah I’m so glad that
you asked you know you put that question
forward to me because you know I I
really do sit with the material you know
when when a guest comes on to the show I
really do my best to absorb as much of
it as I can night I sit and I’ll cycle
sort of questions in my mind and you
know your while I was reading your book
this idea came into my head and I
thought about this before but it was so
clear in this moment you know in this
meditation that I was doing was so clear
the way I saw it
it was that you know perhaps we’re in a
computer perhaps this is a simulation
you know perhaps there’s different
programs that are running and perhaps
you know this tunnel of light that we
see if perhaps that’s just exiting the
so called matrix I mean you even use
that word the matrix
you could you could say matrix is you
know matrix is connecting different
events together but you know I I agree I
think we are this is a place that we
come to learn to experience the human
experience and and I think you know some
people enter our lives for sure for to
teach us different things so that we can
learn so that we can grow so that we can
evolve you get into in the book you get
into you know I am hoping and
anticipating and believing and seeing
that our conversation is going to help
each other in this psychological and
spiritual development and one of the
ways I just heard that happening is you
talking about the simulation and one one
because there are different words for it
I use the term psycho sphere our mental
atmosphere which we can come back to
it’s a it’s a very dynamic thing but the
that coincidences are clues to how that
that simulation works mmm
they’re clues to how the simulation work
because there is something going on and
we don’t know what it is do you mr.
Jones we don’t know what it is and I am
curious and you are curious and our
listeners are curious we want to know
what’s happening and one way to think
about that there is a simulation or
there is a psycho sphere our mental
atmosphere and these coincidences are
hints about how the things work okay I
mean there’s there’s so many different
things that I want to ask you right now
but let me try I’ll do my best to sort
of synthesize you know and and wrap that
up as much as I can okay so so
in the book you talk about generating
these synchronicities or coincidences do
you think that and you mentioned that if
you if you alter your pattern of doing
things like yeah let’s say you’re you’re
on a schedule
you know 9:00 to 5:00 sort of schedule
where you do everything the same way
every single day there was a project
that I was involved with for a short
time where we were using a quantum
number generator – yeah – to assign
geolocation data to certain points – to
exhibit exactly that to create exactly
that event to bring you out of your
everyday sort of you know operation so
why why do you think that is do you
think you run that by me again because I
didn’t quite following it because I love
that this is such an important question
you’re asking if you’ve got a computer
model to model this I think that’s
really groovy okay okay so um have you
heard of the global consciousness
project dr. Roger Nelson okay perfect
I’ve had him on the show he he basically
runs this quantum computer and it
basically just spits out numbers you
know just random numbers and it got me a
quote-unquote random and so some friends
and I we coated this sort of bot this
this robot that was that would connect
you know it would pull a string from
that quantum number generator and then
apply that to a latitude and longitude
on Google Maps right and we were we were
trying to experiment with this but for
me it was it was actually sort of an
exercise in psychosis because it it
makes you feel like you know every how
can we determine what is meaningful and
what isn’t you know how can we determine
how can we say like if we think
everything has meaning then where is the
line where is the blue I mean there’s
some blur there right I mean does that
make sense well yes I have been I’ve
been able to try to tease apart
meaning of the word meaning in
meaningful coincidence it’s very
important because the term meaning and
meaningful is it’s crucial to the way
young thought about how coincidences are
created but I never saw how he defined
meaning because it has so many different
meanings I mean it’s fun to do that
there’s an old book from the 1920s
called the meaning of meaning that is
still impressed so what do we mean by
meaning becomes an important question we
can go down that but I’d like to be able
to to talk about your question about
being in a basic pattern or in your life
and and somehow doing something to that
pattern increases coincidences now this
is a correlation I’ve been able to make
by reading a lot of stories and the
correlation works something like this
tear the web of quotidian reality and
coincidences fly in okay here the web of
kawin of quotidian of regular reality
and coincidences fly in that’s an image
that I’d have our listeners and you pay
attention to it opens up some doors and
the parrot the correlates of tearing
that web of quotidian reality include
need life stress life change and high
emotion need life stress and high
emotion and many if not most of the
coincidences that are have impact and
that’s one of the definitions of
meaningful is its impact and some unions
define synchronicity only or call
something meaningful coincidence
synchronicity only when and has an
effect on the person’s individuation on
that person’s growth towards
psychological and spiritual development
that’s a very narrow definition but some
unions sting stick right to it
because it’s such an important part of
what synchronicities do for people right
I mean that makes a lot of sense because
I mean let’s say you know you find
something like a like a battery or
something you know everyday you know but
but you can’t figure out you know what
that battery means or something you know
or maybe there’s there’s someone that
keeps dropping a battery that’s
following you around or something I
don’t know no no definitely not talking
about spirals following her around okay
so so one thing that I can for sure say
that happens to me all the time is you
know I will see certain numbers you know
in a pattern like 333 or 1111 I think
this has become a phenomenon where you
know people they see this and they have
started to ascribe meaning to this 11:11
sort of it’s become a meme and you know
for me this is amazing dr. Bernard like
without you no exaggeration I really
truly mean this every time there is some
sort of turbulent event in my life
before that happens
before that occurs I will see the number
666 just every time I have no I have no
predilection towards the number 666
like I’m not enemies with the number 666
I get you know I get the idea you know
of all the spatial dimensions I’ve
studied the Kabbalah I get it
so you know I I’m not there’s no there’s
no number racism happening with me in
the number 666 but when I see that
number and there something will go down
you know so I’m wondering you know what
you think you know about this and
sometimes and with other numbers I
started to I started to you know for a
long time before I even really started
to discover this work I was always
looking for different patterns I think
our brains are connecting you know dots
wherever those right so you know I would
read like license plates and stuff like
that and see if you know I could connect
some dots just as a game yeah as a
thought experiment
so you know I’m sorry twice I call it
exercise exercise okay so you know what
do you think about this the brain as a
pattern recognizer is so crucial and
some people love patterns love finding
patterns and you’re one of them and I’m
one of them I like finding patterns it’s
fun and that number thing you were doing
is fun to do because it does sharpen
your ability to do it in other ways the
number one has been a conundrum for me
for a long time I had the number 23
which is not an uncommon happy number
for people for quite a while it was my
football jersey my at 32 was my to my
home address and a lot of other places
that 23 and 32 were and five were around
for me they made a movie about it yeah
they did they did and that that I think
there’s something to it but there are so
many numbers around like on license
plates there are so many numbers on and
the media and in newspapers that you can
find numbers and you know a stop clock
is Right twice a day
there there are you’re gonna run it I
just I had a little nap today and I had
there I got up it was it was 444 and I I
laugh at those those are funny when they
happen but when you describe 666 as a
prodrome to some weird thing happening I
pay attention to that those are the ones
I look for where somebody who is a good
observer pays attention to the
correlation between the appearance of
the number and something else that’s a
that’s becomes a correlation that is a
signal for you that you got to start
paying attention because something is
about to happen and that’s really cool
that you do that right right
so okay so I mean this leads me back I
don’t want to jump too far ahead here
but I do want to move forward a little
bit but you know this this leads me back
to this idea that
we’re in a video game this is you know
like you you talk about money let’s talk
about money you know you talk about
timely money in your book and I love
this you know and you called them
you call them money packs right so it’s
kind of like an airdrop like where you
you know maybe you’re short on rent that
month by two hundred and forty six
dollars and whatever the number is and
somehow mysteriously you know somehow it
it almost never fails it’s really
strange independent of belief it doesn’t
matter what you think about this this
will happen no matter what
so you know I’m just what is going on
here it does feel like you know maybe
there’s an airdrop happening and here’s
your maybe your higher-self
and it’s like here you go here’s exactly
what you need to get by this month don’t
worry about it you know just just keep
going I wish it were that one-to-one
correlation my experience it isn’t it
does happen and again why it happens is
influenced by need life changes and high
emotion because when they need money
like the way you’re describing it that’s
more likely to show up a psychology
graduate student named Mary Kay Landon
in 1990 and this is in in my book
connecting with coincidence did a study
cleverly called the study of unexpected
money summarized as s um study of
studies unexpected money it was I’m not
sure how she thought about that but
that’s the right title for it so she
tried to figure out how it happened
money that comes into your hands
surprisingly and suddenly without your
doing without your earning it so
listening it specifically seeking it out
or otherwise expecting it it’s a little
different place from needing it so she
wanted to see what it took for people to
be correlating that with actually
getting the money and you can read about
the details in in the book but if you if
you stay receptive and don’t push
and really need it you’re you’re more
likely to get it and we’ve heard this
lots of times that if if you if you
expect if you’re relaxed about it and
you expect to get it those are the two
things that help you get there positive
belief is very much part of making it
happen and they come through with
prayers and in in other ways when you
start thinking about em we know too much
that imagining something helps to make
it happen but that’s not enough anymore
this was a study where people did things
but in in life out here in the wild
usually have to do something you can’t
just imagine like a thousand dollar bill
on the ceiling of your your bedroom and
look at it and it’s gonna come to you
it’s not gonna happen that way you’re
gonna have to do something but then
you’re talking about those times and
they’re in my book to where suddenly it
just happens it’s there but some of the
some of the stories if you look at them
have to do with praying to God for the
money and what happens is the person
gets an intuitive feeling of going to a
file cabinet and pulling out an unopened
envelope and there the money is well it
was it was money that the person had
received but didn’t open so that person
knew somehow that the money was there it
didn’t just happen she she just had to
like recognize what she already knew and
I love these stories like this because
they like to say it’s some outside
agency that brought them the money but
no you did it yourself
you could find it and I look for those
situations that I can explain by the
person doing it because the trouble with
the phrase there are no coincidences
they either say it’s random or it’s God
but a lot of times you and I have
something to do with making it happen in
fact we’re important part of the players
often absolute absolutely I mean you
know there there is no road map to any
of this so you know we’re kind of learn
and in adopting as we go along but you
know it’s it’s interesting and you talk
about this in the book and the you know
we’ve had many of the people that were
in the movie the secret and that
discussed you know the law of attraction
on this show and you know this is
something interesting that I like to
think about at times it’s it’s as if
let’s say that you’re generating a
certain type of frequency and you know
you even talk about it in this book as
well um like attracts like it seems you
know that’s the way it goes here you
know it’s it’s not that opposites
attract it’s it’s that like attracts
like so you know if you’re if you’re
resonating at a certain frequency you
tend to attract that same frequency is
that is that along the lines of your
experience as well it’s there along the
lines of my theorizing yes okay the
actually the actuality of that gets us
down to what do we mean by resonating
and what is it that’s resonating and
where is it what is resonating with and
those are the those are questions that
Rupert Sheldrake has a has his way of
talking about morphic resonance which is
great and he’s a he’s a he was on mine
and as I had the pleasure of talking
with him in person in British Columbia
this summer and he’s he’s a wonderful
guy to talk with the in what he knows
about morphic resonance is very very
interesting because he doesn’t know what
morphic fields are he compares them to
magnetism and electromagnetism but
magnetism before we knew what a magnetic
field was and he says that’s what
morphic fields are right now he knows
they’re there but he doesn’t know what
the structure of them is I’m getting to
think about different levels of
vibration I’m looking at the the
strangeness of our reality when science
only knows about 5% of what the universe
is made out of
that the other 95% is made of dark
energy and dark matter and I don’t I and
they don’t hear people saying that it’s
just it seems that I hear people
implying that it’s always out there this
dark matter and dark energy but no it’s
right here right here between us right
now dark energy and dark matter are in
all parts of the universe and they’re
called dark because we don’t know what
they’re made out of and so for us to to
be guessing about what’s going on around
here is would be based on not knowing
what 5% of not 95% of the universe is
made out of but still I go to the
quantum ideas to start with not to end
with that the universe is made up of not
emptiness out there the space is not
empty but there’s a lot of mind blowing
blowing blowing stuff going on there
with a lot of little particles bouncing
around and kind of a wild dance their
space is not empty these things are
these things are moving around and if we
go from the quantum little quantum
particles and start thinking about how
they come together we begin to maybe go
from a very very ethereal to something
as solid as us as as the as the
microphone holding as the typewriter and
for the keyboard in front of me these
are solid things so how do we go from
those very Spacey things they sparked
things to where we are now I’m just
taking a simple version of of the idea
saying it’s vibrating at various
different levels of density and those
different levels of vibration have some
of them signature of vibrations in them
so they you Xavier and I have signature
vibrations that are like fingerprints
for us and those fingerprints can be
resonating those vibrations can be
resonating well not only with each other
but also with things and somehow we can
resonate at a at the right vibration I’m
back to what you were saying earlier to
be able to have things resonate with us
and then move toward us okay we wait
okay so resonate with certain things
okay so let me just play on that and
then please if you could please expound
on that a little bit so let’s say you
know let’s say that there’s someone who
is you know comfortable you know as far
as monetarily we’ll use that example and
but they’re dreaming
you know they they’re dreaming about
having millions of dollars they don’t
need millions of dollars you know
they’re already surviving they’re doing
well you know but but they’re they’ve
got these big dreams they’ve got these
big aspirations you know about being
rich so perhaps that is not in the line
of their you know vibration or their
frequency does that make sense is that
definitely definitely definitely
definitely because the frequency I think
is partly determined by what your role
in life is okay so it makes you wonder
about a lot of different things about
how you know things just play out in
your life and direct you in certain ways
yeah dr. Bernard like have you ever I’m
sure you’ve experienced this but have
you ever had this happen where it seems
like the directions that you’re going
you just hit a wall it’s like no matter
what you do you’re just you hit wall
after wall after wall after wall and
because life is almost forcing you to be
at a certain place at a certain time and
and and you end up there and then it’s
only after that situation you realize
when you look back you know Steve Jobs
talked about this a little bit in the
realm of business but I think it has to
do with life as well it that we only
understand things when we look back at
them when we look at back at the event
events and the way that they unfolded
then we on
stand them but when we’re in them we’re
in the the subjective state of them is
very difficult to understand like okay
what’s going on but doesn’t that put
into question free will I mean I want to
be able to have the choice to you make
these decisions but if life is giving me
these different walls and putting me
here then where’s the free will at I
like the phrase we we have free will we
have no other choice I love that and
that and that is that that’s Isaac
Bashevis singer and that the trouble
with the question is it’s a yes or no
question is there free will or not and
it’s the wrong question it’s the degree
of freewill we have and it’s measured by
just how many options do we have at any
particular moment some some people in
this world have such limited options
that they they are genetically and
environmentally or environmentally
constrained by anything for anything for
them to exercise their thought their
beliefs their desires they just gotta
just do what’s right in front of them
and some of that is almost by choice
people put themselves there but so
there’s so much poverty and and an
oppression and that a lot of people have
trouble making those decisions but even
in those circumstances there is some
free will but the question that it’s the
degree to which you can make a decision
looking back there’s two things that you
mentioned that I think need to be
separated hitting a wall sometimes those
are great things to happen I was a I was
a faculty member at the University of
Washington and wanted to get promoted
and they got rid of me
it wouldn’t promote me and it turned out
to be great for me to get out of there
and I went on to be chairman at the
University of missouri-columbia
psychiatry department for like 17 years
and I wouldn’t have happened if I stayed
at the University of Washington
sure so that hitting those walls are
really useful but then the freewill
I’m not sure how you bring in freewill
to the wall I mean if if life is putting
these walls up so that you go a certain
way it’s directing your will
you know it’s directing your realm of
choice like you said degrees of freewill
so it’s it’s like okay you have the
choice to keep going a certain direction
and I I find also that you know
sometimes lessons will be repeated until
they are learned oh yeah oh yeah you
know so so it’s like it will spot it’s a
spiral it’s it’s not really you know a
circle it’s more of like you go up until
it’s these higher degrees of learning
and perhaps perhaps assimilating that
learning increases your degrees of free
will I think you’re right there
I really think you’re right right there
that’s good okay so so I want to I want
to cover this we’re close to the end
can’t believe it flew by but okay so you
talk about you talk you you define
different you give these four
coincidences but you you talk about the
analysis of different coincidences and I
just I just want to read them off okay
so the first the first being emotional
charge coincidences usually provoke
surprise wonder curiosity or interest
emotional charge creates a feeling of
significant and meaningfulness number
two parallel content two or more
elements of the coincidence signify the
same or similar ideas or things they
have a meaning in common
number three explanation coincidences
usually trigger the question what does
this mean this question can indicate a
search for how the coincidence happened
its cause or its explanation and last
one number four is use the question what
does this mean also indicates and
attempt to understand implications for
the person’s future its personal
significance the coincidence implies
something about a decision whether to
make it or not
a course of action or a new possibility
those are the four meanings in a
meaningful coincidence that you just
were talking about and they I was it
took me a while to be able to get the
clarity that you just were able to read
it’s fun to hear them again but I don’t
those are the four meetings and I’m not
what what are you asking me about about
them I’m just glad you read them okay
okay I mean I’m trying to get a picture
of this you know if if we can understand
the realms of of synchronicity then
perhaps we can start to establish the
roadmap you know and oh yeah oh yeah
that’s what I’m trying to do but but
also you know Sigmund Freud was
sometimes a cigar is just a cigar right
right sometimes the coincidence is just
something to not pay attention to like
me waking up with four four four in the
clock and some of them are just like
funny they’re just like what sometimes
when that happens I think I say hey
you’re playing with me again right yeah
it’s like there are other elements
around me that I sense that may be
influencing what’s going on with me and
that’s what some of these coincidences
like that don’t seem to have any
particular personal meaning but they’re
the meaning they do have is that that
that I’ve been used to seeing the number
four four four before so it’s kind of
personally meaningful because I see a
pattern being repeated and that’s that’s
different from the explanation problem
or the even use problem so what I’m
looking go ahead at what I’m trying to
say is that I think I’m trying to do
what you’re talking about is how do we
establish making coincidences more
likely when we want to okay okay I love
that I love that and that was leading me
up to
I’m get I was getting there but okay so
so negative coincidences either these
are a thing right we talked about this
in the book why would that be necessary
why would we be why would a coincidence
be engineered to be negative it’s
there’s a lot of different forms of
negative coincidences there that one of
them you just talked about which is
hitting the wall when you’re going
forward and nothing there’s nothing
there but it turns out to be a very
helpful part of your life it called it’s
called negative but then when you look
back as I did with not getting tenure at
the University of Washington then you
look back and say boy I’m sure glad that
happened so that negative can be
negative at first but turn out to be
positive later some coincidences can be
positive at first like meeting the
person of your dreams and turn out to be
awful later so it’s positive first and
then negative later some of them are
just awful and one of the ones that is
just awful has to do with the
assassination of John Lennon Mark David
Chapman was was the is the person who
who murdered John Lennon and and he
followed a series of coincidences that
led him to actually pull the trigger on
December 8th and 1980 Chapman was
standing si the apartment building in
which John was living the Dakota in New
York City in Manhattan he had traced a
series of thoughts that he had
interpreted as coincidences this was the
building where the movie Rosemary’s Baby
was filmed Rosemary’s Baby was directed
by Roman Polanski who was the husband of
Sharon Tate another actress who was
eight months pregnant with her own with
their unborn son when she was killed by
Charles Manson’s gang
the gangs favorite song was helter
skelter which was written by Lennon and
McCartney as he thought about these
the actress Mia Farrow who played the
character of rosemary in the movie
walked by this meant to Chapman that
today was the day to kill John Lennon
Wow now sometimes I wonder dr. Bernard
like are we insane I mean are we crazy
to think about this stuff like I really
think about I think I mean how do you
even determine that you know so because
sometimes perhaps you you signify you
know you give something meaning that has
no meaning whatsoever you know it’s just
a just a banana just a cigar it’s just
that and yet you use it to propel your
life in a certain direction that can be
very negative on the first part of that
is we make up stories or patterns see
patterns that aren’t there that’s the
first part of it the negative part can
be next there’s a word for that now
we called apophenia that is seeing
patterns that aren’t there I made up
another word called crypto FINA which
means not seeing patterns that are there
and those are the two types of mistakes
I’ll say in pattern recognition that
people can make what you want to do is
find out the ones that are really
they’re not making up ones are not
missing ones but then there’s the
question of making a decision and
sometimes sometimes it looks like a good
choice to make it doesn’t seem like it’s
something it’s something you’re making
up it looks like a coincidence that you
should follow because it’s so clear and
this is not making it up this is like a
coincidence that well I maybe should
follow it and that can lead you into a
lot of trouble following ones that you
haven’t thought clearly about enough to
be able to do I knew somebody who had
lots of coincidences with a woman and
each one of them seemed like delicious
but following them
meant he got closer and closer to her
and the closer he got to her the more
pain he felt and a final final
coincidence was was just running into
her in a place where he kind of hoped
that he would and she just ignored them
she just ignored him and he he almost
got the message that time it took him
some time later to be able to figure it
coincidences that he wanted to have
happen but it didn’t work
mmm-hmm so so dr. Brown what if
coincidences and these events are just
like a sort of broadcast or like a
signal you know they’re like if if you
were to say I mean I don’t know if
you’ve ever studied like just
signal-to-noise ratio right yeah so yeah
so what if what if coincidences are a
signal that breaks apart the sort of
noise and use you you just that’s all it
is you know it’s just a signal and yet
and humans because we have this tendency
to connect dots you know we connect
whether it’s positive if we connect
whether it’s negative big based on the
events that surround those those
coincidences those signals it’s very
very important in answering that
question to recognize that the human
tendency to look for causes in
correlations in correlations has of
strong survival value this is the way we
figure out how things happen two things
happen around the same time are they
connected the simple start is a baby
cries and the mother comes the baby
begins to notice there’s a coincidence
between crying and the mother coming
then he begins to notice there’s a there
is a cause involved that if he cries she
comes and we do that in life all the
time sometimes we make bad guesses about
there being something there that’s a
cause but it
the way react this is the way we study
reality in this matrix is studying
coincidences and seeing if we can find
by good scientific methods if there is a
cause that we can then apply into the
future so you mentioned this earlier and
was saving this a little bit towards the
end but how do we generate luck how do
we generate you know the positive
coincidence is there a meditation that
we can do is there a mantra a chant I
mean how does it work and one more thing
I want to bring up after this after this
part all I can do is talk about the
circumstances that increase
coincidentally I haven’t been able to
develop yet a way to actually make them
happen and but when I say them there are
all kinds of coincidences that that
range from personally created where I
did it but I don’t know it nice several
stories that I can tell you about that
but but people do coincidences then
blame it on somebody else or in
something else outside of them and then
there is the the telepathy clairvoyance
precognition ones and those are very
real and we don’t know how they work but
we know that they happen and we have
good data to show that they happen in
here it’s only a matter of belief if you
can’t believe they happen then they
don’t happen but simulpast ‘ti and so
many other experiences suggest that
telepathy is a real thing and i like to
think of our technology as a modern
technology current technology is like a
reflection of our latent human
capacities that Follette a–they is like
texting somebody as well as the
telephone and that clairvoyance is like
having a webcam these are things that we
are using but we also have the capacity
to use but the fun ones are they are not
even those other ones that are beyond
telepathy and clairvoyance and
maybe even psychokinesis there are
there’s a mystery out there that I want
to be able to help settle the way you do
it where you can increase them that’s
all I can say is that one mention about
need and life stress and high emotion
but psychedelic drugs you mentioned you
betcha meditation
drumming things that lower what some
people call the filter between the brain
and the greater consciousness and that
filter gets lessened and it’s strength
and our minds can go wandering out in
the psycho sphere in our mental
atmosphere stuff can happen and just
what it is that’s happening out there
when we do it is part of the fun of
figuring out how this matrix we’re in
operates amazing I love it’s so much so
much so much you know um
we were gonna get back to meant the
mental atmosphere and I think that’s
really important and I’m so glad that
you mentioned psychedelics and
psychedelic drugs I was kind of
wondering whether to ask you about that
or not but you know since you brought it
up um it is it makes sense it makes
sense that that would connect with this
because you know what if what if there
is a there is a larger reality that’s
that we are just accessing and and as
you said these these compounds simply
lower the veil they simply allow us to
see and connect past the veil so so it
would make sense that perhaps it’s
adjusting your frequency or your
resonance to a point where it would
increase the amount of coincidences
after you take a psychedelic drug for
example you you betcha
you just start seeing more stuff I I was
one of my best education was on Haight
Street in the late 60s early 70s and
during that time I was getting blown out
by coincidences I just had there were so
many of them that I I hadn’t just
and so that flood of coincidences helped
also my looking at this
one of the ways of thinking about what
psychedelics do you can go to something
called the default mode network of the
brain and the default mode network is
what is what goes on when there’s
nothing else going on but it it just
keeps going it’s the default mode it
just keeps going well my mom my mom with
psilocybin that default mode network
doesn’t increase it gets decreased and I
think of the inactivity and I think of
the default mode Network as a possible
analog of what I call the mind brain
membrane there’s a membrane between our
brains and our minds and the psycho
sphere this membrane gets loosened as
you’re talking about gets opened up
under certain conditions that correlate
with the default mode Network being
slowed down and opens us up to the
psycho sphere in which there’s a lot of
stuff happening and we can get contact
with it and do telepathy and
clairvoyance and all kinds of other
things as we get to know how that psycho
sphere operates I mean it makes it a lot
of sense it just fits the puzzle the
puzzle puzzle pieces fit here you know i
think i think even meditation would
would open doors changing would or so
this yeah so it really connects and i
mean that’s why i’m so grateful that we
you know found each other really dr.
bernard because i don’t think there’s
anyone else that is you know picking up
where carl jung left off that’s what
you’re doing here and you know i think i
think you’re building the legacy until
at least we discover more and I think I
think really we’re at a point where now
we are we are sort of asking the the
questions that need to be asked and
science is getting to a point where
they’re defining they’re starting to
define the terms and we’re coming up
with the connection between science and
these these other sort of realms of
thought and energy and then when you
look at the current you know sort of
space of of things the global
environment of things it seems like we
are on the precipice of disaster global
disaster it feels like we are on the
verge of something huge I mean the Veda
is called it the Kali Yuga perhaps it’s
that but it does feel like there’s
something in the air oh yeah and
remember need life stress and high
emotion we got all of those right now as
you just described so the veil is being
torn open of quotidian reality and new
stuffs is gonna is coming in and what I
am doing is you summarize so nicely I’m
writing another book that is called the
fundamentals of meaningful coincidences
and it’s meant to be a textbook for a
future class at Earth University on
coincidences and it it’s doing what you
were saying I am categorizing
coincidences the different kinds the
different uses the different
explanations as a prelude to hopefully
more people coming together to study
them now I’m not the only one writing
about coincidence there are more and
more books about coincidences about
synchronicity and serendipity there’s
even something called the serendipity
society that had its first meeting in
London I went last this past September
and where it’s becoming an academic
thing serendipity is so there there is a
growing movement to study in just the
way you were talking about I was
delighted to hear the way you were
saying it Xavier that we need to study
scientifically and science begins with
categorizing the phenomena I mean dr.
Barnard we’re gonna wrap up here soon
but you know um it can you imagine if we
were in school and we learned about this
in school we just were taught this so I
think I think that your writing you know
something educational that could be you
know delivered into the hands of someone
that could help them understand even all
of this and I don’t I don’t want to you
know go down conspiracy lane
too much here but it does seem that in
the system that we’re in this earth life
system it does it seems like there isn’t
a oppression of information of knowledge
oh yeah and we have to be looking
ourselves and I think that’s that’s one
of the main reasons that I created this
show and bringing on you know guests
such as yourself is because I want to
give people the roadmap I want to create
that roadmap that we’ve all been looking
for and if you look at the shows you
know we’ve we’ve been doing that so you
know dr. Bernhard if we could there’s a
lot of people are gonna hear this
episode so you know if we could kind of
tie it into a bow and wrap it together
somehow that would be amazing just to
wrap it up is there anything that maybe
we could tell someone that is listening
that maybe needs a coincidence maybe
that needs is looking for that meaning
maybe there’s they’re going through a
hard phase in their life right now when
you’re going through a hard phase in
your life pay attention to the
possibility that there will be help and
assistance out there it appears that
many of us I don’t say everyone because
I can’t tell you this can open ourselves
up to being helped I hear so many people
saying that when they look they find
you’ve got to be able to be open the dog
that trots about finds a bone keep
moving keep looking keep imagining
because what you are needing can show up
and you have to be ready to look at it
and seize it
sometimes it’ll be really quick and it’s
gone you have to be ready but when
you’re in need in a major life
transition and you have a lot of emotion
driving you look around you might find
some love right there for yourself I
love it dr. Bernard thank you so so much
for pursuing this work and you know
really you’re you’re so credentialed I
love this book I can’t
recommend it more to anyone listening to
the show right now if you’re a fan of
the show you’re going to really truly
love this book dr. Bernhard where can
people find your work where can people
get to your website all of that please
the book is called connecting with
coincidence and its course that’s on
Amazon there’s an audiobook that you can
also get through Amazon I have a
Psychology Today blog so if you’re
interested if you’re sitting following
me in any way
just put connecting with coincidence in
your web browser and you’ll find my
Psychology Today blog you’ll find my
website you’ll find my book and you’ll
find my radio show perfect guys
wow what a show I mean I love these
episodes so much and we are spoiled
we’re truly spoiled with such such
amazing guests and such good shows the
book is called connecting with
coincidence dr. Bernard white men we
will you will make that link available
for you guys on the website make sure
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