Transcript for Episode 152 – Vishen Lakhiani – Conquering Fear, Defying Limitations, Living your best life.

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eventually that’s how mine belly started

at a certain point I quit Silicon Valley

and I became a meditation instructor in

New York City and pretty soon I realized

that if you want to go broke become a

meditation instructor

nationalism will die out in most parts

of the developed world by 2100 that’s my

prediction that’s one of the things that

mine valley is really excited about we

employ people from 46 different

countries and when we run our major

events like mine Valley University we

fly the earth flag there isn’t an

official earth flag so I want to push

the world to create one but that’s what

we associate with and then he gave me a

look I was expecting a look of pride I

was proud of proud about what I did but

he gave me that look that just kind of

said that’s really really really small

of you but it all came because this man

totally kicked my ass and got me out of

my comfort zone so all of these

experiments all of these new ideas that

I’m studying that I have hundreds of

people in the mine valley company

researching adapting getting out to the

world are all designed to break human

beings out of these shackles that these

lies put us in to awaken them to their

potential and get them to start doing

something about planet Earth I speak

about the concept of Brule’s rules be AR

ùl es is a short form for rules

and I give people ways to recognize the

rules of the world today my

self-esteem issue not believing I was

enough cost me millions upon millions

upon millions

of Dallas because I gave up so much to

someone else thinking I couldn’t do it


what’s up folks

Xavier ketsana here and Wow

we just finished our interview with mr.

vision Lackey on E which is you are

about to experience and I hope you enjoy

as much as I did vision is the founder

of MindValley

a company that has revolutionized the

systems of learning and meditation and

studies of consciousness the mission is

working so very hard on many different

things and I’ve got a grin from ear to

ear on my face right now because of how

great this interview came out so hope

you guys love it as much as I did

please find us on Twitter at the human

XP we’re the same on YouTube same on

Facebook we have launched a member

section the human xpcom slash members

pre-register and get yourself up HSP

membership because we’re going to going

to be collating all of the extra content

that we do all of these interviews that

you hear all the stuff that we don’t air

all of the learning that you’re going to

be able to experience and it helps us

sustain what we’re doing here with this

show we were also nominated for the

Weebly award which is a podcasting award

very very grateful for this nomination

so everyone listening to this broadcast

please put some good energy out there

for this nomination for us to win this

award thank you guys so much for


here’s it my guest fishin lucky on

the human experiences in session my

guest for today is mr. vision Locke

eonni who is making a reappearance on

the show his second time on the show

Bishan welcome back to hxp sir hey

Xavier it’s good to be back so vision

since the last time we spoke I believe

it’s been a year and a half it’s been a

long time the path the podcast has grown

so much I know what you have been doing

is grown so much

I think code of extraordinary mind went

like double triple platinum or something

like that right yeah you know it did

pretty well it was a New York Times

bestseller but what was really cool is

that about 18 months after the book came

out it took off on Amazon and so this

past November two months ago for about

three days in November it was the number

one book on Kindle globally and um that

was really really really exciting I

don’t know how it happened but as result

I got asked to write my second book so

I’m now in like deep busy planning mode

for that second book which I’m hoping to

get out in 2019 okay so now we have a

third interview set up already okay

sounds good okay there’s such a great

amount of knowledge with all of the

people that you’re touching and people

that you surround yourself with building

MindValley what year did you start mine


mine Bali started in a very very very

different way when we started in 2003 I

was it was a venture builder it was

basically just a registered company so I

could experiment with I was a programmer

I was coding and and putting out

different web apps I had the second

biggest social bookmarking engine in the

world after delicious now this was way

back in 2003 so it was doing a lot of

different things but mine belly as we

know it today which is a personal growth

Academy mine that took off

November 2013

what I’ve noticed about you through the

years as you know we’ve talked and

exchanged emails is you study things you

look at the way things work if I can say

you are obsessed with finding out the

intricacies of how something works and

then figuring it out for yourself like

deconstructing it and then

reconstructing it in your own way and

would you agree with this but Lounge Li

yes so tell us about that process like

what does that process like for you so

so to understand that process you got to

understand what’s driving it right from

the age of 14

my dad would give me personal growth

books to read from the age of 14 I was

reading all of these classic books like

psycho cybernetics the Silva method and

I got obsessed with understanding the

idea of human potential and when I went

to school I got really jaded I did not

love what I was learning in school I

became a computer engineer not because

so much I wanted to but because that was

what was expected of an Indian kid in

the 1990s right I ended up working for

Microsoft I ended up working for a

non-profit I did all of these odd jobs

but the idea of human potential always

mesmerised me and eventually that’s how

mine belly started at a certain point I

quit Silicon Valley and I became a

meditation instructor in New York City

and pretty soon I realized that if you

want to go broke become a meditation

instructor and so but I was happy for

five years I was really really really

happy just teaching meditation classes I

was bringing in you know little bits of

money and in 2008 I was running mine

Bali it wasn’t making hardly any money

and on the side I was teaching

meditation so I had this little company

building simple web apps trying to

figure out how to make money we had

about 15 employees and and on the side I

would fly to New York and fly to London

and teach meditation classes and then

one day I’m going to lunch in London and

I’ve been invited to lunch by Bob

Proctor so Bob Proctor was a very famous

speaker and author he wrote a bunch of

books on thinking big and goal-setting

and I had helped Bob build a website

right the previous year and so we were

touch and he was kind of a mentor he was

a big deal and he was doing a seminar in

London and he said hey you know if you

uh if you’re in town

stop by um come say hi to me over lunch

so I stopped by just to say hi to him in

that hotel lunchroom sure he asks me

what are you doing here in London and I

go well I’m here at Bob and I’m so proud

about what I’ve done I’m like I’m here

Bob to teach this meditation class and

you know there’s gonna be about 60

students and I’m probably gonna make

about 5 grand and Bob’s it did you fly

business class so coach and I go well

you know I can’t afford business class

it’s gonna be too expensive so I flew

coach and he says so wait you’re telling

me you flew coach 20 hours he left your

wife you left your kid to come to London

to teach a tiny little class for 60

people and this is what you’ve been

doing for five years vision vision

vision you’ve gotta think bigger and

then he gave me a look I was expecting a

look of pride I was proud of thought

about what I did but he gave me that

look that just kind of said that’s

really really really small of you

and this is what Bob Proctor says in his

books right and and I and at first I was

like pissed off but then I realized what

he was trying to get me to do and this

quote by bob is now on my facebook page

it’s been on my facebook page since that

month in 2008 and the quote is the

question is not are you worthy enough to

reach your goals the question is are

your goals worthy enough of you I heard

that from him that was the last month I

was teaching those tiny little

meditation classes I quit I just

completely quit that month and I decided

to ask myself how could I make a massive

massive massive freaking gigantic impact

on the world if I believe in this stuff

it’s my responsibility to get it out to

millions of people and that’s really

where that the genesis for mind Ali

started taking off and that’s when we

started the books we started mine we invented the quest

learning platform which is probably the

most sophisticated learning platform in

the world we started festivals around

the world two years after that encounter

with Bob I launched a fest which is now

mine Valley’s festival which had the

barely three six months when you get all

of these amazing speakers and it’s like

the TED talk of the personal growth

industry but it all came because this

man totally kicked my ass and got me out

of my comfort zone and so now the

question I asked myself every single day

is how can I make a massive global

impact to 1 billion people and awaken

these billion people to pure human

potential Wow I love that story so much

I love that segue it’s perfect into you

know these ambitions that that we all

have whether we’re entrepreneurs

building businesses or just simply

trying to transform our own personal

lives into something bigger or something

better for ourselves what in your

opinion is that thing which drives a

person to want to change the world and

then subsequently successfully change

the world

there is um there’s a couple of things


now the first is waking up to the fact

that we are living within a massive

massive massive series of lies so I’ll

tell you a funny story this week I

decided to go on a public campaign to

expose Nestle business practices in

Kuala Lumpur Malaysia and it started

because the New York Times did an expose

showing how Nestle which is an 80

billion dollar Swiss company was

basically funding the Malaysian

government research on health and

nutrition the Malaysian government’s

putting out some really really really

obsolete ideas on you know how to take

care of health how to control obesity

and as a result Malaysia which is the

country I’m born in is now the fattest

country in Asia and so I started

studying Nestle ingredients Nestle

advertising and I could see that there

is this massive lie being pushed out

where for example in Malaysia kids I

encourage to drink sugary beverages

sugary malt beverages in the morning

loaded with sugar because Nestle puts

out advertising saying you need to drink

this every single day to maintain energy

for school and it’s leading to one of

the one of the fastest rises in

childhood obesity in in decades um and

so I decided I needed to expose this

brought my team together and we decided

to do the research and get videos out we

put out a video last week that got

shared by 1.4 million people which is

huge given it’s just in Malaysia I

started being in 48 hours people were

stopping me in the streets and the

reason what drove me was actually I

guess no in the in the words of Dave

Logan righteous anger righteous anger

that so many false ideas about what it

means to be human is being put out in

the world let’s make a short list okay

there’s the pool idea from big food

companies about the food we eat not just

Nestle but coca-cola marketing

high-fructose cancer Optus happiness in

a red can vitamin water which is

marketing sugared water as something

that contains vitamins food companies

putting out this blatant amounts of of

unhealthy food leading to rise a massive

rise in global obesity and

a massive rise in diabetes in children

then there is the lies of corporate

world which is basically that you know

you gotta get a good degree work hard

get a job work from 9:00 to 5:00 check

and check out slave away so that someday

you can save up enough money retire in

your 60s and then enjoy the last few

years of life you have before you settle

into dust again a really dumb

idea of the way the world should

function but an idea that gets so many

college kids to go into massive amounts

of debt to get university degrees for

jobs that won’t be that they graduate

and you can go on and on and on there

are the lies about love they’re the lies

about aging there lies about longevity

there lies about the potential of our

mind and I found that the education

system just didn’t do enough to update

itself with the new research with the

new studies the education system

perpetrated McFly’s now where did I find

the truth I found it when I went off to

standard textbooks when I started

looking at what scientists researchers

top well top nutritionists top experts

in human potential Buddhist monks was

saying and when I started experimenting

with these things on myself very rapidly

I was able to do some really remarkable

things so for example I turned myself

and the people in my company which just

are around 300 people strong into guinea

pigs we are obsessed about experimenting

with new ways of becoming the most

powerful human beings we can be so that

that’s one but at the same time

experimenting with being human beings

who actually give a damn about other

human beings because you need both you

don’t want to be a powerful asshole you

want to be a human being who has the

inset the cognitive abilities to help

the energy to get out there and change

the world that do it so that you’re

creating a better world multiple

generations down so all of these

experiments all of these new ideas that

I’m studying that I have hundreds of

people in the mine valley company

researching adapting getting out to the

world are all designed to break human

beings out of these shackles that these

lies foot is in to awaken them to their

potential and

get them to stop doing something about

planet up yes yes yes I love efficient

love it love this vibe I don’t want to

spend too much time or energy on this

but you know if we just look at the

world the political system here in the

States or just everything that’s going

on in an excuse my language here but it

seems like the is now hitting the

fan and we are left just kind of you

know like wondering like what what

should we do it everyone is talking

about this everyone is just discussing

this everyone is horrified at the

direction that we are headed and it

seems as if there is a shift in human

consciousness happening as we speak

there is and it’s actually a shift that

people have predicted since the 1870s so

one of the things that gives me hope is

Darwin and actually I’m writing a short

book called Darwin’s hope let me tell

you what what Darwin said right so

Darwin wrote a book called sexual

relation says gosh Darwin’s book titles

was so complex that it was something

along the lines of sexual relations in

relation to man and animal species it

was written in 1972 that’s what I

remember now in that book Darwin wrote

about this really really really

interesting concept called diffusion of

sympathy now sympathy was basically you

know his way of saying compassion right

but what Darwin said is that

man he bolts and we get more advanced ah

sympathy for fellow man would extend

from just our family to our truck to

then all people of a nation and then

eventually it would break the boundaries

of nations and extend to people of

multiple nations and it would get bigger

and bigger and bigger until a sympathy

extended to people of all the planet

Earth and he said because we would start

to understand that this to our

evolutionary advantage that our sympathy

our care our kindness diffuses to all

human beings

now what Darwin was essentially talking

about here is the concept of world

centrism C integral theory says that 70%

of the world today is trapped in an

ethnocentric way of living and no

centric means these are good people

they’re kind people but their goodness

and kindness extends only to people of

their particular type meaning country

ethnicity religion and so on 30% of the

world has extent has evolved to world

centrism and we’ll centrist a means

their sympathy extends to people across

the world nowhere was this more common

than in Jimmy Kimmel two days ago when

Jimmy Kimmel brought up this this

Mexican family who was about to be

deported they were daca recipients and

you know because Trump is looking to

take away daca this this did this family

with a baby that was born in America

were about to be torn apart and then he

brought in a group of six Trump

supporters and the whole point of his

episode on Jimmy Kimmel it lasted about

maybe 13 minutes was to see if he could

convince the Trump supporters who were

meeting this Mexican family holding

their baby that maybe they should be

allowed to stay in the United States it

was very interesting seeing that both

sides were good people the Trump

supporters were good people they were

patriotic Americans but their kindness

could not bridge this artificial border

between America and non-americans they

kept seeing those that family as non

Americans and they’re saying that they

need to leave they need to leave they

need to leave as the mother was holding

the baby in her arms talking about how

she was here legally their response were

sorry you’re not officially a man

reckon you need to leave now that’s an

example of ethnocentrism now with your

ethnocentric congratulations you’re the

majority of people in the world today

you’re not bad but there is this

artificial barrier preventing your

compassion your kindness from extending

beyond this bubble now Darwin said that

these artificial barriers will start to

dissolve not only did he say that people

would expand their compassion to groups

of Nations and this is true it’s what

formed the European Union right but he

said that once learned this model would

trickle down to the children and

children in the next generation would

grow up seeing this as they are truth so

what Darwin was effectively saying is if

you look at the way the world is

accelerating go for a hundred years 200

years nations will disappear we’ll see

each each other as one planetary species

it will likely be an earth flag and

children born in that era will never be

able to think of a time when they our

parents actually fought amongst

Americans and not Koreans or Arabs and


it wouldn’t be conceivable it’s like

Greeks today thinking about when Sparta

and Athens and Thebes were at war with

each other right so that’s something

that gives me great hope yes the world

is kind of messy today but human

civilization doesn’t move in a straight

upward line it’s like the stock market

it goes up it goes down it goes up it

goes down and right now I think maybe we

took a little bit of a dip but I

actually believe this dip was necessary

it was a massive wake-up call and I

think what you’re going to see in the

next 50 years or so is the slow

dissolution of the idea of patriotism

and nation-states

nationalism will die out in most parts

of the developed world by 2100 that’s my

prediction that’s one of the things that

mine Valley is really excited about we

employ people from 46 different

countries and when we run our major

events like mine Valley University we

fly the earth flag there isn’t an

official flag so I want to push the

world to create one but that’s what we

associate with

Wow Wow missionary I love it man love

that you’re you’re you know

deconstructing Darwin there and you know

talking about the shifts in human

consciousness it’s it’s so important for

us to be aware of what’s going on in the

world but you know that old saying being

in the world but not of the world I

agree with you I think the world is

moving into this higher consciousness

and we did hit a sort of dip a type of

dip so what I wanted to ask you is you

know how do we have that strength in

consciousness in health how do we

protect ourselves against you know this

aspect of the world that is that is

harming us that is harmful well that’s

that’s essentially what I wrote about in

my book the code of the extraordinary

mind I speak about the concept for

Brule’s rules B R ul s is a short form

for rules and I give people

ways to recognize the rules of

the world today basically we got to

understand that we like a fish who is

swimming in water cannot see water

cannot recognize that there’s water

around him we as human beings are

swimming in what I call the conscious

cape and the conscious cape is this

massive collection of beliefs rules

habits rituals that come to us from

religion from media from a government

from our culture and we blindly follow

these rules not realizing that some of

these rules are absolute some

of these rules actually make sense now

to understand the difference you got to

understand the difference between

absolute truth and relative truth

absolute truth is this right we know

that if I take a rock and knock it

against my head it’s gonna be painful

that’s absolute truth right rocks are

hard they are painful you don’t bang

your head against rocks send us relative

truth relative truth is everything else

about human society you have to work

hard to make money socialism is a bad

form of government because it makes

people lazy we have one God and if you

pray X number of times per day this God

will maybe reap a blessings upon you you

have to get married to a member of the

opposite gender these are

forms of relative troop and the problem

is people don’t get that these are made

up even Darwin in his in his 1872 book

wrote about how once parents stopped

once parents basically start changing

the way they perceive the world and move

to a world a form of world centrism the

kids just pick it up because almost

everything that we think is a problem

with the world comes from habits beliefs

rituals that came to us from our parent

here I found the the exact text from

Darwin as soon as this book she was

honored and practiced by some few men it

spreads through instruction and example

to the young and eventually through

public opinion right so we spread these

lies generation to generation to

generation to generation to generation

and it’s up to us to cut the cord before

it gets to our children now let me give

you an example of what I mean by cutting

the cord so my kid I’ve educated him

when we watch television and we see

Kellogg’s breakfast cereal commercials

I’ve educated him on what those

commercials are actually doing based on

psychology so I’m like hey Haven you

know so Hayden’s ten he’s a really smart

kid and I tell him Hayden hey you gotta

learn about this thing called a trigger

of influence it’s something that

marketers use to get kids like you to

buy their their stuff let me tell you

what’s going on I’m here and then we

might talk about Sheldon these triggers

of influence um when he was seven years

old and we were driving back from an

event and it was Easter and he asked me

what is Easter about right I don’t tell

him what it’s about I tell him the

interpretation human beings have so I

say well a lot of human beings believe

in Jesus Christ Hayden you know who

Jesus Christ is from a historical

perspective they believed that this was

this celebrates the day he was

resurrected and when you speak to a

child like that and you don’t boss

relative truth as absolute truth the

child starts to question and we make

their own decision so headon replied by

saying but Dad you know in

he said two things that surprised me I

wrote about this in my book he said dad

you know I don’t think Jesus really came

back from the dead I think maybe they

just mistook another bearded guy for him

and I was whoa that that’s pretty bold

hidden that I was proud of it but then

he went on you see once you teach a

child to think like that you give them

freedom to start questioning everything

he went on and he said this and I don’t

know if I believe in God

maybe we just make him up so we can feel

good about ourselves and I was thinking

that’s exactly how I want my

seven-year-old to to to Google because

nobody can brainwash him advertising

can’t brainwash and religion can’t

brainwash him he can make up his own

decisions and so I would test him like I

asked him Kaden do you think the people

who illegally crossed the border from

Mexico to the United States should be

deported and his response was of course

not the human beings we gotta treat them

with kindness

who cares about borders it’s all

imaginary anyway right now he’s making

that up he’s not if he’s not watching

Fox News and having Fox News tell him

what is right he’s learned to question

everything but at the core there’s one

thing I teach hated there’s one thing

which I tell him is possibly absolute

truth and is something that you you want

to adopt as your core guide in principle

and that is Darwin’s diffusion of

sympathy I taught him about world

centrism about how human society evolves

from egocentrism to ed no centrism

to world centrism and that there’s a

level above that called cosmos centrism

which is where you care about all life

and you think multiple generation it’s

down so he uses that as his moral

compass everything else everything else

he’s allowed to question

hmm Wow Wow such a powerful story there

with Hayden and I love everything that

you’re saying man and this is this is

why you know we invited you back on the

show is because you and I have seem to

have this flow or we just riff off of

each other and we just it results in

something amazing and magical fish and I

I want to change gears a little bit and

I want to talk about vulnerability this

is something that I I’d like to test my

where my comfort zones are where my

barriers are if I feel uncomfortable by

something I want to know why why am I

having this reaction to something so how

do you respond to Varner ability comfort

zones how do you challenge that within

yourself see vulnerability the whole

idea of vulnerability is nothing more

than an idea in the culture escape now

let me tell you what what I mean by that

some scientists say that there are only

four basic human emotions right so

there’s this term I remember listening

to this in another really fantastic

podcast they were talking about this

term called interception

I believe it’s interception don’t quote

me on that but imagine if you could

listen to the sounds coming from inside

your body right you can because if you

could it would drown out everything else

I mean they’ll be the sounds of blood

flowing that your heart beating um your

kidneys your stomachs all of these would

make some sounds within your body so you

don’t pick these up through your

traditional five senses but you do pick

them up through a concept called

interception all listening within the

body and what you pick them up as our

emotions and there are only four basic

emotions in other words all emotions are

caused organically from what’s happening

inside your body now this is a very

scientific way of looking at it but

we’ll play with this for a moment and

they’re only four basic emotions there

is pleasant unpleasant arousal and calm

pleasant unpleasant arousal and calm

everything that we give a label to from

feeling authentic to feeling confident

to feeling jealous is really you can

think of these as as as little Venn

diagrams the intersection of pleasant

unpleasant arousal and calm and then the


that we were trained to slap on to it as

a child I’m just ordinarily vulnerable I

have a habit of not being in my comfort

zone but again we all process these

things differently I have Asperger’s so

because of that there are certain things

that normal people can deal with which I

can’t deal with – well it’s it’s um in a

way you could say I’m on the autism

spectrum right and so for example I

can’t read nonverbal communication I’m

very literal right and so a lot of

communication they say seven feet of

communication is nonverbal I can’t see

that bit so I tend to be very literal in

terms of the words that someone says so

because of that right I tend to be

naturally very authentic because I can’t

play with emotion or give hidden

messages now there’s a hard part too

that I never dated until I was like 22

because I couldn’t understand that whole

concept so this is where it’s hard for

me because I’m not neurotypical to even

answer your question in that way we got

to understand that we all have different

neurological diversity and many of us

process the world in different ways to

ask me a big tough question that’s what

we do here man is we ask the tough

questions and you know I love the

honesty and I love that that you are

authentic and you you do give you know

all of yourself to whatever you’re doing

right but but did you see what I just

did there I just became really authentic

and for the first time in a podcast

mentioned that I have Asperger’s and

that I’m on the autism spectrum

yeah right so that’s what I mean when I

was using your question to actually push

myself and see if I wanted to say this

publicly yes yes there’s no way your

question challenge me but the bet again

when you have Asperger’s you do process

human of the human beings in a different

way it doesn’t make you bad or good it’s

just that you see the world differently

so I hope that for your listeners that

was that gave them some value I’m

absolutely certain that that will reach

our listeners and thank you for sharing

that that is such a vulnerable moment

and thing to share very personal thing

to share on air here with us sufficient

you know I want to talk about

our thinking in our models of reality

and when I’m speaking to my clients or

when I’m when I’m on a coaching call or

when I’m speaking to a friend and

they’re in a negative cycle of thought

they’re in a negative worldview negative

reality it’s difficult for them to

escape out of that loop because they’re

still trapped in it is it’s a cycle it’s

a devastating cycle when you are

struggling the most when you vision are

having the hardest moment I want you to

think back to something recent where you

were struggling hard and you know you’ve

worked hard you generated all the

success for yourself and your business

is thriving and but you’re just having a

hard day it just seems like everything

is working against you

what do you go to in that situation in

that moment do you go to a perception of

God do you go to a perception of

something higher than yourself or do you

go to an inner power within yourself and

say well I created this how do you

perceive that how do you react to that

well firstly I am undecided on God I

believe that is the higher power my best

bet right now is that this higher power

is the mass collective consciousness of

all life on planet Earth and so every

decision I make takes that into

consideration and and I have a personal

belief that as long as the decisions I

make are supporting the help of this

life I’m gonna be taken care of so for

example I would never ever ever ever

ever start a company that was selling

junk food right I would never work for

coca-cola I would never take any money

from coke or Nestle or any company which

I feel is humanity plus and so that is

my religious practice I honor all life

now every now and then I will have

shitty days and when I have such shitty

days there are two things I do for

I remember the concept of kensho versus

Satori so Ken sure was a Satori’s is a

concept that Reverend Michael Beckwith

introduced to me Michael Beckwith is the

the Reverend at the agape spiritual

Center in Los Angeles it’s sort of a

universal Church for all religions and

it’s a really an amazing place to be so

he said there are two ways we grow we

grow true moments of awakening or we go

through moments of pain pain and

awakening they are both however simply

ways for us to grow so a Satori moment

is groped by awakening you have a sudden

insight and aha moment and you’re never

the same again in a Satori moment you

there is no pain you have an awakening

it’s the turning moment may come in the


it may come after a vacation it may come

during the vacation it becomes during

meditation it’s a sudden awakening but

we also go grow through kensho ken show

is groped by pain you fall into a bout

of bad help you’re checked into a

hospital and you come out realizing that

you got to take better care of your hell

it’s pain that led to growth that’s Ken

show or someone breaks up with you but

you realize what type of relationship

you really need to pursue that’s Ken

show Ken show is grow true pain so what

backwards said is this we grow through

life sometimes we’ll grow through Satori

and you can believe in whatever higher

power you want you can say that these

Satori moments are coming as a gift from

this higher power but by that definition

you can also say that Ken show moments

are a gift by this higher power

it’s this higher power kicking our butt

like a good parents night sometimes you

know be hard on a child to make that

child grow that’s what Ken show is now

when you understand this model even when

you’re going through a bad moment I ask

myself wow I wonder what I’m gonna learn

from this and so there are no bad

moments everything is a part to grow so

I found that Satori versus kensho that

simple framework of understanding life

is a really effective way to giving you

a means to jump out of negative moments

to jump out of these darker days that

might occasionally enter your life and

when I’m having a shitty moment I simply

go wow I cannot wait to see what’s at

the end of this and how I’m gonna grow

yeah yeah hundred percent I was thinking

about this last night I was thinking

about exactly what you just talked about

not kensho but the growth that we

experienced through pain and suffering

I’m a little bit younger than you and I

so I have set rituals and I’m a very

strategic person I look at things and

it’s a very it’s very much a methodical

plan for me so I have set rituals when I

encounter these moments where I’m I feel

that I’m suffering so my go-to things

are either the gym exercise or

meditation those two things if I can’t

sit still if I can’t calm myself down

and just breathe and meditate then I go

to the gym what I’ve found is that

through that release of that aggression

through that pain that we’re

experiencing can be this Eureka

enlightening moment that is explosive

that is so wondrous is such an all

moment I was thinking about this

yesterday it’s amazing that you just

brought this up so I want to wrap this

all Ben tie it with a bow and bring it

all back together so I want to talk

about we’re talking about a lot of big

things big ideas let’s bring it back

down to the smaller things something

that I notice is when I am volunteering

or when I am giving my time to others

when I am in service to others I feel a

sense of fulfillment with that that is

important to me what is something that

you do on you know a micro level that

gives you that same sense of fulfillment

or you know expression of joy

well well to me it is it’s working at

man Valley cuz what I did was I

structured a company to to to be a place

where people walk in and they say gosh

this is the happiest place on planet

everyone is lit up people are excited

everyone is crazy passionate about

health and wellness and meditation the

team is from 46 different country

countries the office space kind of looks

like Google but I designed this I wanted

to to make work my art my joy the thing

that drives me and keeps me happy all

day and so there’s nothing I love more

other than of course my kids and my wife

and everything nothing I love more than

just being in mine valley HQ and working

on these personal development programs

and experiments that we continuously do

yeah that’s a fair answer you know I

think there is an aspect of your

methodology which I respect sincerely

which is you know you seem to just take

something and you you look at it as

objective as you possibly can and

there’s nothing wrong with you know

going to work and building you know what

your passion is I want to bring up you

know someone listening to this

conversation they might look at

admission and say oh fishing you know

you have so much success I can never

accomplish that I could never do what

mine Bali has done this is too high of a

reach for me there’s no way I can ever

do that there’s no way I could ever

accomplish that what is happening with

that statement when someone makes that


one of the things that I teach it’s a

it’s a very well-known mind value

framework that I designed it’s called

the three most important questions it’s

about going deep into yourself asking

yourself three questions that get you to

set goals and visions for your life that

are independent of what the culture

scape pushes you to do so what I say is

that many people confuse means goals and

end goals for example two kids can be in

law school competing to see who would

get better grades so because you know

there’s a limited number of partnership

a law firm partnership jobs available

they want to see who’s gonna get the job

in that dream company but that’s

actually competing on a goal that isn’t

really a goal it’s a mean skull now what

you really want to do is identify the

end goals now end goals are goals that

truly lead to human happiness if you ask

people why do you want to be a lawyer

they’ll often say well you know law

being a lawyer means I’m gonna get one

of the highest entry-level salaries like

upon graduation and the next question is

well why do you want that high

entry-level salary and then you go well

because that way I can save up and

someday I can maybe travel the world and

buy this dream home and on the

beachfront in California

and now you’ve got into the end goals

they won’t travel and then you can ask

them about the home why do you want to

hold on a beachfront in California

because I want to wake up every day next

to the sea well that’s an end goal they

won’t travel they want to wake up next

to the sea and then the next question is

so why do you freaking wanna waste time

in law school why not just move to

Hawaii and find out but you can wake up

every day next to the sea because here’s

the thing when people chase mean schools

they are often blindly following rules

that society says they have to follow

but if they aren’t careful that it leads

to misery now I pick lawyer for a

specific reason

America has 5% of the world population

70% of the world’s lawyers and 50% of I

believe in a recent study 50% of female

lawyers in America are clinically

depressed clinically depressed you have

all of these people who have spent all

of this money getting a law degree

slaved away for almost a decade in terms

of work and study and that they now live

a life where they are clinically

depressed it’s because they were chasing

a mean school and not an end goal so

when we compare ourselves to others it

is often because we’re comparing mean

schools but when we do the three most

important questions which is designed to

get you to identify your end goals you

become your own work of art let me tell

you what this means okay so first the

three most important questions are what

experiences do I want in my life how do

I want to grow and the third question is

how do I want to contribute experiences

are things such as I want to create

great art and see people be lit up

because of my art own experience might

be I want to have the experience of

being able to hold a baby in my arm an

experienced plant you I want to wake up

every day next to this man a woman

actually love an experience might be I

want to live by the ocean and be able to

meditate listening to the ocean every

morning those are experiences those are

goals a law degree not a goal or any

type of degree unless getting the degree

itself is the experience but that’s rare

so that’s the first thing experiences

now the second list that you want to

make is how do I want to grow people

forget that growth is a goal in itself

right we gain in

credible satisfaction and happiness from

growing learning a new language for the

sake of learning a new language not to

pass some exam studying something new

learning how to create art learning even

learning entrepreneurship for the sake

of learning how to think like an

entrepreneur if you enjoyed that

learning that’s an end goal now the

final bucket is contribution and this is

very important it’s to you know the

Dalai Lama said if you want to be happy

make other people happy so contribution

means you set goals for how you want to

give back to the world now when you do

this exercise when you bypass the means

goals you go straight for the end goals

you ask yourself what experiences do I

want how do I want to grow how do I want

to contribute and you make these three

bucket lists you stop comparing yourself

to others see most people live life like

they are a piece of paper and a

photocopy machine they’re not original

they are photocopy and a photocopy and a

photocopy and a photocopy and a

photocopy of every other life out there

but when you start forgetting the means

goals and going straight to the end goal

you become a painting you become an

original work Hawk your life becomes a

work of art I was talking to Don Miguel

Ruiz once you know the famous writer of

Mars free of love it’s or agreements and

he said I asked him what does toltec

mean because all his books are based on

this thing called Toltec wisdom and he

says to be at Alltech is to be an artist

and you want to live life like your life

is your work of art and art is never


Wow what is what a powerful powerful way

to begin to wrap this up and in the

process of you know building MindValley

all the things that you’ve had to

crossed all the hurdles was there a

single defining moment for you that you

can say this decision changed the course

of mine valley and what I was doing and

and I know you shared this story earlier

but was it was there another time or

moment where you had to make a choice

and that choice resulted in either a

large amount of success or even a large

amount of regret work well well you know

when I first started I didn’t think I

was smart enough I didn’t think I could

do it on my own so I had the company for

a year and I gave up a large chunk of

the company to a friend from college who

was like top student in my university

and you know I had a lot of respect from

him he was a really smart guy Stanford

MBA and after around 5 or 7 years of

working together I realized that we

couldn’t work together but the problem

is he won’t half the company

so I had to buy him out I had to go in

debt of all years my self-esteem issue

not believing I was enough cost me

millions upon millions upon millions of

dollars because I gave up so much to

someone else thinking I couldn’t do it

and you know the year after I bought him

out and I took over the reins of the

company that was a fastest growing year

we drew 70% that year and I realize how

much that feeling that that feeling of

low self-esteem had cost me in life and

I think that was really my most painful

point and my biggest realization

Wow that is a very big one man I really

appreciate that if there is anyone

listening to this and and there’s

anything that you would like to share

anything that maybe comes up to you in

your mind or anything that you think

that our listeners might want to hear or

something something that someone knows

your work and has found your work and

has studied your work for a while if

there was one thing that you could share

with them what would be that one share

that you would would tell them well the

one thing I would say which which I

think would be of great use to people is

Google Google the three most important

questions I think there’s tons of videos

and stuff on it out out there on the web

I bet there’s even a video from me that

that’s on YouTube that explains the

process and I really recommend that if

there’s one thing you do after this

podcast if you like the content I shed

try that exercise it’s changed a lot of

lives it’s being used in schools in

India it’s being used in corporations

across the United States a lot of

teachers have adapted it and the

beautiful thing about it is it really

works and I even put up a course on it

free online Bally’s quest app so if you

download mine Valli quest which is our

app you can take a 17-day course just

five minutes a day where you answer

these questions and it kind of goes a

little bit deeper but that course is

called extraordinary by design

completely free it’s just something I

wanted to give out because a lot of

teachers use this to help train

teenagers to think about their life in a

right way but really this was designed

for myself it was something I designed

for myself that just took off and I hope

you get a chance to experience it

Bishan I love having you on the show man

I love the the conversations that we

have it gets bigger and better and I

just I love it

vision where can people go to find mine

valleys just mind valley calm where do

people go to find your work well just go

to mind Valley Kong and I I think all my

courses so I used to have a lot of

personal growth classes online I

actually made my two biggest courses

free just because I wanted to get it out

to people go to mine really calm there’s

a lot of information out there but also

download the mind valley quest app mine

Valley West qu est s click on discover a

lot of a lot of my programs up there and

they’re completely free free to go true

and quest is just a really beautiful

learning experience perfect and are

there any events cuz I know mine Valley

has a lot of different events that are

coming up are there any events coming up

that you want to plug so I’m looking to

reinvent University so I have a new

model called mine Valley University

which is a university model which is not

four years in a bubble it’s one month

every year of 48 years and you can learn

about it on mine /u us in the

letter U it’s happening in Tallinn

Estonia this July and I think some of

you guys who are listening might find it

really interesting go check it out on

the web mind alie you

guys this is such an amazing interview I

hope you get as much as I got out of

bringing vishen back on we’re definitely

gonna have him back on again when his

next book releases please get to mine to find more visions work and

I think you’ll get a lot out of it we

are going to get out of here thank you

guys so much for listening this is the

human experience my name is Xavier


you will hear from us next week

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