welcome to the human experience podcast

the only podcast designed to fuse your

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we are the intimate strangers thank you

for listening ladies and gentlemen

welcome we’ve got a phenomenal program

planned for you this evening we’re gonna

be talking to doctors Fiorella Terenzi

her work revolves primarily around

astrophysics so sit back grab a drink

and enjoy this conversation the human

experience in session

my name is Xavier katana my guest for

this evening is dr. Fiorella Terenzi

pure electrons he is an astrophysicist

musician and author

Fiorella attained her doctorate from in

physics from the University of Milan she

developed the idea of using sound

technology to convert radio waves from

galaxies into audio form that might give

us new insights about space in

humanity’s place in the universe she’s

been described as a cross between Carl

Sagan and Madonna by Time magazine her

work has seen her appear in a variety of

media outlets including CNN the sci-fi

channel NPR History Channel Wall Street

Journal Time magazine the list goes on

and on and on and now she’s here with us

on the

experience Fiorella it’s a pleasure

thank you for making the time to be here

welcome to hxp

thank you it’s a pleasure to be here

with you ela I mean there’s there’s so

much accreditation to your work and

everything you’ve been doing but for

anyone that might not know who you are

if you could just give us a short

introduction about you know who you are

what you do please I am an

astrophysicist a scientist was moved by

an artistic sensibility also a recording

artist and an author and my interest is

to combine a creative art performance

are the music with traditional science

education and the goal is to keep on

looking up being inspired and

enlightened yeah I love that I mean so

where did this start for for you as far

as astronomy and an education I mean I I

think it was I think I read that it was

someone close to your grandmother and

your grandmother introduced you to the

night sky outside of Milan right yes

that’s that’s correct I think I was

around the 5 or 6 years old and during

summer time I was with my grandmother

outside Milan she didn’t know anything

about stars or galaxies or black hole

but she had a beautiful imagination so

during the night time we were going for

a walk up to the full moon to some star

some constellation that she didn’t know

but with her imagination she was able to

transport me she’d make me feel at the

center of the universe she created the

fable and stories about the stars that I

still carry with me these days

ok that sounds amazing I mean what was

what was one of the stories that she

told you about the stars a couple of

things was about a couple of things I

will always remember was the stellar bit

of this stellar heart pulsating with

mine after 20 years when I became a

student and I was doing my doctorate I

kept calling the pulse ours

these are pulsating stars at the stellar

heart of the cosmos because I still

remember that the feeling of a looking

up and any day

it did happen I did a feel I did a felt

that is a heartbeat beating with mine I

felt these eyes of the universe of other

stars and galaxies looking at me I felt

empowered and I felt a humble because he

was a really a big space out there of

course I mean the universe is such a

huge huge place so you know astronomy

and then radio wave music and how did

you connect these two dots seems like

two very separate worlds to connect you

know science and art but they were a

separate world for me too because I grew

up you know singing in the church then I

was studying music at the conservatory

Oh in Milano during the popular courses

in the evening so during the day think

about I was in the physics department

talking about astronomy astrophysics

radio astronomy and in Denis evening I

was a studying music composition opera

singing so the concept came together by

coincidence it wasn’t really by taking

the opposite like a radio astronomy and

music at the same time that I found a

key to translate the radio waves into

sound okay okay so don’t stop there

please what was the key that you found

when you collect the radio waves from

galaxies using radio telescope

specialized unten a big satellite dish

antenna of several metre in diameter

these radio waves are from space from

galaxies arrived to earth with an

intensity you know very loud

soft and also with a frequency the

frequency of the radio galactic waves

are very very high think about we are

talking about the billions of vibration

per second now think about what is a

musical note when we tune our instrument

on the musical note a it’s a 440 Hertz

of vibration so it’s a 440 vibration of

per second so a musical note like a

radio waves from space have bought the

intensity and frequency so basically I

could decode radio waves as a sound and

then on to music but it was by doing

opposite things that really I was able

to find something unique and interesting

and that is a lesson from the universe I

was a keep in mind and I always a remind

my student as I teach at Florida

International University in Miami to

really express yourself don’t think that

if you want to be a comedian you cannot

be a chemist if you want to be a model

an actor or you can also be a geologist

go for it because a new way a new

journey will be shown to you you will

discover a new path ok so what you’re

telling your students is that even

though whatever you’re passionate and

you can’t you should explore those

things even if they’re in completely

different areas yes I think it’s very

important because we have been trapped

in these believing belief that black and

white

science is not art left and right brain

and I always felt that this division was

a little bit too artificial at least for

me it was a little bit too limiting and

even today every single day of my life i

shattered stereotype of a scientist

because

I’m not like an Albert Einstein

caricature I’m not like that so as I do

it as I’m able to do it

I hope my student and everybody’s

listening will do it a to just get on

the journey follow what you like even if

they seems to totally opposite even

martial art and music you will find

something in common because everything

will come together in your life at a

certain point okay yes so it’s not that

you know it’s it’s not that old saying

of jack of all trades master of none

it’s it’s you can truly master

you know these things as long as you

have some sort of connection or passion

or link or intuitive link to them the

key of mastering is a perseverance trust

me to become an astrophysicist that you

need at least 20 or 30 years of solid

concrete study in the science and also

to be a musician

it takes time in life to find things so

persevere keep on going and something

will happen I love that I mean it and

but it’s it’s also really just putting

the work in like you said I mean it took

so many years for you to gain this

accreditation of being enough an

astrophysicist you know so you have to

be willing to do the hard work that

comes with with it right

correctly it is a hard work especially

the science especially the stem at the

science the technology engineering

mathematics field I mean it’s difficult

stuff that’s why we need to change also

the way we are teaching we need to make

this amazing science concept

entertaining enthralling they have to

become part of the life of our student

and our listener because the science is

a really beautiful concept but imagine

sometimes a physics lesson how boring it

could be how difficult how this

it could be that’s why we lose so many

young mind yeah I could see that you

know I could see how how boring physics

could get and that I guess that that’s

part of what makes you such an amazing

teacher I’m just hearing the resonance

in your voice so let’s let’s talk about

acoustic astronomy because I mean the

could you say that

music is the language of nature could

you say that I would say vibration is

the language of the universe

absolutely vibration so vibration so

everything is vibrating and and and you

are able to assign a musical note to

these vibrations these calculations

everything is vibrating everything

flickers in and out the reality you see

is not a continuous is made of quantum

even your atoms in every body are made

by quantum so it’s an intriguing reality

that we are facing my work in astronomy

started by doing audio fication or

sonification of radio waves from space

to tell you the truth at the very

beginning I call it the radio

computer music astronomy because for the

first time I combined a computer music

with the radio astronomy then the name-o

was a too complex so I switched to

acoustic astronomy but when I did my

research in 1987 at the University of

California San Diego at the computer

audio Research Laboratory I was able to

work with sound synthesis language

computer music was the very beginning

you know the computer for the first time

was able to synthesize a violin sound

which then led to the the synthesizer

that you have with a major music company

today just to name a few Roland or a

Yamaha but for me that the digital

oscilloscopes

that the computer music software was a

key to interpret not a violin and not an

arp but the radio waves from the

universe’ so what I did was a

straightforward feeding radio waves at

billions of Hertz into the gigahertz

straight into this a softer sound

synthesis language call it the sea music

was written in C was a created by

Professor Richard Moore at the UCSD and

the sound the synthesis language sends

out sound of the celestial object in

question okay okay how does it do that

there is a generation function in sound

you oscilloscope or that the create the

sound and then you have an intensity of

the celestial waves that they give you

loud or sow softer intensity on the

sound and then you have the frequency

the frequency was a little bit of a

problem because we are again into the

billions of thirds and remember that the

human can only hear sound between a 20

up to 20,000 Hertz so to make the story

straight to the point

there is an algorithm that takes 1

billion Hertz down to 1,000 Hertz for

instance so everything basically is a

shift down in frequency very much like

in one of the episode of Star Trek I

don’t remember the name but in this

older Star Trek I saw it on TV

Captain Kirk they were hearing this very

very fast buzz and that they were

slowing down until they were able to

detect the voice and someone talking so

very much similar to what is the process

of acoustic astronomy absolutely

fascinating I was intrigued by this okay

so so let’s say let’s say that we are

trying to pick a target that we’re going

to sample or record the radio waves of

and then and then turn into music you

chose a galaxy specifically called as

UGC six six nine seven right correct so

how far how far is that away I mean what

are the different things that we need to

calculate when we’re turning this into

music the galaxy is at 180 million

light-years away just to answer to your

question so the radiation that they are

arriving on earth from this galaxy UGC

six six ninety seven they belong

basically to the Jurassic time on earth

so they left the galaxy 180 million

light-years away

ago and it took them at that time to

arrive on earth so they are extremely

ancient they are extremely old you know

when we look up to the universe we look

to the past yeah I remember when I when

I got my first telescope years ago and

remember pointing it at I think it was

here Saturn or Jupiter

I think Saturn and and I remember seeing

the Rings and it just it blew me away to

be able to look into this you know this

little scope and and see a planetary

body that was in our solar system and

then I years later I got a bigger

telescope as one would do if you’re

studying the Stars right and and I

remember finding my first galaxies and

and acknowledging just realizing that

this light is taking this long to reach

the retina in my in my eyes correct

which for me was was a mind-blowing

thing to think about

yeah it’s actually a very good example

for my student I used the example of the

Sun the light that arrived at the URI

Tina every day

he’s already older is already an 8

– nine minutes older what does it mean

that if the Sun exploded right now we

have time to go for a cup of coffee you

will not know that the Sun is gone you

will have to wait those eight to nine

minutes now think about when you go to

the edge of the universe now you’re

looking farther back at the 15 14

billion years ago because of deaths at

the edge of the limit at the limit of

the universe is where you know we are

looking at the source where was the Big

Bang the origin the farther you go in

the universe the older are this a

celestial object so so fear Allah I mean

when you when you’re gonna say something

sorry no I wanted to you ask me

something about the sound of the galaxy

I wanted to make sure that the procedure

is a clear because once these radio

waves come arrive on or that they go to

a radio telescope they go to a computer

they goes they go to a software there is

a deduction in frequency what do you

obtain is an audio output I call it a

more sound or maybe a better name should

be noise random noise because all this

radiation are created by random

phenomena they are not well modulated

alike music so the music as an

interpretation of this random sound from

this galaxy

came later on when I took this random

sound and I said to the piano and I

heard an intonation

I heard the b-flat I heard the D minor

intonation I over the same musical notes

which then became the inspiration for

the music I composed them but if you go

on my research website acoustic

astronomy at the Florida International

versi

you will hear many many celestial object

pulsars

stars son the Big Bang and there is not

music there I mean if for the music that

we think music is they are all random

static sound from the universe that’s

how the universe express itself for the

moment if we will find in the universe

something very rhythm very well

modulated then we have to talk about

some intelligent civilization because

except for pulsars they are like cosmic

drama in the universe they keep a

precise a temple except the four poles

are most radiation from the universe

it’s really random noisy static mmm-hmm

you know so that’s a great moment I

think I’m just gonna play about ten

seconds not very long at all just a few

seconds of just to give people an idea

of what it kind of sounds like because

when I heard it for the first time it

didn’t sound like anything I expected

okay so here is and I’m not sure if

you’re gonna be able to hear this or not

if you’re Fiorella but the audience will

and this is your track called neo any oh

okay new it’s music okay if you want to

play for for our audience raw galactic

data you have to use a collision aside

Ariel grass the plasma waves okay okay

so we’ll go with collision then okay

okay here is collision and this is what

it sounds like here goes

[Music]

okay I mean it’s really really

fascinating it’s it’s really unlike it’s

very Spacey kind of spooky you know and

it doesn’t it kind of kind of puts you

on edge a little bit right

it does it does it’s they are powerful

sound they are able to evoke they

provoke even reaction sometimes the

galaxies get a little bit more quiet so

you can maybe meditate and relax but

otherwise a lot of celestial objects are

pretty pretty energetic I would say you

know if you’re Allah I’m really curious

when you’re looking up you know up there

have you found anything that you know

seemed unusual alien life you know

objects that you thought you just don’t

make sense I mean is there any

connection to that I mean there’s

there’s a lot of conspiracy theories

about aliens stuff like that ever

encounter anything like that before

I haven’t encountered any alien – bad

dog I’m looking I’m looking for I mean

the universe is so big why I mean why is

it seems so empty

probably it’s from our point of view

it’s a limitation in our technology to

the Kepler telescope is only capturing a

very narrow sample of planet of nearby

planet in the Milky Way galaxy nearby

where we are it’s not capturing 100% of

the Milky Way is capturing like probably

even less than 1% so is an arrow it’s

still a very very very narrow database

that we are I don’t remember how many

but you know these are EXO planet this

planet around the other star they are

still in the few hundreds I don’t even

know if we are up to a thousand so it’s

a small sample we have a limited

technology plus the reason that

I’m problem the problem if another

civilization is across the Milky Way

galaxy it will takes a hundred thousand

years to receive ello we are here I mean

that’s a major issue right because it

takes light so much time to travel such

a vast distance how are we gonna know if

it’s there right you know right now that

that’s so going back to your question

that what is unusual unusual for me to

see a universe that seems to be designed

for zero communication it feels like we

are an isolated experiment to me but

this is you know using you know my

imagination sometimes I think about this

impossibility to talk to another

civilization because of this novel I

named it

Wow I mean that it boggles my mind

because you know I really want us to

encounter you know alien life at some

point it just seems like a natural

progression in the human you know

evolution of things and it seems like

the planet here is in big trouble and we

need to eventually you know venture out

into space to have a back-up plan you

know to save our species and we will we

will but now don’t be discouraged too

because probably MRSA I hope so

we’ll reveal life not intelligent life

not technologically advanced life but

you know single-cell microorganism

you will not find an elephant or giraffe

look-alike on Mars but you will find

life on Europa also very very very high

probability for life Titan so we may

find life in the solar system mm-hmm do

you think that our definition of what is

sentient what we define is as life could

be so far from

sort of our ability to conceive or think

about you know what’s what’s out there

what’s really out there that you know

we’re not we’re just not seeing it you

know maybe it’s a pure energy instead of

I mean there’s no matter involved but

it’s sentient and it’s it’s alive it’s a

great question and yes I think you’re

right there is also that possibility

that life is something totally far away

from what we know it and look at what is

happening to us a human kind we are

transferring everything on the web so in

the future in the near future I will be

an avatar you will be living in the

Internet forever if something happened

to Planet Earth we are gonna live

forever in eternity if we can keep alive

our computer right or our network are

you following me so imagine an alien for

me that arrived how how they’re gonna

think about the worldwide web as a

storage for us humankind experienced

able to communicate because probably we

will become intelligent avatar we will

become intelligent digital formal able

even to taste the chocolate and ice

cream so indeed probably even some

intelligent life form a may have evolved

into something that we can’t even

imagine let me add something though that

I like to talk about alien and I

explained on my interview on ancient

alien on the History Channel

that probably we are alien yeah look

yourself in the mirror and we are right

we where do we come from another star

how do we get here as amino-acid the

board of a comet we were just the plain

amino acid frozen in this comet

collision with planet

in here we are doing the interview

tonight it’s quite a jump right but I

mean I mean I’m surely you know what you

know cross-species contamination like

let’s say you take a lizard from South

America and you transport it illegally

over to Africa and you drop it you know

because of its natural advantages you

know to other species it’s gonna

decimate you know the ecology of Africa

right so look if you look at the way

humans are in their natural equilibrium

to ecology there is none you know that

we decimate everywhere we go we just

sort of consume it and you know and then

if you look at like a hard winter I mean

you’re not you’re not quitting until a

hard winter so yeah I agree with you

agree that you know we we are the aliens

yeah we are the invasive species

absolute yes yes

so go on so alien exist I exist we exist

we are the aliens probably I do believe

so

and sometimes I wish I could have that

memory I wish my atoms in my body could

have the memories or when we were near

that star wouldn’t be that great you

remember all the star we have been true

because our son is not here for longer

and the insight of our son before the

were many more stars so before our son

was born there were a big supergiant

star that detonated and recycle into the

Sun as we know it today but you know of

course the atoms they don’t keep

memories so we can get there with our

imagination and fantasy however yeah but

it’s fun to do that right it makes it

really entertaining and exciting right I

mean what about what about our own solar

system I mean if if the moon is you know

if we if we went to the moon I’m still

not sure about this like if we went

there why isn’t there a base

well haven’t we colonized the moon we

should have done this already right I I

think so we should either even you know

have baby in space see how in zero

gravity we are evolving I am not sure

what happened to the moon I know there

are a lot of experts that it will happen

there are some plan to at least in on

mask I’m sure is thinking about that

right yeah sure I mean how would you get

past the valve in Allen radiation belt I

mean isn’t that it’s almost like a

quarantine type system there’s so much

radiation bouncing off what is it the

magnetosphere right in my cases but you

know we weren’t a pastor that so we have

the key to pass through that and a

colony on the moon will be the next

logical step at least for my point of

view also because I’m entering middle

age or so to be in a less gravity

environment that would be beneficial to

my knees and spine but yeah I mean it

makes it just makes perfect sense to use

the moon as a jump-off point to anywhere

else we go all of our resources I mean

all the resources we could ever need or

want are in outer space that’s where

they are so why we’re still here I mean

if we’ve actually been there and I you

know you said there’s a key to getting

through the the Van Allen radiation belt

what is it you know what is the key in

just shielding that radiations it is a

shielding absolutely yes remember we

have a spacecraft in orbit around the

Jupiter which has a much much more

powerful radiation zone around has a

much more powerful magnetosphere than

planet Earth so we can go through that

we can go shielding we have a shields we

have the technology we have a new new

type of material I don’t see that being

a problem the problem is probably

resources I think the next step maybe an

international effort or like the

internationals

station is being yeah yeah

fear Allah I’m curious if you know you

know do you know Nikola Tesla is surely

you know so you know sure what happened

there in our own history I mean it was

maybe a hundred years ago a little bit

more than a hundred years ago I mean he

was presenting a technology that could

have pulled you know what was he doing

exactly who’s pulling energy from you

know this etheric space or something

like that you know I’m not super

familiar in detail with the Tesla but

yes his focus was on electricity and the

transfer of the energy works and correct

without any material correct through the

ether through the empty space or through

hair so it was a pretty advanced we

never got there all got interrupt and

got stopped and but I’m not sure about

the mechanism why what happened in his

life so I mean wouldn’t things be

interesting if we were using a

technology that didn’t rely right now on

fossil fuels I mean we supposedly hit

Peak Oil I think in the 90s I mean they

were talking about that in the 90s that

we had reached you know the peak period

of all the oil on the planet so you know

it seems like time is running out I mean

right now in the news the Amazon is

burning I’m not sure you’ve heard about

this yet yes it’s tragic

so it seems like humans you know like

the earth will survive climate change

humans may be point zero zero nine

percent of us or something will survive

you know not many yep well what what we

are saying these days is what physics

teaches us that there is no system that

can keep on growing and growing and

growing in other words there is a no

planet that continuously can generate

tons and tons and food for of food the

tons and tons

our fossil fuel is impossible that type

of growth to infinity infinity is

impossible so you’re seeing a system our

planet is starting to manage in breaking

down so so I mean what are what are the

solutions I mean it just seems like you

know if if population continues to

increase the way it is and you know

we’re consuming the resources that were

consuming at the current rate and that

is supposed to double by 2050 so I mean

it seems like we’re just taking more and

more from the planet and not putting

anything back I mean who I mean Elon

Musk seems to be very motivated on

creating fossil free energy you know

this so how do we come up with a

solution for this mega problem it is it

is the biggest problem that we’re

currently facing you’re right I I don’t

have a great answer I’m thinking about

you know elect electricity I’m thinking

about the nuclear I’m thinking about the

solar energy most likely nuclear has to

be handled with care no I mean yeah

because nuclear energy is dirty energy

right I mean there’s there’s waste that

comes from it there’s there’s all kinds

of danger if you’re not you know if

there’s a there’s a rupture or leak

you’ve got massive problems yeah it’s

the B handle with care’

but it could be I mean I wish we could

have the power of our Sun that is doing

hydrogen fusion every single day and we

should we could the fuse do that

hydrogen fusion but we can’t we cannot

do it because we cannot achieve at the

temperature of the Sun that would be a

that could be a solution maybe we are

going to harvest at the Sun as for

energy and once we depleted the Sun we

are gonna go into Alpha Centauri the

next near star I’m just thinking out

loud right now I mean so so if you know

if these other beings exists let’s say

aliens exist and they’re aware of

you know would they regard us I mean

because we’re still at war with each

other

I mean we’re we still have people who

are homeless we’re still dealing with

poverty we still you know fight over

religion politics I mean we don’t seem

really that advanced I mean if I mean

I’ve always think I always think about

if aliens you know if if you’re an alien

being and you’re floating around space

and you think hey let’s go on vacation

there’s no alien that’s saying hey let’s

go on vacation on earth like there’s no

alien that’s saying that you know you

don’t think that ever because it seems

so turbulent you know it seems like we

have a lot of problems so you know do

you think other beings could regard us

as primitive we’re just too primitive to

contact probably probably I would say so

I’m still amazed that we still use

propulsion as a way to move around and

that is a pretty primitive I’m still at

the same time I do believe in the human

kind I do believe in this potential I do

believe it like you saying the human

experience

I do believe it there is a great side of

our mind and we need to tap into that

has a have more faith maybe be less

negative help each other stay together

because I think about in one way our

consciousness got better even with the

user smartphone now we are more social

now we can have our own radio show now

we can voice what we think much better

now we can tweet right away an opinion

so I think we are coming together I

think there is a there is a something

that is a pulling you money together and

we desert together now so we will be

able to properly solve and get a better

environment a better society for the

future i I do I have a great fate a

human being to tell you the truth I mean

I think you nailed it I think you said I

think you know it would

require us to unite in some way to

collectively address this problem and I

think even Ronald Reagan had a had a

speech because in the eighties and he

said you know we need a common threat

and an external threat like an alien

threat it’s very ominous I’m in a speech

that he gave but I mean it’s true I mean

if we if we have a common problem that

maybe unites us like the planet dying

where we have no choice but to but it

seems like you know people people wait

until it you know it’s directly

affecting them you know I I’m not near

the Amazon so you know I don’t feel the

smoke I don’t smell it you know so it’s

it’s true at the same time even you know

the water problem we are more aware at

the same time we have a more information

today

so we I mean all you man it on this

planet is aware that you know saturated

fat are not good so it really then it

comes down to your decision of what you

put in your mouth because that the

information is there right so I do

believe we we are getting better we are

not perfect but we are on the way to

find a good way to collaborate also

because there is no other choices or to

tell you the truth otherwise in an

asteroid will arrive on earth one like

like the dinosaur that seems like it’s

just that that’s the direction you know

like if if we don’t figure something out

eventually I mean I I think I read that

it and then use a couple weeks ago there

was there’s an asteroid that that went

just by earth and it was pretty large

large enough but it just missed us yeah

yeah quite a lot of quite constantly now

we see more of them because we have a

more technology so we can pinpoint them

in the past there was more or less the

same percentage of asteroid but now we

can see them we can trace and awfully we

are going to be able to deflect them

if they are on a collision course

without this planet so that’s the power

of technology and they look how fast

that is that technology is going it’s

really going exponentially its

accelerating and expanding like our

universe so sometimes you know there is

a such a big parallel between the

universe and everyday life a technology

in acceleration like our universe

accelerating in expansion was there

anything that you saw in space that sort

of mystified you something maybe a

little bit bizarre strange that just

puzzled you a little bit actually the

reason you know quite a lot but the most

important is the most important that I

think about it daily is how the universe

maximized a good coincidences the there

is a high probability for two atoms in

the universe to come together and

collide so even if a most space is empty

it is a two atom will find a way to

collide and they create a star and then

planets and here we are again tonight so

there is an optimization or good

coincidence happening I mean a look at

even tonight that we are talking how did

it happen

what was the coincidence that brought us

tonight in this dialogue so are you

saying that it’s like a sort of cosmic

butterfly effect today you’re talking

about like you know one someone

something like that somebody’s a

maximization of good coincidence so

things happen I mean if you could you

know go on explain a little bit further

you know what you mean okay I understand

two atoms mostly in empty space it’s

probably unlikely that two I’d add Ammar

gonna collide you know it’s not not the

usual thing so what other things you did

you notice the other coincidence

about your mom how many eggs had in her

ovaries hundreds hundreds and hundreds

of eggs yet it took one one good

coincidence of one good spermatozoa and

there you are and you were born so even

in conception is a maximization of

coincidence that’s the first time I’ve

thought about my mom’s ovaries it’s you

know okay so you know I get your point

there’s there is a you know there is a

beauty you know there’s a there’s

something graceful about the way the

universe operates and I mean I have to

ask I know you’re a hardcore scientist

do you believe in God I actually do not

in the god with the beard but I do

believe in some organizing power okay so

we could call it like source or

something like that like a source yes

you there is some there is something

that escaped my reasoning and it escaped

my new run about this universe and this

is something these organizing power

these a source can’t be reached by

thoughts can it has to be reached some

other way it may be art you need to go

past this reality and that where I think

these organizing power how this universe

is structured even the law of physics

that is a principle I see every single

day my telescope are the same principle

that act on my life every single day and

what’s funny is that it is a principle I

seen the universe cannot be broken they

work everywhere and when you try to

break them you only break yourself

because a gravity is a law cannot be

broken

okay okay so let’s get let’s let’s step

back a little bit to what you said about

you know reaching this point of source

you said you said that we have to reach

it by going beyond reality yeah

beyond our thoughts I mean I think these

are these organizing power these are our

that from being this energy that from

being pure energy become a matter

there’s a source that is unmanifested

and then become a manifested cannot be

known by our thought I believe can’t be

known by scientific data and measurement

I think it lies in a different dimension

that is not the brain dimension the

brain the analytical brain the

computational brain the data I think I

don’t know how to access it at all we

don’t know how to access its beyond that

dimension it could be via art you don’t

know maybe some artists I saw some

painters they were painting galaxies we

don’t even know it some musician

probably were even composing the sound

of space you just played for our

listener there is a dimension that we

are not able to tap into or if we tap we

go in and outer so we cannot grab it

that’s why I just have to believe it

that there is an organizing power but

according to what I see I think the

reason so I do believe in God

fascinating you know I’ve had a lot of

scientists on the show and Fiorella this

is this is fascinating I’m loving this

conversation I really find your your

openness to these concepts you know

really engaging it’s really refreshing

to hear you know someone that is

that is done the work and put this math

into all this to you know sort of

entertain these theories at least you

know and give them a chance well let me

run by to you a couple of idea then okay

please because I’m collecting them a

photo for a book I love to year what do

you think so do you feel like you’re

always a transforming and evolving like

the universe yes so there you have it or

so you have the same quality do you

think that you as a human being can only

be known by thoughts or to get to know

you

I need also to fill your heart the

energy you emanate yeah I mean it’s it’s

yeah it’s the energy and and being

physically around me to get to know me

truly it couldn’t be just by thought I

would have to be some physical physical

physical so you see that’s the same

that’s was telling you about the

universe the universe can’t be known

only by thoughts these are

transcendental to thoughts that

dimension that I’m talking about we have

to find a key to get into there okay

okay so you know just I’m just openly

thinking about this and and wondering

what you think is well you know what all

psychedelics you know when we’ve talked

to researchers scientists ethno

pharmacologists who study the DMT

molecule and there seems to be some sort

of relationship into entering this an

altered dimension this alternate reality

I mean do you think do you think it

could be through psychedelics well

according to dr. Timothy Leary which as

you know I worked with dr. Leary

he started the research have a universe

on the effect of LSD and it’s a property

you know even to cure depression I’m not

an expert into that but

I would say that perhaps for scientific

research it could help us it could help

a scientist to form a new idea maybe to

review her theory I’m just you know

thinking out loud it could be away I

mean even Albert Crick I think it was

recorded that he was micro dosing when

he visualized the double helix you know

DNA right so correct I would say I’m not

the personal drugs probably I would

prefer to encourage you to use maybe

meditation the meditation to access a

different reality probably constant

meditation because you read about

certain meditation certain mantra

certain way you speak certain words that

have a really amazing power and probably

I would encourage more meditation

mantras and theories to look into that

and that’s a personally what I do my

meditation is to look up to these

infinite the universe every single time

I can even if I the City Light of Miami

that’s my meditation even through music

I’m able to unlock a door on these

scientifical universe that perhaps just

the via analytical mind and analytical

brain I will not be able to I find also

myself using my body as as a key to

enter that reality my Jordan yeah Yoga

ecstasy also it acts as a different

dimension through which then I can

review some scientific finding studies

theory so we have a lot of tools we just

we are not used to think of them so we

think that the chemically-induced that

we can do better but I actually believe

we have it all within ourselves because

I see that in the universe the universe

has everything in itself okay so I mean

let’s let’s focus on meditation then you

know and let’s talk about types of

meditation that a person could use in

the different states that that a person

can enter I mean I have studied

meditation for a very long time and how

have you heard of out-of-body

experiences through meditation yes I do

is there any scientific correlation

between the out-of-body experience and

you know how is that possible that I’m

perceiving something external that you

know like how am i how is that how can

that be happening I’m just thinking of

loud to your question this out-of-body

experience

induced state you get to that state by

some you know meditation technique or in

noses in that state you can access a

very precious information I believe that

then you need to keep that information

and use your analytical power to

interpret it to those data in my case as

a physicist I need to access that is

accurate the state these out-of-body

experience these noses and first I had

to remember what I saw and then I have

to interpret the what I saw using

analytical mind means I have to prove it

and then disprove it and then approve it

again so I’m telling you this one

because I don’t want you to I don’t want

you to hear that what I’m saying is that

the true

after estate or out-of-body experience

we are gonna find the answer for the

universe because even if you have it

then you have to prove it scientifically

right that’s the scientific methodology

right so the results have to be

reproducible correct unless you want to

be an artist unless you want to compose

music you wanna create a screenplay then

you have a limited way to interpret that

as a scientist I need to grab a data

dimension that I saw and put it into

some form that every scientist across

the planet that can repeat the

experiment to confirm it so it’s complex

is not that simple

the scientific methodology is it’s very

important because it’s across all a

denominator across all planet and I’m a

scientist so I needed to build a new

science it’s really fascinating the work

you’re doing in the the openness like I

said is it’s really remarkable you know

you get into virtual reality I think we

should cover that before we close here

in a few minutes

I mean it’s VR is something that you’re

pretty big into I mean um you mentioned

living inside of computers before but

virtual reality and and senses this this

theme of interacting and viewing things

and in new ways so you know how can how

can VR systems you incorporate these

these senses and and kind of allow our

consciousness to exist inside of you

know computer well the planetarium I

would like to build at Florida

International University it will be like

a real planetarium but then the user

will you be in a virtual reality so they

will see all the solar system it is a

planet in it in 3d in this virtual

reality environment that will allow my

student

or the user to interact with it within

the planetarium

you will also smell the planet Mars will

smell like a gunpowder you will also be

able to taste the planet yes you will be

able to taste a little bit of ammonia

from a Jupiter and Saturn when you are

gonna approach the planet so this is a

five sense of virtual environment the

planetarium which I believe is the new

way of teaching is a virtual reality

where the student is a fully immersed

and I do believe also that the truth is

a type of technology we will access a

new knowledge I also believe we are on

the verge to discover new physics new

law of physics our physics book I

believe it will be written pretty pretty

soon because a new discovery are being

made but technology virtual reality even

Bionic we will be Bionic I will not need

to Google anymore thank goodness Google

will be in the back of my brain attached

to my brain the microphone will be not

hanging from a year will be straight

into my tooth I can’t wait to be Bionic

instant a recall of a database I mean

I’m double sorry I’m double minded about

this you know I’m not sure how ready I

am to transfer my consciousness into a

machine and live forever it sounds like

a horrifying thing I mean I you know I

just I don’t know I don’t know how

comfortable I feel with that right now I

and I’m not sure how much I want you

know a microchip in the back of my head

and you know pulling up information

random information all the time you know

I just so I don’t know there’s a

resistance to that a little bit you know

from from my side of things but I can

see how you know this is the future we

are moving into this realm of

transhumanism where people are ready to

you know jump and leap into this this

realm of virtual reality existing

through virtual

reality and I mean even today already

today people are already in that state

it’s just you know it’s just slower

because we have these devices in our

hands you know if we could wear a device

that was very wearable or you know that

we could turn on that was that was

already implanted and we could be in

that state we would be in that seat all

the time you know because people don’t

even look up from their phones when when

you pass them on the street so you know

it’s we’re already there

while you are seeing though they did the

bed of these mobile looking down and

social media and all of that it actually

I think is gonna turn around is gonna be

give us a lot of freedom we will have a

more friends but what I was saying was

that the use of technology for a better

man betterment of the human condition

because I’m tired to wear glasses so if

a salmon is gonna offer me a new retina

a new lens and I don’t have to go

through cataract

I would take that and follow me if I can

see better you’re better I would like

that but of course you know there is an

attachment for myself to don’t get me

wrong go to who I am so it’s it’s a it’s

a it’s a doll I’m a little bit right now

but I I think a technology could be a

good key for as a human being for the

future I mean it is the future I mean

whether I like it or not we’re going

we’re going in that direction it’s

happening either way it’s to happen in

every way correct

happening in acceleration in

acceleration it seems like it’s getting

faster and faster and faster as we as we

go along right so I mean we covered a

lot of different things in this show is

there anything that I haven’t asked you

that you want to talk about our mention

no just you know keep on looking up

believe in yourself you have it all

within you are like really a universe

within so go for for your dream don’t

give up perseverance and again just keep

looking up such a great such a great

interview

transy where can people find your work

where can they go to your website I know

there’s a heavenly knowledge book that

came out a while ago any plans to write

a new book maybe yes I would like to

write the principle we discussed today a

book about the life lesson of the

universal and I would like also to

release a new music compilation of new

songs on Spotify so a lot of things have

been including a virtual reality app

from a student a virtual book quite a

lot of great things happening and where

can people go yeah you know maybe a

Google fear I letter NC or so there is a

my website and Wikipedia

check me out the Florida International

University I’m pretty reachable on the

internet pretty easy to find very good

we’ll make that link available Fiorella

just hang tight for me let me just do

this close and and we’re gonna talk for

i want to talk to you just for a second

hang tight guys

what an amazing interview man that one

had me thinking a lot you know and

hopefully it did the same for you

how do you thinking and about some of

the questions that we asked on the show

and you know thinking about them in new

ways that’s what it did for me but um

that’s what that’s gonna do it for us

here at HSN for this week certainly well

we will be back with another live

broadcast for you next week if you’re

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