Transcript for Dr. Richard Louis Miller – Psychedelic Medicine

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the show we’ve got planned for you guys

today my guest for you today is dr.

Richard Lewis Miller dr. Miller is a

clinical psychologist with a keen

interest in the potential of psychedelic

medicine to treat health conditions and

to help us explore our consciousness

dr. Miller has a concern has been a

consultant to the US Department of

Justice he’s been an advisor to the

President’s Commission on mental health

and he’s also held a faculty position at

the University of Michigan and Stanford

we’re going to be discussing dr.

Miller’s latest work which is a book

called psychedelic medicine the healing

powers of LSD MDMA psilocybin and IU


dr. Miller it’s a pleasure to have you

here today sir thank you for making the

time to be here welcome to hxp

well it’s really fun to be with you on

July 4th we’re talking about psychedelic

medicine which hopefully is going to

bring a new generation of people a lot

of freedom and we’re doing it on our day

of freedom so thank you for having me

yeah I mean wouldn’t that be something

if we actually had the freedom without

the possible persecution of you know

being in jail to choose what we put

decide to put or not put into our bodies

dr. Miller let’s start off by you know

give us a little bit about your back

ground your history how long have you

been practicing medicine at what point

did you make the turning point what

point did you wake up to these compounds

as medicinal compounds I was I was in

graduate school and I heard about Leary

and Albert’s work at Harvard and I

bought their book the Tibetan Book of

the Dead and in it they were

instructions for how to take a

psychedelic lysergic acid LSD and they

said that if you take eight a certain

kind of morning glory seeds that you

could get almost anywhere heavenly blue

or pearly gates you would have the LSD

experience so my one of my classmates

and I very soon thereafter went out

bought out the store from there pearl

heavenly blue and pearly gates set up a

time and proceeded to each eat 400 sees

it wasn’t so easy getting 400

morning-glory seeds down by the way that

was my first psychedelic experience that

was in 1965 and and what I saw in that

experience opened up doors I mean when I

saw when the doors were opened up is a

better way of putting it was was so as

soul searching and so soul shaking and

so phenomenal and words could hardly

describe that I knew that I had entered

a new realm and the realm that had it

was just obvious that this was a realm

that had a great potential for human

beings a great potential for discovery a

great potential for creativity and a

great potential for healing and so that

all came to me during that first

experience with heavenly blue and pearly

gates morning glory seats in 1965 LSD

was still legal and by the way okay okay

and so give us a little bit about your

education your

background how long I mean where did you

go to school how long have you been

practicing medicine tell us about that

please I just want a credential this

conversation yeah I’ve been practicing

for well let’s see now thirty-four for

over 50 years and as you mentioned in

the introduction my my first academic

position was at the University of

Michigan in Ann Arbor then I went on and

I did research I was involved in a

research project for one year at

Stanford University and it was during

that period that I was influenced by the

work of Fritz Perls and Virginia’s a

tear at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur

in California and so I left academia I

set up a clinic in San Francisco and

proceeded to do my work I also in 1972 I

had made be propriety before I say what

I did in 72 while I was at Esalen in the

late 60s I sought it to study balneology

balneology is a Greek word it means the

use of hot mineral water that comes out

of the ground for healing purposes and

so I started looking around I was very

fortunate that the timing was right and

I was able to find a hot springs for

sale that had what people considered to

be the most remarkable the most

medicinal water it was called Wilbur hot

springs and I bought that in 1972 and

proceeded to work work on it and create

a health sanctuary there while at the

same time I was in private practice and

I was leading groups and I was pursuing

research in psychedelic studies that’s

amazing I mean that’s that’s a perfect

parallel to you know push pushing or at

least educating people re educating

people I mean something happened you

know in the 1980s with the Reagan

administration and that that sort of

dead reptilian Blink list stay

that Nancy Reagan had when she said you

know just say no and that whole campaign

started and you know there was something

in the introduction of your book that

you make very clear which I really

enjoyed reading you just say you know

what’s happening in America what’s you

know what’s going on here and you start

to go into the socio-economic conditions

of maybe why these drugs may be illegal

and you know what’s happening as far as

their relationship to consciousness can

you go into that for us like what’s why

can I go down the street and buy alcohol

and cigarettes

but you know not something not something

else that might open my mind to per se

well that’s a great question and since

you mentioned alcohol I’m going to bring

in something here many of your listeners

are aware of the fact that in 1962 the

Surgeon General of the United States

issued the first serious and major

report on the negative effects of

nicotine and smoking on the human system

and that changed the course of the

United States at least in the course was

changed we still have I think 25 or 30

million smokers which is quite

unfortunate but the world.the became

under that influence of knowledge namely

nicotine smoking is dangerous about

within the last few months

scientists from I think nine or more

countries in Europe did a major study

the biggest study that’s ever been done

in recorded history

on alcohol and the headline of that

study is that alcohol is toxic in any

amount to the human system and this is

really important I know it’s not the

subject of our talk today as psychedelic

medicine is important and I certainly

want to get to but I I thank you for

allowing me the opportunity to just tell

those listeners that haven’t seen this

report and it was published in the most

prestigious journal in all of England

called Lancet and

it’s easily available for people to look

up of course on Google and but this is a

it’s very important because on the one

hand as you point out alcohol is readily

available everywhere in the United

States on the other hand the scientists

have now said that it’s a toxic

substance just the way it was determined

that nicotine is a toxic substance no

one has ever said that LSD or psilocybin

ayahuasca or MDMA are toxic substances

they’ve simply used morality and and

misguided judgments and racism to make

them illegal and as you also said in

your introduction you know a person it’s

it’s absurd but a person risks prison

time for taking one of these substances

in the privacy of their own home when

they are not going to hurt themselves or

any other human being in the world but

they do prison time for engaging in that

act it’s irrational it’s misguided its

political but it’s not in the interests

of the American public to continue and I

think changes are happening we’re seeing

change happening and that’s the positive

within the last couple of weeks the

United States government actually put in

print for the first time in my career

over 50 years the GUP to put in print

that they see that there is potential

for psychedelic medicine to be

beneficial to people that was a major

major breakthrough so I think I think

we’re on the verge of a renaissance just

like the country is going through a

renaissance with regard to its attitudes

about tetrahydrocannabinol marijuana and

we all know that it’s obvious it’s in

all the papers one state after another

are legalizing or illegal either

medicinal use of recreational use so it

appears that some change is coming after

a very dark night than last over 60

years yeah I mean it’s it’s incredible

how archaic these laws are and you know

you make a perfect case and point for it

in the opening of your book you talk

about Harry Anslinger and some of the

ideology that he used in the 1930s to

start to enforce these laws because

apparently people thought that you know

like he started to prosecute mean of

Mexicans for marihuana blacks for

cocaine and then there was this

disinformation as you write that that

people of minority people of color would

use drugs to seduce the white woman and

the public broad over this right that

was the method that was one of the

primary methods that Harry Anslinger

used to turn the American Congress away

from legalized keeping these medicines

legal and towards creating an illegal

structure for them that was it that

these these these minority groups are

gonna use these these drugs to seduce

white women and that just got the ire up

of a whole class of people in the United

States and one after another the

Harrison Act and so on for marijuana one

after another were made illegal that the

medical doctors in this country many

people don’t know this but a lot of

medical doctors in this country went to

prison because they refused to stop

prescribing heroin to their patients the

medical doctors in this country at one

time had the whole heroin situation

under control it was a prescription

medicine they used it for pain they used

it they helped people withdraw and we

did not have a big heroin problem

and when heroin was made illegal it was

taken away from the medical doctors many

of them kept prescribing and it went to

prison thousands of them went to prison

that’s easily available on Google also

by the way because they didn’t want to

go along with it but eventually of

course the whole country did so the

drugs were made illegal and we filled up

of course what happened well two things

happen when you make a substance illegal

one you create a criminal gang because

they soon make something illegal

there’s a criminal group they’re gonna

be selling it and gonna make money off

it so in terms of what you’re talking

about this thing that Reagan started

with his wife the war on drugs well what

he created was the biggest criminal

enterprise in the hit in all of history

the cartels have taken over entire

countries entire countries have been

taken over by by drug cartels because of

the opportunity they had to sell

something that shouldn’t have been

illegal to begin with it’s a similar

thing to what the Mafia did the Mafia

took took advantage of prohibition to

make their fortune and then when

Prohibition was over they just moved all

that illegal money into legal

enterprises and they’re sitting fatback

now 50 years 70 years later under their

on their ill-gotten gains a similar kind

of thing so yes that’s what we have we

have cartels owning countries around the

world and we still have this this war on

drugs which is really a war on people as

you point out it’s not a war on drugs

it’s a war on people and it’s mostly a

war on black people and yellow people

and people and people of color hmm

Harriet Harry Anslinger was an ardent

racist he was well known for it he he

was known for going to Bellevue Hospital

in Manhattan and having the famous

singer Billie Holiday chained to her

hospital bed because he was upset

because one of her songs strange fruit

was a song about heroin and so he

actually handcuffed her to our hospital

bed and Bellevue that’s on record so

yeah this is but but the bottom line of

all of this and I think the most

important point of all the things we’re

talking about and it’s a very sad point

and the very difficult point is that we

really cannot trust our government hmm

is the sad point we cannot trust our

government because they are influenced

by irrationality they’re influenced by

money mostly term and they simply lie

and they lie on both sides of the aisle


simply lied to the American people and

it’s a reprehensible situation because

we cannot trust our own government and

what that means is when we hear stuff on

the television we don’t know anymore

whether it’s spin whether it’s fake news

whether it’s real news whether it’s news

that the owner of the station wants us

to believe whether it’s that the

reporter wants us to believe or whether

it actually happened right so what

they’ve done and I say they we can get

into who they are but what they’ve done

is really create a kind of craziness

because craziness is when you can’t

trust anything you can’t trust what you

see you can’t trust what you feel is

smell what do you do then and so a lot

of people are suffering but I think

let’s get back to our topic on

psychedelic medicine and how that fits

into this terrible political situation

we’ve created we’re gonna get right into

that I just I just want to bring up one

other point I just want to hammer this

home I’m sure you know of Gary Webb he

wrote a series called the Dark Alliance

it was examining the origins of crack

cocaine in the Los Angeles area and he

found out this link between the CIA and

the Contras in Nicaragua and it turns

out the CIA was actually funding like

all of this stuff mean the drug trade so

it was so you know there is a

deep-rooted mistrust between what what’s

going on with the people and then also

the people that are in charge and making

these laws for us for our own good I

don’t I don’t see that anymore you know

I don’t see that and they tried this

with prohibition it just didn’t work

with prohibition and when you push

something into the realm of being

illegal it doesn’t go away as you said

it just turns criminal it into a

criminal enterprise and you just push it

underground if someone really wants

something they’re going to find a way to

obtain it right so I mean maybe maybe

people in many of the people that you’ve

that you interviewed for this book

dennis mckenna rick doblin stan grof

james Fadiman

had on the show we’ve had on this show

to talk about this and you know I just I

think it’s interesting that you know

like like I said a minute ago that

anyone suffering you know from pain can

it can go down the street and buy

alcohol to numb that pain away but when

it comes to something like ayahuasca now

they’re they’re suddenly finding

themselves on you know a 10-hour flight

down to Peru maybe they’re dropping

three four five thousand dollars to you

know tour with a shaman they hang out

for a week

you name in so let’s get into the

substances let’s get into you know LSD

went where did you feel like what part

of your research indicated that LSD

could have such a large impact on impact

on PTSD okay I’m gonna answer that

question but before I do I just want to

go back to a point you just made okay

you pointed out to it to your listeners

that Gary Webb wrote this book the Dark

Alliance which showed that the CIA was

directly involved in the cocaine trade

which is accurate right uh Gary Webb

supposedly committed suicide sure yeah

at age forty nine and you know when I

hear that a guy who exposed the CIA

committed suicide my eyebrows both go up

one at a time that sounds odd so I just

wanted to make that point yeah I do know

that what he was saying in that book I

have personal experience with because I

treated CIA people for cocaine addiction

earlier in my career and I had inside

information about what was going on down

there and there was no question that the

CIA was was in the cocaine business but

that was another you know one of the

great lives that gets told to the

American public all right getting back

to the connections with the psychedelic

medicines and post-traumatic stress

disorder well yeah

right now we are on a we’re in a

situation where

certain amount more of more research is

being allowed remember for 50 60 years

we actually lived in a situation were

research research was suppressed

research in the United States was

suppressed that in and of itself is

horrific because that’s the kind of

thing when I was growing up you think

you hear ok research is suppressed in

Russia research might be suppressed in

China you know one of those bad

countries who ever heard about research

university research being suppressed in

the United States well it turns out

research is suppressed in the United


psychedelic medicine is one of the areas

of research that’s been suppressed and

there are others but that in and of

itself should tell your listeners

volumes what does it say about a

government that suppresses scientists

what does it tell you we’re not talking

now about cartel members we’re not

talking about kids in high school making

laboratories in their houses we’re not

talking about underground situations or

weird situations or doctor no on an

island with about university professors

whose lives are science and those people

have been suppressed for over 60 years

in our country it’s it’s it’s it’s son

Spitz and I wouldn’t have to say it’s

unspeakable but it’s not unspeakable

because we’re speaking about it and I

hope we keep speaking about it until

until the research is allowed even now

it’s not that it’s difficult to do what

you have to go through in order to do

the research is is beyond your wildest

imagination what you have to go through

because of the way they watch these

substances and what they make you go

through in order to create a research

laboratory getting back to oh because

your good question about the connection

between the psychedelics and PTSD MDMA

presently is considered to be the number

one choice for

traumatic stress disorder partly because

we have more research thanks to Rick

Doblin and maps sure we have more

research on MDMA useful the research

office of PTSD research on LSD so much

harder to find you have to go back to

pre-1967 and there was plenty of

research then but I just go on record as

saying that right now the number one

choice of the psychedelics from

post-traumatic stress disorder is MDMA

MDMA is is considered by many to be an

entheogen you know it gives you a sense

of a of a mystical or religious

experience and it’s known as the heart

opener and anybody who’s ever taken MDMA

knows what why it’s called the heart

opener because it opens us up in a way

that our defenses are down far and we

speak under MDMA easily from the heart

and it’s an excellent medicine for

couples therapy and it’s an excellent

message medicine for psychotherapy I was

fortunate in that I was able to have

MDMA administered to me by my therapist

while it was still legal and used in

therapy so I have a lot of I had a lot

of first-hand experience with it and I

felt its power and I experienced how

much it did for my own personal work LSD

I don’t know if I’m prepared to say that

LSD is a medicine for poor for

specifically for post-traumatic stress

disorder I would say LSD is a medicine

for anywhere you want to take it because

it enables us to see things about our

selves in a very short period of time

that might otherwise either take years

or not even be available I mean this

medicine and probably speaking to the

choir because I imagine so many of your

listeners have experienced it but I

would hope that they’ve experienced it

in a medicinal way can add it to

whatever they’ve done recreationally

because medicinal way that we’re talking

about on this program it’s the Medaille

I’m not in any way besmirching or

demeaning recreational use that’s a

whole nother topic I’m talking strictly

about medicinal use

which means you follow a protocol you

you go about it in a certain way and

with a certain set in a certain setting

I to me LSD may be the tool that’s going

to enable us to do self healing of

physical parts and a lot if I may I’m

gonna say a little bit more on that sir

please okay you know that if you cut the

back of your hand right now as we’re

talking let’s say you just reach out or

something and you scratch open the skin

on the back of your hand and it bleeds

and you and you touch it with some cloth

and it stops bleeding you’re very

confident that that’s gonna heal correct

sure okay most of us are over a few days

it starts to heal and then ass Campbell

form and then thus Campbell fall off and

there might be a little line there and

most likely eventually the line will go

away correct mm-hmm

who did that I mean genetics the human

body’s ability to repair I mean are you

are you trying to say that who did that

did you do that or somebody else do that

my body’s automatic function is doing

that right whose body’s automatic right

thank you

so so you so

you did that you healed that wound

correct her yeah okay and you used an

important word when you described how

you healed it you said automatic right

you said automatic right

suppose you were able to take volitional

control of what presently is automatic

suppose you could go inside with a laser

focus of your mind and get an

understanding of how you went about

healing that wound suppose you could

with a tool go inside with the laser

focus of your mind and get such an

understanding of the biochemical

electrical process that went on to

create that healing that you could guide

it because you understood it so greatly

by watching it with your mind that you

could then guide that process yourself

and take volitional control of the

healing of that wound if you could start

with that then with greater practice you

might be addressing your kidney your

liver your heart your pancreas or any

other part of your body that needed

healing because you would be in charge

of what is presently an automatic

function and I think LSD has the

potential with practice to enable the

human mind or perhaps I should say human

consciousness bigger than the mind to

allow human consciousness to self heal

and that’s where I think the action is I

there’s plenty of action of course the

way Steve Jobs used it with creativity

with Apple and the we all say God

used it with creativity with astronomy

Watson and Crick used it for the

discovery of the DNA molecule that’s all

great stuff and I wouldn’t be surprised

if he LAN musk is using it with Tesla

which surprised me very much if he’s not

sure in fact you you point to any

creative genius around the United States

nowadays and I’d say it’s highly likely

that they’re using psychedelic medicine

to enhance their research work you know

dr. Miller I think it’s really

interesting in it and this is why I

think information and the work that you

are doing is so important is you know

several years ago when we started doing

this show we interviewed Tom Schroeder

he sure you you know of his work you

wrote a book called acid test

I believe he even won a Pulitzer for

something related to that work but I

remember that day or that night after we

had recorded the episode and I remember

just hesitating enough you know and

thinking after I published this how is

that gonna affect you know my career how

is that gonna affect me and you know I

just it was almost as if it’s taboo to

discuss this and in times of change

things are changing rapidly you know

things have evolved and thankfully we’re

coming to this point where turning point

as you stated we’re now we are starting

to accept the science behind these

medicines the quality of these medicines

and it’s it’s no longer as much of an

ideology you know it’s not no longer

much of a fear there it’s still there

you know but I think I think now at

least we’re discussing it we’re having

conversations like this unafraid we’re

not afraid to talk about the potential

healing effects of these compounds and

it’s clear you know and I got a really

amazing email one day after a show like

this and

it was someone who had served in the

military and she said she said Xavier

thank you so much for putting out

episodes such as this because it really

helped me come to the point of a

decision to – try it – to give it a try

because she was suffering from PTSD she

had served our country and she came back

and she was broken she couldn’t sleep I

mean she’s having all kinds of issues so

how often does that come up in in your

practice where people are hitting a wall

in their recovery and then you you know

you add in this this compound that that

helps them get moved past that I don’t

know the numbers but it’s happy the

story you just told about the vet is

happening all over the United States and

all around the world and I can give you

many stories from my own practice some

of them are vets some are not vets I

interviewed one woman on my radio

program who was who was a whistleblower

at Fox and she was fired they ruined her

career and she had severe PTSD and used

MDMA and we talked about it on the radio

program and we she was a no person in

the in the public view who benefited

greatly but there are people who are not

in the public view of their people all

over the world the Israelis

you know have done a lot of work with

PTSD with with their people who have

suffered because of the terrible things

that are going on there so you know

there there are breakthroughs happening

Rick Doblin thinks that that MDMA may be

a prescribed herbal medicine either by

2020 or 20 21 so that’s gonna be a major

a major breakthrough and it and what

that means my breakthrough is that means

that people now who are suffering and

are not

anywhere with their PTSD treatment we’ll

have a medicine available to them that’s

going to enhance their treatment

markedly and that’s a wonderful thing

it’s a wonderful thing for the whole

country I’m also hoping that enough

people are going to get involved taking

these various psychedelic medicines so

that we’re going to see more of a

consciousness change which is gonna then

have an effect over time on the

political situation which is not only

getting it’s not getting better in this

country it’s getting much worse in my

opinion and and there’s a lot of of

regression to a time of when it would

things were a lot less pleasant and and

it appears that that’s the direction

we’d be going in the last couple of

years with with with how to put it

support support for negativity hmm and

the selling on an even grander scale of

fear the public American public has been

fed fear by politicians throughout my

life that’s part of the name of the game

they sell fear and it’s very sad it’s

very unfortunate but I sometimes there’s

less fear and sometimes there’s more

fear being sold to us right now in the

last couple of years

fear is being sold wholesale and some of

it is just psychological fear that’s

being sold about and it’s and it’s it

has no basis in reality but it’s you

know fear of other fear of bad people

fear of you know Mexicans fear of

Muslims you know fear of fear of our own

species that’s part of the fear that’s

being sold but the other thing that’s

going on as you mentioned that I

mentioned in my book the other thing

that’s going on that’s also that’s

horrific is the continuation of

something started in the Nixon Reagan

okay which is a massive socio-economic

stratification pushing the middle class

down pushing the lower-class down

further increasing homelessness because

when you push down those at the bottom

get pushed out literally pushed out the

upper 1% of 1% of the population are

expanding their control of the of the

country their asset base base is

expanding the numbers are well-known

there’s one family in this country that

alone are worth the same amount of money

as the lower hundred and fifty million

people in this country that’s the

Walmart family so things have been

allowed by us we the people we’ve

allowed them to get so out of balance

that we’ve got this incredible

socio-economic stratification that is

just ruining our country ruining the

people and one of the most obvious

symptoms of the pain that our country is

going through is the fact that at this

time as we speak Xavier 72% of the

American population are obese or

overweight the country is telling the

world and telling itself how much it’s

suffering by by hurting each person of

that 72% destroying themselves with with

by being overweight it’s one of the

worst possible health things you can do

to yourself it stresses everything there

is there’s no longer any rational basis

for maintaining extra weight because we

now have clothing that protects us from

cold and we have heating in homes that

protects us from cold and the purpose

that the fat served was to protect us

from cold

why’s it serves no purpose and but what

it does do is it costs us because for

every pound of extra fat we have we have

to supply it with energy and that’s like

having a store that you have to pay for

and doesn’t make any income you’ve gone

20 stores let’s say you own a hundred

stores and 72 of them 72 percent cost

you money and they don’t give anything

back you have to survive on the other

28% how long can you do that how long

and how long can this country go on with

72% suffering so greatly because they’re

feeding parts of their own body that

give them nothing back but what energy

are feeding that that extra poundage

what that energy costs is it costs the

immune system because every drop of that

energy that goes to support that

overweight could be used by the immune

system and instead it’s being used to

support a cost center that gives nothing

back it’s a total waste of energy in the

business world it would be like having a

franchise that’s losing all the time

it’s a it’s a it’s a waste of money

that’s the situation we’re in and so the

people of our country are suffering so

greatly that they are telling us

ourselves how much they’re suffering by

hurting themselves and showing it in our

faces because when you walk down the

street you can’t help but notice when

there’s 72% around you who are obese or

overweight it’s in your face all the

time yeah you you can hide it to a

certain extent if you’re taking too much

heroin or cocaine or methamphetamine

even there’s a lot of things you can

hide but you you can’t hide obesity and

you can’t hide overweight so let me let

me bump in here dr. Miller

I you know I it’s so resounding every

everything that you’re talking about I

really connect with it on every possible

level and I thought you know what a

better way to celebrate the fourth of

July other than to have this

conversation today here to you know to

mark our freedom today by having this

conversation about the powers of these

medicines to heal and I’m sure that you

heard of this I mean hopefully you did

but there was there was an event that

happened just a couple months ago where

there was a 71 year old grandmother that

was boarding a flight I think it was

Dallas Airport in Texas and she had a

bottle of CBD oil on her and I guess it

was the TSA they arrested her at the


71 year old grandmothers she’s not it’s

not a drug dealer

and you know and then is it’s so

interesting you know and just connecting

with the socio-economic aspect of this

of the the upper and lower class there

was also the this admission scandal this

this Ivy League admission school scandal

where these these kids were getting

these free rides basically if you know

they’re their wealthy parents paid and

the guy that was brokering the deals he

he received over $600,000 I think I

remember correctly for for negotiating

the entrance of you know these wealthy

kids and when he was sentenced he got a

day in jail time served and yet and yet

Oh grandmother traveling through an

airport with CBD you know it’s it just

it’s absurd but now you know it seems

like I was surprised to see that Oakland

has turned the corner on a lot of this

legislate legislation but you know I do

I I see it as such a it’s a small

victory but I mean what are you really

doing here you’re decriminalizing nature

you know okay so it’s okay

for us now to take mushrooms by you ask

peyote and you know it’s it’s no longer

I’m not gonna be in jail and you know

the the idea here is okay well you know

sir you’re you’re ruining your life you

know you’re destroying your life by

using these these substances so here’s

what we’re gonna do for you we’re gonna

put you in jail so you can sort your

life out so I mean what where do you

think where do you see the future of

this you know and yes Rick Doblin he’s a

really important character in this story

of for Humanity and it

yeah I’ve talked to him and he does talk

about getting MDMA to a point by 2022 I

think he said where it’s a prescription

drug but and it where where do you think

we’re gonna be headed in the next 5-10


well that’s it’s a great question and I

can tell you where I hope we’re headed

and I tell you where I where we seem to

be headed where I where I hope we’re

headed is towards a Renaissance and

consciousness where people look like

yourself and the people listening to

your program start to organize because

change comes through organization

organization the reason we won the

Revolutionary War was because of

organization because Benjamin Franklin

was one of the most organized people

around and so was George Washington they

were highly organized Benjamin Franklin

started a group called the junto in 1743

ten people they met every week out of

that group came the University of

Pennsylvania the first fire department

in the postal service when people try to

join that group Franklin said no Scott

Jerome at one point he said to the other

nine people in the junta

each of you go out to start another

jinto in addition these gentles

proliferated proliferated around the

United States and they were very

important in our Revolutionary War

because the Sons of Liberty carried word

on horseback from Hunt Oh junto to gent

oh they were the Committees of

Correspondence they became information

as it is now was key during the

revolution of making this point because

it’s a point about organization it’s not

enough to listen and beef it’s not

enough to complain it’s not enough to

hear these words that you and I Xavier

are talking about and trying to wave the

flag to the public that it’s time for a

change all of that is great stuff but

eventually when it comes down to is

organizing and sharing information the

telephones the cell phones are

tremendous pieces of equipment for that

because of the rapidity of sharing of

information and because the average

person now can take a photograph and

share it with the world

those are huge steps that make

organization more possible but even

these words that I’m speaking to a

government are dangerous words because

because the government does not want

people organizing the reason the

government is more powerful than anybody

else is because it has AG larger

organization and the reason the

corporation’s now own the government is

because the corporation is an extremely

organized a really organized group of

people they have a structure they have a

power structure they have job delegation

they have franchises the word can go

from the top to the bottom to the left

to the right extremely rapidly and

people can all be moved in a certain

direction that is organization you know

sorry that’s what it said to your

question what is it going to take to

change it

gonna take organization and

communication and it can be done but

it’s a monumental it’s a big task but

you know what beating beating England

which was the greatest country in the

world for us to beat them in a

revolutionary war with it with a group

of basically a group of farmers who knew

how to shoot guns that was quite a feat

in and of itself as well so we’ve done

it before

we’ve done it before and I do I’m gonna

make a little comment you said earlier

in the introduction something about

Liberty fries on and and I want I want

to take exception to that I’m not

blaming you but these politicians who

turn their back on France because France

wouldn’t join us in some fight somewhere

else in the world and all of its we have

the audacity to change french fries to

liberty fries memories are too short

because without the french we would not

have won the Revolutionary War it was

their Navy that fought the British Navy

that was blockading us and stopping us

from getting help and when they when

their French Navy did that that was a

huge help and and when the Marquis de

Lafayette a 21 year old kid a young man

I should say came here he brought I

think he bought what is something like

what nowadays would be a billion dollars

and a small army people don’t know that

he didn’t just drop over himself and the

he was so close to the king of France

that for him to be here at Washington’s

side was was huge so that when Ben

Franklin went to the King of France to

try to get him to join us and he worked

on it until he finally succeeded the

fact that Lafayette was here was a

really big deal well that’s a story

about winning and I’m saying we won

before against odds that nobody could

believe were possible we could win again

but we better get organized because the

other side that’s keeping us in the dark

secrets of the night are very organized


they’re they’re heavily funded they’re

very well funded by these megalithic

corporations and in the name of profit

there are pushing legislation that

affects us on in an everyday basis and

you know I I it reminds me of a quote

I’m gonna paraphrase this I might

butcher this but it’s from the Dali Lama

and he says if you think you’re too

small to make a difference

just to remember the last time that

there was a mosquito in your room before

you fell asleep so so it’s it’s not that

we’re too small and I think that’s

that’s the error in thinking you know

that’s the that sometimes that that that

little voice in our minds that says you

know no I’m not big enough to make a

difference and my voice doesn’t make a

difference it does your voice does make

a difference and you know there was

something in your book that I loved it’s

it’s something you said about Thomas

Jefferson and you said that Thomas

Jefferson told us over 200 years ago

that the Constitution should be

rewritten every 20 years for every new

generation because it gets out of date

right and you know I agree with this you

know I really see this and you know

hopefully hopefully we get it together

because you know I I don’t I would you

know I would be I don’t know where

things would be for the next generation

the generation after that if we don’t do

something here and now and beyond just

these words in North Korea there are

prisons called the prison of three

generations and what that means is if a

man gets arrested and sent to prison

everybody in his family of his

generation goes to prison with him but

everybody in his family above him

meaning his parents and his grey

parents and his children they all go to

prison as well so they wipe out three

generations of a family all the cousins

all the brothers all the sisters all the

aunts all the uncles all the children

three generations right across get wiped

out and they send them to these prisons

and what has happened there is that

people are born there live their whole

lives there and they die there and they

believe that that is life that is life

they don’t know anything out that goes

on outside of that those prisons the

stories that come out of there are

stories of a system whereby what we call

ratting is rewarded that’s that one of

the best things you can possibly do and

they’ve got turning each other in as

such a highly rewarded thing that people

turn in their own parents for

infractions knowing that their parents

will be shot in front of them and when

their parents are shot in front of them

the reaction of the children is to be

happy because they believe that they

have done the right thing they have told

on their parents and their parents were

properly executed and eliminated I’m

telling the story

because it’s a story of what is

happening on this planet it’s a story of

to a certain extent of what happened in

Russia between 1917 after the Revolution

and when the the Soviet Union came apart

on to Gorbachev seventy years later

people will

and died believing that the world was

the way they saw it around them and

that’s what it was and it is in the

prison of three generations and what I’m

saying to you is if we don’t do

something about the situation we’re in

we will be the prison of three

generations because in a few generations

they won’t know any different

they’ll be fewer and fewer to remind

them that there are other ways of living

where love can trump fear but if you

don’t even know there’s such a thing as

love and you were born and raised and

died and lived your entire life and the

only emotion that the predominant

emotion was fear that’s what life is

there’s nothing to compare it to it’s

sort of like the story of Vladimir

Horowitz being asked what was it like

growing up as a prodigy and he said I

have no idea I had nothing to compare it

to it’s I I love your words dr. Miller

and you know I I’m so glad I know we

kind of you know spent a lot of time in

this conversation just talking about the

the socio-economic conditions of what’s

going on here and the political aspects

of this but I think the the legislation

of this is something that we really need

to address and look at and we how much

time do we have left exam you have six

minutes left let me see if I could say a

couple of more words about psychedelic

medicine in my book and because you know

that was our topic please do okay I

think the greatest potential in the

psychedelic medicines that as I see them

right now are in LSD and MDMA psilocybin

appears to have a lot of potential as

well particularly for depression I have

some concerns about it as a medicine not

because I

it’s dangerous in any way but because

with a relatively high percentage of

people it has a side effect which is

nausea and and discomfort and that’s a

big thing for a lot of people to get

over you move down one or not down but

along the line two ayahuasca and there

you have a major side effect of stomach

upset that leads to sometimes explosive

regurgitation so much so that in

ayahuasca circles it’s quite common for

everybody every person who’s sitting in

the circle that’s going to ingest

ayahuasca to have a bowl to throw up

into so I have reservations about that

as a medicine also because of the of the

severity of the of the regurgitation and

also because I I don’t buy into the the

the the the psychobabble that the reason

for the regurgitation is that you’re

throwing up psychological junk from the

past sure the reason you’re throwing up

is because ayahuasca is an emetic it

makes human beings puke pure and simple

I got that from Steven Beyer who wrote

the book talking to the plants

Dennis McKenna has also verified that

the famous ethno botanist that you

mentioned you’ve had on your show I’ve

had him on my show

it’s an emetic it makes you throw up so

that’s a side effect that doesn’t mean

it’s a bad medicine or a dangerous

medicine but it means a lot of people

are gonna have to deal with that I’m a

realist and a pragmatist for me that the

best kind of medicine is a medicine that

causes the least discomfort and gives

the most effect and if you if you have

to fight your way through negative

effects whether it’s vomiting or

headaches or various other kinds of

things you got a fight on your hands

let’s see if we can find something

better we don’t have those kind of

effects there are some effects that some

people have with MDMA and LSD it’s

pretty rare

as Dave Nichols you know one of the

greatest pioneers in research of

psychedelic medicine said on my program

you may have had him on yourself

nobody’s ever died from LSD hmm hmm very

simple no one there’s no recorded death

from LSD that’s a very important thing

for the public to know because there’s

so many these rumors that have gone on

and we’re talking about I had a patient

of mine took took 10 times 10 times a

normal dose of LSD took two thousand

micrograms and he had a big experience

but he sure as heck didn’t die and he

didn’t end up in the emergency room I’m

not here to tell you that I think people

should go out and do that by any means

definitely I’m using it as an example er

how far somebody could go with this and

still you know be okay it’s it’s not a

lethal medicine in other words that’s

important to know because of all the

disinformation that’s been out there I

want to say that if your listeners have

not had experience with these medicines

and they’re thinking of doing so in

addition to my book which i think is

worth reading because you have the best

scientists in the United States telling

it as it is and you’ve had many of them

on your program Xavier and the other

book to read is Jim Fatima’s the

psychedelic explorers guide have you had

him on your program you have sure okay

great then I’m just validating with you

that book what book is a must because

that my book tells you what the

scientists are telling you Jim’s book

tells you that’s the recipe how to and

you want to follow the how-to because

when you follow the how-to you’re taking

a substance and you’re using it

medicinally right I mean that’s I think

you know yeah I love the book and I

loved the the format in which you used

and just going right to the source

you’re going to the people that are

making the changes in in this community

and this movement I think it’s important

to note that you know in in the 90s and

during the just say no to drugs campaign

we were given this model of the

which was that once you once gray cells

or gray matter in the brain was gone it

never came back

right and then in the early 2000s uh

scientists started to pick up on this

idea of neurogenesis and they found out

that psilocybin I you ask

LSD these types of compounds were

actually regrowing parts of the brain

yes so you know I think it’s important

to re-educate the people into an

awareness of how the science has changed

you know the stuff that we were told

when we were growing up and for my

generation it just it flat-out is wrong

it’s a propaganda you know reefer

madness I mean that that was propaganda

as well the stuff you were told Xavier

was misleading it was erroneous it was

wrong pure and simple and it’s a new day

there’s a renaissance going on and

programs like yours and I thank you very

much for having your program because

you’re one of the mosquitos in the room

that’s help if you want you’re one of

the mosquitos in the room that’s helping

keep keep us awake and we need to be

awake dr. Miller I love it thank you so

much for your time today on this holiday

giving us your time with this amazing

read I really do recommend picking up

this book guys it’s a really great way

to get into what these medicines can do

for you dr. Miller where can people go

and find your work where the website

where can they go well we have a website

the psychedelic medicine book and you

can go to that easy to find me on Google

dr. Richard Lewis Miller you’ve got to

use my middle name dr. Richard Lewis

ello you is Miller the book psychedelic

medicine is easily available on Amazon

Xavier so you know that’s the easiest

place to get to it will make that link

available for people and then you’re a

broadcaster as well you have your own

show so why don’t you plug that as well

oh that’s kind of you my program is

called mind-body health and politics and

Xavier and I have in

interviewed many of the same people and

it’s worth hearing them on his program I

love the job you’re doing you Savior you

doing a great job it’s been a lovely

interview with you I’ve enjoyed it

immensely and mind-body Health &

Politics is my program and you can see a

lot of interesting programs that I’ve

archived on there that I think you’ll

find them interesting and some of them

quite educational

dr. Miller have you ever last last thing

for you here have you ever gotten the

comparison because I’m looking at this

picture of you which were broadcasting

right now have you ever gotten the

comparison to Bryan Cranston of Breaking

Bad Walter White you look like that guy

do you have you ever gotten that

comparison I a lot of people have told

Bryan Cranston that he looks like me I

know that and and sometimes he kids me

about it because how many people tell

him that and that’s about all I know

about it okay all right fair enough guys

you heard it here we’re gonna get out of

here thank you so much if you’re

listening to this this broadcast my

guest his name is dr. Richard Lewis

Miller the book is called psychedelic

medicine the healing powers of LSD MDMA

psilocybin and ayahuasca highly

recommend going and picking up this book

and giving it a read I really enjoyed it

we are gonna get out of here if you are

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