Transcript for Dr. John Gray on Relationship Dynamics, Gender Roles, Red Flags, Dating, and “Love”.

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thank you for listening

oh man John you’re scaring me man okay

all right so wait wait I want to know

why is that scaring you ironically I’ve

never been asked the question what’s a

red flag for a man left pass what’s the

red flag for women I’ve written books

about it I’m giving some advice to women

if you don’t have a if there’s a man

you’re interested in one red flag is if

he doesn’t have a job that’s fulfilling

to him run the other way and so if

you’re looking to your partner for this

huge support you’re not going to get it

all the time so you pull to yourself you

have to have a life separate from your

partner so you know since kind of like a

cup filling up and then you overflow

with your partner but I dated I was

considered what’s called a keeper so all

the women was it do long-term or they go

slow with me because they didn’t want to

have it be a one-night stand

see there’s a distinction between

sharing and complaining complaining as

I’m sharing my feelings in order for you

to change your behavior

that’s a complaint sharing as opposed to

complaining is just talking about your

feelings without the intent to change

somebody we’ve been always wanting me to

give them the red flags bye what’s the

issue with him him him him and I think

the big red flag is you you you which is

to look inside yourself


what’s up folks

Xavier Quezada here you are listening to

the human experience and wow what an

episode that we have for you today dr.

John Gray men are from Mars Women are

from Venus and we talked about

everything relationship interesting

subject of course dr. grades work has

been featured pretty much everywhere

Oprah dr. Oz Show today CBS dr. gray has

been doing this for a long time I found

his answers sounding the accurate is a

good word I think to use so hopefully

you enjoyed this one thank you guys so

much for listening the human experiences

in session my guest for today is dr.

John Gray John it is a pleasure sir

welcome to the human experience well

thank you so much I’m happy to spend

this time with you I want to read the

inside cover of your book beyond Mars

and Venus just because I I don’t think

that you’ll name dropped this I want to

do this for you John Gray PhD is the

author of men are from Mars Women are

from Venus

USA Today listed Mars Venus as one of

the top ten most influential books of

the last quarter century I just want to

jump into this but I also want to know

for you how was this a draw for you how

did you feel gravity towards

relationships and men and women and

their focus well I was a celibate monk

for nine years in my 20s my brother was

bipolar and I was teaching meditation

and it really didn’t help my brother

very much so I quit being a monk and

went off to study psychology thinking

that maybe I could help them that way I

ended up teaching nutrition as well

because that actually does help but my

movement from personal growth through


moved into psychology primarily because

when I went back to study psychology I

was very talented and understanding and

counseling men and women and my whole

message of Mars Venus was because at the

time and is still the case to some

degree people kept assuming that many

women need the same kind of support that

were all the same and that’s obviously

not true and people continue to think

that our differences are just

manufactured by cultural conditioning

while that is also true that certainly

our culture affects us the purpose of

culture is to support people in being

the best they can be and right now we’re

in a transition of creating a new

culture that supports both men and women

being all that they can be which is

meaning that we’re no longer limited to

sexual stereotypes but at the same time

we truly are very very different in many

significant ways which is what I

explained and even when I talk about men

and women we’re not talking all men

we’re talking most of men and most of

women and there’s always going to be

exceptions so the cultural differences

are part of it but we are integrally

different what is the dynamic when

you’re counseling a couple is is there a

certain dynamic that you notice most

frequently that’s happening between the

two people well people often ask me

where I got my ideas for a minute from

Mars and it was right from counseling

all of all of women’s complaints so the

women who came to me had the same

complaints about men and men had

different complaints I mean literally so

people say how do you know this is true

I said well for 10 years and this is 30

years ago I counseled eight hours a day

and literally every woman who came into

my office when I when they felt safe to

talk about what was most important to

them basically had the same complaints

about their husbands and men had

different complaints about their wives

you know certainly there’s many of those

complaints but one of the biggest ones

for women was men don’t listen and you

know a man listening might say well my

wife doesn’t listen to me and I say well

that’s true but it’s not one of your

biggest complaints men typically come in

complaining that their wives don’t

listen only in response to their wife

saying well you don’t listen to me


you don’t listen to me and they’re both

true but it’s not a man’s biggest

complaint he comes in his number one

complaint is my wife’s not happy you

know she nothing’s ever good enough for

her she’s always complaining and that’s

gonna be the number one complaint men

have which is that women basically he’s

doing his best and in her mind it’s not

good enough she’s not happy and from a

woman’s point of view she doesn’t feel

heard she doesn’t feel seen she doesn’t

she feels neglected she feels not

important she feels he’s not listening

she feels he’s not the guy she married

he’s less interested in her and more

interested in his work or his children

or whatever so how important do you

think it is to be fulfilled within

oneself before someone is pursuing

another person or a relationship or

looking externally for some sort of

validation to validate themselves how

important is that that that is

essentially the foundation of any good

relationship particularly romantic

relationship is to feel that you are

happy and fulfilled on your own and your

partner only adds to your fulfillment

not that you’re dependent on them for

your fulfillment and again that’s going

to be a gender difference for men they

really need to get their fulfillment

from their work I’m giving some advice

to women if you don’t have a if there’s

a man you’re interested in one red flag

is if he doesn’t have a job that’s

fulfilling to him run the other way the

second one you know he’s saying oh you

make me happy my job is awful that’s

really not a good sign and the other

side of this is women who find their

fulfilment primarily from their work

first of all they they should be

fulfilled within themselves as well a

man wants to find and the woman who’s

gonna be most successful in her

relationship has a personal life that’s

very fulfilling to her she has a

personal life not necessarily a work

life that’s a you know drives her and

she’s passionate about it that that’s

okay that’s good but there needs to be

she needs to have time off from work

where she’s being personally fulfilled

through her friendships their children

through her relationship with nature or

with God or with education so it’s not

just all work

Gouri nted this is really significant

that we find a place of happiness within

ourselves then practically speaking

without sort of being a cliche on the

days when your partner’s just in a bad

mood you’re not looking to them you

can’t look to them for anything you have

to give more to them at those times and

instead people usually just get unhappy

about it and get upset why aren’t you

attending to my needs

why aren’t you in a good mood why aren’t

you focused on me you were when I

married you what happened well what

happened is that person has had a bad

day you know they have problems

everybody has problems sometimes and so

if you’re looking to your partner for

this huge support you’re not going to

get it all the time so you pull to

yourself you have to have a life

separate from your partner so you know

since kind of like a cup filling up and

then you overflow with your partner men

feel that you know if my wife is happy

I’m happy

and well that’s a true experience it’s

healthier to think my job is not to make

her happy my job is to make her happier

she’s got to find the baseline and I’ve

got to have my baseline of happiness so

that I’m not always looking to my wife

to fill me up I love that and I truly

love that and I believe in it myself I

think it’s so important that people are

you know fulfilled within themselves

before they attempt to get into this

super romantic drama of relationship

whatever it is and it seems little to me

like people are sort of chasing this

they want a relationship they want to

fall in love and want to get married

there’s it there’s a sort of ideation

that’s happening do you notice this well

I think what you’re saying is true I

have a little bit of a practical

suggestion that kind of conflicts with

that but really it’s right in line with

that we’re talking about the foundation

of a great relationship but then there’s

this thing called dating you do not have

to be totally fulfilled in yourself to

benefit from dating companionship

getting to know people practicing

relationship skills that’s really a key

as well because you know you might think

that you’re fulfilled in life my

that then you get in a relationship and

then you find you have all these

troubles so what you have to do is

recognize that okay if I’m having all

these troubles it’s because I was

fooling myself I thought I was

completely fulfilled but I’m not you

kind of have to have you know some

resistance before you recognize your

problems a lot of people walk around in

denial and I have loved myself I’m happy

with myself I really don’t care what

other people think

boom now you get into a relationship and

you suddenly start caring what other

people think and we should care about

what other people think but we shouldn’t

let it bring us down that’s the problem

with it and we care too much

everything’s about balance in life and

so I recommend people even if they’re

not fulfilled inside of dating is one

form of life you know taking a class and

some things another but not looking for

your soulmate at that point what you’re

doing is is seeking to have a series of

positive dating experiences to help you

get in touch with that part of you that

wants a relationship that can have a

relationship but the problem is this

sort of desperateness people get into

that’s going to be a turn off and that

sabotage is a relationship I’m giving an

example if you were to buy my house your

brain would shift gears into looking to

see about the foundation this would have

mold behind the walls is it when was it

built all these sort of issues come up

if you’re thinking about buying

something but if you’re just visiting my

house you go my gosh such a beautiful

home how nice how nice and that’s the

way people should look towards dating is

to have experience learning to

communicate learning to be intimate

learning to share learning to in a

practical sense men learning to provide

for women what makes them happy on a

date and women learning how to be happy

on a date uh-huh that’s the dynamic is

we have to practice these things and you

know my books I explain a lot of stuff

about how women can get more in

relationships how men can get more in

relationships but you want to practice

these skills when there’s not you know

the perfect person there because if you

fail oh it’s a disaster but if you’ve

got training wheels so to speak it’s

okay to fall one way or the other you’re

not going to hit the

okay that makes a lot of practical sense

na I agree with that

is there a period that you would suggest

where a person is just simply working on

themselves yeah I have no judgment

against that at all everybody’s

different in their journey in life for

me from the age 19 at 28 I was working

on myself I was a celibate monk I

actually think that was the foundation

of my great success today people always

ask me you know what are your great

marketing skills – because a you know

famous person and you know happily

married all these things they always

want to know how do you do it well the

foundation of its kind of what we’re

talking about

I was basically learned how to be happy

and fulfilled on my own my only reason

for not being a monk was to come out and

help my brother and then I realized I

had a talent and a gift to help the

world so there’s always in everybody’s

life times where you just need to work

on yourself that sounds great

so we mentioned red flags on both sides

what are some mean red flags for you

know what are some things that men

should look out for and what are some

things that women should look out for

well I’ll start with women women always

wanting me to give them the red flags by

what’s the issue with him him him him

and I think the big red flag is you you

you which is to look inside yourself and

question how you feel and the person’s

presence that’s a really big one now I

mean there’s obvious ones if he’s a drug

addict run the other way you know if

he’s doesn’t have a job and looking to

you for money run the other way the if

he’s just dangerous run the other way if

he’s married to run the other way

particularly if he’s unavailable type

guy and you’re really turned on to him

run the other way some women get turned

on to unavailable men that’s just

weather design just like some men get

turned on to unavailable women you know

every time you look at a porn video or

something it’s an unavailable woman and

yet people say why would you get turned

on to an unavailable person we’ll just

go by your experience there is a whole

psychological foundation for that which

is that if as a child for a woman you

didn’t feel you had your father’s

attention and affection there can be a

wound there

causes you to always try to seek out men

who are not available because your

father’s not available and try to make

them love you and so as an adult woman

and you you know that if you show a lot

of sexual interest in a guy

he’s gonna love you more I mean men are

attracted to women who have short skirts

we all know that that’s why women wear

short skirts but it doesn’t mean he’s

gonna want you the next day that’s the

dynamic here so the more insecure a man

is the more he’s turned on to sexually

available women as the male energy is to

pursue and if you don’t have any sort of

confidence in yourself then you find a

woman who’s sexually available to you

you go WOW okay this is great

you know builds up your confidence so

but back to women with the red flags the

most important red flag I would suggest

to women is if you have a history of

unavailable men meaning that you got

involved had sex he didn’t call you back

and another guy another guy another guy

in that situation you should stop

trusting your body response which means

that if you have a you meet a guy and

you’re turned on right away I presume

that was the case with these other guys

and you’re so excited and have a sexual

feeling usually that’s that pattern

you’ve got and you need to realize

that’s a red flag if you’re super turned

on right away because the truth is you

know you know the guy you’re you want to

merge with him come on give me a big

deal that’s for women not for men men

can be turned on all the time if that’s

not a problem won’t gets him in in a

moment but for women the big red flag is

if you find that you’re pursuing him

more than he’s pursuing you big red flag

if you feel you have to give more to get

his attention if you’re really sort of

motivated to get him and have to take

actions to get him it’s usually a red

flag what you want is a man who’s

motivated to take action for you that’s

the guy you want you want the guy wants

you more than you want him and then

through the dating process you find out

that you want him just as much so

there’s a journey there of learning to

get to know somebody and falling more

deeply in love

you know there’s this fantasy thing you

fall in love right away it can happen

and it can be real but you want to

really but time test it out as you

really get to know the person find out

the person do you really still love them

so much now for men red flags how do you

feel when you’re in the presence of a

woman does she inspire you to give more

okay now sexual attraction certainly has

to be there right away for guy different

for women women don’t have to feel

sexual attraction right away they feel

an interest of caring a wanting to get

to know him being uplifted by his

presence it’s not so much sexual but

it’s more intellectual of interesting so

we can divide the body into a head heart

and waist and in that situation men

start to waste go to the heart into the

head women start in the head and they go

to the hearts and they go to the waste

that’s a nice progression quite common

in women and men who have successful

relationships so a man has to have of

course a sexual attraction to a woman

right away a be the next step is that he

makes sure that there’s a feeling of I

have to sacrifice a whole lot to win her

love you don’t want to have to sacrifice

too much to win other one’s love but you

want to be able to feel automatically

motivated to give more to her you have

sort of a natural acceptance and a lack

of judgmental-ness towards her

those are like really key things if you

find yourself being picky fine she’s

being really picky with you run the

other way so there’s a few few ideas

okay I like I like those ideas thank you

for sharing those like well let me let

me give you another one I’m just

thinking about okay another one from the

man’s point of view

it it’s ironically I’ve never been asked

the question what’s a red flag for a man

I fast puts a red flag for women I’ve

written books about it like the red flag

for men is when you feel a woman selling

herself on you rather than you want to

sell yourself to her okay I’ll say it

again if a woman’s really coming on to

you and making you love her so to speak

women can seduce men when the woman

seduces you run the other way what you

want as a woman that gives you


you can seduce her that would be the

clarity but I’m an John you’re scaring

me man okay all right so anyway I want

to know why is that scaring you know I

just you know looking at the

relationships that I’ve been in and you

know in in your book you say that

differences attract and what I find is

that the women that I attract into my

life are very hero seeking like they’re

they’re looking to be fixed in some way

or there’s something so deeply troubled

or wrong that there’s a relationship

isn’t really possible and it’s it’s very

passionate and quick when we meet so

it’s it’s very fast so it’s I’m heating

all of your red flags those flags okay

all right got it okay so you know you

know I want to I want to progress a

little bit further okay so let’s say

that a man and woman finds each other

and they’re clicking they’re dating

things are going well

what would you say is the normal

progression of a relationship

what is it the normal pace of a

relationship you know I’m a guy so I

feel like I’m betraying all men when I

say this but you want to go slow part of

our jobs that are instinctively as men

is to go fast and it’s our job to open

the doors to get in there and her job is

to not let you open the door until she’s

ready for this door then this door then

this door

so the awareness is if you have a

history whether you’re a man or woman of

having these really short flings and

they’re not turning out well and you

want it to turn out well okay there’s a

distinction here remember we talked

about the person who’s working on

themselves and so forth if they want to

have short flings fine you know I’ve

known nothing wrong with that it’s human

nature you want some companionship you

want some intimacy you want some sex if

your person other persons into that it’s

consensual great but usually that

doesn’t lead to and I’m just saying

usually there’s always exceptions to

everything doesn’t lead to long term

relationships but I dated I was

considered what’s called a keeper so all

the women was it do long term it goes

slow with me because they didn’t want to

have it be a one night’s yeah but if

you’re just looking for you know fun

there’s nothing wrong with that at the

same time it’s not going to create a

long lasting relationship for you you go

slow you get a chance to experience more

and more of the person you’re dating and

then your body and your mind in your

heart can see is this the person for you

and has time to adjust to this being the

person for you because there’s nobody’s

ever perfect it’s a mistake to think

that you’re gonna find someone

everything’s always going to fit

together perfectly it’s always gonna be

harmonious the matter-of-fact something

you said a little while ago reminded me

of a phenomena that men have a lot I was

I just tell the story it was a fun story

I was I had a limo driver and he heard

you know he saw it was John Graham and

Afra Morris all that and he said yeah

I’m just sort of jinxed and

relationships you know I said oh how

many relationships have you had he says

well you know five significant

relationships and I said well were these

women you really wanted to have a real

relationship with he says yeah I want to

be married have children have a family

and I said so let me don’t tell me

anything more let me describe what your

relationships look like

in the beginning was really wonderful

and she was very appreciative and

everything was harmonious and you

started having sex and the sex was great

and you thought wow this could be the

one and then it seemed like she went

crazy it’s like she had all these

problems and she started you know

talking about problems all the time and

you felt like oh my god this lady’s

crazy she needs therapy

he goes oh my god how did you know how

did you know I said well if you don’t

understand women

for most men they seem crazy but why

would she have so many problems I said

they all have problems life has problems

just women want to talk about him but

they don’t necessarily want to talk

about him till after you’ve been

intimate and then they feel safe and

when they feel safe they start bringing

up issues men they don’t know what they

need to do is learn how to listen and

not try to solve their problems because

they don’t need you to solve their

problems and meeting those problems

don’t need to be solved they just need

to be heard understood

feel a little empathy and then they feel

good again so literally this guy made

all these women go crazy because he

didn’t know how to listen and didn’t

know how to validate after being more

intimate with them it usually happens

after you’ve been more intimate where

woman’s a sort of unresolved issues come

up a or just simply she feels safe to

talk about the things she feels inside

because you have to realize women are

not like men will use a cup example

again unless it’s half-full and some

people look at the cup being half full

and people look at the cup is being half

empty the ones that see the cup is half

full or in denial and the one that sees

a cup is half empty they’re always

unhappy so women have the potential

really to see the whole cup and they

really see a lot more than men do men

can basically be pretty happy and

fulfilled in denial the women who women

are in denial will open up and suddenly

they start seeing once they have sex and

they start to feel safe with you they’ll

open up and then they can pick up

suddenly as half-empty so this is

something men have to learn about women

which is that they’re more like the

weather and they’re unpredictable and

sometimes they’re storming sometimes

it’s hot

sometimes it’s freezing cold

and you know you don’t have to be a

victim to that you just have to have

good relationship skills so if it’s

raining I have an umbrella

you know if it’s cold I have a jacket if

it’s hot you know I’m shorts you know

you just adapt to the situation because

you can do this if you have the skills

which most people don’t have the skills

a and B the which you brought out in the

beginning is the foundation of a good

relationship is you have to be able to

come from this happier place inside more

fulfilled place and to be less

perfectionist we can just say less needy

the bottom line in my book Beyond Mars

and Venus I teach you men masculinity is

not complaining period you can go to

guys and make jokes about complaints you

can ask what you want you can say what

you like but to complain and whine is

total turnoff to woman and argue and

fighter oh my god you’re gonna turn off

and kill the sex drive in her and it

happens to most couples just because

women get angry some ingo of you’re

angry I’m angry you know if you’re gonna

complain I’m gonna complain it’s kind of

like this ping-pong match and it’s see

let me give you an example of it you

have a a woman come in with a lot of

complaints and she wants a divorce man I

talked to him privately has to say

what’s the deal here what’s the point

give me that give me the big problem in

one sentence he says she’s not happy if

she’s happy everything would be fine and

that really is the big point for men we

just want a happy wife to a certain

extent our needs are much less our needs

are greater when it comes to our career

in our work our needs for relationship

become enormous when we’re not getting

it but the bottom line is what we need

most of the field were providing for her

happiness that we’re providing and make

a difference in her life whereas for her

as of them were complex she needs to

feel that we do make a difference in her

life and that’s a big challenge for

women because women you know when they

don’t get what they need they go into

their male side and they assert

themselves which is alright but I’m not

gonna wait on him let’s do it myself and

then okay if he can’t do it right then

I’ll just do it myself well if you don’t

want to help me well I’ll just do it

myself what I mean I want to go and do

that I’ll just do it myself a little

that’s fine but they just go into

they’ll just do it myself and now

they’re men you know the man the male

ego the male sense of self the

self-esteem comes from look what I can

do and the female sense of self comes

from look what I have look what I

get the female power which women are

losing they’re just so unhappy today

first of all it’s the power to be happy

second it’s the power to get other

people to do stuff for you so you’re not

doing everything all the time the number

one complaint women have this is the

number one complaint women have in their

lives not about men it’s about them

their life is they’re overwhelmed

there’s too much quote to do there’s not

too much to do that’s the world you

created you choose your life which all

there’s so much to do there’s so much to

do okay don’t have time for myself yes

you do but they can’t they can’t find it

and they need help to do it and that’s

why I’ve written the whole book is help

them let go this unhappiness

sleeplessness that they get from being

too far on their male side when women’s

male hormones become greater and their

female hormones become less that happens

by the choices you make I give women the

bright choices when you make those

choices to come back to your feminine

hormones you’re happier you’re more

fulfilled you may not choose to run for

president because it’s a pretty tough

job I mean he said what is it 12:15 our

job you working all the time just

destroys your female hormones hormones

are produced when you’re relaxed when

you’re happy when you’re nurturing when

you’re loving when you’re when life is

graceful and fluid male hormones get

produced when life is tough it’s dirty

as dangerous and you do the hard stuff

and you don’t complain about it now

those are extremes okay I’m just talking

extremes I like comfort I got five-star

hotels I’ve got a great car I got a

beautiful home I got a great sex with my

wife that’s all my female side did that

so we want in life as a balance of both

where I see the dysfunction happens is

and it’s happening rampantly today is

that men are too emotional and women are

too work oriented they’re too detached

many women listening this program right

now are saying why can’t I fall in love

with a guy nobody’s good enough you’re

on the outside you’re on your male side

you need to come back to your female

side where you’re receptive and open and

we’re loving you’re happier then what

happens is you find men are more

attractive and you find yourself being

more accepting and you find yourself

being more appreciative and you find

yourself a good partner so doctor let me

let me just pause you there I apologize

for interrupting you but okay so chaos

okay so so much to process in all that I

so I want to know you know is does this

come down to just neural chemicals and

also for a woman is it about letting the

men help her is that an issue you see as

well well that’s two questions first is

no chemicals nothing is just neuro

chemicals so the body is really

projection of your spirit but your

spirit functions through this body and

the body we look to talk about the

differences between men and women it’s

very simple you know if your and this

moves into the answer the next question

is it a matter of letting a man do

something for you yes anybody can do

this experiment ask someone to do

something for you all right even better

have someone offer you no you can’t do

this but next time somebody offers

something what to do for you that you

can do yourself say sure go ahead thank

you notice how your body changes your

hormones change when you let someone do

something for you something that you can

do on your own now certainly if it’s

something you can’t do on your own

more female hormones would get purdue’s

but even when somebody makes a gesture

to do something for you like what’s the

old what is some of the standard

romantic things it’s a going and getting

flowers for a woman okay she can buy

flowers what’s the big deal nope he buys

flowers it has a different reaction than

when she buys him at the grocery store

second you go on a date together and he

opens the car door for you well you can

open a car door what’s the big deal but

when he opens the car door it’s a

consideration it’s as simple it’s a

gesture saying you know you’re special

you’re important and really what it’s

saying is you do so much for so many

people all day long tonight let me do

things for you

that’s romance why is it called romance

because it stimulates estrogen estrogen

levels have to double in a woman’s body

before she can be romantic have romantic

feelings and that’s biology but it’s

also spirit it’s also mine the mind has

to recognize I don’t have to do it all

someone’s doing this for me I can trust

this person I appreciate this person

this person is nice

that’s all mental stuff going on but the

reaction to all of that is hormonal

changes so there is never one thing it’s

a two-way street body mind heart all

that come together yeah but you know it

what’s wonderful about understanding


this is so physical at such reality it’s

such a fact that a woman cannot have a

climax unless her estrogen levels double

period done so then you start going okay

now what what can create estrogen and a

woman well whenever a woman feels she

needs help and somebody helps her her

estrogen levels rise up now if she

doesn’t feel she needs help and you help

a woman they might rise up a little but

at least it’s something and you’re

moving in the right direction which

means letting herself depend on someone

which is scary for women today

particularly today because their whole

self-esteem is all wrapped up in being

like men see how much money I can make

see what I can do I’m independent but

it’s an evolutionary shift here where

women are not going to be so dependent

on men for survival and security they’re

shifting into gears where they depend on

men for emotional support that’s a new

realm of relationships is it’s all about

the lack of or the abundance of

emotional support that women and men

need in order to go to a higher level

self-improvement self-development that

would be referring back to Maslow’s

ideas of when you fulfill the lower

needs then higher needs become very

significant now we’re in a stage of

development and particularly in the

beginning of the American culture

freedom you know everybody’s equal and

we want freedom well that’s a that’s a

big big thing huge evolutionary shift

and what we want relationships is

particularly women they want the freedom

to be independent and men and within as

vocal about it but men want the intimacy

these are our two higher needs before we

get to enlightenment needs is intimacy

and independence for women they’re

seeking out what they’ve had to suppress

which is independence and men are moving

towards what they’ve had to suppress

which is being emotional but men are too

emotional now they become too needy too

dependent on things that make them happy

like drugs and pornography and junk food

and all that alcohol you get to

dependent you become weak whereas women

are wanting to become too independent

it’s the lack of balance and we can see

on a biological level what that balance

looks like it’s like a man I

have to have at least 3040 times more

testosterone than a woman otherwise I’d

be depressed and have a heart attack

immense testosterone levels go down

their libido goes away their motivations

and life become away they start to want

it to be tire they don’t want to work so


become more emotional more depressed and

this is of course what’s happening with

men all over the world today due to

pesticides and toxicity I read put right

books on all that to these day you know

people don’t even know pesticides are

hormones you’re taking hormones so when

you eat meat in the junk food meat fast

food meat that’s all hormones in there

they put the hormones in the cattle goes

right in your body and for men these

hormones suppress your testosterone for

women they throw their hormones out of

balance and keep women from feeling the

need to make hormones and which causes

women to feel that they don’t have needs

for a man that all needs for romance

they don’t need for connection there is

in denial of a very part of them which

is not psychological do not literally

their body is not sending the right

messages to the brain okay wow it’s a

lot to absorb and take in you you know

what I’m hearing the most is that a lot

of the proportion between you know a

healthy balanced relationship is first

and foremost the internal balance that

we we all should have before seeking a

partner but also communication and how

we’re communicating and listening to

each other both men and women yeah not

listening for men appreciating for men

you said it wonderfully but I just want

a subtlety distinction I just got back

from nine days in China and when I get

home first thing my wife did is I’m so

happy to see you and she had a big smile

and she’s so happy I’m there it doesn’t

mean she doesn’t have all issues to

bring up you know with we got lights

have to be fixed certain things have to

be changed or certain pills have to be

paid all those problems she’s not gonna

present me with that she’s just gonna

present me with that pure happiness that

you had when you were dating a woman and

she’s just so happy to see you and had

such fun she’s gonna greet me with that

she’s not in denial of the other things

we’ll get to that

but you know it’s upon greeting each

other is such a key thing that men need

to feel that hero energy which is that I

am important to her in her life she

needs that feel she’s important to me so

I find her I called her right when I get

to the airport you know I’m here I’m

safe everything’s fine

and of course I’ve done it every day by

email well one of the things women need

is to know where their partner is at all


oh I’ll have another GPS thing so I’ll

send her notes and send her little

things including her in my life that she

is a part of my life and letting her

know she’s more important to anybody

else and certainly when she starts to

bring up issues I’ll hear it was so

sweet last night after not being home

for nine days I come back and the

seasons coming on and I’m listening to

my wife one of our daughters is there

but I sound like a three-hour discussion

on everything which is going on and I’m

not in that role of trying to be the

fix-it solve it but asking more

questions that’s what women need most is

men you’re like converse by mainly

asking questions and showing interest in

what they have to say and then what you

say you try to be more supportive rather

than try to fix them or change them or

whatever and my wife’s very careful not

to do the same with me

you know this complaining stuff she

rarely rarely complains if they are

there little things and if there’s

something big she’ll ask you know a

complaint is just a frustrated request

basically it’s it’s a poor communication

skill to complain you know if you

complain you’re late why are you always

late well that’s just a negative message

that will push a man’s testosterone down

as opposed to next time I really

appreciate if you come on time or at

least call me it makes a big difference

for me such a different way of

communicating for man to learn to

communicate towards women the message I

care I understand and I respect you and

I’ve written huge chapters in each for

those three words you know men are

always the one who got the respect but

actually women need the respect more

when you respect someone estrogen goes

up ironically when you appreciate

someone testosterone goes up when you

forgive someone smus takes when you’re

very accepting a person who they are

your testosterone goes up when you’re

being punished if you’re getting

disapproval if you having something

complaining about you testosterone


someone can depend on you ask for help

they trust you they woman can feel this

is the guy can depend on not for

everything see that’s where it becomes a

problem as women I think well he didn’t

do this so I can’t trust him no you can

course you can trust them there’s other

things you can trust them for you can’t

trust him for everything but we go to

these extremes as people all or nothing

another problem in relationships as a

lot of information I’m sure no no

worries this is that in my book Beyond

Mars and Venus I tackle these ideas of

how all of all of our behaviors and

whatever either stimulate male hormones

female hormones and so then it becomes

very clear that per man but when you’re

upset you’re always too far on your

female side period therefore what can

you do that when crease your male side

and so and simply put anything you’re

good at is gonna raise your testosterone

so if you’re upset with your partner

forget it and do something you’re good


stop talking to her the worst thing you

can ever do when you’re upset is talk

couples do this all the time because

they think talking’s the answer to


no when your heart is open then talking

is wonderful but if your heart’s not

open it’s closed well when your heart is

closed always there’s a hormonal

imbalance going on your body mints

testosterone levels and literally going

down an estrogen is being produced

that’s biological when woman’s heart is

closed their testosterone is going up

and their estrogen is going down

therefore if a woman is upset with a man

she must do something that will increase

her estrogen talking is really good but

not to a man you talk about your

complaints to another woman you talk

about your complaints to somebody you’re

not upset with and then it’s no longer a

complaint it’s a sharing see there’s a

distinction between sharing and

complaining complaining as I’m sharing

my feelings in order for you to change

your behavior

that’s a complaint sharing as opposed to

complaining it’s just talking about your

feelings without the intent to change

somebody it’s very hard for women to

share their feelings with a guy without

the intent to change him if her heart is


like if you have a chance I’d really

love it if you do this it’d be really

nice if you did that this feel

better when you call me and don’t do

this you don’t feel any sort of emotion

packed demand and most women can’t do

that they just can’t so the beginning

steps to do that is when you’re upset

you feel this demanding quality inside

of you then you go and talk to a

girlfriend about and just share and

should give you some support and then

you feel your hormones will change I’m

just sharing without trying to change

somebody will increase her estrogen that

will actually open her heart period so

there’s certain things we can do

biologically behaviors that trigger our

biology then when the biology changes

were able to do those behaviors that we

know will work you see when your heart

is closed you can’t do the behaviors

that will work in terms of talking to

your partner you can say the exact words

I just said like a non-demanding request

you can use the words but if your heart

is closed it comes across as a demand

everybody knows that you can hear in the

tone of voice

they’d be experts say you know this is

not my expertise just read this and many

many books that you know 80 90 percent

of the message you give to somebody is

all in the tone of voice yeah and we got

a couple questions that came in people

want to know this comes from Bangor they

want to know is a relationship more

successful if the female is the dominant

partner yeah I don’t think you can say

that’s a major factor in a relationship

we’re looking at equality in a

relationship there’s all kinds of

relationships there’s there’s if a

woman’s a dominant and a guy’s a

submission submissive and he likes that

that that’s okay it’s what you like and

what your preference is dominant however

tends to imply masculine energy now you

could be dominant and not have masculine

energy and be very feminine which is

very clear about what you like and what

you want that’s often considered

dominant but actually if it’s done

without demand it’s very feminine so I’m

going to step out of the world of how

people interpret dominant and step back

into my interpretation of masculine

feminine as if a woman is on her

feminine side you’re gonna have a great

relationship if a woman’s in her


you’re gonna have a crummy relationship

and Dominic could be coming from

feminine are from masculine I do want to

make a little comment there’s a there’s

a thing you hear all the time from

people have been married for 30 40 years

as and they say what’s the secret of

your sex success and guys will say you

know I just learned to say yes to

everything she says okay yeah what you

know is on a surface they stayed married

all those years but what’s happening the

bedroom probably nothing everybody’s

different some people are okay with that

that’s fine but the younger generation

in my generation who I am I want I want

great sex I want great passion I’m not

just harmony the relationship but also

passion and sometimes we sacrifice

passion in order to create harmony and

then can do this much easier than women

just well women can do it too just deny

deny deny just go yeah whatever you want

yeah whatever you want yeah whatever you


that’s gonna kill his sex drive

and if that’s okay with them that’s fine

and that is okay with lots of couples if

you look at cut married couples most of

them don’t have sex after 10 20 years

that’s just what’s happening not okay

with me

and and so look at this massive porn


I mean porn is ridiculous to me I laugh

at it because I’ve got the real thing I

mean literally if you’re satisfied in

your relationship with a real woman

you don’t need porn and it looks silly

because they’re just acting and it’s all

just fake why would I want to be with

somebody who’s not real but men don’t

have this quality relationship I’m

talking about so then porn becomes like

an addiction hmm okay this one comes

from tides if I’m saying that correctly

with the changes going on in society I

feel as though women have to be more

aggressive demonstrate more masculine

traits any suggestions on how to hack

female biology to become more aggressive

less nurture more creator slash fixer

I’m the expert on just the opposite I

wrote a whole book on just the opposite

of women today how to come back to their

feminine side is really the challenge

for women today if you really felt you

could trust others and you

I felt supported in your life there’d be

no problem asserting yourself women only

become aggressive and assertive because

they’re weak on their female side you

know this person doesn’t feel safe being

female therefore I have to become male

to get ahead you don’t have to become

male to get ahead you do have to learn

some good communication skills of how

men operate in the workplace but the

actual energy of success for women is

the more you suppress your female the

harder you’re going to work and the less

results you’re going to get it’s our

female energies that attract success our

female energies attract opportunities

female energies attract a big yes from

other people that’s what you want and

that’s the success in the world and

women are becoming more successful in

the world there’s no doubt about it

however their health and their happiness

levels are going down because they’re

not able to you know over time they get

too far over to their male side cannot

come back to their female side so I

really don’t write books on how women

can be more aggressive or I do write

books on how to be more assertive so one

simple thing is learn how to ask without

demanding you can stead of saying to a

guy you know you should do this say

would you do this instead of saying to a

guy hey could you do that

a guy will say yeah but then forget to

do it if you want him to remember to do

it you say would you would use a very

vulnerable thing could you pick up my

clothes at the cleaners and you say no I

can’t you don’t feel any sort of

rejection because they’re saying they

really can’t do it

but if you say will you pick up the my

clothes of the cleaners you’re really

making a request and if he turns you


it’s like he’s rejecting you so would

you is a much more vulnerable thing and

vulnerability is femininity I just

highly suggest women if you want more

success in the world learn how to be

successful as a woman and success will

come to you as opposed to running after

it love that love that answer um okay so

one or two more questions dr. grey are

you you spoke about the spiritual aspect

of things earlier I want to know about

this term Twin Flames soulmates

there’s this sort of romantic notion

that is ascribed to these two ideations

of this perfect romance that just falls

into your lap what has created that

within our culture within our society to

bring it sort of full circle what has

created that in our minds is it watching

TV is it movies well this it’s a it’s a


concept thousands of years people

believe this to be the case is that

there’s this compliment to you that

you’re destined to meet and fall in love

with and live a life with you know I can

contribute to that you know as a monk

for nine years I have all the esoteric

experiences and I really don’t teach

this a lot but isn’t she asks a question

you know I remember many past lives and

I also remember life between lives and I

do remember before this life I don’t

remember it so clearly just like I just

went to China I don’t remember all the

details of what just happened but I have

these certain experiences from the trip

that I can remember same thing that past

lives significant moments in whatever

and I do remember planning to be married

to my wife Bonnie so she is a soul mate

a soul mate as someone that you sort of

are destined to be with however I was

with Bonnie I first met Bonnie she was

married to somebody else and then I’m

and you know she was very nice a sweet

lady then at another time I when I was

no longer a monk I met her again and had

an affair with her the last a couple

years and she already had two little

children and I really wasn’t into having

kids so we didn’t get married then I

married somebody else and then that

lasted a couple years and I just called

a banach one day and bingo right then I

talked to our heard her voice I

remembered at that point I heard bells

ringing and now it wasn’t like bells

ring his heavenly music part of the

thing for me as a yogi meditator I used

to fast and listen to go into deep

meditations for days without eating and

then I would go into an altered state

where I would hear the music of the

universe which is very very beautiful

it’s like heavenly music you might say

and so when I heard her voice this time

I did hear the music and I did have the

brief memory if we’re gonna come

together so there are certain things

that are destined so one might think of

a das’s soulmate and that’s why those

things are there there are people in the

past who have had experiences like that

so having said that I’ll come back to

being practical teacher that I am my

book beyond Mars Venus I talked about

Rome eight verses soulmate and and that

and I’ll talk about a predetermined

relationships or so forth because that’s

not most people’s belief system however

I do talk about row mates row mates are

when the man basically does male stuff

and the woman basically does female

stuff and there’s no there’s no crossing

over the divide men are men women are

women men of the providers women the

homemakers men are tough women are soft

you know all that you know stereotypical

male female stuff that’s a role you have

a role to play man’s role is to be the

provider woman’s role is to be the

loving nurturing partner okay now we’ve

got something called soulmate which I

define as not necessary you’re destined

partner and so forth that’s a different

belief system than most people have in a

practical sense soulmate is a partner

that’s it has the ability and the

willingness and the skills to support

you in expressing your authentic self

all of who you are we have a soul that

comes more fully into play when we

express all parts of who we are to a

certain extent relationships in the past

had less soul this is more soul means

more authentic self which means for

women to experience both the freedom of

their independence along with the

vulnerability and sensitivities of their

emotional side the intimacy that can

occur and for men the freedom to

experience their their more intimate

vulnerable self along with their

independent self so simple said for men

to be both masculine and feminine

according to your own unique balance and

for women to be both masculine and

feminine and their own unique balance

and having a relationship that supports

you and both those qualities that would

be a soulmate

relationship so I like that definition

is very practical twin flame many people

refer to twin flame as a couple who get

together and

their compatibility is that they have

some goal that they share and that

they’re very much the same in terms of

maybe their teachers and they’d love to

go around and teach together but maybe

they’re both artists and they love being

in the art field together there tend to

be just like each other they’re more

like each other the soul mates are

complements to each other and I do see

this as a reality out there there’s some

couples that are more complements and

some who are you know almost like

brother a brother and sister almost the

same but mostly what I teach is soul

mate which is how to embrace the

differences when they show up in a

positive way whereas the Twin Flames

they sort of they come together to do

some project on the planet or do some

project and life together okay thank you

so much for answering that I felt like

you know it’s been going around a lot

and I wanted to clarify a little bit

more you know let me interrupt because I

really didn’t answer your question which

is the best best part of your question

which is yeah the naive expectation that

a soul mate is going to be always in

harmony and perfect naive expectation

that your twin Flynn what the twin flame

is that there’s no challenges or

problems in the relationship that’s what

throws everybody off you fall in love

and you think just because you’re deeply

in love with someone that there’s not

going to be challenges it’s like saying

there’s not going to be gravity if you

live on planet Earth there’s gonna be

gravity if you’re in an if you’re in a

marriage there’s going to be gravity

there’s gonna be challenges that allow

you to become stronger that allow you to

become more loving and ultimately I

believe we’re really here as souls to

learn love to become more loving and

let’s say I come by if I want to build

muscle I go to a gym and I don’t pick up

light weights I pick up heavier and

heavier and heavier weights that’s how

you grow is through challenge if you

want to grow in your ability to love you

get married and you overcome those

challenges if you don’t get married it’s

you don’t really grow and love you just

go from one partner to another to

another maybe you can grow a little bit

but the big challenge is to keep coming

back to love after somebody

disappoints you and every marriage

there’ll be times when you’re

disappointed dr. gray Wow

such a so much learning so much

information and we just scratched the

surface how can people find your work

how can people find beyond Mars and

Venus give us that information please my

websites Mars Venus com beyond Mars

Venus the new book is probably in most

bookstores it’s also on Amazon and parts

and Noble all those places have it the

it’s still in hardback you can get every

day different podcasts of me as well at

Mars Venus calm and most interesting is

for women only

Lauren gray who’s my adult daughter also

teaches classes for women how to sustain

your feminine energies while in a

relationship with a man uh-huh

that’s tough and she really goes into

the details of it the book about that is

beyond Mars and Venus which I wrote but

she teaches online coaching for women

and that in that course so she does lots

of video blogs that are free and people

can watch those and I think particularly

women like them although online I

checked the statistics and I see that

more men watched them because she’s

always explaining women to men and men

to women and they have a woman’s point

of view is sometimes better than a man’s

point of view very true dr. Greene thank

you so much your time we are gonna get

out of here folks thank you so much for

listening you have been listening to the

human experience

my name is Xavier katana my guest dr.

John Gray thank you guys so much for

tuning in

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