Transcript for Dean Karnazes on Running Marathons, Mindset, Endurance and more

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strangers thank you for listening I

reached my hand out to touch him on the

shoulder and my hand went right through

him and I thought that was a

hallucination not only that it was a

hallucination that talked to me so I

literally walked out of the bar and

Binkley I had these you know these silk

boxer shorts on they were kind of

comfortable exciting the own running

gear and I took off my pants and just

started running most people you know I

think in modern society don’t even know

what it’s like to be in the wilderness

but I’m more comfortable off running in

the wilderness by myself than I am in

groups of people he had said to me you

know before I started doing this hey you

know one day you’re gonna run a hundred

miles non-stop I would have laughed I

mean never said I have anything like

driving 100 miles non-stop no oh my god

that’s funny I’m great joke he’s like no

no you’re you’re number 29 you’re ahead

of Oprah and you’re one behind George

Clooney kidding


what’s up guys Xavier katana here and

wow what an interesting episode with

Dean Karnazes who was listed by Time

magazine as one of the most influential

people in the world I mean he’s been

featured on all of these different media

outlets covering what he does he’s an

ultra marathon runner you get into every

aspect of running in this episode it’s a

really interesting episode on how

running compares to existence in light

mint now the challenges that we face in

our everyday lives and how we can carry

Bena weight into our everyday existence

so I hope you guys enjoy this

conversation thank you so much for us


the human experience is in session my

guest for today is mr. Dean Karnazes

Dean my good sir welcome to hxp

thanks for having me on very interesting

background that you have why don’t you

spell that out for our listeners thanks

so I run long distances I guess how it

is best framed an ultramarathon is

anything beyond a marathons so typically

the runs I do are you know 50 miles 100

miles sometimes 200 miles and these are

all non-stop so you know people

sometimes wonder when they hear about a

guy running a hundred miles how does

this work well you know that the

starting gun goes off and you start

running and when you reach the finish

line you finish and hopefully within 24

hours though that’s what an

ultra-marathoner does it’s such a

fascinating thing to sort of create a

livelihood around

how did running become your passion I

had easy well you know it is it’s been a

lifelong passion in fact I I used to run

home from kindergarten when I was six

years old love to run ran competitively

as a freshman in high school on the

cross-country team and then literally

stopped running I hung up my running

shoes that you know put the cliche I

didn’t run for 15 years and then I was

in a bar on my 30th birthday in San

Francisco you know doing what everyone

does on their 30th birthday I was in

there drinking with my friends and you

know rad midnight I said I was leaving

and they said well you know why you

leaving the night’s young let’s let’s

have another round of tequila and I said

no I’m gonna run 30 miles right now to

celebrate my 30th birthday and they

laughed at me yeah like you are you’re

not what are you drunk and I said yeah I

am drunk but I’m still gonna do it so I

literally walked out of the bar and

thankfully I had these you know these

silk boxer shorts on they were kind of

comfortable exciting own running gear

and I took off my pants and just started

running and ran straight through the

night 30 miles later became a runner


you know there’s nothing interesting

about running I used to run not

competitively or anything just in

college I used to run a lot and

something that I noticed personally was

there’s almost like this sort of wall

pain threshold if you’re running for

long enough and you just you know

everything in your body just aches and

hurts and you just you don’t want to run

anymore but if you just push through

that wall it’s like you just start to

glide have you notice something similar

very much so and you know you’re talking

to a guy that’s run probably 100,000

miles collectively over the course of my

lifetime and that same phenomena still

happens to me running is profound in

that regard I mean it’s such a simple

act right I mean you’re just kind of

locomoting a little bit faster than a

walk but there’s found power in it

because it’s not only the physical

activity of running but it’s mastering

your mind as well like you said so much

of running is overcoming the resistance

to stop okay which is constantly in your

mind right I mean it hurts and you’re

you know you’re – thing stop stop stop

and you know you’re having to kind of

override that with discipline and

fortitude and then there’s great reward

if you can do so yeah yeah I mean you

have quite the resume just I mean Time

magazine named you one of the top 100

most influential people in the world

your work has been featured on 60

minutes The Late Show the list goes on

on CNN Howard Stern and PR when did this

ultramarathon aspect of yourself when

did that start becoming this sort of

sensation or this would you frame it as

success when you’re featured on Time


yeah well you know battery on that mean

it literally I got a call from my buddy

and he’s like oh you’re not gonna

believe this you’re one of Time

Magazine’s 100 most influential people

in the world oh my god that’s funny I’m

great though he’s like no no you’re your

number 29 you’re ahead of Oprah and

you’re one behind George Clooney kidding

and he’s like no go look look look at

the list and I got the magazine and

looked at the list I thought you know

they don’t even inform me do you for

being evaluated you know they don’t want

anyone to influence the voting so

literally that’s how I ended up on the

list and even when I hear you say that I

think you’re talking about some other

guy I mean people say you know you were

invited to run through the White House

you met with the first lady you’re the

first person in history to run through

the White House literally and I’m like

oh yeah that’s right that was me people

say you you know you you’ve won all

these awards these accolades you know

you’ve been featured on 60 minutes know

you’ve got an ESPN espy award you know

what else is there and I’m thinking hold

that I haven’t done anything in my life

I’ve you know it’s just it doesn’t sound

like you’re talking about me cuz I’m

just a runner you know that’s it I can

respect that connection to just being an

athlete really you dedicating yourself

to that you’re also an author

how did writing come into play with this

for you

so I had always wanted to write a book I

had aspired to writing a book sometime

in my life as many people do right I

mean many people stay you know at some

point I want to try writing a book so I

finally said now is the time to do it

but I wrote a book and I thought ok if I

can convince five of my buddies to buy

this book I’m gonna be really lucky and

the next thing I know it’s on the New

York Times bestseller list it was called

ultra marathon man confessions of an

all-night runner and that book has sold

over quarter million copies it’s been

printed in 18 languages

and I thought who wants to read some

obscure you know manuscript about a guy

running you know hundreds of miles in

the wilderness by himself but I thought

you know there’s something in the

message here that that transcends

running and and people read and that

resonates with people so I got another

book deal I wrote another book and it

sold well you know same sort of thing

and now you know I’ve written my fourth

book and all of them have done really

really well but I think you can’t just

write about running as you know if

you’ve ever watched a marathon for

instance on television I think you know

it’s a guy running you know there’s

maybe ten seconds of excitement toward

the finish but it’s hard just to write

about running because running is is

boring let’s face it but the the

messages around persistence and you know

overcoming adversity and and dealing

with obstacles those are universal

themes that transcendence

running it’s amazing how much you know

we had Laird Hamilton on the big wave

surfer and it’s it’s amazing how much

there is this sort of cross-section of

you know life advice and how just

maintaining you know the healthy living

you know in your mind let’s say but it’s

so funny you consider you know what

layer does is healthy I’m thinking my

god that guy ride your mountains of

water or and you know me doing what I’m

doing is I don’t know if that’s

necessarily you know healthy running

hundreds of miles but it’s a bit extreme

but you’re right it’s almost like this

life lesson or this so much of it

translates into what we can use to live

a healthy life and gain perspective on

life in some way you mentioned you know

these messages transcend running what

have you found for yourself has been a

major obstacle for you

the biggest obstacle for me is the guy I

see every morning in the mirror and I

think that’s the same with anyone I

think my preconceived you know ideas of

what is and what is impossible or what

holds me back and the only way I can

break through those limitations is by

crossing the line and pushing myself to

do things that I once would have thought

was entirely impossible to do I mean you

had said to me you know before I started

doing this hey you know one day you’re

gonna run a hundred miles non-stop I

would have laughed I’m I never said I

don’t even like driving 100 miles

non-stop myself and I would have said

that’s impossible a human being you know

I know what it feels like to run one

mile non-stop it hurts it burns it’s

painful there’s no way I could you know

run a hundred miles and then go do it

you just you prove to yourself that

you’re more capable than you think you

are and you can go further than you

think you ever could there’s such a

large basis on what we think we can do

and what we we think we can’t do it what

we regard as impossible in it and I

really liked what you said about the the

opponent being you know just you the

person you’ve seen the mirror every day

how do you connect what you deemed to be

impossible and what’s your reference to

running a race running a hundred miles

or setting yourself up to run this

hundred miles how much of your mentality

predicts or you know puts you in this

sort of position to you know succeed in

running this long-distance or bail well

well you know you hit on a good point

and you know running is is very symbolic

I mean most people can relate to running

it’s identifiable you know riding a big

wave like layer does it’s admirable but

it’s hard for the layperson to really

identify with that unless you’re a

surfer I mean I’m a surfer so I have

great respect for what he does but

unless you serve you can’t really

identify what it means to ride a 30-foot

wave we’re running people know because

they’ve done it almost every human has

run and you know it’s very symbolic in

that regard because if you’ve run a mile

you can say okay well I’ve run a mile

non-stop let me see if I can run two

miles non-stop

well maybe three miles and to me

oh yeah I just ran 50 miles non-stop let

me see if I can run a hundred and then I

ran a hundred miles non-stop and then I

said I heard learned of this 135 mile

footrace and I said let me see if I can

run 135 miles non-stop did that and then

I heard of this 200 mile 12-person relay

race and I thought I wonder if I could

do that by myself as a team of one and I

ran 200 miles non-stop and I kept

pushing the envelope further and further

until I failed and you brought up a very

good point until you fail you really

don’t know how far you can go so I push

myself over the edge and that failed and

I’ll tell you what I learned a lot more

and I always do from my failures that I

do for my success I mean when you

succeed you know you high-five at the

finish line you got the medal around

your neck I did it I pulled it off when

you fail you can look inward you get

very introspective and you dissect where

did things go wrong what could I do

better in the future

and those are the best learnings to me

are failures not successes absolutely is

there one specific moment that you can

think of as a failure where you learned

the most from well there’s a race I just

alluded to it of the Badwater

ultramarathon so it’s better no yeah

it’s 135 mile continuous foot race

across Death Valley we’re in the middle

of summer and you know Death Valley is

the most inhospitable the hottest place

on earth and you know temperatures can

get up over 130 degrees during this race

which you know running a hundred and

thirty-five miles in 130 plus degree

temperatures is it’s inhumane I mean you

you it’s it’s torture and you just think

it’s impossible well I set out to do it

and the first year I emptied it at Mile

about mile 78 it was the middle of the

night and I was on this you know

two-lane highway on the middle of the


I hadn’t seen anyone for hours no cars

it passed me pitchblack RIA a.m. and I

see an old miner forty-niner

walking across the road toward me yeah

he had a big grey beard

overalls and he comes walking across the

road he holds out a gold pan and he says

water water I need water

Hey oh my god so I was carrying this tan

held water bottle and I started I turned

it upside down and started to aspirate

it in his old pan

and I heard the water sizzling on the

asphalt and actually I reached my hand

out to touch him on the shoulder and my

hand went right through him and I

thought that was a hallucination not

only that it was a hallucination that

talked to me yeah and then I saw big

dinosaurs off in the distance in the

desert of the night and next thing I

know I wake up in an air-conditioned

hotel room looking up at my crew saying

you know where am i I’m supposed to be

running across Death Valley and they

said you know we were driving around in

the middle of night looking all over for


we found we saw your shoes on the side

of the road we found you passed out on

the roadside you literally ran yourself

into exhaustion just collapsed on the

roadside we picked you up we drove you

into this hotel the closest hotel and

you’ve been asleep for six hours with

air conditioning on so that was a pretty

spectacular failure

or something that you learned from that

from being in those conditions and it’s

not completing the race

you know one thing I learned is that you

really have to heat acclimate so my body

just wasn’t accustomed you know I would

run when it was warm but never when it

was that close to you know 130 degrees

so what I what I started to do is I

start to run in the middle of summer

with all my North Face

you know ski wear on put on my big puffy

you know parka and I’d run in you know

ninety degree heat wearing big D

clothing which you know increased the

heat incredibly inside internally and

I’d also go into the vasana at the gym

and do set the push-ups and sit up

to get more custom to the heat those are

you know some of the things that I did

so let’s take our audience into the

mentality of what’s happening in your

mind as you’re running so you start this

race and as you mentioned it’s gonna

bring the Badwater ultramarathon up it’s

a 135 miles it’s 130 degrees out and you

know so it’s sweltering heat as you

start you know mile one what’s going on

in your brain

well you know the one thing that really

attracts me to ultramarathon is that

there’s a solidarity of focus I mean

there’s one thing in your mind and that

is reaching the finish line there’s a

single goal and it might be a daunting

goal but at least you know what’s

expected there’s a rules of engagement

are very simple the gun goes off and

start running to succeed you reach the

finish line if you don’t you fail and

let’s face it life is ambiguous you know

the the finish line moves around a lot

right you’re never really sure if you’re

going in the right direction as well as

you’re typically bombarded with noise

right in the course of any given day I

mean you’ve got wheats coming in tact

you know there’s ads you know there’s

just lots of stuff coming your way when

you’re running an ultra marathon all of

that disappears and there’s just one

single goal in your mind for a very long

amount of time and that is reaching the

finish line and to me it’s almost like a

zen-like state that you put yourself in

and it’s very rejuvenating it’s very

cleansing just to have one thing on your

mind for so long because it’s not

something that typically we do in this

modern era ever and but but it’s a very

human thing to do but just something we

don’t do in this modern world hearing

you describe it so simple the lack of

this sort of complexity in the way that

we are just inundated with information

all the time all the time and so the way

you put it is just so beautifully put

can you describe that sort of flow state

aspect of you’re just cruising and you

know that there’s no hesitation or doubt

in your mind that you’re going to cross

that finish line you know when you’re in

that zen-like state you’re not thinking

about the finish line I’ve tried his

best to focus on exactly where my mind

goes when I entered this place and what

you’re focused on is the present moment

of time is the now I mean we’re always

we’re thinking about the finish line

we’re thinking about something in the

future or reflecting on the past or were

preoccupied with something we’re doing

but when you get into the zen-like state

you don’t think about anything except

you know putting one foot in front of

the other

to the best of your ability so you’re

really that granular with your thoughts

I’m just thinking take your next step as

best you can if your next step as best

you can

I’m not thinking about wow the finish

line is you know 60 miles ahead I’ve got

a long way to go well I’m not thinking

about you know the finish line’s right

around the corner I’m almost done I’m

just being in the present moment of time

to here and now and not reflecting on

the past not cluttering our line and

with any other thought other than what’s

right there in front of me at that

moment so I mean just to put our

audience kind of more in this sort of

perspective of doing this ultramarathon

there’s no emergency team sort of

following you there’s nothing like that

right it’s just you in the road correct

it really depends on the various races I

mean some sometimes it’s exactly as you

described it and even you know more

removed there is no road a lot of times

you know you’re running through the

wilderness on single track trail where

there’s basically nothing out there

there’s no people there’s there’s

nothing except you and that and the

trail and nature that’s probably one of

the most beautiful things I’ve heard

like just just being in that situation

of just you know being left to your own

devices and just running and and knowing

that you know there’s no one behind you

to sort of back you up and and you’re

left to your own sort of wits what do

you think has been your biggest insight

from that

our biggest fear is the unknown

and if you can just

blank out your fears somehow and just go

with the flow if you’ve well it’s very

liberating to be running out in the

middle of nowhere by yourself and not be

fearful not being a fearful state but it

being a comfortable and relaxed state so

that’s something I’ve learned the other

thing that I’ve learned is is something

that not many people today can really

relate to and that is I have a

relationship with nature I mean I have a

love affair with the wilderness most

people you know I think in modern

society don’t even know what it’s like

to be in the wilderness but I’m more

comfortable off running in the

wilderness by myself than I am in groups

of people so that that’s a reality that

I think is very human it’s very

primordial if you will but something

that’s been entirely lost in our modern

society I think a lot of people fear the

wilderness or just don’t spend time or

might even think it’s boring being out

there by themselves to me it’s it’s it’s

it’s a love affair I enjoy that it makes

me feel whole it makes me feel complete

it makes me really feel alive when I’m

just out by myself in the middle of

nowhere running on a trail

in your book road to Sparta there is

something that you mentioned called uni

hemisphere slow-wave sleep which is the

ability to put one half of the brain to

sleep while the other half stays awake

and you can actually run in the state as

that is that right

well you can but it’s not like I studied

this state and thought okay put yourself

in here while you’re running I mean I

basically was so exhausted while I was

running I mean you know are you

listeners I mean these some of these

runs are you know 36 48 hours non-stop

so you’re going through a night or two

nights without sleep and you’re running

continuously I found myself you know

running down the middle of the road in

the middle of the night I’m you know and

wondering why am i running in the middle

of the road and kind of meandering over

back to the shoulder and then you know

it happened again I woke up running down

the middle of the road I realized I was

sleep running I was literally just

falling asleep but willing my body to

keep going and so after that episode of

that kind of catatonic run thing if you

will I researched it and and that’s how

I came up with a scientific term for

what was happening now I really want to

get into the nutrition aspect of this

and you know what has changed in last

you know 20 years or so of this

technology kind of explosion information

how is that affected running the

technology is affected running in a lot

of ways I mean you alluded to nutrition

and we can we can rift on that you know

in a bit but I mean just in brief it’s

gone from this idea of you know

carbo-loading which you know many non

runners and some even recreational

runners still believe it’s involved to

carbo-load you know we eat a lot of

pasta and rice and so forth but it’s

gone full circle you know we realize now

especially the elite athletes the

carbo-loading is the worst thing to do

because it just leaves you kind of

bloated and overly stuffed at the

starting lines though we’ve gone from

cart you know the idea of taking a lot

of carbs you’re taking it almost no

carbs this ketogenic day where you’re

using fat as fuel right and that’s one

thing that changed with nutrition and


this is pretty progressive not every run

or even its familiar with the idea of

running in the state of ketosis but a

lot of elite athletes are of course the

rise of smartwatches and devices has

completely changed the landscape for me

when I first started running you know

you would you would estimate how far you

thought you ran or you try to

triangulate on a map but it cooked a lot

of trails you know it’s hard to even

tell on a trail map how far it was you

ran you know now with a GPS watch you

know you can pretty much monitor

everything you’re doing you can look at

your elevation your game you know your

descent your ACT

ascend your heart rate I mean you can

monitor everything with your vitals in a

way that was impossible when I first

started running

so going back to nutrition how do you

think that has changed and are there

secrets or tricks that you use to endure

this pace that you’re keeping well you

know when we talk about nutrition I

always preface it by saying listen to

everyone follow no one so I know it

works for me and I encourage other

athletes to experiment to find what

works best for them because a lot of the

guys I trained with and race with we

have different regimes when it comes to

nutrition but I’ve kind of gone back to

nature so I’ve gone full circle from

Haile you know processed refined foods

to more natural sources of calories

these days things like nut butters for

instance so you know ground cashew nut

butter was one of my favorite some very

simple foods coconut water for hydration

versus like a sports beverage and those

kind of things to me just sit better in

my stomach and they just leave me

feeling better than if I was eating you

know highly processed and refined foods

like I used to

have you noticed a sort of attrition

that happens with the body I mean I know

that for me personally that contact with

the pavement just it affects my joints

kind of adversely have you noticed that

at all with your body well I you know

I’ve I would say a typical in that

regard in that I’ve never had a running

related injury so I’ve never had an

overuse injury I’m a hundred percent

Greek and you know I have very good

biomechanic so my alignment is really as

a runner should be and that’s nothing

you know that I’ve trained for I mean

you you inherit your biomechanics that’s

comes from mom and dad I mean they say

the best thing you can do as a

long-distance runners to choose your

parents well and so I guess I I started

by using my parents well but the other

thing that I do a lot of is cross


I don’t just run and I think a lot of

runners that just run especially the

elite runners suffer all the time and

that’s because they’re not doing

anything besides running so I do a lot

of cross training and I’m perhaps more

bulky than than most runners I mean if

you look at me compared to say an elite

you know marathon or like a you know one

of the Kenyans for instance gentlemen

the same height as me I probably

outweigh them by thirty or forty pounds

then all of it is muscle so you know we

might have the same percentage of body

fat which is you know around four and a

half percent body fat but I just carry a

lot more Bowl and that’s from

cross-training and I really think that

helps with injury prevention and it

helps with soreness you know joint

soreness because your muscles are

supporting a lot of the impact that your

joints take when you run I’m curious to

know what motivates you to do this is it

just your passion for it or is it to do

something that you know other people

aren’t necessarily doing or is it that

Zen that you get from that moment of

just being by yourself in nature and

what is it that pushes you to keep doing

this you know I think it’s just the pure

joy of the freedom running brings

certainly I like to compete do I like to

race and there’s a thrill in racing

that’s not my main motivation my

motivation is just the the joy and

simplicity of running and the internal

reward it brings to me a lot of runners

that understand what I’m saying um some

people might be listening this morning I

don’t I don’t get this guy at all

but it

just Who I am so you know I’m Greek

again I’ll get back to you know know

thyself and be thyself

I’m really trying to kind of dig out as

much as I can of life teachings that you

can get from running we talked about it

a little bit before you know there’s

this aspect of perseverance and that no

mind state of just putting one foot in

front of the other and that’s that’s all

you have in your mind how do you

translate this to your regular life when

you’re in a stressful situation I mean

has there been an aspect of this that

carries over for you in your real life

I think absolutely I mean I think that

there’s so many topics that running

reinforces I mean you know one that’s

very clearly we haven’t discussed is

discipline I mean people say you know

how do you motivate to go running every

day well I got to be honest as much as I

love running there’s a lot of days when

running just sucks I don’t want to run

if I’m training for a race I especially

don’t want to go do a hard training

session on certain days when I don’t

feel like running and that comes down to

discipline so this kind of relationship

between you know paying your dues and

getting the reward is very clear and

running and there’s just no shortcuts I

mean you know if you’re gonna run a

marathon and I I really encourage

everyone at least once in their life to

run a marathon because it teaches you

very quickly that there’s no path of

least resistance to high achievement

that you have to pay your dues you just

can’t fake your way through a marathon

and it teaches you very clearly that if

you try to fake your way through a

marathon you’ll fail so that you know

that’s one element running is about me

you know the other thing that it’s

really taught me is to know myself

better and how do you get to learn about

yourself well you’ve put yourself in

uncomfortable situations correct and you

know a lot of times when you’re in an

uncomfortable situation like you’re in

front of an audience and you don’t like

public speaking you’re so nervous you’re

not really digesting much of the message

right but when you’re running for 26.2

miles and you’re spending you know three

and a half four and a half hours on your

feed you’ve got a lot of time to process

you know how you’re responding to this

pain and to this challenge that internal

dialogue going on in your head is very

clear and you can hear it and you can

respond to it you’re either gonna tell

yourself I can’t do it I’m gonna drop

out but you can’t pull yourself you know

if you tell yourself that that you you

failed and you’ve allowed yourself to

fail and you may be not as tough as you

think you are but more likely what

you’re gonna do is you’re gonna say this

really hurts it’s really stuck I want to

stop but I’m going to keep going

when you do that you you get the message

to yourself that hey I’m more resilient

than I believe I really was I can get

through situations that I never thought

I could get through and you know running

especially trying to run something like

a marathon teaches you these things very

concretely yeah that’s that’s a great

analogy I love that I feel like in a

very similar regard when there’s a

negative thought you know that happens

to you during your date it sort of

starts us like a small seed the more

that you focus on it the more that it

grows and then it just it completely

takes over your mind do you find that

when you’re in this state how much are

you fighting off these thoughts oh


in fact um you know when the going gets

tough any marathon or any runner even

who’s stuck to it and got to the finish

line of a difficult race they’ll tell

you and I’ll tell you the same thing

that at some point the pain owns you and

that’s all you can think about is

overcoming the pain it just takes

complete control of you and when that

happens it’s really powerful but push

through it because you teach yourself

that you can have these negative

thoughts you can process them and you

can move beyond them and that’s not

something a lot of people can do I mean

a lot of times we get stuck in this

negativity and it sticks with us the

whole day or maybe stick with us a whole

lifetime and that and again that’s why I

just advocate so much running a marathon

you just learned so much

I think it’s a really healthy idea to to

challenge yourself to push the envelope

to an extent and you know really find

out what you’re made of and really kind

of test your own limitations and your

perceived limitations you know I just

got this

Fitbit thing at work a lot I’m in my

office a lot so I got it just to hold

myself a little bit more accountable

when I find myself sitting in my chair

too much and it buzzes it gives me that

notification that you’ve been sitting

for too long I will get up and I’ll move

around and I’ll go outside and take a

walk in just getting out of this sort of

realm of of constantly being you know

immersed in information and immersed in

you know what’s going on on Twitter or

my email or when you speak about this

sort of Zen state and pushing your mind

to this pain threshold I really identify

with that I really connect with that

you know it takes discipline to do what

you just said and even though you know

your Fitbit is saying hey you haven’t

taken your you know 250 steps this hour

you need to have the the self-discipline

to get up and walk outside you know I

work out constantly throughout the day

so I have this program what they call

hit training or high-intensity interval

training and it’s like a 12 to 14 minute

routine of you know push-ups pull-ups

sit-ups burpees dip and it’s very

exhausting your heart rate is really

elevated for those 12 to 14 minutes but

I’ll tell you what if you can just get

away from a screen and force yourself to

do it and when you emerge over 14

minutes later you just feel like you’re

reborn I mean you feel refreshed you

feel rejuvenated that noise has just

dissipated so you know good for you for

having the discipline to listen to that

tracker on your wrist you have been

listening to the human experience

podcast to listen to the rest of this

episode with Dean where he gets into

some of his personal habits and how he

mixed being an entrepreneur with

ultramarathon owning and using that as a

career using that as a source to make a

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