Transcript for Dave Asprey – The Bulletproof Diet

welcome to the human experience podcast

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strangers thank you for listening what’s

up guys so this is our interview with

mr. Dave Asprey if you have not heard of

date you are in for quite the surprise

dave is one of the most remarkable human

beings I think that is that is doing the

work that he’s doing and just

fascinating individual who I have looked

up to for quite some time and it took

some time to get Dave on the show and it

was worth all the work because this

conversation gets real it gets raw we

get into some deep core fundamental

issues and you guys are you guys are

brilliant really truly going to enjoy

this conversation and I encourage you to

go pick up a copy of Dave’s book

bulletproof diet it’s more than just a

diet book it has more information than

just diet related material so I think

you’ll enjoy the book also we are

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are gonna love this episode I had so

much fun talking to Dave and we’re

definitely going to be seeing more of

him Oh on HX p so thank you guys so much

for listening the human experience is

becoming bulletproof as we speak to my

guests mr. Dave Asprey Dave it’s an

honor sir welcome to HX be there you’re

happy to be here so Dave I mean you your

story is so empowering you’ve done so

much you went from weighing 300 pounds

to completely turning that around you

were selling t-shirts on usenet you made

six million dollars by the time you were

26 why don’t you kind of breakdown that

story for us and sure i would like to

say that i made six million dollars

selling t-shirts but i didn’t i made six

million dollars at the company that

hosted google’s very first servers when

Google was just two guys out of Stanford

and well thousands and thousands of

other e-commerce companies like yahoo

and and other big brands that you know

today I was a co-founder of a consulting

group at a company that really held most

of the Internet as it grew in its first

big spurt after the browser was created

the t-shirt business though was the

first ecommerce ever I sold I didn’t

know it at the time that it was


I sold a t-shirt that said caffeine my

drug of choice with a picture of a

caffeine molecule to 12 countries out of

my dorm room who would have thought

right right along the way though I had

been fat as a teenager as a kid and

after my effect right about when I was

selling t-shirts I hit 300 pounds and my

sort of fat proof photo is a picture of

me from entrepreneur magazine when I was

about 23 weighing 300 pounds and i put

it up on the screen when i give a talk

and no one thinks it’s me because i

don’t even look like the same person

yeah i also ended up I’m in Silicon

Valley and working really hard I’m

running a program at the University of

California to teach working engineers

how the internet works so they can take

like old-school engineering and make it

work with these big scalable systems and

I’m also working in this demanding job

like designing infrastructure for these

companies and I started to have brain

fog like I couldn’t remember anything

that happened in a meeting and I was

just not just not feeling good and

things weren’t working it was it was

pretty scary to be perfectly honest and

I went online and I found something from

the 80s called smart drug news and I’m

actually good friends with the guy who

wrote it and this was about nootropics

almost before they had that name and i

ordered a thousand dollars with

nootropics from europe and i started

taking them and i got my brain back and

i used that to continue my career I got

an Ivy League MBA at Wharton using a big

handful smart drugs I ended up taking

modafinil the kind of famous limitless

drug for eight years almost every day

and I’ve been off of it for almost four

years now because with all the other

hacks that I do I I don’t need it like

it doesn’t even do much for me anymore

compared to where my brain is every day

it’s like I’m on it all the time without

needing to take it so that that’s kind

of my story I ended up spending now it’s

well north of a half a million dollars

and 15 years looking at everything

you can do to increase human performance

cognitively and to some extent

physically but I’d or itís my knees when

I was 14 I’ve been fat my whole life I

had three knee surgeries before I was 22

like I’m not interested in running a

marathon in fact the first guy ran a

marathon died and I I’m pretty darned

interested though in living to 180 years

old or more and that’s that’s my goal so

I look at things from an anti-aging

perspective I’ve run an anti-aging

nonprofit group called Silicon Valley

Health Institute for more than a decade

where we bring world-class people in to

give talks guys like Aubrey de Grey have

been there to the lay public about

here’s what you can do to have more

control of your biology so this is the

basis of my work I now I’m a New York

Times bestselling author bulletproof

radio has we’re pushing almost 40

million downloads which is well I’ve

actually killed at this point about 135

people if you look at if you look at the

number of hours that bulletproof content

has consumed it’s about a hundred and

thirty something I feel a great sense of

obligation there to to just not waste

people’s time so I a bulletproof radio

and in the content do it it’s it’s got

it’s a little bit of humor in it but

it’s not a bunch of dick jokes and I

just believe in adding as much value as

I can and I I look at everything I write

as if if someone had told me this when I

was 16 or 20 or 25 if I just known these

things what would met life had been like

like it would have been easier and I

would have done more so I just put

myself back to where I was and sort of

send a message back through time and my

first work on on the bulletproof blog

was literally if only someone had told

me this if only someone had told me this

I would have changed my life so maybe

five people will read this and it’ll

have that big of an impact and then it’s

a huge win even if I spend hundreds of

hours making content but it affected it

tens of thousands of hours of other

people’s lives i would actually

felt really good about that I was

already a VP at a big company already on

stock options like I didn’t do it to

start a company I just did stuff that I

wanted yeah yeah and I mean when you say

that you’ve explored different

biohacking techniques I mean you you

really mean that I think I think I saw

an image of you in it the other day

you’re in surrounded by this sort of red

light and you’ve got you’ve got this

this meter on measuring something I

don’t know what you were doing I’m still

wearing that right now okay what what is

that that’s that’s a 14-day heart sensor

like a hospital grade EKG and it

collects data on every single heartbeat

and then at the end of a couple weeks

you send it in they download the data

and then they look for how your

autonomic nervous system is doing and

it’s a very advanced cardiac function

tests usually used for people who are

like gonna die or are you checking

variability with your heart rate with

that well I’m tracking every single

heartbeat so you can certainly calculate

variability and that’s the measure of

autonomic nervous system function but it

also just gives you a 24-hour picture to

see okay what happens with exercise what

happens while you’re sleeping and it’s

one thing to take your resting heart

rate when you wake up it’s another thing

to have a graph of your heart rate while

you’re resting all night long every

single second there’s a lot of powerful

info in there but I I did something bad

last night so I’ve been wearing the same

for a couple days and it’s it’s a little

bit bittersweet because I helped to

create a competitor to this company in

2003 a venture-backed startup that

didn’t go so well so here it is i am

using our competitors stuff more than 10

years later i hopped into one of the

giant pieces of biohacking gear i have

here it looks like a fact it is a

cockpit like thing from a jet fighter

and you sit in it for 20 minutes and it

brings the air pressure down to the same

air pressure you’d have it Mount Everest

so 22,000 feet and then back to sea

level and then back to 22,000 feet so it

rapidly changed air pressure which

changes the water in your cells like

it’s a very powerful thing

Robbins also has one of these things

it’s something that I have at

bulletproof labs down in Santa Monica

which is opening soon and the problem is

the rapid changes like that I think I’d

crack to the sensor because it started

blinking and looking very strange on my

chest and then now it looks dead so I’m

sad okay so I mean to backtrack a little

bit here I mean if out of all these

different sort of biohacking mechanisms

that you’ve used I mean is there a

single one that is your favorite or

something that you kind of recommend to

others to use the most the single most

powerful thing you can manipulate in the

environment around you is your food

there there’s a definition for

biohacking one that I wrote in the very

early days like liquid I was working to

create biohacking as a movement it’s not

anti-aging it’s not health and wellness

it’s biohacking and the definition was

and still is it’s changing the

environment around you and inside of you

so that you have full control of your

own biology so you can do whatever you

want right so there’s someone listening

this right now I was like dude I want to

put on 50 pounds of lean muscle mass and

look like a balloon animal and like like

I’m totally cool with that I think it’s

amazing and I’ve learned so much for

bodybuilders and I use body building

techniques but my goal is to look quote

almost muscular which is an only slight

insult that the New York Times pointed

at me that I actually love because

that’s what I want to be like if you’re

too muscular it doesn’t make you live

longer and if you’re not muscular enough

it doesn’t make you live longer so I

want lots of lean mass but not

excessively in mass even though I kind

of would like I’d be really cool to look

like a bodybuilder but I don’t think I

want to do that to my biology so this

whole perspective you change the

environment around you we have more

control of the environment than we ever

have and the whole universe of things

you can change is light is terribly

important and it’s getting much worse in

the last three or four years LED

lighting is trashing people’s biology

and I’ve been talking about this for

cheese almost 10 years even with compact

fluorescent lighting before

that people don’t know it affects their

brain it affects their mitochondria it

affects their sleep I manufacture

screens that shield some of the more

harmful parts of the spectrum so they

don’t get into your eyes before you go

to sleep when you look at your iPhone so

those are all important that they’re

quite important actually the magnetic

fields you’re exposed to and the EMFs

they do affect biological function at a

core level and all of those things

though pale in comparison to how you’re

going to feel if you eat a bowl of msg

covered in sugar and in hydrogenated fat

like like you cannot out hack crappy

food it’s just not going to be done if

you fix the food as an input to your

biology and that means so I wrote a

whole book about it’s called the

bulletproof diet but that means eating a

much higher specific fat diet and if you

eat a higher canola oil diet it doesn’t

work and what you’re doing is you’re

increasing the percentage of calories

from the right fats to more than fifty

percent of what you eat and for a lot of

people at seven you’re eighty-five

percent you’re going to be a ketosis

this fat burning mode that was

popularized by Atkins you’re in that

some of the time but not all the time

and you cheat you use something called

brain octane oil which is now the

largest source of exogenous ketones and

what that means is ketones are fat

burning molecules that fuel your brain

in a different way and exogenous means

from outside your body so literally I

pour a special fat on my food that

converts to fat energy that certain

cells in the brain prefer to sugar my

brain runs on sugar and fat at the same

time which is biologically very

difficult to do most people they’re only

running on sugar or they’ve been fasting

for four days or they’re on a crazy

aggressive paleo or a concise and then

they’re only on ketones for the most

part so for me things aren’t easier

because I’m kind of powering my brain in

a different way and that’s what I would

recommend to people get rid of

inflammatory foods and start eating more

of the right kinds of fat including

grass-fed butter including coconut oil

which is a really cheap source of lauric

acid which is a pretty healthy oil

that’s falsely been sold by some

companies that

like a super mct oil it actually doesn’t

have the magic powers of real mct oils

mct oils are something I popularized as

an ingredient in bulletproof coffee

which is what I’m best known for I mean

I think one of the funnier things going

back to kind of food and being healthy I

think one of the funnier things that

you’ve said about is that women can

smell men who are fertile and healthy

that’s so true and it’s it’s kind of

funny but women and men smell each other

anyway and that’s a part of why we’re

attracted to someone there are

pheromones and things like that but if

you have bad bacteria in your gut like

our systems are so finely attuned we

want to connect with someone who is is

fertile and if you are fertile as a man

or a woman you actually do smell better

I don’t mean fertile as in i’m ready to

conceive right now you know I’m I’m

ovulating I just mean fertilized in my

biology is healthy enough to have a

healthy baby that’s why guys are

attracted to curves because a woman with

curves has more DHA fat stored in her

hips and thighs and that’s actually why

the first child is usually the most

intelligent because they get the mothers

DHA into their brain and affect my first

book was about how to have a healthier

smarter baby and it’s just that that

sort of thing we’re wired that way so

yeah if you’re eating junk food you’re

not going to smell good at a very subtle

level and you can probably still meet

people who also eat junk food but when

you’re really healthy your Bo drops and

your pheromones go up and that does

change your attractiveness potential

going back to you know just kind of

hacking your brain and your brain waves

and it the idea of neural plasticity and

how Sciences is changing the way kind of

we see the brain and I mean the old

paradigm was that the brain was one

specific way it stayed that way through

your life and then you died and now it’s

it’s more of yes your brain has the

ability to regrow these synapses in your

brain and and create new pathways and I

mean that’s that’s something that you’ve

kind of focus on right I spent a lot of

time looking at my brain because it

turns out i had brain damage

I was getting my MBA at Wharton I almost

failed I would sit down to take a test

and I would get a hundred percent of the

first question I get seventy percent a

second 30 on the third and after that I

felt like I was completely disabled like

I just couldn’t think why I thought I

knew that but I I was starting to like

question my my self-worth literally so I

went out and I got radioactive sugar

injected in my arm and then we did

something called aspects can which is

now pretty well respected dr. Daniel

Amen who’s become a personal friend is

the guy who popularized this over

immense opposition from science trolls

and now he’s been proven right I think

you could say at the time it was it was

a life-changing thing because here I am

thinking I’m failing because either I’m

not good enough I’m not smart enough or

I’m just not trying hard enough and I’m

working at a company wind up selling the

company for six hundred million dollars

in value and so I’m doing all right

there but at school then I’m just

scraping by so what what happened there

is Daniels scan the spec scan showed me

that when I tried to pay attention to

something though I had no metabolic

activity in the front of my brain

whatsoever in fact the the psychiatrist

who interpreted my results just looked

at me and you said Dave I don’t know how

you’re standing here in front of me

inside your brain is total chaos you

have the best camouflage of anyone I’ve

ever met his perspective was that I was

hitting him up for adderall like any

decent college student would and when he

saw my actual quantified like metabolic

activity in the brain he was floored and

my reason for sharing this with you

right now is that look okay I AV League

NBA like one of the top three business

schools in the country depending on what

ranking you want to look at successful

startup acquired for hundreds of

millions of dollars I was kicking ass

and I was pushing so hard and I wasn’t

getting the results for the level of

pushing that I had and I I was liberated

by these results because I Mike wait

it’s not a mole

failing it’s not an effort failing it’s

a biological thing and I can hack

biology right hacking your morals is

very different like hacking some

inherent weakness or character flaw

you’re probably screwed if that’s really

what it’s about and most people believe

that’s what it’s about it’s not about

effort it’s not about trying harder it’s

not about willpower its aftermath

biology wow that’s it’s ingenious man I

and love it I uh you know I admittedly I

work really hard as well and I i am i’m

not the best with diet I mean I I eat

what I can as a necessity type of thing

and and and that’s kind of how it stands

for me you know and and there’s a desire

to change that there’s a genuine desire

to you know match how hard I work to

putting that effort that same effort

into my food and what I’m putting into

my body where I mean where do you think

your greatest breakthrough as far as

what you were consuming and and how it

affected you where did that where did

that happen for you well a long time ago

I was in my early 20s I’m 43 right now

so this is about 20 18 20 years ago I

was probably around 280 pounds I’ve lost

a little bit of weight and I have lost

hundred pounds of fat I’ve actually

probably lost like 200 pounds of fat cuz

you lose 20 pounds you gain 30 lose 30

gain 40 and everyone who’s fat and has

been fat for well understands that

dynamic it’s horrible and there’s a

hormonal reason for it it’s not because

you know you have no willpower it’s

because of a hormone called ghrelin and

one called cck by the way you can hack

those with bulletproof coffee and things

like that but for me I decided I was not

going to have any more knee surgeries

and I would decide I was going to lose

the weight and it was the most important

thing I could do in my life so I’m still

finishing up my sixth year to get my

four-year degree and I which by the way

is a BS in computer information systems

with a concentration in decision support

which is part of the

the artificial intelligence world so

that was what I ended up graduating in

but I’m going to classes i’m working in

IT at a hospital and i’m working out for

an hour and a half every day six days a

week no matter what else is on my

calendar i put it as the most important

thing I could do I did this for a year

and a half right half cardio which is a

treadmill at 15 degrees not running but

walking really fast with a backpack on

some of the time and the rest of his

weights heavy weights so at the end of

this time I can max almost every single

machine at the 24 hour fitness I can

benchpress my thin friends will they

french fries and i’m eating salads and

crap i was still fat and i was just like

man it’s because I’m weak right because

I didn’t try hard enough it’s because I

couldn’t say no to you know that one

extra leaf of lettuce and all that

stupid programming that people have

because we believe that it’s about

exercise more and eat less well I pushed

that as hard as it could and one day I

just kind of throw my hands Mike this

just isn’t working what what’s wrong

like and I thought it was me and there’s

this moment run equate it’s not me I’m

doing what they said like I’m eating

less than 2,000 calories a day are using

around 1800 I cut my fat you know I I’m

not doing I’m not doing well so I was at

this coffee shop I was getting like a

triple espresso something or another and

there was a body builder magazine now

i’m in a farming community in central

California in 1990 something and I don’t

know back then you didn’t really read

bodybuilding magazines unless you like

to look at pictures of guys in bikinis

and stuff at least not in my high school

like like that we had a future farmers

of america chapter that was pretty

strong there and I so I’m at this coffee

shop and there’s magazine with these a

big ripped bodybuilder on the cover and

it’s like how you can get abs I’m like I

want abs like I’ve got flabs right now

and I’m in my wits in but you know I’ll

be damned if I’m not strong so I opened

up the magazine and there was an article

I wish I knew which one it was I wish

I’d saved it and it was a guy saying you

know what even fruit can make you fat

like carbs make you fat who would have

thought and I’m like are you kidding me

like that’s what I’ve been doing

so I started cutting carbs and I wasn’t

that good back then I hadn’t done my

homework so I was having like lots of

cottage cheese in the morning but I was

also having some orange juice with it

because I didn’t know any better and i

ended up losing 50 pounds like half the

way to had to lose in about three months

and in retrospect i also cut out gluten

which was a major thing for me when I

got rid of lots of the the carbs and I

get rid of gluten not not only did I

lose that 50 pounds I also had a

personality change I actually became a

nicer person and the people closest to

me my family and girlfriends and whatnot

they all said it like wow you’re nicer I

noticed that my middle finger wasn’t

quite as muscular after driving and I

just felt something shift in my brain

and now this is actually widely

recognized you look at books like wheat

belly and grain brain both written by by

friends I’m I’m kind of blown away but

yeah that did happen to me and I did

notice it and that set me off on a path

it was like well if that much of how I

feel and just the way I interact with

the world is controlled by my food I

better own that food and I should make a

study of it I i mentioned earlier my my

degree decision support systems this is

how do you use technology to look at

huge amounts of data to make better

decisions yeah that’s what I do in my

life that’s what I did to help build

Internet infrastructure like the world’s

first pay-as-you-go cloud computing

thing I just just everything that I do

it’s like I’m a walking a ventilation

yeah yeah it’s a way of thinking and

it’s a hacker way of thinking and I

really was a computer hacker likely yeah

that’s why this works and that’s why i

like the word biohacking and my job at

bulletproof is to teach people how to

think about this the the other thing

that I put in as part of my mission

Xavier is something that I learned at UC

Santa Barbara I took a class called

religion and violence

this was taught by a rabbinical scholar

and this guy was really good and we were

listening to Jim Jones and looking at

Hamas and all these these times when

religion would cause violence and I was

really kind of tormented by why could

this happen and my assumption was that

all all these religious radicals were

just irrational and I said that and it

when he ain’t as an answer to a question

to the professor in class and he laughed

and said no no no these are very

rational beings I’m like how could you

blow people up and drink kool-aid and

all this stuff it doesn’t make any sense

and he said you know it doesn’t make any

sense because of your assumptions if you

look at their assumptions about reality

what they’re doing makes perfect sense

and if you look at what you’re doing

with your son’s about reality it also

makes sense so I realized that with with

bulletproof I can help people to reset

some of their assumptions or at least to

question their assumptions because my

assumption work out more and eat less

will make you lose weight it was false

in fact the vast majority of the

assumptions about how the human body

works we practice behaviors because we

think they’re going to work because of

assumptions that we never questioned so

I learned to question those things and I

teach people to question them and then

to think differently once they’re

willing to question their assumptions

yeah and that’s what you know that’s

what I love about what you’re doing and

what you do and how you’re able to

affect people and it’s literally about

kind of the art of living and minimizing

the things that affect us adversely and

kind of taking you know the power back

and you know gaining gaining the power

to control what we put into our bodies

how how what we put into our bodies

affects us and and you know really just

just having that sense of okay well you

know it’s it’s my body and and I will

choose to live this way hey here’s what

few people teach it most people will say

here’s what you to get stronger but they

don’t tell you here’s what to do to be

less week and they’re different

in in the the bulletproof diet book I

did my best to to highlight that

difference and the first thing you do is

you make sure you have enough energy by

eating fat eating enough food that your

body can use the second thing you do

before you even think about

micronutrients all that stuff is you get

rid of things that make you weak and I

came up with a list of suspect foods

that for large percentages of the

population they cause problems so one in

five people listening to it as twenty

percent of the population they get

rheumatoid arthritis from eating

potatoes and tomatoes and eggplants

right because they have genes that cause

them to express certain types of

polysaccharides on cells in their body

that stick to chemicals that plants make

so we won’t eat them it’s a stupid thing

right but if you don’t know that that

could be a problem and you’ve lived your

entire life with musculoskeletal pain

and if you stop eating that stuff for

one week you could figure out if you

were one of those one in five like it

doesn’t matter how much you exercise how

many performance-enhancing substances

you take or anything else if every

single day you’re smacking yourself over

the head by doing something that’s

biologically incompatible with you it

seems to me that stopping the stuff that

makes you weak is a lot easier than

adding more muscle mass or adding more

IQ points for anything else so most of

my best hacks are actually about

stopping things that were limiting me

not doing things to enhance my

performance yeah yeah that makes a lot

of sense actually that that makes more

sense than the other way I mean I know

that you you work hard and you’re always

kind of on an airplane or something and

you’re you and you’re put you’re pushing

your body a lot and so how do you deal

with stress the impacts of you know

stress on your body and and just the

hard work aspect of it there are two

kinds of stress on the body there’s a

hermetic stress which is stress that

makes you stronger and then there’s a

chronic stress or non hormetic stress

which is stuff that just makes you weak

I minimize very

religiously the stuff that makes you

weak so exercises for medic stress it

tears down muscles so you’ll grow muscle

back you expose yourself to something

that you’re afraid of so that you can

wire yourself to not be afraid of it

anymore so that you can face your fears

and things like that those are positives

dresses if your body feels like you’re

going to die every time an email comes

in which is actually the case for most

people because our bodies are really bad

at sorting out whether an email that

might be a threat is any different than

a tiger that might be a threat so our

threat detection systems are woefully

inadequate for the world we live in and

they keep getting triggered by stupid

stuff so i rewired a lot of that and I

say rewired I’ve spent ten weeks of my

life doing 40 years of Zen neurofeedback

training where literally i’m spending

all week with electrodes glued to my

head in a chamber in on the chamber 24

hours a day but to the extent i can be

in it listening to my brain waves and

learning how to control them and going

through every single bad programming in

my mind and pulling it out and putting

in more appropriate biological responses

emails when i do not feel a stress

response from emails my inbox is full i

do not feel a stress response from it in

my inbox is empty i do not feel a sense

of relief from that i have let that go

so i also minimize a physical stress

that isn’t beneficial so I don’t eat

foods that cause inflammation in me I’d

rather fast in fact fasting isn’t that’s

actually a hormetic stressed if you fast

a normal amount eating foods that are

bad for you is oftentimes not a hermetic

stress it’s just something that makes

you weak so I I manage my energy very

very carefully and what I found is that

I have more energy than people 20 years

younger than me work for me like I’m up

later and I’m full of passion and

invigaron things I never had when I was

20 or 25 I was I was like a zombie half

the time I was really tired I felt

hungover even when I wasn’t drinking and

I just didn’t have the energy to bring

it so I’ve made a study of having the

energy to bring it I practiced radical

recovery where I used to do this the

exercise six days a week kind of thing


look at how much sleep did I get last

night I’ll tell you last night i was up

till four thirty in the morning because

i’m working on my next New York Times

bestseller which is about about

mitochondrial function and about what

we’re capable of doing when you really

hack your biology and well that was 430

I know it’s 1130 now so I do the math

right it’s been seven hours since then

but I’ve been up for several hours I

made coffee with my kids this morning

and all that do I sound like I’m

dragging like I’m not no I can do that

day after day it’s not good for me if I

do that for a long period of time I feel

it for a couple nights it doesn’t matter

because my ability to make electrons and

my cells is higher than it was and

because I’m not wasting any of them on

worry and on fear because I’ve trained

my heart rate variability the way I

teach clients to do it where my

fight-or-flight response is

fundamentally different than that of a

normal person and I’m an abnormal person

kind of like that is is meditation and

mindfulness a big thing for you

meditation mindfulness is almost

everything the only problem is try

having meditation mindfulness without

enough electrons in your brain it

doesn’t work so what I recommend for

people is number one get your biology in

order and then number two practice

mindfulness practice awareness I’ve been

to Tibet and learn meditation from the

Masters on purpose because of like well

I’m a Silicon Valley engineer I’ve

tapped out everything I can think of

here my-my strictly rational view of

reality doesn’t match the experiences

that I’m having and I’m not getting all

the results I want from it so I’ve done

ayahuasca with shamans I did that what

15 years ago in the jungles in Peru so

I’ve done art of living breathing

exercises that are practiced by tens of

millions of people mostly in India I’ve

met Nobel laureates doing that kind of

breathing and very powerful

entrepreneurs we used to get together

when I lived in Silicon Valley every

every saturday morning at 7am we’d sit

and do an hour hour and a half of these

funky breathing

sizes because it just was such a

performance enhancer so I do all those

things and even 40 years n which is

where I’ve had the most progress it’s

called 40 years n because the idea is

that in in a few days of training you

can teach someone’s brain to have the

same brain waves as someone who’s spent

twenty to forty years of doing dailies

and meditation so I cheat in my

meditation if I meditate there’s

computers telling my brain no do it this

way do it better do it faster so I I

might be one of those hurry meditate

faster people but I walk with

mindfulness like it’s built into what I

do and I pay attention to what I say I

pay attention not just how I act but to

whether my internal state matches my

external state that gives you profound

resilience especially when you get

trolls and and just all these these

crazy people the more successful you get

the more of them you attract that was

those gonna be something that I led

towards so I mean how do you deal with

that I mean there’s I mean being at the

level that you’re at and you must get

you know a lot of people who are trying

to debunk your work or just for no

reason whatsoever just don’t like you I

mean how how do you respond to that how

do you react to that how do you

psychologically deal with that when when

I first was getting going there’s

there’s just so much support and I just

bring a lot of positive energy of what

I’m doing like I i I’m already

successful enough that I’m safe right

hey so I’m doing something that that is

here for a mission I and it’s it’s

important work and it’s something that

I’ve worked for years and a non-profit

role to try and bring about and I just

couldn’t make it happen that way because

nonprofits just aren’t structure that

way so I’m taking something that for me

is a passion and I am taking it out

there and then all of a sudden a someone

who had been a really big supporter I my

work change his life a public figure

basically invested in another company

that was competing with me and a long

time Dave Asprey fans know exactly who

I’m talking about and honestly I don’t

really I just don’t care but he he

invested in another company had a

commercial motivate

shin and literally went overnight to

Dave Asprey is a scumbag and and since

like a whole bunch of trolls to like to

face my social media pages and all kind

of stuff like that and it threw me for a

loop for a couple months because I’m

coming at this from like a mission like

I’m helping people everyday like like

sometimes dozens of people are like

they’ve got understand I just got my dad

back like I got this one this one email

this is a couple years ago but the guys

like dave i’m emailing you personally

because i hope you can help i’m in the

UK this is before we roasted our coffee

in the UK before you could buy bowl of

fruit products there and he’s like my

dad has terminal brain cancer he’s he

may have a month or six weeks left to

live I can I only get one good hour a

day with him and it’s right after he has

bulletproof coffee he’s lucid and the

rest of the day he’s gone it’s like I

ordered bulletproof but I can’t like it

went to Argentina instead of the UK and

I don’t know why but it like I need it

so I like personally fedexed it to him

and to get around all the customs and

all that stuff but so I come from that

sort of thing I’m like okay my work just

helped a guy get quality time with his

dying dad like that’s the level that I

operate at and I went from that to like

people you know calling me like an

asshole scumbag snake oil salesman and

all that so what I did is I went to the

40 years of Zen facilities plugged

myself into a neurofeedback machine and

I did a very structured practice of

forgiveness and I actually forgave the

person for doing this I understand you

know when people come with the world

from a threatened perspective where

everything is a takedown that’s that’s

how they see things and so this guys are

coming to you know have a competing

thing with a friend and so I’m going to

attempt to smear Dave’s reputation okay

a guy who makes loaded dick jokes just

called me a scumbag liar we tried to

drag my name

through the mud the amount of stress

that I felt over that was all wasted

stress and I don’t feel any stress over

it anymore like you don’t have to like

me I’m gonna do the work that I’m gonna

do here I honestly I don’t care about

that stuff anymore at a very deep level

because I already let things go so I

actually feel a sense of compassion for

the people who want to you know come in

and try and deface what they do in fact

yesterday someone just posted on my on

my Facebook page they called me a quack

and I responded to it I’m like I’m like

let me be really clear I’m an unlicensed

biohacker I mean you have lots of

doctors as friends I married to one

whatever but I’m not a doctor I’m like

so from your perspective of it you just

upgraded me like you just told me you

think I’m a physician even though I know

like so here’s the deal like like if

you’re gonna troll me I would expect you

to at least like like do it right so the

right term would be like snake oil

salesman right and then I linked to my

last April Fool’s Day post which was

actually about grass-fed snake oil where

we spin the snakes at high speed and

then let them go on to a snake sanctuary

dude this stuff it’s laughable and the

other thing you get successful a guy

named Peter sage who is one of the most

popular gaston bulletproof radio really

help help me to see this is what happens

you know the better the better you do

the more successful you are the more

people’s egos get involved the more

jealous they get of your success yeah I

that every day and there’s there’s

people out there who I have supported

dramatically in getting the message out

there they get jealous like why am I not

getting whatever this is and then all

the sudden it’s like Dave Asprey is a

thing and people make up the weirdest

stuff and there’s people who say I have

cancer there’s people say I have type 2

diabetes there’s people who say there’s

stuff in my products that isn’t there I

mean like just crazy stuff out there so

the number one thing I say is I’m like

look where that’s coming from and then I

keep a little equation my back pocket

Savior and it’s one I would encourage

everyone who is in this role where

you’re succeeding and there are people

trying to it to drag you down is that it

takes a minute or two for a troll to

write something on your page or whatever

else it takes you about a half a sec

to click ban delete okay I went every

knit Sony man it’s like you know it’s

it’s great and i love the just the

rawness and i can and i can feel you

know that you actually you do care and

and I mean I’m kind of the same way and

I you know this morning I was up that’s

just checking the page for the show and

there’s just guy just losing it losing

his mind I’d even understand I wasn’t

really even saying anything i post an

article and and he just and and that’s

exactly what I did you know i just i

just banned him from the page and but at

the same time you know I and it maybe

it’ll take me a couple more years or

just you know maybe it’ll just click one

day and but you know it it doesn’t

affect me a little bit and it affects

most people it it’s supposed to because

you’re human and you’re part of a tribe

right and this is our wiring we are

we’re meant to fit in and at a very core

level we’re kind of pack animals so if

you’re not a part of the pack you could

die and the automated defense systems

that you have will get triggered by this

because you’re human what you can do

with deep meditation practice and

scripting practices and all all sorts of

different ways for me it’s it’s almost

all about heart rate variability and

like that that deep forgiveness with the

electrode stucked on my head so I have a

lie detector telling you whether I’ve

really forgiven or not but when you do

that you actually can change your

biological response to that where I

would say ninety percent of the time it

just doesn’t get to me at all the area

where I still have a little bit of a hot

button is when I’ve really provided like

like a huge amount of service where I’ve

helped someone and then they do like the

betrayal thing I’ve had times or I’ll

take someone I’ll put them on the show

or I’ll do something really nice to

support them and then two weeks later

they’re like hey have you heard my new

coffee its mold three it’s not actually

tested mold free but I just said it and

they’re like it’s like dude what the

hell right like this isn’t how we help

each other like do something new and


talk about it but if you’re going to

knock off my stuff without even knocking

off right there’s another company that

used to used to be a supporter they’re

selling some mix of water and mct oil

which they know very well it doesn’t

work it’s about 12.5 percent the

strength of what I do and it’s more

expensive on a per unit basis but it’s

watered down and they’re running around

you know talking about things like that

that that one instance I got over it but

still it does kind of it does throw me

for a loop when someone you’re like okay

like I’ve invited you to come on my show

or I put you at the bulletproof

conference you know thousands of people

and like shined a spotlight on your work

because I think it’s worthy and then

you’re going to turn around and like

tell me I’m an asshole like that I still

that still pushes my buttons for about

usually about an hour or two and then

there’s there’s some specific things I

can do heart rate variability there’s a

that forgiveness thing I can I have

electrodes and EEG machines here or i

can I can go to my facility in Seattle

where I train my executives and I do the

40 years of Zen program that stuff I can

really dig deep on and if that doesn’t

work I have in-house legal counsel and

I’m not afraid to use it I don’t have to

pay per hour for attorneys all right so

you want throw down let’s throw down

it’s gonna cost you more that’s going to

cost me wow that’s that’s funny and kind

of you know real at the same time just

because you know I its loyalty is so

important I mean you have to you have to

be loyal man especially to you know

someone who is offering something to you

that you would otherwise they’re just

take you a long time to see and and I

agree a hundred percent I mean um that

that betrayal hurts a lot okay there’s

there’s integrity and then there’s

loyalty and loyalty is sometimes blind

right so so if you’re loyal to someone

who is you know starts killing babies

you are not acting in integrity so I’m

fine if someone I used to work with

sides all right I’m going to sever ties

and I’m going to go compete at i would

say oftentimes that’s without integrity

like if you know i’m backing their

company or something and they decide to

do it weird stuff like that can happen

but the the bigger thing about integrity

there is that if you feel like to go

compete the first thing you have to do

is you have to actually take down the

person who helped you before that’s like

a really deep level of integrity that’s

lacking and that’s an area where i think

a lot of people carry a lot of shame in

fear and and like all their bad like

early childhood experiences are all

mushed up in their head i know because i

had all that too i just unraveled it all

so I I kind of feel the most compassion

for the people back that way cuz like

they’re kind of living in hell and they

don’t they don’t really know it it’s

still irritating though because it’s

like guys like come on don’t far in the

elevator like this isn’t how we help

each other like I have dozens of new

york times bestselling authors who I

consider like good friends who’ve helped

me bring the message out and like I do

anything for them and they would do

anything for me and we would never do

that to each other and then every now

and then someone shows up and is just

like you know kind of tries to try to

insert themselves in the community and

then just shows up without integrity and

they get booted by the immune system of

cool PF yeah yeah I’ve noticed that too

and that’s that’s the amazing thing

about I think this community and I mean

there are good aspects and there’s

there’s always going to be those people

who kind of are jealous they’re envious

they want what you have and and they’re

just going to come at you that way so I

mean I’m glad we we covered that right

on a curious note though Dave I mean if

I can ask how many how many bridges like

through you know you’ve been doing this

for a while how many bridges do you

think have been burned through you know

launching your companies and kind of

being at the point you’re at you know no

real bridges have been burned right

there were some times where I’d like oh

I thought that person was was cool or I

thought our stuff was aligned

there was nothing there right this comes

down to to me that the rise is straight

up from meditation and awareness and

it’s called discernment right it’s my

job as the CEO bulletproof and as the

vanguard of a movement now around

biohacking it’s actually a huge

responsibility to that and it means I

have an even higher bar for when I

decide who’s going to be a guest on my

show like a million people might hear

what that person has to say like I don’t

want to put someone up there who’s is

going to steer people to do things that

are harmful or to spread misinformation

I put people I’ve had a guy who’s a

radical low fat like no added fat to

your food any kind of thing and like we

just agree to disagree on that and we

talk about some other stuff and it’s all

cool like I’m happy to challenge my

ideas but i don’t want to harm people

right and i don’t want to put people who

are are those takedown people who

believe that the way to the way to win

instead of to create something amazing

and to share it is to take down someone

else to make themselves look better it’s

like dude you were bullied in high

school I get it but now you’re like you

know a 50 year old adult so you can let

that go now and like let’s do something

real right my job is to filter those out

when I’m hiring people when I’m

partnering with people when I’m inviting

people to to spend some time in the the

media sphere that that I’ve created on

the media side of bulletproof it’s a

pretty big thing and I’m spending more

and more of my time on on discernment

and just just kind of feeling into it

and and using those softer skills which

did not come naturally to me but that’s

what you’ve got to do in a position like

this in order to have the maximum

positive benefit I mean an end David

thank you for answering that question

and you know a large part of what you

talked about as well as it’s just

gratitude and and for me that’s a big

thing as well and just being in the

space being here right now being able to

talk to you and I have a lot of

gratitude for that I mean how how

important is gratitude for you

it’s the most important thing you can do

to reset your nervous system to get out

of the fight or flight mode and when I

say this until I was 30 I was in the

fight-or-flight mode of the time I was

born with my umbilical cord wrapped

around my neck I came into the world

thinking that it was a hostile place was

something that was trying to kill me and

I never dropped that until I did some

really deep work right so I understand

that that mindset said very very well

and I don’t I I just don’t think that

it’s it’s necessary for people to be

there but I have been in that state for

so much my life that now I I spent a lot

of time not being there yeah Dave when

when we you know when we talk about all

these these biohacking tools and kind of

retooling the way that we we perceive

threats and and other people how

important is it to really be consistent

with you know our practice and and what

we’re doing to to kind of maintain those

changes let’s go back to that gratitude

hack for getting out of getting out of

that fight-or-flight mode it doesn’t

make sense that gratitude would be the

antidote for like being fearful all the

time but its programming in your biology

that says hey the world is either a

fearful place full of threats and you

should optimize your biology to survive

or the world is full of hopefully don’t

mind us but it’s full of awesome

things and you should program yourself

to thrive well gratitude is what does

that so in terms of consistency every

night before bed I sit down with my two

young kids and we do a little gratitude

ritual and I say tell me three things

you’re grateful for that happened today

and it could be anything right I’m

grateful that you know we had a pork

belly for dinner

fine right not so long ago a learn he

was five he’s like daddy I’m grateful

for the Big Bang because without it

there wouldn’t be anything okay that’s

gratitude for you right it turns out

it’s really good for them because it

resets their nervous system they sleep

the night like so reliably like it’s

amazing actually and I do the same thing

with them I tell them through things I’m

grateful for and sometimes it’s it’s I’m

grateful for things they don’t quite

understand but that’s the one thing it

doesn’t cost you anything to write down

the three things you’re grateful for you

do that it’s really cool there’s a

five-minute journal is like a gratitude

focused journal that that’s out there I

really feel that that is is one of the

best things you can do if you are an

experienced meditator or you’ve done

this neurofeedback stuff that I’m

talking about there’s actually a

physical sensation of gratitude it’s

like in your chest you can feel it and

you can amplify that and when you you

focus on the physical sensations of

emotions they all have a seat somewhere

in the body and they’re the seat is in a

different place with different people

depending on where they came from but

you can use that to amplify the

gratitude and pretty soon you’re like

wow it this is a wonderful place and it

doesn’t matter if some terrorists did

something so it’s something evil today

it doesn’t matter if your revenues are

up or your revenues are down or you know

you got in a fight with your significant

other like the world’s still an amazing

place and if you just focus on that for

a little while it changes your nervous

system it changes your biology and

that’s one of the hacks you can do Wow

yeah it’s beautiful man i love it i

really really really truly value you

know that what you’re saying and I I you

know I do my best to exercise the same

and you know those those emotional

muscles where you know I’m putting down

what I’m grateful for and reminding

myself that you know I’ve been given

this huge opportunity to reach people

and affect people and you know I get


all the time and thanking me for this

and I I’m very very grateful for you

know all of it if we can just if we can

actually stick with what the emotional

part of it and address anger a little

bit how how do you deal with it I mean

is it something that is still part of

who you are or have you kind of hacked

your way out of that as well you know

anger always always exists it’s a part

of it’s a part of your ego and your ego

is a part of the operating system for

keeping your meat alive I call the

Labrador brain in in the bulletproof

diet and whether it pissed me off to

call that book bulletproof diet but

that’s what makes people buy books like

like like seriously this is about

willpower this is about like everything

you can do to kick more ass like like

how dare you call it a diet honestly I

don’t even care if I have abs I care

about how I feel right so that’s sort of

that sort of was a little anger right

there but it passes and there’s there’s

actually an emotional hierarchy that’s

really important to understand and and

it turns out the very worst place to be

as apathy like if you’re the place where

you just don’t give a that is the

darkest place you can be because you

can’t even be bothered to care and that

apathy always hides sadness right so

you’re sad about something so when you

get past apathy now you carry like how I

got a face sighs now I have to like deal

with the fact that I’m actually sad that

that somebody’s going on and after that

then you can feel anger so the good news

is that if you are feeling angry about

something you just bypass two of the

steps that you might have had to go

through you can be grateful for that by

the way did you did you ever uh get a

chance to read power vs force yeah yeah

he taught he talks about that in that

book where it kind of you go apathy

being the base state and then you move


oh and and then anger is that pivotal

state where you can kind of change the

way you feel about a certain situation

you get bitten and a lot of people

especially younger people and certainly

went when i was 25 aight i believe this

very fervently like anger is a great

source of energy right and it’s actually

not a good source of motivation energy

if you’re acting out of anger you will

always make sub optimal decisions and

it’ll cost you emotionally and

psychologically and biologically but yet

anger is a pivotal point and what’s

hiding behind anger every single time is

actually fear and that’s where for me

neurofeedback and Harvey variability in

just meditation in general have become

really important because if you can see

what it is that you’re actually afraid

of it’s never a rational because fear is

not rational fear is actually an emotion

which means it isn’t the thought and

what we do and this was transformative

for me to understand and I write about

this on some of my blog posts and all is

it’s that look your nervous system

reacts and then you make up a logical

story about why you did it and we can

prove this with electrodes like we can

see it happening you do it and then you

tell yourself a story about it and the

same as fear of anger you felt the anger

and then you tell yourself a story i’m

angry because you know my my whatever i

mean it hurt my favorites I’m angry

because someone cut me off in traffic

well actually that’s not why you’re

angry right you’re angry for some other

reason and if you actually sit down and

journal about and feel into it all that

stuff it comes down to the fact that

always behind your anger there’s fear

and God knows what your fear is and

where that came from but it’s usually

the first seven years of life you get

really bad programming doesn’t matter

how good your parents are you just get

bad programming because that’s how the

world works so behind anger sphere and

behind fear is actually joy and freedom

and all those good things so if

someone’s angry about something or if

I’m angry about something I’m like well

okay what am I actually afraid of here

because that’s what it means and also I

don’t describe the anger to me like I’m

angry like my nervous system gets angry

like I’m the good stuff so my view of

the brain is a little bit radical there


we are the part of you that you

identifies you right now the rational

parts that have some good feelings doll

that stuff that’s basically a virtual

machine running inside a piece of

hardware it like there’s a different

consciousness that runs your meat and

it’s not a nice person and it wants to

kill things that wants to eat everything

and it’s got all that’s what that is

yeah he’s got all the greed it’s got all

the all the violence all the hate all

that kind of stuff alright so when

someone comes to the one of my pages are

wants to insult me or whatever else okay

I know what part of them is in charge

and what it is it’s their meat operating

systems it’s their Labrador brain and

they’re acting out of well apathy

sadness anger or fear all right then

operating out of joy and like that’s

right hang out operating out of sense of

mission I know I’m helping a lot of

people I have a wonderful family and

like I’m grateful right so it’s just a

different place in the emotional

hierarchy and I I’m grateful that I’ve

learned how to spend so much of my life

in that state instead of those other

horrible places so I feel anger but no

you you take the anger and you’re like

okay that’s coming from my ego and

there’s a reason for it and I’m going to

let it go do you ever feel like you are

kind of five or ten years ahead of

everything you’re doing and maybe

humanity is a bit primitive and slow and

kind of catching up that would be a form

of ill will or a version that be a

really egotistical thought I don’t okay

I can tell you that my entire life I am

I’ve lived in the future the first

ecommerce ever on the planet was a

tshirt out of a dorm room I remember I

was interviewed by like almost a hundred

different magazines around like this 20

something-year-old like early 20s before

like a lot of the cool changes that make

that much easier now and someone asked

me like like what how is this going to

change things I said look we won’t need

mail-order catalogs in just five years

and I

described amazon to this reporter like

the Amazon didn’t exist but I described

it right I could see it and then I go to

go to Silicon Valley and like the very

first colocation company which is like

that enabled the changes in the internet

that we know today that allow us to have

a conversation we’re having now in fact

probably some fiber that my company

dealt with our buildings we built our

between us right now which is awesome so

that’s just part of it like like I think

about how things are going to be maybe I

read too much science fiction as a kid

but I don’t think I’m an advanced

creature I think that this is how it’s

supposed to be for everyone and there’s

just a lot of crap in the way and it’s

my job to just illuminate the crap and

how people get rid of it and the the

cheapest fastest laziest way possible

life is supposed to be easy you’re not

supposed to be struggling and striving

all the time and when you can stop

struggling and striving you can start

gliding or coasting and it’s actually a

lot more fun it’s just getting there for

me took an enormous amount of heavy

lifting and frankly like hundreds and

hundreds and hundreds of thousands of

dollars but I learned a few things along

the way and that’s why I have a neuro

feedback training institute that’s why I

have a Content things why I write these

books because if I can spend 5000 hours

to write a book that takes you four

hours to read like that some of the most

leverage time you’ll ever get mom yeah

and that’s what I do yeah wow man I’d

really really appreciate your time Dave

in it and we’re we’re about out of it

you know I really truly respect your

work man and and I’m glad that you made

the time to be here today and just uh

just thank you well thanks Savior I

appreciate the work you’re doing getting

getting the word out to just talking

about the human experience it’s

important stuff and it’s something that

that I think is shifting you people are

willing to talk about emotions and

feelings and spiritual things you should

go back 20 25 years if you talked about

those things you were ostracized from

and all that and now you go to a

boardroom and like who’s meditating yeah

and if you’re not meditating people sort

of make fun of you okay maybe it’s not

quite that bad but it is it’s very

widely accepted so things have changed

the paradigm has changed and somehow

it’s filtered in to this and and yeah

and ten years ago I mean maybe even

earlier than 20 and it was it was it

wasn’t really heard of to go and you

know meditate and people weren’t you

know and so now it’s picking up and it’s

a good thing it’s good i mean i’m glad

that the global human consciousness is

kind of waking up to what the planet is

and you know one of your one of your

other missions is an ecological one

where we’re actually helping the planet

and you know giving it but getting it

its life back and being conscious of

what we take from it and and that’s what

it’s another thing that i just really

respect value men well say thanks so

much i guess we didn’t have time to talk

about that one but yeah you change you

change demand for good stuff the

suppliers have to change and that is

happening and shortages of grass-fed

butter are leading to much more

grassland being put in production to

have healthier soil like this is a

hackable system the whole planet and

everything every decision you make it

goes one direction or the other and you

don’t have to be anywhere near perfect

just when you have an opportunity to

know which of two decisions is the one

that’s better for you or better for the

planet or hopefully both just pick that

one especially don’t care right like

like oh I was okay either way let me

pick the one that had more benefit

justjust yeah where matters yeah man Wow

beautifully stated so Dave where can I

people pick up a copy of your book where

can people find your work well head on

over to bulletproof calm and try some of

that brain octane oil i talked about try

the bulletproof coffee beans that don’t

have a neurotoxin and then that’s common

in coffee and you can buy the book there

you can buy the book on amazon all over

the place i’m not kidding about the

effect of the supplements and of the

foods and of these other things if you

want to meditate better you

need stable energy in your brain it’s

it’s just required being being in a

weakened state while you’re pushing

really hard on personal growth doesn’t

make any sense and it never did so fuel

yourself perfectly and then meditate and

see how your experience changes that

that’s really meaningful bulletproof

calm and bulletproof radio is on itunes

and bulletproof exact calm there’s north

of a half a million words of content

they’re all free for you yeah and I

meant to ask you this and what what’s in

your stack right now what do you what

are you supplement right now well I’m

about to go get some stem cells taken

out of my adipose tissue and then

injected my cerebral spinal fluid so I

actually grow more brain cells that’s

happening next week fact for people

interested i will have the physician who

does that kind of work on stage of the

bulletproof conference is sep tember

23rd through 25th bulletproof conference

com boom got a plug-in but that is that

means I’ve changed my stack I’ve gone

off all the things that typically make

your blood thinner so I’m taking less

turmeric krill oil and several the

vitamins and a lot of the the plant

based compounds that I use that increase

cerebral blood flow I’m off of those I’m

taking aniracetam i have had unfair

advantage this morning i’ve had upgraded

aging this morning i’ve had bulletproof

coffee with lots of brain octane and be

bulletproof upgraded collagen in it

let’s see i’m drinking some interesting

structured water I’ve been spending a

lot of time looking at this thing that

we ignore in our body which is that

we’re like ninety percent water and sort

of like let’s take away water weight

well Gerald Pollack who was on a

bulletproof radio just blew my mind

talking about how actually water does

different things he’s a very prestigious

scientist who’s also speaking at the

conference so I’m really spending more

time looking at the water and my cells

and I could do there and that’s all i’ve

had today is bulletproof coffee with a

little bit of upgraded collagen i put

some of my vanilla in there vanilla has

some plant based compound similar to


they’re called vanilloid activators so

use some of that for its inflammatory

properties and let’s let’s see Wow a few

amazing some stem cells for lunch and

and call a day exactly alright guys you

guys heard here my guess is Dave Asprey

and you can get to his site bulletproof

calm this is the human experience and we

will see you guys next week

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