welcome to the human experience podcast
the only podcast designed to fuse your
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as we approach our scent please make
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you on a chip we are the intimate
strangers thank you for listening what’s
up guys so this is our interview with
mr. Dave Asprey if you have not heard of
date you are in for quite the surprise
dave is one of the most remarkable human
beings I think that is that is doing the
work that he’s doing and just
fascinating individual who I have looked
up to for quite some time and it took
some time to get Dave on the show and it
was worth all the work because this
conversation gets real it gets raw we
get into some deep core fundamental
issues and you guys are you guys are
brilliant really truly going to enjoy
this conversation and I encourage you to
go pick up a copy of Dave’s book
bulletproof diet it’s more than just a
diet book it has more information than
just diet related material so I think
you’ll enjoy the book also we are
listener supported so the reason that we
I mean it would be easy for us to go out
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are gonna love this episode I had so
much fun talking to Dave and we’re
definitely going to be seeing more of
him Oh on HX p so thank you guys so much
for listening the human experience is
becoming bulletproof as we speak to my
guests mr. Dave Asprey Dave it’s an
honor sir welcome to HX be there you’re
happy to be here so Dave I mean you your
story is so empowering you’ve done so
much you went from weighing 300 pounds
to completely turning that around you
were selling t-shirts on usenet you made
six million dollars by the time you were
26 why don’t you kind of breakdown that
story for us and sure i would like to
say that i made six million dollars
selling t-shirts but i didn’t i made six
million dollars at the company that
hosted google’s very first servers when
Google was just two guys out of Stanford
and well thousands and thousands of
other e-commerce companies like yahoo
and and other big brands that you know
today I was a co-founder of a consulting
group at a company that really held most
of the Internet as it grew in its first
big spurt after the browser was created
the t-shirt business though was the
first ecommerce ever I sold I didn’t
know it at the time that it was
impactful
I sold a t-shirt that said caffeine my
drug of choice with a picture of a
caffeine molecule to 12 countries out of
my dorm room who would have thought
right right along the way though I had
been fat as a teenager as a kid and
after my effect right about when I was
selling t-shirts I hit 300 pounds and my
sort of fat proof photo is a picture of
me from entrepreneur magazine when I was
about 23 weighing 300 pounds and i put
it up on the screen when i give a talk
and no one thinks it’s me because i
don’t even look like the same person
yeah i also ended up I’m in Silicon
Valley and working really hard I’m
running a program at the University of
California to teach working engineers
how the internet works so they can take
like old-school engineering and make it
work with these big scalable systems and
I’m also working in this demanding job
like designing infrastructure for these
companies and I started to have brain
fog like I couldn’t remember anything
that happened in a meeting and I was
just not just not feeling good and
things weren’t working it was it was
pretty scary to be perfectly honest and
I went online and I found something from
the 80s called smart drug news and I’m
actually good friends with the guy who
wrote it and this was about nootropics
almost before they had that name and i
ordered a thousand dollars with
nootropics from europe and i started
taking them and i got my brain back and
i used that to continue my career I got
an Ivy League MBA at Wharton using a big
handful smart drugs I ended up taking
modafinil the kind of famous limitless
drug for eight years almost every day
and I’ve been off of it for almost four
years now because with all the other
hacks that I do I I don’t need it like
it doesn’t even do much for me anymore
compared to where my brain is every day
it’s like I’m on it all the time without
needing to take it so that that’s kind
of my story I ended up spending now it’s
well north of a half a million dollars
and 15 years looking at everything
you can do to increase human performance
cognitively and to some extent
physically but I’d or itís my knees when
I was 14 I’ve been fat my whole life I
had three knee surgeries before I was 22
like I’m not interested in running a
marathon in fact the first guy ran a
marathon died and I I’m pretty darned
interested though in living to 180 years
old or more and that’s that’s my goal so
I look at things from an anti-aging
perspective I’ve run an anti-aging
nonprofit group called Silicon Valley
Health Institute for more than a decade
where we bring world-class people in to
give talks guys like Aubrey de Grey have
been there to the lay public about
here’s what you can do to have more
control of your biology so this is the
basis of my work I now I’m a New York
Times bestselling author bulletproof
radio has we’re pushing almost 40
million downloads which is well I’ve
actually killed at this point about 135
people if you look at if you look at the
number of hours that bulletproof content
has consumed it’s about a hundred and
thirty something I feel a great sense of
obligation there to to just not waste
people’s time so I a bulletproof radio
and in the content do it it’s it’s got
it’s a little bit of humor in it but
it’s not a bunch of dick jokes and I
just believe in adding as much value as
I can and I I look at everything I write
as if if someone had told me this when I
was 16 or 20 or 25 if I just known these
things what would met life had been like
like it would have been easier and I
would have done more so I just put
myself back to where I was and sort of
send a message back through time and my
first work on on the bulletproof blog
was literally if only someone had told
me this if only someone had told me this
I would have changed my life so maybe
five people will read this and it’ll
have that big of an impact and then it’s
a huge win even if I spend hundreds of
hours making content but it affected it
tens of thousands of hours of other
people’s lives i would actually
felt really good about that I was
already a VP at a big company already on
stock options like I didn’t do it to
start a company I just did stuff that I
wanted yeah yeah and I mean when you say
that you’ve explored different
biohacking techniques I mean you you
really mean that I think I think I saw
an image of you in it the other day
you’re in surrounded by this sort of red
light and you’ve got you’ve got this
this meter on measuring something I
don’t know what you were doing I’m still
wearing that right now okay what what is
that that’s that’s a 14-day heart sensor
like a hospital grade EKG and it
collects data on every single heartbeat
and then at the end of a couple weeks
you send it in they download the data
and then they look for how your
autonomic nervous system is doing and
it’s a very advanced cardiac function
tests usually used for people who are
like gonna die or are you checking
variability with your heart rate with
that well I’m tracking every single
heartbeat so you can certainly calculate
variability and that’s the measure of
autonomic nervous system function but it
also just gives you a 24-hour picture to
see okay what happens with exercise what
happens while you’re sleeping and it’s
one thing to take your resting heart
rate when you wake up it’s another thing
to have a graph of your heart rate while
you’re resting all night long every
single second there’s a lot of powerful
info in there but I I did something bad
last night so I’ve been wearing the same
for a couple days and it’s it’s a little
bit bittersweet because I helped to
create a competitor to this company in
2003 a venture-backed startup that
didn’t go so well so here it is i am
using our competitors stuff more than 10
years later i hopped into one of the
giant pieces of biohacking gear i have
here it looks like a fact it is a
cockpit like thing from a jet fighter
and you sit in it for 20 minutes and it
brings the air pressure down to the same
air pressure you’d have it Mount Everest
so 22,000 feet and then back to sea
level and then back to 22,000 feet so it
rapidly changed air pressure which
changes the water in your cells like
it’s a very powerful thing
Robbins also has one of these things
it’s something that I have at
bulletproof labs down in Santa Monica
which is opening soon and the problem is
the rapid changes like that I think I’d
crack to the sensor because it started
blinking and looking very strange on my
chest and then now it looks dead so I’m
sad okay so I mean to backtrack a little
bit here I mean if out of all these
different sort of biohacking mechanisms
that you’ve used I mean is there a
single one that is your favorite or
something that you kind of recommend to
others to use the most the single most
powerful thing you can manipulate in the
environment around you is your food
there there’s a definition for
biohacking one that I wrote in the very
early days like liquid I was working to
create biohacking as a movement it’s not
anti-aging it’s not health and wellness
it’s biohacking and the definition was
and still is it’s changing the
environment around you and inside of you
so that you have full control of your
own biology so you can do whatever you
want right so there’s someone listening
this right now I was like dude I want to
put on 50 pounds of lean muscle mass and
look like a balloon animal and like like
I’m totally cool with that I think it’s
amazing and I’ve learned so much for
bodybuilders and I use body building
techniques but my goal is to look quote
almost muscular which is an only slight
insult that the New York Times pointed
at me that I actually love because
that’s what I want to be like if you’re
too muscular it doesn’t make you live
longer and if you’re not muscular enough
it doesn’t make you live longer so I
want lots of lean mass but not
excessively in mass even though I kind
of would like I’d be really cool to look
like a bodybuilder but I don’t think I
want to do that to my biology so this
whole perspective you change the
environment around you we have more
control of the environment than we ever
have and the whole universe of things
you can change is light is terribly
important and it’s getting much worse in
the last three or four years LED
lighting is trashing people’s biology
and I’ve been talking about this for
cheese almost 10 years even with compact
fluorescent lighting before
that people don’t know it affects their
brain it affects their mitochondria it
affects their sleep I manufacture
screens that shield some of the more
harmful parts of the spectrum so they
don’t get into your eyes before you go
to sleep when you look at your iPhone so
those are all important that they’re
quite important actually the magnetic
fields you’re exposed to and the EMFs
they do affect biological function at a
core level and all of those things
though pale in comparison to how you’re
going to feel if you eat a bowl of msg
covered in sugar and in hydrogenated fat
like like you cannot out hack crappy
food it’s just not going to be done if
you fix the food as an input to your
biology and that means so I wrote a
whole book about it’s called the
bulletproof diet but that means eating a
much higher specific fat diet and if you
eat a higher canola oil diet it doesn’t
work and what you’re doing is you’re
increasing the percentage of calories
from the right fats to more than fifty
percent of what you eat and for a lot of
people at seven you’re eighty-five
percent you’re going to be a ketosis
this fat burning mode that was
popularized by Atkins you’re in that
some of the time but not all the time
and you cheat you use something called
brain octane oil which is now the
largest source of exogenous ketones and
what that means is ketones are fat
burning molecules that fuel your brain
in a different way and exogenous means
from outside your body so literally I
pour a special fat on my food that
converts to fat energy that certain
cells in the brain prefer to sugar my
brain runs on sugar and fat at the same
time which is biologically very
difficult to do most people they’re only
running on sugar or they’ve been fasting
for four days or they’re on a crazy
aggressive paleo or a concise and then
they’re only on ketones for the most
part so for me things aren’t easier
because I’m kind of powering my brain in
a different way and that’s what I would
recommend to people get rid of
inflammatory foods and start eating more
of the right kinds of fat including
grass-fed butter including coconut oil
which is a really cheap source of lauric
acid which is a pretty healthy oil
that’s falsely been sold by some
companies that
like a super mct oil it actually doesn’t
have the magic powers of real mct oils
mct oils are something I popularized as
an ingredient in bulletproof coffee
which is what I’m best known for I mean
I think one of the funnier things going
back to kind of food and being healthy I
think one of the funnier things that
you’ve said about is that women can
smell men who are fertile and healthy
that’s so true and it’s it’s kind of
funny but women and men smell each other
anyway and that’s a part of why we’re
attracted to someone there are
pheromones and things like that but if
you have bad bacteria in your gut like
our systems are so finely attuned we
want to connect with someone who is is
fertile and if you are fertile as a man
or a woman you actually do smell better
I don’t mean fertile as in i’m ready to
conceive right now you know I’m I’m
ovulating I just mean fertilized in my
biology is healthy enough to have a
healthy baby that’s why guys are
attracted to curves because a woman with
curves has more DHA fat stored in her
hips and thighs and that’s actually why
the first child is usually the most
intelligent because they get the mothers
DHA into their brain and affect my first
book was about how to have a healthier
smarter baby and it’s just that that
sort of thing we’re wired that way so
yeah if you’re eating junk food you’re
not going to smell good at a very subtle
level and you can probably still meet
people who also eat junk food but when
you’re really healthy your Bo drops and
your pheromones go up and that does
change your attractiveness potential
going back to you know just kind of
hacking your brain and your brain waves
and it the idea of neural plasticity and
how Sciences is changing the way kind of
we see the brain and I mean the old
paradigm was that the brain was one
specific way it stayed that way through
your life and then you died and now it’s
it’s more of yes your brain has the
ability to regrow these synapses in your
brain and and create new pathways and I
mean that’s that’s something that you’ve
kind of focus on right I spent a lot of
time looking at my brain because it
turns out i had brain damage
I was getting my MBA at Wharton I almost
failed I would sit down to take a test
and I would get a hundred percent of the
first question I get seventy percent a
second 30 on the third and after that I
felt like I was completely disabled like
I just couldn’t think why I thought I
knew that but I I was starting to like
question my my self-worth literally so I
went out and I got radioactive sugar
injected in my arm and then we did
something called aspects can which is
now pretty well respected dr. Daniel
Amen who’s become a personal friend is
the guy who popularized this over
immense opposition from science trolls
and now he’s been proven right I think
you could say at the time it was it was
a life-changing thing because here I am
thinking I’m failing because either I’m
not good enough I’m not smart enough or
I’m just not trying hard enough and I’m
working at a company wind up selling the
company for six hundred million dollars
in value and so I’m doing all right
there but at school then I’m just
scraping by so what what happened there
is Daniels scan the spec scan showed me
that when I tried to pay attention to
something though I had no metabolic
activity in the front of my brain
whatsoever in fact the the psychiatrist
who interpreted my results just looked
at me and you said Dave I don’t know how
you’re standing here in front of me
inside your brain is total chaos you
have the best camouflage of anyone I’ve
ever met his perspective was that I was
hitting him up for adderall like any
decent college student would and when he
saw my actual quantified like metabolic
activity in the brain he was floored and
my reason for sharing this with you
right now is that look okay I AV League
NBA like one of the top three business
schools in the country depending on what
ranking you want to look at successful
startup acquired for hundreds of
millions of dollars I was kicking ass
and I was pushing so hard and I wasn’t
getting the results for the level of
pushing that I had and I I was liberated
by these results because I Mike wait
it’s not a mole
failing it’s not an effort failing it’s
a biological thing and I can hack
biology right hacking your morals is
very different like hacking some
inherent weakness or character flaw
you’re probably screwed if that’s really
what it’s about and most people believe
that’s what it’s about it’s not about
effort it’s not about trying harder it’s
not about willpower its aftermath
biology wow that’s it’s ingenious man I
and love it I uh you know I admittedly I
work really hard as well and I i am i’m
not the best with diet I mean I I eat
what I can as a necessity type of thing
and and and that’s kind of how it stands
for me you know and and there’s a desire
to change that there’s a genuine desire
to you know match how hard I work to
putting that effort that same effort
into my food and what I’m putting into
my body where I mean where do you think
your greatest breakthrough as far as
what you were consuming and and how it
affected you where did that where did
that happen for you well a long time ago
I was in my early 20s I’m 43 right now
so this is about 20 18 20 years ago I
was probably around 280 pounds I’ve lost
a little bit of weight and I have lost
hundred pounds of fat I’ve actually
probably lost like 200 pounds of fat cuz
you lose 20 pounds you gain 30 lose 30
gain 40 and everyone who’s fat and has
been fat for well understands that
dynamic it’s horrible and there’s a
hormonal reason for it it’s not because
you know you have no willpower it’s
because of a hormone called ghrelin and
one called cck by the way you can hack
those with bulletproof coffee and things
like that but for me I decided I was not
going to have any more knee surgeries
and I would decide I was going to lose
the weight and it was the most important
thing I could do in my life so I’m still
finishing up my sixth year to get my
four-year degree and I which by the way
is a BS in computer information systems
with a concentration in decision support
which is part of the
the artificial intelligence world so
that was what I ended up graduating in
but I’m going to classes i’m working in
IT at a hospital and i’m working out for
an hour and a half every day six days a
week no matter what else is on my
calendar i put it as the most important
thing I could do I did this for a year
and a half right half cardio which is a
treadmill at 15 degrees not running but
walking really fast with a backpack on
some of the time and the rest of his
weights heavy weights so at the end of
this time I can max almost every single
machine at the 24 hour fitness I can
benchpress my thin friends will they
french fries and i’m eating salads and
crap i was still fat and i was just like
man it’s because I’m weak right because
I didn’t try hard enough it’s because I
couldn’t say no to you know that one
extra leaf of lettuce and all that
stupid programming that people have
because we believe that it’s about
exercise more and eat less well I pushed
that as hard as it could and one day I
just kind of throw my hands Mike this
just isn’t working what what’s wrong
like and I thought it was me and there’s
this moment run equate it’s not me I’m
doing what they said like I’m eating
less than 2,000 calories a day are using
around 1800 I cut my fat you know I I’m
not doing I’m not doing well so I was at
this coffee shop I was getting like a
triple espresso something or another and
there was a body builder magazine now
i’m in a farming community in central
California in 1990 something and I don’t
know back then you didn’t really read
bodybuilding magazines unless you like
to look at pictures of guys in bikinis
and stuff at least not in my high school
like like that we had a future farmers
of america chapter that was pretty
strong there and I so I’m at this coffee
shop and there’s magazine with these a
big ripped bodybuilder on the cover and
it’s like how you can get abs I’m like I
want abs like I’ve got flabs right now
and I’m in my wits in but you know I’ll
be damned if I’m not strong so I opened
up the magazine and there was an article
I wish I knew which one it was I wish
I’d saved it and it was a guy saying you
know what even fruit can make you fat
like carbs make you fat who would have
thought and I’m like are you kidding me
like that’s what I’ve been doing
so I started cutting carbs and I wasn’t
that good back then I hadn’t done my
homework so I was having like lots of
cottage cheese in the morning but I was
also having some orange juice with it
because I didn’t know any better and i
ended up losing 50 pounds like half the
way to had to lose in about three months
and in retrospect i also cut out gluten
which was a major thing for me when I
got rid of lots of the the carbs and I
get rid of gluten not not only did I
lose that 50 pounds I also had a
personality change I actually became a
nicer person and the people closest to
me my family and girlfriends and whatnot
they all said it like wow you’re nicer I
noticed that my middle finger wasn’t
quite as muscular after driving and I
just felt something shift in my brain
and now this is actually widely
recognized you look at books like wheat
belly and grain brain both written by by
friends I’m I’m kind of blown away but
yeah that did happen to me and I did
notice it and that set me off on a path
it was like well if that much of how I
feel and just the way I interact with
the world is controlled by my food I
better own that food and I should make a
study of it I i mentioned earlier my my
degree decision support systems this is
how do you use technology to look at
huge amounts of data to make better
decisions yeah that’s what I do in my
life that’s what I did to help build
Internet infrastructure like the world’s
first pay-as-you-go cloud computing
thing I just just everything that I do
it’s like I’m a walking a ventilation
yeah yeah it’s a way of thinking and
it’s a hacker way of thinking and I
really was a computer hacker likely yeah
that’s why this works and that’s why i
like the word biohacking and my job at
bulletproof is to teach people how to
think about this the the other thing
that I put in as part of my mission
Xavier is something that I learned at UC
Santa Barbara I took a class called
religion and violence
this was taught by a rabbinical scholar
and this guy was really good and we were
listening to Jim Jones and looking at
Hamas and all these these times when
religion would cause violence and I was
really kind of tormented by why could
this happen and my assumption was that
all all these religious radicals were
just irrational and I said that and it
when he ain’t as an answer to a question
to the professor in class and he laughed
and said no no no these are very
rational beings I’m like how could you
blow people up and drink kool-aid and
all this stuff it doesn’t make any sense
and he said you know it doesn’t make any
sense because of your assumptions if you
look at their assumptions about reality
what they’re doing makes perfect sense
and if you look at what you’re doing
with your son’s about reality it also
makes sense so I realized that with with
bulletproof I can help people to reset
some of their assumptions or at least to
question their assumptions because my
assumption work out more and eat less
will make you lose weight it was false
in fact the vast majority of the
assumptions about how the human body
works we practice behaviors because we
think they’re going to work because of
assumptions that we never questioned so
I learned to question those things and I
teach people to question them and then
to think differently once they’re
willing to question their assumptions
yeah and that’s what you know that’s
what I love about what you’re doing and
what you do and how you’re able to
affect people and it’s literally about
kind of the art of living and minimizing
the things that affect us adversely and
kind of taking you know the power back
and you know gaining gaining the power
to control what we put into our bodies
how how what we put into our bodies
affects us and and you know really just
just having that sense of okay well you
know it’s it’s my body and and I will
choose to live this way hey here’s what
few people teach it most people will say
here’s what you to get stronger but they
don’t tell you here’s what to do to be
less week and they’re different
in in the the bulletproof diet book I
did my best to to highlight that
difference and the first thing you do is
you make sure you have enough energy by
eating fat eating enough food that your
body can use the second thing you do
before you even think about
micronutrients all that stuff is you get
rid of things that make you weak and I
came up with a list of suspect foods
that for large percentages of the
population they cause problems so one in
five people listening to it as twenty
percent of the population they get
rheumatoid arthritis from eating
potatoes and tomatoes and eggplants
right because they have genes that cause
them to express certain types of
polysaccharides on cells in their body
that stick to chemicals that plants make
so we won’t eat them it’s a stupid thing
right but if you don’t know that that
could be a problem and you’ve lived your
entire life with musculoskeletal pain
and if you stop eating that stuff for
one week you could figure out if you
were one of those one in five like it
doesn’t matter how much you exercise how
many performance-enhancing substances
you take or anything else if every
single day you’re smacking yourself over
the head by doing something that’s
biologically incompatible with you it
seems to me that stopping the stuff that
makes you weak is a lot easier than
adding more muscle mass or adding more
IQ points for anything else so most of
my best hacks are actually about
stopping things that were limiting me
not doing things to enhance my
performance yeah yeah that makes a lot
of sense actually that that makes more
sense than the other way I mean I know
that you you work hard and you’re always
kind of on an airplane or something and
you’re you and you’re put you’re pushing
your body a lot and so how do you deal
with stress the impacts of you know
stress on your body and and just the
hard work aspect of it there are two
kinds of stress on the body there’s a
hermetic stress which is stress that
makes you stronger and then there’s a
chronic stress or non hormetic stress
which is stuff that just makes you weak
I minimize very
religiously the stuff that makes you
weak so exercises for medic stress it
tears down muscles so you’ll grow muscle
back you expose yourself to something
that you’re afraid of so that you can
wire yourself to not be afraid of it
anymore so that you can face your fears
and things like that those are positives
dresses if your body feels like you’re
going to die every time an email comes
in which is actually the case for most
people because our bodies are really bad
at sorting out whether an email that
might be a threat is any different than
a tiger that might be a threat so our
threat detection systems are woefully
inadequate for the world we live in and
they keep getting triggered by stupid
stuff so i rewired a lot of that and I
say rewired I’ve spent ten weeks of my
life doing 40 years of Zen neurofeedback
training where literally i’m spending
all week with electrodes glued to my
head in a chamber in on the chamber 24
hours a day but to the extent i can be
in it listening to my brain waves and
learning how to control them and going
through every single bad programming in
my mind and pulling it out and putting
in more appropriate biological responses
emails when i do not feel a stress
response from emails my inbox is full i
do not feel a stress response from it in
my inbox is empty i do not feel a sense
of relief from that i have let that go
so i also minimize a physical stress
that isn’t beneficial so I don’t eat
foods that cause inflammation in me I’d
rather fast in fact fasting isn’t that’s
actually a hormetic stressed if you fast
a normal amount eating foods that are
bad for you is oftentimes not a hermetic
stress it’s just something that makes
you weak so I I manage my energy very
very carefully and what I found is that
I have more energy than people 20 years
younger than me work for me like I’m up
later and I’m full of passion and
invigaron things I never had when I was
20 or 25 I was I was like a zombie half
the time I was really tired I felt
hungover even when I wasn’t drinking and
I just didn’t have the energy to bring
it so I’ve made a study of having the
energy to bring it I practiced radical
recovery where I used to do this the
exercise six days a week kind of thing
now
look at how much sleep did I get last
night I’ll tell you last night i was up
till four thirty in the morning because
i’m working on my next New York Times
bestseller which is about about
mitochondrial function and about what
we’re capable of doing when you really
hack your biology and well that was 430
I know it’s 1130 now so I do the math
right it’s been seven hours since then
but I’ve been up for several hours I
made coffee with my kids this morning
and all that do I sound like I’m
dragging like I’m not no I can do that
day after day it’s not good for me if I
do that for a long period of time I feel
it for a couple nights it doesn’t matter
because my ability to make electrons and
my cells is higher than it was and
because I’m not wasting any of them on
worry and on fear because I’ve trained
my heart rate variability the way I
teach clients to do it where my
fight-or-flight response is
fundamentally different than that of a
normal person and I’m an abnormal person
kind of like that is is meditation and
mindfulness a big thing for you
meditation mindfulness is almost
everything the only problem is try
having meditation mindfulness without
enough electrons in your brain it
doesn’t work so what I recommend for
people is number one get your biology in
order and then number two practice
mindfulness practice awareness I’ve been
to Tibet and learn meditation from the
Masters on purpose because of like well
I’m a Silicon Valley engineer I’ve
tapped out everything I can think of
here my-my strictly rational view of
reality doesn’t match the experiences
that I’m having and I’m not getting all
the results I want from it so I’ve done
ayahuasca with shamans I did that what
15 years ago in the jungles in Peru so
I’ve done art of living breathing
exercises that are practiced by tens of
millions of people mostly in India I’ve
met Nobel laureates doing that kind of
breathing and very powerful
entrepreneurs we used to get together
when I lived in Silicon Valley every
every saturday morning at 7am we’d sit
and do an hour hour and a half of these
funky breathing
sizes because it just was such a
performance enhancer so I do all those
things and even 40 years n which is
where I’ve had the most progress it’s
called 40 years n because the idea is
that in in a few days of training you
can teach someone’s brain to have the
same brain waves as someone who’s spent
twenty to forty years of doing dailies
and meditation so I cheat in my
meditation if I meditate there’s
computers telling my brain no do it this
way do it better do it faster so I I
might be one of those hurry meditate
faster people but I walk with
mindfulness like it’s built into what I
do and I pay attention to what I say I
pay attention not just how I act but to
whether my internal state matches my
external state that gives you profound
resilience especially when you get
trolls and and just all these these
crazy people the more successful you get
the more of them you attract that was
those gonna be something that I led
towards so I mean how do you deal with
that I mean there’s I mean being at the
level that you’re at and you must get
you know a lot of people who are trying
to debunk your work or just for no
reason whatsoever just don’t like you I
mean how how do you respond to that how
do you react to that how do you
psychologically deal with that when when
I first was getting going there’s
there’s just so much support and I just
bring a lot of positive energy of what
I’m doing like I i I’m already
successful enough that I’m safe right
hey so I’m doing something that that is
here for a mission I and it’s it’s
important work and it’s something that
I’ve worked for years and a non-profit
role to try and bring about and I just
couldn’t make it happen that way because
nonprofits just aren’t structure that
way so I’m taking something that for me
is a passion and I am taking it out
there and then all of a sudden a someone
who had been a really big supporter I my
work change his life a public figure
basically invested in another company
that was competing with me and a long
time Dave Asprey fans know exactly who
I’m talking about and honestly I don’t
really I just don’t care but he he
invested in another company had a
commercial motivate
shin and literally went overnight to
Dave Asprey is a scumbag and and since
like a whole bunch of trolls to like to
face my social media pages and all kind
of stuff like that and it threw me for a
loop for a couple months because I’m
coming at this from like a mission like
I’m helping people everyday like like
sometimes dozens of people are like
they’ve got understand I just got my dad
back like I got this one this one email
this is a couple years ago but the guys
like dave i’m emailing you personally
because i hope you can help i’m in the
UK this is before we roasted our coffee
in the UK before you could buy bowl of
fruit products there and he’s like my
dad has terminal brain cancer he’s he
may have a month or six weeks left to
live I can I only get one good hour a
day with him and it’s right after he has
bulletproof coffee he’s lucid and the
rest of the day he’s gone it’s like I
ordered bulletproof but I can’t like it
went to Argentina instead of the UK and
I don’t know why but it like I need it
so I like personally fedexed it to him
and to get around all the customs and
all that stuff but so I come from that
sort of thing I’m like okay my work just
helped a guy get quality time with his
dying dad like that’s the level that I
operate at and I went from that to like
people you know calling me like an
asshole scumbag snake oil salesman and
all that so what I did is I went to the
40 years of Zen facilities plugged
myself into a neurofeedback machine and
I did a very structured practice of
forgiveness and I actually forgave the
person for doing this I understand you
know when people come with the world
from a threatened perspective where
everything is a takedown that’s that’s
how they see things and so this guys are
coming to you know have a competing
thing with a friend and so I’m going to
attempt to smear Dave’s reputation okay
a guy who makes loaded dick jokes just
called me a scumbag liar we tried to
drag my name
through the mud the amount of stress
that I felt over that was all wasted
stress and I don’t feel any stress over
it anymore like you don’t have to like
me I’m gonna do the work that I’m gonna
do here I honestly I don’t care about
that stuff anymore at a very deep level
because I already let things go so I
actually feel a sense of compassion for
the people who want to you know come in
and try and deface what they do in fact
yesterday someone just posted on my on
my Facebook page they called me a quack
and I responded to it I’m like I’m like
let me be really clear I’m an unlicensed
biohacker I mean you have lots of
doctors as friends I married to one
whatever but I’m not a doctor I’m like
so from your perspective of it you just
upgraded me like you just told me you
think I’m a physician even though I know
like so here’s the deal like like if
you’re gonna troll me I would expect you
to at least like like do it right so the
right term would be like snake oil
salesman right and then I linked to my
last April Fool’s Day post which was
actually about grass-fed snake oil where
we spin the snakes at high speed and
then let them go on to a snake sanctuary
dude this stuff it’s laughable and the
other thing you get successful a guy
named Peter sage who is one of the most
popular gaston bulletproof radio really
help help me to see this is what happens
you know the better the better you do
the more successful you are the more
people’s egos get involved the more
jealous they get of your success yeah I
that every day and there’s there’s
people out there who I have supported
dramatically in getting the message out
there they get jealous like why am I not
getting whatever this is and then all
the sudden it’s like Dave Asprey is a
thing and people make up the weirdest
stuff and there’s people who say I have
cancer there’s people say I have type 2
diabetes there’s people who say there’s
stuff in my products that isn’t there I
mean like just crazy stuff out there so
the number one thing I say is I’m like
look where that’s coming from and then I
keep a little equation my back pocket
Savior and it’s one I would encourage
everyone who is in this role where
you’re succeeding and there are people
trying to it to drag you down is that it
takes a minute or two for a troll to
write something on your page or whatever
else it takes you about a half a sec
to click ban delete okay I went every
knit Sony man it’s like you know it’s
it’s great and i love the just the
rawness and i can and i can feel you
know that you actually you do care and
and I mean I’m kind of the same way and
I you know this morning I was up that’s
just checking the page for the show and
there’s just guy just losing it losing
his mind I’d even understand I wasn’t
really even saying anything i post an
article and and he just and and that’s
exactly what I did you know i just i
just banned him from the page and but at
the same time you know I and it maybe
it’ll take me a couple more years or
just you know maybe it’ll just click one
day and but you know it it doesn’t
affect me a little bit and it affects
most people it it’s supposed to because
you’re human and you’re part of a tribe
right and this is our wiring we are
we’re meant to fit in and at a very core
level we’re kind of pack animals so if
you’re not a part of the pack you could
die and the automated defense systems
that you have will get triggered by this
because you’re human what you can do
with deep meditation practice and
scripting practices and all all sorts of
different ways for me it’s it’s almost
all about heart rate variability and
like that that deep forgiveness with the
electrode stucked on my head so I have a
lie detector telling you whether I’ve
really forgiven or not but when you do
that you actually can change your
biological response to that where I
would say ninety percent of the time it
just doesn’t get to me at all the area
where I still have a little bit of a hot
button is when I’ve really provided like
like a huge amount of service where I’ve
helped someone and then they do like the
betrayal thing I’ve had times or I’ll
take someone I’ll put them on the show
or I’ll do something really nice to
support them and then two weeks later
they’re like hey have you heard my new
coffee its mold three it’s not actually
tested mold free but I just said it and
they’re like it’s like dude what the
hell right like this isn’t how we help
each other like do something new and
interesting
talk about it but if you’re going to
knock off my stuff without even knocking
off right there’s another company that
used to used to be a supporter they’re
selling some mix of water and mct oil
which they know very well it doesn’t
work it’s about 12.5 percent the
strength of what I do and it’s more
expensive on a per unit basis but it’s
watered down and they’re running around
you know talking about things like that
that that one instance I got over it but
still it does kind of it does throw me
for a loop when someone you’re like okay
like I’ve invited you to come on my show
or I put you at the bulletproof
conference you know thousands of people
and like shined a spotlight on your work
because I think it’s worthy and then
you’re going to turn around and like
tell me I’m an asshole like that I still
that still pushes my buttons for about
usually about an hour or two and then
there’s there’s some specific things I
can do heart rate variability there’s a
that forgiveness thing I can I have
electrodes and EEG machines here or i
can I can go to my facility in Seattle
where I train my executives and I do the
40 years of Zen program that stuff I can
really dig deep on and if that doesn’t
work I have in-house legal counsel and
I’m not afraid to use it I don’t have to
pay per hour for attorneys all right so
you want throw down let’s throw down
it’s gonna cost you more that’s going to
cost me wow that’s that’s funny and kind
of you know real at the same time just
because you know I its loyalty is so
important I mean you have to you have to
be loyal man especially to you know
someone who is offering something to you
that you would otherwise they’re just
take you a long time to see and and I
agree a hundred percent I mean um that
that betrayal hurts a lot okay there’s
there’s integrity and then there’s
loyalty and loyalty is sometimes blind
right so so if you’re loyal to someone
who is you know starts killing babies
you are not acting in integrity so I’m
fine if someone I used to work with
sides all right I’m going to sever ties
and I’m going to go compete at i would
say oftentimes that’s without integrity
like if you know i’m backing their
company or something and they decide to
do it weird stuff like that can happen
but the the bigger thing about integrity
there is that if you feel like to go
compete the first thing you have to do
is you have to actually take down the
person who helped you before that’s like
a really deep level of integrity that’s
lacking and that’s an area where i think
a lot of people carry a lot of shame in
fear and and like all their bad like
early childhood experiences are all
mushed up in their head i know because i
had all that too i just unraveled it all
so I I kind of feel the most compassion
for the people back that way cuz like
they’re kind of living in hell and they
don’t they don’t really know it it’s
still irritating though because it’s
like guys like come on don’t far in the
elevator like this isn’t how we help
each other like I have dozens of new
york times bestselling authors who I
consider like good friends who’ve helped
me bring the message out and like I do
anything for them and they would do
anything for me and we would never do
that to each other and then every now
and then someone shows up and is just
like you know kind of tries to try to
insert themselves in the community and
then just shows up without integrity and
they get booted by the immune system of
cool PF yeah yeah I’ve noticed that too
and that’s that’s the amazing thing
about I think this community and I mean
there are good aspects and there’s
there’s always going to be those people
who kind of are jealous they’re envious
they want what you have and and they’re
just going to come at you that way so I
mean I’m glad we we covered that right
on a curious note though Dave I mean if
I can ask how many how many bridges like
through you know you’ve been doing this
for a while how many bridges do you
think have been burned through you know
launching your companies and kind of
being at the point you’re at you know no
real bridges have been burned right
there were some times where I’d like oh
I thought that person was was cool or I
thought our stuff was aligned
there was nothing there right this comes
down to to me that the rise is straight
up from meditation and awareness and
it’s called discernment right it’s my
job as the CEO bulletproof and as the
vanguard of a movement now around
biohacking it’s actually a huge
responsibility to that and it means I
have an even higher bar for when I
decide who’s going to be a guest on my
show like a million people might hear
what that person has to say like I don’t
want to put someone up there who’s is
going to steer people to do things that
are harmful or to spread misinformation
I put people I’ve had a guy who’s a
radical low fat like no added fat to
your food any kind of thing and like we
just agree to disagree on that and we
talk about some other stuff and it’s all
cool like I’m happy to challenge my
ideas but i don’t want to harm people
right and i don’t want to put people who
are are those takedown people who
believe that the way to the way to win
instead of to create something amazing
and to share it is to take down someone
else to make themselves look better it’s
like dude you were bullied in high
school I get it but now you’re like you
know a 50 year old adult so you can let
that go now and like let’s do something
real right my job is to filter those out
when I’m hiring people when I’m
partnering with people when I’m inviting
people to to spend some time in the the
media sphere that that I’ve created on
the media side of bulletproof it’s a
pretty big thing and I’m spending more
and more of my time on on discernment
and just just kind of feeling into it
and and using those softer skills which
did not come naturally to me but that’s
what you’ve got to do in a position like
this in order to have the maximum
positive benefit I mean an end David
thank you for answering that question
and you know a large part of what you
talked about as well as it’s just
gratitude and and for me that’s a big
thing as well and just being in the
space being here right now being able to
talk to you and I have a lot of
gratitude for that I mean how how
important is gratitude for you
it’s the most important thing you can do
to reset your nervous system to get out
of the fight or flight mode and when I
say this until I was 30 I was in the
fight-or-flight mode of the time I was
born with my umbilical cord wrapped
around my neck I came into the world
thinking that it was a hostile place was
something that was trying to kill me and
I never dropped that until I did some
really deep work right so I understand
that that mindset said very very well
and I don’t I I just don’t think that
it’s it’s necessary for people to be
there but I have been in that state for
so much my life that now I I spent a lot
of time not being there yeah Dave when
when we you know when we talk about all
these these biohacking tools and kind of
retooling the way that we we perceive
threats and and other people how
important is it to really be consistent
with you know our practice and and what
we’re doing to to kind of maintain those
changes let’s go back to that gratitude
hack for getting out of getting out of
that fight-or-flight mode it doesn’t
make sense that gratitude would be the
antidote for like being fearful all the
time but its programming in your biology
that says hey the world is either a
fearful place full of threats and you
should optimize your biology to survive
or the world is full of hopefully don’t
mind us but it’s full of awesome
things and you should program yourself
to thrive well gratitude is what does
that so in terms of consistency every
night before bed I sit down with my two
young kids and we do a little gratitude
ritual and I say tell me three things
you’re grateful for that happened today
and it could be anything right I’m
grateful that you know we had a pork
belly for dinner
fine right not so long ago a learn he
was five he’s like daddy I’m grateful
for the Big Bang because without it
there wouldn’t be anything okay that’s
gratitude for you right it turns out
it’s really good for them because it
resets their nervous system they sleep
the night like so reliably like it’s
amazing actually and I do the same thing
with them I tell them through things I’m
grateful for and sometimes it’s it’s I’m
grateful for things they don’t quite
understand but that’s the one thing it
doesn’t cost you anything to write down
the three things you’re grateful for you
do that it’s really cool there’s a
five-minute journal is like a gratitude
focused journal that that’s out there I
really feel that that is is one of the
best things you can do if you are an
experienced meditator or you’ve done
this neurofeedback stuff that I’m
talking about there’s actually a
physical sensation of gratitude it’s
like in your chest you can feel it and
you can amplify that and when you you
focus on the physical sensations of
emotions they all have a seat somewhere
in the body and they’re the seat is in a
different place with different people
depending on where they came from but
you can use that to amplify the
gratitude and pretty soon you’re like
wow it this is a wonderful place and it
doesn’t matter if some terrorists did
something so it’s something evil today
it doesn’t matter if your revenues are
up or your revenues are down or you know
you got in a fight with your significant
other like the world’s still an amazing
place and if you just focus on that for
a little while it changes your nervous
system it changes your biology and
that’s one of the hacks you can do Wow
yeah it’s beautiful man i love it i
really really really truly value you
know that what you’re saying and I I you
know I do my best to exercise the same
and you know those those emotional
muscles where you know I’m putting down
what I’m grateful for and reminding
myself that you know I’ve been given
this huge opportunity to reach people
and affect people and you know I get
emails
all the time and thanking me for this
and I I’m very very grateful for you
know all of it if we can just if we can
actually stick with what the emotional
part of it and address anger a little
bit how how do you deal with it I mean
is it something that is still part of
who you are or have you kind of hacked
your way out of that as well you know
anger always always exists it’s a part
of it’s a part of your ego and your ego
is a part of the operating system for
keeping your meat alive I call the
Labrador brain in in the bulletproof
diet and whether it pissed me off to
call that book bulletproof diet but
that’s what makes people buy books like
like like seriously this is about
willpower this is about like everything
you can do to kick more ass like like
how dare you call it a diet honestly I
don’t even care if I have abs I care
about how I feel right so that’s sort of
that sort of was a little anger right
there but it passes and there’s there’s
actually an emotional hierarchy that’s
really important to understand and and
it turns out the very worst place to be
as apathy like if you’re the place where
you just don’t give a that is the
darkest place you can be because you
can’t even be bothered to care and that
apathy always hides sadness right so
you’re sad about something so when you
get past apathy now you carry like how I
got a face sighs now I have to like deal
with the fact that I’m actually sad that
that somebody’s going on and after that
then you can feel anger so the good news
is that if you are feeling angry about
something you just bypass two of the
steps that you might have had to go
through you can be grateful for that by
the way did you did you ever uh get a
chance to read power vs force yeah yeah
he taught he talks about that in that
book where it kind of you go apathy
being the base state and then you move
through
oh and and then anger is that pivotal
state where you can kind of change the
way you feel about a certain situation
you get bitten and a lot of people
especially younger people and certainly
went when i was 25 aight i believe this
very fervently like anger is a great
source of energy right and it’s actually
not a good source of motivation energy
if you’re acting out of anger you will
always make sub optimal decisions and
it’ll cost you emotionally and
psychologically and biologically but yet
anger is a pivotal point and what’s
hiding behind anger every single time is
actually fear and that’s where for me
neurofeedback and Harvey variability in
just meditation in general have become
really important because if you can see
what it is that you’re actually afraid
of it’s never a rational because fear is
not rational fear is actually an emotion
which means it isn’t the thought and
what we do and this was transformative
for me to understand and I write about
this on some of my blog posts and all is
it’s that look your nervous system
reacts and then you make up a logical
story about why you did it and we can
prove this with electrodes like we can
see it happening you do it and then you
tell yourself a story about it and the
same as fear of anger you felt the anger
and then you tell yourself a story i’m
angry because you know my my whatever i
mean it hurt my favorites I’m angry
because someone cut me off in traffic
well actually that’s not why you’re
angry right you’re angry for some other
reason and if you actually sit down and
journal about and feel into it all that
stuff it comes down to the fact that
always behind your anger there’s fear
and God knows what your fear is and
where that came from but it’s usually
the first seven years of life you get
really bad programming doesn’t matter
how good your parents are you just get
bad programming because that’s how the
world works so behind anger sphere and
behind fear is actually joy and freedom
and all those good things so if
someone’s angry about something or if
I’m angry about something I’m like well
okay what am I actually afraid of here
because that’s what it means and also I
don’t describe the anger to me like I’m
angry like my nervous system gets angry
like I’m the good stuff so my view of
the brain is a little bit radical there
but
we are the part of you that you
identifies you right now the rational
parts that have some good feelings doll
that stuff that’s basically a virtual
machine running inside a piece of
hardware it like there’s a different
consciousness that runs your meat and
it’s not a nice person and it wants to
kill things that wants to eat everything
and it’s got all that’s what that is
yeah he’s got all the greed it’s got all
the all the violence all the hate all
that kind of stuff alright so when
someone comes to the one of my pages are
wants to insult me or whatever else okay
I know what part of them is in charge
and what it is it’s their meat operating
systems it’s their Labrador brain and
they’re acting out of well apathy
sadness anger or fear all right then
operating out of joy and like that’s
right hang out operating out of sense of
mission I know I’m helping a lot of
people I have a wonderful family and
like I’m grateful right so it’s just a
different place in the emotional
hierarchy and I I’m grateful that I’ve
learned how to spend so much of my life
in that state instead of those other
horrible places so I feel anger but no
you you take the anger and you’re like
okay that’s coming from my ego and
there’s a reason for it and I’m going to
let it go do you ever feel like you are
kind of five or ten years ahead of
everything you’re doing and maybe
humanity is a bit primitive and slow and
kind of catching up that would be a form
of ill will or a version that be a
really egotistical thought I don’t okay
I can tell you that my entire life I am
I’ve lived in the future the first
ecommerce ever on the planet was a
tshirt out of a dorm room I remember I
was interviewed by like almost a hundred
different magazines around like this 20
something-year-old like early 20s before
like a lot of the cool changes that make
that much easier now and someone asked
me like like what how is this going to
change things I said look we won’t need
mail-order catalogs in just five years
and I
described amazon to this reporter like
the Amazon didn’t exist but I described
it right I could see it and then I go to
go to Silicon Valley and like the very
first colocation company which is like
that enabled the changes in the internet
that we know today that allow us to have
a conversation we’re having now in fact
probably some fiber that my company
dealt with our buildings we built our
between us right now which is awesome so
that’s just part of it like like I think
about how things are going to be maybe I
read too much science fiction as a kid
but I don’t think I’m an advanced
creature I think that this is how it’s
supposed to be for everyone and there’s
just a lot of crap in the way and it’s
my job to just illuminate the crap and
how people get rid of it and the the
cheapest fastest laziest way possible
life is supposed to be easy you’re not
supposed to be struggling and striving
all the time and when you can stop
struggling and striving you can start
gliding or coasting and it’s actually a
lot more fun it’s just getting there for
me took an enormous amount of heavy
lifting and frankly like hundreds and
hundreds and hundreds of thousands of
dollars but I learned a few things along
the way and that’s why I have a neuro
feedback training institute that’s why I
have a Content things why I write these
books because if I can spend 5000 hours
to write a book that takes you four
hours to read like that some of the most
leverage time you’ll ever get mom yeah
and that’s what I do yeah wow man I’d
really really appreciate your time Dave
in it and we’re we’re about out of it
you know I really truly respect your
work man and and I’m glad that you made
the time to be here today and just uh
just thank you well thanks Savior I
appreciate the work you’re doing getting
getting the word out to just talking
about the human experience it’s
important stuff and it’s something that
that I think is shifting you people are
willing to talk about emotions and
feelings and spiritual things you should
go back 20 25 years if you talked about
those things you were ostracized from
and all that and now you go to a
boardroom and like who’s meditating yeah
and if you’re not meditating people sort
of make fun of you okay maybe it’s not
quite that bad but it is it’s very
widely accepted so things have changed
the paradigm has changed and somehow
it’s filtered in to this and and yeah
and ten years ago I mean maybe even
earlier than 20 and it was it was it
wasn’t really heard of to go and you
know meditate and people weren’t you
know and so now it’s picking up and it’s
a good thing it’s good i mean i’m glad
that the global human consciousness is
kind of waking up to what the planet is
and you know one of your one of your
other missions is an ecological one
where we’re actually helping the planet
and you know giving it but getting it
its life back and being conscious of
what we take from it and and that’s what
it’s another thing that i just really
respect value men well say thanks so
much i guess we didn’t have time to talk
about that one but yeah you change you
change demand for good stuff the
suppliers have to change and that is
happening and shortages of grass-fed
butter are leading to much more
grassland being put in production to
have healthier soil like this is a
hackable system the whole planet and
everything every decision you make it
goes one direction or the other and you
don’t have to be anywhere near perfect
just when you have an opportunity to
know which of two decisions is the one
that’s better for you or better for the
planet or hopefully both just pick that
one especially don’t care right like
like oh I was okay either way let me
pick the one that had more benefit
justjust yeah where matters yeah man Wow
beautifully stated so Dave where can I
people pick up a copy of your book where
can people find your work well head on
over to bulletproof calm and try some of
that brain octane oil i talked about try
the bulletproof coffee beans that don’t
have a neurotoxin and then that’s common
in coffee and you can buy the book there
you can buy the book on amazon all over
the place i’m not kidding about the
effect of the supplements and of the
foods and of these other things if you
want to meditate better you
need stable energy in your brain it’s
it’s just required being being in a
weakened state while you’re pushing
really hard on personal growth doesn’t
make any sense and it never did so fuel
yourself perfectly and then meditate and
see how your experience changes that
that’s really meaningful bulletproof
calm and bulletproof radio is on itunes
and bulletproof exact calm there’s north
of a half a million words of content
they’re all free for you yeah and I
meant to ask you this and what what’s in
your stack right now what do you what
are you supplement right now well I’m
about to go get some stem cells taken
out of my adipose tissue and then
injected my cerebral spinal fluid so I
actually grow more brain cells that’s
happening next week fact for people
interested i will have the physician who
does that kind of work on stage of the
bulletproof conference is sep tember
23rd through 25th bulletproof conference
com boom got a plug-in but that is that
means I’ve changed my stack I’ve gone
off all the things that typically make
your blood thinner so I’m taking less
turmeric krill oil and several the
vitamins and a lot of the the plant
based compounds that I use that increase
cerebral blood flow I’m off of those I’m
taking aniracetam i have had unfair
advantage this morning i’ve had upgraded
aging this morning i’ve had bulletproof
coffee with lots of brain octane and be
bulletproof upgraded collagen in it
let’s see i’m drinking some interesting
structured water I’ve been spending a
lot of time looking at this thing that
we ignore in our body which is that
we’re like ninety percent water and sort
of like let’s take away water weight
well Gerald Pollack who was on a
bulletproof radio just blew my mind
talking about how actually water does
different things he’s a very prestigious
scientist who’s also speaking at the
conference so I’m really spending more
time looking at the water and my cells
and I could do there and that’s all i’ve
had today is bulletproof coffee with a
little bit of upgraded collagen i put
some of my vanilla in there vanilla has
some plant based compound similar to
capsaicin
they’re called vanilloid activators so
use some of that for its inflammatory
properties and let’s let’s see Wow a few
amazing some stem cells for lunch and
and call a day exactly alright guys you
guys heard here my guess is Dave Asprey
and you can get to his site bulletproof
calm this is the human experience and we
will see you guys next week