welcome to the human experience podcast

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strangers thank you for listening the

human experience is in session my name

is Xavier katana ladies and gentlemen

we’ve got an incredible show planned for

you folks tonight so sit back grab a

drink and preferably a smoke for this

episode and enjoy this conversation my

guest for today is mr. Chris Bennett

Chris Bennett has been researching the

historical role of cannabis in the

spiritual life of humanity for more than

a quarter of a century Chris is widely

recognized as one of the foremost

authorities on the history of cannabis

having written dozens of articles in

cannabis culture High Times and other

magazines as well as three books dealing

with the subject Bennett’s research has

received international attention from

the BBC Guardian Sunday Times Washington

Post’s vice and now the human experience

he currently resides in Vancouver

British Columbia Chris it’s a pleasure

welcome to hxp so glad to have you on

the show Chris why don’t you kick this

off with just a brief introduction very

briefly of who you are and what you do

please well thank you I’ve got a shop

here in Vancouver called the urban

shaman and we provide a variety of in

theo botanical plants peyote ayahuasca

things like that and i’m also a cannabis

researcher i’ve written four books

actually on the history of cannabis

greengold material like marijuana

religion which came out in 2005 sex

drugs violence in the Bible which came

out in 2001 cannabis in the soma

solution which came out in 2010 and more

recently or Liebherr 4/20 cannabis

magical herbs and the occult which came

out in 2018 mm-hmm I mean you’ve been

doing you can researching and doing this

for a long time but did you just say

that you provide

you know ayahuasca and peyote there in

Canada yeah whatever plants I can that

are not scheduled here you know uh

within reason but a variety of plants

like that and I’ve been doing that here

for a very long time I also have the

retreat here in British Columbia soma

Institute which facilitates that type of

thing as well okay okay cool so you know

let’s let’s dive in here Chris I mean in

1990 you experienced a profound

religious experience where it was

revealed to you that cannabis was what

the tree of life in the Bible Book of

Revelations I mean there was a dream

journal involved and some of the imagery

related to the various references in the

Book of Revelations how did how this

happen tell us about this experience you

know I think a lot of religious

experience it was a combination of

events and also substances you know in

my case it was cannabis but I’d you know

these cannabis for a long time before

that and hadn’t had any sort of

experience like this but in regards to

events the first of the events that took

place was here in Canada there was a

really big scandal involving the

Catholic Church where they had been

exposed for pedophilia at the Mount

Cashel orphanage and what had happened

is kids had grown up and started coming

out and talking about it was the first

time this sort of thing was even talked

about in the press here and that got me

interested I was like what gee I thought

religion was about something other than

that I’m gonna read the Bible and I

started I had a job as a night watchman

had a lot of time to read you know and I

started reading the Bible coinciding

with this I found out about the

industrial applications of hemp how we

could make all our paper out of cannabis

all our our clothes are even fuel at the

Mendeley good source of protein and the

seeds and other things like that and

then also coinciding was the Gulf War

started in Iraq and Saddam Hussein that

fired a scud missile into Israel and

because of this people were beginning to

compare him to Nebuchadnezzar it was the

last king of babylon babylon since in

Iraq and Saddam looked at comparison and

so one night I was sitting in this fish

plant where I was a night watchman about

2:00 in the morning and I was reading

this newspaper and in those days they

used to advertise television in a

newspaper there’s no internet and there

was an advertisement for a sermon by Pat

Robertson and it said revelations 18 the

fall of Babylon

there’s Robertson at the pulpit behind

he’s got picture tanks and jets and I

was like reading it and I was like whoa

they’re tying in the book of Revelation

with this gulf war in Iraq and I thought

well I’m going to read the book of

Revelation right now and so I have this

Bible that I had sitting in the night

watchman’s office you know and I began

reading it at the beginning of the story

in the book of Revelation John of Patmos

is given a scroll and he puts it in his

mouth and it tastes as sweet as honey

and he swallows it it turns bitter in

his stomach and he begins to prophesize

and I I was like what on earth did he

ingest to get that effect you know

uh-huh and I started reading further and

it started talking about they were all

wearing sackcloth they were given much

incense to offer and the billowing

clouds of incense contained the prayers

of the saints and it was really tripping

out thinking this is some pretty weird

imagery and I got to the very end by the

book of Revelation one of the last two

paragraphs in the Bible revelations 22

and it said on either side of the River

of Life stood the tree of life bearing

12 manners of fruit yielding is fruit

each month and the leaves of the tree

are for the healing of the nation’s

and when I read that I had this really

crazy experience where I felt like light

just beamed right into my body and I was

like whoa man this is a reference to

cannabis and all its uses for fiber for

fuel for paper and it’s healing leaves

it’s medicinal qualities you know and I

just I couldn’t shake it and I called my

wife up

time that I was married to and she

started crying and thinking I had some

sort of mental breakdown you know and

then the next day I got up and was like

was there anything to that or was I just

like tripping out and I decided at that

point well you know I was pretty sure

about hemp and I was gonna promote that

and then I would just start collecting

everything I could

regarding the role of cannabis in

religion and I started you know

accumulating a lot of information and I

guess the dream journal thing you

mentioned that came later a couple years

later I had a dream where I was locking

along a riverbed and I found an oblong

stone with an image in script and on it

and I drew it down on my dream journal

and later on I came across these

Assyrian images that purported to be

images of the Tree of Life you know and

the Assyrians were spiritual and

medicinal cannabis users as well there’s

lots of references in Assyria literature

to it and I was like whoa this is the

same image you know that I had in my

dream and since then an archaeologist in

Britain has also suggested based on her

own independent research that these same

images Julianne Steen Julie unseen are

also related to cannabis and their

original there’s there’s a lot to that

theory okay okay so yeah okay let’s talk

about the archaeological evidence of the

cannabis use in ancient civilizations

particularly with the relationship to

the Middle East which you were just

referencing what does I mean what what

time frame are we talking about we’re

talking about what five thousand years

ago evidence for archaeological evidence

of cannabis you know for fiber cannabis

which is you know cannabis used for rope

or for clothing we can go back 25

thousand years you know on in

Czechoslovakia they found evidence of

hemp rope going back this far and

Elizabeth Whelan barber who’s probably

the foremost authority on the ancient

textiles has suggested tools used for

breaking up hemp fiber it can be dated

back to 28,000 years in regards to

smoking and actually the oldest an alien

you know I’m not like smoking and pipes

or bones or joints everything I got but

inhaling from sensors

there is evidence from the Ukraine

region which purports to be 5,500 years

old of a poly pod bowl that was used to

burn cannabis textual evidence in Egypt

for for the use of cannabis goes back

like 3500 years we have a Syrian

references

you know like three thousand

twenty-eight hundred years ago starting

you know our archaeological evidence of

a Cynthia use going back to around that

same sort of time period recently in

China they found very well-preserved

evidence of high THC content cannabis at

a number of different sites ranging from

like 2900 to 2500 BC and textual

references in lecture a Syrian

literature probably like 2500 years Siri

simulation I mentioned before about 20

hundred years 2000 so in Persians are

yet persons are astral every sure I mean

in the vatta’s there’s evidence of that

that’s probably like 3,500 years old you

know it goes way way back in a variety

of cultures in China as well it’s

thought to be referred to in what is

thought to be the oldest pharmacopoeia

the Penta sow of Emperor Shennong which

some have dated as far back as 2700 BC

so you know in the oldest pharmacopoeias

area Vetta a Syrian medical text

Egyptian medical tax there’s there’s

references to medical use of cannabis

and also religious use of cannabis and a

lot of these texts as well yeah you know

I read this article of a pouch found I’m

not sure where it was I think it was in

Siberia or something like that

where there was you know they found some

bones and as well they found like a

pouch with this residue of cannabis and

some other drugs as well even cocaine

leaves coca leaves recently there was a

South American couch with evidence of

plants using ayahuasca buckle teen I

think some coca leaf and that was like a

thousand years ago but they have found

pouches with preserved cannabis at

the insights from 2700 years ago

Scythian czar a very ancient culture and

a lot of people credit them with

spreading it because they were nomadic

horse riders and horse riding itself is

thought to have been developed by an ant

ancestor of the Sith Ian’s the sir

Denny’s dog and it’s believed that the

horse was actually domesticated through

the development of hemp ropes which

allowed for them to be corralled and

untied up and things like that which was

necessary in their domestication and

it’s interesting because it’s in the

same culture that we find the oldest

evidence for for burnt cannabis and thus

if Ian’s we know did it this same way

because Herodotus wrote about them

heating up stones and putting them in

these small tepee light tent structures

and then throwing cannabis on the stones

and then sticking their heads in the

tents to inhale the fumes and this was a

pretty widespread practice among

indo-european cultures we know that

indo-europeans in China that had a I do

do being nomads and ended up in China

and lived there for about 2,000 to 400

BC before the indigenous Han Chinese

change chased them out of that region

also practiced his same method and these

are these more recent finds of really

well-preserved cannabis they know as

high THC content most recent news

stories about this area involve a

brazier with the same sort of hot rock

system and the cannabis thrown on it the

decisions in you know a Russia and even

into the Mideast and Persia were

practicing and other finds in the same

region and involved a bouquet of female

cannabis flowers placed on the body of a

burial person and also two pounds of

perfectly preserved cannabis female

cannabis in another site you know buried

in another tomb with a mummified money

so yeah pretty pretty fascinating stuff

and this this culture here in China

the trim basin they actually exported

cannabis from out that area you know

what we’ve referred to as the Silk Road

in fact of these these recent

discoveries of these indo-europeans in

China have changed the day to the Silk

Road usually thought to have started

around you know 100 BC back 2,000 years

earlier roughly you know and it’s as

much a hempen highway as it was a silk

road because it is certain that a high

quality cannabis traveled out of this

region just as other Goods traveled into

it from other areas via these trade

routes so it seems clear that there is a

direct relationship to this plant being

used widely through ancient civilization

everywhere in the in the same piece that

you wrote that I just mentioned in my

previous question for cannabis culture

you quoted Diana Steen yeah that’s right

you know you mentioned you mentioned

that archaeologists have have long

studied the the science of this

ritualistic use involving drugs and they

didn’t realize it in some way how do

they not how did I realize it I think

there’s a lot of bias you know like

people that don’t use psychoactive

substances and psychedelics cannabis or

stuff like that often don’t realize the

implications of references when they

come across it that you know they don’t

really think is that important but you

know it’s very important because these

things alter our perception and this is

why they were using these types of

rituals you know in some of the older

references say like in in in those Arian

accounts people would drink cannabis

infusions and in cannabis infused into

wine these were so powerful that they

would actually knock you out for a

couple of days and they would come back

after being knocked out and reported all

sorts of visions that they thought were

quite real events you know why one

figure are to veer off he his visions

are what developed into what we call

heaven and hell you know he reported how

the righteous were rewarded and the evil

were punished and described heavenly

like communities as well as people being

punished in

oh you know as well as what is

considered by many the prototype of the

book of Revelation the Oracle of high

stas pious a persian figure a king

no one is fished asthma but in greek i

stas pious he is his vision of the end

of time was produced by drinking the

same concoction and in these

controversial references that a number

of researchers have sent a references to

cannabis in the Hebrew under the name

kin of awesome

the idea here is that in the first of

these references in Exodus 30 23 God who

first appears to Moses and flames of

fire from within a burning bush

Commandos is to make a holy anointing

oil with about 9 pounds of cannabis

mixed with myrrh and cinnamon into about

6 liters of olive oil and every time

that Moses is to speak to the Lord he

goes and what is referred to as the tent

of the meeting which is much like the

Scythian enclosures an enclosed

tent-like structure meant to hold smoke

and fumes and then he would place some

of this same holy wood on coil on his

skin within your skins a big organ

th-these fatty soluble and is thought to

be able to pass through the skin has

been shown to in scientific stats and he

would also play some of this oil on the

altar of incense and he would speak to

the lord in the pillar of smoke over the

altar of incense the the pillar of smoke

is actually referred to as the second on

refers to the physical presence of God

in the temple and so the only time Moses

is speaking of the Lord is when there’s

smoke pouring out of his 10th meeting so

when you throw cannabis into a situation

like that now was Moses talking to some

sort of discarnating entity that was

commanding him to go him to Canon and

take over the land and bring new laws to

his people or was Moses like a shaman

who is still to this day in South

America or Africa takes psychoactive

substances and interpret the experience

of that scent of psychoactive substances

as some sort of possession or

communication with another deity ok ok

ok so we’re gonna get there we’re gonna

get to that point but I want to talk a

little bit more

about just the I mean there seems to be

a little bit of controversy because of

what you say is linguistic or etymology

Caleta ma logical issues words that are

used or misused in the history in the

usage of the history of cannabis how how

do you think that affects the literature

and how we understand you know if

cannabis is being used or something else

well you know the Hebrew references I

just referred to that’s a little more

controversial you know not not by far

the not that many people know about

these references that you know even

study Hebrew and stuff like that it’s

pretty specific stuff right and are

unaware of the controversy and you have

to really lay out the evidence for it in

a big way and there’s a lot of evidence

for kind of Awesome being cannabis

there’s been other plants suggested as

well though as I mentioned calamus a

sweet sweet grass other things as well

cinnamon even and there’s you know

debate about it but I would say that you

need to take a look at the evidence for

it and you know one of the things in the

evidence is something that’s less

controversial and this is the idea that

Assyrian references to canoe which is

very phonetically similar to kind of

Awesome i phonetically meaning sounds

very similar the way it’s spelt and

whatnot and it’s used in an identical

way as an incense and a holy anointing

oil and a medicine and these are widely

accepted you know as being references to

cannabis by Assyria all disappear and

the Syrian a cyclopædia isn’t that type

of thing as the most likely thing but

you know it’s still not a hundred

percent because it’s not physical

evidence physical evidence trumps

everything you know what I mean and

that’s what’s so nice in the cases where

we can provide actual archaeological

evidence which is difficult to find when

you’re dealing with a plant because

plant material breaks down over time and

is hard to identify unless specific

environmental

actors are present but that sometimes

happens and we do have some wonderful

evidence of cannabis I mentioned the

references in China there’s the evidence

from the bacterium margiana

archaeological complex provided by

viktor sarianidi which some have

challenged as well but serie Nadya

Russian archaeologists this is widely

accepted in Russia claimed to have found

what we’re identifying as soma or Hema

temples on ancient beverage that was a

sacrament of both the the the Vedic

Indians and the investin Persians and he

found that there in those sites evidence

of the preparation of a drink that was

made from cannabis ephedra and in some

cases cannabis ephedra and poppy and

these plants all grow wild around in

this region to this day and this

evidence goes back 4,000 years you know

and we’re talking temple 3 temple sites

and each of these temple sites is about

the size of a football field so these

are massive agent world places you know

that people would have come to from all

around the region to partake of the

sacrament prepared there and also

there’s been recent findings of Scythian

golden cups which provided residue of

cannabis and opium so some sort of

beverage containing those substances was

likely prepared in those cups you know

and this is solid archaeological

evidence and other Scythian sites we

have found the braziers with the heated

rocks that were the cannabis was thrown

on in cannabis seeds burnt and stuff

like that inside of these braziers so we

know that this was you know pretty solid

archaeological evidence cannabis has

been found in a number of viking sites

and you know cannabis fibers been found

in ancient mummies mixed in with their

hair and things like that so we know

that you know that was around from there

as well that’s sort of evidence so that

sort of thing is much more solid than

you know suggestions about agent words

from from forgotten languages you know

that’s certainly true but regardless of

that you know Egyptologists

widely regarded as the the name for

cannabis and Egyptian and we know in

Chinese references to tomb on whom on

wine MA and different things or

different fruits of references to

cannabis and variations of cannabis I’m

still you know Simpson we’re linguistics

are used to get today in China for us as

we’re talking about the same thing

there’s different linguistic

representations for basically different

languages and stuff like that and some

of the words are very related you know

like in regards to indo-european

languages you know and this includes

fran Chandler’s German Sanskrit other

languages well variety of languages are

all find their original in the

indo-european language the indo-european

language was the mother language of that

and we know that these words are all

related because of the aan and a lot of

them like that the the the indo-european

word was kana and

in French we find Chandra with that same

AM and in Hindi we find bong with that

same a had coming from the sense in

German we find huh you know with that

same a n and all these words are related

we know that because they come from the

same source the mother language of these

other languages so before these even

these these different languages

developed and split off from their

indo-european roots cannabis had already

been used by humanity for thousands of

years yeah yeah I know it makes a lot of

sense you know it you go into the the

Knights Templar and you get into

symbolism and secrecy and how it seems

to go hand in hand with the historical

use of cannabis but let’s start with the

basics I mean who who were the Templars

well the Templars were Catholic Knights

that had gone into the Holy Land during

the Crusades period to help pilgrims

that were going from Europe and other

places into the Holy Land to protect

them from the the Islam Islamic sand

Raiders and stuff like that

and so they spent you know a couple

centuries in the Holy Land and the we

know that they have

come into contact with a variety of

Islamic cultures and groups and stuff

like that one of these being a group

known as the assassins or hash machine

assassin and hashish both come from the

same root word hash machine and hash

machine means hashish heater and this

was a name that mainstream Islam used to

refer to a group of heretics with what

they viewed as heretics Islamic heritage

with very controversial beliefs then

they derogatorily called them hashish

eaters and in the mists brought back by

Marco Polo and others there’s a

description of the leader of the hash

machines the old man of the mountain

dosing potential recruits with a hashish

elixir that’s so powerful that it would

knock them out and then they would

reawaken in this beautiful

pleasure-garden where they be nymphs and

streams of wine and other things they

think they’ve gone to paradise and then

he dose them again and said ah now that

you have seen paradise you’ll serve me

so that you can go there and death you

know this is the legend right that’s

come come to the Europe but there may be

some faces of fact in this and we know

that the original Old Man of the

Mountain Hassani Sabbah was friends with

a famous poet who whose name escapes me

right now but he wrote about cat hashish

infused wines himself and so that was

around then and we know that he was all

sorts of Medieval and Renaissance era

Islamic poetry written about hashish so

it was definitely used by the Mystics

there and the idea is that this was

passed on to the Templars and there have

been claims in a number of books that

the Templars had a cannabis infused wine

that was also contained aloe vera mixed

into a palm wine that they referred to

as the elixir of Jerusalem and I was you

know I’m coming across these references

and all sorts of books on aloe vera and

book on medieval medicine but none of

the lists in any source material for it

you know material going back to the

actual time period so

seemed like hearsay no matter how much I

checked it around so I started going

back into actual time period material on

the Templars material from their trials

and the the charges against them that

sort of thing right but translated out

of Latin and I was able to find in there

that in fact the Templars had Saracens

Arabs growing cannabis for them in Spain

and we know that hashish was used in use

in Spain in this time period and the

Arabs were not growers of you know hemp

for for cloth and rope and that type of

thing they use other plants for those

things in the Islamic world and the

Arabs were growers of resin cannabis THC

content cannabis and then we also know

at two of the Templar raids that there

was a considerable amount of cannabis

seized it’s listed on a list of seized

items from the Templar sites in England

and another place is you know we’re

talking about pounds of cannabis and it

seems to be you know raw cannabis not

some sort of fiber because everything

else is listed very specifically these

references just refer to cannabis by the

Latin name can abide and don’t really go

into any detail about it but it does

just seem to be some sort of raw

cannabis and so it seems quite likely

that there may be some basis for these

claims also in the same time period a

pope the Templars ended up being accused

of heresy you know mocking the cross and

stake but for a long period of time they

were in good favor of the Catholic

Church and a pope that was friendly with

the Templars released a book of medicine

while the Templars

were in the Holy Land that contained a

recipe for a cannabis infused one and

also coinciding with the Templars day

and in the Holy Land

a a Mason a builder snow builder was was

in the Holy Land

billard Ahana court and his portfolio of

filler dahana court a which is mostly

Millis tration of building techniques

and statues

from the Holy Land that he brought back

into Europe on the only page of text in

the whole portfolio is for a cannabis

infused wine and this is in the same

time period you know so there’s you know

it’s a pretty interesting material

indicating there may be something to

this claim elixir of Jerusalem and this

is you know very sacred substance now in

regards to the Grail

the Grail is is this myth of the sacred

Cup you know that brings you wealth but

my view is is that it has a lot more to

do with the effects of what comes out of

them Grail and it’s like an initiatory

process and in the the cup that was used

to drink the agent sacrament soma

and there’s been some really good strong

evidence that both soma inhale my played

a really big influence on the

development of the Grail which was

thought to have come out of the Holy

Land the sacred cup used for drinking

that substance was was the Gras golden

cup you know so it’s very interesting

when you when you take a look at some of

this evidence and the way it was used

and the myths about the Grail and how

they overlap into myths about soma and

the Persian hash oisin so you’ve got

you’ve got I mean this is fascinating

you so you’ve got these Templars that

are working for the church and then fall

out of favor and when they’re rated they

are sitting on a bunch of raw cannabis

and it’s theorized I mean why do you

think I mean they had it do you do you

think it was used for mystical purposes

were they summoning you know spirits

like what was going on there I think you

know what we see here the hashish II

they came out of Persia and the the

pre-islamic culture of Persia the

Zoroastrians as I mentioned we’re

ingesting cannabis in infusions cannabis

we know this because it’s written about

in Saurashtra in texts and they were

throat to cannabis is Banga or in the

pallavi name for cannabis mom and so we

know what it is there

there’s clear references to it we know

how it was used was using these cannabis

infusions and we know what would happen

the people that drank these infusions

would be knocked out for a couple of

days and they’d come back saying visions

well in the case of the hash machines

who first originated in Persia we have

the same sort of situation the sacred

drink they drank it the guy knocks out

and in his case the vision is of an

Islamic bent you know he sees the

Virgin’s that are promised to the the

Islamic heroes when they go to paradise

to death you know and that’s his vision

because that’s their cultural context of

it’s basically the same sort of account

and I think that there may be some

evidence that this was passed on to the

Templars and that’s how we find these

references that are as yet undocumented

about this elixir of Jerusalem and one

of the reasons why the Templars would

have had the Saracens growing it for

them in Spain and have that specifically

at their sites now one of the more

controversial things I suggested in my

books this this brings it to this you

know we’re talking about an elixir that

can produce a deathlike state you know

an accounts of both the Sirach reans and

the hash machines it’s you know the

stories say that other people that saw

that people thought that they were dead

as well and in very high doses cannabis

can actually throw you into a stain of

catalepsy where your body stiffens up

like it has rigor mortis and you can

bend the limbs into other positions and

they’ll stay there and in fact cannabis

was the first anesthetic that we know of

the the in China they were performing

complicated operations like in the

century AD with cannabis infused wines

and this goes back now to one of the

main crimes of the Templars was mocking

the cross you know what’s the cross

about it’s about a guy who dies on the

cross and then comes back to life and uh

interestingly a book written in the late

60s on the Passover plot by dr. Hugh

Schofield is about the idea that Jesus

was given some sort of a potion

on the cross you know he’s described as

give him being given a spoiled wine on a

sponge man when he drinks it he says it

is done and just died suddenly and you

know generally when you you are

crucified it’s a slow death what happens

is your arms are spread out as you

muscles relax your your chest cavity

closes it on your lungs and you

suffocate to death right but that’s not

what happens in the story and then it

says in the story afterwards a few days

later his secret servant and that’s the

name they use in the Bible is Nicodemus

secret service Nicodemus and another guy

show up at the tomb of Jesus Jesus with

aloes and bears and go in there to

prepare the body but owls and bears were

never a part of any sort of Jewish

burial

program you know this is all kind of

peculiar right and then Jesus rises from

the dead and so what you have here what

they came across I believe in the the

Middle East is that cannabis and other

substances can produce a deathlike

substance we know that the the Arabs

were aware of this Avicenna and others

wrote about using certain substances

cannabis Mandrake other things opium to

knock people out to perform medical

operations and that sort of thing on

them so they were certainly aware of it

and it was definitely news to Europeans

this type of stuff things really fallen

away from a lot of medical practices and

science and Europe this time most lot of

people have called this period the Dark

Ages in Europe because of the lack of

awareness of science and that sort of

thing and interestingly the first

stories about cannabis that come into

Europe Marco Polo’s account with the

hashish eens and the them thinking

they’ve died and gone to Paradise and

the Decameron another early novel one of

the first things ever written first

novels ever written in Europe Decameron

has a story about an abbot who tricks a

non-believer and a bad what he

considered a bad man into taking

cannabis and that guy as well everybody

thinks he’s dead he goes into a tomb and

then

eventually wakes you know so so these

are the earliest references to cannabis

in Europe at the time I’ll indicate the

same sort of use of cannabis to produce

this death like stupor so what you’re

theorizing is that perhaps Jesus was

given this wine that contained this

highly potent form of cannabis and like

the others

and other things and it could have put

him into this this reduced activity

state put his body into I don’t know

what was the term that he used makes

your body very stiff like well you know

in the 19th century Islamic factors

would amaze Europeans by being buried in

the ground for like a week and they dig

him up and they they come back to life

and a Scottish physician dr. James Braid

of Edinburgh wrote a book trance and

human hibernation in the 19th century

and said that this was likely brought

about by a combination of potent

cannabis extracts and yogic practices so

you know and then you know I can’t take

credit for the idea that that that’s

what Jesus did as I mentioned there’s a

book the Passover plot and also a film

was made about this book as well

nature motion picture and it’s huge

Scofield’s idea he didn’t mention

cannabis specifically but he said some

sort of you know a potion that would

produce that sort of state wow that’s

fascinating you know there was a there

was a chapter in your book Lieber 420

that you called the Guyot a lot Keene

died he said okay this is the 10th

century book Arabic book of magic mm-hmm

and it was translated into Latin in the

13th century by King Alfonso of Spain

and titled the picot tricks it became

one of the founding documents of the

Western magical tradition and in the

picot tricks there’s a recipe for

invoking the guardian of the moon

that involves cannabis and other

residents mix mistake blood being burnt

in the middle of a spring in a cave and

then you would see that once you started

burning all this stuff up it was like a

pound of hashish

you know cannabis resin is what

specifically referred to makes a lot of

cannabis that’s a lot of candidates and

then he would see the deity of the Moon

the guardian of the moon in this pillar

of smoke you know so I mean were these

people using this compound as a type of

offering to invoke these beings well you

know cannabis has a long history of

magic I think that that’s one way of

looking at it another way of looking at

it might be that you take a psychoactive

substance in a large amount and you put

it into a fire and you start staring

into the smoke you’re gonna start seeing

things in the smoke just naturally

you’re gonna start inhaling the smoke as

well

all right the smoke as well it’s gonna

affect your it’s going to affect your

consciousness and and so there’s the

combination of the of the effect of the

substance which causes visual

distortions and also new visual

interpretation of what’s being seen and

the smoke and uh reflections of the

water and the light and all of that

combining to create an illusion in the

smoke you don’t know whether that’s a

product of the subconscious or

unconscious or drugs or an actual the

substance that opens you up enough that

you’re able to see something that you

wouldn’t normally see that is there you

know all these these are all possible

answers to that equation but you know I

kind of think that you know you have to

take into account the effects of these

substances themselves cause long losers

when you’re when you’re dealing with

this type of thing in magic so I mean it

seems like an important element in the

ritual would be you know the choice of

location setting and you know it’s in

you mentioned the pika tricks and you

talked about how it would be placed near

water and that seems to help the

efficacy of the ritual itself like

why place it near waters is it

pareidolia or what’s going on being

seeing faces in rocks and things like

that you know or demons in smoke too

right you know yeah I think that the

light of the fire would play off of off

of the water and reflect back into the

smoke all that type of stuff would be

create a visual effect certainly okay

and then you know you move into the

connection with the pika tricks and John

Dee I’d really like to know more about

you know who John Dee was his importance

to the Queen and that relationship can

you bring that up please yeah yeah it’s

not clear that dr. John Dee had the

Pinkett tricks you know we don’t know

exactly when a witch witch grimoires Dee

have but we do know that grimoires in

England in the 16th century when John

Dee was it was performing his magic did

in fact refer to cannabis and its use

for scrying with magic mirrors which

John dr. John Dee was very into dr. John

Dee was a scientist and a magician who

was in the employ of a queen of Queen

Elizabeth for some time and deed along

with his assistant Edward Kelly were

very into mirrors frying and this is to

be done with crystal balls or with black

opaque mirrors and he’s staring these

mirrors until you started to see a

vision and in the CEFR hace el libres

Aleman us a grimoire from the 16th

century an english grimoire thought to

go back to hebrew influences you know

likely even you know things from the

Holy Land but it’s unclear we don’t have

the earlier documentation of that as

well as the book of magic and invocation

which has been recently republished as

the book of Oberon both of these

documents contain recipes for cannabis

in the in the case of the sepharose ele

Brucella Montes it’s mixed with wormwood

which contains thujone it goes to the

same receptor site as ta

see to be made into anointment and then

you use this ointment and then you’re

staring to a mirror and you’d see demons

and ghosts and things like that that you

can communicate with and in the case of

the book of magic or the book of Omar on

is is now knowing they refer to Devils

trumpet unknown plant but it could well

be a nightshade very potent

hallucinogenic substance you know and

again used in the exact same way and

this is an Indy zone recordings of his

visionary scrying sessions which he

referred to as the actions there’s one

account where they’re they’re talking

about taking a potion and they feel very

drowsy from it you know but then they

begin to see visions and in another kind

of curiously hilarious account we have

Edward Kelly explaining to somebody that

he’s claiming to talk to in a mirror as

Dee writes jot dr. John Dee writes all

this down how that he doesn’t have any

drugs and he shows him an empty empty

apothecary box and says seeing my

apothecary box is empty and the spirit

from the mirror responds back well how

about any ointment do you have any

ointment sand this is what is is is

referred to in sepharose II Al and the

book of magic and you know you don’t

have any ointment either the the deity

is like well how do you expect to talk

to me you know basically when you come

empty-handed

you know what could be happening here is

that Edward Kelly was just you know

trying dr. John Dee to provide some more

drugs so he could some visions by claim

you know because Kelly was known to be a

bit of a Connors and it’s also important

to remember that around the same time

opium was very popular newly discovered

you know like medicine in these areas

right and quite addictive you know which

would make you really want some more of

your Edward Kelly they’ve been using

that for scrying purposes oh wow it’s I

mean it’s really fascinating and it’s

certainly the queen I mean if this guy’s

employed by the Queen I mean there

should be some relevance to the

that he’s discovering and he’s using

these this compound to you know scry and

communicate with these entities or

beings and and gain information I mean

do you think that that was the primary

usage to gain access into these mystical

States so that you could predict the

future or you know what was the

intention yeah you know like a lot of

magic for this that’s crying magic and

that sort of thing which is find

treasure to find information about other

people to communicate with dead

relatives and that sort of thing there’s

a variety of different agendas you know

John Dee is still very popular in the

magical world today the Enochian tablets

which are the product of John Dee’s

scrying sessions with Anna Kelly a whole

language that is this language came out

of these these crying mirrors and people

are still practicing magic and you know

claiming its efficacy this is the system

of magic developed by dr. John Dee and

he was also a great mathematician and

other people said he was you know master

of codes and things like that some of

said he worked as a spy for Queen

Elizabeth as well you know so he was a

pretty interesting cat for sure um you

know and speaking for you personally I

mean have you ever you know used

cannabis in a ritualistic setting to you

know communicate with spirits well I use

cannabis all the time so it’s absolutely

different for me than it is for somebody

you know like those are Astra guy who

never used and all of a sudden does a

potent wine that infusion you know which

would be knock somebody like myself out

even that’s their first experience with

it and I think a lot of the magical

situations and these people weren’t

regular users of cannabis it was like a

rare spice and commodity that they

gotten hold of and was used very

specifically for magical purposes and I

think this is true of a lot of 19th

century of call it use as well right but

I do find that cannabis opens me up to

my subconscious or unconscious mind and

brings in another level of intuition

that I wouldn’t get without it

and you know that that’s the trade-off

between using it once in a while

specifically for magical purposes as

opposed to using it regularly like I

myself do but I would say that you know

I don’t think I could have written my

books and put together a lot of this

this information without the sort of

associations that cannabis can create in

my mind and access to deeper recesses of

my own consciousness which is part of

the collective consciousness as well and

and that in that way it’s a very very

potent Anthea jinn for me yeah I mean

it’s certainly a drug that should be

given a huge amount of respect and

regard for when you’re imbibe being and

using it yeah you know I want I want to

talk you mentioned Shakespeare and yeah

there’s I guess there’s some connection

between Shakespeare and a drug lab and

what’s going on there – specifically

regards to that but in in regards to

Shakespeare he does mention Hampton a

couple of his plays and Midsummer

Night’s Dream he says Punk says of some

guys what happened homespuns are these

and puck himself is also referred to as

Robin Goodfellow

in Shakespeare’s Midsummer Night’s Dream

and Robin Goodfellow was a very popular

English folklore character and you know

had goat legs and horns and things like

that but he was he’s often associated

with Hamptons catchphrase was hemp and

Hampton and he was a prankster who would

sometimes help out the the the women by

helping them break their hamp which

means like getting the fiber separated

from the stock which they would usually

do by like whacking a big pile of stalks

onto a board until they started to break

apart and the fibers break apart Robin

Goodfellow would do it sometimes by

having sex with a woman over top of a

pile of him but the raucous of the sex

would break all the fibers apart so

Shakespeare specifically incorporated

Robin Goodfellow as puck into a

Midsummer Night’s Dream and he

also incorporated Oberon the prince of

the fairies and our king of the fairies

and Oberon is described in age of

literature is sometimes riding on in the

hip and stock you know

so some references there but there was a

couple of South African professors who

had a theory that Shakespeare was a

can’t secret cannabis user and they had

based this on some of his sonnets and

references to a what was the name of the

not a scarlet lung but yeah I fact this

case right now but it was kind of a

veiled reference to like a hidden woman

but he said this was actually more like

a muse and the Greek Spencer a source of

inspiration and based on their theory

they were able to get the Shakespeare

Trust in England to give them pipe

fragments found from the property where

Shakespeare lived and they had these

pipe fragments analyzed and they showed

positive results for Annabeth hung up

their theory somewhat now these were

just pipe pieces from the time period

found on Shakespeare’s property it’s not

like they were this was actually

Shakespeare spike but it could well be

they use the ceramic pipes backbone and

people just some toss him out and is

from the same time period I’m right in

his location you know so somebody would

apparently seem to have been using

cannabis you know it’s very

controversial this stuff but these two

professors are dr. a professor van der

Meer and professor Francis Thackeray

have been stuck by this theory for

twenty years and they’ve written numbers

of articles about it and it’s not to be

lightly poo-pooed there’s a lot to it

there’s a lot to of the analysis and

there’s a lot to the documentation they

present about that so I mean it seems

like there’s an overwhelming amount of

evidence that you’ve collected about the

usage of cannabis throughout human

history and civilization so you know why

is why are we dealing with it being

illegal I mean what happened there I

mean it I think I guess it was William

Randolph Hearst was was that the person

that well Jack Herer the who kind of you

know is a grandfather of the modern him

you know industrial hemp in its

applications really brought that to the

forefront has suggested that Randolph

Hearst who had a newspaper chain can

send some Forest Holdings and they’re

you know at was making newspapers out of

Pulp paper wanted to suppress the hemp

industry you know it’s a allege that one

if your camp can produce as much paper

as four acres of trees over the same

20-year period it’s a much better source

for pulp for paper and that he

suppressed this industry with yellow

journalism propaganda and using racism

against cannabis and this was also what

Herer alleged of the DuPont’s who

recently patented a variety of

petroleum-based products all of which

could be also made from hemp as well

because it’s a very high source of

cellulose you can make plastic and

rubber and other things like that that

you made from petroleum-based products

out of hemp including forms that are

planned just a better plant you know but

at the time it was hard for it to

compete because there’s a vast resources

of all this oil and stuff like that

different situation today and we’ve seen

the results of what the harvesting of

that of oil has done to our planet as we

would steadily move towards a hotter

planet and climate change caused by

man-made fossil fuel damage that’s

really so that’s one idea you know it’s

a lot of it’s just racism I think you

know a big part of it is like Christians

versus the devil’s weed there’s always

been an inherent fear of these types of

things we saw it in the medieval times

with witches we were often accused of

using a variety of psychoactive

substances and their own rituals and

rites you know and this was a big basis

of of what was deemed witchcraft and

demonic behavior and stuff like that and

it’s like it’s like this inherent fear

of it because you know they’re they’re

like it they’re the whole religion is

based on faith but what substances like

cannabis and other entheogenic

substances like ayahuasca peyote or even

these night shades and things like that

they give you a direct experience you’re

not being told about something you

experience something you know and that’s

a real real challenge so I think there

was a lot

of inherent prejudice at play already

you know we know that Henry Anslinger

who kind of is largely responsible for

being in prohibition in the United

States of America used racism as a tool

to bring about prohibition of cannabis

which was brought in by the marijuana

Tax Act in 1937 and you know stoked

fears about white women dancing with

black men and black men holding the

stare of white people under the

influence of cannabis and propaganda

propaganda same thing in Canada we have

Emily Murphy who was which was a name

name used by Canada’s first female judge

or Jane II cannot go which was a name

used by Canada’s first female judge

Emily Murphy

who similarly stoked fears of racism

talking about dark-browed races seducing

the bright route races ie white people

with cannabis and other drugs so racism

was largely used in both countries to

promote prohibit it yeah I mean it seems

like you know with the advent of like

reefer madness and stuff like that then

there there was this push for a fear

campaign of this this drug that could

lead to you know you questioning things

whereas with you know alcohol or

cigarettes or whatever you can buy that

on every street corner in it numbs your

senses it doesn’t get you into this

altered heightened state so you know why

is why would you say there is this sort

of green revolution that’s happening

right now I wouldn’t even call it a

Renaissance that the prohibition of

cannabis has inadvertently created

cannabis mate cannabis a symbol of

freedom the apart leaf is like the piece

on a recognizable symbol of freedom now

and when you can’t go hose what happens

is the pressure builds up you know and I

think it with cannabis they try to kink

that hose and now all this forgotten

history has been just starting to pour

out all the lost knowledge about camp

and its industrial applications just

flooding back out into the world all

this lost knowledge you know that we we

think we’re just discovering all this

medical knowledge about cannabis now but

you take a look at these agent acts and

medieval

tax you know they were treating epilepsy

with cannabis in ancient Assyria

Paracelsus the alchemists had a cannabis

infused wine that was used for the

treatment of epilepsy there’s nothing

new here we’re just rediscovering it you

know and so inadvertently they’ve

they’ve made it this huge symbol that is

a potent force of political change

there’s a whole movement a revolution

happening around this plant and in a

very big way it’s like the natural

movement and the green movement this is

like Earth this is like the mind of Gaia

speaking to humanity through cannabis

and other entheogenic substances man and

it’s offering us away you know and the

choice is we can go the green way or we

can you know we can exploit the tar

sands here in Canada or we can you know

go with Trump and talk about clean coal

beautiful clean coal and the benefits of

big oil and all that type of stuff and

we’ll cook this planet up you know right

now so this generation right now we’re

being offered a pivotal choice for the

future of humanity on this planet and

this herb is a big part of that pivotal

choice mmm I love that I really truly

love that I and I agree I think there is

this surge of awareness that’s that’s

moving in this direction and and

hopefully our generation can wake up to

that it does wake up to that you know it

it seems like I just heard a story about

this woman this old woman in Dallas and

the legislation is so backwards I guess

in Texas was that she she was arrested

for a CBD infused oil that she had for

like back pain or something like that

yeah parents arrested for treating their

children’s epilepsy with cannabis and we

know that cannabis is particularly

effective for epilepsy and epilepsy is a

good point when we’re talking about

agent world stuff as well because

epilepsy was thought to be demonic

possession up until the medieval time

period and we know Syrian references to

cannabis use refer to a cannabis

preparation being used to treat hand of

ghost which is thought to be a reference

to epilepsy they thought it was

temporary demonic possession

possession by a ghost and as well I

mentioned The Alchemist Paracelsus you

know who had a quintessence a cannabis

infused wine that was used for epilepsy

and that’s a miracle to these people

there their children’s are having

hundreds of seizures a year they’re

gonna die from the damage their bodies

are getting from these seizures and then

they cannabis and they stop the seizures

sometimes almost completely and this is

like scientifically proven it’s not like

some bold claim you know something so

you know this is it’s known that this is

happening and parents find this relief

for their children and when they’re

being threatened with jail and in some

cases being put in jail and some being

cases being separated from the children

and you know if that’s not a crime

against humanity I don’t know what is

and but people are waking up to this now

I mean we’re realizing that cannabis is

going to be better for you than drinking

alcohol well cannabis is the tree of

life man this is the apocalypse do you

really think that we are in the

apocalypse right now yeah let’s you know

like I don’t know that it’s exactly you

know I don’t think it’s necessarily the

end of the world sure but yeah I think

it’s you know I think it’s been brought

about by people believing in it so much

I’m not necessarily saying as a prophecy

we got all these evangelicals you know

making political decisions based on some

sort of apocalyptic timeline and doing

things in the Mideast foreign policy

that’s all related to the book of

Revelation you know like trying to put

an embassy in Jerusalem the things like

that yeah I think it is the apocalypse

and that that cannabis is the Tree of

Life

well tell me more about this apocalypse

idea I mean like how you know it does

seem like there is some predictive

programming or something that’s

happening within you know mainstream

culture where we’re being shown images

of the apocalypse and then that is you

know fed to us over and over and over so

you know there is something that it that

is connecting there for for you know

culture so you know how you know how

would we know and you know at what point

do you say okay this is this is where

the apocalypse is occurring how do we

know what it looks like yeah why really

think

you know that that’s really gonna fall

yeah there’s not like a complete answer

for everybody for that because

everybody’s looking at it from different

perspectives you know it’s not like I’m

a Christian you know I don’t believe in

Jesus virgin birth as I mentioned I

don’t believe in the crucifixion I think

that in my apocalypse you know the

resurrection of Jesus is the rediscovery

of the Gnostic literature the things

like the NAG Hammadi texts which have

all these new accounts of Jesus that

depicted Jesus very different from the

Jesus of the New Testament which was put

together by Roman authorities basically

you know the Council of Nicaea and for a

century you know and they suppress all

sorts of documents and decided which

documents would make up a new decimal

come a new testament is basically like

Caesar’s Bible it was a means of

controlling the Roman populace and so

let’s just define Gnosticism for the

people that are listening that might not

know what that is if you cannot if you

can do that you know it’s gonna let’s

see

Gnosticism is a blanket named gnostic

means knowledge okay Gnosticism is a

blanket name for a variety of religious

sects mostly Christian but some Jewish

that were around for the first few

centuries ad up until about the fourth

century when they’re far and completely

suppressed as the Roman Catholic Church

took over and we what we originally knew

about these Gnostic groups was based on

what the Church Fathers Augustine and

other Hippolyta’s and other figures

wrote about them sure and in the age of

text you know and they gave you know

excerpts of some of their texts and why

they were suppressing them a lot of it

had to do with tantric like sex

practices and alternative beliefs you

know like one of but there’s all these

different sects like I said it’s a

blanket name but they had bearing

beliefs so I’m making some

generalizations here but it’s not true

of every gnostic sect you know and one

of the more general beliefs was that

Yahweh the God of the Bible Jehovah if

you want to use that name was actually a

demon

was like a parasite living off of

humanity he tricked them into worship so

the whole thing’s response Nick the

archons yeah and that the serpent who’s

identified with Jesus was actually the

good guy Jesus was you know on side of

Gnosticism right and it’s really hard to

say whether that’s you know if there was

a historical Jesus was he a Gnostic or

was he more you know in line with the

Jewish thing that’s really hard to say

that all this materials goes back to

around the same time there’s not that

much difference in in the oldest Gnostic

texts and the oldest Christian Jackson’s

in decades maybe and that light had

descended into matter and through a

series of incarnations mineral vegetable

animal and then man it started to

progress back out of matter and man was

the transition point of light back to

the kingdom of light from whence it

originated and from which Yahweh the the

demonic force had also split off from

much earlier than this was a part of –

so so let me let me pause you there I’m

sorry – bumpy there but yeah so so are

you saying that you know based on

Gnosticism and you know various sects of

it that there is this understanding that

the the mainstream understanding of

Christianity is that Yahweh or the name

for that is this energy that’s being

stolen from humanity that humanity was

tricked and somewhere like the nog

commodity tax we’re talking about you

know this this serpent that was actually

giving knowledge to Eve and freeing Adam

and Eve from the the what control of the

Gnostic version of the Adam and Eve

story they point out how that you know

when God told that they’d from the tree

of knowledge in the tree of life the

trees that he they would die well they

didn’t die their eyes became opened

right and so they they said that that

God was a quote malicious Gregor who was

trying to trick mankind prevent them

from attaining knowledge like they

attained from the the substance from the

tree of knowledge of good and evil right

and as well other things as well like

a big point of contention between the

gnostic sects and the roman catholic sex

was things like jesus’s crucifixion the

Gnostics referred to the crucifixion and

resurrection as the faith of fools hmm

no one said that mankind was being

tricked by tales of a dead man you know

and well it is call crucifixion you know

as a new fiction that goes out the

window and that Jesus was more like

individual who through purifications

kind of yoga almost practices and

meditation and that sort of thing had

got down to that essence that animates

us all but we could all become Christ by

following that same path of knowledge

you know and we know that the Gnostics

were using a variety of psychoactive

substances because we have agent

references to things like infused wines

and in Gnostic rituals and ritual

burnings of in senses which contained a

wonder refers to and things like that so

it seems pretty clear that they were

were following the entheogenic path yeah

it’s really amazing to me I mean that I

think about this probably more than I

should about Gnosticism and and I I

really do question it I wonder about

this sometimes and you know could it be

that there is you know this floating

realm of archons that are like pulling

and and pushing on negative states

fear-based states and then feeding off

of them somehow I mean it seems like a

really interesting sort of line of

thinking or thought to me yeah well I

think you know we can get into

collective head spaces like you take a

look at the collective beliefs of the

evangelical movement and them as a group

could almost you could almost consider

their influence and group as the

influence of one source because it’s

also on the same page you know and in

the way it affects the wider world you

know so in Gnosticism the final savior

of humanity is actually referred to as

anthropos and that’s like from the same

root we get anthropology from it

basically means the spirit

humanity the idea is that there’s Carl

Jung was very the father of modern

psychology came up with the idea of

collective unconscious he was very into

narcissism was very influenced by the

ideas of it you know and I’d suggest

that his concept of the collective

unconscious was likely influenced by

Gnosticism when the concept of anthropos

because he knew about all this stuff he

actually wrote a text under the name

Vasily IDEs which was the agent gnostic

teacher claiming some connection with

bacilli ods the gnostic teacher but i

think there’s like this collective

aspect to humanity you know it’s like in

the kabbalah as well they were free to

adam kadmon at the center of the Tree of

Life and in the capitalistic world and

Shiva as well is kind of like the

collective aspect of consciousness of

humanity and that that’s you know a big

thing that’s happening right now is that

collective aspect of humanity that we

all are a part of in feed in and out of

is starting to recognize itself and

coming into some sort of form of

self-reflection in the same way that

humans did as individuals thousands of

years ago and that that kind of element

this collective aspect that’s I think as

close as we can come to God you know

Jung said that the collective

unconscious was the same force as

instinct and other animals you know when

another animals like say a sea elephant

the day it’s born it can go fishing or a

deer can stand up and walk around you

know and that shows that some sort of

knowledge is passed down genetically we

have this as well but it’s deeply buried

under the evolutionary expansion of the

brain that happened with humanity our

larger brains the larger area for higher

thinking and memory and the frontal

lobes that type of stuff but we still

have this aspect of instinctual

consciousness and this instinctual

consciousness is an aspect of awareness

that has passed down genetically and you

know shows us what to fear and what to

you know sex instinct that sort of thing

and Jung said because this was

continually passed down certain imagery

and archetypes imprinted on it

recognises that imagery and archetype

because it’s seen over and over again

through various incarnations and when

you talk about something like the book

of Revelation and apocalypse and end of

world type of imagery that’s been a

largely engrained into human

consciousness and it’s like we have this

collective Deathwish because of these

death religions in the death scenario

whether it be jihad or Armageddon or

Kali Yuga it’s been ingrained into the

human consciousness and we’re projecting

that back out what we really need to get

a hold of is get control of this ship

and give it a new myth in a new

direction yeah I mean wouldn’t that be

amazing and you know just to posit this

idea you know if if there is this

resurgence of psychedelics and these

compounds happening and there are more

people finding out about them and shows

like this talking about them and more

people taking them then you know could

it be said that there is some sort of

you know process happening with the

collective unconscious and the a closer

reach to enlightenment perhaps I think

so I think that’s you know that’s that’s

one of the potential futures that we’re

we’re in right now you know it could go

a lot of different ways and it takes

people waking up to take it in that

direction and these substances wake us

up you know I think that you know you

take a look at particularly with the

environmental situation cultures that

have continued the traditional use of of

these sorts of substances whether it be

ayahuasca in South America or foga in

Africa the sacred mushroom take a cacti

Mexico they are more in tune with their

natural environment than Western man

Western man has lost its way you know

and in regards to the environment and

you take sacred mushroom you take a walk

in the forest and it’ll turn that forest

from a commodity into a living breathing

entity you know and that’s the power of

these substances these are the voices of

gaia messengers of gaia mother earth man

and they’re here right now to lead us

back to the garden so I mean so I mean

with with this age of information that

we’re in

and technology and the way social media

is impacting culture and editing culture

what we think how we think I mean how do

you think that interfaces with this

other side because it seems like two

different opposing things like

technology Gaia and can they be

connected technology you know and I

don’t think technology is the problem

it’s the you know it’s it’s doing things

stupidly and wrongly you know just for

good reason corporations that type it’s

up I think if we’re gonna you know find

ways out of the challenge is equippable

for ourselves a large part of that will

be through technology you know and green

technology technology doesn’t have to it

but you know it’s getting back in tune

with with the earth and caring about the

earth that’s really the issue I mean do

you think do you think it could be too

late do you think we were we could be at

a point where you know ecologically

we’re facing a nightmare that you know

this is not reversible

this is something that’s really been

troubling and you know causes me to have

depression I don’t think there’s a

problem on earth right now that we don’t

have potential solutions to but the

potato’s solutions just seems to be lost

to me you know when I take a look at the

government’s and the way that the the

corporations and big of oil have control

and influence over those governments you

know troop is like Trump is like cutting

environmental protection left and right

you know and here in Canada we have a

prime minister who’s preaching green a

greener world but then is expanding the

tar sands one of the most completely

polluting sources of a fossil based fuel

industry in the world the development of

the tar sands it will certainly increase

global warming and stuff like that you

know and so the hopes of implementing

solutions just seems impossible when you

have you know the White House scrubbing

every reference to climate change and

global warming from their from their

their database I mean it’s it’s

intriguing to me that you know

like technology can be both you know our

greatest ally and our worst enemy in

many ways but you know it’s also

interesting that we you know we’re at

such a pinnacle point and you know we

can we can either move with this and

understand it or we can be oppressed by

it and either we’re at this point

ecologically where it may or may not be

too late I mean the the glacial ice caps

are melting and we until that point of

where it’s directly impacting us where

we start to care I mean maybe that is

just too late you know at that point but

yeah you know I think I think we still

have some time you know left I think we

stopped some time left you know and you

know myself I tried to change the world

and swing things the way I wanted to go

I focus on my own personal development

that should the worst happen and I cease

to exist that I’m ready for that

transition and I also you know with like

one of the background agendas with the

retreat that we’ve been building so my

Institute is preparing the

self-sufficient piece of land and

community that can be an ark for the

sacraments and survive as best we can

into these darker days you know so I

take a multi-pronged approach and try to

approach the coming years in a variety

of different ways and from a variety of

different levels that sounds really good

Christmas

I think we’ve discussed pretty much you

know everything that we could discuss

right now and this in this hour we’re a

little bit over the hour is is there

anything that I could have asked you

that I thought I should have asked you

around there there’s you know a million

things to talk about when you know the

mood were talking about cannabis and you

know I think a big thing a lot that a

lot of people find interesting is this

whole element of Christian use of it and

the idea that Jesus you know like in the

oldest of the synoptic Gospels mark

Jesus sends out the Twelve Apostles with

oil to cast out demons and heal the sick

never does he baptized in

but anybody recommends using this will

for casting out demons and healing the

sick and many of the so-called miracles

are of complaints that cannabis is

involved with you know menstruating

complaints vision complaints stiff

joints and things like that and one of

the big points of contention between

what became the Catholic Church and the

gnostic sects was water baptism versus

anointing with oil

the Gnostics said there’s only water in

the baptism but there was fire in the

anointing oil and through MIT we are

initiated to unfading bliss and they

refer to a containing a plant of

kindness that could straighten the

crooked limbs and heal the sick and um

that’s some powerful stuff you know I

think that you know that is one of the

things that you know the more that those

ideas go mainstream it’s something that

actually might appeal to to evangelical

Christians you know who have relatives

who suffer from cancer who have

relatives who suffer from epilepsy and

who are looking for real cures for that

you know as they start to find out about

cannabis they might open up to the the

medical uses and then the idea that

their own Savior may have healed this

way well that’s a revelation brother

that’s a revelation I mean yeah I agree

I think plants are going to dictate you

know how our civilization our species

learns to connect and adapt with you

know the planet that we we call home

Chris this has been a fascinating

conversation my friend where can people

find your work we can working people go

and buy your book follow me on Facebook

boys posted interesting stuff there I

have a blog at cannabis culture calm

I’ve got numbers of documentaries on

YouTube if you search my name in

cannabis and you can find my books on

Amazon and other websites they’re all

over the place guys that’s gonna do it

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