Stephen K. Hayes – Transcript


***UNEDITED DRAFT NOT EDITED****

And is entertaining and mentally topic is frontotemporal I is the human experience is entering the shadows of iga as we explore ninja to with my guest to Mr. Stephen hates Mr. Hayes thank you so much for being here certain honor is great service raise if you could briefly tell our audience who you are and what you do for those that don’t already know that would help to preface this conversation where all in a nutshell in the 1970s I went to Japan to find the last training all of the ninja is whatever terminals are anything else like that to my that I was the first American to become actual disciple of the Grand Master and their and forward several decades i.e. a state of Japan went back and forth from America was a very different martial art from the 1980s the idea of being a protector as opposed to being a champion somebody who fights for his own name of different and I developed the mid-1990s a modern version of the ninja fighting hard by:’ and the promoting that since the mid-1990s and here we are 20 years later I was inducted into the black belt Hall of Fame in 1985 of get the martial art industry Association

lifetime achievement award this July wrapping up a career hitter very interesting and like to get more into implacable magazine calls you a legend one of the most 10 influential martial arts masters all live in the world today if you could just kind of go into more missed story about how you got to Japan and met to me since I think that would be interesting well got to travel back you know almost 40 years to a time when Hudson is it was a relatively young guy in his early 40s his teacher Takamatsu sensei had just died Takamatsu was the guy from the 1800s he witnessed a lot of radical change in Japanese culture went to war and found it in the Hudson the sensei over the air and so he had just finished transmitting all of this ancient cryptic couloir and had died in his 80s I arrived on the scene there were 15 people training in the dojo at that time it was kind of funny to think about when you look at the thousands of thousands of people around the world involved in this that there were 15 people and I was the non-Japanese and I was amazed that they allow me to train they were very welcoming and ended up trading all training was brutal very very rough a rougher than I was used to later I found out I was so honored that they would allow me to train with them but years later my want my Japanese wife was talking with one of the Japanese seniors and Yoshida expressed that and I was honored that they had accepted me he looks at her nieces all uses is that what he thought happened just to what you mean about we thought it was a big guy from America we try all the techniques outlined you get sick of us after about a week and want to go back home and we could continue on with their training the because there was no so I was the is supposed to be discouraged but you know what I learned there was so different from anything I’ve encountered in the US and it just steeped my desire the matter how rough order discouraging it was I was determined that I was in learn this I was going to get this I was going to be the the ninja martial art yeah yeah very interesting in your book not sure which one there think the meaning to me right Tatsumi’s insane

there is no replying you just showed up in Japan is the way before the Internet emails are anything like that I managed to find an address I just sent a letter to my sake up to me in those city and the I sent several letters actually printing three didn’t get any reply but it just I was obsessed I had to do it and I got there and they were very welcoming for the it out for the reasons I just went into and the civil didn’t you get a letter from me as we got three letters from you and the sensor said that he knew you were coming over so there is no need to reply it so I guess I was that obvious to my determination to to get ahead or a news site Digg lady that you know this was going to be an important relationship for the ninja martial art all liminal however know you are very very intriguing about that story white what you think ninja two has survived for so many thousand years with a couple thousand years well that’s a really good question obviously political situation inside in Japan of the 1500s the 1600s you no longer exist this isn’t an underground resistance movement but you know modern times there are different very different but equally perplexing difficult times in a people have so much more than the river and before and yet it seems that in of people are so happy they have the plenty of free time than that certainly the Internet has allowed people to be in touch with each other and yet others there’s a lot of discord and so when we look at what needs it’s a really is it really is not all martial art and science investors one aspect of it really is about how to how to adjust oneself so that we don’t bigger target out of herself people don’t notice us as much as say you would notice that MMA champion are out in somebody like that console as the ages go by different challenges arise for human beings and there’s something that’s

timeless about this agency that causes it to continue to changes form a little bit and be very yeah very valid to study in the different different times since World War II we think we think it is about into that makes so different than other martial arts well I can say pretty quickly you off a lot of in the West the West and when a lot of martial arts are set up relentless model to people go into creating and building better man wins and this guy comes in second place is it all he vows to train harder and you’ll get another chance and Tetsuo is so old that it was back to an older time in older age where you either one there was the second place you were killed or maimed and and it was used as a way to preserve peace to encourage peace the summer I warlords were in a vying with each other for our and the ninja good subtly persuade these people piece was was was was better as so to this day the reliance on rescuing other people and escaping just to defend and then disappear makes ninja zoo of very different animal martial art than one where 28-year-old champion that the height of his physical prowess is temporarily the guided everybody celebrates And this might be a little bit of the controversial question you can elect to not answer it if you want but what was what happened between the boot in can’t system and that the torsion doses to mean there was kind of split where you decided to open the quest centers and move away from how to me since his teachings

what caused that what happened over the years the 1970s until all the early 2000 I wrote a series of books that are still available this day and it may didn’t disappoint famous so there were 15 people studying for very long everybody wanted to run wanted to be Stephen Hayes enough they all wanted to be the guy and with you can be the guy out but I I get the create a role but people wanted to have that old days situation so that was going on there were a lot of people that don’t particular like me trying to criticize the way I handled the early days of publicity and so forth they wanted to be important and so that was one aspect another aspect was that supersensitive was changing the was adjusting the art to fit what Japan was looking for what Europeans are looking for wasn’t the same art that I’ve studied in the 1970s it became, like a abstract art strange funny kind of situations to defend against guy with 26 footballers things it would never happen in real life up the phone to explore but I was not ready to go there I really believed in the way we had trained originally so finally there were some individuals that were so obsessed about really with me in my role the wanted to all causal trouble and so I find I felt I had got my start I had the 30 years of training with Hudson me sensei it was time to take the ninja martial art and really make it appropriate for an American base in turn off thank you so much for answering that what you think is the most esoteric thing that you’ve learned about into two would be in all of your years of training well the way I use the word esoteric it means something that is not obvious it could even be explained to somebody that is not to get it it’s a truth that exists but without certain experiences noticed understand that truth so I would say the most esoteric thing that I’ve learned is the

reality behind why ninja zoo exists the the subtle way in which the training affects changes a person running down going back to my 1970s training that way you can’t stay in this martial art and just get stronger you have to change as a human being as your learning these lessons and the changes were not always easy changes were very heartbreaking sometimes but those were necessary in order to develop a kind of the warrior wisdom the other the path why do you feel like there are mean you don’t really see any ninjas in combat arena such as the UFC and other biting stages Whitey think that is well in the Brazilian jujitsu will his pages after pages of all of these rules Pfc. the same thing you can’t attack the groin you can’t attack hinge joints there are a lot of so-called no holds barred but there’s an extremely small window of applicability and so athletes train the how to that window and overcome somebody else and it’s just not what we’re interested in doing I’m 66 years old you what if I had to fight some 28-year-old who has 50 pounds of muscle on me I still have to win by a submitting myself to these rules and attitude MMA is a this big business that I mean mega big business and so they played to people against each other in the no one steals the other guy’s belt and there about to get off fight on the stage and units all planned the big business this is philosophically at great odds with real ninja zoo where what were trying to do is confuse an opponent into not seeing

us as an opponent can you can you get into some of the differences between torsion and out and pushing count systems well one of the things that is different is the way the people attack gorging God attacking method is kind of a standard from of old age where people had a short limbs in the long body don’t genetically the Japanese of 300 years ago 400 years and so a lot of that all of the attacks are initiated with a right foot moving forward in the right hand striking associate you know the listeners can picture that right foot and right hand going forward at the same time nobody fights like that today nobody fights like that they project the left foot forward and throw a left hand at work right hand and so that was the first thing that we changed we made the attacks or like what an individual is going to experience in the real world of attacks today the second thing that is very different is in ancient Japan ninja would get into fighting situation very rarely and it was almost always an escape how to escape so there were certain spirit training we could say that was just unnecessary in those days everybody knew each day to go out we’ve got the possibility of physical run in today a lot of people don’t really know what violence looks like so we have to teach them what violence looks like how it sounds there are certain things that people say when they trying to confuse a victim and so there’s heavy reliance on verbal combat as well as the more realistic attacking method/is the beginning the beginning of want of what pushing though is how it’s different from the gymkhana method in I saw saw you on the Discovery Channel and your kind of task to go in there and can take guys had offer something which I found very interesting but how would you think the best way to defuse violence would be are is all but one that said very broad

question retard about violence among strangers violence among angry people all violence Hmong people know each other take quite a long time to answer that I think the best thing to say you were restarted and is trying to understand that wears other persons coming from in a somebody could be they got a bad day bad lifetime you out there just malady setting stuff that they shouldn’t and his offensive and we need to put a stop to this world is to the law doesn’t allow us to punish people for saying things that matter what they say is there just talking we can’t stop them from talking that way the lawyers have a black belt in the ninja martial art pushing though were to physically go over and stop somebody from our to be arrested under the understanding were persons coming from so somebody’s you shoot his mouth off the might say something man that your that the part that I’ve hacked off today and get it right to the truck of technology in your truck you go your way apologized to Will That’s Kind of Strange Way a Slightly Humorous Gives the Guy a Way out Save Face My Friend Knows I Just See That Guys Life Is so That Is I Would Say It All the Beginning Understanding Where This Persons Coming from and Then Sitting in Allowing Herself to Fit into That Exchange Is There Is a Personal Way That You Deal with Injuries Can Know That with Training There’s Usually A Lot Of Kind of Wear and Tear Injuries That Come about from the Welder Is Not Really That Much Were Much Safer Than Basketball Is A Lot More People Than Basketball Leagues and We Do Martial Arts I Think Because It’s so Dangerous That When People Are Training Their Only Aware of How Far to Take Something for Themselves or Their Training Partner Numbers with Basketball Are Skateboarding or Something Else It Might Be Injury Prone a Person Has Another Challenge Almanac Make This Rant Palmetto Done This Basket Things That You Distract Away from How Dangerous the Activity Is I Guess We Really Don’t Have That Many Yeah Injuries in Our Training so How Do You Think This This Training Torsion Don’t Can Improve Your Life Will We Start with the Most Scary Possibility of the

Human Being That Is What If I Want to Live There What If This Person Had Their Way Home Gone and There Are All Kinds of Considerations and out Maybe This Person Is Just Too Big How to Life. There May Be It’s Not Worth Fighting How to Live a Myself Away Out Of There without Making a Target for Myself May Be the Talker Is Not the Problem the Problem Is His Cousin over There Is Room Quiet Beaches Can Sneak up behind You and Your They Had It Demands Absolute Complete Attention and I Think That in Our Busy Times in Busy Lives You Know That Feels Good It Feels As and like You Know Many Is the Time Will Be Training along Was Okay Well Were Done for the Night People to Adult Take a Look at the Clock They Can’t Believe That 45 Minutes Is Gone by the That Raptly Involved in the Physical Training the Metal Training Try to Get Better Letting Go of Bad Habits Trying to Pick up a New Good Habit I Think That’s Really the Key to You How This Works Why It Works Why People Continue to Train for Years and Years What More Can You Say and It You Been Training for Many Years of Working You Say Has Been the Most Difficult Lesson That You’ve Had to Learn through Training Well Physically What I Started Back in the 1970s and I Was in My 20s I Was Very Used to Kind of Aggressive Style of Movement Charging Forward and Talking Limbs Out-Of-The-Way Hitting and Not That’s Just Totally the Opposite of the Ninja Way of Winning We Engage the Limbs We We Let the Person Think They’re Waiting for a Half a Second in and That Took Me A Lot Years I Would And Then under a Test or Whenever I Went to Be Thrown a Loop and Go Back to the Old Way to Stand in There Trying to Slow My Way out and These Guys Become Phantoms and That Is I Think That Was Probably the Toughest Thing You and It

Was Good That I Had the Teacher That I Have a to Me Sense Is Very Different Person for Me Very Different Person and That’s Good If You’re Studying with a Person Who’s Exactly like You Build Is Reinforce Your Bad Habits so I Had to Learn New Ways of of Doing Things and Sometimes I Wonder If He Was Kidding Me and Us Can’t Help but I’ll Does along with It and Sure Enough It Turned out the You Know That’s One of the Aspects of Growth That the I Experienced in Their Will I Mean Your You’re Credited with Being a Buddhist and It Seems like Serendipity Is the Major Factor in You You Have to Be the Most Lucky Person in the Universe Just Because You Were Security Advisor for the Dalai Lama How How Did That Occur Out Of That Happened While I Had the Visited with the Belle Isle Alma in 1986 When I Was in India and Just Use As You Say Very Lucky Very Lucky He Had a Brother Who Live Just A Few Hours Away from It Back in the US He Was the First One to Escape to Death in 1951 and I.E. Work Is a Professor at Indiana University so I Went over to See His Brother and You Find out A Few More Things for Man That Very so 8687 the Dalai Lama Came to Indiana to See His Brother Brought All These Notes with Them and Not so I Got to See Him Again There and He Remembered Me As a Very Amazing Memory That He Has Been Remembered Me and the That the 88 I Got to See Him Again 89 I Was in Los Angeles at a Conference Where He Was and the They Announced That He Won the Nobel Peace Prize and Immediately the Sleepy Little California Coastal Campus Just Went Wild Reporters and People Showing up People Didn’t Even Think about the Dalai Lama Taken Seriously Suddenly Were Working and Ends by That I Had Gotten to Know That the Dalai Lama’s Family. Come to Know His Political Staff and so

I Jumped in and Help Them with Some Security Security Does Little to California University Was It Also Duffer with the Times He Walked around the It of the Other End of Security at All Really and the so after That He Was Coming to Ohio and the Staff Had to Buy Then Got to Know Who I Was and Asked If I Would Help with the Ohio Visit and Then It Just One on on from There Whenever He Went to Visit the US Be in the Midwest I Would Organize a Team That Lasted until Old 1999 That’s When the Federal Government Got Involved We Just Couldn’t Keep Doing This with You Volunteer Work and Finally Taught the Federal Government into Supplying State Department Dignitary Protection Team and so by 70 Guys Would Show up but Three Bomb Sniffing Dogs and You Don’t Intelligence Briefings Every Morning at That Point I Can Coming They Were Only Protecting the Dalai Lama and I Mean There Were A Lot Of People at the Events That You Don’t the Security on the so I Continued As a Liaison Officer in Working with the State Department and Even Though Played the Role of the MC a Couple of Times to Introduce Him to the to the Crowd As the Years Went by in a Tool to Be Putting Are Now They’ve Guys One Third by Age Yeah Wow Wow Very Very Interesting This Phase I Do Really Appreciate Your Time and You Have To Be One of the Most Interesting People That I’ve Got a Chance to Read about Here about Is There Is Are Placed in That People Can Find out More about Your Work the Best Place Probably Is the Web Stephen K Hayes Is Right That out like One Giant Word S TEP AGN IES Stephen K Hayes.com and That Gives Them a Way to Find out about My Training School Here in Ohio Find out about Our Route We Have a Massive Library of Techniques That Are Online Now People Can Subscribe in the Basic Lessons to Intermediate Lessons to Some Pretty Exotic Techniques Some of the Weapons Some of the Psychic You Could Call It Psychic Type of the Work That We Do All Available Online Cysteamine K Hayes.com Would Be the Best Place to Go Just to Check It out Perfect We Will Make Sure That We Link That in the Comment Section below Mr. Hayes Thank You so Much for Being Here This Is the Human Experience My Name Is Xavier We’re Going to Get out Here Thank You so Much for Listening

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