XAVIER: Welcome to the human experience podcast, my name is Xavier, and today we have the honor to speak to the great Robert Bruce. Author of Astral Dynamics, who has had a presence on the Internet for a long time. Mr. Bruce thank you for so much for doing this podcast, welcome.
ROBERT BRUCE: Nice to be here mate.
XAVIER: There is a litany of things that I really want to go over with you, but let’s start with something simple. Let’s start with what’s your story? How did you get into this? How did you figure out that you were going to be a astral projector?
ROBERT BRUCE: Well I started after projecting about the age of three or four, years of age. My first experience was I had just dispersed all over, and floated out of my body.
XAVIER: Wow that’s a early. You started when you’re three years old.
ROBERT BRUCE: I think three maybe four, but no older than that. Now I had a, keep in mind here I have an excellent recall of my childhood. My memories go back into my mother’s womb, and just before I actually joined with my mother. Just before I was conceived. So the memories of my childhood are quite strong. Before I asked to astral projected the first time, where I floated out of my body, I had an experience a few weeks earlier probably about two weeks earlier. This was an experience that I’ve had many many times, and I had many times also up until about my mid 20s, to late 20s.
Where I would find myself paralyzed with the type of vibration that is similar to actual projection vibration, which are reasonably comfortable once you get used to them, but this was a vibration that is like … Imagine a vibration which would give you the feeling like, imagine if you chomped into a big piece of aluminum foil. You know that cold shiver you get up and down your spine if you imagine it, it’s sort of like chomping into that or cardboard. It’s a very unpleasant feeling, and I was always paralyzed. I was only a little lad, it was very fear inducing. Just before I had my first astral projection, I had one of these experiences there, and it was always the same. I’m paralyzed, this icky vibration going through me, sort of high-pitched vibration. There was a light coming from above my right shoulder always.
This time I managed to turn around, without physically moving, I now know I was moving within my physical body. It’s my second body or my earthly body that is moving you could call it, and I turned around, it’s like moving through mud, I looked at my shoulder and looked at the light where all this was coming. What I saw there was a large ET, of the tall gray variety. Which had a body like a praying mantis. With the big triangular head, and two big eyes. Do you know [Willie Streenberg 00:04:03] preschool comminion?
ROBERT BRUCE: On the cover they got the head of this big triangular head of an ET with big eyes. That was the head-
XAVIER: So you were three years old when this happened?
ROBERT BRUCE: I was about three and a half years of age when this happened, and I looked at this being and this ball of light, which was about the size of a soccer ball, glowing and vibrating. I looked at it just for a couple of seconds, and the being looked at me and noticed I was looking at him. Reached out and tweaked the ball of light, and I was out like a light.
ROBERT BRUCE: About two weeks later I had my first astral projection. Were just floated out of my body and I floated feet first like I was still in bed, through my bedroom, down the hallway, down the stairs, and through the house. Then I came back to my body and I was a bit scared, but not that scared because I wasn’t allowed to be scared of it, and I had another one. Then I had several astral projections a night, every night, for years. Many weeks after that. That’s where started it.
XAVIER: Let’s rewind just a little bit. The praying mantis that you saw, was it affecting you? Is it the reason that I started projecting to begin with customer did you ever discover that?
ROBERT BRUCE: Looking back on it now logically, it altered me in some way. I think many people in our world have a similar experiences where they’re altered. I don’t know why, because it gave me the abilities, that became a pretty clairvoyant and awakened a lot of my psychic abilities.
DR. G: Do you think there was a transference of some sort of ability, or clairvoyants from this entity perhaps?
ROBERT BRUCE: Logically I think the vibration that I experienced was something like a high-tech form of hemi-sync
ROBERT BRUCE: Many years later, several years ago, was my first time I went to the Monroe Institute in Virginia.
XAVIER: Okay, so you do have extras with the Monroe Institute then.
ROBERT BRUCE: Yeah, I visited there are likely gave a workshop there once.
XAVIER: Oh. I know Mr. Monroe, did he pass? What was the time frame, was he gone? Or was he still at the Institute?
ROBERT BRUCE: Yeah, this was a couple years after (Old Sir) actually died, but I still met him there. His spirit was very strong there. His spirit visited me the night before, which was an interesting story. So when I visited there with some friends, and another author [Maureen Coralville 00:07:22] who wrote the book suddenly psychic which is a very good book. She’s one of their senior outreach trainers there and she gave me a mini Gateway workshop for about four hours. Meet a few friends went over there, and I’ve never tried hemi-sync before because I’ve never needed it, but as soon as the frequency started playing, the binaural beats in the ears, I recognize the type and what it was, and what it was doing to my brain. As being related to the one experienced when I was a kid.
XAVIER: So the hemi-sync, you were three or four, and you start projecting. You begin to experience projecting. You’ve always felt this light above your shoulder, you look over and it’s this praying mantis being. You suspect that maybe it could’ve altered you in some way, and you recognize the hemi-sync itself was somewhat correlated?
DR. G: Did it reactivated, or just kind of reach are these events you think?
ROBERT BRUCE: No I always remember those events. It didn’t trigger anything, but I recognize the effect it was having on my brain, the hemi-sync Binaural sounds … The frequencies they used, I think it started off when I was 10, but I recognize the effect it had on my brain because it gave me this awing sensation inside. It pulled me into an altered state very quickly. Mind you I could do that manually, but I recognize the effect it was having on me. As being related to, not the same as, I’m not saying the ET was using [pluckers 10 00:09:14] hemi-sync. I think what he was using is very sophisticated in comparison. There were similarities there in the feeling it gave me. It’s only logical that I say I think they altered me, because of the power. I started having astral projection after that, and many other things appointed to that alteration there.
DR. G: Did the astral projection frequency, or intensity, become altered after the sessions with these Binaural beats, or after your time here at the Monroe Institute? Like there was before. Was there any kind of distinction?
ROBERT BRUCE: It made no difference to me afterwards, I don’t think. Possibly because I’ve used them a fair number of times now. An awful lot of them are quite handy … Well it’s just nice to play with gadgets.
XAVIER: Do you still have contact with Jesus or terrestrial beings? What is the purpose? What’s going on there?
ROBERT BRUCE: I don’t know, it’s intermittent. That was my first experience, my next experience with ET’s, you could say then UFOs, was about 18 years old and at the time I was in the [merchantile 00:10:34] Marines in March of 90, nonmilitary cargo ship. We were on the top of Australia near Darwin, which is the top left corner there. I was in company with the third mate, and some of and other people there as well. It was about 2 o’clock in the morning we saw this gigantic spaceship come down. It looked like an asteroid shape, like a watermelon shape. You could see was metal had pockmarks like little crater holes in it. It was the size of an aircraft carrier, absolutely huge. It was coming down, because we were out there on the Wilmington bridge, and we saw it very clearly. It was decelerating. It had this brilliant blue green or aira around it. It came down and it hit the ocean … It touched the ocean about half a mile off of port [Paula 00:11:42], and it just slipped into the ocean with hardly a splash.
Then there was a bright light coming from under the ocean. It took off very very fast. You could see it moving underwater. Probably moving hundreds of miles an hour. That was about 2 o’clock in the morning. A few hours later we were tying up in the port of Darwin, but it was just at the break of dawn then. I remember looking out to sea and I saw another one come down in the distance much further away, because we traveled 100 miles it said. It was the same shape, I can see the same blue-green aura around it, and it came down at roughly the same angle. We must’ve just been at the right place at the right time. The advice that I got from the third mate was, “We see these things all the time out here, but don’t tell anybody they’ll just laugh at you.” Which is true. I told a couple of people they start smiling, “Have you taken your meds lately?” Typically jerk reaction-
XAVIER: They thought you were crazy. Right, Right.
DR. G: I’m sure you’re familiar with Graham Hancock and some of his works as far as his theories. In the book supernatural he’s talking about some of the endogenous DMT release could be responsible for some of these alien encounters that some these people have. Do you feel like there’s any kind of neurotransmitter relation here as far as an endogenous release of chemicals that is having an influence on this astral projection realm? Or perhaps any other states of consciousness are being encountered?
ROBERT BRUCE: What do you mean endogenous releasing chemicals?
DR. G: As far as … I know that Graham Hancock, in his book, he mentioned that he thinks that the the natural extrusion of the [penial 00:13:41] gland, the [Diametrotriptamine 00:13:44] or the DMT release.
XAVIER: Neurologically, what’s happening in your brain when you’re projecting? Do you think that perhaps there’s some sort of DMT, the Spirit molecule, do you think that there’s some sort of release is happening in your [penial 00:14:02] gland that can stimulate this phenomena?
ROBERT BRUCE: I could speculate that that’s possible because when you go into altered states, there are some major activity occurring electrically and biochemically in your brain. So it’s pretty likely.
XAVIER: Right. Will Dr. G my cohost is actually a doctor, so we want to know how does this affect in a physical way? So you started this journey very very early. It’s kind of surprise that you didn’t lose your mind. You’re projecting into this other realm of existence. You’re having these encounters. Normal people, “normal” people, don’t have this experience. So how did you learn to control this? How did you learn to –
DR. G: Work within that space perhaps, almost innately.
ROBERT BRUCE: Given my work on the subject, I mean my in-depth exploration of the astral projection exit and reentry of the body. I would have to say most people do not have the memory of this happening. The key to astral projection which is something that everybody does whenever they sleep, the astral body exits as the [map the course 00:15:37] . Every human being does this, every animal on the planet also does this. Dogs, cats, hamsters, horses I’ve observed clairvoyant … Leaving the bodies when they fall asleep. Now logically I think every living thing astral projects. it’s an incredibly natural thing its not linked to human beings at all.
XAVIER: I know in astral dynamics you talk about the mind split phenomena. I think, your work is very original, I think you talk about, and correct me if I’m mistaken here, you talk about how there’s I download the astral body projects out and your physical body, you’re downloading the memories of the projection. Is that correct?
ROBERT BRUCE: Yes, yes it is. I can explain that. When you have an actual projection, you do not leave your physical body at all. You generate a copy of yourself, and then you [exteriorise 00:16:56] this, you project that copy of yourself like the ram in the computer that is projected out in an energy form. It is that form that operates outside of your body.
It gathers its experience, memories, independently of the physical body mind. Keeping in mind the physical body mind can be awake and functioning, albeit paralyzed, at the same time. Your dream line can also be active. You could be having a lucid dream at the same time. The basis of the mine split is there is one, two, three copies of you existing and experiencing simultaneously.
The big question is of course, if you were … How does the brain deal with multiple memory stories? Naturally it doesn’t. If the physical body mind is aware or thinking at the time there, it’s usually those memories that get retained. Second to that are pre-memories, which are easier to recall. So if you had a brain [inaudible 00:18:09] they maybe recall. Down at the bottom of our list is as astral projection. Whereby you will remember that because normally we don’t recall those. Often you will get a mixture of physical body memory, maybe remembering being paralyzed in your bed, or caught some vibrations are that scared you and the fears kept you awake. Fear stimulates a powerful memory, that’s important, understanding fear can empower the memory. While you’re doing that your astral body is at its world and you can be dreaming. At the end of it you wake up, you might have bits and pieces of all three experiences tacked together in a random order. So you remember a bit about being paralyzed, you also remember about walking through your kitchen, and then you also remember having a drink. There sort of tacked together but these aren’t linear, but they’re tacked together for one linear memory you have. That doesn’t make sense, and it usually doesn’t.
XAVIER: I think national dynamics you talk about how events of the astral … Do they happen first on the astral? Do things exist energetically first, and then filter down the more dense, physical realms? Is it a top-down phenomenon?
DR. G: Or is it like a –
ROBERT BRUCE: Yeah that is the traditional theory on that. My observation say that appears to be correct, but I’m not totally. I don’t have enough personal experience on that yet to say for sure they flow down, but it does appear to I have to say.
XAVIER: I mean I … Go ahead Dr. G.
DR. G: Sorry about that, the thing that you mentioned earlier about the memory, what I found fascinating was I was reading about Tom Campbell who was at the Monroe Institute. I don’t know if he was the same time as you, but he –
ROBERT BRUCE: No he wasn’t, I know Tom.
DR. G: Oh wow, it’s a small world in astral plane.
ROBERT BRUCE: I’ve done a bunch of interviews with him.
DR. G: I haven’t read my big toe. I think it’s when he talks about, I think, the major work that he had where he talks about the different observer effects with the precognition and the big computer, and just the framework of how he sees reality. Which I found fascinating. There was an interview, I think was related to one of the Daniel [pinchback 00:20:45] books that was out, he mentioned this guy named Ian Wilson who was talking about the observer one in the lucid dream, and the observer to that’s scaled outside of time how, and how he could manipulate … Not manipulate but he could, through this dialation out affect series. Of this series of observers time beware of time in a grander sense, and recognize the he dreamed future events as, and that sort of encountered in his waking life. Have you had any experiences in the actual playing where you have seen pre-recognized events, and manipulated them in a sense where you could see them in waking life? Or had this dream déjà vu experience as he describes it.
ROBERT BRUCE: Yeah, many times. The issue would try to change something there is when you’re observing something like that, a future event like a clairvoyant, or in the astral. You can have clairvoyant visions in the astral while you’re having a projection. If you’re having an astral projection while you have a vision vision instead of seeing the future event will be taking part of it.
So it’s like you’re there, you could be just an observer inside of the stage of them that you’re seeing. That can often make it very difficult to understand what’s happening but try to change something in a vision like that while you’re having a vision you’re normally pull you out of the state you need to be. It’ll ruin the experience as is or make an effort.
People often try to change something if something serious happening, they might be single opponent in a dangerous situation for example, or they think they’re about to see something happen like a car accident or something like that. If you’re in us delicate state if you think of in something like that you will find the causes a tension to appear inside of you. You tense up and it throws out of the state. I haven’t tried to change anything in this situation, or that what I’ve seen. Mainly because I’ve learned the wisdom of not doing so.
XAVIER: Could you expand on that a little bit as far as what you mean by that?
ROBERT BRUCE: Sometimes apparently bad things happen for good purposes. The outcome of a bad experience can be gross, and loony. All through your life, hundreds of incidences, I could see some of the bad things that happened to me. I could see the outcome. I’m looking back on my life now and I’ve had some pretty bad things happen to me. More than most other the people. In multiples, just for starters firstborn son Jeremy was killed at the age of seven from this life. He died in my arms. He was buried alive in a sand slide at a Christmas party. I pulled him out just a little bit too late, I mean that’ll do it to you.
DR. G: Did you witness this in the astral plane beforehand?
ROBERT BRUCE: No, I didn’t. I’d had some dreams about something like that were what had happened, at the time and maybe sometime after that, you would do anything to change that. In years to come I realize what was surviving that, growing from that, I would developed the great strength and resilience inside by surviving that. Then worse things happen to me further down the track, if it hadn’t been for the first experience like that I never would’ve survived the next one. No in the world. Full-blown demonic possession, nobody survives that under their own steam, but the strength the first experience gave me allowed me, gave me the strength to survive that. That was a period in my life for several weeks, I don’t know if you’ve read the book on this the practical psychic self-defense handbook, is a short version of the story and there. That led me into another direction as well as studying astral projection, energy work, healing, things like that. I also started working in demonology possession.
DR. G: That’s what wanted to ask you about.
XAVIER: Mr. Bruce let say that actually let’s come back to that, because I’m very interested in the psychic self-defense. My thing right now, my quandary is, we all project. Humans project, animals reject, where doing it, these are doing it, so everyone’s doing it. What is the purpose of this? When you say that the universe is kind of a computer, an algorithm. So what is the point, why am I projecting one asleep? What is the point of doing this? Is there something? IS there learning? What’s happening? What’s happening on our planet? We’ve heard these events … If you look at the planet right now there’s so much change happening, constantly. We’re being barraged. People are waking up. There is this global Ascension process happening. How does your astral work … Where are we as a civilization? Where are we as a species? What’s our role right now?
ROBERT BRUCE: Your questions seem to have involving intelligence.
XAVIER: I’ve got the foremost astral projector on my podcast, I’m pretty happy right now.
ROBERT BRUCE: I’ll make some sense out of that one.
DR. G: Get my pie chart out here.
ROBERT BRUCE: The natural purpose of that I think, it comes down to what we are. The natural purpose of actual astral projection I think eludes to spiritual potential. In a natural sense. To make any sense of this it doesn’t help if you say,”humans do this because we’re so special. Look at me, how special I am. I’m special”. Dogs do it, cats do it, dogs and cats … Animals also have an afterlife the parallels that of humans. There’s great similarities.
Humans are much more complicated in trying to study the afterlife experience, among humans, which can take several hundred years according to the Tibetan Buddhists and they seem to be correct. It takes a long time. Or as an animal like a hamster will have an afterlife experience that may last a day or two. A dog or a cat lived who has with humans to a ripe old age may have enough like experience that lasts a year, maybe two. A cat maybe even in a year or two as well.
XAVIER: You’re talking nonlinear time.
ROBERT BRUCE: This is quite linear, in the experience. It does appear to be nonlinear for the person that had died, for the animal who died. As an observer going into the spirit world observing this right when I began. You can see the progress of the animal is a human being.
DR. G: The ascension so to speak of it. and
ROBERT BRUCE: Yeah in a way. I’ve been doing this for decades. Probably 40 yard years I’ve been studying the afterlife. It’s a big subject it takes a lot of time.
ROBERT BRUCE: Following somebody through the afterlife including my parents, various animals and things like that, or front group to study. Including a few famous people like Francis Diana, Crocodile Hunter, a couple of famous musicians –
XAVIER: Is there a specific process that happens when the physical body dies? You mentioned the Tibetan Buddhists, they talked about, Dr. G do you remember what it was called? Is there some sort of –
DR. G: Like pass the (Bardo) so to speak, or the process of that. The book of the death and dying as far as joining the oncology of so many –
ROBERT BRUCE: The process is there. It’s like walking into a gym. You’ve got all these machines and things, the steam room, swimming pools, and all kinds of stuff there. What you do in the gym depends on what you want to do, or what your intention is. When a human being dies, the afterlife, as you will find, is large is composed of what you take with you. Your beliefs, expectations, and things. It varies for everybody.
You find some commonalities, but they’re rare among experience, because you know there’s always exceptions. The questions fine, the questions about theme. It’s like an afterlife theme park. The Buddhas will find something different, the Hindus will find something, all those different religions will find a theme park related their beliefs. If you have no beliefs then it’s might be different. There are some commonalities, very very few.
The most important one to understand is the anomalies that occur in the afterlife. These anomalies also occurred during astral projection, lucid framing, and they also occur to people that are extra me tired. If you miss a couple days sleep will start getting some anomalies, if you astral project. If you take drugs you can also get anomalies. You’ll see things moving.
XAVIER: What do you mean anomaly? Like your perception has maybe widened a bit so you start to see astral planes.
ROBERT BRUCE: No I mean anomaly. For example if you’re in a lucid dream, or after realm, and your I try to write something down the pen. Where somebody gives you a contract to sign, with maybe pre-cognitive, I’ve had that as well. You try to sign your name or anything, guaranteed your pen will start running out of ink after the first two or three letters. You run your pen just around that, you start banging it, it gets messy. It won’t work. If you are using a pencil the lead will break, oyu just will be able to finish it. If you’re looking at a piece of text it looks quite normal, you start reading it you’ll get half a sentence into it and it mixes up. I call astral dyslexia. If you astral projected in a real-time zone, you’ll come out until your living room, and you’ll find that your kitchen is on the other side of the room from what you remember it, and the door’s in the wrong place.
DR. G: What you attribute that to? I’m sorry, what you attribute that to as far as these anomalies.
ROBERT BRUCE: I’m getting to it. Things change. If you are having a mental projection, which is the lucid dream is a projection of the mental body. The dreaming is a facility of the mental body. If you are an experienced, and you don’t know your real and you sitting down. Maybe having a beer and a bagel. You take a bite of your bagel, little taste quite normal, you have some of your beer. If you look away for a second, your beer is full again. Your bagel is complete again, it’s whole.
The same thing happens in the afterlife. Check your beer down look away for a second, it’s full again. This is the afterlife there’s free beer and bagels, how bad could it be? I’m playing with you guys, but it’s true.
DR. G: The gluten-free community is not can be to pleasant about that.
ROBERT BRUCE: But back to astral projection, and this all ties together. Astral projection you could say is like, it’s your spirit essence coming out of your body. It is an energy, a part of you, coming out of you. You definitely don’t revisit the body while you still live. Possible exception, temporary exception, being a near-death experience. Where you physically die for short time and then come back. Everything does that. If you think about it in that context, you go beyond the, “Oh we do that because were special. Were human beings. God loves us. We got this magical purpose in life. “No you don’t. You are an animal.”
XAVIER: The common conception is that your consciousness transfers into this energy body, and you leave. What you’re saying is that doesn’t happen. That your duplicating–
ROBERT BRUCE: Yes it does to an extent. It doesn’t it doesn’t
XAVIER: So your inner body, but you’re not in the body. Earlier you said something about duplicating yourself, right? So I’m a little bit confused. I’ve had–
ROBERT BRUCE: It is inherently confusing topic but you’re dealing with multiple aspects of the one.
XAVIER: Right. Just moving forward here, we’ve spent a bit of time on this. I really respect new energy weighs a lot. when you first put out astral dynamics I got it right away. I was very much into the rubber Monroe, he’s one of my heroes. Along with you, you’re one of my heroes as well. When I read, I always kind of had a problem with the visualization and the way that people explain the. It was like you said, inherently confusing. When I started reading astral dynamics and using new energy weighs. It affected my energy body immediately. I felt it immediately. How did you come up with this? Where’d you learn this question mark
ROBERT BRUCE: I discovered that … You could say it was given to me by my higher self. At the time I discovered that, going back, wow, I was 39. I think was 39 that time, 40. So it’s about 29 years ago, I’m 59 now. I was just living alone, and I used to meditate a lot. One day I was sitting down meditating by the fire, and I’m just playing around. You know [twip 00:36:36] that see what happens, fall on this see what happens, exploring. I’ve been thinking and theorizing which I do a lot. Thinking about different ways to stimulate the energy body. At the time I was using visualization by energy work.
I didn’t realize that I was connecting [kinesthetically 00:36:58] with my touch feeling. I was using body awareness without realizing. The blue ball of energy moving to my arm I also feel that. That’s why worked. Unfortunately 75% of people don’t do that. They just visualize what that they’re seeing something, but they don’t connect the physical body so the energy doesn’t work well for them. I just had a theory that popped into my head, I know I was being guided, and little bits like breadcrumbs being dropped into me, of realization to give me ideas.
I realized, if you got major chakras, I thought to myself logically, you’ve also got lesser chakras theoretically. The likely place a look for them and be in the joints. I started on my big toe, on my left foot I think it was. Thinking I know according to reflexology and acupuncture the feet very very important. So it’s likely there’d be something there. So just started playing around, feeling my big toe, trying this in trying that. Then I started brushing it, like a brushing action on there. After a few seconds it would move up and started to buzz and throb, and I thought, “Oh what’s this?”
So I kept moving doing more of the same, and started working on the other big toe, and other parts, and then the whole foot, and then both my feet were like, “Wow.” It’s almost painful. The energy that’s pouring through them. Then from there I want to start exploring my body, and this and that, and I tried the same methods on my chakras. They activated very very strongly. That’s how I did it. You could say accidental, but I know now because it recognizes the symptoms, that I was guided.
Something was give me a little nudge here and there to give this new type of energy. I did that for couple of hours and then I was going to go to bed. Of sitting in my office bedroom a my computer with the lamp on. I was clearly wearing white, and I was thinking about this because I knew was really important to the world. You know I’ve discovered something. It’s like winning the lotto and you keep checking and rechecking your numbers. “Have I really want this?” It was kind of like that, because in my mindset discovering this was equal to winning the lottery.
Then there was a flashlight my bedroom and the being appeared to me. It was a large, you might’ve read the story about this, it was a dark skinned man in a bright orange rope with a huge push of fuzzy hair. I didn’t know who was time I was clueless. My mother explained to me the next day because she recognized my description. It was [Sapios 00:39:59] son [Bubba 00:40:00], the Indian guru, who died a couple of years ago. I was thinking about this, and he telepathically spoke to me saying, “Now you’ve got it, what you going to do with it?” it was was instant denial in my mind, years of work in trying to make sense of this and do something with it. What do you do with it? I said, “Okay I’ll do it.” He was there for like 30 seconds and then he vanished. I don’t know why this happened, what things would have happened. I just do. A motto mine, regarding to life in mysticism is, keep smiling pretend you know what you’re doing.
XAVIER: Pretend you know what you’re doing.
ROBERT BRUCE: Keep smiling, don’t blow it. That works because a lot of these things that happen to us are mysterious. We don’t have the explanations, we can’t say, “oh, that’s this, and this should come next.” That’s a very human thinking. We probably understand, the world of spiritual matters, we probably understand less than 1%. Me I probably understand 5%.
DR. G: It’s very Socratic of us.
ROBERT BRUCE: Very. It’s also exciting because is a huge amount of stuff to explore out there. There is a trap. Have you ever heard of a term called the middle plateau?
XAVIER: No I don’t think I’ve had.
ROBERT BRUCE: The middle plateau is supposed to be … This comes from Buddhism, or [00:41:44] one of those. The middle plateau is an area, once you start to get out there and you start getting spiritual interests, and spiritual abilities. You hit something called the middle plateau it’s dimensional area to cling to. The way it’s explained its almost like your astral projecting onto. This level is full of mischievous and deceiving spirits, and all kinds of demons and stuff running around trying to misinform us, and disinform us, lead us this way, leaders that way. Though tell you mixtures of truth and lies to mislead you basically. You could spend your whole life being in this area and think you’ve really got somewhere. The trick of this, like I explained, is to ignore all this. The saying goes [niti niti 00:42:40], not this and not that. Keep going keep meditating keep doing your work until you come out of this area. Then you’ll be standing in the light surrounded by Masters, [inaudible 00:42:52], they do exist. What people don’t understand about that is we live in the middle plateau. This is the world we live in.
DR. G: Intrinsically right now you’re saying.
ROBERT BRUCE: Exactly. There are hundreds of religions and belief systems of the, and this and that. You literally cannot tell the wood from the trees. You can’t tell what is truth, what is not truth, what is delusion, what is this. You can’t tell. It’s like telling which is the true religion.
DR. G: Would you say this is analogous to the state of the third chakra, where we’re in this social element. We’re above the animalistic secondary primary chakras, and we’re just above getting to the fourth higher… Becoming aware of our higher self, but we’re stuck in this realm of confusion almost.
ROBERT BRUCE: Yep that’s a good analogy to. It is a realm of confusion, and it’s designed that way. It’s designed as a failsafe to stop you. When multiple start to open up the third eye, and get some psychic abilities. There exposed this, and it’s usually not very long before something grabs their attention and their off this way. A couple of weeks later they’ve got a website, and they’re overcharging forgiving readings and making a career out of it.
DR. G: This is the stuff I’m actually dying to pick your brain about, because recently I’ve kind of jumped to the this abyss. Reading some [Julian Navoa 00:44:20], some of the path of awakening works, and Kim had recently [inaudible 00:44:25] a meditation retreat, and looking up on this. They mentioned that some of the longer retreats that you reach this point … Where the whole point being centered, and reaching certain points where you’re going to be in contact with perhaps entities or beings that will confront you ideas and lead you astray off that path, and you have to be in your seat of self so to speak. Part of the path of awakening that a lot of these 1920s like Italian fascists were talking about, he mentions the third part of the awakening that I can’t quite grasp. They see that you can’t noted to you’ve gone through it.
I think it’s an is his introduction to magic book that he wrote, in this section their were talking about it resonates with what your talking about right now. As far as there is a section on the ghost realm, so to speak. What they say is you’re projecting out your nonsense. You will start seeing beings and entities as is projections of your internal symbols, and getting lost in that, and trying to rise above that. Is that tied in or do you feel like there is an actual hyper dimensional realm? That there are actually it she’s lying for our energy. What you make of this space that were trying to that’s so confusing. It has an almost a [realisti 00:45:44]c to it.
ROBERT BRUCE: That makes sense. Whatever they’re competing for, there are competing for our attention, our energy. Some of are competing to form attachments, and even posessions where they can attach to us and experience life through us. There’s multiple reasons. There’s lots and lots of different entities and beings involved out there. It’s designed this way you could say the creator, whatever you want to say or it’s evolved this way because it’s only when you get it and you have to learn this through to personal experience. You find a way to make sense out of the goal. This was explained to me, I think I was a bit of a slow learner, about the age of 36 and Master materialized me and expended to me. He explained to me what he called the way of the master, and there is only one way and after I tell you, you realize it’s the only possible way. The way to proceed is through the steps of your own personal experience.
Every holy book and script in the world tells you this in someway shape or form, through your personal experience. If you look at that, this is applying scientific method to spirituality.
What he explained to me how to do this, he said, “make up a list of all the things that you believe in.” After the experience of course he meant. Of course page of the page of stuff appeared and there’s no end to it at all. He said, “Now make another list of all things that you believe in, linking to spirituality and that here that you have actually experienced. Preferably once.”
I had a list, very very short list, of about nine things on there. Nine things alike astral projection is real because I’ve done it thousands of times. Healing energy is real because I’ve given and received powerful healing, miracle cures. A short list like angels are real because I’ve met a few. Demons are also real because I’ve met some of them. Very short list. I to throw everything else out, which was psychologically uncomfortable, but he explained to me how to do that because I’m throwing everything away, pocket this. Spirit guides aren’t allowed, don’t have enough evidence, personal experience, this and that to go on. Just leaving me I felt very alone, very very small, but I got it. The reason, he explained to me why you have to do this, is if you base everything on personal misguided, you can be deceived, you can’t be like to come but you try this, you try that. Through personal experience you will know wheter there’s anything in that or not. You can tell because you are doing it. You no longer have to believe and have faith in things you’ve never experienced. Scientific method, being open-minded skeptic, and proceed for the steps at your own personal experience.
What this does the master explained to me, is we exist up here in our mind and spiritually, we have perceptual filters in our mind which are shaped by our bullies. The things you believe it, and a personal experience. Now just imagine the average person in this world has a triangular, to use an analogy, a triangular belief system. So you got a triangle, triangular hole, sitting over the top of your head. Just imagine the all truth and creativity is spherical. Little orbs of truth, always an orb. If you try to force and or through triangle you destroy it. Or severely damage it. You cannot perceive anything that doesn’t that your own beliefs.
You can say the divine, everything above us here, exists in absolute truth and the now. So if you have a mind for lies and misconceptions, and missed beliefs, and that there. You try to bring the truth into that, you are to tune with it. You’re not in sync with the truth, because you’ve got this whole cosmology there ingrained tin your mind through your beliefs, and nothing but trying to come down will tell them of that. By redoing your belief system, based on your own truth and scientific method, you’ve turned your perceptual believe filters into circles. So you have a circular one and that was a little orbs of truth can come down inside of you. Little ideas like Robert Monroe called [inaudible 00:51:01] balls. Little piece of complex information drop in your head, which appear in your mind as an idea or realization.
Once you do this, it all starts to work you start connecting with your higher self and with the divine, and you start getting the ideas. This will manifest through you, uniquely to you. If your musician you’ll start getting little stupid, or low reps of music and words. If your poet will start getting poems, If you’re an engineer you will start getting ideas for designs. Whatever you are, you’ll start getting advanced ideas come through you. Me I’m a mystic, so I get things of the astral projection, clairvoyance, the afterlife, and things that I’m interested in and focused on. This absolutely works. This is where I came from.
Before the moment that the master appeared to me, I have an article on that call the catch basket concept which I’ll send you your mind me after this, and it explains the process. Before then I was pretty much like you guys Just trying to make sense out of things and work it out. After all this happens, I’ve done everything. I banged my head against a brick wall. A lot of experience I’ve had did not fit in with other people’s beliefs it’s impossible. He didn’t fit in with my beliefs. So I really couldn’t go any further until this event, which is the classic conversation with the holy Guardian Angel. That’s one way of looking at it. Which usually only happens once in your life.
After I applied that everything started to work. I started to understand, and move forward again. In a very positive (inaudible) light, and my knowledge of metaphysics and spirituality has blossomed, and is still blossoming since then… Based on the foundation of the belief system, by using the scientific method to purify it.
DR. G: It’s almost like, you remind me of Terrence from [Canithco 00:53:13] where he says the only things that are truly real are your direct experience in math. That seems to align … It’s interesting when you just mentioned how it almost seems your encounter with this master. Would you release this almost a shamanic initiation that certain cultures have. As far as is kind of breakthrough that you mentioned with his guardian angel spirit.
ROBERT BRUCE: Yeah very much so. If I had had a particular belief which I was programmed to adhere to, this probably wouldn’t of happened or might’ve been shaped. Just like your experience in the of the body in the afterlife is shaped. It might’ve been shaped to fit in with my beliefs. If I had been a Catholic maybe had seen a Pope, or something you’d expect. An angel may be appeared and gave me this, whatever. Give me this information. The difficulty there is getting true enough to make a difference. How much can you accept if you have a believe system you really strongly adhere to?
Your higher self can only work within these parameters. So can’t give you anything outside the box. Me at the time there, my belief systems were wide open. I had an inkling. I was just exploring the greater reality under the principle that I don’t really know anything, therefore I just got to pull this, tweak that, find out what this gizmo does, and just explore it. That led me to the plot their wire looked out with this. It was explained to me that I may never have gotten it without this. Asked to be bumbling along, and it could’ve taken me a long time to realize that some of the things I was believing in applied to this. Unpractical they don’t work.
XAVIER: Mr. Bruce if I could bounce in here. What I’m hearing from this explanation is that we have these paradigms that are inherent to our experience here on earth. We are taught that in a religion, or ship, Jesus, whoever you’re worshiping. These all become sort of traps. Is that correct? That these paradigms are built, and because of these paradigms, the progression in the afterlife and after you’ve moved on become slower because it’s harder to absorb the truth because of these real built conatructs that we experience on earth. Is that correct?
ROBERT BRUCE: Absolutely. You can use various analogies for this. Just imagine that you’re trying to understand the universe to chemistry, chemistry is all you knew so you try to expand everything through chemistry. You are limited in the sense that this is your knowledge and the only thing that you’re interested in is chemistry. Or could be physics, or Electronics, or could be [fur 00:56:26] mechanics. Whatever your field of science is. You could try to explain it as a botanist. You will all get a piece of the truth. Every religion the world has some truth in it, including Satanism. They all have some sort of truth in them, but they wrap them up in a neat little cosmology and blind themself to the rest of the world. They all do it. You’ll find that some people in these religions will admit this.
XAVIER: So kind of like take a grain of salt with everything that you’re experiencing, and doing, and move forward. One of the questions that I really wanted to ask you. I think you were speaking on coast-to-coast. You are very, from my memory, you underground for a while. You had a very tight knit group of people followed your work. Then you made your parents or purse to coast, and then you work just took off. I think you talked about you getting to a point where the universe was a sort of wall. This barrier. The expanse of the universe and you projecting their. Does this ring about?
ROBERT BRUCE: Yeah, kind of.
XAVIER: What I remember, I’m not sure if my memory is correct here, you talked about breaking through the wall and reaching this source thing.
ROBERT BRUCE: I remember now. That was in astral projection experience. I believe Robert Monroe had something similar.
XAVIER: He did
ROBERT BRUCE: A time in my life for years I tried to go as far as I could. I tried to find the end of the universe. I never succeeded. You can go so fast during astral projection, this is like a real-time astral projection. You have galaxies was in past electric lights incredibly fast, because the things you’re capable of international projection is equal to the distance seen ahead and how clear that is. This is why I think if you’re on a grounder in the house you can only walk. When you’re outside you can walk faster, you can go spices of motor vehicle if you fly you can go as fast airplane, you get out in space you go faster, and faster, and faster. The bigger the distance ahead.
One day I went as fast as I could, trying to get away from the few little galaxies I can still see around me, and then I thought I just got away from everything. Then this massive brick wall appeared in front of me. Gigantic I mean universal size. Millions of light-years across you could say. Made out of gigantic stone blocks. I come up against this, I’m floating in front of this and I say, “You’ve got to be kidding me.”
DR. G: Like a videogame.
ROBERT BRUCE: I realize the nature of the involvement I’m in so I use my mind to try and rip my way through it. Like I would do if I was going through a real brick wall. So I started tearing it apart and I managed to.