Gabor Matè – Transcript


At the New England and humane handling brain hemispheres at entertaining and mentally invented, telling me right now is an excellent front temporal occipital. I am in the film is is to take you to the interest. I think easily the human experiences traversing the realms of the mind-body connection as we speak to my guest Dr. Gabor Maté.

Dr. Maté, an honor sir. Welcome back to HXP.

Thank you.

Dr., much a your work has affected millions of people worldwide. Why do you think people relate so much to the language in the potency of your message? Is there a medical position to be experiencing the scientific knowledge of language? Are going to words and explain and know the standard language? Medical language? Something that people are, you know, intuitively

So interesting world is the separation between intuitive knowledge and the Oracle scientific knowledge. What I have, you know, is that the teachings of intuitive knowledge, about the library unity, and inseparability of our emotional and spiritual and physical existence, proven by modern science. And the organization shall to the masses the research and another translator people, so many with people find themselves doing my work with the excuse that to recognize the truth of their own experience. And I have. If you, in unison, sold some validation for their own experience, I really shouldn’t have the stress automated by an expert, being all of which denigrates intuitive knowledge. And the knowledge of the heart itself is held up, knowledge confirmed by the science, and that’s what I do, as well.

Why you think Western medicine is so backwards in this report? Why would you think that more physicians are discussing this in this way you see that Western medicine?

Western medicine considers disease idiopathic, which means they don’t know what causes it.

Why do you think this is?

Well versus science four is asserted, went from about it, and that’s not strictly a function of science. This really reflects the riches, say the necessary, where human beings will start to be considered of utilitarian value. In other words, your anger is defined by how much will they create for others, for themselves always to consume. A restrictive physical way of defining human beings. So the ideology of separating the line from the body is a society must. The medical profession not just sent all about the whole society, and listen to your part, if culture reflects the general call.

A perspective number of 100 physicians are comfortable, was quantifiable that the such as leverage a result send actually results in imaging findings, than uncomfortable with the issues that are emotionally comfortable. For example, trauma, which is a major factor in all illnesses. This was sends the actually mental illness addiction, and so also in physical. It was Lancaster, is choice of sources. Research shows the unity of my numbers are. Our research shows the emotional of antecedents, physical illness for most physicians. Your mother triangles and so on. That is very uncomfortable territory. Does an event exist or not? Debate is a researcher knowledge by the fact that it’s published in major medical journals, in scientific publications, so this is the permissible to say, is also reflected in the medical profession. Also Polish doctors are short on time to the stress. People restrooms of the traumatized people. And so the way to don’t stuff .And secondly, can delve into the mind-body unit.

I want to talk to people out there, rationalize in the context of physical illness, arguments time, and then modern medical economics. Doctors, one of the time, is more think, which is a very success that Western medicine. My 91-year-old mother-in-law looking your life six years, not least,or more additional, had amazing heart valve surgery. And the I don’t people who are brought back from the brink of death by the successes, than amazing achievements of Western medicine is sort of successful with those physical modalities. We tend to part of it the most disease is not amenable to your interventions to 10 to recognize that. Because when we are successful business, to be successful, any of what is happening documented.  Then Terry you between the brain and the body.

When we mentioned trauma experience, you are suffering from illness and how do you feel that the body is kind of send signals into the brain is very simple. If I were in the same room with you right now, if I threaten you with the weather in order physically became aggressive towards you, the first experience for people enough would be fear. Is very beautiful, is fair with that help. You do alert you that there’s danger to do something about it is not in response of emotion of fear. The hypothalamus in your brain would be some hormones, which would activate another gland in the brain, called the pituitary gland, then send messages to your adrenal gland and you’re getting the stress hormones. A development alone, cortisol helps you in moments of flight or fight response. We agree more energy to you, more strength, than weight faster, permits you to enable you to the defensive response, without which you would perish. Also, our best in the short-term, but was saying hormones that lasted at a high level in your body for longtime was damage you notice. So that one would increase.

Is heart disease and strokes married blood vessels make you anxious? Cortisol within your bones also adjourned test times suppress immune system, increased risk of heart disease mentioned. Address someone Solomon Sorensen is short-term triggering, distracts response. How to survive the long term, to close, you causes illness. And what, from this went on happens to people — It usually happens in childhood — potentiates a long-term activation of our stress responses so that we see the gentlemen, this child who were say, just the extreme example. And by your parents you might have a lot of fear out there in the world. You’ll be very defensive because you believe that was very hostile. The same experience, that noise you lived across the world, you always interfere. And questions regarding the stress response is firefighter response. So those hormones are not communities euros and 40, not to mention during trauma, also triggers long-term processes of information, and that the selection there were traumatized. You measure certain number of inflammatory proteins so that he wanted to get these, bring heart disease, including, I will disease, and so on.

So many of us to abstruse about it. Is nothing hidden about? What is the difference between a person who is someone who suffered trauma and reacting healthy towards stress, and someone someone who probably know heart is normal life and in dealing with my kind of hassles? And was that the difference?

It’s happening there in regards to dealing with stress and how person reacts to a trigger event. Will the traumatized person react with an extreme overreaction to the relatively minor events? Or another traumatized person react appropriately, so that the stress response to that is not traumatized. But I would certainly somehow then want to stress response of the appropriate situation, was a situation was resolved. Your stress response would’ve been even back to a normal, regular, healthy state. But if you were traumatized, a person is the over-the-top, you have your brain be flooded by the stress hormones and had less capability. Do not want to do in order to protect yourself. And the notion of the social impact of an incident lasts a lot longer. And foot on those people. This happens after they activate. They can be triggered by whatever happens in the relation of this partner of fellow workers.

Are employees and employers work during the stream to the reactor everything, whether there were not very active everything. That is beyond the needs of the actual situation. So longer than situations in a constant younger stress when they recognize and to use the stress they feel normal. Going to know that you’re being stress is fair.

It’s very intriguing. And you also discuss that who get sick, it isn’t an accidental. Can you expound on it?

Probably level. The body says, no. Just for the stress is connection, a lot of people and I, also with illnesses and I also do up on my own clinical experience as a physician and palliative care doctor, and them truly over time you get to motorists that, especially when his family physician as I was. You see people before sick. Your family specialist only sees people if they’re sick. Will healthy person specialist, so that the special fantasies that in the free busy state presented. And what I found is that the people that were prone to chronic illnesses like cancer or autoimmune diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis, colitis, Crohn’s disease, chronic fatigue, Lyme disease, psoriasis, chronic asthma, multiple sclerosis, ALS, and Parkinson’s carry on the longest those certain characteristics. One of them is, they tend not to be aware of their emotional needs and very often tend to be considered emotions of others, at the risk of their own, number one. Number two, they tended to originated identification due to the role and responsibilities. Orion of knowing, there were just as human beings, valid in their own right. They sought to identify themselves with the work that they had benefits a lot of people. Saw them and they were constantly striving to do more. Limited cartilages be those a second characteristic. The third one, for the most part, they great difficulty experiencing, let alone expressing, anger in a healthy way.

So there’s younger than is a boundary defense, these people very often tend to be nice, then they very early. And it’s not their fault. By the realm of character defects, they talk about. Here are ways of coping that people develop in their childhoods. So you are not allowed to be ago is really good on you. Then use of a survivor repressing your present was a way, as it works against you, is for you, and give. You know we have the scientific evidence suffering actual unity of the emotional centers in the brain within your apparatus, in the hormonal operates in the nervous system. Suppressing emotions, your certain impact on your immune system and nurses, the hormonal happens and so the repression of anger is a major risk factor for all manner of illnesses and is almost universal in people with autoimmune disease and most cancers. Of the final characteristics, the fourth one. That is belief that you are responsible for the people field and called to believe that you must not disappoint anybody. Reasons you doing things that may harm, you will be stressful for you doing it to appease others.

Of the Sphinx create stress, you say what anger is, can say it anger. How do we measure anger in a healthy way? Also, it’s been, you say that it’s a defense against boundaries. In June to find that people with maladjusted kind of boundaries or people who suffer are suffering from excess stress or people of been traumatized. On your boundaries, kind of thinner, or the different boundaries, right?

So let’s take a child who sexually abused. OK with others, he was outside. Estimate question were abuse is 501 careers, we speak about it. These are uniformly. Nobody think about the permanent. Your final child, in somebody look at you the wrong way, you want them to speak. If George is your child, you wanted to fund the Savior just for the sake of thought experiment, is find out that your five-year-old had been violated, the early and not talk to you. On to explain that known Bewley hearts Jewish know, but MSU over to understand that like shot, is that but there is an expansion which is a chocolate, interested the protector of the child, learned that you aren’t available for Novel for young children.

The parents of the necessary boundary, the child is the recent the boundaries the the parent has to be the boundary into the proper boundaries of the The boundaries of the guys draw around the child the child as the boundaries. The sugar core abuse, their paint on precession, because of boundaries. Lacking clarity is also relation the parents sold trauma, itself is, Google. Also boundaries know when a child is be by the got with this field. Look at this. Just imagine somebody inappropriately touched you as an adult, tries to force on you, or emotional, you have sufficient was first portion. I would be shocked researching anger to question the articles that I was your protection, say was a boundary protection, will the five your child with the anger in his and abuses. I don’t. The final child support from their parents necessity can express the end, be hard for them to expressing. It is it put the lives in danger. These items in the fight back causes shaman a fight that is about, so that the jaws survival depends on repressing meander. And because a lot of patterns, Leslie Savard all the lies mother figure, anger, very nice all the time. That is the boundaries of being invaded all the time, in the not protecting themselves. So anger is nothing but a boundary defense — a boundary defense that occurs in the moment the farmer to violate your boundaries.

Right now is people another and so the Gabor to be healthy expression of anger and be healthy, is be appropriate to the situation, potential boundaries. As soon as the threat is gone, now the celebrated November on the unhappy with anger sorry. The way to build anger is to possibilities, it’s usually want us to repress the anger. See very very expensive than the other, is become original. Like worried, I’m sorry for no reason, for no adequate reason, is going on and when one going on in both, the personal represses anger in both. Important and the person who is originally like, “what anger?”, is volcanic.

The service for health in the first case forecast is innocence case for disease, because both the repression or the volcanic eruption of anger have significant and that’s an organ systems. In our cardiovascular system and measured this, studied this. To patients I studied of the screaming thousands of research papers on these relationships is not. This is difficult for me again. Origins that of these are unified entities where the emotions and the hormones in the nerves in the cardiovascular system and the system — these all aspects of our survival mechanism that holiday possibly be separated, possibly imagine that when something occurs in one aspect of that last, of this is that that will effect in Europe. But it’s those also means that would be more, been diagnosed with the condition, sick, multiple sclerosis and arthritis. The condition does not exist as an abstract isolated entity. By this all be precise life of a person and persons relation to themselves, and that is the diagnosis. It need not be a chronic jail sentence of the diehard person matters to do with it is going to understand. That is, lifelong emotional patterns to have an impact on their physiology and by changing the status, they actually altered physiology. And out the way, it means that multiple sclerosis can actually be greatly mitigated really fast. And I know many examples of that. Even more feel disease like ALS. I know people, if somebody, that by changing malicious themselves, seems easy not my segmented, we can be cured.

Question millions and millions of tons of people can be much healthier. This basic set awareness somehow was infusing the medical practice, but it is in the world trauma, is not even mentioned in medical schools for most. So the core message here is that disease represents how we are moving this. And some us that obviously small courses of your poorer person would for jobs prospects ,11 highly polluted area knowing that, I much earlier than siblings, wealthy doesn’t smoke, gregariousness, obvious — the client that is less largely unknown by my profession is that alternate sources of ourselves. Emotionally, the moment by moment basis also is a significant impact. So as I concentrate on and when the places know is is is is a emotionally shirtless of the last one there, the language you can word count other. So I was when the bodies is no cost of hidden stress that is a more accurate title.

American pilot subtitle is exploring the stress-disease connection is not inaccurate, but the can is upheld. The cost of stress is to say that these really Karnak unconscious stresses that we create for ourselves unwittingly, because original programming, they are the ones that undermine our health. Then they need to be addressed.

Going back to boundaries, do appreciate your words, but going back to boundaries here, you talk a lot about how people have suffered, have difficulty saying no, and their impacts of not saying no … How can we be better at kind of recognizing our boundaries, and when to say no?

Elementary is the question. It because you visualize the last week in your life. And I not a lawyer person, so you live, or what awareness you can carry moment. I think that a lot of work that I get from the word, so needless punished for it, but disaster. This in the last week of us/ Two weeks were there times when is holding you, that want to be said, but instead. I mean I’m pretty good at saying no, and I’ve I definitely not always been good at saying no. OK, Milena abusive when you don’t say no, what is that the agreement? Is manual signal, say direct emotional affect and it it weighs heavily in head. Start to think about that event tonight we played over and over in my mind and I start to really worry about why I didn’t see you, why I didn’t speak up, citizen emotionally drained. This is physical and a drug you have.

There’s up its of pettiness him and second got type. You like that happiness reflects activating your nervous system. And science is the last thing those of their ecological effects of, and you know where it will not even aware that agreement, something that result heavier. So virtually any chronic center like difficulty sleeping, dry mouth, back pain, palpitations, nausea, start game fatigue — just a whole range of physical symptoms — that the parapelagic the wake you up in this body was. So that’s the body’s way of saying no. If you don’t anything from not so a number, your physical symptoms progress. You can you learn from this. It is a conundrum with the physical symptoms, migraine headaches, whatever, is the physical health in on a single work permit physical symptom relief. In movies to suffer the same, ask yourself what I must say no to that my body. Same for me. What is my religion must also my work order something we’re missing. The whole range single, so you learn from your body. That’s the first thing. The second thing is, once a week you ask yourself where this week, the night, a single most impact on? And why is unassailable all was no, because my belief was that if I say no I will beloved. In other words, I believe that love is conditional and on the emotional love alone is love on the condition that I behave myself for the sake of others, but is actually one of your life is the genuine and ongoing inventory affected your being that anybody with you signals and use of  the kind of self-examination, very simple ways of learning. And, of course, you can reflect back.

I learned that little was condition will learn, that a little when I met the expectations of others, I learned. Analysts years old will dilemma because of my life based on, believe the will of the world on a bad day is a common of the system. That is not difficult with us. The conscious attention. And documented.

It’s interesting to me because a lot of the people that I talk to and the people I encounter and need a lot of people, but it seems like we’re all kind of walking around this with some level of trauma that we experience in our lives. And somehow it’s filtered into the room through time into art, onto adult lies, and we’re still managing this. Dude, how do you regard this this systemic disorder system on earth incarnating here on earth in a spiritual way that there, you know, there are so when people suffering through trauma through their lives?

Well, for sources by trauma, so trauma is not the bad things that happened. Trauma is the result of that external happening inside ourselves, so dramatic event is not. my father hit me, or my uncle abused me, or my mother the innocently. Those of the external triggers, for sure, but the result of all that is, I dislike for myself because as a child only survive is something you like to my emotions. All this is happening is unendurable for a small child. Some only survive is that is from ourselves as a protection to suffering. So I don’t feel as much. I don’t feel like feelings of nausea, disgust. I won’t the run away, of my questions of regular the size that is a separate for myself.

In our society that is almost universal and that solar reasons, but fundamentally goes back to the system that makes it very difficult for parents to give their children unconditional love, say is difficult for them to feel unconditional love, that it is willful and deliberate in a way that the child is the passage stays traumatized, stressed. And so, anyways, and just say stresses. Parents and base of families, so you might, as a result, virtuoso of trauma, which is to say something of our separation from ourselves. This is so and the spiritual, really, is to recruit, which is also the emotional task is connected their authentic selves. Is uses that the problem is not what happened 30 years ago, what 20 years worship usable, if thousand from the bloomer, but some was a disconnection that is the Michigan. This very moment that can be recovered, the connection this is, effect the total recovery.

Even in colonies they find something, so energies addiction, for example, people recover what they find in themselves.  And innocently enough, documented by people, and can tell if you’re. For example I’ve had other words, many times, and I guess you want to have heard this from people with terminal illness or serious illness. That person will make astonishing statement that was illnesses investing that happened to me, that he is the interesting.

Yeah, I mean, I have heard that mentioned. Why do people say that?

Because is something more pressures anything hostages there connections themselves, first it forced them to realize that is connected they were, and that expensive authentic selves is what language spiritual the teacher causes the precious pearl,and that’s what we use. And it’s hard to get back to mean it’s simple, cylindrical, that entire, you know, life that is those McCaskey old. That is my ongoing responsibility, and the same for all was the day the romantic that are not to you on, and in our society that is something blandishments amenity ways of breast-feeding from ourselves, is all escape people’s experiences themselves. It is unpleasant and stressful, rather than revising the best, because when a connector to cells is the nearest that the escape from a discomfort and so is moving ways the Internet intelligent, the movies, through food, through sex, to power, through, well, through sports, doing number of activities. Just run away from ourselves.

Last night I watched in the the basketball game between Cleveland them the Golden State and the Cleveland longer was an amazing game. On your product was traumatized feeling that the last 50 years of 60 years in college sports championship, mystical nonsense, so love is a bunch of men on a small cord that is horrible poisons. The mother bunch of men on the sacred the somatic, but it speaks to the thousands, the hypnosis the people live under. And that hypnosis is designed for these serve the function of happiness. The Stratus also more of suffering, rather than seeking for the resolution inside ourselves by reconnecting.

The motorsports team to score more points for better of ourselves from two minutes is very powerful. The 20 I work in this start-up industry, as well. I find that it’s incredibly stressful atmosphere to working on and a lot of the people around me, you see, kind of failed. And make they’ll at, you, know that wanting accompanies the fill out there, working 12 hours a day. It’s obvious that they’re suffering. And how does that we do and our relationship to that? We do affect our stress levels and longevity for our lives. The issues know what we do. The shoes were being in our society versus what we do, is that they don’t really life is doing that. We justify existence that was accepted by parents’ message, unless opposite bank, as well, was not able to set like his former. They were salvaged from the work regardless of their doings, so the owner is by developing that is elevator existence. The beginning value defining is what is going and sending, unwanted doing, even if you succeed, what will that mean?

know that personally is not obvious those of copies of accessible on the standing ovations. I get people thinking before for helping them somehow in their lives. That is not the validation. It’s a temporary excitement of photographs in the morning. I still wake up if I’m in the mood the Stinson’s and Mrs. and business. So I know that success is needed. To the people have the success, they think that if I want to be successful I’ve got. The reason is that we’ll never get that connection to ourselves or to the truth. Some doing that is doing is sufficient, and that of course, is the spiritual quest of community — being in our lives. So, you know, the causation talk about the physical aspects of those prospects, emotional aspects, ultimately does come down to the capacity to be by them, to do and limited. We’re OK with our be there. What we do those become somebody it doesn’t become the testing ground in which you measure of value in your referring to the authentic being. Authentic self is very effective senses.

Intriguing. Covering your work, you talk about caregiver stress and I want to cover this a bit because you talk about how the child feels the pain of the mother, that how does that happen? How does it work?

Children are narcissists. By that, I mean that the negative. I mean something that the misgiving about themselves that she’s the natural response when the mother suffers. The Charlie believes that is because of the child and there’s a possible fix it, so the way the mother. And if the way they can engage the mother is to try to make another feel better somehow, father for that matter, is not because a lifelong bachelor not become chronic caregivers. Depends on the education of the child, is sort of roles that is full of kids. In Belarus will role as the great British psychiatrist jumbling pointed out, is almost inevitably the social pathology. The child later. So that, again, we’ll talk about is not a mistake. Study make her character false We’re talk about coping mechanisms, taking care of the parent is canonical, because almost automatically the responsibility child.

But loneliness become the responsibility when it should also, because of personality that they adopt possessively, survive. That means even after they no longer needed to do work, started doing that the longer. Depends. But with everybody else that is the ignore their own needs and these people tend to want to healthcare worker. Very often is a national way to fail. That’s an editorial in the unity for that make a lot of traceable, there is nothing wrong with drink for those offenders human beings. We need to do that. Obviously that is compulsively and chronically unconsciously then the over center saws a resource ourselves and music.

I’d like to deconstruct a little bit about your own personal journey. You talked about success in a way ,too, a little bit earlier. We’re aiming at what point in your life did you feel like was there any point in your life? Where you felt like I made it!

Hard done it have helped enough people. I’ve reach enough people. This book has got is sold of copies has or ever been it. Not in your life, like, that deletes the questions. I can resident three levels that occurred in your enough. The first little is the term unsatisfied. This career in the right now today is the last into your aggregator, than the last public experience professional ever. I see myself OK enough. The Newark and Newark will continue even if you don’t continue. At some level I know that, and it’s no necessity subsidies for me 100. I don’t feel. Ship, I’ve been the something more me that I need to express, the need to bring to the world, and we’ll see how that plays out. But I wanted to compulsively, so far, find out that is not the case, peacefully accept that. And then a third level, the scuba regard tendency, I have to notice it. I did this single know. Something I have to really practice. Still natural tendencies OK is a little similar to read and provided and listen for his in understanding engineers.

Some yesterdays all who just can’t find it anywhere else on this, not easy for me to say no. And then when I don’t, that is an entitlement marriage of a person life in my for the global all that. So it’s a novel of your question. This is three levels of electricity you attempting to you, answered guide, just jumping back into your work.

You to talk about the medical lexicon kind of dated and write. I also wonder the same. I wonder why doctors aren’t focusing more on what you say. You talk about how the doctor-patient relationship is sort of a transaction. You go there and you use your symptoms, and the doctor says, sure,  take medication to either make the symptoms go away. But there’s never a question that is stated. What happens you public house, you childhood growing up in Manhattan, each other as it doesn’t religions espouse correlation with yourself. Stress you take on when you say know where you say yes. We should be saying this, where there’s a great originated early successes up suppressing it, because you’re too busy doing other things.

So always questions that might even about the childhood. It’s even if he was on the childhood will not hurt the problem of the child, is that programs the present. So the child comes into the social patterns by visiting the present of you to concentrate on, and you question them. Quite right. 12 is a kind of the best be made. There transaction is the patient says I will send them but I wasn’t alone is all about just take away my symptom and the doctor says knowledge to help mitigate the symptom, and knowledge to look at the cause of it. Therefore, ambiguous in the relief, thank you very much tendencies, of faces up as a physician who are message transaction, is not just a Dr. but is also the patient by fine. However, that many pieces not everybody’s.

Some people find stuff too difficult, too challenging, too painful to look at, but many people’s arrest was asked the right questions. The religious that insurgents also answers you have. A friend of mine works and he calls himself a transition specialist who works in addiction. And he goes to these clinics and he talks to people who are addicts and helps them, and, you know, we were talking about having this conversation. He’s talking about how committed Medicare system is so rigged up to you, over-billing their patients, over-billing in the insurance companies. Doctors having this sort of network of full type systems. How do you respond to this practice? This was in them, in the in game. Doctors were paid. Listening are many HMO, where the doctors basically told you six misquotation diffusion, be working. And furthermore, to medical doctor and medical journals and publications and all the research is funded by drug companies, because it wasn’t the money. You’re interest in the nonpharmaceutical ways of dealing with things that what they is not whether profits are. So this is that for some limitations, they don’t spend so much time, moment number to train, as we prepared you to build positions, opportunity because bombarded by pharmaceutical propaganda oriented. So it’s not the corruption of individual doctors at issue here. It is still system is rated always felt that way.

If we can just jump around little bit and go back to the mind-body connection, you talk a lot about how the central nervous system and brain are constantly in communication, and is not the cellular system integrator constantly regurgitation the brain. And the nervous system is a central nervous system is the systems and communication. The brain is the key part of the central nervous system obviously by by central nervous system, mean the brain and the spinal cord, basically. And then the nerves that extend from the spinal cord. The peripheral nerves so suggestible to recognize of the brain, which is the part of the body that receives communication from the external world and this is medications in response to them is the key part of central nervous system these systems are in constant indication right.

And there’s more. There’s more messages going from the body to the brain through the nervous system, right all we had of the brain is usually more messages from the body, that it says of the best under the nurse of those communications. But at all times you got spends mimosas, minimum is that receives. For example, best like a feelings is important. And then, this is psycho, in immunology that while the science that studies the unity of the psyche, which is the emotional centers in the brain, work the nervous system, working the system, dollar losses to the cardiovascular system that sciences called psychoneuroimmunology, which is the fancy word for say that is all one.

So Dr. much anywhere about to wrap up here in a few minutes. But any what to think that you know you’re a person can do with their lives, someone who you listen to the show. and is experiencing stress and is starting to recognize that they are struggling with stress: What is the single most important thing that they can do to better their lives?

Well, but reduces the single most important thing, but the answer leaps immediately to mind is the need to become conscious of patterns that we automatically play out. These childhood scenarios that we keep impacting me. An idea reenacting they/re done unconsciously, will deliberately not to fault, is not into the fold. Work translated. There is what they had the just the multigenerational translated patterns of Trump, the recent example manifest in our lives when we go conscious of what we do. That and limited work enlightened so consciousness is the is the cumulative the Bible. The Proverbs, it says the beginning of wisdom is the getting of wisdom is to wake up, so the very fact that somebody might hear this conversation in the letter realize that will. I’ve been caught in these patterns. I see some of myself has to be, they have to go on the Internet consciousness. They do that. Some people will be inspired mentoring my books on addiction, stress, and help or whatever. There is a lot of information there. Or they find that at the door. And even though the research with themselves and at least that I can themselves Alonso. They were diagnosing orderly writing what I must say yesterday when needed to what is the impact alignment signal distinguishes up to before what is what is nobody telling me what the symptoms of messages my body study as they so awareness and data retention it takes this is takes the making of a decision that I am matter of my health matters and sending matters I will pay attention to work and not just keep my life unconsciously and hoping that everything will drive OK sense.

So profound to step to the simplicity of it innate intimate that you have done all this work to kind of bring this to the forefront, and end up with Keith people. Here is a resource to go to your book, send your writings is amazing, and you know it’s truly great to hear someone actually discussing this with anyone. The people in more that the charge whatsoever, simplifying my lectures are public talks. Do people keep posting these that Old Testament on there, and lots of people find the benefit just to my website. People can find out what is going to you to the confinement is just need to the lessor that this is a lots of other people, but there other people delivering this kind of message — the old people living in on trauma ,the sabbatical from the gender; stress is people not speaking Québec to the forefront, so is less of good information out there. Was study of wanting on the knew what is your website? How can people get to your website? The legally a Dr. Gabor method of Multics. Thank you so much for being here again and I really appreciate the wisdom in your words. Thank you so much.

This is the Human Experience. We will catch you guys next week. Thank you so much for listening.

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