Episode 47- Transcript – Simon G. Powell


Will healing experience but I’m doing to me the amendment handling brain hemispheres at entertaining and mentally invented telling psychodynamic and I believe I tell you think is an excellent frontotemporal occipital I at the film at the things that is the authentic take you to interest in this episode of the human experience podcast is brought to you by find mindfulness mindfulness these days is huge mass media is starting to understand the benefits of taking time to pause and reflect have you ever been interested in mindfulness and meditation of your wanted to create a practice but you just fall off track all this is were find mindfulness comes in the offer a community that will help you create those powerful lasting habits that keep you training
whether you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or a college student running a startup find mindfulness can help you find mindfulness is a very program how often are you looking at yourself just ask yourself how often you look at yourself and then tell yourself that you need to take this course mentioned human experience it go and sign up right now at www.findmindfulness.com what’s of folks this is our episode with Mr. Simon G Powell into we get into the history of suicide and manage influences on history and culture we talk about reconnecting with the biosphere biomimicry so it’s certainly one of those wide-ranging conversations I certainly recommend you check out Simons work I found his book Dolphins unfinished business especially interesting he’s also got a couple books out on suicide and you can order copies of those below otherwise please get to us on social media I try my best to keep things updated their we are in the process of getting getting the site a cleaner look so I spent some time this weekend working on that for you guys you find us on Facebook Twitter at the human XP subscribe to our YouTube channel these explained the podcast out as much as you possibly can word-of-mouth style I mean I think that people love the show the only thing that is stopping us and that is hurting at so if you’re sitting on sending email don’t hesitate I do my best to respond to those we’ve got a stack starting March really intriguing authors you had thank you guys so much for listening the human experiences in session my desk tonight is Mr. Simon G Powell his book is the mushroom explore Simon welcome to reach XP yet I start style XML soap Simon your your work surroundings this sort of idea of psilocybin mushrooms and have their insights and you’ve created up couple books on this singing what sparked this interest for you and how did you get into this is a good question why would anyone spend their adult life the investigating a substances considered this cost is the schedule wanting America colossi in the UK is wish to around it yet I became interested in suicide and as possible as many people do because the effects is so interesting anyone is interested in the consciousness send the potential realms of consciousness and what I would argue all authentic spiritual experience is not spiritual in the inverted commas you can eventually be elected the ponds and substances like psilocybin just to psychedelic substances think approached in the right way with Karen cornfield I can lead to very illuminating experiences in his because I had a number of illuminating experience is gone it of deriving from Washington at from mushrooms a growing the country mature living here in the UK.net at the money was ever exchange this is a natural resource that grows every or some in the UK sell it was is a case of exploring this free resource from this the generous biosphere always were in which within which we live be there was three to the those kind of a nature-based experiences with the with the naturally occurring resource that that inspired me and on stop with it for about 25 years could is interesting so mean what what was what was the conclusion is your research because I’ve read rhythm articles and this is becoming think more commonplace that the studies that are coming out that say that psilocybin is able to repair brain tissue it’s helping with PTSD were these ongoing things that seem to be coming up where sulci been is hopeful so what is your take on the will you state of resurgence in the scientific research with psilocybin together by the lost 510 years obviously interview some of the main research is in America and yeah suicide is is proving to be very useful therapeutic tool will primarily that it’s being used to alleviate anxiety and people suffering from them base also being looked at as a therapy to treat wine Alabama obviously mad guide a recent scientist from Alabama is doing we cities looking at them using psilocybin to treat cocaine addiction so you can imagine if I get that’s connected a lot of the headlines if if they get positive results from eyes been use is been used successfully in in various therapeutic settings to cure addictions and to alleviate anxiety and to alleviate obsessive-compulsive disorder this, think if you if you recognize that this compound has benefits why do you think it’s illegal loss as best we had left over from the I I questioned a lot of the scientists about this will why it is illegal on the is a whole that is a load of the reasons for that mainly because of what happened in the the 60s and down the it and as as a fear of sort of the the the using can count control the populace is the mail is unfounded fear is not unfounded fear because it is an aspect these be psychedelic agents the they they call was to emerge an unusual potential within the human psyche and unusual is coming exotic experiences and when we were that that that their union to to sort of multicultural out all the coaches managed to integrate the substances so there’s a lot of fear that because we are pricier friend of ourselves reflect it with things like Pandora’s box roadbuilding we need to have fear but yes assisted is the is a slow integration process that that clinic that the got recorded up a schedule 10 colossi state disk is that believe not have the ability to be extremely harmful which is not true that not the knotted psilocybin is not addictive is not killed anyone, and I considered not to have any medical utility lines been proven wrong recently because papers a been published showing the medical utility so things is that the changes in the next 10 years of my menu even in England God save the Queen but did do you find that the perception meaning lenses different as far as the usage of these compounds defined it’s different bear versus and states will that the situation until 2005 the situation was psilocybin with it was different in America and until 2005 it would in the UK it was legal to pay can possess on process psilocybin mushrooms another people of been using them for about 30 years of Zion 2005 they work of the fresh market was a legalized Batam jamming the Scituate is the situation with with the drug situation in the UK pretty much this the same as in the USA like a zero to alcohol is fine tobacco is fine but at nothing else any other changing consciousness is deemed to be your criminal offense youis just as crass here the situation with drugs disease in America will that although I was recently in a lost sales receipt in America imposing Colorado actually in the coming I think you legalize cannabis then how something that you in another you one step ahead in and you go to wonder why something so readily available alcohol which turns most people into complete ass hats is legal and these compounds that kind of expander consciousness make you think of you wonder why the Internet that exists so moving on here are you in your book magic mushroom explore a you talk about to even mention content and cannot and you talk about how kinds bringing the experience in using the darkness and silence how have you found that affects the experience what talk about my book the originally I Terrence McKenna we set should take psilocybin inside a.medicine I used to do that in the yeti 90s book from the submit 90s onwards until now I found it’s just is interlock my prophetic mode of taking psilocybin is out in nature and like wild Oak Forest far from the from cities and thought from from the civilization and to take mushrooms of being picked locally take around a campfire was a close friend with you know eyes open some of the time and exploring the forest and exploring nature and I’m bonding with nature something that methodology is just as rewarding and just as is interesting is taking it inside and domiciled telling there any set rules you know there’s the most important thing is sets in setting to be in the right environment and have the right frame of mind
intention now you on your website you describe yourself as having a case of chronic biofuel you witches and awareness and love of the instinctive bond between yourself another living systems what was that mean exactly just made jokingly said suffer from chronic by feel that people like to me is all you are you okay this joke is a separate issue in the book but because of all these advantages I had out in the Lake District and Snowdonia the lost Italy’s the last remaining wilderness areas in the UK weather mushroom grows my like trek around take them and take them in situ you really commune with nature of your forest you really feel the kind of wisdom within the within the forest and if the stalls around it is fantastic and the sound of running water in looking at the trees and the insects inhering Batson was, thing it really stimulates biophilia when we remember we live in a time where there is a political nature deficit disorder because we become so urbanized we’ve lost touch with the biosphere you not much to the biosphere’s detriment as was will learning with with with the effects of this nature deficit disorder summit is a tool for the for addressing nature deficit disorder and catalyzing biophilia which we need I think you know psilocybin is that these basic is a great tool for doing so I’m yet chronic biophilia that’s just when you’re biophilia just gets ramped up to really high levels and you know you feel like you’re in love with with the biosphere so do you feel do feel like you’re interacting with the plants and their consciousness in some way the global consciousness life and a lot about what I call the paradigm of natural intelligence I think you can interact and feel and sense of there’s an intelligence within nature within living organisms within biologic but I don’t tend to see that as a conscious intentional intelligence as such as it is an unconscious intelligence but that it does a even if I say it’s an unconscious intelligence it still replete with wisdom on the whole point is is that we can learn from life and we can learn from ecosystems and we can learn about sitting biosis and try and incorporate I into human culture so that there different interpretations of what some of of this intelligence which is undoubtedly within within the the biosphere Role in your book the sulci been solution which I think you were after mushroom explore right in our suicide and solution was will will write back another room I told you so so in sulci been solution you talk about the role of sulci been and mushrooms in the history of our culture and the connection in these creatures in organisms create around us to mean how did you get into that can you tell us more about that please well it’s got along with it that the the history of the mushroom is fascinating because it’s being used in Central America Iran in and around Mexico for thousands of years in my use the mushroom we know the the Aztecs use the mushroom we Nilan various other cultures in and around Mexico is just a fascinating story because it was the West go Europeans in the West didn’t know about this until golden Wasson in the 1950s discovered the secret mushroom ceremonies going on in Oaxaca Mexico so the how the whole history of the mushroom is fascinating and what’s even more fascinating is the one it was first when Wilson wrote his famous life magazine article about psilocybin mushrooms in nothing that cannot 1957 you still within living memory people would flock to Mexico define these mushrooms in and people just did not know that that we now know there is there is a about 200 species worldwide but they were not as far as we know they went right might’ve been used thousands of years ago in Europe is not hot evidence is that it but they we didn’t we didn’t know about it was a new thing of people in the late 50s and early 60s would go down to Mexico to join us secure to secure it to just secure up samples of this motion not knowing that I grow all over the planet you know they been documented documented everywhere now so the hit the history of the mushroom where it grows and now it’s being used is is fascinating always your those are connection with the muscaria and Christianity, interesting in your book fly guy mushrooms well I’d I tried the first mushroom I haven’t tried was actually applied Arik mushroom is the big red and spotted direct read what’s bots on another nice again effect from them more I’ve threat they shouldn’t be confusion psilocybin mushrooms is the cycle activities completely different than all even cost is a psychedelic thing the cost is the hypnotic vocal something some law might my main area of focus is the psilocybin mushroom in the amount of the flight are a mantra you do you dimension the connection between Christianity and a link between Jesus and this by not true the name of the person he mentioned that started this the theory but basically that poorly grows actually this this flyer garlic mushroom a Mintier muscaria and Christianity and Jesus is kind of center ground around that is not an area focus I I jaws steer clear that I die others this comment to question when know: is justice not it you know I don’t buy into those notions of the because that is because of the cycle activity of the fly dark if you gone Aravind allegro Newgate yet if you go on the air way to look at people’s experiences with flyer garlic is often you notice often unpleasant as a unpleasant effects on the body and is is totally different to the trip to means in the trip to Maine to set aside in things on psilocybin I was For instance what I would call the true psychedelics on-the-fly directly of the active ingredient muscular enough to get is is is totally different to the trip to me soft notable into those theories that the yellow that you just spoke about okay so let’s let’s move on here to mean where you see yourself moving towards with with this work mean how how do you distinguish yourself and versus other people done this and Terrence McKenna wrote for the gods and to your your kind of writing about sulci been but were used your work going within the next 10 years of well my my area focus now I’m on one I’m interested in the most is this natural intelligence paradigm is is a saying that the new book the thing I’ve the main thing I got from was about 25 years of research now was psilocybin the main thing all the gift inverts: is a felt inverted commas that I think I received is it worries this natural intelligence paradigm and I’m very keen to promote the notion that evolving life is is an intelligence nothing is important because we need to learn from the intelligence where the crucial juncture of human history and we need to if human culture is to sustain itself right your you hear a lot about sustainability all the time were life life been around for almost 4,000,000,000 years is learned the to sustainability so is a tremendous amount of wisdom within organisms within ecosystems in the relationships in about it relationships between organisms I used to think about this and feel with the law June my psilocybin experiences and lacks what I want I’m concentrating on is the natural intelligence paradigm and I talk about natural intelligence I don’t even have to do without psilocybin I can talk about psilocybin because it was the greatest inspiration behind behind of my current work but time it’s it’s a subject unto itself so that’s the other thing let’s try not what is what is natural intelligence what you can you can contrast it with artificial intelligence if you think of clever robots and Michael think that the computer systems for intelligence is what I would core it’s the intelligence of life itself that life the taking the fact that life evolves is so flexible and plastic dates and intelligence and it’s not just a minute the traditional scientific view would be that life is pretty much mind listen essentially purposeless the nature is essentially purposeless on the life is just interesting stuff but is not just interesting stuff is in if you hit it is interesting stuff this interesting stuff that the Hayes in a specific why in the specific why in which living things behave and biologic behaves it’s it’s intelligent because the remember the root meaning of intelligences to means intelligence yeah was means to choose between so devolution through natural selection is the assistant to the selection of of sensible choices so so when Donald in defined devolution is descent with modification I would say it’s more a case of descent by way of sensible mortifications as soon as you use the word sensible that leads into intelligence and so my my what I’m timing is is that the evolving life is an intelligence unto itself and its decision be confused with creationism because creationists when I talk about intelligent design there in faring and intelligence outside of nature I’m saying nature itself is an intelligent system and was there is there anything in your experience that you would say is where that defined like perhaps defined your thinking of me was there anyone experience that changed the way the you think about the nature of things what the while and it was mainly to natural intelligence think tank derived from being in forests under the influences psilocybin I picked in the vicinity so system a matter of time spent in an ecstatic blissful state of mind feeling very very close with the natural environment feeling in communion with the natural environment and really sensing that the whole system was there was an intelligence to answer is yes for myself the inspiration but behind the natural intelligence paradigm not promote came from my psilocybin experiences out in nature so what we were can we do how can reconnect back into the sense of nature and disconnected from it we’d supper from technology and the suburban sort of crisis so how do we connect back into nature and how do we move towards this reconnection why I mentioned a few you can have arguments and you use rhetoric but them educations very important the end of my latest the magic mushrooms scorebook I’m not talk about things as simple as seemingly seeing the Milky Way I found read somewhere once about 50% of people mauka’s most of us live in cities never see the Milky Way to something as basic as saying which our ancestors would of seen it what time you I would of been connected to the bigger picture because they would of been perceiving the bigger the spend the splendid that the glory of the bigger picture every night so because of you you we need to design I like pollution and I think children need to be taken out to places where they can in on school trips whatever and yet evening and in the stare but sometimes the it’s set I can still does stop guys also things like that to know we need more pox we need more road shut down and converted into strips that you like posing central pot recently in New York I love Central Park Ms. these beautiful illegal is taught with beautiful bird slap bang in the middle of the New York City brain is the extended unite you need light larger roads shut down and converted into strips is the flow of woodland the whatever so we need more Greenport greenery we need to more green roofs you think of all the roofs of buildings you know that just that we need it you know if you if you’re back off-line our city it looks doesn’t a very organic so we need to 10 make cities more organic something green roofs having living living walls and living ruses a good idea basically companies to become will panic if it’s to fit in with the rest of the biosphere needs to become old and I can wait you’re right we have an obsession with human technology of my men we just buried in looking you know mom phones and stuff and you know tripping over at other mess with cricket, thing you know so am is important we get back to nature because we have to offshore one day all being well we will go to the stars and human consciousness consciousness will spread out do we need a firm footing how the latter has to become a strong the base that we set off from these to be sold it in healthy anyone you go to so late unhealthily is the keyword base can usually afford, thing so we really need to repair our relationship of the biosphere and that’s why I bang on about this natural intelligence paradigm is part of the problem is the way we conceive of life on if we don’t see it in the right why out and think so there’s a lot of things that can be done just even just talking about it is a good thing right so you you are and I found this interesting you wrote in your book Darwin’s unfinished business really about how evolution is not just about survival of the fittest but also must include clever insensible behavior was in what is that mean what would be an example of clever insensible behavior be disclosed saying earlier I sensible like a set Dali defined devolution is descent with modification is really descent via sensible mortifications the genetic changes the changes in the genetic code to a selected by nature the nourished by nature preserve by nature which is a larger environment all those changes that lead to some kind of life-affirming behavior in the octave living in being in the did to to improve the art of living in being behavior has to change in a sensible why this is why in a moment human culture doesn’t is not sensible when the context of the rest the biosphere so this word sensible is very important but as a basic example of intelligence think of this list so I’m always this organism I found that if you put is this like a mushroom his mother is like a fungus but is not a fungus I found you can put it in a maze with food in the middle and it will explore send out tendrils to all parts of the maze the tendrils a definitely to anywhere sensible was no food that they kind of with the best tendril of makes it to the center and exposes center where the food days per comes preserve done the the sly mobile concentrate it’s a structure into a direct route to the food of the center of the might and when I they do these experiments recently and it was hailed as an example of intelligence without nervous system the newest made headlines in nature magazine you intelligence and I’m really primitive form is but that’s a good example of sensible behavior that the doesn’t need to be conscious but it’s sensible behavior so well nature constantly preserves is sensible behavior in a better metabolism better vision that the hearing that the running ability better ability to find Walter if you’re plonked better ability to synthesize enzymes is always to do with sensible life-affirming changes and when you think about that you embrace that idea that leads into this notion that it’s intelligence and that’s what intelligence is where intelligent because we can make sense of our environment and the life is the same life is learn to make sense of gravity to make sense of the lows of physics to make sense of the nose of chemistry the whole thing is it is intelligence that you human intelligence is the latest offshoot of this cute human consciousness and human intelligence is built on a huge pyramid of already existing intelligence which is the biosphere so how much would reducing that are lack of understanding of this processor or maybe we forgot that we were connected to the biosphere maybe through all this technology in August advancement that we use we’ve disconnected from nature somehow business is not like a suggestion we disconnect disconnected from nature that’s what was suffering from global warming and will these environmental crises do not this is there is no yes not made is that this would waking up to this more more that we live in a palace human cultures to go to lick the way I think about Islam we cocooned ourselves in these urban environments that are just for love you know the value system that that is nourished within these up and involved is awarded to make you money in advertising and you know is this human ideas everywhere we’ve got basically mankind has his head up his own office you with a done we’ve lost this connection with the life-support system is not only is the biosphere naturally intelligent it’s a life support system the VA had a your breathing down the ad I’m breathing now we had it out told done might that you know 70 duck make these big corporations done make fresh oxygen you not it comes from this huge forest system around that’s the circle the northern hemisphere and the you get out in the ocean now that the the biosphere is is a life support system it sustains itself know always very complex cycles the we don’t understand yet since symbiotic relationships huge webs of symbiotic Natural intelligence and we we were only beginning to acknowledge and we just like us I weaved we just cocooned ourselves away from that we think we can to do anything we like do anything we like been as much fossil fuel as we like without realizing where. The fossil fuels produced by naturally the natural naturally intelligent activity of photo synthesizing Clontz we just used we like immature children the layout blundering about a new polenta things in that we can do this we can do that without any any awareness of the lot yeah life-support system which even now is sustaining us as we destroy that life-support system so we really need to wake up to the the wisdom that that the is inherent within the rest of life and within the rest of the biosphere and asked if you can’t grok that then take some psilocybin mushrooms and maybe you can agree completely that we are kind of trapped and I think we we laid out the problem and were kind of we’ve we’ve demonstrated that we build that so what is the solution mean how do we move towards more green things around us mean how can we consciously not just by talking about about how can we practically a can we use action to do these things what they wanted one of the was signs in the right direction is a biomimicry movement you where the biomimicry movement know the biomimicry movement like a than Institute biomimicry Institute biomimicry means that that definition of the biomimicry movement is the conscious emulation of nature’s genius which is natural intelligence and in other words conscious emulation of nature’s genius of a looking at engineering solutions by looking at how nature does things to last a step in the right direction we need to look to nature to learn how nature does things how life does things how life uses energy how life recycles out input become output becomes input amiss, thing so as of the developing working on this and Jami energy we need to check it was still addicted to fossil fuels in the UK recently gave the go-ahead for the first trafficking operation I was thinking man is like Is like up a cigarette addict dying of lung cancer instead of switching to a electronic cigarette giving up tobacco together is ripping up the floorboards to try and find little bits of tobacco that the down that you know so franking is assigned as a desperate attempt to squeeze as much fossil fuel out of the biosphere is possible last not the right direction you so our energy your we we really have to’s to switch to him in a green renewable forms of energy in such so yet is a kind of green movements working on this to you know you’re aware of this and you go of an interest in Panama culture now people getting off the grid and them that I just I I quickly looked this up and I guess they’ll grow example of biomimicry yet the weather that is that is all manner of things Xavier you can look at think much energy is used in the air-conditioning in all countries you know is a tremendous amount of electricity used and therefore is a high carbon footprint the unit you look at a time I found it remains that conditioned in a relatively low temperature is a time onto dialyzed is not plugged into a into anyways will done through Walter evaporation and you know the actual structure and stuff so long life really is ingenious it’s diocese figure out all kinds of the wonderful ways of using energy and you know and achieving homeostasis in a healthy healthy constitution so I’m we were your we need to be looking to the wicked (that is what is there is wisdom in the rest of life went on the only species in others life has been out for 4 billion years of must be doing something right in the forest you get forest that’s been the Philippines are visited forest there were apparently about 60 million years old and it they went messy eating out of this survive for 60 million years without without humans with boards overseeing everything and I work signs on because life that’s we’ve illusion does it it it works out how to do things so we really my point is it’s my point is that our relationship with the biosphere with the rest of nature of the moment is one thing and we need to readdress that the relationship is not healthy at the moment Simon were approaching the end here man where can people find your work what you can just that was my website Simon G Powell.com Walmart stuff so mad books and interviews and films of my do stuff so a very anything you’re currently working on the outlaw it’s been a use in some way to film of just begun filming some people to make my can of I said earlier on natural intelligence is my main thing that could of us I lost film I want to make about suicide been looking at the recent the resurgence and psilocybin research suicide and science on making up just begun filming for a new documentary about the the the mushroom runtime environment really appreciate your time through think you so much for being here this the human experience we are getting it out here we will see guys next week think you so much for listening


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