Episode 46- Transcript – Mr. Peter Panagore



whether you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company or a college student running a startup find mindfulness can help you find mindfulness is a very program how often are you looking at yourself and just ask yourself how often you look your cell phone and then tell yourself that you need to take this course mentions human experience it go and sign up right now at www.findmindfulness.com what’s of folks we are here with yet another really need rafted episode for you guys in the citizen we spoke to Mr. your panic for he has quite distorted how he has been canvassing these areas really (he cleared on NBC it to tell the story and when you’re finished listening to this episode you’ll find out why this was a fun episode Peter is super easy to speak to just really warmhearted human being I highly suggest that you check out his book have is beautiful how dying taught me that that is just the beginning otherwise please make sure you get to our Facebook page give us a like subscribe to us on YouTube follow us on Twitter at the human XP if you enjoy the content and he wants to do more shows that to the member section of our site the human XP.com become a member it five box, which is the equivalent of the cost of a cup of coffee houses that you actually care about what we’re doing here but I do graph thank you guys so much for listening the human experiences blasting through the Byzantine conduit in your boring making drawings in your ears vibrate as we transition into the afterlife with my guest Mr. Peter Pan a Gore Peter my good sir welcome to Atrix be thank you very very much for being here – an automated here. Your story is harrowing your book had me turn pages I mean it flew through your book but let’s set a premise let’s create the stage for your story and start with your education weird did you go to school so you… St. John’s high school is messages is where I learned how to meditate from my senior year religion teacher got off to a monastery nearby and come back with this lesson that began my whole life as a meditator and then after that it will not to the University of Massachusetts press studied English literature your Montana State University on exchange and I did my graduate degree Masters of Divinity Yale University my sewing you mean were to were talking about death here in the than the fundamental thing that we share beyond relate religion race creed geographical location and he invariably we are all going to die so he you’re your let’s talk a little little bit about your your fascination with ice climbing because that’s how this this experience all started for you and you can tells little bit about ice climbing what is involved and how works my fascination with ice climbing was short-lived I had one climate real fascination was with mountaineering out technical climbing and backpacking I found myself an opportunity to try myself on ice and so what was involved with the skills that are to develop this technical climber Robeson harnesses and concentration of my fear and courage so that I would pay attention to exactly what I was doing ice climbing is like up of single I did sport where at any moment you know that something terrible could happen if it does happen someday result could be the end of yourself and so that type of sporting experience focuses the mind and of meditative way it makes you single-minded and that’s what really attracted me to that I I want to prove to myself that I have the the inner fortitude to focus my brain and strength to ignore the possibility of that I mean this is a highly dangerous activity sport right it is it’s it’s if you look at her ice climbing than playing football in football everybody gets hurt and ice climbing some people get hurt them so want a percentage basis it’s not quite is dangerous is football but the differences that you tended people tended guys climbing as opposed to in football so so okay so at the beginning of the 1980s you embarked on ice climbing trip that to put mildly to go quite to plan and had consequences for the rest of your life including writing this book that detail your experience what happened on that day and how did it affect you know an eight-game back countries know caving experience with my climbing partner Tim a fellow that I got to know very well on this country experienced been previously didn’t know at all yet Clinton the strip together but we got together because of the opportunity take this trip together so we only on each other about a month before we headed out into bridge Columbia Alberta and we finished our trip with a one-day ice climb Tim my partner was in a league climber of technical rock and on ice and I was technical climber but I’ve never been ice climbing before I talked to him into thinking that I could do it because I done so much rock before it it’s true I could do it and I did do it but I made of bravado caught the 21-year-old choice on my equipment I I chose to use an ice ax and a hammer other of unequal length and you really need to have ours without looking at all that I had one hanging from an adult and one in my hand which is really actually is one hammer and two axis but I have to axes at two hammers and one acts and the way of the acts works is that it has a a shaft right and has a ago hummingbird be gone one and then up on on the top of like a blade, and adds on the other that hummingbird you plan to hummingbird end of it into the icing you take the shaft which has opinion of the bottom and you drop that into the Isaac the 45° angle with I thought Ms. and there’s a strap midway up the the shaft maybe a third of the way up through a ring and you can put your hand through this loop is attached to the shaft and slide of be found the loop to block your hand and seek election let go the acts complained the acts ago the acts and dangle on the acts by opening your hand up a little bit and rest your arm that’s the way it works that’s what I did one arm the other armies this much shorter hammer that of William pleasure the Isaac sets the same way to 45° angle the strap is on the bottom of the shaft and so you if you dangle audited automatically close that hammer off of the ice salt what that meant was that I couldn’t rest and because a good rest and burned myself out rapidly it was it Tim Tim told me was a great idea but we both wanted to do it 19 do it I’ve we successfully climbed this was that was the problem the problem was that it took us so much longer because I was so exhausted because I use this hammer of the by the time we reached the top of our climb it was sunset and all the other teams on this climb had already left the ice in the stragglers were leaving to the parking lot okay let’s look stress for little bit and you what was that point in your mind where you kind of how does knowing okay I’m about to die was the first point happens when we were the top of the climb and we realized that we were in serious trouble and if we stayed when we were which we discussed that we were going to die there and so we decided that our best chance of survival was to try to get off the ice or die trying we knew we would die we decided that we would struggle so that we might not die but that the moment came when we had forced her way across and down the mountain face to our last rappel but 150 feet up and I had gone to the stages of hypothermia to the point of being hot and then to the point of falling asleep in between the point of being hot falling asleep with the rope around the corner on jammed and were in place that I couldn’t get to had one bitter end which is the end of the climbing rope tied to my harness may drop the other bitter end so that I could pull into the that I ring that was way up the mountain and this is this was in Canada right the Mr. Simon in Manitoba Canada starting to much I was amounts of a it was north of Banff the Northwest about that Souther Jasper and Alberta and March and was confused on the grounds and it was wicked called it was it was very very cold and knuckled can kill you I wasn’t something I didn’t know I I knew that I’d been on ski patrol since I was a maybe a sophomore a freshman in high school and had experience of training and experience with removing people from my mountains when I had frostbite and hypothermia was the first time it seemed what crystallizing to myself that Sprint so your you’re on this rappel you’re going hundred 50 feet down with 10 and that is the second time that you realize there’s something deeply wrong or other know know this is the third rappel to question you up to go to the last position we were in Had we had gone from the very top of the mountain last through a harrowing evening of of violence shakes the room became a 300 foot not we decided from our first repelled the rope froze in position up about us we couldn’t get it free Tim tried to be a send up on are on a free a sense with no protection from a fall on the rope off the rock like shimmy sort of shaming of the rope that’s not an exact of description he was using certain types of knots which is actually that the were friction-based but once we retrieve the rope from that we then traversed across to our next rappel which we descended to the last rappel witches where this story really begins for me in terms of my and and we were on this of ledger hundred 50 feet up it was a couple hours before sign-up the temperature was very cold the moon is about three quarters it come across the sky we could see almost in color because of the moon but there’s still 1 million stars overhead of having brilliant color because it off in the distance the Columbia glacier and I had I’ve gotten warm as I mentioned and unzipped my code and I knew that I was a bad sign all all the blood rushes into the core of the body in order to protect the essential elements and I knew that the rope was stuck and I knew we were done that’s really what happens I I became resigned and even peaceful thinking to myself that it was a beautiful place to die and that I was not coming out of this and my parents and my siblings were going to suffer as a result but there was nothing more that I could do and so I began to fall asleep and we fall off my perch climb myself back up to my perch again when I upgraded the rock as I was hardest in wasn’t really paying attention attempt at this point I was mostly in my own world and I’m about repeated a few times until this last time when I was standing on the ledge again and I watched the world feet black like the end of the of an old-time movie I watch my peripheral vision circle in on me I wondered what was going on at never seen anything like it before I thought to myself this is this is it hundred I remember falling but I don’t remember getting the rock and I remember thinking why am I not asleep I my still conscious to your body felt my body felt I was hardest and there’s iron pin an iron ring them up the belt slipped into sleep falling couple feet every time I felt off of the sledge a bunch of but I wasn’t enough on the ground out of what I figured was can happen is is that I was going to be found so early in the in the evening before on it after our second rappel the Wharton of provincial Park Wharton we had signed into the log because were going into a wilderness area came looking for us we were on this climb of the climb wasn’t very far off the ice Palace it’s highway the parking lot across the street middle of nowhere like seriously maybe one person per square mile it out is that nobody there and he had parked across the street after I won’t get on our first repelled onto the bottom of the first time and we were we lost our coordination which is us hypothermic thing we were losing the ability to think clearly of confusion and our lives are jaws are freezing as well so could hardly speak what he came and we saw him across the street we assume it was him and we jumped up and down against icy could CSU/is like so we waited that gave us heart to get you off to the next rappel which was down this dark crag gone out of the moonlight around the corner onto the sledge where we don’t stood of so I thought as as I was dying is is beginning to die that the Lord would find it next day dangling or the weather or the early teens the teams that could got there first with see me and probably 10 dangling from our harnesses frozen while Mark let’s let’s keep going manner mean so the world it faded to black for me and I have fallen the night I did lose consciousness every time I fell asleep sleep you know and I will be up was I smacked in the mountain but this time when I felt I thought myself all but it didn’t to myself that the mountain and I still had was awake and I was wondering why my still awake and and then stubbornly I could see through the mountains and modeling to my eyes were closed I could see through the mountain and I could see of vastness and in this vastness this darkness a a Morpheus grade black being that was immense rush toward me like like like a tidal wave like the wall of of of of a river broken from it to have rushed right toward me and it and I knew that it had intelligence and intent because it communicated to me that it was going to take me very clearly that that you wanted me and it was so infinitely powerful I I I didn’t want to go I put up my willpower against it to block it and I spent all night being driven towards survival and if anyone’s in the listening audiences ever benefits you serious survival situation you will know what it’s like to do ever deeper discover inside yourself she amount of willpower to survive against all the odds and I put that barrier up against this this intend to take me but it took me anyway as if I was just a little tweaking a river what about and and the next thing I knew I was in this incident darkness there was also illuminated and I could see in every direction but I didn’t have any eyes and I didn’t have a body and I didn’t have a brain and I remember thinking that it because I didn’t have a brain I was thinking so much clearer and so much faster and that I had so much more knowledge that I didn’t understand where it come from and in front of me was a gigantic door like a darkness of the darkness was translucent than transparent and there was a proverbial tunnel which was darker than the greater darkness and I reached out with my being and I touched this translucent than transparent flow it was like a shimmer like a river flowing down and and it was living and and and was a start up that I could see that it was an I could see was both transparent and translucent but it didn’t really disturbed me to that it was so and when I touched it it had life in it and when I touched it I heard my name from deep down inside me you rock and it wasn’t my name Peter was the the grounds of the essence of my being that’s it was my created name it was the thing that made me me it was the name of my soul and in that instant I knew that I was in the presence of God was outside of me To me but I couldn’t see God and I heard my voice I heard the voice inside me and the boys had knows no sound and it had no words and it had no sex it was not mail and it wasn’t female it just was love and and I was in filled with Bob love and beauty and hope in truth compassion all wound into one thing and I knew that instantly I was in the presence of God and and in the knowing of myself as a being as a created being I knew all the pain that I give everyone in my entire life I knew all the love that I’ve given everyone but more importantly at this time which was timeless by the way this is a place of timelessness and no thing andknow dimensions and it I’ve suffered all the pain that is given everyone my entire life was like up a life review of all of the bad things that I had done took to her people and I felt their pain I didn’t feel as if I was feeling the pain I felt their actual paid and it was cumulative it was every single person I’ve ever caused pain to in particular people stood out like my sisters my my sister Cynthia particular of will feature because I knew her longest and best in all the time that I heard her with intent and all the times that I’d her without intent and all of it was immensely painful today and and I judged myself as shameful for having caused this pain to the because in the presence of God it seems so ugly to me this pain that I caused in the God was so beautiful and my humanity caused other humanity to suffer so this mean this is being was displaying to you reflecting back at you the the pain you would cost and your vision is 360° you can see everything around you and your mind is capable of absorbing all this information knowledge and yet you’re looking back through your human life and you reviewing all the pain it because yes and I didn’t cause myself. You might life it was done to me and it was it was I know he was like I Saying to me I know I know you I know everything about it is nothing you did from a about you never has been anything hidden from you about me from the about you and I had immense self-knowledge of all the things that I had done and got Saying I love you I know you your my beloved I forgive you because I know you because I made you dislike this is not a surprise to me I already know you suffered and caused suffering and I was forgiven for that of not because of anything I’ve done but simply because I was loved and I’ll show was ashamed to position mean this is such a powerful powerful story and and just you have this you have the sensitive just humbleness in your voice but you know it’s almost like a supernatural quality as if you know a secret that we all know but we just don’t recognize and I mean how did this experience and mean was there was there something inside the experience that that showed you what you had I I only see myself in comparison to the divine it wasn’t it wasn’t so much humility as it was a recognition of the immensity of the divine being in love it it’s it’s not so much humility isn’t this I bow my head before you because you’re my brother it’s it’s in ICU is my equal because God is our parents the one who made us who is so far beyond that’s and and the comparison of myself to God is like a a stack of like like like a molecule floating in the vastness of the universe and God is the universe and I am just a tiny speck and and I I said to God and my dad and this is without language and I said it inside my being in constant yes you are dead and I said like can’t die we got said why and I said because my sister had vanished and my parents were suffering greatly for that my mother had a bad break down the family was in turmoil for a decade Andrea her name she was at every meal at at every Christmas but we can never mention her name because if we ever mention her name my mother would break down the mother spent every single night for half a decade crying standing in the living room with the lights off staring down the street with the curtain pulled back looking for my sister crying herself to sleep every single night and we will we couldn’t talk about it because anytime we talked about it she breakdown sort of protector we had a rule in our house don’t ever mention Andrea and never talked to anyone about ever in our city my dad was pretty prominent when we lived and everybody knew something that happened but we we were locked down and so my parents I watched my mom suffering like to get angry and I said to God I can’t I can’t take another child for my parents and my got swept me over to see all of earth I could see it we single human being on earth it once and and I could see it every single human being like me was the love in particular especially and that not one of them could see as I could see because they were still in the flesh and that this veil that prevented him from seeing what I can see and God said to me in the way that I love you now you’ve always known that now know that you I’ve always loved the and I love you now I always will love you and that my love is what you are and what feels you and gives you beauty and and and forgiveness and and makes you special and beloved and I knew that internally I still love I don’t know into the empty immensity because I’m stuck back in this body again but the memory of being loved is overwhelming and I knew that everyone was love and God showed me my parents in particular and the suffering they were living in their lives) and and I knew that they were beloved and because of that love and because of where I was I knew that all would be well God said all is well all will be well all has been well because of my love and he asked me you know that don’t shoot and I I knew that to the core of my being that in the end the suffering that my parents would experience by losing me what happens in beauty and joy and love in the same way that I was experiencing it but but I see their faces and I couldn’t I couldn’t make them suffer more so this was mean this was the reason that you came back you couldn’t make your parents suffer more loss I knew also that the length of my life was the wink of my I that time time is a visit total illusion just like spaces and that an eternity the length of my life amounted to nothing and so knowing that I figured that it would be instantaneous for me to come back but it hasn’t been that worked out that way and at least not yet maybe when I die don’t feel that way but not yet been so I I then said the God yet another reason I’m on the theater company want going national tour we been in production for your production going into production of 24,000 miles of 64 shows all of the United States went to Mississippi and of I I I promise I made about to my director that I would not be hurt because we had no understudies and and ice I said God to have to stay here and God said no you don’t have to stay here and I said will if I go back I come back here got said yes you can come back here and for me that meant the love and the beauty and the joy compassion faith all wound into this oneness in that was inside of me that filled me and I said connect them back here in constant yes you can come back here and I said will I choose to live my life and God said you will live your life and the next thing I knew I was being screwed back in my body get it was painful and I remember wondering what was going on and I I swam to consciousness and sign my body but I didn’t even know what body was I’ve I was so disoriented I I didn’t know you know what I was not alone where I was or what was didn’t even know what matter was while I mean why would you from mean how did you how does a person process an experience like this mean you will just touched the divine and I mean you’re this 21-year-old kid and you just died you encountered what you call God and the fact that a better term for lack of better term and I mean David it just if it blows me away so dresses and it it’s it’s in a In 1980 it’s it’s 2016 every day I try to figure this out how there holding them up to 57 tomorrow helpful happy early birthday think you think you so I mean and bulimia in the in all this time you know you have been sharing your story and well not quite I I A secret for decades and I I started sharing it publicly about 15 years ago to Mike Congregational United Church of Christ minister I so so we week what what made you not want to share because it’s crazy that so so I was on that I I came back to consciousness and and I even understand language and and is a swam back at but I became cognizant is a slowly begin the process that it’s that I heard the words I thought you were dead you were dead don’t die if you die I die in and it was then my partner any help you… I was couldn’t pull lately didn’t know who he was or what I wasn’t and I don’t know how long we stood there as I tried to figure out what was going on and we had talked all night because return to save our energy to survive is every time we spoke our our our fuel in our bodies went down noticeably and and I pulled on the road which is been stuck in it came free first goal like a miracle and we descended we got into the tent we treated ourselves for bottle after sunup which wasn’t that long away amendment we decided we’d be warmer in the car so we when we got the car in we defrosted my feet were like ice blocks my hands were were were immovable it can tie out: was it frostbite fingertips my toes my feet must face and this is after the experiences your back yet and is really like try to figure out where I’ve been trying to save this body that I’m it and and then I the next day was terrible day is that is that night was it was it was almost worse the next day and no one I want to give too much with his because of the book but it was really it ended up with me and him splitting up Wellstone Canada and me having to sunup the day following of type back to Bozeman which is about eight or 10 hours away from where I was I went and we use a little money we had left for Tim to take a bus back to Bozeman I hitchhiked and hunting was extremely angry at me for for what happened that day not that night but that the day following and and I remember standing at some at sunrise thinking to myself as I began to process this because most of the day before I slept I was exhausted to select in the car as we drove Tim drove and and I’m American remember thinking that the world to me look like a cartoon, figure out is like being in a two-dimensional space I’ve been in a in a four dimensional space and now minute two-dimensional space and it was it was the most beautiful place the sunrise was gorgeous and to me it was not beautiful nothing was beautiful anymore I was in beautiful the sky was in beautiful the mountains were beautiful nothing it was all like black and what to me like going from a color world into a black and white world and I knew that something it happened to me but I didn’t understand what I I knew it was God but I didn’t know where I had gone or so it it sounds like you had in your life experience not in your debt. Will I would call it a death experience is not enough in their about it when I was when I was a years or six years old I went swimming in a river and I went down to the third time some got hauled me out that was near-death I would drop miles got knocked off the mountain by a boulder the size of her for a refrigerator another kind another client and it swept by the with inches within inches of me that was a near-death experience if I had turned what it smacked me in the back it’s White House the mountain of that would kill me for sure this this was that and when I came back here to this world this world was flat ugly by comparison and and most of me was still on it still on the other side and but not in those early days I was so disoriented and confused that I I have enough rational capacity to understand that if I talked about it people might think I was crazy so’s you kept it in the closet I I locked it down I didn’t tell anybody and and I my career like change went back to Montana well was theater tour instead of riding around in the 15 passenger van with all of my peers or even driving which is outside of the good writer I refused to drive the device all the drivers list of you got a pickup truck with a trailer with all our costumes electronic year that I went back of a pickup truck with my winter gear and I I sound the backdrop I did talk to anybody and I performed at night I had we stayed in people’s houses and I was sociable but I I I I went by myself into myself and that was that was my next question how did this happen this affect you how did this this change your life well in a practical sense of I got come from an architectural family my dad had of a one a one-man firm but it was the of significance outside of Austin it was big in the national AIA our American student architects and now my whole life and then below is an English major elected and oriented towards going into my dad’s firm on I’ve been drawing my whole life in his office in our classes and was working construction as a carpenter’s over for three or 45 years of don’t really remembrance of my head there for long time with the idea that I would go to graduate school in architecture like my sister was ahead of me another sister and that I be able to converse with the blue-collar guys swinging a hammer but I would help the graduate school architectural degree and the capacity to run a successful business because I could work goldens stick I could design the building and talk to the guys I came home and home I couldn’t do not I ended up going to this monastery this I mentioned earlier conversation the monastery near my Catholic school how I started going there on retreat in order to figure out if anybody could help me and thought we were you trying to understand I was trying to understand this and I’ve been meditating already been up for three or four years before this happened I just don’t ever deeper and meditation became my my salvation it became how I I I I sat with the contradiction of the paradox of being here are not being from here it was turmoil and it was depression and it was the darkness and it was isolation and loneliness and alienation and I’m nobody could possibly understand what I’ve been through nobody could even if I told they couldn’t understand it and I knew that much and and so I went to school and I went to divinity school of authority on Princeton hundred Princeton and Yale and I chose yell and because the Dean of students took a personal interest in me and what I got to the to school I asked her if I could begin to study mysticism even though it was in a primary course or of course at all course of studies at Yale there were a smattering of courses around the University and she let me take them and also she let me take independent study with her so that I could study systematic theological thinking while studying the history of mysticism of the West in order to gain some knowledge of language and experience of those who went before me I might be able to find somebody like me and and so I I was in Washington over the weekend on this past weekend the doing of of a book event speaking events in a show of great day Washington and but my host was a good student that I had no long ago and she’s of Rev. Dowd as a church down there and we got to talking and I do know are extremely well I was in school but were pretty well and she told me over the weekend that unbeknownst to me my do school friends were talking about me even my close friends, behind my back because I was an oddity I never went to Chapel on three years of school I never went to Chapel but once because it was a special speaker want to hear I’ve I spent my Chapel time and meditation on my home all he didn’t do school was study project meditation is yoga and play ultimate Frisbee that I found it a team with my cofounded it but I like fun I still had fun of but I I they all thought it was stolen all the time because walking around she children is Kathleen Kathleen’s as you can you walk around this little smile in your face all the time and and units such an otherworldliness to you and all you did was meditate and wherever you were if you weren’t studying you are meditating it were doing meditation you are doing yoga and and we understand what you work and you were barefoot all the time and of the like to you you were an anomaly and and and they didn’t know unedited broadcast that I was study mysticism and how do you relate to people after an experience like this and did you were you do you feel kind of isolated in after experience I was isolated us to laugh the way figured near-death experience people like me are is where our own try of we live in these two different places all the time and and you and those early days it was very difficult I I lost my high school sweetheart over this she she couldn’t I love you too much grasp how I dealt with people I love them and that’s that’s my my connectivity with them but but I was too intense for her and to distance i.e. especially those first few years I’ve I spent so much time meditation and the one I wasn’t and meditation I was still in meditation where you open with her or did you keep it from her as well I I I didn’t tell anybody no one I told my wife the woman I married which was years later when I was it might be my second and third your did school of I told her and I before away surprise you but if I have any regrets at all and and it’s that is I was completely unfair to her installation know that I was strange already of it weird things have been she seemed weird things like the like like one day the northern goshawk is out birdwatching outside of Boston is is Greenbelt outside of Boston erosion the North Shore the salt short and between one 2495 and I was in this very large town of Park Forest it was connected all these other state parks in town forest and it was was a big area but is a small part of that convert the Eastern bluebirds and by myself meditating will I walked in the woods and an architect by northern goshawk and chased me for miles not the ground I wrestled with the state and stuff weird weird animal things weird weird other things just I mean when from my point of view I’m back in the infinite darkness again having a divine experience see still have a link that I still have a link to this I can’t unlinking and and my God I tried to them because it’s it’s been it’s it’s functioned in my life is a blessing and a curse and for most of my life it felt like a curse on only now in the past several years last this past August in particular but a couple of events that have happened in the past several years of may be more integrated enough here that I that I can stick around and not failed so bereft of and what would you say to the person that might be listening to this that has encountered something like you experienced mean and are kind of keeping keeping them keeping it to themselves what would you say to them which I would say that it’s not 1980 anymore and that you can talk about it you can find people you can talk to about because I think the one of the things that happened to me is that is is that by keeping the secret to myself and twisted inside of me you know one of the things that I up lots of gay friends and we talk about before they were in the whenever in the closet whenever out of the closet when the wind the culture gay culture was in the closet 😉 culture was out of the closet and this is because huge transition going on out where marriage is acceptable culturally and socially as I don’t have to hide anymore pretend anymore and how being in the closet come by lying living a dual life living into life can twist a person and I got twisted little bit by living a dual life of not telling the truth it it wasn’t that I was lying to people other than the fact that I told people I believed in God which I didn’t as a part as a minister of because I don’t need to believe in God that I I have trouble believing in here with have is the fact that is the real in this this is the illusion of and so to tell someone who’s had a near-death experience for something like that maybe they were in the operating room and they left their body and they watch the surgery and the bidding go all become taller out into the vastness that I wanted to or or maybe they’ve had on astral projection dream where they know that they let their body and that they know that they can back into their body again your soul is probably and I’m thinking that in the 21st century that’s going to become clear through science the soul is a real thing and those of us cool live in and energetic soul that we feel it know that this is true and inverse near-death experience people the body is in the illusion completely it’s not the real thing and I’m hoping in the 21st to make the 22nd of the 21st century science develops of a way to see the essence of the human being maybe it’s made up of them you want I don’t know it’s made up of I just know that it’s real and I hope that science can see it and so that would give validation to people like me definitely definitely there is this conversation has flown by but there are there’s an experience he talk about in your book have is beautiful you talk about situation where you you prayed over a badly injured person on there’s a car accident you and paintings a little strange write it up to how I mean well I left out the strangest part of a wrote a part of the book after I’d written the book with my publisher came to me and said you need to add something else in the it’s a little out of this world and so I I struggled with what to put in there and I put that in and then of the fellow was in the boat Brian he does live far from base my best friend Cecil as it was apparent made still in the begins Muniz and Peter I went I was there you left out you left out the strange stuff and the strange stuff is that what happened what happened is this we been on a retreat he was leading a retreat for kids was my first beginning of trying to be a you a minister in the United Church of Christ of the Dean of students taught me into the same demon let me study mysticism she taught me to give this a shot and of so I I went on this I was a leader on this is great retreat probably skewed statewide it was I I’d kids this is photograph of me from that time where all these kids are clean Oliver have recently and intimate as radiance that that Brian was talking about it and on the drive down back to New Haven he said Peter I love you and I trust you and I knew in that moment that I could trust him and then you know were driving down the road and I look ahead and there’s a car flipped over just happened it flipped over it was upside down on the median strip on the railing upside down raise about the ground on that the guard really between the two you know the north and the south lanes and but but you guys are standing there are doing nothing excreted trying to stop the car pulled over is yelling at a many didn’t he had seen what happened on on the highway and I jumped out of the car and ran across the highway the budget guy soccer players or softball players standing around like the exotic I shouted out is anybody years a medical person may nobody was I simple I’m I’m taking over the scene on the DMT and I which I technically wasn’t I was a licensed ambulance attendant but that’s okay called easier to say that of and so I took over the scene and I went over to the old man was lying on the ground and he was semiconscious and I’ve I palpated him and him and his his belly was like rock and I knew that that meant that he had internal bleeding and bad internal bleeding and there was really absolutely nothing I could do for and so I couldn’t remember shock in the dyslexic is an urgent much and so all I did was I again to pray over when I put one hand about this for had one hand above his chest and I just dropped in the meditation and I wasn’t praying for healing or anything else I was just being a channel and and it was like a lightning bolt came to me repeatedly the top of my crown opened up in this energy started blasting through the which ruled my head then of and in the just Charging through me and that’s the minute the ambulance had arrived and and that young the real EMTs paramedics were asking what was going on to me and I described when it happens and so I I took his head into traction while they they call her him and backboard him and we lifted him on a backboard under the gurney and they put him in the ambulance and off he went and I then ran across the street again and with Brian would come over to see what was going on those when a lot of commotion in the back in the car and of and and I began to tell what it was going on on and so really I I might to your started to hurt incredibly like someone had taken a knife and job it inside of my guts and swirled a knife around just cut everything and I started screaming in the front seat of the car and swerve the squirming of screaming like like an agony and Brian for Brian was try to figure out what was going on it and I was screaming, guided her summer job and I couldn’t couldn’t articulate a mortar it’s much is just just primal scream and and and I open my eyes and I hope I saw the steeple on a local church they were driving by week off and strike me in the chest and take my pain away and and of course the steepled and actually do that the across the top stay where it wasn’t because I what I said and then as we drove down Brian strategy whole was going on in that I close my eyes the rest because it was exhausting me it had exhausted me and inside of me I was back in the utter darkness again traveling it at light speed and and and in the far distant the very far distant horizon allege I could see the light but I was so far away from it and I was traveling inside myself of it and like light speed and in this that experience lasted days that interior experience of of being in this other place whenever I close my eyes and and over the next week of prayer would strike me it was like a hot sweet buzz and honey would would enter from my feet and sweep up through my legs and and over my eyes and I would I would collapse wherever I was standing I was a standing in a used auto parts store or or sitting at my desk in Dr. Kelsey classwork and I spent those three days and was like it was like was like God was praying inside me like I wasn’t praying anymore but the prayer was praying me and it was wordless and I spent three days wandering around completely bewildered so much so that Brian and our friends beginning became quite concerned about my mental stats of and after three days the intensity of it lessened enough so that I went back to class and of and and and Brian came to me and he said what was going on and and because the conversation of unite before the accident where he told me that he loves me and trusted me I decided to tell the truth what happened and why why this thing happened to me and I wasn’t control of it and that the past and to keep my secret because I knew that it sounded crazy was behaving in a crazy way and and so i.e. that’s why was a guarded about it for all the six that’s not the only thing that’s happened of a lots of other stuff that was the most public the other other there’s been other things that have been other divine experiences that have been less public but witness when you’re in your blog you talk about using yoga and mindfulness to coproduct painkillers you had a heart attack or you saw your death want again in August. Now to that was recently amended you are months ago I I I I ran 5K today before and I was at adding go on sale I have a small sailboat and I was going to go solo sailing because I still like adventure of and the fog rolled in and so I couldn’t go sailing and was Saturday morning someone to yoga class late and in the middle of this yoga class of guitar practicing on my own good social the socializing I had a heart attack and I self diagnosed because I done on an ambulance working on and controls years and of volunteer of and they rushed me to the hospital and which is an urgent care center where we live hospital closed and the doc said to me and can shoot you up with this the coagulant hundred percent blockage in your window maker but if I should you up with is a good kill you or could give you a serious stroke chill never recover from work and maybe give you a chance to survive long enough to get to the hospital which was our power and Hathaway of I told to shoot me up and so he shot me up and identical through 5% trickle three told me and then they were going to be morphing of the patient because it was a an immense amount of pain in my heart and I told him I can take opiates because they make me sick and that I would meditate my way through my pain as I have done you know my life when I can I put these my meditation to control my pain and so I physical pain so as I was being wheeled out into the ambulance on the right of the hospital my son came over to me we was in town for the summer working in a call student in he squeezed my hand and looked me in the eye and said I love you dad and it was only later a day later that he told me that the doc ER doctor told him to say goodbye to makes his last words to me and so I’m in the ambulance and I have my hand mouthing my right mind because I’m not on any medication cream-colored meditating in my meditation I see death come to me again the same the same being nice is a Celestine only this time it didn’t rush me to take me it it hovered around me and offered to take and as I looked at death that came toward me in a gentle way but when I look back in my meditation desk or seated and inside my meditation I could hear my son saying to me I love you that and I started thinking about my daughter and my granddaughter who had been born Bob sometime earlier this year and I realized that they needed me here and that I know I could go death would let me and take me I decided to stay once again for love and patent I’ve been the best that I could be I know not the greatest out in the world but I’m the only doubt they have an they still need me and so I chose to stick around although I’ve been praying for my own death God take me since the day I came back the first time while Peter and this is a beautiful conversation man I’ve I have we are at the end here ladies and gentlemen the book is called heaven is beautiful how dying taught me that death is just the beginning my guess is Mr. Peter panic or Peter thank you so much for your time and your story serve where can people find your work your website to websites Peter category.com Peter panic were.com and daily devotions.org I work for daily devotions us might my work these days but Peter panic were.com you thank you so much happy birthday thinks that and the will have you back again next time the next time he to kick got headaches and was Peter really really great conversation Douglas you all love is the thing love is it

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