Dr. Gabor Mate – Transcript


Additionally experiences moving through the reward pathways in your brain as we speak to my guest best-selling author world-renowned speaker and lecturer Dr. Gabor maté Dr. Monteith welcome to reach XP is a pleasure to have you with us of your document gave you could just open this conversation with a brief introduction to who you are for the people that don’t know I think that would help way the foundation shirts of a medical doctor retard action for medical usual after 32 years of to practice over to care looking at the real people was an essential development of your category experience affects people’s work lifetime” is over again what is North America’s most concentrated area of drug use Vancouver the countryside where improvements people living with HIV drug addictions advertised in the local applications of motivation and social oxidization of four books of including the political solution and when the body says no one the mind targeted in health and illness what I found over the years is that you can’t separate human emotion from the of human beings you can’t separate individuals from environmental of the rich disease in a person is not a unitary solitary discrete event but reflects their relation to the environment including the social and so was, I thought I found the Stratocaster botrytis I found that trauma is a fundamental influence in the also related diseases of mental elasticity addictions and other problems in others is a unity of what human life know that in my reporting to conceive been reared in his decisive influence on our health later on and the police of developer under ourselves based on those expenses also revision paranormal figure can we just start with and I like to get into a few things he mentioned but what start with how do we define addiction admission is an eight year characterizes any behavior that a person finds pleasure or relief in the short term will craves but is

negative consequences in the long term it is unable to get out of this vital negative consequences so creating pleasure relief in the short negative long-term consequence in the delivery of it as an interventionist and that’s weathered substances of sexual gambling work shopping alcohol whatever it is as of the finds addiction why do you think this is such a wide problem have you noticed that addictions worse the same all of the world or the different based on societal groups for very very cultural reservoir is happening and why and the common basis for addition on the individual level is trauma in other words just yourself I’m usually is injurious to my definition of action by that definition can you tell me if you inventive behavior in your life Yassir okay would you say what was wrong with it was right about it was a good to for being me feel good way it removed the stress from my life okay in others edition wasn’t the problem conditions your attempts solo probable stress was a little question is why your sorcerers in life and and posit that you do learn how to handle stress anymore autonomous sender and and and liberated way and so is something happened you and so the Wednesday motivation is there is always a response to something that happened this largest disease the call for no reason in session an attempt on the part of individual cassava problem that their life is present them with so the more trauma there is the more stress there is the more child emotional loss there is more people than want to addictions to relieve the stress of all going to relieve the pain o

f it is so easy addictions and societies where is letter, be addiction institutions in cultures where is a loss of the holding environment is a loss of the question and the community in the contact over help you do it stress more around helpful ways I mean it I think one of the most important things that you mention is that people just want to be normal and people are just trying to be normal can you get into the bit more please follow absolutely grasp it was a disaster will what condition before you will say well, it were bringing stress is to help ease my pain it made me feel more connected in unison is control the volume qualities as we all feeling controlled all of the connected going to feel the relief from pain we all want to be able to do with our stresses on normal human aspirations nothing wrong with the resolution was why are people so bereft that they need to turn to an addictive behavior is normal qualities that I should give them so does nothing remarkable about people’s desire to experience normalcy it was remarkable is why don’t they for the culture you look at them strong is a strong thread in your work is the relationship between childhood trauma and how it affects their mental and physical health as an adult and how how would you say how important is this to understanding addiction of relation it’s crucial as I mentioned in the downtime etc. Vancouver witches North America’s most dense area of the use and 12 years of work and resume whenever rooted a sexually abused them so on the child made amenity of use dramatize neglected and abandoned you look at statistics in addition much is my own observations useful relationship shall traumatization job trauma predispose the addiction in a number of ways number one very development of the brain depends an environment and so when children don’t have the supporting loving of Jemima’s the brain circuits will deprive the chemicals that make unfiltered so that I wanted to addictive behaviors to the most economical so if expandable child trauma also horses emotionally very painful sense rehearsal your this lifelong pain that you are going away from the missions all of anywhere from pain then be was authorized the child that was traumatized does not recognize that the some of the old world than actually assume the sign with them so does a tremendous is a shame that many people are aware that there were traumatized that it’s all her fault it’s all because o

f Florida there is no indication system that a lot of Florian in the whole child was traumatized is a digitizes of isolation the very essence of traumatized isolated from your my messages you loans you, from human contact) loneliness) could be cut off from universe from a sense of spiritual connection saw the things that people need are undermined and and and promoted by trauma hundred and trauma is the major factor in predisposing condition is unfortunately most efficient solutions don’t even realize every single person in the alert is a traumatized human being what would you say is the difference between ceremonial are used usages to expand consciousness versus a person sitting in their room kind of drinking themselves into oblivion your amazing you substances for thousands of years even alcohol alcoholic because their trying article experience so that is a condition spirituality and you can use almost any substance almost any substance of the city the naturally occurring substances live the same without you can use them ceremony of the select peyote which human Native American Church’s videos forms of years thousands for reaching higher level of consciousness being community to receive the teachings of the others it’s the elevator level consciousness or you can use it to escape Egypt kind yourself to children and to to know the journey worker want trip you know away from reality so the substances the nonchalantly rate conditioning there often you ceremonially on the same people that that traditionally have used in ceremonially was you traumatized them and culturally destroy them we use the same substances in other ways defining question in substance use is not what substance are refusing orders the context of was the intention and what is the guidance of drivers the use of substance serving what we what we need to do as a society and warm drug seems like an abject failure love you do should be the one was a failure only if you believe it’s premises of if the one drugs is really intended to stop use of drugs or soft the trafficking of drugs they need to say well it’s a complete failure what if it isn’t worth the one drugs is designed to keep people under control worked on those is designed to give legal and police system well flush with funds what if the purposes the subjection of minority populations they that it’s a major success for the subject to cover the subject were quick to assume it is a failure but but yes interested in stated purposes. In addition of interdicting the the trafficking with the class what is it of drugs insulin failure is always going to be because Islamic the one America

n lawmaker George said he said that you can melodic alone. The you will repeal the law of supply and demand in the low gravity so that if people do not want used in the euros question is one of them I was was this ocean pain so if you’re not stop using drugs begin with helping children not be traumatized create a society which be as a supported create a society which pregnant women are supported by from the first panel visit and in dealing with their stresses it is create a situation in which people in not be part then you think of prevent implementation otherwise So what needs to happen the social level is the rehabbed understand that actually believe in a toxic culture that has people which incidentally has to the patentable, working on the right now scope toxic culture and then the society has some ways of hurting people I speak for about that but usually want to stop the use of addictive substances we have to stop people from being hurt on a massive societal level you you talk a lot about harm reduction and how how can we use power reduc

tion to benefit this understanding we have in regard to addiction well in the context of of drug treatment I reductionist particular approach know the ideal of course anybody was addicted to substance and is destroying themselves and people around them to the drug use what is alcohol? Awareness ideally they would quit ideally it domestic consumer can be free of the drug use and that’s useful as unrealistic one for everybody some people still too much in pain allies on chaos they need the drugs to feel a sense of relief sought reduction needs it somebody the needle that is another project himself of HIV somebody of person means even helping them find a vein in the arms of that project in the next and give themselves a vein assess so I reductionist of you is reducing on the originals of these reducing the harm from the social ostracization and rejection of the drug so I used to be the physician in a facility called the simple injection site is the only site in North America; the people who bring their drugs illegal drugs but the bring and and they actually get rejected under medical supervision that reduces the harm the less likely HIV/like a. Brain abscess Leslie to pass on infectious disease as a premise is there in your opinion a tipping point when something news from a so-called normal level of behavior and then becomes an addiction again if you look at myself micturition is a short delay foreclosure but long-term negative consequences you learned basic is a very simple test audit alternate path of the some people you love somebody will medicine volume I think that the behaviors o

f long-term negative possible that your workaholic is the category certification to get out of great achievements of people love you because you want great working all the we might not even realize motivation exhibition look at was in your family and children be more than your marriage supper so so the question always is are the negative consequences despite the short-term relief in the short-term craving is the hypothetically speaking in in regards to drug addiction do you do you think that if all legal drugs were legalized tomorrow there would be an increase or decrease in drug addiction and the league says getting legalization in a sense of should be sold on the streets on the corner stores representing but we know that introspection such for example in Portugal when it decriminalization of drugs where if you possess drug for your personal use you know can be labeled a criminal in those situations and anyway does of provided the heroin. Is provided confirm heroin addicts under similar conditions you know that there’s of these we refuse Innocenti is criminality in an increase in people significant so the perspective of the evidence is not even controversial you as as a society do you think we are quick to treat mental and physical illness with medications well again the the medical you will build sweaters as of Mono/has to or mental slight depression or say anything is that was simply the

biological and that is the things that biological so whether to surgery or through” manipulation of the brainless medications and so to a limited you we all recognize of both the physical elements in the mental illness reflect a person’s lifelong relationship with environment and the and that the mind and the body can’t be separated so these happen emotionally things leverages illogically and that means that the treatment of all young sweaters cancer or depression or anxiety when you’re Menzel’s has to do more than just addressing the physiology we had to recognize at physiology reflects lifelong experience this is because the experience it reflects the experience is a product of the experience it and it causes more experience so for example if I was traumatized the child as a result my brain circuits of serotonin another great chemicals on functioning so well I become depressed then they’ll behave in ways that are depressed of the most of myself in a but is a lifelong interaction between the physiology and the emotions and my situation a society in my relationships so that just to address the logical side of it which is what we do with our drugs is to miss the the cause and solution so I speak is a physician prescribed medications the people and is a person taking the benefit from them against them but they’re not the answer they just a part of the answer and it should be a small part of the answer I’m kind jumping around here through topics but did is it in your opinion is it possible to become addicted to anything there’s hardly any human behavior that’s not conducive to addictive misuse take something like meditation people you agree to do meditation meditation so that a great thing it is but one of the using it to escape from their lives what they’re trying to get to my states of feeling or emoting more or mental states because they can do in life the way it is out there that it can be good than are actually not actually using the m

edication meditation is a practice for life the using it to escape from same with the recognize that was unusual is anything community whatever this so naturally substances alcohol speech can be used in a criminal communal areas often has been obviously be the source of suffering an addiction that tobacco originated could position as abuses that human clock is a teaching plant and is a focus assembly can actually be as you all know the focus of a life-threatening infection is this is nothing was world of can become addicted virtually nothing is is lucky is not the behaviors was internal relationship to the defies hundreds in the government do you see that in your you suffered from your your own addiction to shopping how how did that affect your life while and when I was setting it doesn’t also week on on on on on Shali presented being that and I ignored my family and about my work and and and causing shame for myself you can see how that would affect my was there was are single point that you chose to recognize that war to stop it would single point and that would continue for four years after for years I would recognize it was damaging rest of continue with it which is typical addicts of addicts know that the years of active just of knowledge and stop so for me was a process and the and it has to be February and it’s never overlooking you can hardly are say that okay I’m so pure going on so curative and so balanced that the risk is never anymore because when you have to you though the successfully whatever the election as unless you really fully transform himself wi

th stresses of Eisenman pressures arise or emotional pain arises the still that temptation to willfully addictive escape in a lot of your work you present compassion as an important element that is needed for the treatment of addicts how does society measure that compassionate in the do you think that were getting better at measuring this or worse compassionate sympathy recognizing that people don’t behave self-destructive or negative waste because they’re bad people but because they suffered in the conduit to suffering a very optimal way but by like addiction is is is is a response to suffering so once you recognize that people trying to soothe their pain «can you ostracize and punished him for for being pain from not knowing where the so compassion is just a recognition that underneath it every dysfunctional human behavior and every negative impact of those social behaviors is actually deep human suffering is causing in the first place is there anywhere how do you define the hungry ghost phenomena diagnosis of was for a phrase that in the Buddhist cosmology something that the public the sixth realms of you all trials that we all cycle through so there’s the human wrongs ordinary selves is the animal rummages around the types of hard drives and ours passions you are hundreds you might say then there is the Hallowell which is Terrence fear and rage you are almost scary difficult emotions and local newsrooms lipids of visual models of those in another on the most realms allow members to creatures are depicted as ones with large empty bellies small scrawny

models in others there’s usually necessary than the public negative fill well rested and the predictions rollable trying to fill this and just on the outside and you never And it’s not that somebody’s always in one I’m on the other mean I might go through all the six runs in one day or you might you and the realms where were not space of emptiness overdrive Phillips also the outside usually to escape a Manolo much suffering and so so so the Holy Ghost is a Buddhist symbol for event desperation to fill the emptiness from the outside which addiction manifests what you would you think distinguishes us from other animals mean I don’t I don’t usually see like lions of drafts snorting cocaine and what what makes us different well but you can make animals with a predictable to elaborate drugmaker suffer so that that it in in in environments where they are creature can be there to cells your Nazi suffering illness in addition my suffering but you’ll see addiction but we try to creatures of the capacity to be themselves and the evident to deal with the issues going to their full capacities you see addiction so what what your own personal beliefs of your spiritual beliefs the reality is that people are spiritual creatures my mean by that is that even the me but it’s in our nature to be connected to something larger than articles related society that is basically says your individualistic aggressive Eagles us we are and that the pursuit of happiness which is the pursuit of pleasure well is the highest holders which is a denial we actually your so the society by nature green suffering by three basic at the great suffering so people gloat the spiritual needs goes is part of the nature and it’s an end are in the basically our knees all of those are true nature so so architectures that really love and connection that compassion really to give these of you to receive these and we also would be the connection something larger than we are because we are connected submerging the art and so that the mildly is that the denial of our nature and so spirituality which is against the job is there is that they’ve read more. It could couldn’t a specific religious police for some people but it would be have a (then search for meaning for the people the of to find ourselves or spiritual pursuit or path is is visually; we

RNase to deny that abilities to realize that going up and and and being in a militant atheist inordinately of years something that is a goal policy older about you believe more mature recognizing the spirituality is actually nothing wonders about it is something we are you cofounded compassion for addiction can tell us about that organization is a nonprofit that is getting up the ground that its intention is to know you look passion prohibition the go back they can I think compassion’s compassion than the number four position and suitable rhetorical before that the prevailing view additional right now in the Western world is either it’s a choice and bad you’ll morally flawed choice of people make forest and need to be punished and ostracize always a brain disease based on genetic factors what I’m saying it’s neither choice those are brain disease but actually what it is it’s a response to suffering that demands compassion the treatment with become a success it to you think that there are some addictions that kind of go under the radar or undiagnosed world as many additional society and as I said any behavior that you crave find pleasure are reason they are consequences so addition to power outage the suffered addition to part look at them they can’t give it up know that you possibly will given up a fight hold onto it despite the negative uses those that point that are MAF a negative for themselves and their family lives in the addition to will look at the recent the well Lisa the destruction of the environment and is so ironic your we say to the individual addict popping object is harmful substance abuse of this McEwing rejecting all is harmful substances into the earth into the environment to the oceans that’s ridiculous imagination is more deleterious and is consequences individual persons heroin or cocaine worker summit haven’t organization to love the causes us to kill their environment overture life depends but bases-loaded the Raiders addictions real see the connections will be posted treatment for wealth addiction what he thinks stress plays such a major role in this stress is so not not not an emotional state of being upsets the associate physiological response of the body to legal threats of for phones regulate know or or somehow mistreats you find the power to do that than your body were going to stress mode you have high levels of stress hormones a development cortisol which would help your skateboard fight back stress is a necessary response to short-term threat but in the long term the same substances that in the short term hope you escape it along to you sit syndrome in the stress hormone for y

our real want you escape in a short the long-term vision heart disease strokes anxiety so on at high blood pressure in the short-term cortisol suppressing submission how to gain more sugar so they give more energy for the flight or flight response to long-term success your immune system mission to crash into visit your memory gives you Alzheimer’s is your bones. Osteoporosis ulcers heart disease on anon anon on so we society we live it was stress is people the stresses people’s threat was stress people’s uncertainty lack of information lost control conflict know if you if you understand that is the worst trestles in the people’s physiology stated they been challenged by chronic stress no wonder that you have a population of North America were over 50% of allows us about chronic illness and and elemental’s and the physical limits diabetes but have a vision heart disease cancer regulatory sort of it is these all stressors and that the diseases that the impact of long-term stress as I often traceable back children experience again but again which the medical profession treats is isolated biological entities you don’t see the connection between people stressful lives and the harmful effect on the parties stress is a huge effect on those addition of course I didn’t ask your duty to behavior clause them as you know but if you look at yourself you partygoers me that when we mostly the relapse into addicted behaviors when you’re stressed so so that but it understand illness physical or mental or addiction stress is a huge factor so that happen how do we how do we reduce stress in our lives how do we address the physiological impacts in our every day jobs and more doing well on this this realm addressing spoke toxic culture it’s great absolutely difficult andit is not individual questions Raymond sure cultural full all and racial and gender that the question because my capacity as a Caucasian middle class position to address the stress in

my life is for more privileged than if I was say a poor black single mother in the Alabama under conditions of racism and the duration so sobriety were looking at broad social political questions that will be answered in the social global economic level and and and and limited rest that is through peoples movements that arise in response to unfairness and oppression and suffering so you can guess you can separate us from social movements and social factors on individual level of the have to be aware of stress in other words that it is love my full awareness to be aware of progress restructures us would be least do I have the stress so is I believe that my value depends on impressing other people that spend my whole life trying to get of people to value me and I would welcome as they the stress me world do it because I believe that motivated is a what these others think of me what I

‘m idyllic that I have to understand be aware of what my fundamental beliefs are all I hated I believe that my life depends on what somebody ostensibly where they get that idea from old I’m I know that idea because that’s all I stated relation might transfer trying to impress them all the time do I still to be controlled by believe that I developed as a two-year-old that they some psychological awareness that a sort of internal work that they sell a lot of mindfulness work in the present so that we can be aware of when these thoughts and these arise and so their own controller behavior so he has to do question this a lot of work to be aware stress and the recognizes social and economic sources and also to recognize his sources in the beliefs that I have developed about myself that it continue to harbor unconsciously and which continue to run my life yeah I like that answer do you have any single piece of advice that for someone who may be suffering from addiction that is looking to the show that you can give me some self-serving but what did introduce resolutions that was happening with them so they need to be compassion of the book sells the need to understand that are not bad people that they than not stupid that this was a mista

ke in that part but actually the addiction whatever the form it took or takes is a response to suffering that they may not even have recognized and the best it understand is to be Michael clinician in the role of articles or to look at my own my wedding many talks YouTube talks in addition went to the pedestal “the politician and that the addition to partridges appointment talk is check out the website good compassion for the should I don’t mean to be like myself were purely self-serving reasons is just that there’s you addiction is a response to suffering at the articulated more clearly than anybody else that I know and the fact that I disorders just that reflects the failure were system to understand what it’s all about know the social is information is many many studies that show that spark the government them together in a way that speaks to people sobriety among shy but it’s a pe

ople object of the work and find that it is true for you begin with the compassionate recognition that is not your fault is not a mistake but that actually was a response to suffering that you may not even have recognized so that must in any to say something your hotel which is the there’s the obvious trauma of sexual abuse or abandonment (dying (beating another parent (being jailed or or or rackers divorced that you may have experienced in your a small and the let’s all the stress is always drop the design petrology called developmental trauma which doesn’t to do with tables is happening boat was these not happy might talk about the human need for being understood compassion and love and all that you transmit try to do their best always they were stressed what is there a divorce distressed what if they were distracted what if they were to told by life and they couldn’t get you that courtroom Monday community that acceptance they could you that holy environment that you was a sensitive the length and needed that he also are traumatized but you may not proceed as been dramatized visually see rightly my press lovely yes you Breslin you did you would you needed and that itself is dramatic and that affects the brain metaphysics yourself in a these a lot of pain which is transmitted through addicted behaviors so it takes compassion for the self that’s Q1 one piece of advice it’s have some compassionate curiosity for yourself is that are judging himself be curious always and that like that that was the reason what happened and a lot of come curiosity do gives users compassion a

nd statistical judgment. Why did I do that by was efficient it’s a way to do that but
not an idiot
a good human being why did I like I do all that stuff was the explanation so it’s compassionate curiosity yeah I think that’s a very powerful message center where can people find your work the website is www.format a duck on the PRG be aware that you have gone to lecturers what has no cost usually washes lecturers.
My articles chapters from my book so there so that’s public publicity and well documented but we do appreciate your time think you so much for being here

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