Episode 52-Transcript – Brad Burge


XP welcome backs are so excited to be back at a great child last time okay drug so it’s let’s do it right into what maps is doing a year is only in its first few months but already some some great things seem to be happening for maps your medical marijuana research received a boost in January when the DEA conceded their inspection of the John Hopkins University trial site what what does this mean for the city’s progress are yeah well you not just say is last back +2014 and that’s 2016 now and we’re it just in the middle of our phase 2 MDMA trials in our the 2016 is the big year big shift for us and just like really moving to the next phase of the research and that’s including the marijuana research so we been working on getting this study started for about 14 years going through various levels of five government obstacles there is review processes including one review process there was removed last year there was extra for marijuana research and researchers don’t have to go through that the public health service and then there was the firing of Dr. Seuss Sisley was the original principal investigator on the study just for your listeners who may not remember this is a study and that 76 United states military veterans where were exploring different strains of five medical marijuana were different ratios of THC in CBD to treat symptoms of post dramatic stress disorder a lot of veterans are using marijuana for treatment of their post dramatic stress disorder a lot of people for VA treatments include medications to start working right so we want to actually do the clinical trials the research necessary to actually find out works whether it works it works for ultimately hopefully to make all plant medical marijuana an FDA approved prescription drug so this study we were thrilled last year mascot are very first government grant it was a $2.1 million grant from the state of Colorado Colorado has says you know legalized marijuana for recreational use and that the taxes the income to the state from all the sales of that marijuana had to go somewhere so they created a grant program for medical marijuana research at the taxes from legal recreational marijuana papers medical marijuana research maps was the largest recipient of about $9 million pool of funding that the state of Colorado was getting out to different applicant to do the research $2.1 million funding this marijuana for PTSD studied a very first government grant first government funding abscess ever received already that’s that that’s just a huge family you think that’s that’s actual government funds being used to support nonprofit medical marijuana research the very exciting the trial is now actually into sites expanded it pops a number of subjects 76 objects but is now into sites wanted Johns Hopkins and one in Phoenix Arizona and the DEA has he mentioned that just recently approved the study site and University in Baltimore Johns Hopkins and outward is waiting to finish the construction on the study site that is in Phoenix Arizona where Dr. Sisley is going to be treating subjects nursery expect this will get started this year we are just about to finalize the construction and then will be able to get the final DEA approval Federal DEA approval in order the marijuana from the national Institute on drug abuse which will be supplied marijuana is amazing Mannering you start changing world pain that’s what you’re doing on a daily basis dream it might not feel that way right now we’ve we glossed and we talked as you said was 2014 did you expect so much of a transition it seems like you guys have made a lot of progress that will it out 2016 happens to be our 30th anniversary actually 30 years of working to remove government obstacles and I removed the irrational stigma that’s been around for so long running psychedelics medical marijuana still it’s been planned for a long time my boss Rick Doppler has been added since 1986 and were others that were just moving into this whole new phase where were at least in the case of the MDMA research were doing for PTSD were not to upper were almost done with the original set of trials the small set of trials battle be out ultimately 60s to trials that we will of completed and then I’m just getting ready this year to move on to the much larger phase 3 trials that will put ultimately would in the next six years or so make MDMA illegal treatment what’s the let’s touch on that soon you your your studies into treating PTSD with MDMA assisted therapy of your Israel trials saw the last subject receiving their first treatment in the phase 2 study in your boulder Colorado subjects leading phase 2 entering the 12 months long-term follow-up these what comes next for the two cities have any interesting insight spin kind of cleaned from the data so far out yet you note via the boulder trial that’s our second-largest trial our largest one is on the study participants are still in their long-term follow-up the largest one being in South Carolina primarily in veterans than 24 subjects not much bigger 24 and 23 subjects but still generally small studies the results of the boulder study are still preliminary still being analyzed but they look extremely promising top spoken with investigators her father presented a try researched him and they are very very comparable with the really amazing amazing results we got our first couple of phase 2 studies which starred show that 83% so over three quarters of the people who receive MDMA assisted psychotherapy no longer qualified for PTSD anymore aftertreatment so that’s are published results I can’t talk specifically about the published results because there said the upcoming result the boulder study because the data is still being analyzed and we want to say exactly what the results for honest I cannot but we are seeing extremely positive results we’ve had quite a few study participants the open to speaking about their experience lately we will are we just had a really great fundraising appeal in the last part of last year so distant in December a few months ago and that were able to raise all of the funding that we needed last for that boulder study and in that process several subjects came out and spoke on video about their experience and we think that was really motivating for a bringing a lot of new supporters on board to help get that study completely funded and and and completed will also have one of the study participants who found herself on deeply recovered from PTSD after the MDMA sessions that she received in the study shall be speaking at our upcoming 30th anniversary celebration in Oakland California on April 17 so just the sheer number of people who are willing to come out and and and and share their stories I spoke with the top five different participants just the last few months from that study who are not only feeling recovered from their PTSD but are also feeling controlled to speak publicly about their big big huge step unite against I don’t think I got a chance to email you are mentions to you but after the first episode we did I got an email from someone who had been deployed in Iraq and he he emailed me and he said he said thank you for doing that episode because he he was receiving a lot of kind of social stigma from the idea of using MDMA to treat his PTSD was suffering from some really heavy PTSD and you said he said that he heard the episode and through hearing it it helped him decide that and he should give this a chance so so moving moving on here that’s a straight you truly truly changing people’s lives it’s okay so there’s an aspect of the MDMA assisted therapy that maps is doing in regards to couples I find this pretty interesting there’s a it’s a conjoined kind of thing where one person has the trauma and the person doesn’t can you explain to you absolutely up such as the the the background is that before MDMA was criminalized in 1985 the your performance was found it was fairly widely used in the therapeutic community address the wasn’t super well-known it wasn’t taught medical schools but there was a fairly large community and maybe hundred 80,000s of therapists who are using MDMA to treat people in their practices on the hadn’t been any clinical trials it was all anecdotal and experimental at the time the one of the main reasons of the main ways that MDMA was used was in couples counseling so helping couples talk about their on their that the more difficult aspects of their experience and sometimes MDMA helped people in these case reports come closer together to open up communication in some cases it to help people realize that they were meant to be together and name suffering moderate and help solve the problem but in in in either case the the effects of MDMA seem to help people and process openly especially with others so maps is focused primarily on post dramatic stress disorder and on treatments for PTSD part because MDMA to seems to have such amazing effectiveness when combined with psychotherapy for PTSD this new study that were starting which is can it be with five lead investigator Michael Hoffert is a psychiatrist is been leading many of our other phase 2 studies and then an additional sub investigator named Candace Monson who comes from Ryerson University and in Canada and she’s one of the original developers of cognitive behavioral conjoint therapy which is a form of psychotherapy that’s used for couples and not just romantic couples either been done but important highlighted with the study were not just focus on romantic couples but one person with PTSD and another what we call her concerns significant other so this could be a brother or sister or a friend or family member to somebody who’s very close to this person and whose relationship is person is impacted by the person with PTSD and PTSD does tend to affect more than just the individual also tends to affects the families and the people around them just by its very nature right now so were exploring PTSD this new study which is MDMA assisted psychotherapy for one person with PTSD person who does not have PTSD is not on our main drug development track which is to say the date is not to be submitted to the FDA for the purpose of making MDMA assisted psychotherapy illegal treatment for PTSD it’s it’s a it’s a new exploration of the possible use of MDMA in a way that it could be used once MDMA is approved so discovering more data about the safety and also this this new approach to using MDMA and that’s immediate so important to kind of realize that you guys are starting all of the current the aspects of this becoming especially in regards to mean not just couples but also the family members Xavier Piermont your dad your brother sister are also experiencing PTSD affects everyone’s involved so that such a huge thing I know that time is kind of short here and there’s there’s a there’s a global psychedelic dinner initiative that coming up how does what’s going on their they feel really excited about this it’s maps is that a number of crowdfunding initiatives at the Greek spoke about last time in fact where we asked the public after social media through email to make small or large donations whatever they can afford to contribute in a community way to the development of MDMA and the psychedelics we also do crowdfunding campaigns for cytokine reduction initiative found that we take the festivals and other events are in the world so the crowdfunding been very successful we found a great deal success crowdfunding we want to find a new way for people to both support the research financially since were nonprofit that’s where it all comes from except for that one grant for the marijuana research but for the MDMA research we still need this this private funding so you know masses mission is kind of Teufel what is to complete this research to make the substances legally and safely available the other one is to reduce the stigma to help people in the sense feel more comfortable talking about psychedelics and secular experiences in psychedelic therapy dislike you said just having these open conversations can drop people out of the woodwork and help people feel more comfortable talking about their issues and maybe seeking help in a different way so that part of what we want to do these global psychedelic dinners the idea is for people to host a dinner other in their home or at a restaurant have people over it can be a potluck picnic or at the beach or anything like that and that just talk openly about psychedelics were not encouraging people to use psychedelics is event but certainly to eat delicious food to talk very specifically and openly about psychedelics and we think that’s cannot know how people feel more comfortable and not just workable donating but also feel more comfortable just talking about their experiences and I’m finding new ways to heal that are reliant on the traditional psychiatric approaches you know are encouraging people to do it anytime this April our 30th anniversary again is this year and we have a major event a a banquet in celebration happening in the San Francisco Bay Area to mentioned on April 17 as kind of that that the centerpiece of the global psychedelic dinners but these are happening all over the world we have found over 230 people in more than 26 countries now registered host these dinners and the goal what were really aiming for his were hoping to fund through these dinners and through this banquet through donations and sponsorships send down people sharing their own crowdfunding pages and so on to completely fund our purchase of a kilogram of MDMA for our phase 3 research that the law yeah it’s it’s it’s about 8000 doses at at them or around their and it’ll it’ll be all the MDMA we need for our US phase 3 trials $400,000 may seem like a lot of money for a kilo of MDMA which, it’s street value is probably less than that unfortunately the FDA only only looks at data using what’s called good manufacturing practices certified MDMA or any other drugs that is pharmaceutical grade MDMA so all of the rules and regulations and bureaucratic requirements surrounding the manufacture of this legal pharmaceutical grade MDMA costs a total of $400,000 about the cost of doing FDA approved research and rubbing the global psychedelic dinners can help us reach that goal you have very very interesting man night really really appreciate your time Brad think you so much so case of lasting you so maps is doing you guys the 30th anniversary is in April when you’re doing your own banquet and dinner celebration where and when is that happening and I mean what 40 guys can be up to what can attendees expect to enjoy well on their well sentences the various a great place lots of fun things to do in the area if you’re not already from here so April 17 starting at 5 o’clock we have a banquet where will have a series of speakers is the beautiful banquet is all taking place at the Scottish Rite Ctr. which is an old Masonic Temple on the shores of Lake Merritt in Oakland in the east San Francisco Bay I’m so beautiful old venue with a lot of sort of mysticism and import to it feel it is appropriate for the 30th anniversary of the psychedelic research organization and so we have a series of speakers work Doblin our founder and executive director my boss will be will be there speaking will have researchers Michelman offer one of the researchers I mention will also have to study subjects participant speaking about their experience one woman from the Boulder study who experience sexual assault occurred from PTSD after being in our study and another guy is a US Marine veteran served in Iraq and also recovered from PTSD after serving our trial so so will be having a banquet through the talking and everybody will go upstairs to his amazing is amazing halls amazing celebration hall where will have another address it opens up for general admission at that point the banquet celebrating are two different sets of tickets if you go to the banquet you can definitely come in celebration enough there will have a series of musical and multimedia presentations DJ spooky also known as Paul Miller will be doing a fantastic musical act with that I have multimedia component to it usually does planetarium projections also have android Jones and say droid android has done some amazing projections on the Empire State building on the Vatican on the Sydney Opera House you’ll be doing some of his life projections there and then will conclude with a live performance special performance from Ken Jordan on one of the two founding members of the Crystal method will be playing for 45 minutes a down tempo electronic music set to round out the evening while that sounds like quite lineup man I’d and wish I could attend breezily leaving Brad and you so much again for your time will bring you back in another year and a half or so and see where you guys are just because it seems like for it to moving light speed at mean I very knew it was almost like going we it felt like it would take a lot longer to move through face phase 2 trials you must yeah yeah it’s all it’s all concluding really quickly and by then will be part way into our phase 3 trials in 2017 and am moving full speed ahead towards prescription access been working on people get to the maps website.org also if you learn more about the psychedelic dinners that’s psychedelic dinners.org Brad think you so much for your time I really appreciate your present in the selected it’s been great as always this is the human experience we will see you guys next week

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